File talk:Flag of Sweden.svg

How were the colours decided?

The only official specs regarding colours is "NCS 0580-Y10R" for the yellow and "NCS 4055-R95B" for the blue. I've tried a couple of online methods of finding out what this means in RGB, and they all turn up different things. For the yellow I've seen (255, 194, 0) and (252, 232, 48) as opposed to the (255, 198, 0) used in the current picture. For the blue, I've also seen (76, 69, 202) as opposed to the (0, 90, 173) used now, but I agree that looks rather purple. Looking at Vexilla-mundi.com one gets (252, 209, 22) for yellow and (0, 91, 153) for blue, which I think is what most closely resembles the flag I've been used to throughout my life. Anyone have any thoughts regarding this? —Gabbe 17:06, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Hmm. I've found a page by The National Archives in Sweden claiming that the nuances are PMS 116 C and PMS 301 C for a coated surface, and 109 U and 301 U for an uncoated surface. As the uncoated ones are a bit dark, I would say RGB(249, 205, 48) and RGB(22, 101, 161) are the official colours. Unless I see some arguments not to change I'm considering updating the SVG accordingly. —Gabbe 20:48, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Nice find. To me that'd come out as rgb(0,91,153) or #005b99 and rgb(252,209,22) or #fcd116, which also happens to be the exact colors vexilla-mundi.com is using, and would look like this:

So; National Archives + vexilla-mundi.com + what you're used to — I'd say we've got some winners. Do please go ahead and change the colors to #005b99 and #fcd116 if you like (or I can, so bored :p). ¦ Reisio 23:04, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I’m not yet satisfied. The only national standard that could be converted to sRGB accurately, is the CIE-xyY definition for the NCS colors in SS 19101 which says x = 0.189, y = 0.192, Y = 8.3 for the blue and x = 0.472, y = 0.465, Y = 64.4 for the yellow (or at least google says so, I don’t actually have access to the standard). For the yellow to be in range, both Y values have to be scaled by 1/108.5. I then get (11, 80, 137) or #0b5089 for the blue and (255, 193, -9) (!) for the yellow. Obviously the x-y-coordinates for yellow are slightly out of gamut, so we have to cut here to (255, 193, 0) or #ffc100. Modifying the above, this becomes:

This also looks more like the picture in the national archive: [1]. I leave some time for objections, and then I’ll change it. Greetings --Quilbert 22:22, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I have now found a reliable source for the values used above: the Swedish law SFS 1983:826. However, it refers to SS 19101, which has in the meantime been replaced by SS 19104. I’m currently trying to find out whether that has any implications. --Quilbert 14:04, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

It doesn’t. I had made a request on a user page on svwiki in February, the user in his turn requested at the Swedish department of justice, and now it has made its way into Swedish law (-: SFS 2008:888 is an update to SFS 1983:826, such that the law now takes into account SS 19104. The CIE values, however, were not changed by this. —Quilbert (talk) 06:51, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I started looking into this because Quilbert's version looked *much* too dark on my calibrated monitor. The Pantone color library in Photoshop CS4 maps PMS 301C to #005195 (0,81,149) and PMS 116C to #ffcb00 (255,203,0), which is much closer to Gabbe's version than Quilbert's. Since the official source (SFS 2008:888) seems to be inconsistent with itself, we'll have to use the judgement of our own eyes. Based on my Swedish eyes, Gabbe's Swedish eyes, and a few dozen photos on Google Images, I am therefore reverting to Gabbe's version.--Wiklas (talk) 21:20, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

The colours should be updated to those officially mandated by the Swedish government on its brand identity page: http://sweden.identitytool.com/buildingblocks/secondary-building-blocks-always-use#the-main-colours

I uploaded a new file, File:Flag of Sweden 2.svg, using those colours. VulpesVulpes42 (talk) 18:18, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

I still think the most authoritative source for the colors should be the Swedish law, which clearly states the CIE values, much more so than some government website. If sRGB values can be calculated directly from the law, why would we not use them? —Quilbert (talk) 10:14, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

I agree with all above, but there is not a straight mapping between standard colors such as NCS 0580-Y10R and NCS 4055-R95B to computer RGB since computer RGB is not a color, and only becomes so after applying a certain Gamma correction consulting the manual of respective computer screen. By the way: the appearance of the computer screen colors is different from the appearance of colored textiles in various illumination situations, since the screen has an internal light source, but the flag only reflects light. Rursus (talk) 15:28, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

Category:Flags with crosses -> Category:Nordic Cross flags

I would like to propose to change the categorisation from Category:Flags with crosses to Category:Nordic Cross flags, which is a subcat of the first. Kind regards, --ludger1961 (talk) 05:59, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Done. odder (talk) 21:48, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Category

{{Editprotected}} Please add Category:Blue and yellow flags. --Smooth_O (talk) 12:28, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

 Done --Mormegil (talk) 09:41, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Page fixed to allow editing by anyone. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 16:04, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Then, next time, remove the editprotected tag. --Mormegil (talk) 09:41, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Adjust colour shades

Should the swedish flag be updated to change to official NCS or Pantone shades?

Hi, im trying to input an change in the Wikipedia image of the Flag of Sweden. Following RGB "equivalents" of the NCS specifications (NCS 4055-R95B for blue and NCS 0580-Y10R for yellow) from official government sources/specifications
http://www.notisum.se/rnp/sls/sfs/20080888.pdf
http://www.riksdagen.se/sv/dokument-lagar/dokument/svensk-forfattningssamling/forordning-1983826-med-riktlinjer-for_sfs-1983-826
https://riksarkivet.se/sveriges-flaggas-farger
the RGB should be R:45, G:95, B:161 for blue and R:255, G:202, B:32 according to this conversion.
https://www.w3schools.com/colors/colors_converter.asp?color=ncs(4055-R95B)
https://www.w3schools.com/colors/colors_converter.asp?color=ncs(0580-Y10R)
Pantone values are also given in these government source (see last source link):301 C and 116 C for blue and yellow, respectively.
Which this page https://www.e-paint.co.uk/Lab_values.asp
converts as R:0, G:74, B:136 for Blue and R:255, G:206, B:0 for Yellow.
This are more accurate than the current (too bright!) version (and also looks way more how the flags looks IRL, which I see everyday)

NCS Conversions
Blue: Hex 2D5FA1 (RGB 45, 95, 161)
Yellow: Hex FFCA20 (RGB 255, 202, 32)

Pantone Conversions
Blue: Hex 004A88 (RGB 0, 74, 136)
Yellow: Hex FFCE00 (RGB 255, 206, 0)

I propose that the shades be changed to one of these, preferably the NCS one. The law does state that: "Vid färgbestämningen ska de metoder för bedömning och mätning som anges i Svensk Standard SS 19104 + Bilaga användas." which translates to: "For color determination, the methods for assessment and measurement stated in the Swedish Standard SS 19104 + Appendix shall be used". SS 19104 gives only the NCS values and seems to me to be the authoritative source.
Here are some real life examples of the flag [2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10] --Havsjö (talk) 21:42, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

I would support reconsidering the colour settings, and most likely following the specs from this source. Fry1989 ^eh? 17:51, 5 March 2019 (UTC)¨

@Fry1989: Yea, that source also links to the top source, (which is an site with collection of all Swedish laws) so its the same. I assume you mean the NCS colours (and the RGB conversion values I wrote)? --Havsjö (talk) 21:22, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

To my eye, the Pantone conversions look more correct to real examples of the flag. But I would leave it up to a group decision. Fry1989 ^eh? 18:45, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

• I notice that File:Flag of Sweden 2.svg is linked from this page and uses a darker blue. Does that not conform to either of the specifications above? I’d rather see more choices than fewer, as long as they provide enough information to let a reuser decide which is most appropriate. (I might add that I’m very skeptical or pessimistic regarding conversion of print & textile colours to RGB in general: there are too many variables among display devices to predict how the colours will actually look on any but a carefully & frequently calibrated system. That said, the best we can do is adopt the values provided by such authoritative sources as Pantone.)—Odysseus1479 (talk) 21:10, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

@Odysseus1479: The file called "Swedish Flag 2" has RGB values 0,82,147 for Blue and 254,203,0 for Yellow. Not the same shade of blue as the Pantone specs (although very similar). I agree with you and Fry1989 then that the pantone version should be used and I hope the main file is changed to have those colours. Much more natural and are from an official government source.--Havsjö (talk) 16:55, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

My opinion was requested, so I'll make one thing clear: I think that the best thing would be to use the colour shades from “File:Flag of Sweden 2.svg”, let me tell you why. Different colour systems are intended for different mediums. Pantone is intended for physical prints while RGB is intended for screen display. Sometimes, converting between colour systems is necessary, but if we can use official RGB shades instead of taking a Pantone detour, I see that as preferable. The colour shades used in “File:Flag of Sweden 2.svg” use the official recommendations from here. These colours feel more natural than the Pantone conversion, which feels kinda off. I believe that if a version with Pantone colours is necessary, it should be uploaded as an alternative file. —VulpesVulpes42 (talk) 15:41, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

@VulpesVulpes42: Okay, I would support that. The "Flag2" looks similar to the versions I posted as well and has a good source, so I support it. --Havsjö (talk) 20:54, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

@Fry1989: @Odysseus1479: @VulpesVulpes42: Okay, since this has been going on since early March, can we agree we can change the "normal flag" file to the colours of the "Flag 2" https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Sweden_2.svg , as suggested by others. It has a source too and looks basically exactly identical to the government sources I gave (the first example in my original post) (as well as how it looks IRL). Nobody except us seems to care much about this and there seems to be no "big" disagreement. Do all agree to do the change I described, would this not be enough consensus to get some change happening? --Havsjö (talk) 23:12, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

 Agree I want to thank you for accepting my suggestion. I can take care of updating dependent files. —VulpesVulpes42 (talk) 17:01, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

@VulpesVulpes42: well...? --Havsjö (talk) 17:54, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

@Havsjö: If I could update the file, I would, but I do not seem to have the rights to do so. There is a little box on the file description page that says "This media file has been protected from editing to prevent vandalism. Please discuss changes on the talk page or request unprotection.", and further down, where I would usually be able to click on a link to upload a new version, it is simply written "You cannot overwrite this file.". I am sorry. I do not really know what to do. Maybe we should try to get in touch with users with higher privileges. —VulpesVulpes42 (talk) 18:09, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Requested update to protected image

{{Edit request}} thumbnail|New versionThis image is a bit smaller. I think it should replace this one. – GeMet [talk] 09:06, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

(edit request – GeMet [talk] 14:07, 18 November 2019 (UTC))

@GeMet: Please could you be be more precise - what is the edit that you want us to make? -Green Giant (talk) 08:11, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

@Green Giant: To replace this image (Flag of Sweden.svg) with this one. Because it's a bit smaller (less bytes). Unfortunately no admin ever checks Commons:Requested updates to protected images. Thanks, – GeMet [talk] 08:21, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

@GeMet: Ah, I think I understand what you mean. You were unable to upload a new version here because it is protected, so you uploaded it over there? I shall do this later today when I log in to my main computer. -Green Giant (talk) 08:31, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Yes, correct. Thank you! – GeMet [talk] 08:33, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done but with only the last version. The other two versions are in the deleted history of the file. If you want them I can recover them but I thought it might make more sense to put a file redirect there. -Green Giant (talk) 19:17, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Great. Big thanks! – GeMet [talk] 15:20, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Upload request

{{Edit request}}

I want request upload a new version from File:Flag of Sweden fixed.svg. It was replaced with a new file a while ago, and I modified it to a fixed width and height values again. --Tcfc2349 (talk) 15:30, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

What's the purpose and positive thing about fixed width and hight? – GeMet [talk] 07:22, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Because most flag files have fixed width and length values. So, I think that this file also needs to have fixed width and length values. --Tcfc2349 (talk) 22:09, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Have commons had any general discussion about svg-sizes? I think it would be better if we changed the other flags to minimize the code and ultimately the server load. – GeMet [talk] 15:10, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

However, I think there is a good reason that many files have fixed width and length. Later, administrators will judge the opinions and process them accordingly. I also made modifications to make the file size as small as possible. --Tcfc2349 (talk) 07:51, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

I still don't understand the technical strength with having fixed W and H. I'd be glad if you could explain it for me. What other modifications did you do? The only difference I can see is  height="500" width="800". – GeMet [talk] 16:08, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

That's the fixed width and length I said. I'm sorry I complicated the explanation. --Tcfc2349 (talk) 20:51, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

The width= and height= attributes of the ‎<svg> tag set the default dimensions of the image. They are only really required if there is no viewBox= attribute - when a viewBox= is supplied, which in the case of File:Flag of Sweden.svg is viewBox="0 0 16 10", that attribute will set the default proportions but not the physical dimensions which will depend upon outside factors, for example, attributes of a ‎<img /> element, or browser preferences. So far as the Wikimedia projects are concerned, the sole purpose of width= and height= is to set the values shown in text like "Original file ‎(SVG file, nominally 512 × 320 pixels, file size: 200 bytes)". --Redrose64 (talk; at English Wikipedia) 14:06, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

It also affects the size of the thumbnail shown on the file description page e.g. File:Flag_of_Sweden_fixed.svg. Normally that doesn't matter, but if the SVG contains embedded raster graphics at low resolution e.g. File:Algebra1_prb_giero.svg, File:Kit_shorts_Barcelona1980.svg or File:RileyCFirma.svg is enlarged, the bitmap will appear pixellated. cmɢʟee ⋅τaʟκ 00:57, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

@Cmglee: @Redrose64: @GeMet: @Tcfc2349: Just like to add/conclude to the discussion that I would support any change to the size of the file if it has no drawbacks. Would also like to add the note of taking the opportunity of this modification to also follow the achieved concussions of adjusting the colour shades (mentioned in the note blow) --Havsjö (talk) 09:56, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Stale

I uploaded Havsjö version which I think also fixed size issues. If not please create a new one. --Jarekt (talk) 03:45, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Colour adjustment

{{Edit request}} Change colours to that of https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Sweden_2.svg . Consensus on this was found last summer, as can be seen in the discussion above, but low-rank users cannot perform this change --Havsjö (talk) 19:06, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

At the same time, I was also discussing the file. There are files that I have reduced in size accordingly, and I used them to reduce the capacity of the files you wanted to modify. --Tcfc2349 (talk) 03:58, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

And we would be grateful if you could conclude with the discussion above. --Tcfc2349 (talk) 03:59, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

@Tcfc2349: I dont really know what you want. I have no problems with changes of height, width etc. I just wish to see the the colour shades changes done. --Havsjö (talk) 11:14, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

@Tcfc2349: Your adjusted width/height file can maybe use the adjusted colours of "Flag of Sweden 2.svg"? --Havsjö (talk) 09:49, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

@Havsjö: Yes. However, I am sorry for the late response. --Tcfc2349 (talk) 12:18, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

@Havsjö:  Done --Jarekt (talk) 03:41, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Transfer

{{Editrequest}} Could this be transferred from Category:SVG sovereign state flags, Category:SVG flags of Sweden and Category:National flag of Sweden to Category:SVG national flags of Sweden? —Preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.99.162.3 (talk) 13:03, 9 May 2022 (UTC) (UTC)

•  Done —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 19:10, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

i18n

{{Edit request}} In the {{Tbc}} in the |other_fields parameter, change Blue and Yellow to {{i18n/Blue}} and {{i18n/Yellow}} instead to internationalize. Commons is a global project that should be available in as many languages as possible! — Preceding unsigned comment added by QuickQuokka (talk • contribs) 21:41, 12 July 2023 (UTC) (UTC)

@QuickQuokka:  Not done, as this seems to be done in {{Tbc}} (search for "{{{5"). Please let me know if you're sure it isn't. —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 21:07, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:SVG national flag of Sweden

Add this category, please. Plaga med (talk) 18:37, 12 March 2024 (UTC)