Blackmetalbaz

December 2007

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to make constructive contributions to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Adrian Erlandsson, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Alexfusco⁵ 02:26, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed content from Valley of Decapitated Horses. When removing text, please specify a reason in the edit summary and discuss edits that are likely to be controversial on the article's talk page. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the text has been restored, as you can see from the page history. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. Closedmouth (talk) 06:39, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Metal-archives

Metal archives might not be the best source (a book would be), but it is a source that can be used for a niche genre. Unlike you said, metal-archives is not as open as a wiki, all changes are done through change requests that are checked thoroughly before they are applied. Deleting the sources isn't doing any good for anyone (I even asked about metal archives on the WP metal project and it seems to be an accepted source). Since the sources are in the article it is a more stable and reliable list.

There is no statement on WP implying MA can never be used as source. It is in fact a peer reviewed site with editorial oversight (2 things a questionable source has not, according to WP:VER). No ordinary user can edit genres on MA, only about 20 moderators can (out of 84000+ contributors). The moderator's policy is to be careful with genres, to thoroughly check them and to keep them up-to-date. I can't find any policy or guideline on WP stating these kind of sites are unreliable (Not even WP:V/WP:RS). I don't always agree with their genres, they're not always correct, just like the genres on rockdetector, allmusic or whatever third party site. Kameejl ^(Talk) 19:35, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Response

I was wondering if you could respond to this. Inhumer (talk) 01:02, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Rofl, I forgot the link, Category talk:Grindcore groups. Sorry about that. Inhumer (talk) 02:18, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Do you have any sources for Iskra or Dystopia being Grind?Inhumer (talk) 18:48, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I reread it, it does sound POV. Inhumer (talk) 00:04, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

When it comes to genres, myspace isn't really a reliable source.Inhumer (talk) 03:32, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

You know, I don't think we could find one, though I do have a source for the pv article in general.Inhumer (talk) 01:32, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Here it is Inhumer (talk) 01:33, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I think it should also be redone, anons made a compete mess out of itInhumer (talk) 01:35, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm gonna continue looking for more sources for PV. Inhumer (talk) 17:20, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Interviews with Eric Woods(Member of Man Is The Bastard.) [1] [2] Not much, but something.Inhumer (talk) 21:35, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Re:LLN

I think the label releases are sufficient to establish the group's notability, so I don't feel too bad about removing the tag. However, you should note that I was helping your case in reverting. Chubbles (talk) 18:14, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry about that... I deleted the comment on your talk page as soon as I'd posted it! Case of me not reading thoroughly and being over-tired. Sorry! As it happens I also think the whole LLN thing is notable, but the problem is that as a scene it is almost by definition unsourcable (interesting in and of itself, but clearly a problem). Any apologies once again for the misunderstanding! Blackmetalbaz (talk) 19:53, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I would say it's pretty reasonable that not all of those groups have their own articles; some of them are most likely hopelessly obscure, but if they nevertheless have a connection to the scene, I think it would be destructive to blackball them from the list. It's the same principle one would use for a record label; the label's page should have a comprehensive list of bands that have released material, even if some of those bands do not, or will never, have their own page. That said, it'd probably be worth de-linking the redlinks. Chubbles (talk) 01:44, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I totally agree, but do they in fact exist? Blackmetalbaz (talk) 01:46, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Are there some which appear to be nonexistent? I haven't gone through the list... Chubbles (talk) 01:48, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Cool, I'll do the same tomorrow. I'll also go through and probably weedle out ones that haven't actually released anything. Cheers for the help! Blackmetalbaz (talk) 02:04, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Just running a Google search on the first five or six, a bunch of them have thousands of Ghits and reviews on metal webzines. Some of them only rate about 8 Ghits, but most of the list comes up on this forum post discography: [3] Nothing close to a reliable source, but perhaps worth investigating as a benchmark. I guess anything that's only pulling 8 Ghits can probably be removed. Chubbles (talk) 01:53, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Here's a litle something to help you out :

Welcome!

Hello, Blackmetalbaz, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• Tutorial
• How to edit a page
• How to write a great article
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! 69.210.245.152 (talk) 00:57, 16 January 2008 (UTC)Mooncrest

Re: Les Legions Noires

Well, my rule of thumb is always "if it's notable, then it shouldn't be too hard to find sources for it". Although they may exist, if they are lacking many sources some editors on Wikipedia may not be in agreement about it's notability. I must ask though, why is it, "almost by definition, impossible to get hold of reliable sources", as you stated? ≈ The Haunted Angel 00:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, this sounds rather tricky. To be honest mate, I'm not sure how I'd go about doing this... I presume somewhere there would be a site about them, even if not anything official, but I'm afraid that's all I could suggest - this does indeed sound like something difficult to source. ≈ The Haunted Angel 01:24, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

LLN

Well, let's consider some things here. The article also has entries in French and Dutch; the bands listed appear on at least four different notable labels. This says to me that, at the very least, the subject itself is notable. Which means that I seriously question the utility of an AfD; it would be self-destructive to delete an article that clearly deals with a notable topic. I haven't made any attempts to source the article. There are clearly some rumor-mongering statements that can and should be removed from the page; however, clearing it out entirely is basically tantamount to removing all of the claims that the page has to notability anyway. I'd rather not see it AfD'd - underground metal has enough trouble establishing its legitimacy on this site as it is - but it'd certainly make sense to take a careful razor to the more outlandish statements. Chubbles (talk) 01:14, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, well, there goes that. Chubbles (talk) 01:16, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Daughters and DEP

Sourced where? I'll provide my own sources. Let's do this. 24.90.176.253 (talk) 18:05, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

The sources are already listed on the articles' discussion pages. I'm not disputing that these bands could also be listed as mathcore, and indeed believe that this should be what is present in their infoboxes. I can provide sources myself perfectly well to demonstrate this. Your apparent problem is that you do not believe bands should be listed under multiple categories. This however is not only incorrect but facetious in the extreme. However, should you be able to provide a reliable source stating that these bands cannot be considered grindcore to any degree, then cite them and we can mention this interesting contradiction within the body of the article. Should you be confused as to what constitutes a reliable source for such discussions, a book or commercially published music magazine would be appropriate. If in the mean time you revert any my edit to add these bands to the Grindcore category, it will constitute vandalism, for which you have been warned once already. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 22:25, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I should mention by the way that for now I am assuming good faith and that your misunderstanding is that bands can belong to multiple categories. This is of course untrue. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 22:32, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Immortal caption correction

Hey, thanks for correcting my wrong caption. I don't know what on Earth possessed me to make me see the "new" logo on Pure Holocaust cover. Uzyel (talk) 18:49, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Regarding the "Death 'n' Roll" article

• First: There's a discussion page on that article where we talk (and negotiate) the changes made to it.

• Second: and what about this "unreferenced" template? Are you sure about that? Or did you happen to miss the 38 references on the bottom of the article?

• Third: yes, there are "unverified claims" on this page. And why? I haven't posted the references to back 'em up (lack of time) - that's why. But, beyond that... "original research"? Please point that out to me.

• Fourth: instead of promptly wiping away anything unsourced, why don't sit back and wait? This article is obviously going through heavy revision, and blanking is considered vandalism.

I would ask you to please, refrain making edits of that nature for the time being... And no, this is not an ownership issue - I just want the proper time to finish my edits.

Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:33, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll start my reply by adressing this:

• "...many of the so-called references..."
• "...are in fact blatant original research."
• "...with a misleading reference tag...".
• "...and, cardinal sin, making the statement..."

What's up with that belligerent tone? I've already had my fair share of dealing with frustrated, teenage Wikipedia editors, venting off their inferiority complexes by the way of internet trolling. You're not one of those, are you? Don't be.

I also have to adress this:

• "Finally, you are correct that blanking a page would constitute vandalism. Removing inappropriate content is not."

I'm sorry to say this, but that's not a good argument. You're probably rationalizing your blanking. And - please - drop the whole self-righteous, self-appointed "guardian of Wikipedia" bit. The road to hell is paved with "good" intentions, my friend. For all your talk about sticking to Wikipedia policies, just a quick scan on your user talk page reveals that you've done your share of mistakes and abusive edits - just like the rest of us. I'll ask you to be more careful the next time we talk.

I'll also ask you if our future communication could be conducted exclusively over the Talk:Death 'n' Roll page, regarding the current issue.

Thanks in advance. Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:46, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Slipknot Wikiproject

Hey what's up? I realised that you have editted Slipknot related articles before and I was wondering if you would be interested in joining the Slipknot Wikiproject. The project aims to develop all Slipknot articles to create reliable, high quality articles. If you would to join, simply list yourself i nthe participants list on the project page. REZTER ^TALK ø 11:21, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Heavy metal fashion

What do you think of this article? I think it is incredibly shitty. I put it up for deletion. If you agree (or disagree by some chance) with my reasoning cast your vote, please. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 23:48, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Robin Eaglestone C.O.F joining date

Hi Baz Just clocked your last edit on that page Ive been keeping an eye on that one too! I have here two C.O.F demo's ("Invoking The Unclean" and "Total Fucking Darkness") both with full original inlays dated 1992 and both crediting "Rob" I understand he first joined as a 2nd guitarist during the "invoking the unclean" era before switching to bass for the T.F.D demo which was recorded during the winter of 92 also. That said I will make a small edit to rectify this info. --Ladylust (talk) 03:08, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I think some of the problem is that these early C.O.F tapes are so rare and this incorrect info has been in the public domain with out being challenged for so long now that ,this its self becomes the source for all further verification . You cant even trust what high street magazines or biography books print these days.--Ladylust (talk) 22:32, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

RE: March 2008

Resolved

Um, you just tagged my talk page with a vandalism notice concerning the Matt Heafy page. To the best of my knowledge I have corrected the spelling of his band Capharnaum (you have mistakenly changed it back to Capaharnaum) and removed the clear vandalism relating to Heafy's love of 'gay anal sex'. You appear to have simply restored this vandalism. So, sorry: Please stop. If you continue to vandalize Wikipedia, as you did to Matt Heafy, you will be blocked from editing. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 15:33, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Adding "ilike eggs" doesn't seem very constructive to me.... StaticGull  Talk  15:38, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

If you had bothered to check the edit history before slapping me down: [4]. You'll notice I was in the process if reverting a series of minor vandalisms. You however are simply being unhelpful. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 15:44, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Next time try to add an edit summary. StaticGull  Talk  16:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Greif page

Greetings. I just wanted to mention that the whole Greif page was struck by an admin who is in the midst of rebuilding it with citations. This was after a COI action that has been working itself out. If I could ask you to hold off on a request for deletion until all of the relevant information, if reliable and sourced, is inserted, it would be appreciated. If after a short time this isn't the case, then go ahead...Thanks, A Sniper (talk) 21:46, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

No worries mate. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 21:50, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Cheers. I've followed some of your edits at death metal and chuck schuldiner, by the way, and they're spot on. Best, A Sniper (talk) 21:55, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Metalcore#Attention_to_all:_New_Wave_of_American_Heavy_Metal

Hey, what's your opinon on this matter? Please share at the link. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 22:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Dani Filth

Hi;

Regarding this edit, I disagree that a category of one is necessarily pointless. For example, including him in this category brings him into the overall classification scheme of Category:English people by religion, not to mention Category:British people by religion. I also doubt that he is the only notable English Luciferian in history, so the category is now established and can be used in the future. (One article always has to be the first one added to a category.)

In any case, this category clearly applies to Dani Filth, so if you still feel the category is pointless, the answer would not be to delete the category from the article but rather to propose a WP:CFD for the category itself. Thanks! Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 08:06, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Metal#Genre delimiters

You're invited to the above. --Bardin (talk) 06:37, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Doubts about Restructuring the Sepultura Article

As you know, I was planning to restructure Sepultura's biography by telling their history through the group's albums. My model was the Nine Inch Nails article.

I've recently revisited the NIN page and found out that they traded the album images for group and music video shots. That solution avoids the "fair use rationale" image problem and keeps the proposed biography structure intact. I could do the same with the Sepultura page; I have their official biography, which has loads of exclusive photos that I could scan.

My question is: how do I upload these images within Wikipedia's media copyright protocols? Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:03, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I think that sounds like an excellent idea. I need to pop out for a bit but I'll look into that later this afternoon! Blackmetalbaz (talk) 12:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

List of death metal bands

Hey, you said in an edit summary that "leave your POV out of it; sources are in abundance" and removed "on occasion" next to In Flames. I just wanted to tell you that wasn't me! I made two edits at nearly the same time and I guess I got them confused because my first edit was meant to remove the "on occasio" next to In Flames, hence my edit summary, "unneccesary;this is a list of bands who played dm ANY time in career." But with the second edit I removed a metalcore band and I think since I tried to do the edits at the same time, I accidentally added the "on occasion" back in. My bad. I'd just hate for you to think I'm that kind of editor that puts irrelevant crap like that in to an article. I'm better than that, heh. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 21:26, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Nah, don't worry about it. I do that sort of thing by accident all the time as well. Course I know you're better than that ;-) Blackmetalbaz (talk) 15:59, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 22:58, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Question

I wanted to ask you a question, since you're a fan of heavy metal. Me and another user have been having some problems on the Shadows Fall page. I'm not a fan of their music but I noticed that someone had put thrash metal as one of their genres and I immediately changed it to metalcore, as I believe that is the style of music they play. Now the other editor didn't agree with this and we had a little edit war. Well now I want to gather some consensus on it so we can resolve the issue. If you go here you may vote on what genre(s) you think Shadows Fall has played. Thanks. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 19:52, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, if you need any help with anything feel free to let me know. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 19:52, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Apocalyptic Raids

Greetings... I've made some mild improvements on the Apocalyptic Raids 1990 A.D. article. It still hasn't a picture, but some sort of quality accessment about it could be interesting. Would you be willing to that? Musicaindustrial (talk) 12:56, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, check out the original Apocalyptic Raids article. Musicaindustrial (talk) 13:12, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Re: Citations

You asked about a month ago how to "go about condensing all the references from a single source to a single line in the ref list". I've recently discovered how.

An example: the liner notes of the self-titled compilation from Entombed:

<ref>{{cite album-notes|title= Entombed|albumlink= Entombed (album)|bandname= [[Entombed (band)|Entombed]]|year= 1996|notestitle=|url=|first=Dan|last=Tobin|pages=p. 4|format=CD booklet|publisher= [[Earache Records]]|location= [[New York City|New York]], [[NY]]}}</ref>

Now, the multiple footnote version would be something like that:

<ref name= anynameyouwant>{{cite album-notes|title= Entombed|albumlink= Entombed (album)|bandname= [[Entombed (band)|Entombed]]|year= 1996|notestitle=|url=|first=Dan|last=Tobin|pages=p. 4|format=CD booklet|publisher= [[Earache Records]]|location= [[New York City|New York]], [[NY]]}}</ref>

Note how the initial "<ref>" name changes?

Capicce? Musicaindustrial (talk) 11:50, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh crap. Genre delimiters!

Hey, what's up? We got problems! During my absence I see that line breaks have seemingly become more popular for metal bands (at least). That's fine but look at the Template:Infobox Musical artist. Someone recently changed it while I was gone. It now has both infoboxes with comma breaks! That doesn't even make sense, to have two infoboxes that are the same. One is supposed to have comma breaks and the other line breaks. This means trouble. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 16:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

NWOAHM

I was wondering what you thought of something. The New Wave of American Heavy Metal. Do you believe it exists or not? I personally, do not. I think it's the same thing as metalcore which is where it used to redirect. User:Lykantrop sees otherwise and created the article which I am now contemplating deleting. I have made many of my arguements here on the "NWOAHM" talk page and made even more on the talk page of metalcore in the section about this "NWOAHM." I think it does not exist for many reasons and per WP:NEO and pure logic it should be deleted. Tell me what you think. If you need to here some of my arguments for why it doesn't exist feel free to ask and I'll deliver a pile of 'em. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 17:00, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Sepultura's "Arise"

The Arise (album) article is now listed as a good article. Thought you should know. Musicaindustrial (talk) 11:24, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

That's awesome mate. Well done! Blackmetalbaz (talk) 11:29, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Possible AfD

Your comment here was spot on. I almost went to WP:DRV after the first AfD, but I figured I'd give it some time for cites to non-trivial coverage by reliable sources to show up. Obviously, none did, and it's been over six months. — Satori Son 21:32, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Re: Grindcore

Greetings, mate! I spent about six months tracking that Spin mag on Ebay... I was one happy bastard when I found it! And yes I can scan it, no problem.

There is only a slight setback: its format is close to the A3 paper size instead of your regular A4, so it may take a little longer to send it to you (I would scan it in parts and then reassemble the article in a .pdf file). But if you're in a rush, I can send a back & white version of it (I had the article xeroxed for my music file in A4 format). Tell me what you prefer and I'll be glad to send it.

Cheers, Zé Felipe a.k.a. Musicaindustrial (talk) 20:09, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

No rush, buddy. Whatever is easiest for you! Cheers for getting back to me. Baz. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 01:46, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok, here's the link: [5]. Musicaindustrial (talk) 18:44, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! Blackmetalbaz (talk) 18:50, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Arise's rating in Wikipedia's importance

Hey, do you know someone who can rate Arise on the two importance scales? There are two ratings currently missing - one of the WikiProject Albums and the other one is the WikiProject Metal. Thanks!

Musicaindustrial (talk) 14:41, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Ps: I'm going to scan the Spin article this afternoon...

Is this what you're looking for? WikiProject Metal assessment page It's not something I've looked into before... Blackmetalbaz (talk) 14:52, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I've been to this page... But there's another one where you can insert the article on a type of assessment list, and the people of that specific project take a look at it and rate this article's importance. Arise (album) has been rated already for the WikiProject Brazil, for example. Musicaindustrial (talk) 18:50, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Carcariass page

Hi,

You're the one that added a "notability warning" on top of newly added Carcariass page. Could you please explain what in this page does not meet your expectations regarding this point ? The band has already his page on French wiki here: [6]. They are pionneers of genre technical death metal in France and have their 3d album released on Adipocere Records with an international distribution. They are seen as a cult band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cglaume (talk • contribs) 11:49, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

At present the page doesn't demonstrate notability and fails WP:BAND. They'd need at least two albums on an important indie label... they have one on Adipocere. They might pass if you can find reliable sources testifying that they've been genuinely influential; I've personally never come across a reference suggesting that Carcariass are pioneers of technical death metal, but they may be out there. Incidentally, the French article looks to be in as bad shape as the English one. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 12:18, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

RE:Unblack

Unblack metal and black metal are two different things. The prefix UN means the opposite. That alone should put it in a different category. Anyway, unblack metal bands have their own list. Frost Like Ashes was the only unblack band on the black metal list until I removed it. Undeath (talk) 20:22, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

No, and no. The addition of "un" doesn't automatically make it a new genre, in the same way that calling your band's style "murder metal" or "heavy funk" makes those separate styles. And for the record, I suggest you look at the pages for Antestor and Horde. At present there is no consistency. I suggest we go with sources such as Sharpe-Young and acknowledge unblack metal to be a subset of black metal, in the absence of any reliable sources that suggest they are in fact as separate as you suggest. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 21:42, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

RE:Condemned

Hello Baz. I see you have recently added a tag to the Condemned_(band) article regarding concerns of the general notability of the article. Please note that this topic has been previously debated (on July 8th 2007) and the conclusion was "keep/no consensus". I refer you directly to this discussion here:

[7]

As this has been previously debated and concluded I shall remove the tag. Thanks. Mojowibble (talk) 14:20, 11 July 2008 (UTC)