View source for User talk:JorisvS/Archive5

== Saturated model ==

I put a note at [[WT:WPM]] asking if anyone knows anything about the concept of saturated models that you were looking for, and would be interested in writing it up. --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 00:04, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

== Restructuring of phonological charts ==

Greetings once again, JorisvS! I have noticed that you have been restructuring some of the phonological charts I have been creating. I was just wondering why you are restructuring them in that way, why that order in the manner of articulation? Personally, I followed the layout put forth in [http://www.langsci.ucl.ac.uk/ipa/IPA_chart_(C)2005.pdf the International Phonetic Alphabet (2005)] as published by [[International Phonetic Association|the International Phonetic Association]], with slight changes, but if your order is based on something else, I would love to see it. Pure interest. -- [[User:Llonydd|Llonydd]] ([[User talk:Llonydd|talk]]) 18:16, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
:First, I'd like to mention that when the restructuring is complete, it will nearly have the layout given in that chart, much more than it has now or than it had. The reason I put the nasals above the plosives is that the plosives-affricates-fricatives make such a fitting order and the nasals are, like plosives, stops (also, it's good to notice that the affricates don't appear in the IPA chart at all). The tables on the [[Archi language]] and [[Avar language]] pages give examples of the endresult. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:28, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
:Well, not really. It seems both the old and to-be versions of the table follow the IPA chart just as much (or just as little, as the chart is very basic). The endresult will, however, be more in line with the typical consonant table I've come across here at Wikipedia, thus making it a little easier to interpret for people used to reading those tables. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 23:04, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
::Thank you for your answer. But well, I really think there should be agreed upon one single standard here on Wikipedia. There are so many different orders, and some of the phonological charts also use very old terminology. -- [[User:Llonydd|Llonydd]] ([[User talk:Llonydd|talk]]) 05:56, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
:::Yes, quite a number of chart layouts can be found here. And that's why, at least every here and there, I've been bringing them in line with this 'typical' outline I showed you. And certainly, those old terminologies should go, they're rather bothersome/confusing. You're welcome to help! --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:53, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
::::In the past, I've also gone through Wikipedia articles to bring them in line with some standard or other.  In the process, I've met with occasional resistance in such a way that I don't believe we can have one rigidly imposed standard.  For example, I typically prefer nasals to be above plosives, though it may be more important to indicate their patterning with other sonorants.  At [[Swedish phonology]], the chart has approximants between plosives and fricatives presumably because it then allows a quick visual representation of voiced plosive lenition.  — [[User:Aeusoes1|Æµ§œš¹]] <span title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">[[User talk:aeusoes1|<small><sub>[aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]</sub></small>]]</span> 06:54, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
:::::Yes, in such cases this indeed seems better, as then such phenomena can then be indicated easily. We can't be rigid when pragmatics point to a somewhat different ordering. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 12:29, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

== Administrative evil ==

If it's a term that's basically been coined and defined by a single book, then it's likely a [[WP:NEO|neologism]], which isn't an appropriate subject for a Wikipedia article.  You would really need to provide sources showing that this term is in wider use beyond just the one book.  [[User:NawlinWiki|NawlinWiki]] ([[User talk:NawlinWiki|talk]]) 19:08, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

:See [[WP:RS]] and [[WP:N]]. [[User:NawlinWiki|NawlinWiki]] ([[User talk:NawlinWiki|talk]]) 19:12, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
:: Mhm, well, it sounds like "However, audio, video, and multimedia materials that have been recorded then broadcast, distributed, or archived by a ''reputable third-party'' may also meet the necessary criteria to be considered reliable source" [italics mine] is the case: both Harvard and Zimbardo are quite reputable, I'd say [http://isites.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k13943&pageid=icb.page205767 ] (that's actually the way I got learned of the concept).

Though, admittedly, maybe I didn't do my homework quite at the right time, but a little googling turned up 21.500 hits, including the following (though I don't have time for a more thorough search right now), including a number by the same authors, but published in various locations that should be reputable.
*[http://www.ipa.udel.edu/3tad/papers/workshop6/Adams&Balfour.pdf Leadership, Administrative Evil and the Ethics of Incompetence: Lessons from Katrina and Iraq], [http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/5/3/5/1/p153512_index.html Reflections on the Difficulties of Cultural, Organizational and Individual Reparation], [http://www6.cityu.edu.hk/sa/pdf/seminar_21Jan10.pdf The Problem of Administrative Evil in the Universal Culture of Technical Rationality]
*[http://arp.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/31/3/296 The Etiology of Administrative Evil]
*[http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1307673 PERCEPTIONS OF CORRUPTION AS DISTRUST? CAUSE AND EFFECT IN ATTITUDES TOWARDS GOVERNMENT]
*[http://arp.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/36/4/419 Watching the Borders of Administrative Evil]
So, a quick and scanty search points to an already much broader use of the term. So it might be best to give it at least the benefit of the doubt. I'll look more closely at it later.--[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:51, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

: Sorry if I'm jumping in the middle here, but I saw the discussion and thought I'd add my 2¢ worth.  A quick review of the links provided shows that the term "administrative evil" has been coined and promulgated by Adams and Balfour, the authors of the book cited in the article. Four of the six articles above relate directly to Adams in various publications and seminars. The other two links refer to reviews (and dismissals) of Adams' and Balfour's thesis.  I'm not sure this qualifies as giving the neologism "widespread use". [[User:WikiDan61|<span style="color:green;">WikiDan61</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:WikiDan61|ChatMe!]]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/WikiDan61|ReadMe!!]]</sub> 17:41, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
:: Well, as I said, there's also more to look at on Google (which I still have to do). But it is an interesting question what "widespread use" exactly means, when exactly is it that sufficient people have caught up the term? (Because in this case other authors have caught up the term, but (probably) still in reaction to the original authors.)
:: Also, I found the {{tl|notability}} tag. Couldn't this be a better tag, at least for the time being, per the text on [[WP:N]]? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:25, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
(In general) It would have been nice if we could've had a decent discussion about eachother's arguments to at least come to an understanding thereof. Now it was simply "look here, then it's self-evident", even though it doesn't make it self-evident. Also, to bluntly ignore requests for a more proper explanation of one's arguments is simply rude, no matter one's edit count. I hope next time there can be decent discussion. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:06, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

== [[Laki language]] ==

Thank you for cleaning this article, but Laki is not a language. According to Ethnologue and Britannica it is a subdialect of [[Kurdish language]]. --[[User:Calak1988|Calak1988]] ([[User talk:Calak1988|talk]]) 18:56, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
:Actually, the situation is a little more complex than that. First of all, yes, Britannica indeed states it to be a subdialect of Kurdish, however, without it telling about the Kurdish dialect it is supposed to be a subdialect of; without, in fact, telling much about Kurdish at all, so we can't learn much more than that it does say that.
:When we look at Ethnologue we can learn a bit more, though. It does not classify Laki as a dialect (let alone a subdialect) of Kurdish, merely as Kurdish. The difference is at first subtle: as Ethnologue does not explicitly state it to be a language or a dialect within Kurdish it could be either, but when we look at the other members of Kurdish that Ethnologue gives, we see those (Northern, Central, and Southern) classified as members of the macrolanguage Kurdish. Ethnologue only classifies languages as members of a macrolanguage when its members are typically considered (e.g. politically or socially) dialects of a unified language that, in fact, lack sufficient mutual intelligibility, and thus, scientifically, should be considered separate languages. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 23:40, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
:On the [[Kurdish language]] page the following can be read:<br>
:"Since 1932 most Kurds have used the Roman script to write Kurmanji.... Sorani is normally written in an adapted form of the Arabic script.... Reasons for describing Kurmanji and Sorani as 'dialects' of one language are ''their common origin'' and the fact that this usage reflects the sense of ethnic identity and unity among the Kurds. From a linguistic or at least a grammatical point of view, however, Kurmanji and Sorani '''differ as much from each other as [[English language|English]] and [[German language|German]]''', and it would seem appropriate to refer to them as languages. For example, Sorani has neither gender nor case-endings, whereas Kurmanji has both.... Differences in vocabulary and pronunciation are not as great as between German and English, but they are still considerable." (italics, wikilinks, and bold type mine).
:I must make one comment, though: Using a common origin as a reason for considering varieties dialects is bullshit, for then [[English language|English]], [[Russian language|Russian]], [[Greek language|Greek]], [[Persian language|Persian]], [[Hindi language|Hindi]], and of course [[Kurdish language|Kurdish]] itself should all be considered dialects of the same Indo-European language, which is, of course, nonsense. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:38, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
::Thank you for your comment, dear. Good luck! --[[User:Calak1988|Calak1988]] ([[User talk:Calak1988|talk]]) 13:58, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
:::Not a problem, happy to help clarify things. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:22, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

== Changing redirects ==

Hello JorisvS, thanks for your contributions. By the way, regarding edits like [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Uyghur_language&curid=341860&diff=352009938&oldid=352008517 this], I should point out that there is [[WP:Do not "fix" links to redirects that are not broken|usually no need to change links from redirects to direct links]]. Thanks, <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<font color="#8B0000">ʨ</font>anaɢ]]</b>&nbsp;([[User talk:Rjanag|talk]]) 23:20, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|AfD]] nomination of [[Swadesh list of Tsezic languages]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|left|48px|]]An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for [[Wikipedia:Deletion process|deletion]]. The nominated article is [[Swadesh list of Tsezic languages]]. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also [[Wikipedia:Notability]] and "[[WP:NOT|What Wikipedia is not]]").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Swadesh list of Tsezic languages]]. Please be sure to [[WP:SIG|sign your comments]] with four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>).

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'''Please note:''' This is an automatic notification by a [[WP:BOT|bot]]. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --[[User:Erwin85Bot|Erwin85Bot]] ([[User talk:Erwin85Bot|talk]]) 01:04, 15 April 2010 (UTC)


== [[Standard Tibetan|Tibetan language]] ==

You reverted my deletion of insignificant link from [[Standard Tibetan|Tibetan language]] article with an unfriendly comment. Please don't behave like that. It's not an issue of liking or not at all. If we add a link to every country where Tibetan is spoken, then we'll have to add India too. [[User:Gantuya eng|Gantuya eng]] ([[User talk:Gantuya eng|talk]]) 08:41, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
:Please don't take such offense, that wasn't intended. Your first edit summary was rather opaque, and could've meant any number of things; for quite a number of people it may well be an issue of liking. If you have good reasons for removing it, no problem. But that is the question: is it really insignificant? Okay, it stands out, doesn't necessarily have to be bad; it wouldn't really stand out in the current version, though. I don't think clear inclusion criteria were used; adding also [[languages of Nepal]] and [[languages of India|India]] could be argued. Do you want to discuss it? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:17, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

== Serbo-Croatian ==

Hi Joris, 

You might be interested to keep an eye on [[South Slavic languages]] as well. Same issue with deleting SC going on there. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 17:44, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
:Done. Thanks for pointing out. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:02, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

== Substing Welcome Templates ==

Just a quick note, can you make sure you subst welcome templates when you add them to a users talk page? Thanks =] '''[[User:Addshore|<span style="color:black;">·Add§hore·</span>]]''' [[User_talk:Addshore|<sup style="color:black;">T<small>alk</small> T<small>o</small> M<small>e</small>!</sup>]] 18:58, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
:I wasn't aware of its "special way". No problem next time. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:49, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
==Hi, would you be so kind as to give us support!==
{{Boxboxtop}}
{{Wikimedia CAT}}
{{Boxboxbottom}}
Hello, I hope you are doing fine and I sincerely apologize for this intrusion. I have just read your profile and you seem a very learned person and interested in (small) languages and cultures so maybe I am not bothering you and you will help us... I'm a member of an association "Amical de la Viquipèdia" which is trying to get some recognition as a Catalan Chapter but this has not been approved up to this moment because it does not belong to one state. We would appreciate your support, visible if you stick this on your first page: [[Template:Wikimedia CAT|Wikimedia CAT]]. Thanks again, wishing you a great summer, take care! [[User:Capsot|Capsot]] ([[User talk:Capsot|talk]]) 10:17, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
:I don't quite get the (non-)existence of some chapters, but especially don't get this "because it does not belong to one state" thing, so:<br>
:--[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:45, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
{{-}}
:: Well, thanks a lot, if you ever need something from me about Occitan, Catalan or else, just let me know I'll be glad to help the best I can, best regards! Claudi Balaguer/[[User:Capsot|Capsot]] ([[User talk:Capsot|talk]]) 07:20, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

== You are now a Reviewer ==

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== Croatian grammar ==

Hi,

Just a heads-up for [[Croatian grammar]]. Several-month-long discussion on merging this with [[Serbian grammar]] and [[Serbian and Croatian grammar]]/[[Serbo-Croatian grammar]] (the latter probably best because Bosnian and Montenegrin redirect there too), with notices given at the languages wikiproject. However, [[Croatian grammar]] keeps getting reverted into a content fork, with the argument that it isn't a fork if you give it a different name. I made a stub of what I thought it would be that wouldn't be a fork, but that gets reverted too. I don't really care, though, if it's s.t. along those lines (itself really just a sop and probably mergeable into Croatian language) or a rd. as people had originally agreed. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 20:19, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
:All right, but, ehm, what do you like me to do? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:07, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
::Whatever you think is appropriate. IMO, the more reasonable voices the better. I've gone back to making it a redirect, as my attempts at creating a non-forked article have been rejected, but there may be other decent approaches. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 20:55, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

== Breton language ==

Hi Joris,

Can you translate a short phrase into English for me, please? It [http://www.stamp2.com/articles/cinderella/cinderella18.asp says] ''''Breiz da Virviken Bretagne''''. I am going to use it in an article about Breton philately. Thank you, --[[User:Michael Romanov|Michael Romanov]] ([[User talk:Michael Romanov|talk]]) 00:48, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
:How come you ask me? I don't speak Breton, nor have I implied such anywhere. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:58, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
:I believe ''Breiz da Virviken'' is "Brittany for Ever". The root is ''birviken'' (or just ''biken''); the ''b'' &rarr; ''v'' after ''da'' "to". ''Bretagne'' is just French. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 23:52, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
::I couldn't find ''birviken'' at Wiktionary; I'm wondering though, Wiktionary says that ''biken'' means "never". --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:04, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:::Yeah, literally "until never" = forever, like French ''à jamais''. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 11:23, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
::::Right...--[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:25, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:::::(I think that's just due to English having contracted ''ne'' (not) ''ever'' into ''never'', whereas that hasn't happened in French, and I suspect in Breton, so that ''biken / jamais'' "ever" is colloquially used without the "not" to mean "never", and dictionaries commonly translate it that way. Doesn't correspond to English too well either way.) — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 02:14, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

== Ventureño article ==

Thanks very much for helping clean up the [[Ventureño language]] article. May I ask that you please remake separate columns for palatal and post-alveolar places of articulation? Every Chumashist (including myself) treats the places of articulation as non-interchangeable. I've been studying the language over 5 years now at a major research university, and I agree with the other Chumashists: different columns.

I'll apologize in advance if this seems overly-detailed, but it is important to accurately represent the language. And I do appreciate all the help in cleaning things up and making the article look just spectacular. I would like to include orthographic symbols next to the IPA characters, and would very much welcome help with that if you would like to assist further on the article. [[User:Alaquwel|Alaquwel]] ([[User talk:Alaquwel|talk]]) 07:20, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
:Question: why are they so distinct when there is no contrast between sounds of these two different articulatory places? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:04, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
::First, because the difference between a palatal fricative and a post-alveolar one is audibly different. Take for example English: while we have no phonemic palatal fricative no linguist (or very few) will argue that a palatal fricative and the post-alveolar are interchangeable in the language.  Second, because the velar fricative can have realizations that range from the palatal to the uvular in Ventureño. If there were a palatal realization of a fricative in Ventureño, it would be an allophone of the velar fricative, not the post-alveolar. Along those lines, if the reasoning between combining post-alveolar and palatal places or articulation is one of economy, then I'm not sure how one could tell whether to combine those two places or articulation, or the palatal and velar places of articulation. There are other reasons to separate the two places of articulation, such as considering the interplay between alveolar and post-alveolar positions of articulation in sibilant harmony, but these reasons are more complex. Finally, I think it's also worth considering that Drs. Kathryn Klar, Suzanne Wash, Tsuyoshi Ono, Richard Applegate, Kenneth Whistler, and Marianne Mithun all treat the post-alveolar and palatal places of articulation as non-interchangable. I hope you can see that much thought from multiple, very qualified linguists has gone into why the palatal position should stand on its own. [[User:Alaquwel|Alaquwel]] ([[User talk:Alaquwel|talk]]) 02:55, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
:::That there is a palatal allophone of the velar fricative is a good point, and should be properly noted in the article; as for invoking authority: that is not an argument, not even a weak one, and merely detracts from the good points. I believe a phonetic postalveolar approximant {{IPA|[ʒ˕]}} will often (in many languages) be interpreted as phonemic /j/, something that definitely cannot be said for the fricatives. I don't know about this in the Ventureño case, though.
:::Please, tell me more about these more complex reasons. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:00, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi JorisvS,<br>
I think you're confusing a specific view of language, one that views parsimony as an end in itself, with language documentation. These places of articulation are distinct in the world's languages; there is no disputing this. Whether or not SOME linguistic frameworks choose to ignore typology and focus on the most elegant reduction of a given language's sounds to the fewest number of phonemic contrasts, it is still true that this language has a palatal approximant that is (was) produced at the palatal place of articulation. The postalveolar sounds, on the other hand, were not so produced. If you collapse them, you are injecting original research (in this case erroneous research) into an article that is otherwise based on the accepted work of real field linguists. 
[[User:Deseretian|Deseretian]] ([[User talk:Deseretian|talk]]) 18:09, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
:I'm afraid I'm not confusing anything. Parsimony, [[Occam's razor]], is central to science. That is not equal to saying typological concerns are irrelevant, quite on the contrary. I've seen Alaquwel give good arguments for a split of the two columns. What I don't understand is why you (both) don't add this information to the article itself instead of complaining (I expect that you have sources for these).
:Yes, within the languages of the world these two articulations are distinct. English itself makes a distinction for some, with [ç] for /hj/. That the distinction is relevant for some languages doesn't mean, however, that we must make this distinction for ''all''. Also, I have nowhere denied the existence of a palatal approximant /j/, merely changed the presentation.
:Furthermore, concise presentation is not, in and by itself, [[WP:OR|OR]]. If some author very lengthily explains something there is no need for us to do the same here, we merely shouldn't draw conclusions or make inferences the author(s) do(es)n't (which I haven't). --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 12:16, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Sorry JorisvS, but I (or the expert contributor) need not defend what is known: Language X (in this case Ventureno) has consonants at Y places of articulation. For you to go beyond that simple fact without expert reference does constitute OR. And a concise presentation is not the same as confusing (or collapsing, merging, etc.) distinct things, in this case places of articulation, in an effort to further a view of language which you hold. Your statement that 'parsimony is central to science' is largely meaningless, but it reveals that you are injecting your interpretation of linguistics into an article written by an actual expert in the language. There is no consensus among linguists regarding the role of reductionism in the representation of language. And, it should be noted, the current work on Ventureno takes a specific methodological stand regarding the most appropriate representation of the language, one that includes overt marking of the voiceless lateral despite there being reasons to collapse it, as a phoneme, with the voiced lateral. Also, what has the user (of Wikipedia) gained through your confusion of different places of articulation? The table takes up the same space, and the reader must view the same number of symbols in either case. The only difference that I can see between your incorrectly merged table and that of the Ventureno expert is that yours incorrectly teaches a Wikipedia user that the voiceless postalveolar sibilant fricative of Ventureno is palatal, which is not true phonetically or phonologically. Please stop injecting your biases into language articles for which you are not prepared (by education or otherwise) to add anything meaningful.  <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Deseretian|Deseretian]] ([[User talk:Deseretian|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Deseretian|contribs]]) 22:17, 24 September 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:"Please stop injecting"? Seriously? As if I have even made more than this one edit like the one you dispute. And apparently you know something about my motives that I don't...that I was (am?) trying to further my own views on language. 
:You keep telling me that I am disputing that Ventureño's /ʃ/ is post-alveolar and that its /j/ is palatal, again something I am quite unaware of. Whether you find the presentation confusing (yes, among other things) is a whole other matter.
:"'Parsimony is central to science' is largely meaningless". Would you care to elaborate on your thoughts behind this? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 23:11, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

== Admiralty Islands languages ==

A request for move has been initiated at [[Admiralty Island languages]].  --[[User:Taivo|Taivo]] ([[User talk:Taivo|talk]]) 13:11, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

== Notice of Arbitration Decision ==

[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|25px]] The [[WP:Arbitration Committee|Arbitration Committee]] has permitted [[WP:Administrators|administrators]] to impose, at their own discretion, [[Wikipedia:General sanctions|sanctions]] on any editor working on pages broadly related to the [[Balkans]] if the editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the [[Wikipedia:Five pillars|purpose of Wikipedia]], any expected [[Wikipedia:Etiquette|standards of behavior]], or any [[Wikipedia:List of policies|normal editorial process]]. If you engage in further inappropriate behavior in this area, you may be placed under sanctions including blocks, a revert limitation or an article ban. The committee's full decision can be read at [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Macedonia#Final decision]]. <!-- Template:uw-sanctions - {{{topic|{{{t}}}}}} --> [[User:Courcelles|Courcelles]] 23:00, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

:That may be a formality (it's an automated text), as I don't recall anything inappropriate. 
:Just my two bits for anyone reading, Jorisv has been a breath of sanity in some rather contentious debates. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 01:28, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
::I hate that the template says "Further inappropriate behaviour", as sometimes these notices are left without actually accusing anyone of wrongdoing. [[User:Courcelles|Courcelles]] 01:30, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

==[[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] nomination of [[:Chamalal people]]==
[[Image:Ambox warning_pn.svg|48px|left]] A tag has been placed on [[:Chamalal people]] requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under [[WP:CSD#A1|section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion]], because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see [[Wikipedia:Stub#Essential information about stubs|Wikipedia:Stub]] for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on [[Wikipedia:Notability|notable]] subjects and should provide references to [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]] that [[Wikipedia:Verifiability|verify]] their content. You may wish to consider using a Wizard to help you create articles - see the [[Wikipedia:Article wizard2.0|Article Wizard]]. 

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding <code>{{tl|hangon}}</code> to '''the top of [[:Chamalal people|the page that has been nominated for deletion]]''' (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag - if no such tag exists then the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate and adding a hangon tag is unnecessary), coupled with adding a note on '''[[Talk:Chamalal people|the talk page]]''' explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for ''speedy'' deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact [[:Category:Wikipedia administrators who will provide copies of deleted articles|one of these admins]] to request that they  [[Wikipedia:Userfication#Userfication_of_deleted_content|userfy]] the page or have a copy emailed to you. <!-- Template:Db-nocontext-notice --> <!-- Template:Db-csd-notice-custom --> [[User:Inka 888|<span style="color:#228b22;">Inka</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Inka 888|888]]</sup> 22:16, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

::The article now has more context, so no longer qualifies under [[WP:CSD#A1]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:42, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

== Nederlands-Limburg ==
Joris,<br>
Please learn [http://woordenlijst.org/leidraad/6/3/#r6e the rules] before incorrectly [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Limburg_%28Netherlands%29&action=historysubmit&diff=362609475&oldid=362248536 marking something as 'incorrect']... - [[User:TaalVerbeteraar|TaalVerbeteraar]] ([[User talk:TaalVerbeteraar|talk]]) 16:49, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
:It seems I misread it back then. Anyway, a little friendlier notice would be much appreciated (or, well, something that cannot be (mis)construed as offhand); remember we're only human... As a sidenote, notice the ''space'' that [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Limburg_(Netherlands)&action=historysubmit&diff=382530782&oldid=382504973 shouldn't have been there] (which, when I think about it, may well have been the reason I misread it)? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:26, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

== Change in English ==
I noticed in this edit on [[Slavic languages]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Slavic_languages&action=historysubmit&diff=381780906&oldid=381633546] that you changed the word "neighbouring" to "neighboring". Was this done for a specific reason? As far as I know, this stuff shouldn't be changed from what was already there, but please educate me on the style guide if I am wrong! [[User:Chipmunkdavis|Chipmunkdavis]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 13:28, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, mere consistency: the rest (of the section at least) already used "neighboring". --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:40, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
::Okay, got it! I wonder how they ended up different. The original usage should be the one currently used right? Anyway, on another note, could you quickly elucidate on how Serbian/Croatian are considered one language, but Macedonian/Bulgarian are not? I always thought they had the same similarities. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|Chipmunkdavis]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 14:08, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
:::Well, as far as I know, the differences between standard Macedonian and Bulgarian are considerably larger than those between the various standards of Serbo-Croatian; all SC standards being based on the same (sub)dialect, while Macedonian and Bulgarian are based on different dialects. This would make the differences between Macedonian and Bulgarian more comparable to those between Štokavian and e.g. Čakavian. Were standard Croatian based not on Štokavian but on Čakavian, I think most people would accept Croatian and Serbian as being different languages. I know that Macedonian and Bulgarian are often claimed to be mutually intelligible, but I have yet to see anything more substantial about this than the mere claim. In general, claims of mutual intelligibility often vary, sometimes even being based on rough recognizability or something, making me quite skeptical of such mere, unsubstantiated claims. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:04, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

== Translation ==

Please, translate this text: Զյիշատակ Ազիզ տիկնոջդաւ Թիլուսիկ կոյլաւեան ծնունդ մհի պաղտասարի ամուսնացեալ'ի Պօթշան ընկա՛լո՛վ տէր եկեղեցի քո հոմորի նորափայլ. [[User:Cezarika1|Cezarika1]] ([[User talk:Cezarika1|talk]]) 05:46, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
:Why do you ask me? The best I can do is see that it's Armenian. Nowhere I have implied I speak Armenian. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:59, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

== Croatian II ==

I'd be a bit careful of 3RR at Croatian, given the history of some of the editors. Esp. if no-one's accepted the edit. There are a couple others of us who can take up the slack, and if it keeps up for long we can notify ARBMAC. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 10:22, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
:Yes, I kept 3RR in mind, though yes, it could indeed be a good idea to wait as long as it's not yet accepted by someone. Let's see where it goes this time. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:30, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
::PS. Love the translation requests. I have some Kalaallisut maybe you could take care of for me? — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 10:34, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

== October 2010 ==

[[File:Nuvola apps important.svg|25px]] You currently appear to be engaged in an '''[[Wikipedia:Edit warring|edit war]]'''. Users who [[WP:DISRUPT|edit disruptively]] or refuse to [[WP:COLLABORATE|collaborate]] with others may be blocked if they continue. In particular the [[Wikipedia:Edit warring#The three-revert rule|three-revert rule]] states that making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period is almost always grounds for an immediate block. If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the [[Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines|talk page]] to discuss controversial changes. Work towards wording and content that gains [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] among editors. If unsuccessful then '''do not edit war even if you believe you are right'''. Post a request for help at an [[Wikipedia:Noticeboards|appropriate noticeboard]] or seek [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution|dispute resolution]]. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary [[Wikipedia:Protection policy|page protection]]. If edit warring continues, '''you may be [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]] from editing''' without further notice. <!-- Template:uw-3rr --><br>
<u>'''3RR in less than 24h''' on the article [[Croatian language]]</u>. 14:40 3 Oct [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Croatian_language&diff=388458427&oldid=388454940], 16:44 3 Oct [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Croatian_language&diff=388471650&oldid=388462361], 12:15 4 Oct [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Croatian_language&diff=388653646&oldid=388652567]. [[User:Kubura|Kubura]] ([[User talk:Kubura|talk]]) 04:00, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
:I got one of these, too.  It's hilarious.  --[[User:Taivo|Taivo]] ([[User talk:Taivo|talk]]) 16:21, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know. I've been laughing too.;) --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:47, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Please, take the message seriously. Wikipedia is supposed to be serious project, not a mocking ground. [[User:Kubura|Kubura]] ([[User talk:Kubura|talk]]) 00:30, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
:I would if you would have. Your motivation for putting this here is all too clear and the one you put on Taivo's page really made me L-O-oh-so-L. 3RR in 27h? Right. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:27, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
::You probably didn't see [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AKeristrasza&action=historysubmit&diff=389023015&oldid=388875326 this howler], JorisvS.  2 reverts in 28 minutes.
::Have you stopped laughing yet?  --[[User:Taivo|Taivo]] ([[User talk:Taivo|talk]]) 14:35, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
:::I'm not quite sure. In any case, while I did stop (though it took some time), I now started really -O-L again...these are really too funny. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:42, 8 October 2010 (UTC)


I'd take out your response in the RfC. It was closed and shouldn't really be modified. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|Chipmunkdavis]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 14:26, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
:And Mir Harven's... Problem is we were still discussing there while someone just closed that, and I can't just not respond because someone decided to put a box around it. If you know how to take it out without disrupting understanding of the string of posts, then I'd appreciate it. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:30, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
::I've seen them moved to the bottom out of the box, but within the same heading, although I'm not sure that's standard practise. I alerted the closer to Mir Haven's insertion at [[User talk:Future Perfect at Sunrise#Croatian RfC note]], so you may want to ask them. Sorry can't help more. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|Chipmunkdavis]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 14:39, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

=== Notice of [[WP:ARBMAC]] ===

Please note that the article [[Croatian language]] and other articles relating to the Balkans fall under the ruling of [[WP:ARBMAC]].  Note in particular [[Wikipedia:ARBMAC#Discretionary sanctions]], which states
:"Any uninvolved administrator may, on their own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Macedonia#Area of conflict|area of conflict]] if that editor fails to adhere to the [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Macedonia#Purpose of Wikipedia|purpose of Wikipedia]], the [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Macedonia#Decorum|expected standards of behavior]], or the [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Macedonia#Editorial process|normal editorial process]].  The sanctions imposed may include blocks of up to one year in length; bans from editing any page or set of pages within the area of conflict; restrictions on reverts; or any other measures which the imposing administrator believes are reasonably necessary to ensure the smooth functioning of the project.  Prior to any sanctions being imposed, the editor in question shall be given a warning with a link to this decision."
Repeated blanket reversions, repeatedly and knowingly restoring material with large amounts of poor English and grammatical errors, and repeated introduction of material rejected by consensus all fall below the expected standards of behaviour at this project. [[User:Kubura|Kubura]] ([[User talk:Kubura|talk]]) 23:33, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

==Science and Croatian==
Your [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ACroatian_language&action=historysubmit&diff=389787088&oldid=389778400 recent post] at [[Talk:Croatian language]] has me wondering about how hard we can be with social sciences like linguistics, particularly in the language-dialect divide.  Kwami has called Croatian a "language in the sociolinguistic sense" but this is only to point out that there are multiple perspectives on this issue.  [http://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/dspace/bitstream/1808/969/1/yugoslav_myths96.pdf Greenburg] provides 5 perspectives:
# political
# functional/cultural
# historical
# structural 
# beliefs
Although from your structural (4) perspective, Croatian is just part of a larger language that many call Serbo-Croatian, how is using this perspective to answer the language-dialect question [[objectivity (science)|objective]]?  Not only is the mutual intelligibility issue problematic in itself (What percentage of unintelligibility is too unintelligible? Does grammar determine intelligibility or does lexicon/phonology? What discourse situations are relevant to the question of intelligibility? What about differences that [[diaphoneme|don't factor into intelligibility]]?), but the structural perspective seems reminiscent of the [[scientism|scientistic]] [[typology (anthropology)|typological definition of race]] that attempted to use science to reinforce what we now see as a [[Social constructionism|cultural construct]].  In other words, how are the other perspectives irrelevant? — [[User:Aeusoes1|Æµ§œš¹]] <span title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">[[User talk:aeusoes1|<small><sub>[aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]</sub></small>]]</span> 04:13, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
:I'm a bit pressed for time in RL right now. I'll get back to you later. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 20:33, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

:Quite on the contrary, it is very much the opposite of trying to use science to reinforce cultural constructs. While people often try to purport their cultural notions as "scientific", these typically break down when they are investigated truly scientifically. [[Phrenology]], racism, [[creation Science|creation 'science']], or Croatian as a ''language'' separate from e.g. Serbian, to name a few.
:All these perspectives you've mentioned are valid subjects for research, but mixing them up only confuses things. How about mixing in some political or historical views into personality traits, group dynamics, or [[general relativity|General Relativity]]? These issues surrounding mutual intelligibility are good points, but the only way out is through '''scientific''' ''scrutiny'' of these problems (including a descent amount of experimentation), not mixing in some politics.
:I'm happy to elaborate further on this if you wish. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:41, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, please do.  — [[User:Aeusoes1|Æµ§œš¹]] <span title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">[[User talk:aeusoes1|<small><sub>[aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]</sub></small>]]</span> 04:22, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
:::Croatian is not a separate dialect from Serbian. It isn't even a separate accent. What we have here are separate [[register (sociolinguistics)|register]]s and standards. These are, of course, legitimate differences, they just aren't dialectologically based. The structural differences come from (1) language planning, (2) ethnically based education, and (3) religiously and culturally (historically) based vocabulary. (At least that I'm aware of.) — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 06:00, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

== Croatian as a sociolinguistic language ==

With all this edit warring on the lead, I thought it'd be useful to have a section in the article on the social language vs the linguistic language. Please take a look at [[User:Chipmunkdavis/Sandbox]], and feel free to edit it if you can, it's quite bad now. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|Chipmunkdavis]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 00:39, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
:Certainly useful, it wouldn't be complete without one. The sentence "However, purely linguistic considerations can be 'outranked' by sociopolitical criteria, so that speech systems which are mutually intelligible have been designated as separate languages" is false. The only useful (I can't say 'valid') use of sociopolitical criteria for this is when purely linguistic evidence is (presently) ambiguous. Linguistic considerations are extremely unequivocal in the case of Croatian. While from a sociological perspective (sociolinguistics) Croatian can definitely be considered a language, structurally there is no ambiguity over its membership of the linguistic unity called Serbo-Croatian. I am at present not certain as how to rephrase it, though. I'll put this on the associated talk page too. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:53, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

== Might you be interesting in helping here? ==
I have a list for the whole Nakh-Dagestanian family, with Hurrian and Urartian included (as Starostin and others suggested) in my user pages... here [[User:Yalens/Swadesh_List_of_Nakho-Dagestani_languages]]. Since you made the Lezgic and Avar-Andic lists, might you be interested in helping? --[[User:Yalens|Yalens]] ([[User talk:Yalens|talk]]) 02:52, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:In principle I would, but I don't know how much time I will have to invest in it (way too many things to do in RL). We'll see how it goes. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:13, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

== Austronesian Basic Vocabulary Database ==

Hi ''JorisvS'', thanks for your question. The [http://language.psy.auckland.ac.nz/austronesian/research.php ABVD analysis] has serious flaws, and is highly controversial among [[Comparative linguistics|comparative linguists]]. For one thing, it is exclusively based on the lexicon (flaw #1), and even more narrowly, on 200 lexical items (flaw #2), paying no attention to sound change or to morphosyntax. Secondly, and that's a serious problem, it does not distinguish between shared retention and shared innovations (flaw #3), which is a pillar of the [[comparative method]]. I could go on and on, but others have done so in publications. Such studies are done by people (whom I know and respect) who have great mathematical knowledge, but little experience in studying the languages themselves, or on processes of language change. I think it's perfectly OK that such studies exist and are cited, as a valuable contribution to the field. However, it is not OK to erase a century of careful subgrouping studies and scholarship (synthesised in [[Oceanic_languages#References|Lynch, Ross & Crowley 2002]]), and invent some so-called "subgroups" (like "Vanuatu" or "Tonga-Samoa", etc.). which have never been supported by more careful methods. The problem is that all Wikipedia entries for Oceanic languages have been entirely rewritten based on this single study, with no room left for the more widely accepted subgroups; that is scary, and unacademic. The risk is to let oneself easily impressed by the nice graphics, or the figures (like the magic "100% support") and rewrite entire language family trees, while forgetting the flawed assumptions that underlie these computational models in the first place. A bit more caution should be exercised here, otherwise we are feeding the (sometimes legitimate) criticism about Wikipedia itself, and its unreliability. Best, [[User:Womtelo|Womtelo]] ([[User talk:Womtelo|talk]]) 23:46, 25 November 2010 (UTC).

== Croatian language article ==

I saw your participation in the Croatian language article and thought that you would be interested in this: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Croatian_language_article] --<span style="font-family:xx-medium serif;"> [[User:PRODUCER|<span style="color:black; letter-spacing:0.2cm;">◅PRODUCER</span>]] <sub>([[User talk:PRODUCER|<span style="color:black;">TALK</span>]])</sub></span> 12:01, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:59, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

== You may read this to get what is a sub-sub-subdialect ==

http://books.google.com.hk/books?id=u7MLAQAAMAAJ&q=isbn:3895862118&dq=isbn:3895862118&hl=zh-CN&ei=mD4sTYmwJIuSuwP5neHBCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA

Grts.
––[[User:虞海|<Span xml:lang="zh-Hant-CN" lang="zh-Hant">虞海</Span> (<span class="Unicode">Yú Hǎi</span>)]] <Big>[[User talk:虞海#top|<span class="Unicode">✍</span>]]</Big> 11:28, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
:That's not the point, I understand full well what such is, by its ''definition''. The talk of "sub-sub-(sub)"dialects makes it really hard to keep track of what is said/written.
:Further points: 
:#talk of a "first (sub)dialect" is nonsensical: dialects have no order. 
:#By the definition of the words 'language' and 'dialect' considering varieties that are not fully mutually intelligible not just dialects, but ''sub-sub<u>-sub</u>''dialects cannot be but politically motivated.
:#"a Chuanqiandian subsubdialect of a Chuanqiandian subdialect of a Chuanqiandian dialect" is totally nonsensical language.
:For these (and more) reasons I changed or tagged some of it, in the hopes of getting more explanation and less language gymnastics, hoping to get a grip of what was meant to be said.  --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:45, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
:: In Chinese, it's called tuyu and ci-tuyu (sub-tuyu). The using of "sub-sub" is origined from the book ISBN3895862118. ––[[User:虞海|<Span xml:lang="zh-Hant-CN" lang="zh-Hant">虞海</Span> (<span class="Unicode">Yú Hǎi</span>)]] <Big>[[User talk:虞海#top|<span class="Unicode">✍</span>]]</Big> 11:56, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
:: By its definition, a tuyu is - a patois/lect. ––[[User:虞海|<Span xml:lang="zh-Hant-CN" lang="zh-Hant">虞海</Span> (<span class="Unicode">Yú Hǎi</span>)]] <Big>[[User talk:虞海#top|<span class="Unicode">✍</span>]]</Big> 11:57, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
:: Read it and you'll know why. Even though it's written in French, the list in the book can be easily understood. ––[[User:虞海|<Span xml:lang="zh-Hant-CN" lang="zh-Hant">虞海</Span> (<span class="Unicode">Yú Hǎi</span>)]] <Big>[[User talk:虞海#top|<span class="Unicode">✍</span>]]</Big> 11:59, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
----
:: For example, say: 
* Miao yu
*# Chuanqiandian fangyan
*## Chuanqiandian cifangyan (Hmong)
*### First tuyu
*#### Hmong Daw cituyu
*#### Hmong Njua cituyu
*#### Hmong Len cituyu
*#### etc.
*### Second tuyu
*## Diandongbei cifangyan (ab Hmaob)
*## etc.
*# Qiandong fangyan
*## etc.
*# Xiangxi fangyan
*### Western tuyu
*#### First cituyu
*#### 2nd cituyu
*#### 3rd cituyu
*### Eastern tuyu
*#### etc.

––[[User:虞海|<Span xml:lang="zh-Hant-CN" lang="zh-Hant">虞海</Span> (<span class="Unicode">Yú Hǎi</span>)]] <Big>[[User talk:虞海#top|<span class="Unicode">✍</span>]]</Big> 12:04, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
----
<br>
:::Instead of addressing my objections, you state what these are ''called'' in XX language. Please address the objections, instead of playing a what-are-they-called-in-XX game. (Also, the book won't open for me, please try to provide direct links, and preferably ones I can open) --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 12:14, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
:::: I think the issue here is that ''Chuanqiandian subdialect'' is a '''proper''' subset of ''Chuanqiandian dialect'', which in turn is a proper subset of [[Miao language]]. When you changed ''Chuanqiandian subdialect'' to ''Chuanqiandian dialect'', you mischanged the size of the category. ––[[User:虞海|<Span xml:lang="zh-Hant-CN" lang="zh-Hant">虞海</Span> (<span class="Unicode">Yú Hǎi</span>)]] <Big>[[User talk:虞海#top|<span class="Unicode">✍</span>]]</Big> 15:13, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
:::: The concept of Hmong language outside China is the first ''tuyu'' of ''Chuanqiandian subdialect''. If you changed it to first ''tuyu'' of ''Chuanqiandian dialect'', the issue is: there're several subdialect of ''Chuanqiandian dialect'', and each of them have one or more ''tuyu'' (a.k.a. sub-subdialect), so it won't be clear which ''tuyu'' is the exact ''tuyu'' you want to mention by saying “first ''tuyu''”. ––[[User:虞海|<Span xml:lang="zh-Hant-CN" lang="zh-Hant">虞海</Span> (<span class="Unicode">Yú Hǎi</span>)]] <Big>[[User talk:虞海#top|<span class="Unicode">✍</span>]]</Big> 15:20, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== On the origin of the word Gheg ==

I believe that the hypothesis of the Albanian erudite [[Pashko Vasa]] is based on a written source and per this reason let to the author of the section the time and the right to find it. I looked on the web for a short time myself but couldn't find a proper citation of it, except for some vague material. Anyway maybe somebody has a written book or some proper source for it. Therefore I hope you comprehend my removal. With all due respect, [[User:Empathictrust|Empathictrust]] ([[User talk:Empathictrust|talk]]) 17:08, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
:I do, I hadn't seen that these tags were added so recently. There are other concerns, though: Whether some 19th-century guy believed this vs. whether this can reasonably be assumed to be correct (or rather: are there important dissenting viewz etc.?). Doubting the latter is easy, making presenting only this hypothesis POV. But I only thought of this just now. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:55, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

== [[South Caucasian languages]] ==
<big>'''Copied from [[User talk:ComtesseDeMingrelie#South Caucasian languages]]'''</big>

You don't get it, do you? 
*a) You '''''don't copy-paste articles when moving them'''''. This way it messes up the article history and the associated talk page's location.
*b) The "discussion" there isn't even a discussion and is super-old.
*c) The first move could be considered to fall under [[WP:BOLD]], but now it is contested ''you don't just redo it, but discuss it''!
Does this make it clear? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 18:09, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
:If my move was done badly, you do it correctly. Blank-reverting every single change I made is an easy way out and I do not agree with it. I tried to move the page as I usually do but it did not let me, this is why I had to do it manually. I did not start playing with wikipedia a couple of days ago.--[[User:ComtesseDeMingrelie|<font color="Blue">'''''ComtesseDeMingrélie'''''</font>]]  18:12, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
::So you copy-paste it?? No, you engage in a move discussion, and if then there forms a consensus to move it an administrator will execute the move. And I'm contesting the move, so I restore the stable version, not "do it correctly". '''''You don't just redo a move away from a stable version twice when contested, so cut the crap and DISCUSS!''''' By moving the page this way, and a full three times, you sure make it look like you've "just started playing with Wikipedia". --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 18:27, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Being unhappy with the move DOES NOT WARRANT the removal of legitimate edits. Do not just CLICK THE BUTTON to revert. I demand that you restore all other changes that did not involve the move/renaming.--[[User:ComtesseDeMingrelie|<font color="Blue">'''''ComtesseDeMingrélie'''''</font>]]  18:30, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Demand?? I'm clicking the undo button because I'm restoring (reverting to!) the ''stable version'', that's what the button is for. And if you request a move, you don't re-copy-paste-move it, you wait. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 18:50, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::Let me repeat it again. Whatever you think I did wrong by moving the page, removal of legitimate edits was unwarranted. End of the story.--[[User:ComtesseDeMingrelie|<font color="Blue">'''''ComtesseDeMingrélie'''''</font>]]  18:55, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
::::::Not true, they may have been good-faith, but good-faith edits may still be reverted when they're contested. And just answer here instead of my talk page. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 19:05, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
:Of course, then your talk page will be clean while mine will be full of this filth, demonizing me while portraying yourself like an angel. When you reverted the changes, you mentioned that only the move/the method of moving was contested. If you contested the good-faith edits, you should have said that but you did not. You invented this now after realizing that doing the revert manually would represent an undue hardship for you.--[[User:ComtesseDeMingrelie|<font color="Blue">'''''ComtesseDeMingrélie'''''</font>]]  19:11, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
::It should be crytal-clear from what I've said and one that it's contested, gee. And.. I'll copy it to my talk page if you'd like, but I do like to have the discussion in its entirety in one place. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 19:16, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
Please see my comments at [[Talk:South Caucasian languages#Requested move]]. [[User:Dpmuk|Dpmuk]] ([[User talk:Dpmuk|talk]]) 23:40, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
:Also please by aware of the [[WP:3RR|3RR rule]] - doing more than 3 reverts in 24 hours can get you [[WP:BLOCK|blocked]]. [[User:Dpmuk|Dpmuk]] ([[User talk:Dpmuk|talk]]) 23:47, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
::I do not need to be reminded of that, thank you.--[[User:ComtesseDeMingrelie|<font color="Blue">'''''ComtesseDeMingrélie'''''</font>]]  08:27, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

==Greek gk==
I was under the impression from [[WP:GREEK]] that an initial γκ should be transcribed as g.  Per [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Voiced_velar_plosive&action=historysubmit&diff=413554000&oldid=413553275 this edit]. am I missing something? — [[User:Aeusoes1|Æµ§œš¹]] <span title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">[[User talk:aeusoes1|<small><sub>[aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]</sub></small>]]</span> 21:25, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
:Well, there are several ways of transliterating Greek, see [[Romanization of Greek]]. And as I sort of explained in my edit summary transliterating it as <g> has [at least the potential] to create confusion, because the difference between [g] and [ɣ] is lost that way. It isn't really wrong either way, though. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 21:40, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
::Hmmm, we might want to do something about this at [[WP:GREEK]], then.  — [[User:Aeusoes1|Æµ§œš¹]] <span title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">[[User talk:aeusoes1|<small><sub>[aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]</sub></small>]]</span> 23:14, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
:::It's also good to keep in mind the difference between Ancient and Modern Greek. I've never seen e.g. Modern Greek ω transliterated as ō (but I don't dare to claim I've seen all). Also, [[WP:GREEK]] gives <y> as a possible transliteration of both <γ> and <υ>, which are quite distinct. And where did the remark about the diacritics come from? AFAIK one does not want to compromise precision when transliterating especially when completely unnecessary, which is precisely what happens when they are omitted. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 23:24, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

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Hello, this is just to let you know that I have granted you the [[WP:AUTOREV|"autopatrolled"]] permission. This won't affect your editing, it just automatically marks any page you create as patrolled, benefiting [[WP:NPP|new page patrollers]]. Please remember:
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:If you have any questions about the permission, don't hesitate to ask. Otherwise, happy editing! [[User:Acalamari|Acalamari]] 15:11, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

== Luzon ==

The figure you removed was the total number of islands in the Philippines, so good removal, but when one discuses Luzon it could mean not only the island but also the political unit. I don't know how many islands there are in the unit, but it's definitely more than one. Hope that's useful, [[User:Chipmunkdavis|Chipmunkdavis]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 14:35, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
:Yes, I know. It would be better if these were covered at separate articles, less ambiguous at the very least. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:02, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
::I used to think like that, once thought of making a separate [[Hokkaido]] article, but in the end I couldn't justify the duplication of content to myself. In the end I figure if it covers a huge island then having small islands also included in the article wouldn't be very detrimental. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|Chipmunkdavis]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 15:07, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
:::Well, if the geographical info in the article on the political unit is carefully kept to what's absolutely necessary (maybe a paragraph or two) and vice versa, it should be possible to have minimal content forking. I do concur, however, that having an article on the huge island cover also the small nearby islands wouldn't necessarily have to be very detrimental. In the case of [[Luzon]], though, I'd say it would be best to have two articles, one on the island and one on the archipelago, and note that the latter is dominated by the former, keeping the info on the separate subjects as restricted to their respective articles as much as the situation allows. A lot of care would be needed to decide what info goes where, but it should be possible. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:23, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
::::Well, quite frankly Luzon (and for that matter most Philippine articles) doesn't really have enough information to make the split anyway. I think there's a case to be made though, for the idea in general. I think if it was done you'd have summary information in the political article, and have no main articles derived from it. Say you have [[Luzon (political unit)]], in the Geography section instead of <nowiki>{{Main|Geography of Luzon (political unit)}} you have {{Main|Geography of Luzon|Geography of Mindoro|etc.}}</nowiki> with [[Geography of Luzon]] focusing only on the island. On the other hand I think [[Politics of Luzon]] would have to be about the political unit, there being nothing special about the island. What would you say if someone proposed something similar to say [[Tasmania]]?

== Interesting  ==

It will be interesting to see your proof that van Reeland referred to the alleged Austronesian group.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/93.97.194.200|93.97.194.200]] ([[User talk:93.97.194.200|talk]]) 11:31, 4 April 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
See the Talk page of the article on Malagasy and give your quotation from van Reeland there before producing anachronisms. No one
mentioned the alleged Austronesian before 1920.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/93.97.194.200|93.97.194.200]] ([[User talk:93.97.194.200|talk]]) 11:35, 4 April 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:The source supports the wording I restored, not yours. Plus, [[Malagasy language|Malagasy]] is not part of the [[Malayan languages]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 12:37, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

== Request for comment ==
This message is being sent to you because you have previously edited the [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English)]] page. There is currently a discussion that may result in a significant change to Wikipedia policy. Specifically, a consensus is being sought on if the policies of [[WP:UCN]] and [[WP:EN]] continues to be working policies for naming biographical articles, or if such policies have been replaced by a new status quo. This discussion is on-going at [[Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (use English)#Use of diacritics in biographical article titles|Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (use English)]], and your comments would be appreciated. [[User:Dolovis|Dolovis]] ([[User talk:Dolovis|talk]]) 17:36, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

== Shona Language ==

I am not a linguistic researcher, but I definitely know my language, my culture and my people much better than you do. Your claim that Manyika and Ndau are not part of Shona contradicts every text-book, that I have studied all the way tpsecondary school. Besides being a native Shona speaker I have studied Shona up to GCE Ordinary Level, and you know what, there is only one Shona examination right across the country . Besides that I am an ethnic Manyika and I am surprised that you are insisting that I am not a Shona speaker. Since you claim to the expert, can you tell me who is Shona. Do you even know where the word Shona comes from. Mind you all of us people now called Shona today did not call ourselves Shona just three generations back. Do you even know what the difference between say Zezuru and Manyika is amounts to. I can tell a Zezuru speaker apart from a Manyika speaker the moment they speak their first word even if they are speaking exactly the same word.

In academic terms I am to you what is called a raw source. Instead of trying to educate me on a system and language that I was born into, raised in you should be seeking to learn the intricacies from me. Manyika and Ndau are two of the five dialects of Shona the other three being Zezuru, Korekore and Karanga. Please don't tell me the authors of all Shona textbooks are wrong.

Mind you some of the names listed on Ethnologue are mere European mispronunciations of Shona names or Shona words spelt using Nguni syllables (Zulu, Xhosa, Swati, Ndebele). For examble Bazezuru should be vaZezuru. No such word as Bazezuru exists in any of the Shona dialects including Zezuru itself. I can easily pick up such inconsistencies. You can't.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Punungwe|Punungwe]] ([[User talk:Punungwe|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Punungwe|contribs]]) 21:20, 29 May 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== TNOs ==

FYI, I've tweaked your edit to standardize on British English ("colour") instead of the US "color". Thanks for catching the inconsistency; however, looking back through the article history, it appears to use British English from at least five years ago. Cheers. --'''[[User:Ckatz|Ckatz]]'''''<small>[[User_talk:Ckatz|<sup style="color:green;">chat</sup>]][[Special:Contributions/Ckatz|<sub style="color:red;">spy</sub>]]</small>'' 19:46, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
:Please try to take care not to also revert some unrelated changes in the process. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 23:03, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

== [[East Franconian German|East Franconian]] ==

Hi, in your latest edit of "East Franconian" You use an incorrect map. (Oberdeutsch 1945). German Wikipedia "Oberdeutsch" has a correct one: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Verbreitungsgebiet_der_oberdeutschen_Mundarten.PNG 
Nuremberg and it´s surroundings speak East Franconian, but Eisenach and surroundings don´t. For more information see also http://www.ostfraenkisches-woerterbuch.de/, a project of Bavarian Academy of Science, Mundartforschungsstelle. I´m not a linguist but east franconian "native speaker".
Greetings [[User:Kleeblatt|Kleeblatt]] ([[User talk:Kleeblatt|talk]]) 12:48, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
:I merely found it and put it in because it's much more legible than the map that was already there. I suspect it's pretty easy to change the map I've put in the article to combine it with the one you've linked to. I could look at it this weekend. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 12:54, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

== Alveolar trill in German ==
Hi, I added added two examples for the rolled r in Germany. The first word "Schmarrn" is a Bavarian dialect word, the second is normal German. I used both examples to show that even in High German in the final sound the rolled "r" is used e.g. in Swiss, parts of Austria, parts of Germany and South Tyrol. So I would suggest to have both examples. One for dialect and one for High German. --[[User:Buachamer|Buachamer]] ([[User talk:Buachamer|talk]]) 22:03, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
:I think that's possible, because, if I understand it correctly, ''Schmarrn'' would need to move to its own entry under [[Bavarian language|(Austro-)Bavarian]] anyway. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:11, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

== Votes and Votyaks ==

Do you think that all readers of Wikipedia fully understand the difference between Votes and Votyaks? Or between the Votic language (''водь, водский язык'', т.ж. ''Водская'', но и ''Вотская пятина''!) and the Votyak language (''воть, вотяки, отяки; вотский'' или ''вотяцкий язык''). As far as I know, they are very often mixed up in consonance outside Russia. --[[User:Злобин П.С.|Злобин П.С.]] ([[User talk:Злобин П.С.|talk]]) 17:28, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
:No. But when such a "not to be confused with ..." is necessary it should be a) at the top of the page ([[wikt:cf.|cf.]] the format at [[Kele language (New Guinea)]], and b) it should be clear why it is necessary. And Votyak as an alt name for [[Udmurt language|Udmurt]] was (is) not mentioned in the article about it, making the comment come [[wikt:out of the blue|out of the blue]]. But I guess I may have been a bit lazy for not looking into it and trying to address these things myself. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:45, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

== [[Béarnese dialect]] and Alexis Peyret ==
Hello, I saw your tag on this page and I tried to add Peyret's Cundes Biarnes edited in Argentina on French National library but it is rejected as a link. Do you know if any thing can be done about that. The link is http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k54303959.r=alexis+peyret.langFR. Best, --[[User:Lembeye|Lembeye]] ([[User talk:Lembeye|talk]]) 14:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Hello again, never mind, I don't know why, but now it the link is accepted. I took the ref request for Peyret because know it is linked to its argentine edition at the BNF. about Despourrins folk song I added two other sources. Could you please check and tell me you think about it? Many thanks, --[[User:Lembeye|Lembeye]] ([[User talk:Lembeye|talk]]) 16:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

:Poetry and literature are not really fields of interest of mine. I just came by, saw big claims, claims that need sourcing badly, and tagged them. I haven't looked at the references in much detail, but I seriously doubt that the Ligam-DiGam site could be a source for the claim "The main proponent of this view is Jean Lafitte, who publishes Ligam-DiGam.", because it would basically amount to someone self-proclaiming to be the 'main proponent' for something. As for the other sources, you could take a critical look at them and see whether they ''precisely'' claim what the sentence they're supposed to reference claims (only worded differently). --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 21:16, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

::Hello, I was only talking about Despourrins and Peyret, about literature and strong facts that happen more than a 100 years ago.
::LigamDigam/Lafitte, from my point of view is clearly self advertizing. It is not easy for me to remove it (it is clearly what I would prefer and what I would recommend en eventually what I will do) since I am not on their side and they are part of a very polemical attitude againt anything including the word "occitan" and trying to demonstrate that Bearnese is part of gascon, both being completly separated from occitan. The paradox is that they gather with other groups of Langue d'oc (technically a synonym of Occitan)- especially in Provence -) in order to claim local norms of orthography. Best, --[[User:Lembeye|Lembeye]] ([[User talk:Lembeye|talk]]) 06:40, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
:::I've reworded the sentence about Lafitte to be more neutral, though it may still give him [[WP:undue|undue weight]]. I doubt that a link to a page with folksongs can reference "his poems are still Béarn's <u>most emblemetic</u> folk songs" (do they really claim there what we claim here?). Note also the part I have underscored here: "most emblemetic" is an extraordinary claim and very easily non-neutral, so would need ''very'' good referencing (though it is probably better to simply reword it). As my French is far from fluent, I can't really say much about the link to Peyret's poetry (currently ref number 5). I have done some more copy-editing and placed a few tags where I think the page could be expanded or improved. I couldn't find the sociolinguistic study myself, but maybe it's easier for you. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:51, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

== [[Velar nasal]] in Portuguese ==

The velar nasal, as I wrote, exists in Portuguese loanwords. For example, merchanding. It changes most of the phonemes, but preserves the "-ng".  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/189.32.149.191|189.32.149.191]] ([[User talk:189.32.149.191|talk]]) 18:20, 22 October 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:What's your [[WP:RS|source]]? If it's "personal experience", then that is [[WP:OR|original research]] and shouldn't be in Wikipedia. If not, please cite the source. Note that there is no mention whatsoever of such a phenomenon at [[Portuguese phonology]], nor at [[Portuguese language]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 21:23, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

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== Thanks . . . ==

. . . for the Wikt link fix ("Vasconists"). I had done that before elsewhere, but for some reason I kept getting a "you can look this up in" box. Cheers -- [[User:Jo3sampl|Jo3sampl]] ([[User talk:Jo3sampl|talk]]) 19:10, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

== ET life ==

Hi JorisvS, I almost made a mistake reverting your apparent correct edit in "[[Extraterrestrial life|ET life]]", luckily this didn’t happen. Even so, by some reason, I feel I should apologize to you. By the way, please let me explain other thing:  As you obviously know, according to [[WP:ALSO]]: "See also ''can have links that may be useful for readers seeking to read as much about a topic as possible, '''including''' subjects only '''peripherally related''' to the one in question''". In spite of all that, unfortunately there was an hidden and opposite opinion (completely biased and rude) to this policy in that section demanding what an editor could place there; and said again, unfortunately violating this [[WP:ALSO]]  and  [[NPOV]].  I removed that biased opinion and temporary replaced by an informative (and polite) alert (not really an opinion) that clarified these violations of wiki-policy.  I myself intended erase it after a while; probably you did it too soon, but no problem.  [[User:Academictask|Academictask]] ([[User talk:Academictask|talk]]) 22:33, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
:Apology accepted. Because the article covers ET life in popular culture, I couldn't disagree with (the spirit) of your edit. This also made any hidden comment obsolete (as it was rather lenghthy, I felt I had to characterize it somehow, though it wasn't simply some unfounded opinion piece; apologies on my part for that). Then I noticed that the ''See also'' section contained rather many links. So I decided to remove the links that were already present in the article (per the MoS). This just happened to include all those of the popular-culture part (after adding a few appropriate links to the article body). I understand how at first sight this must have appeared to you. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 23:07, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
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== NASA are liars ==

It will be interesting to see you prove that NASA are lying and that Kepler never wrote in 1596 about the space between Mars and Jupiter.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/92.27.109.117|92.27.109.117]] ([[User talk:92.27.109.117|talk]]) 16:19, 27 December 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:What are you talking about? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:41, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

== Serbo-Croatian ==

Please, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Serbo-Croatian&action=historysubmit&diff=469351394&oldid=469351043 explain your self.] --<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:WhiteWriter |WhiteWriter ]]<sup>[[User talk:WhiteWriter |speaks]]</sup></span> 17:11, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
:That page has been regularly vandalized by POV editors trying to push their separate-languages POV, which is contrary to the scientific consensus: The various standards are all easily mutually intelligible and hence part of the same language, no matter what its speakers might want to believe. Was I mistaken in identifying you as one of those, despite your edit? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:21, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
::Scientific consensus cannot stop the fact that language is not official today. That is the reason i edited the article. Do you have some objection with the fact that language is not official anymore? And it would be vise to be careful with calling other user a POV vandal, without even slightest remembrance of [[Wikipedia:Good faith|good faith]]. Thanks for your understanding. --<span style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texhtml">[[User:WhiteWriter |WhiteWriter ]]<sup>[[User talk:WhiteWriter |speaks]]</sup></span> 17:27, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
:::You removed the phrase saying where it was spoken (while moving the the part about when it was official up). That triggered me. I'll give you some good advice too: Next time, try being more careful when deleting good information. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:42, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

== DPs ==

I sympathize that it's a bit difficult to follow Ortiz's English with any great certainty, but I wonder [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=90482_Orcus&curid=478224&diff=469712945&oldid=469707344 here] how "Orcus qualiﬁes to become a dwarf planet" wouldn't mean that it meets the criteria of being a dwarf planet. Not that we need all three sources, but given all the drama, it might be a good idea.

Also, could you review these,[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Haumea_%28dwarf_planet%29&curid=2333728&diff=469708038&oldid=469672167][http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Makemake_%28dwarf_planet%29&curid=2340343&diff=469711874&oldid=469711114] as both Sheppard and the IAU note that they may turn out to not be DPs (as unlikely as tat eventuality may be), and I think that wording reflects the sources, though it can probably be improved.

(Oh, and now {{dp|Sedna}} as well, despite Kheider accepting the changes.) — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 14:22, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
:Maybe Ortiz does, but his wording doesn't unambiguously say so (and hence technically makes it OR). Given all the drama I think it is a good idea to only include those sources that unambiguously say so (but, yes, as many as possible). 
:As for Haumea and Makemake, maybe it is better to just call them DPs, note that they were (originally) included because of their abs. mag. (incl. ref!) and then say that not all astronomers consider these to be certainly DPs (again with ref)? This would change as little as possible and hence create less fuss, which creates a bigger likelihood that such properly sourced pieces of information can make their way into a article.
:And I see Ruslik is now inserting his own POV weasel wording not at all supported by the references: "It is thought to be a likely ..."[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=50000_Quaoar&curid=21491359&diff=469720668&oldid=469720149]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:00, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

::Some POV inserted [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=90377_Sedna&diff=469720894&oldid=469720404 here], if you wouldn't mind.
::To reduce drama, could you change the wording for Haumea & Makemake? Though if we follow Sheppard, they are "likely", as Sedna and Orcus are. More widely accepted, of course, but Sheppard is a RS we shouldn't dismiss, IMO.
::BTW, a slightly more recent Tancredi ref. Can't link directly from WP, but you can enter it into the address window manually:
::first: http://www.google.com/
::then: url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=13&ved=0CCwQFjACOAo&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbackend.710302.xyz%3A443%2Fhttp%2Fjournals.cambridge.org%2Farticle_S1743921310001717&ei=P7wFT5btC4n9sQLkpMmQCg&usg=AFQjCNEPgt0xnS-QeNJJ2PG7_lAu3xuBqw
::— [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 15:16, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
:::I can't find that link. I'll take a crack at Haumea and Makemake in a minute. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:25, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
::::It works. Make sure you keep the slash between the two parts of the address. The paper is ''Physical and dynamical characteristics of icy “dwarf planets” (plutoids)''. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 15:39, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
:::::Hmm, it took some more trial and error to get it to work, but I have it now. Really weird that simple direct linking[http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=%2FIAU%2FIAU5_S263%2FS1743921310001717a.pdf&code=0cc0956ddafb492ea52396b9fb4b0cce] doesn't work. And why is the way you linked it on WP's blacklist?? Anyway, I'll take a look at it now. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:49, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
:::::Maybe we can link it this way: [http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=7462648]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:54, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Ruslik0 is back to censoring the article, because the IAU ref on DP naming is evidently not adequate. I don't think that trying to placate someone that biased will help any. IMO we should just report what the refs say up front. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 09:03, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Also, could you take a look at [[Template:Moons of dwarf planets]]? The whole point of that is navigation. I don't see why we can't allow Orcus and Quaoar, though maybe a change in wording is in order. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 09:31, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
:That's complicated. Anything that suggests more universally accepted DPs than the IAU five will get reverted. Try adding a row with 'DPs accepted by some' or something.
:Also, could you point me to the IAU ref about the absolute magnitude thing of Makemake and Haumea? I can't seem to find it now. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:58, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
::I've been looking too. I remember it from earlier discussions, but all I can find off-hand in the IAU rule for H > 1 getting named by the planetary naming committee as DPs, then the press releases that the planetary naming committee named those objects and announced they were DPs. I've written the IAU and asked where the reason for acceptance has been published. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 10:04, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
:::Heh, I just read one of Ruslik's comments reverting the addition of Quaoar and Orcus to the template: "These two are not dwarf planets"[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AMoons_of_dwarf_planets&action=historysubmit&diff=467624012&oldid=465715599]. It illustrates how people ''feel'' about this. Yet I can't imagine how these could possibly turn out not to be DPs.
:::As a bit of constructive criticism, I must also point out to you that adding dubious tags to Makemake and Haumea being DPs only serves to make the other contributors less open towards your other contributions and hence makes them ''more'' likely to get reverted. And who wants that? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:20, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

::::How's that?
::::The 'dubious' tags are not there because I doubt they're DPs—I don't, but because the wording is inconsistent and reflects bias for some sources over other, perfectly good ones. I'd be happy at using "is" only for the 3 known DPs or the 9 "must be" DPs, but not for a definition based on H when H is not part of the definition of a DP. Do you know a tag that might be less contentious? It's really biased, not dubious, but the bias tags I know of are all section tags, not inline.
::::I still find it difficult to believe that in a scientific topic the majority of editors would base factual claims on their emotions rather than the best sources. I keep thinking that if we get more editors who know what they're talking about they will outweigh the nuts, but maybe that isn't going to happen. But if so, it just gets worse: at that point we need to think about revoking FA status. Not being able to follow sources is an embarrassment. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 10:44, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
:::::No, I understand that, and I don't doubt your motives. I'm just trying to help. It is that tagging that that way sends the wrong message. I agree with you about the emotions part. I don't understand that either. But since they do, it would be best for us to keep that in mind while editing, because then we can accomplish most. For example by making smaller, well sourced changes. As for the tag, maybe {{[[Template:POV-statement|POV-statement]]}}, or better yet, gradually make ''small'' sourced changes to improve it. Discussion about it is also possible, but is only constructive if we carefully take others' emotions into account. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 12:26, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

He's back.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Moons_of_dwarf_planets&curid=8462682&diff=469905310&oldid=469878477] — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 14:44, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

==your comment on my article==

Hi, you placed a clean up tag on my new page, [[Defensive attribution hypothesis]]. I've reviewed the page and made changes. Should I remove the tag?  Thanks for the help. [[User:Dr Ashton|Dr Ashton]] ([[User talk:Dr Ashton|talk]]) 16:55, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
:With the current layout both tags are very much still valid, and thus shouldn't be removed. If you want to improve the article, it will be helpful not to treat it as another psychological literature review or something similar. It could also be helpful to look through the [[WP:MOS|Manual of Style]] and related pages, e.g. [[WP:MOS/layout]]. If you have any more questions, I'm happy to help. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:44, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

== [[79360 Sila-Nunam]] ==

Hi,

The double name for a double object implies it's the name of the system and not the primary. Would affect the wording of the 'satellite' section. Trying to confirm. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 03:25, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

:Comments if you set up your email. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 06:41, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
::I have thought of that, too. Yet JPL calls it 79360 Sila-Nunam, but the Patroclus–Menoetius system [[617 Patroclus]]. So we'd need confirmation before we act on the hunch. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 12:35, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
:::It is confirmed. To be published shortly. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 12:49, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

==Hyphen==
Hey JorisvS with respect to this edit [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Large-cell_lung_carcinoma&action=historysubmit&diff=417953331&oldid=417532659] there is a specific consensus against adding many of these hyphens. With the consensus being that we will follow the medical literature. Cheers [[User:Jmh649|<span style="color:#0000f1">'''Doc James'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Jmh649|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Jmh649|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Jmh649|email]]) 14:21, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification==

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:Fixed. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:29, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

== email ==

Could you activate your email? I have some comments to send you. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 21:23, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
:Activated. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:39, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification==

Hi. When you recently edited [[Enceladus (moon)]], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page [[Bifurcation]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Enceladus_%28moon%29|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Enceladus_%28moon%29|fix with Dab solver]]). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the [[User:DPL bot/Dablink notification FAQ|FAQ]]{{*}} Join us at the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|DPL WikiProject]].</small>

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:I've tagged it as a link to a dab page because I'm uncertain myself. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:17, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for March 4==

Hi. When you recently edited [[Tsakhur language]], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page [[Nasal consonant]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Tsakhur_language|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Tsakhur_language|fix with Dab solver]]). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the [[User:DPL bot/Dablink notification FAQ|FAQ]]{{*}} Join us at the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|DPL WikiProject]].</small>

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:Fixed. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 20:55, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

== Neptune trojan ==

Hi Joris - nice job on the expansion of Neptune trojan. 
Just a note I wanted to mention: please be very careful to paraphrase the sources? "may as well be a long-term resident that happens not to be perfectly dynamically stable" is super-similar phrasing to the original text. I'm COI'd out of working on the article now, but I can do an expert review once you're done with expansion if you plan to put it through GA etc. [[User:Iridia|Iridia]] ([[User talk:Iridia|talk]]) 04:28, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
:I guess I'm a bit afraid of accidentally saying something the source didn't mean. At any rate, I expect to rephrase and -word everything once I have incorporated more sources. But maybe it couldn't hurt to try to rephrase the few things I already know I'm not happy about. And thanks for the offer of expert review, I will take it when the time comes. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:11, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
== Satellite-planemo candidates ==

[[List_of_gravitationally_rounded_objects_of_the_Solar_System|<sup>1</sup>]]How so nowhere near big enough? You didn't look at their size estimates did you? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 11:20, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
:What do you mean when you say 'these are not confirmed'? Obviously, satellite planemos are not dwarf-planet candidates plainly because they're satellites. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 10:37, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
::There is always the possibility that satellites could be classified as dwarf planets in the future. The original IAU proposal called for Charon to be included among the dwarf planets. <b>[[User:Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">Serendi</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Serendipodous|<sup style="color:#bb0000;">pod</sup>]][[User talk: Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">ous</span>]]</b> 13:41, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
:::That's speculation about whether the definition of the term "dwarf planet" will change, thus [[WP:CBALL|crystal ball]]. Satellites currently aren't, even Charon isn't.
:::I'll repeat the question part because I would like a (plain) answer to it: "What do you mean when you say 'these are not confirmed'?" --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 17:23, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
::::Their radii estimates are too uncertain. The error bars are too high, so there won't be a consensus on their size for some time. <b>[[User:Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">Serendi</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Serendipodous|<sup style="color:#bb0000;">pod</sup>]][[User talk: Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">ous</span>]]</b> 17:25, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
:::::Yes, I understand that. What makes them candidates is that their best estimates place them within or above the size range in which icy bodies will become round. They may turn out to be smaller and not be round, but that is taken into account by calling them candidates. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 17:51, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
:::::Do you have anything to say in response to what I have said? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 12:16, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
::::::My gut reaction to this is simply that we have a whole list of objects whose shapes have been determined to a fair degree of accuracy, and a group of objects that have not, and I would rather keep the page focused on those objects with determined shapes, while limiting those that have not. <b>[[User:Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">Serendi</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Serendipodous|<sup style="color:#bb0000;">pod</sup>]][[User talk: Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">ous</span>]]</b> 12:37, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
:::::::Well, I can understand why you would. There is currently, however, one problem with that: The same applies to the DP candidates section. These objects' shapes are not known (some do have known light-curve amplitudes, though others have not), otherwise these would be considered DPs, not candidates. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 21:28, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
::::::::Which is why I said "limiting" and not "excluding". This list was made years ago, when it was pretty much assumed that the IAU would make Sedna, Orcus, Quaoar and OR10 dwarf planets any day now. Because in the literature, those objects are often referred to as dwarf planets anyway, it seemed best to have a place for them to avoid confusing readers who thought they were. <b>[[User:Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">Serendi</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Serendipodous|<sup style="color:#bb0000;">pod</sup>]][[User talk: Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">ous</span>]]</b> 07:11, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::This rationale still makes the DP candidates section rather problematic, IMHO. Why some are included while others get excluded eludes me. {{mp|2005 QU|182}} may be bright, but it is also very poorly known (I haven't been able to dig up much more about it than info on its orbit and a tentative spectrum). On the other hand, Ixion and Varuna are (probably) relatively small, but better studied. (Of course the inclusion of Sedna, {{mp|2007 OR|10}}, Quaoar, and Orcus is obvious). --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:31, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
::::::::::Perhaps we could come up with a better criterion for inclusion, such as brightness or "strong acceptence" as DPs based on the lists in [[List of dwarf planet candidates]]. <b>[[User:Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">Serendi</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Serendipodous|<sup style="color:#bb0000;">pod</sup>]][[User talk: Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">ous</span>]]</b> 10:46, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
{{od}}
:I then think it would be best to have this based on actual measurements that suggest that the object is a DP, like in [http://ac.els-cdn.com/S0019103508000304/1-s2.0-S0019103508000304-main.pdf?_tid=8bf44bda1d891a810565b1a4c44f91be&acdnat=1333451194_9454d87fa355c815468f0f90a0713933 this study (if you can access it)] (a similar table is also included in [http://journals.cambridge.org/article_S1743921310001717 this paper] (in which Eris's listed size is worse but Sedna's and Makemake's are better than in the former)). --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:17, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
::I'd rather base the criterion on something concrete and uncontroversial, rather than one astronomer's conclusions. Especially after the hell we've been through over the whole "Sedna's a dwarf planet/no it's not" debate. <b>[[User:Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">Serendi</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Serendipodous|<sup style="color:#bb0000;">pod</sup>]][[User talk: Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">ous</span>]]</b> 13:36, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
:::If you know of something more appropriate than ''measurements'', then please, be my guest... And of course we would use as many sources as we could find (not just Tancredi) and include only those objects they agree on. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:49, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
::::The original criterion for the DPC page was brightness. But yes I'd be OK if there was a plurality of sources. <b>[[User:Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">Serendi</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Serendipodous|<sup style="color:#bb0000;">pod</sup>]][[User talk: Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">ous</span>]]</b> 20:22, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

== WikiProject Immunology ==

I see you have edited some of the pages within the scope of immunology. Please have a look at the proposal for a WikiProject Immunology [[WP:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Immunology]] and give your opinion (support or oppose). Thank you for your attention. <span style="border: 1px solid #C90016;background:white">[[User:Kinkreet|<b><font style="colour:#002147;">Kinkreet</font></b>]][[User talk:Kinkreet|<sup><font style="colour:#993333;">~&#9829;moshi moshi&#9829;~</font></sup>]]</span> 09:43, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

== Solar System ==

Thanks for the cleanup; I added that reflist for preview purposes then forgot to delete before submitting! —Alex ([[User:Ashill|ASHill]] &#124; [[User_talk:Ashill|talk]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Ashill|contribs]]) 11:44, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
:Yes, thought so. You're welcome. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:56, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

== Homogenous surface? ==

Have you inspected [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Artist's_impression_dwarf_planet_Pluto.png the image] on high resolution? It has nowhere near a homogeneous surface, I won't revert it anymore, it is on Wikimedia released as free image, if it is used or not, I won't bother about it. <b style="background:#FEE;padding:5px;font-size:10px">[[User:Eduemoni|<b style="color:#913">Ed</b><b style="color:#C13">ue</b><b style="color:#D35">mo</b><b style="color:#E57">ni</b>]][[User Talk:Eduemoni|<sup style='color:green'>↑talk↓</sup>]]</b> 16:13, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
:Yes, I have. I had to really look for surface features. Ehm, are those dark areas supposed to be albedo features, not an effect of lighting (as it suggested to me)? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:04, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
::It was based on both HST image and in the actual text for its appearance which describe Pluto as "one of the most contrastive bodies in the Solar System", and its colors varying from "between charcoal black, dark orange and white" and [Buie et al.] "significantly less red than Mars and much more similar to the hues seen on Io with a slightly more orange cast". <b style="background:#FEE;padding:5px;font-size:10px">[[User:Eduemoni|<b style="color:#913">Ed</b><b style="color:#C13">ue</b><b style="color:#D35">mo</b><b style="color:#E57">ni</b>]][[User Talk:Eduemoni|<sup style='color:green'>↑talk↓</sup>]]</b> 18:48, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

== Invitation for comment ==

As you are an experienced editor and in particular has been very constructively helping damaged articles, your opinion would be very appreciated in this, as yet, non-consensual and '''critical''' [[Talk:Ethereal_beings#Label|talk]]. Thanks, [[User:Excalibursword|Excalibursword]] ([[User talk:Excalibursword|talk]]) 17:11, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

==[[Terraforming]]==
Hi JorisvS, would you be able to change the 1 column of bullets in the "See also" section into 2 columns? I think this would increase readability and compress the section a bit (which is needed as it's huge). And there's also the fact that i don't know how to change it to 2 columns.
Thanks for reverting my edit with the moon by the way, i was unsure about that and it didn't appear to offer any real benefit. Thanks again <span style="background:#000">[[User:Jenova20|'''<font color="red">J</font><font color="orange">e</font><font color="#FF0">n</font><font color="#0F0">o</font><font color="cyan">v</font><font color="#F0F">a</font>''']]</span>[[User talk:Jenova20|'''20''']] 15:30, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
:Three columns now. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:46, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
::Much better! Thanks <span style="background:#000">[[User:Jenova20|'''<font color="red">J</font><font color="orange">e</font><font color="#FF0">n</font><font color="#0F0">o</font><font color="cyan">v</font><font color="#F0F">a</font>''']]</span>[[User talk:Jenova20|'''20''']] 15:59, 3 July 2012 (UTC)



== Edit ==

On [[Cham Albanian dialect]] I reverted (eventually) the source misrepresentation of Euzen, but unfortunately I didn't notice that I reverted your edit at first. --[[User:ZjarriRrethues|<span style="background-color:maroon; color:white;">'''—&nbsp;''ZjarriRrethues''&nbsp;—'''</span>]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User_talk:ZjarriRrethues|talk]]</sup> 11:55, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
:It's no problem to revert a misrepresentation that I did not notice. I would appreciate it, however, if you would redo my copyediting that you inadvertently reverted, instead of leaving that to me. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:37, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

== Ceres ==

The point of the awkward wording here[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ceres_%28dwarf_planet%29&curid=5595163&diff=502474469&oldid=502438358] was to avoid the question of whether KBOs are 'asteroids'. Maybe it's not an issue. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 04:08, 16 July 2012 (UTC)


==Ural Altaic fantasy==

Ural-altaic languages are not supported by Scientific Societies/Academies of the World and Hungarian Scientific academy doesn't support it. All great national encyclopedias (English Britannica, American E. Americana, German Brockhaus E.,French LaRousse, Encarta encyclopedia deny the Ural-Altaic fantasy.

See: Hungarian turnism article. Hungarian turanism is strongly related to Hungarian fascism and Ferenc Szálasi too. Hungarian turanists hated the idea of Finno-Ugric language family, but they lost the scientific language debate locally (in Hungary) and internationally (Europe Americas). After that they started to propage the Ural-Altaic fantasy theory. It wasn't successful too. Please don't support Turanism (including Ural-Altaic family) fascism and Jobbik party.--[[Special:Contributions/188.36.107.161|188.36.107.161]] ([[User talk:188.36.107.161|talk]]) 19:55, 18 July 2012 (UTC)


Read books about it: https://www.google.hu/search?complete/search?client=serp&hl=hu&gs_nf=1&ds=bo&pq=%22ural%20altaic%22%20%22ferenc%20sz%C3%A1lasi%22&cp=101&gs_id=14&xhr=t&q=On%20doctrines%20of%20Hungarian%20racism%2C%20see%20J.%20A.%20Kessler%2C%20%22Turanism%20and%20Pan-Turanism%20in%20Hungary%2C%201890-1945&ech=2&psi=EhUHUMG5G6Kj4gSz672UCQ.1342641432015.5&emsg=NCSR&noj=1&ei=IxUHUI_WJ-r64QTYl5yqCQ  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/188.36.107.161|188.36.107.161]] ([[User talk:188.36.107.161|talk]]) 19:59, 18 July 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:I know of the very limited support for Ural–Altaic. I am not supporting it by undoing your edit: What the other proposed branches of Eurasiatic are is just not relevant (and the way you added it breaks the sentence), and primitive political ideologies like Turanism (or any other, for that matter) are irrelevant to the lede of an article on a proposed language family, which is, in principle, scientific, not political. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:03, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

== DPs ==

Since people appear to have accepted your wording on the [[template:Moons of dwarf planets|moon template]], maybe we've found a solution. Perhaps you could try the [[dwarf planet|main article]] again? If I did, I'd probly be opposed on principle. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 09:07, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
:I'll take a crack at it piecemeal, so it may take some time for me to get through it. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 20:17, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

== Uralic langs ==

Requested semi-protection for all Uralic language articles. ([[Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection#Current_requests_for_protection]]) — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 19:47, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
:There are a few articles the anon edited and you missed in your round of reverts. I've reverted those. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:28, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

== [[Kurdish language]] ==

I've reworded this, attributing the two positions. I can't see why you left in a source that didn't back the statement, and in any case those two sources don't back the claim " Systematic comparison of Kurdish with other Iranian languages shows that Kurdish is a northwestern Iranian language" - indeed the article makes it clear that Kurdish is not a unified standard language and that not all Kurdish speakers can understand each other. I'm sure it can use improvement, but reverting to the old version was not the way to go about this. As for the Infobox, Infoboxes are often misleading in that they present only a black and white view of what is often too complex to be represented that way. [[User:Dougweller|Dougweller]] ([[User talk:Dougweller|talk]]) 13:42, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
:Apparently I didn't look at the sentence as a whole! Sorry about that. Anyway, it seems OK now. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:51, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
::Thanks. There is a lot of edit-warring going on around this, partially in an attempt to prove that the Kurds are the Medeans by saying that they both spoke northwestern Iranian languages. Sock puppets, you name it, and it drives my head in. [[User:Dougweller|Dougweller]] ([[User talk:Dougweller|talk]]) 14:19, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

== Permic languages ==

Thanks for correcting my addition of Finno-Ugric and Finno-Permic to the tree at [[Permic languages]].  I was also coming to the conclusion that they would be better left out.  I have added some text regarding the traditional taxonomy.  Also, the articles on [[Komi language]] and the three varieties need to be harmonized.  I may take a shot at this, and would certainly welcome any corrections.  --[[User:Amble|Amble]] ([[User talk:Amble|talk]]) 22:13, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
:Sure, I'll keep an eye out for anything I can correct. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:22, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

== [[Calcium–aluminium-rich inclusion]] ==

Hi,  I dont care which version of dash is used in the article name that you just moved, but I'd at least like it to be consistent since there are two dashes in the name and now they aren't the same.  [[User:Dmadeo|dm]] ([[User talk:Dmadeo|talk]]) 22:48, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
:There is only one dash: between calcium and aluminium. The one of "-rich" is a hyphen. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:03, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
:: Sorry, I just saw this now.  I'm sure I'm missing something extremely obvious, but why is one a dash and one a hyphen? [[User:Dmadeo|dm]] ([[User talk:Dmadeo|talk]]) 02:30, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
:::The relationship between 'calcium' and 'aluminium' is symmetrical ([[WP:NDASH]], 2), one is not subordinate to the other, whereas 'rich' is subordinate to 'calcium–aluminium' ([[Hyphen#Compound modifiers]]/[[MOS:HYPHEN]]). The inclusion is rich in calcium and aluminium. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:11, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
:::: Thanks for the explanation, MOS:Hyphen is a fascinating read [[User:Dmadeo|dm]] ([[User talk:Dmadeo|talk]]) 03:19, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

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== [[Lowland Semang language]] ==

Linked to [[Spurious languages]], per ''Ethnologue''. However, we mention a(nother?) lang by this name at [[Aslian languages#Endangerment and extinction]]. Don't know if that means we should redirect or create a stub? — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 19:30, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
:I don't know (yet). What language family would the spurious "Lowland Semang [orb]" have belonged to? Can we tell anything meaningful about (Aslian) [[Wila' language|Wila']]? And is it certain that that isn't a spurious language? These things we should know first. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:44, 20 September 2012 (UTC)


==Dongxiang language in Arabic script?==

Hi! On [[Dongxiang people]] two images have been labeled as Dongxiang language in Arabic script:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Flickr_-_Omar_A._-_Linxia.jpg
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Flickr_-_Omar_A._-_IMG_2200.jpg

While I have some understanding about Dongxiang language, I cannot read the Arabic script. But we would know much more if you could tell whether these images are actually in Arabic or rather in some other language? Thanks for your help! [[User:G Purevdorj|G Purevdorj]] ([[User talk:G Purevdorj|talk]]) 12:18, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
:The best I can do is say that to me it looks like something in the [[Arabic script]]. I cannot read the Arabic script either, I cannot say in which language it is written. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:09, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
==Trojan==
<s>Jorvis</s><u>JorisvS</u>, we can play edit tag for all eternity or we can actually talk about this. "Trojan" is a proper noun. It is ALWAYS a proper noun, regardless of the sense in which it is being used. "Trojan" is capitalised because it refers to the city of Troy, just as "Londoner" and "New Yorker" are also always capitalised.  <b>[[User:Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">Serendi</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Serendipodous|<sup style="color:#bb0000;">pod</sup>]][[User talk: Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">ous</span>]]</b> 11:29, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
:It refers to a class of objects, which makes it a common noun with respect to its meaning. "Trojan" as meaning an inhabitant of the city Troy is semantically a derivation of a proper noun that, like "Londoner" and the like, should be capitalized. However, "trojan" referring to the objects has no semantic relation to the city Troy, and the term merely originates from that city's name through a chance association. The word is more akin to "moon" (natural satellite), which is itself also derived from a proper noun: "the Moon". And in any case, it is also often written in lowercase. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:41, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
::When you actually look at the list of things named for residents of places, such as frankfurters, hamburgers, or Berliner sausages, whether one chooses to capitalise the letter is largely down to convention, and in this case, [http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=%22neptune+trojan%22&hl=en&lr=&btnG=Search nearly every scholarly article] that mentions the Neptune Trojans capitalises "Trojan", [http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=mars+trojan&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&as_subj=phy&start=10&sa=N as does every article on "Mars Trojans"], so I think we can conclude that "Trojan" is always capitalised. <b>[[User:Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">Serendi</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Serendipodous|<sup style="color:#bb0000;">pod</sup>]][[User talk: Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">ous</span>]]</b> 15:55, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:::Actually, Serendipodous, Trojan/trojan is a common noun. We capitalize it because it's derived from a proper noun. Same as American, which is also a capitalized common noun. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 18:51, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

::::I agree with JorisvS - The term "trojan moon" is not capitalized because it refers to to a class of objects, not a unique group that has achieved proper noun status. You would capitalize the word in "Trojan moons" if you were (somehow) referring to moons of the city of Troy. [[User:Embram|Embram]] ([[User talk:Embram|talk]]) 15:51, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Original Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | For hyphens. [[User:Rothorpe|Rothorpe]] ([[User talk:Rothorpe|talk]]) 16:39, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
|}
:Thanks! --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:41, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

== Typos ==

Thanks for catching that typo in [[Solar System]] - it was appreciated. --'''[[User:Ckatz|Ckatz]]'''''<small>[[User_talk:Ckatz|<sup style="color:green;">chat</sup>]][[Special:Contributions/Ckatz|<sub style="color:red;">spy</sub>]]</small>'' 20:13, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
:No problem, that's what it's Wikipedia for;). --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 21:44, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

== [[Natural satellite]] ==

As I said in response to your comment in my talk, I have no problem with changing "most every", but I disagree with the way you edited the passage, because you have made it less precise. The way you have written it, the language literally reads that a plural number of natural satellites follow a single (i.e., the same) orbit, and that regular moons are tidally locked to respective primaries (plural), which leaves it ambiguous as to whether each regular moon might have more than one primary. What is wrong with leaving at the way I wrote it, except changing "most every" to the more formal "almost every"? [[User:Embram|Embram]] ([[User talk:Embram|talk]]) 16:15, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
:I overlooked one element to pluralize. Now it should be unambiguous about it. As I said, "most every" is ungrammatical English, so "almost every" is not just 'more formal'. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:21, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
::Sorry, I must disagree. Changes to grammar like this (involving phrases) become acceptable and even grammatical with use, as long as they do not cause confusion or violate some basic rule of grammar. "Most every" is grammatical, though informal, in American English. See link, for example: http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/most_1

::But I do not object to your removal of "most every." However, you have not answered my question: with the exception of "most every", what was wrong with the alternative version of the passage, which was more precise before you changed it? ''"Almost every regular moon (a natural satellite of a planet following a relatively close and prograde orbit with little orbital inclination or eccentricity) in the Solar System is tidally locked to its respective primary…."'' Your changing it added a grammatical ambiguity as to number (how many respective primaries each regular moon has), as well as leaving no clear antecedent basis for ''the natural satellite'' in the final clause of the sentence. I cannot win arguing with you about it, since you have reviewer status, but I urge you to consider the question fairly and change it back (or allow me to change it back) to the more precise version (except using "Almost every"), and remove the antecedent problem (perhaps change it to '''''each''''' ''natural satellite''). [[User:Embram|Embram]] ([[User talk:Embram|talk]]) 16:57, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
:::Check my edits, specifically the one that says 'missed this'. Unless I'm missing something else, it should be good now. What exactly is your proposal with the ''''''each''''''? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:05, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
::::The phrase ''their respective primaries'' still has the same number ambiguity, but while I think the singular version of the passage superior, I would not press the matter or even bother changing it (or the antecedent problem) now that I think about it, because I think most people would understand what is meant the way it now reads.

::::Incidentally, not that I never make mistakes (I do sometimes make them), but just as background, I have been a patent attorney for nearly twenty years, so it is my business to be critically precise with language where necessary, particularly with regard to matters of number and words like "respectively," which is why I changed that passage while editing. [[User:Embram|Embram]] ([[User talk:Embram|talk]]) 17:33, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
:::::It's good to be critically precise about language when writing an encyclopedia, so no problem there! Could you spell the ambiguity in "their respective primaries" out for me? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:38, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
::::::Well, it's a small matter and as I said, I think people will normally understand that you mean each natural satellite is tidally locked to its respective primary, but (for example) if I were a patent litigator trying to defend against a charge of patent infringement by my client's widget, which comprised a number of knobs each of which was connected to a single (respective) shaft, and the plaintiff's patent recited "a plurality of knobs connected to their respective shafts", I might take advantage of the fact that the word "shafts" is plural by arguing that "a plurality of knobs connected to their respective shafts" requires more than one knob '''each of which''' is connected to '''more than one''' shaft.  To avoid that problem, the drafter of the claim should have written "a plurality of knobs each of which is connected to a shaft" (or "to a respective shaft" or "to its corresponding shaft" or something similar, depending on the situation). But as I said, that level of specificity may be necessary in patents, but (I'm guessing) not in an encyclopedia entry where readers would normally assume (unless told otherwise) that each satellite has only one primary, and the phrase "satellites locked to respective primaries" '''could''' literally mean one primary to a satellite, as well as more than one, so it's not wrong ''per se.'' I only changed the passage when I came across it (while editing for another reason) because I'm used to correcting to that level of specificity. I expect you're more expert than I when it comes to the standards of clarity needed for encyclopedias. And by the way, thanks for catching "most every" - I hadn't realized it was an Americanism. [[User:Embram|Embram]] ([[User talk:Embram|talk]]) 18:36, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
:::::::Thanks for the explanation. As you said, readers will normally not misunderstand it. In this case especially so, because a moon can only have one primary (whereas your knobs could potentially have more than one shaft). Therefore, while legally it is subject to multiple interpretations, there is only one that also makes sense. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:59, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
::::::::Quite so! Context is king. [[User:Embram|Embram]] ([[User talk:Embram|talk]]) 19:01, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

==Glasgow effect==
I appreciate [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Glasgow_effect&curid=37589545&diff=524986881&oldid=524710447 your edit], though it seems the article's main contributor is having trouble accepting what seems obvious to you and me.  You may want to contribute to the talk page discussion on the matter. — [[User:Aeusoes1|Æµ§œš¹]] <span title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">[[User talk:aeusoes1|<small><sub>[ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ]</sub></small>]]</span> 18:19, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
:I will try, though for me your explanation on the talk page is very clear, and hence I don't know what is needed to make him understand it. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:25, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

== Moksha language ==

Hi, JorisvS. Pls kindly comment what exactly seems dubious to your opinion? Prosecutor's Office information? Or the fact that the source information is in Russian (not in English) and not clear what exactly was said? --Numulunj pilgae 16:56, 7 December 2012 (UTC)  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Numulunj pilgae|Numulunj pilgae]] ([[User talk:Numulunj pilgae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Numulunj pilgae|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:I've explained it on the [[Talk:Moksha language#Teaching Moksha|associated talk page]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:15, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

== Dwarf Planet Pre-2006 ==

Noting your edits on [[Eris (dwarf planet)]] and [[Makemake (dwarf planet)]], you state that "they have been DPs all along (or would not have been that at all)".

I was simply trying to be true to the fact that the words "Dwarf Planet" did NOT fully exist prior to the [[International Astronomical Union]] reached their final decisions on August 24, 2006.  As such, was trying to say that they were announced in 2005 as new TNOs, and were later designated DPs (once DPs were finally defined in 2006).  This might be important to the articles - but then again it might be too technically correct to make a difference.  Your thoughts? [[User:Jmg38|Jmg38]] ([[User talk:Jmg38|talk]]) 11:14, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
:Before 2006 the categorizations (including the associated labels) were rather limited. Eris did not become a 'dwarf planet' because we suddenly came up with the category and the word. Prior to 2006, we did not label it as such, because our understanding and vocabulary was more limited than it is today. It is a dwarf planet because it is round (and has been for billions of years) and has never cleared its neighborhood, which are things independent of our knowledge or understanding. The dwarf planets have been dwarf planets for billions of years. Note also that this means that the bodies that are currently dwarf-planet candidates are only candidates ''to us'' because of our limited knowledge about them; they are in fact either dwarf planets or not (we just don't know). --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:25, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

==Hand-coding==
Hey all :).

I'm dropping you a note because you've been involved in dealing with feedback from the [[Special:ArticleFeedbackv5|Article Feedback Tool]]. To get a better handle on the overall quality of comments now that the tool has become a more established part of the reader experience, we're undertaking a round of [[hand coding]] - basically, taking a sample of feedback and marking each piece as inappropriate, helpful, so on - and would like anyone interested in improving the tool to participate :).

You can code as many or as few pieces of feedback as you want: '''[[Wikipedia:Hand coding|this page]]''' should explain how to use the system, and there is a demo [http://toolserver.org/~grphack/aft/test.html here]. Once you're comfortable with the task, just drop me an email at {{nospam|okeyes|wikimedia.org}} and I'll set you up with an account :).

If you'd like to chat with us about the research, or want live tutoring on the software, there will be an [[m:IRC office hours|office hours]] session on Monday 17 December at [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=23&min=00&sec=0&day=17&month=12&year=2012 23:00 UTC] in {{channel|wikimedia-office}}. Hope to see some of you there! Thanks, [[User:Okeyes (WMF)|Okeyes (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Okeyes (WMF)|talk]]) 22:57, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

== move request for [[79360 Sila–Nunam]] ==

I opened a move request in [[Talk:79360_Sila–Nunam#Requested_move]]. You are receiving this notice beause you have made substantial changes to the article. --[[User:Enric Naval|Enric Naval]] ([[User talk:Enric Naval|talk]]) 15:31, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

== Nomination of [[Swadesh list of Lezgic languages]] for deletion ==
<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning orange.svg|48px|alt=|link=]]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article '''[[Swadesh list of Lezgic languages]]''' is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to [[Wikipedia:List of policies and guidelines|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]] or whether it should be [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deleted]].

The article will be discussed at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Swadesh list of Lezgic languages ]] until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion.  However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.<!-- Template:afd-notice --> — [[User:Aeusoes1|Æµ§œš¹]] <span title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">[[User talk:aeusoes1|<small><sub>[ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ]</sub></small>]]</span> 15:57, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

==The Space Barnstar==
{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" valign="top" | [[File:Space-Barnstar-1j.png|125px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: bottom; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Space Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: top; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | The Space Barnstar, for excellence in contributions to articles about outer space. Thank you for updating, expanding, and improving articles about space. [[User:Fotaun|Fotaun]] ([[User talk:Fotaun|talk]]) 01:15, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
|}
:Thanks! --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:24, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

== Likely and probably ==

Yes, 'it's very likely a...', as with '...most likely...', sounds okay to me. British speakers usually use 'likely' on its own as an adjective, preferring 'probably' for the one-word adverb. I've tried to stop altering it but sometimes I can't resist! You say Brown makes a distinction between them? [[User:Rothorpe|Rothorpe]] ([[User talk:Rothorpe|talk]]) 15:26, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
:Yes, take a look at the source: [http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/dps.html]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:01, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
::So 'likely' is more probable than 'probably'. I didn't know that. Thanks! [[User:Rothorpe|Rothorpe]] ([[User talk:Rothorpe|talk]]) 16:44, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

== Belgian Limburgish ==

Yeah, the term might not really be best. It's a synonym for Central Limburgish, as most Central Limburgish dialects are spoken in Belgian Limburg. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|OosWesThoesBes]] ([[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|talk]]) 11:58, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

== Venetian language ==
I think your edits about [[Venetian language|Venetian]] are sensible, nevertheless someone reverted my edits to [[Template:Romance languages|Romance languages template]]. Any idea how to fix it? Cheers--[[User:Carnby|Carnby]] ([[User talk:Carnby|talk]]) 20:04, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
:I don't know. I think linguist haven't completely figured out its exact classification. According to [[Italo-Dalmatian languages]] Venetian is part of that group. Maybe a solution could be to add languages that have such an uncertain classification to both groups and add a sign that says so. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:46, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

== Question ==
Hi JorisvS, could you please explain me [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Merkel_%28disambiguation%29&diff=543870300&oldid=543869853 this]? Thanks in advance, [[User:Jón|Jón]] [[User talk:Jón|<small><sub>+</sub></small>]] 16:26, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
:If a wikilink intentionally links to a disambiguation (dab) page, it should ''always'' point to "XXX (disambiguation)", even if the page itself is located at "XXX". This is for maintenance reasons: Most links to dab pages are unintentional and should be corrected. To easily identify which links are correct, intentional links to dab pages should be handled as I have described. See [[WP:DABNAME]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:35, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

:: Ok, could you please delete [[Merkel (disambiguation)]] and move [[Merkel]] there? My intention was that "Merkel" becomes a redirect to [[Angela Merkel]] (see [[Goethe]] --> [[Johann Wolfgang Goethe]]) as she is the one that you first think of hearing "Merkel". Thx, [[User:Jón|Jón]] [[User talk:Jón|<small><sub>+</sub></small>]] 16:40, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
:::No, I can't delete it, just like you. You'd have to ask an admin. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:42, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

==Article Feedback deployment==
Hey JorisvS; I'm dropping you this note because you've used [[WP:AFT5|the article feedback tool]] in the last month or so. On Thursday and Friday the tool will be down for a major deployment; it should be up by Saturday, failing anything going wrong, and by Monday if something does :). Thanks, [[User:Okeyes (WMF)|Okeyes (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Okeyes (WMF)|talk]]) 21:23, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

== [[Dravidian languages]] ==

I am not sure why you have a problem with the perfectly reasonable use of dialect and tongue or linguistic family as synonyms to avoid the rather unprofessional reuse of the word language repeatedly in the same sentence.  You haven't explained yourself.  I will report your next reversion as edit warring.  Please explain why these perfectly applicable words are such a problem for you, and offer an alternative instead of just reverting.  Thanks. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 21:27, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

:"Dialect" is wrong: dialects are mutually ''intelligible''. Languages are not. "Tongue" means the organ and is occasioanlly ''misused'' to mean language. I don't know what's "linguistic" about a language family; using this is imprecise. Reusing the word "language" is, in fact, ''professional'', because it is ''precise''. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 21:45, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

== Would you be interested in helping? ==

[[Talk:Sibilant#Brazilian_postalveolar_fricative]]

It seems people often think palatalized palato-alveolar ≠ alveolo-palatal. So Catalan and Brazilian Portuguese are grouped in a group that is not the same of Japanese and Mandarin. Though I think it is still notable that some may regard it as alveolo-palatal. One of them making the reasoning that the Brazilian palatalization differs from the Italian palato-alveolars, and theorizing a ''Tupi'' influence on the Portuguese of the early ''cabocla'' São Paulo that expanded it by migration. The other, clearly using different symbols for Brazilian and European Portuguese, and saying that the coda postalveolar /S/ of Brazil may either be palatalized lamino-alveolar and palatalized lamino-palatoalveolar. But Luizdl disagrees with describing it alveolo-palatal for the sake of simplicity (or doesn't believe at all that it is palatalized, in spite of two sources saying so). I already explained that, as I then already imagined, the East Asian and Iberian alveolopalatals were different on his talkpage on Portuguese Wikipedia, but discussion there wasn't productive and further inflamated the feel, with him saying in a not very subtle way I don't understand bollocks and that he doesn't really care what anglos agree with but I just won't put my bullshit in "his" wiki-pt... and he [http://pt.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Aproximante_palatal&action=history made it clear] that he meant so. Editing the sibilant article myself encompassing all views would be undue (or rather not...), and simply reverting him would perhaps make a [bigger] problem for me in the future. Thanks. [[User:Lguipontes|Lguipontes]] ([[User talk:Lguipontes|talk]]) 01:59, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
:What would you like me to do? What do you think should happen and what does this Luizdl want? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:55, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
::For you to give your opinion. I believe it should be mentioned that some languages have it as alveolo-palatals (Japanese and Mandarin) and other kinds of palatalized palato-alveolars (BP and Catalan), though I don't know if other Wikipedians would agree with such usage. I think he is skeptic and wanting to deny that those sounds in BP are "unusual" in any way (though the source he provided says that they don't mean that BP sC/zC/-s/-z, ti, di, x, j is your average European palato-alveolar, that it isn't even uniform across languages, just that those are closer to such sound than the Japanese – Canepari said that the East Asian alveolo-palatal has rounding and is articulated in a point very different to that of BP, so it isn't news in any way). [[User:Lguipontes|Lguipontes]] ([[User talk:Lguipontes|talk]]) 17:23, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
:::Well, I don't really have an opinion about something unless/until I am at least somewhat informed about it. [[wikt:AFAIK|AFAIK]] neither [[palato-alveolar consonant|palato-alveolars]] (palatalized palato-alveolars are actually a tautology, [[wikt:AFAICT|AFAICT]]) nor [[alveolo-palatal consonant|alveolo-palatals]] are uncommon/unusual. And neither is rounding, really, English palato-alveolars are typically somewhat rounded. There exists a whole continuum from alveolar through postalveolar to palatal (and on to velar etc.) and from subapical through apical and laminal to dorsal. A language's "(post)alveolar(s)" will be somewhere on this continuum, and to a certain extent this will be unique to the language (and then, of course, there is variability in it). For Wikipedia, it all comes down to what the sources say and, obviously, which sources appear to be the more reliable ones (and if there is a tie, we should report them both). Does this help you?--[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:02, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

::::Sorry, I know it, I was late for my check with a new doctor and I messed up postalveolar with palato-alveolar. Sometimes it is used in free variation, after all, and I believe that the source Luiz presented seems to treat them that way.
::::You can check the links on Aeusoes1' user page, the 3rd last section.
::::It seems people associate "true" alveolo-palatal only with a dorsal point of articulation. The symbols here in Wikipedia associated with alveolo-palatal articulations in general are used to Canepari to transcript Japanese and Mandarin, and he describes it as "bilabialized prepalatal". The Brazilian Portuguese, as the Catalan, postalveolar is the non-labialized palatalized lamino-postalveolar, what is pretty different, and it is perfectly reasonable for people to group it rather with European sh (though I believe the sound of Japanese better approximates our pronunciation than that of English or European Portuguese...).
::::Are you sure? I don't want to be reverted back again, and again, and again, anymore. I try to use Canepari here since, idk, September, and it never works. When the fellow editor Aeusoes1 agrees with me that it is reliable, Luiz appears and contradicts me. :/ [[User:Lguipontes|Lguipontes]] ([[User talk:Lguipontes|talk]]) 01:21, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
:::::Which source would I have to check? Although there seems to be some disagreement, the description of alveolo-palatals from the article seems to indicate that it is typically something like a prepalatal and between dorsal and laminal. Of course, truly dorsal postalveolars and laminal (pre)palatals are also possible (even apical velars are!). Before I make a judgment, I'd like to know what sources do we (you and Luizdl) have, what do they specifically say, and how they support their statements. What is the source Aeusoes has mentioned, the one that contradicts Canepari with formant data? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:06, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

::::::I slowed the rate of the debate as it is a bit intellectually expensive for me, and at day 28 I got a strong headache. xD
::::::The sources are the 5 or 6 links in the relatively recent section I created in Aeusoes1's userpage and the section Luizdl created on the article talkpage. '''Irrespectively of language''' used, together the 3 authors lead us to the conclusion that Brazilian Portuguese got a sibilant position different from both the European and East Asian ones; that Portuguese in general got a laminal postalveolar; that the difference of Brazilian Portuguese from European is that BP has it palatalized and non-labialized, while Euro has it non-palatalized and compressed. Luizdl's failed claim is based on the fact that the only source that uses formant data (of a single Brazilian speaker, from an area with an insular and conservative dialect, also fluent in English) uses the language laminal palato-alveolar for BP making it distinct from dorsal alveolo-palatal for Japanese (neither me nor Canepari never claimed it was the same of Japanese). Aeusoes1 agree on using Canepari. I endorse almost every bit of Canepari, it leads to the conclusions I defended for years here in Wikipedia but lead to the disbelief on my edits due to instances of OR. I don't know the opinion of you guys (Wikipedians other than Luizdl) if the source using formant data rules out the other two (Canepari and the other Brazilian) even if its language does not proposes the comparison we want, namely the disclaimer "we aren't saying European {{IPA|[ʃ]}} are all the same" after saying "Brazilian {{IPA|[ʃ]}} is mispronounced by the Japanese as {{IPA|[ɕ]}}". [[User:Lguipontes|Lguipontes]] ([[User talk:Lguipontes|talk]]) 09:00, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

== Bhojpuri edits ==

Hi, I raised an issue about user Mywikieditbh (aka 192.151.243.xxx) at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents# User:Mywikieditbh]] that initially concerned [[North India]] but I also added mention of the [[Bhojpuri language]] article and made a claim that you may wish to review for accuracy (since I wasn't personally involved in this article's editing). Also, have you had any luck communicating with this editor? Thank you. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 15:11, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

== in magnitude ==

Hello JorisvS,

I reverted one of your changes to the [[55 Pandora]] article because I find it common in the referenced academic papers for authors to write of a 'variation of X in magnitude'. I think the use of 'in' does a better job of indicating a range rather than a specific value. There was no offense intended. [[User:Praemonitus|Praemonitus]] ([[User talk:Praemonitus|talk]]) 18:48, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
:That way it doesn't have a proper unit. Variations in, for example, temperature are not indicated by "... in K". I've now changed it to be more clear and indicate a proper unit: "a brightness variation of ''Δm''=0.22 mag", which is the typical way other variations in physical quantities are indicated. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 20:18, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

== Moving [[KOI-172.02]] to [[Kepler-69c]] ==
Thanks for your help with moving [[KOI-172.02]] to [[Kepler-69c]] - *entirely* ok with me if you would like to complete the process ASAP - as well as with the related [[Talk:KOI-172.02]] to [[Talk:Kepler-69c]] - Thanks again for your help - and - Enjoy! :) [[User:Drbogdan|Drbogdan]] ([[User talk:Drbogdan|talk]]) 21:19, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
:Maybe you could look around for an admin and ask him/her to delete the pages that are in the way to move the three relevant articles. If I were an admin I would simply have done it myself. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:53, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
::Thanks for your comment - yes, may try <nowiki>{{help}}</nowiki> on [[Talk:Kepler-69c]] page & see - thanks again - Enjoy! :) [[User:Drbogdan|Drbogdan]] ([[User talk:Drbogdan|talk]]) 23:08, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
:::{{done}} - all now seems to be ok - thanks again for your help with this - it's *greatly* appreciated - enjoy! :) [[User:Drbogdan|Drbogdan]] ([[User talk:Drbogdan|talk]]) 00:23, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
::::{{Notdone}} You don't know how to move an article, do you? You simply recreated the article, making the delete USELESS. What you ''should'' do is use the <u>'move'</u> button at [[KOI-172.02]] to rename it to Kepler-69c. You should '''not''' copy-paste the contents under the new title. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:13, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
:::::Thanks for your correction - yes, procedure is new to me (my 1st time w/ this) - lesson learned - thanks again - enjoy! :) [[User:Drbogdan|Drbogdan]] ([[User talk:Drbogdan|talk]]) 11:38, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
::::::Try again '''[[User:Ronhjones|<span style="border:1px solid;color:#dfdfdf; padding:1px;background:#ffffdf"><span style="color:green;">&nbsp;Ron<span style="color:red;">h</span>jones&nbsp;</span></span>]]'''<sup>[[User talk:Ronhjones|&nbsp;(Talk)]]</sup> 22:51, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
:::::::Thanks for informing me. The page has been moved. {{Done}} --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 23:10, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
::::::::Excellent! - Thank you *very, very much* for *all* the help - it's *very much* appreciated - Thanks again - and - Enjoy! :) [[User:Drbogdan|Drbogdan]] ([[User talk:Drbogdan|talk]]) 23:27, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::Not a problem. ;) --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 23:29, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

==Terminology==
Please bear in mind the different nuances of 'Serbo-Croatian'; on one hand as a valid '''linguistic''' term pertaining to the fact that Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks share one and the same language, and on the other as a '''defunct''' official name of that language. In relation to the latter, Serbo-Croatian currently goes under three different '''official''' names or languages which are, once more, '''linguistically''' registers of that same language unitarily referred to as Serbo-Croatian, or BCS. The first-mentioned nuance certainly trumps the second in a purely scientific linguistic setting (which is the reason we have organized the different language articles the way we have), whereas the opposite is true in terms of politically correct naming as in article leads which are to conform with official statuses and not linguistic terms. The linguistic qualities of Bosnian, Serbian and Croatian should be, and are, hashed out in their respective articles which have all been made to converge at Serbo-Croatian. [[User:Praxis Icosahedron|Praxis Icosahedron]] ([[User talk:Praxis Icosahedron|talk]]) 00:49, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
:Wikipedia is not in the business of 'politically correct naming' sensitive issues. If it were, we wouldn't be having our article entitlted [[Serbo-Croatian]], but instead having it entitled using one of the bulky, cumbersome 'political correct' terms. So, instead of cluttering the lead with something like "Croatian: D, Bosnian: D, Serbian: Д" it is straightforward and much less cluttering (and not to mention far less misleading!) to simply put in "Serbo-Croatian: D/Д". Yes, some people from the Balkans take offense to seeing the term "Serbo-Croatian", just like some people will take offense to seeing depictions of Allah. These are not statements of political endorsement (as these people would think), but simply simple ''neutral'' descriptors/illustrations. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:36, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
::We are using the title Serbo-Croatian because it is the more common (still), and that title is in my opinion nowhere controversial as long as it is limited to being a linguistic term (and thus used in the proper context) and not the official language/label it misleadingly becomes if used to introduce articles on nations, states etc. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not an outlet to express dismay over the absurdities in the ethnic politics of the former Yugoslavia. Omitting the official standards/names from the lead is neither politically correct nor politically accurate, as it would not reflect the circumstances that do indeed exist (think of them what you will, fact remains it is not in our jurisdiction to introduce controversies where it is undue). As part of this, you are approaching the issue solely from a linguistic viewpoint, which is what I attempted to highlight above - in vain. You're not technically wrong, but you are failing to observe the two levels of authority I underline. Namely, that introducing an article without making any mention of potential official languages and/or names is absurd and misleading, and in the context of Serbo-Croatian that would basically equal writing that the official language of Serbia, Croatia or Bosnia is Serbo-Croatian (although not misleading or inaccurate in a linguistic sense, it is in every other). As I previously wrote you in an edit summary, ''this is not purely a linguistic issue, as three official languages indeed exist''. Any linguistic treatise on these three ill-conceived creatures sprung out of man's malice is appropriately confined to the relevant language articles where no one can mistake them for separate languages. I really can't find anything more to say. [[User:Praxis Icosahedron|Praxis Icosahedron]] ([[User talk:Praxis Icosahedron|talk]]) 10:00, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
::Do also note that Serbo-Croatian is appropriately used in articles whose primary topic is tied to the former Yugoslavia, such as the article on [[Josip Broz Tito]], because here such a terminology does not run the risk of becoming anachronistic. [[User:Praxis Icosahedron|Praxis Icosahedron]] ([[User talk:Praxis Icosahedron|talk]]) 10:13, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
:::"these three ill-conceived creatures sprung out of man's malice is appropriately confined to the relevant language articles where no one can mistake them for separate languages"–pretty much always can one mistake them for separate languages, and especially so if along each other in the way I illustrated above. Such a comment in the first sentence of an article is to inform readers about the term for the subject in the relevant ''language'', in this case that is '''Serbo-Croatian''', the native language of most of Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, and Montenegro. Croatian, Bosnian, and Serbian are not languages, but '''standardized lects'''. Unless the terms used in these lects are different, it is quite appropriate to simply use the term for the entire language, i.e. Serbo-Croatian. We are not the ones 'introducing controversies' by doing this. Wikipedia does not exist to serve the whimps of politics and emotion. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:32, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
::::"is to inform readers about the term for the subject in the relevant ''language''" - dead on, and we're back on square one. Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian are inarguably admitted [official] languages, with for instance different ISO-codes, '''but''' at the same time one and the same language. Hence, lo and behold, the two levels of meaning I've been stressing all along. There is informational value in both levels, and both are equally indispensable for understanding various aspects of the subject matter, whether political, ethnic, linguistic and so forth. There is a dual relevance, a dual significance, and a dual meaning, and none can be suppressed, that is, until a better term than "Serbo-Croatian" is presented or the three separate official "languages" cease to exist (we are almost looking at a form of synergy, one wouldn't exit without the other, really). The lead serves to  ''establish the subject, set the tone and guide the reader into the article'', needless to say the terminology used cannot be out of context. An option to resolving this dilemma could, occasionally, be to employ '''Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian''' which takes into account official distinctions while still underlining their common ground. It's been fun talking to you but I suspect we could go on like this forever, it's probably for the better to put an end to it here (for my part).[[User:Praxis Icosahedron|Praxis Icosahedron]] ([[User talk:Praxis Icosahedron|talk]]) 13:01, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
:::::They can't be both different languages and the same language. Language=group of mutually intelligible lects. Because BCS are all mutually intelligible, they are the same language. Specifically, they are all ''standardized'' lects of the same language. The language called Serbo-Croatian exists no matter what we call it (and even if we wouldn't give it any name). --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:17, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
::::::Serbo-Croatian is nowadays a linguistic term applied to the language of the Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks. That language is officially known/sanctioned as Serbian, Croatian '''or''' Bosnian. Serbo-Croatian is deprecated as an official descriptor and consequently limited to linguistic utilization or the proper time period. From a politic view, the decision by Croat and Serb linguists to renounce "Serbo-Croatian" is certainly harder to grasp than that of the Bosniaks, who were not represented by such a designation. '''''[[User:Praxis Icosahedron|<font color="grey" size="2px">Praxis Icosahedron</font>]]''''' ϡ - [[User talk:Praxis Icosahedron|<font color="FF9900">T</font><font color="FF9900">a</font><font color="FF9900">l</font><font color="FF9900">k</font>]] 12:44, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
:::::::Yes, in official blabla. But Wikipedia is not in the business of simply following such official blabla. It is simply the term used to indicate the West South Slavic language that is spoken in most of Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia and Montenegro, regardless of the official blabla. Consider the hypothetical situation where some government decides to officially to refer to [[special relativity|special]] and [[general relativity]] by different names and to consider them unrelated (instead of special relativity an approximation of general relativity for weak gravitational fields). We wouldn't follow them just because they have decided that, also not on topics related to that government's country. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:08, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
{{od}}
I'm afraid your metaphor is basically fallacious because it assumes that the names "Bosnian", "Serbian"  or "Croatian" are factually inaccurate (or even artificial or "made up") when in fact each of them predate "Serbo-Croatian" which was coined in the mid-19th century. Serbo-Croatian is a language with four names: S-C, C, B and S - Bosnian, Croatian are Serbian are the official and common names used as of today (with each of their articles having more monthly views than the one for S-C, and not to mention together) while Serbo-Croatian is limited to being a linguistic term. Criticizing the bulkiness of these three original and separate names would in its extremest sense involve criticizing Bosnia, Serbia and Croatia for being three separate states over the past 1000 years, and some outsiders might instinctively (and uncomprehendingly) feel it ought to be one state and one ethnic group gathered under one banner and name. The other faulty assumption is that the Serbs, Bosniaks and Croats would truly think of their languages as separate. Now "Balkanians" might be daft, but they surely do realize that they are speaking one and the same language only separated by longstanding ethnic distinctions. For that reason, the language is today (and indeed historically) known by three names with 'Serbo-Croatian' being a unitary linguistic term which previously and relatively briefly had enjoyed the status of also being an official and widely used name. An accurate metaphor would thus be the following: three old and separate universities exist ("A", "B" and "C") which at some point early in their history simultaneously (but still separately) make a scientific discovery which they name after themselves (A, B and C, respectively). Centuries pass when suddenly a unitary name for the discovery is suggested: "A-B" (with C left out for various reasons we need not to go into the detail of). The new term "A-B" is tentatively used for a couple of decades until the universities are merged into a unified institution ("Yugoslavia") where "A-B" soon becomes an official and widely used name of the discovery. However, due to unbridgeable differences between the ancient universities the unified institution quickly dissolves with the universities returning to being separate. Wanting to emphasize and underline their distinct heritages as separate universities (as opposed to any alleged fundamental difference in the discovery) they declare "A", "B" and "C" as names of the discovery, respectively. The revived names "A", "B" and "C" are thereafter proclaimed official names of the discovery and recognized by accredited institutions ("ISO-codes"). The language is therefore today called either Bosnian (C), Serbian (A) or Croatian (B) and not Serbo-Croatian (A-B), anything else is blatant disinformation. Serbo-Croatian consequently postulates usage in the proper context as to not overshadow the hard facts laid out above. I've said it a number of times now, but I'm currently too preoccupied to engage in polemy of this magnitude. Thank you. '''''[[User:Praxis Icosahedron|<font color="grey" size="2px">Praxis Icosahedron</font>]]''''' ϡ - [[User talk:Praxis Icosahedron|<font color="FF9900">T</font><font color="FF9900">a</font><font color="FF9900">l</font><font color="FF9900">k</font>]] 20:03, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

It finally also struck me that you wrote "We wouldn't follow them just because they have decided that", which is wrong because the supreme "We" in this regard (the International Organization for Standardization) does comply with the naming desired by the peoples in question. "We" is not ment to be original research carried out by wikipedians, not to mention that it is plain arrogant to write about the language of a people or state but refuse to refer to it by their collective agreement which is based on historically valid terminology in all three cases. '''''[[User:Praxis Icosahedron|<font color="grey" size="2px">Praxis Icosahedron</font>]]''''' ϡ - [[User talk:Praxis Icosahedron|<font color="FF9900">T</font><font color="FF9900">a</font><font color="FF9900">l</font><font color="FF9900">k</font>]] 21:25, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
:You've missed the point of my comparison. It's not about the names (that's why I didn't include any). Sure, Serbian, Croatian, and Bosnian history and the terms go back far further than the ''term'' Serbo-Croatian, but that does not matter. These peoples, with their sizeable history and distinct cultures, somehow do have a common language. This is most commonly termed "Serbo-Croatian", but, in principle, it does not matter which term is used. For all I care we'd use "Croatian", "Serbian", "Bosnian" or something like, say, "Sercrobos" for it, BUT we should be consistent: if we'd use "Croatian" for it, we should do so everywhere, which means the main language of Serbia would be "Croatian". I like your university comparison. There is still one difference with Serbo-Croatian: Serbian and especially Croatian are regularly declared separate languages (cf. universities A and B declaring their discoveries about distinct phenomena). Consider, then, the outside scientific world: They would look down upon the petty politics of these institutions. They would, of course, still deal with this subject and would mostly use some common name. This could well be "A–B" instead of technically proper "A–B–C" (this actually regularly happens in practice). However, even though somewhat different names may be used, never will these be considered distinct phenomena. Regarding Serbo-Croatian, this does happen, so we should be careful ''not to mislead people'' into believing that these are different languages, which they are not (all the history, official blabla, and misplaced emotions notwithstanding). --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:41, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
::I agree, all that should be done, '''however''' without compromising the relevant understanding that Serbo-Croatian is registered under its ethnic names given the numerous implications. Now we certainly want people to understand that Serbian, Bosnian and Croatian comprise one language, but while also avoiding giving the impression that "Serbo-Croatian" is an active name (it would for instance be awkward having people think Bosniaks call their language "S-C", now wouldn't it?). As for consistency, the approach is pretty clear-cut in topics relating to only one of the groups (such as ethnic articles) where using the ethnic language name is the only sensible measure. In articles concerning two or more of the groups I would choose "B/S/C" or, alternatively, expository notes underlining the virtual equality of the language"s". Historiographic articles are way trickier however, since history topics in the former Yugoslavia (and especially Bosnia) frequently involve three separate and not seldom conflicting historiographies (Bosniak, Serb and Croat) which often use different names or spellings with far-reaching implications on the interpretation of local history. Indicating the three languages is of necessity here due to different scholarships (in this sense, Yugoslavia had, as with everything else, one unified scholarship). Whatever the case, there can never remain any doubt as to by which names the language is called on the ground. Imagine introducing the article on Bosnia and Herzegovina with the name Serbo-Croatian, I would have to read through 7 sections of text before finding out that the language is officially known as Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian. Most people do not reach that far. Using B/S/C, or a directly attached expository note stating "Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian are standardized registers of one single language commonly termed Serbo-Croatian" is an uncompromising solution. <span style="font-family:matisse itc;">[[User:Praxis Icosahedron|<span style="color:grey; font-size:small;">Praxis Icosahedron</span>]]</span> ϡ <small>([[User talk:Praxis Icosahedron|<font color="black">TALK</font>]])</small> 23:56, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
:::Why would using "Serbo-Croatian" have to be awkward for Bosniaks? Compare the [[Flemish people|Flemish]], who speak Dutch, which is called ''Nederlands'' in Dutch, also in their own lects, even though they live in Belgium, not the Netherlands. Anyway, such an expository note looks quite appropriate, and better than writing B/C/S. I'm not sure what you mean by the three separate, conflicting historiographies, could you explain this to me? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:13, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
::::What I simply ment is that Bosniaks neither officially nor unofficially refer to their language as S-C, the same goes for most Serbs and Croats. Giving the impression they do is wrong, as it would be to suggest the Dutch to use the name Holland for the entire Netherlands. As for historiography, indicating different languages is more than just a linguistic issue, since it also informs which states/nations/peoples have part or claims in the given subject. Sometimes even purely different languages may for example use the same toponym for a common history-related topic but one wouldn't omit either. In this sense "Bosnian", "Serbian" and "Croatian" relates to the different statehoods (contemporary and historical alike) and ultimately the scholarships associated therewith, which are in addition often conflicting. Take for example the title Stephanos (meaning the crowned) which is translated as ''Stjepan'' in Bosnian and Croatian historiography, and as ''Stefan'' in the Serbian one. Stefan in this regard is used by the Serbian scholarship to claim affiliation to the Serbian Nemanjic dynasty, something which the Bosnian and Croatian scholarship rejects and instead uses the rendering Stjepan. Hence, simply writing ''Serbo-Croatian: Stefan/Stjepan'' would do little to facilitate the understanding. Since Yugoslavia was centralized in every possible sense, history was studied rather as a Yugoslav than Bosnian, Croatian or Serbian subject, and "Serbo-Croatian" symbolized that governmental unity and scholastic consensus, which would be anachronistic today. Anyways, these thoughts were just on a side note. <span style="font-family:matisse itc;">[[User:Praxis Icosahedron|<span style="color:grey; font-size:small;">Praxis Icosahedron</span>]]</span> ϡ <small>([[User talk:Praxis Icosahedron|<font color="black">TALK</font>]])</small> 14:48, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

== Definition of "Null" ==

Of possible interest re [[Kepler-69]] =><br>
''< ref name="Exo-20130422">"An entry of null means that no information was available for that parameter. In the example of KOI 172, some of the planetary and orbital parameters were calculated in the given reference (Barclay et al) but for the others, we enter a value of null." {{cite web |author=[http://exoplanetarchive.ipac.caltech.edu/cgi-bin/Helpdesk/nph-genTicketForm Exoplanet Archive team] |title=Exoplanet Help Desk |url=http://exoplanetarchive.ipac.caltech.edu/cgi-bin/Helpdesk/nph-genTicketForm |date=April 22, 2013 |publisher=[[CalTech]] EMail to [[User:Drbogdan|Drbogdan]] |accessdate=April 22, 2013 }}</ref><br>''
hope this helps - Enjoy! :) [[User:Drbogdan|Drbogdan]] ([[User talk:Drbogdan|talk]]) 19:20, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
:For me, yes. But I'd prefer something ref'able so we can put this in the article for all readers who see it and wonder what it is supposed to mean. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:23, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
::Your "?" edit for the [[Kepler-69#Planetary system|Kepler-69 table]] seems like a *very* good solution to me at the moment - yes, a [[WP:RS]] might be helpful as well - Enjoy! :) [[User:Drbogdan|Drbogdan]] ([[User talk:Drbogdan|talk]]) 21:06, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

==AFT5 re-enabled==
Hey JorisvS :). Just a note that [[WP:AFT5|the Article Feedback Tool, Version 5]] has now been re-enabled. Let us know on [[Wikipedia talk:Article Feedback Tool/Version 5|the talkpage]] if you spot any bugs. Thanks! [[User:Okeyes (WMF)|Okeyes (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Okeyes (WMF)|talk]]) 00:53, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

== Saraiki language ==
Dear, Saraiki is a language, it is not a dialect.  [[Riasti dialect]], [[Shah puri dialect]],[[ Multani dialect]], [[Multani language]], [[Thalochi dialect]], [[Thalochi]] ,[[Derawali dialect]]  articles. I suggest merging these articles , as the all these are same.  And also be Redirected to [[Saraiki language]]. Also [[Jhangvi dialect]] is dialect of Saraiki. Kindly See these External Links
[http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=skr #1] and [http://globalrecordings.net/en/language/16338 #2].
*Department of Saraiki, [[Islamia University]], Bahawalpur was established in 1989<ref>[http://www.iub.edu.pk/department.php?id=26 IUB.]</ref> and Department of Saraiki, [[Bahauddin Zakariya University]], Multan<ref>[http://www.bzu.edu.pk/departmentindex.php?id=33 Multan]</ref> was established in 2006. Saraiki is taught as subject in schools and colleges at higher secondary, intermediate and degree level. Allama Iqbal open university Islamabad,<ref>[http://www.aiou.edu.pk AIOU]</ref> and Al-Khair university Bhimbir have their Pakistani Linguistics Departments. They are offering M.Phil. and Ph.D in Saraiki. Five TV channels and Ten Radio Stations are Serving [[Saraiki language]]. [[Special:Contributions/182.186.116.104|182.186.116.104]] ([[User talk:182.186.116.104|talk]]) 12:51, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
::Your point? How does that prove anything either way? The same things are true of [[Serbian language|Serbian]], yet Serbian is not a language, but a standardized register of the language that is called [[Serbo-Croatian]]. I don't know enough about it to know either way, but [[WP:POINT|POINTy]] edits like [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Saraiki_dialect&diff=552263791&oldid=551933616 this] are unconstructive. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:03, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
{{reflist}}

== [[Tidal locking]] ==

Hello!

I notice that you are very interested in matters of language. So I was puzzled by a recent change of yours:

You changed
:"If the Moon didn't spin at all, then it would alternately show its near and far sides to the Earth while moving around our planet in orbit, as shown in the figure on the right."
to
:"If the Moon would not spin at all, it would alternately show its near and far sides to the Earth while moving around our planet in orbit, as shown in the figure on the right."

If your intent were to convert the sentence to use past subjunctive mood to express the counterfactual nature of the set condition, your rewording was not the proper way of doing it. Modern colloquial English appears mostly to have lost the subjunctive, which apparently has, to young ears, a somewhat stilted or archaic sound. I had made a deliberate choice to use indicative form (which to my old ears, sounds somewhat sloppy and imprecise) in deference to what I perceive to be modern usage.

Proper rewordings would include past subjunctive 
:"If the Moon were not to spin at all, [then] it would alternately show its near and far sides to the Earth while moving around our planet in orbit, as shown in the figure on the right."
or the past continuous
:"If the Moon were not spinning at all, [then] it would alternately show its near and far sides to the Earth while moving around our planet in orbit, as shown in the figure on the right."

I have revised the sentence to use the past continuous form of the subjunctive, so perhaps we can both be happy. [[User:Stigmatella aurantiaca|Stigmatella aurantiaca]] ([[User talk:Stigmatella aurantiaca|talk]]) 10:17, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

== [[Languages of the Balkans]] ==

[[Arbëresh language]] is not only spoken by Albanian communities in [[Italy]], it is also spoken in [[Croatia]], by the Arbanasi community in [[Zadar]]. <span style="font-family:Broadway; font-size: 12pt">'''[[User:Ammartivari|ATivari]]'''</span><span style="font-family:Broadway; font-size: 8pt"><sub>[[User_talk:Ammartivari|talk]]</sub></span> 13:47, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
:Says who? There is no mention of such a community on Arbëresh language. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

== A kitten for you! ==

[[File:Iris cat.jpg|left|150px]]
yo

[[User:Fatum81|Fatum81]] ([[User talk:Fatum81|talk]]) 02:24, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
<br style="clear: both;"/>
:Thanks. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:10, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

==Cookies==
{| style="background-color: #white; border: 3px solid blue"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Christmas Cookies Plateful.JPG|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Here's a plate full of cookies to share!'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Hi {{PAGENAME}}, here are some delicious cookies to help brighten your day! However, there are too many cookies here for one person to eat all at once, so please share these cookies with at least two other editors by copying {{tls|Sharethecookies}} to their talk pages. Enjoy! <span style="font-family:matisse itc;">[[User:Praxis Icosahedron|<span style="color:grey; font-size:small;">Praxis Icosahedron</span>]]</span> ϡ <small>([[User talk:Praxis Icosahedron|<font color="black">TALK</font>]])</small> 18:59, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
|}

== Please do not delete my edits ==

Please do not delete edits from other editors without a reasonable explanation. "ridiculous" is not a reasonable explanation. Thanks  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Booklaunch|Booklaunch]] ([[User talk:Booklaunch|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Booklaunch|contribs]]) 21:19, 13 May 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:They're unconstructive edits with ridiculous edit summaries for every sane person to see, so I and other constructive editors will revert them. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 21:32, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
:Documentation: This refers to [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Minor_planet&diff=prev&oldid=554940448], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hydrostatic_equilibrium&diff=prev&oldid=554940756], and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Small_Solar_System_body&diff=554940921&oldid=548382042]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:22, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

== Brackets at Bulgarian language ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=555079940 your edit] to [[Bulgarian language]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry, just [{{fullurl:Bulgarian language|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20-%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
{{{!}} class="navbox collapsible collapsed" style="text-align: left; border: 1px solid silver; margin-top: 0.2em;" {{!}}-
! style="background-color: #FAA;" {{!}} <div style="font-size:112%;">List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page</div>    
{{!}}-
{{!}} style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white; " {{!}} <div style="font-size:112%;">
*<nowiki>|lingua=53-AAA-hb </nowiki>{{red|'''&#60;'''}}<nowiki> [[South Slavic languages|53-AAA-h]]</nowiki>
*<nowiki> is "Saraevo" ([[:bg:Сараево]]), although  [[Jelena Janković]] is "Yelena" – [[:bg:Йелена Янкович]]</nowiki>{{red|'''&#41;'''}}<nowiki>.</nowiki>
*<nowiki>the addition of the suffix –н (прочита'''н''', '[been] read'); убивa'''н''', '[been] being killed'</nowiki>{{red|'''&#41;'''}}<nowiki>; it is used predicatively and attributively;</nowiki>
*<nowiki>way to form adverbs is to derive them from the neuter singular form of the corresponding adjective </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>бързо (fast), силно (hard), странно (strange), although adjectives ending in -ки use the masculine</nowiki>
*<nowiki>:</nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>lit. "To us ''to us'' it-is cold, and to you-plur. ''to you-plur.'' it-is warm"</nowiki>
*<nowiki>* </nowiki>{{red|'''&#91;'''}}<nowiki>Vittore Pisani. Old Bulgarian Language. Sofia, 2012  [http://www.scribd.com/doc/107841186/Vittore-</nowiki>
</div>
{{!}}}Thanks, <!-- (-1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 17:06, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
:{{Done|All valid instances fixed}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:16, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

== "[[Khuzestani Arabic]]" ==

Please present some linguistic literature which describes the Arabic spoken in Khuzestan as a subvariety in its own right. It is treated as Mesopotamian Arabic and is indistinguishable from the Arabic spoken in southern Iraq. [http://www.llmap.org/languages/acm.html]

Simply because somebody created a stub named "Khuzestani Arabic" doesn't make it a recognized subvariety. I could create an unreferenced stub named "Najafi Arabic" but it wouldn't make the Arabic spoken in [[Najaf]] a subvariety. "Khuzestani Arabic" is only ever spoken of in an Iranian context when discussing Persian in relation to the Arabic of Khuzestan.

I'm not even sure that somebody from [[Ahvaz]] presents with any accent to somebody from [[Basra]]h, much less a unique dialect. Moreover, the Arabic spoken in [[Khuzestan Province]] isn't a homogenous entity to speak of; you have cities like [[Khorramshahr]] and [[Abadan]] on the opposite side of border with Iraq, and you have cities like [[Ahvaz]] and [[Dezful]] in the center and north of the province.

If you have literature which says otherwise then please present it as it will be of interest to me. [[User:Irānshahr|Irānshahr]] ([[User talk:Irānshahr|talk]]) 12:52, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
:I suggest that you take it to the Khuzestani Arabic talk page and possibly mention the issue at, say, [[Talk:Varieties of Arabic]] to get more input. Your points may be valid (I wouldn't know) and should be sorted out there. However, as long as there's an article on it, it should remain in [[Template:Varieties of Arabic|the template]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:15, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

== Bhojpuri language ==

Bhojpuri language is more similar to Awadhi, Braj and Hindi than Magahi or Maithili. And actually i'm unable to provide any citation due to lack of proper categorisation and consideration by authorities and so there's no published record. But if you want, i can prove my point.. Better let me do.
For example, if i've to say, "What is you name?" in bhojpuri, it'd be, "tahaar naam kaa ha?" in awadhi, it is, "tahaar naam kaa hai?" in hindi, it is, "tumhara naam kya hai?" in braj, it is, "tahaar naam kaa hai", and in magadhi, it is "tor naam ki helthi?" in maithili, it'd be, "aahank naam ki chhe?". Now decision is all upon you.
And one thing, if there's no evidence on a particular point on net then the view of native speaker can be, should be and must be accepted.
Thanks.
[[User:Mywikieditbh|Mywikieditbh]] ([[User talk:Mywikieditbh|talk]]) 14:45, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
:If it is true, then why is it so hard for you people to find a reliable source to support your claim, ''as required by Wikipedia's policy''? Wikipedians are not reliable sources, so neither are you. And don't refer to the authorities, because a) they are not a reliable source for classification issues anyway, b) scientific sources (i.e. the only ones that are reliable with respect to classification) do not conform to authorities, and c) they group it under Hindi in the censes. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:00, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

== Croatian ==

You've already been informed of [[WP:ARBMAC]], so you should know that [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hrvatski_%28disambiguation%29&curid=674429&diff=560576860&oldid=494120631 this] is unacceptable - the first part of the diff may be fine, but the [[scare quotes]] are plain old tendentious in that context. --[[User:Joy|Joy &#91;shallot&#93;]] ([[User talk:Joy|talk]]) 21:59, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
:They were already used for the first mention of "Croatian". The ones I added were for the same purpose. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:55, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
::First instance is the translation of the word, so it's not the same. But maybe Joy  needs to AGF. — [[User:Lfdder|Lfdder]] ([[User talk:Lfdder|talk]]) 23:11, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
:::Yeah, well, maybe not quite the same, but still similar. There are a bunch of ways people could use "Croatian language", none of which are akin to how people could use, say, "Slovene language" or "Spanish language" (well, many Croatians would like that it could, but reality is at odds with this wish). I added them to indicate this kind of usage, which mirrors ''hrvatski''. If you know a better way to signal this, then please. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:18, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
::::I've added the description we use in the lede in [[Croatian language]] in parentheses. — [[User:Lfdder|Lfdder]] ([[User talk:Lfdder|talk]]) 10:01, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::Thanks. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:08, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

::: This is hardly the first time I've seen JorisvS use Serbo-Croatian as opposed to Croatian/Bosnian/Serbian, and I have indeed assumed good faith, both then and now. Yet, the later comment is indicative that my assessment of inappropriate negative bias in the scare quores is correct. The article used the term "Croatian language" in a way that was perfectly legitimate and completely orthogonal to whatever one may think about its elevation beyond the notion of a standard language. Using scare quotes in that context was an entirely unnecessary digression that amounted to a trivial piece of flamebait in the context of the unending drama surrounding this topic. The standard of behavior in this topic area is supposed to be higher than that. --[[User:Joy|Joy &#91;shallot&#93;]] ([[User talk:Joy|talk]]) 20:21, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
::::As I've said above, legitimate uses not withstanding, there is a distinction in meaning. We should not withhold that from our readers. Lfdder's edit makes this clearer and so is better. Nevertheless, it could be improved further, because an ethnicity-based [[paraphyly|paraphyletic]] grouping of Serbo-Croatian dialects is also called "Croatian". Also note that using "Serbo-Croatian" instead of the [[euphemism|euphemistic]] "Croatian/Bosnian/Serbian" to refer to the language is perfectly good, precise English usage. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:08, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::I think they meant only one of Bosnian / Croatian / Serbian, not they 'euphemistic' BCS for Serbo-Croatian. — [[User:Lfdder|Lfdder]] ([[User talk:Lfdder|talk]]) 11:15, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
::::::Well, then I'd like to add that it is misleading to use only one of them in a sentence where it remains as true when using 'Serbo-Croatian' instead (like the one the page in question had before my first edit). It singles out one part of a language (standard language or paraphyletic grouping) where such singling out is not warranted. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:29, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

== Do you speak Arabic? ==

Hello,

I frequently get people who are requesting help, but have sources in various languages, and so I have to direct them to native speakers of the language when the Machine Translations are not good enough. So do you speak arabic? If so, can I bring some Arabic sources to you ever now and then for help with translation?

Thanks,
[[User:TheOriginalSoni|TheOriginalSoni]] ([[User talk:TheOriginalSoni|talk]]) 08:42, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

p.s. I suggested the user below to contact you. I hope you don't mind. [[User:TheOriginalSoni|TheOriginalSoni]] ([[User talk:TheOriginalSoni|talk]]) 08:53, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
:No, I don't speak Arabic. What makes you think I would? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:02, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
:: Your name showed up in the Users who have the Ar-4 userboxes under their subpages. [[User:TheOriginalSoni|TheOriginalSoni]] ([[User talk:TheOriginalSoni|talk]]) 13:17, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
:::You should check the page before rushing to the talk page. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:59, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
:::: And you should not have all the babel userboxes on your sub-page. Editors frequently use those categories to find other editors who speak the language under question. I request you remove those unnecessary userboxes, or subst them. [[User:TheOriginalSoni|TheOriginalSoni]] ([[User talk:TheOriginalSoni|talk]]) 14:03, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::Why do you rush to someone's talk page before even ''looking'' at the page?? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:08, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::: It was an honest enough assumption/mistake that any editor who has that userbox on a sub-page named userboxes (or boxes) would be speaking the language. Thats the standard all Wikipedia editors I've encountered use (Either the User page or a subpage named userbox). I request you remove the entire list or subst them to not cause any further confusion. [[User:TheOriginalSoni|TheOriginalSoni]] ([[User talk:TheOriginalSoni|talk]]) 14:14, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::::Well, I don't need that page in those categories (and prefer it not to be), but if I subst the templates, then the page won't be updated when a template is. Is there another way to not have these categorize my page? I tried [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AJorisvS%2Fboxes%2FBabel&diff=561365468&oldid=453672545 this], but that doesn't seem to work. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:29, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::::: I've asked another user who might know. Also, many of the templates I see are broken anyways. Substing might be a way to make sure more of them dont get broken. I'm still exploring the no-category option though.. [[User:TheOriginalSoni|TheOriginalSoni]] ([[User talk:TheOriginalSoni|talk]]) 14:35, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
{{od}}
Try nocat=true than nocat=1 [[User:TheOriginalSoni|TheOriginalSoni]] ([[User talk:TheOriginalSoni|talk]]) 14:37, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
: {{Tps}} Okay, so I went through and applied it for you and "most" of the categories have gone away... The rest of them will need the templates checked to make sure there is a line that reads:
:: <code><nowiki>|nocat = {{{nocat|<noinclude>true</noinclude>}}}</nowiki></code>
: Let me know if you need help with that and I'll see what I can do. [[User:Technical 13|Technical 13]] ([[User talk:Technical 13|talk]]) 14:52, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
::'''Thanks'''! --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:06, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

== Request for help on an article ==

Hi, i wrote an article with 2 references in arabic that was thought to be an advert. Want you to check it and see if you can approve it coz this is an informative article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Rashwe.com I understood from wikipedia help that issue is that this refernce is thought to be an advert. reference 3 and 6 is in question
thanks  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rabsfeir|Rabsfeir]] ([[User talk:Rabsfeir|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Rabsfeir|contribs]]) 08:47, 24 June 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:a) I don't speak Arabic. b) Doesn't really seem to be my area of interest here on WP. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:05, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

== Serbian/Croatian ==

On this Wikipedia hard to offend some people and their national languages, ignoring the facts and international documents.
The fact that the Serbian and Croatian two different standard languages, here it does not matter how big the difference is, it deals with linguistics. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/109.227.18.219|109.227.18.219]] ([[User talk:109.227.18.219|talk]]) 17:17, 24 June 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Sure (Standard) Serbian and and (Standard) Croatian and two different/distinct standard languages. They are, however, not different enough from ''each other'' to make them part of distinct languages altogether. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:11, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

== You're wrong ==

My name is Mark Mreza, I'm a linguist, I'll explain why you're wrong:
#Serbo-Croatian is not language, it's dialect system. It dialect system consisting of four languages: Serbian language, Croatian language, Bosnian language and Montenegrin language. Dialectal system and language are not the same concepts. These are the different languages that were closer together politically, after disintegration of Yugoslavia they are again politically distancing.
The younger generation have significant communication problems, these languages are as different as the Scandinavian languages, Czech and Slovak, Bulgarian and Macedonian.
#English language has spread from the UK to the U.S., Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and there has developed in different variants.

Contact:
Institute of Language and Linguistics
http://ihjj.hr/kontakt/
--[[Special:Contributions/95.168.98.98|95.168.98.98]] ([[User talk:95.168.98.98|talk]]) 17:07, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
:If you're a linguist, you should know the following: Most, if not all, languages are collections mutually intelligible dialects or "dialect systems". The four 'languages' you give are all based on subdialect of a collection of speech varieties or "dialect" that is called [[Shtokavian dialect|Shtokavian]]. Collections of speech varieties (dialects) that are less closely related to those are called [[Chakavian dialect|Chakavian]], [[Kajkavian dialect|Kajkavian]], and [[Torlakian dialect|Torlakian]]. Together these four dialects are called "Serbo-Croatian". You should also be familiar with the typical rate languages change and how quickly they could change: two decades is not enough to create separate languages. You should also understand that languages are ''not'' political things and hence politics are irrelevant.
:Moreover, you should be familiar with the bunch of words that are different in (some of) these standardized speeches called "Serbian", "Croatian", "Bosnian", and "Montenegrin", the myriad of words that are identical in all of them. You should also be familiar with their near-identical grammars and that the differences that do exist are marginal. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:23, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

== Crosswind kite power ==

Thank you for the edit in the article [[Crosswind kite power]]. Many editors are building the young article. Any help is good. Thanks.   On the matter of "fly crosswind"  versus "fly in crosswind"   ... please consider.   The systems do not fly "in" crosswind, but rather "fly crosswind".   Expanding, the systems have wings that are either passively or actively controlled to fly wings not in the ambient downwind direction, but rather controlled actively or passively to fly in a manner that ends up that the motion of the wing tracks across the ambient wind line to form a new "apparent wind" experience just at the wing itself; the new apparent wind is greater than the ambient wind.    So, would you mind please reverting your edit and leave "fly crosswind"  ... thanks. I will be noticing your change or not in the history.  Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/68.123.233.218|68.123.233.218]] ([[User talk:68.123.233.218|talk]]) 21:21, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
I was in the text and changed it without the "in" already, but aim still to be polite with you. What say you? Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/68.123.233.218|68.123.233.218]] ([[User talk:68.123.233.218|talk]]) 21:31, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
:Well, "fly" is an intransitive verb and the only transitive-like use I can find is in something like 'fly an airplane'. The intended difference in meaning is interesting, but is not clear from saying 'fly crosswind' instead of 'fly in crosswind'. I'm wondering about the physical mechanism behind the difference you describe, which would be an important addition to the article. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 21:42, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
:: Thanks. Something to think about in your grammar offering here, Joris. "How do we fly; do we "fly wings crosswindingly" or do we "fly crosswind"  ... "fly crosswindingly" ?    We do fly wings so the result is that the apparent wind experienced at the wing is cross to the ambient wind.   Joris, would it then be more correct: "fly crosswindingly"  which adverb seems rare?  Thanks for your moment.   [[Special:Contributions/68.123.233.218|68.123.233.218]] ([[User talk:68.123.233.218|talk]]) 22:05, 28 June 2013 (UTC)  Or maybe:  "fly the wing to achieve crosswind advantages"  ? [[Special:Contributions/68.123.233.218|68.123.233.218]] ([[User talk:68.123.233.218|talk]]) 22:07, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
:::The only adverbial form of "crosswind" I can think of is "in crosswind". "Crosswindingly" is not correct English. When there is a wing in crosswind in steady-state, then the wing must experience an effective force perpendicular to the crosswind, otherwise it would not be steady-state, but change its flight direction. So, why would "fly in crosswind" be less accurate (it does not say "experience crosswind", after all)? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:18, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
: So, Joris, does a comma come after "i.e." or not?  My reference for having the comma is http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_there_a_comma_after_ie_in_a_sentence     If I noticed your edit, you wanted the comma off. Is that a Wikipedia style preference?  Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/68.123.233.218|68.123.233.218]] ([[User talk:68.123.233.218|talk]]) 22:36, 28 June 2013 (UTC)  And more strongly: http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/ie-eg-oh-my.aspx   where she finds "five of six" style guides requiring the comma after the "i.e." use. She directs not to italicize, as the Latin abbreviation has come to be common English.   The WP:MOS ... I could not find the comma in question yet.  [[Special:Contributions/68.123.233.218|68.123.233.218]] ([[User talk:68.123.233.218|talk]]) 22:50, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

==Merge discussion for [[ Martian Gullies ]]==

[[Image:Information.svg|25px]] An article that you have been involved in editing, [[ Martian Gullies ]], has been proposed for a [[Help:Merging and moving pages|merge]] with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going {{ #if: Talk:Seasonal flows on warm Martian slopes#Merger proposal  |[[ Talk:Seasonal flows on warm Martian slopes#Merger proposal |here]]|to the article and clicking on the (Discuss) link at the top of the article}}, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. [[User:BatteryIncluded|BatteryIncluded]] ([[User talk:BatteryIncluded|talk]]) 17:13, 11 July 2013 (UTC) <!-- Template:mergenote -->
== August 2013 ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=568225743 your edit] to [[4015 Wilson–Harrington]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry, just [{{fullurl:4015 Wilson–Harrington|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20-%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
*<nowiki>an [[Apollo asteroid]] (with the designation ''4015 Wilson–Harrington'') and a periodic [[comet]] </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>then known as ''Comet Wilson–Harrington'' or ''107P/Wilson–Harrington''. It was initially</nowiki>
Thanks, <!-- (1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 15:59, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
:{{Done|Fixed}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:10, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

==Mother ship==

'SpaceShipOne connected to its mother ship White Knight' <-That is not ok. The edit that I made to the page was the following: 'SpaceShipOne connected to its companion ship White Knight.' User JorisvS reverted that to the bad original, and yeah that's about all to say.  <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:SpecialPiggy|SpecialPiggy]] ([[User talk:SpecialPiggy|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/SpecialPiggy|contribs]]) 16:02, 23 August 2013 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:[[Mother ship]] is a perfectly normal term for that. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:09, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for September 11==

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited [[Albedo]], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page [[LEED]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Albedo|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Albedo|fix with Dab solver]]). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the [[User:DPL bot/Dablink notification FAQ|FAQ]]{{*}} Join us at the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|DPL WikiProject]].</small>

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:{{Notdone|Not fixed yet}}. That was, unfortunately, intentional. If anyone can disambiguate it, that would be great. I have already tagged it for that purpose. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:00, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
:{{Done|Fixed}}. Someone has fixed it. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:17, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

==Hyphens==
Please stop moving pages and rendering them with improper hyphenation. [[Information technology consulting]], for instance, is not hyphenated "information-technology consulting" because it refers to a branch of consulting having to do with the field of [[information technology]]. —'''''[[User:Eustress|Eustress]]''''' <sup>''[[User talk:Eustress|talk]]''</sup> 02:49, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
:Your description is accurate: It is (information technology) consulting, not information (technology consulting). Technically, terms that should be parsed in the former way should be hyphenated to indicate that it should not be parsed in the latter way. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:56, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

==[[Dialects of Macedonian|Macedonian dialects]]==
Part of them are spoken on Bulgarian territory, i.e. they are also recognized by neutral linguists as Bulgarian dialects. Regards.[[User:Jingiby|Jingiby]] ([[User talk:Jingiby|talk]]) 13:19, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
:The article is about dialects of ''Macedonian'', not about dialects of Bulgarian. If they are Bulgarian dialects, they should not be covered by that article, if they are not (but instead Macedonian, given the isoglosses, not the political borders), then the article should cover them. In both cases, the category [[:Category:Dialects of the Bulgarian language]] is inappropriate, because the article is simply not about dialects of Bulgarian. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:27, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
::Part of them are both: Bulgarian and Macedonian dialects. There is no linguistic border between the eastern Macedonian dialects and southwestern Bulgarian-including those in Greece, i.e. part of them are transitional and the eastern most simply Bulgarian. [[User:Jingiby|Jingiby]] ([[User talk:Jingiby|talk]]) 14:00, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
:::Still, the article title constrains the topic so as to exclude that category. They are also covered at [[Bulgarian dialects]], where that category is appropriate and [[:Category:Dialects of the Macedonian language]] is inappropriate, given the article titles. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:48, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
::::OK! [[User:Jingiby|Jingiby]] ([[User talk:Jingiby|talk]]) 17:23, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

== [[Cyrillic script]] ==

I will be returning to look at your revisions in the morning as it is late in the evening here in Australia and I simply don't have the time or the energy to dispute the issues at the moment. Nor do I wish to provoke an edit war which appears to be what you are pushing for. At a glance, your attempts to 'improve' the language are as illiterate as that which you are improving on (although 'type' was correct: I didn't look at the full context immediately). You need to be aware of punctuation as you keep omitting comas. Further to that, don't change 'since' to 'because' as the first word of a new paragraph. Sentences should not be started with a conjunction, etc. If you need to retain the form of the sentence, use 'as'. It is far less obtrusive. More in the morning.

Is English your native language? --[[User:Iryna Harpy|Iryna Harpy]] ([[User talk:Iryna Harpy|talk]]) 10:49, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
:I'm not looking for an edit war (I never am), but when my edits are reverted for the wrong reasons, I tend to revert the revert. "Since" at the start of a sentence is just as much a conjunction as "because". Because with this meaning "because" and "since" are equivalent and "since" has other meanings (so does "as"), whereas "because" does not, "because" is preferable. The story of "while" vs. "whereas" or "although" is similar. I haven't omitted any commas: I haven't removed nor added any. As for "which" vs. "that", "which" is correct in those instances, but so is "that". Because "that" makes it easier to notice that these are restrictive clauses, "that" is preferable. To sum up: None are wrong, but there are better alternatives available. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:29, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

::I'm not interested in edit wars, either. Neither do I see that it is an issue to be relegated to our personal pages. My main concern is less for the grammar than the integrity of the article itself. Please go to the [[Talk:Cyrillic_script#Un-muddying_the_Cyrillic_alphabet_soup_section|Cyrillic script talk page]] to continue discussing the issues that ARE relevant. Thanks. --[[User:Iryna Harpy|Iryna Harpy]] ([[User talk:Iryna Harpy|talk]]) 05:33, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

== Books and Bytes: The Wikipedia Library Newsletter ==

<div style="border: 2px dashed #ADC2E4; margin: 1px; padding: 1em 2% 1em">
<center><big><big><big>'''''[[Wikipedia:The_Wikipedia_Library/Newsletter/October2013|Books and Bytes]]'''''</big></big></big>
<p>Volume 1, Issue 1, October 2013
<p>[[File:Eurasian_Eagle-Owl_Maurice_van_Bruggen.JPG|100px]]
<p>by {{user|The Interior}}, {{user|Ocaasi}}
<big>'''Greetings [[WP:TWL|Wikipedia Library]] members!'''</big>  Welcome to the inaugural edition of ''Books and Bytes'', TWL’s monthly newsletter. We're sending you the first edition of this opt-in newsletter, because you signed up, or applied for a free research account:  HighBeam, Credo, Questia, JSTOR, or Cochrane.  To receive future updates of ''Books and Bytes'', please add your name to [[Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library/Newsletter/Recipients|the subscriber's list]].  There's lots of news this month for the Wikipedia Library, including new accounts, upcoming events, and new ways to get involved...
<p>'''New positions:''' Sign up to be a Wikipedia Visiting Scholar, or a Volunteer Wikipedia Librarian</p>
<p>'''Wikipedia Loves Libraries:''' Off to a roaring start this fall in the United States: 29 events are planned or have been hosted.</p>
<p>'''New subscription donations:''' Cochrane round 2; HighBeam round 8; Questia round 4... Can we partner with NY Times and Lexis-Nexis??</p>
<p>'''New ideas:'''  OCLC innovations in the works; VisualEditor Reference Dialog Workshop; a photo contest idea emerges</p>
<p>'''News from the library world:''' Wikipedian joins the National Archives full time; the Getty Museum releases 4,500 images; CERN goes CC-BY</p>
<p>'''Announcing WikiProject Open:'''  WikiProject Open kicked off in October, with several brainstorming and co-working sessions</p>
<p>'''New ways to get involved:''' Visiting scholar requirements; subject guides; room for library expansion and exploration</p>
<p><big>[[Wikipedia:The_Wikipedia_Library/Newsletter/October2013|Read the full newsletter]]</big></p><br>
''Thanks for reading!  All future newsletters will be '''opt-in''' only. Have an item for the next issue? Leave a note for the editor on the [[Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library/Newsletter/Suggestions|Suggestions page]]. --[[User:The Interior|The Interior]] 20:45, 27 October 2013 (UTC)''
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<!-- EdwardsBot 0651 -->

== November 2013 ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=580429482 your edit] to [[Kepler-37]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:Kepler-37|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
*<nowiki>494..452B }}</ref> It has a temperature similar to that of the Sun, but a bit cooler at 5,417 </nowiki>{{red|'''&#91;'''}}<nowiki>[Kelvin|K]. It has about half the [[metallicity]] of our Sun.  With an age of roughly 6 billion</nowiki>
*<nowiki>to rule out other astronomical phenomenon mimicking planetary transit with probabilities of error </nowiki>{{red|'''&#60;'''}}<nowiki>0.05% (3σ) for each potential planet.  Additionally, simulation demonstrated that the proposed</nowiki>
Thanks, <!-- (0, 1, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 09:55, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
:{{Done|Fixed}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 12:04, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=581767884 your edit] to [[Laminal consonant]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:Laminal consonant|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
*<nowiki>called "[[retroflex]]" but are properly [[alveolar consonant|alveolar]] or [[postalveolar]]</nowiki>{{red|'''&#41;'''}}<nowiki>. [[Malayalam language|Malayalam]] has a three-way distinction between laminal dental, apical</nowiki>
Thanks, <!-- (-1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 13:37, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
:{{Done|Fixed}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:39, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

== Epstein-Barr virus pages ==
Hello there. Can you please help me fix the nomenclature in the Epstein-Barr virus pages that you edited? For Epstein-Barr virus the accepted nomenclature is to use a hyphen not a dash between Epstein and Barr.{{cite web |url=http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monographs/vol100B/mono100B-6.pdf |title=Epstein-Barr Virus |author=<!--Staff writer(s); no by-line.--> |date= |website= |publisher= |accessdate=12 November 2013}} Likewise, the titles for the EBV non-coding RNA pages you changed were originally taken from the nomenclature in published literature and the only dashes should be in "Epstein-Barr" and nowhere else:
For example, [[Epstein-Barr virus stable intronic sequence RNAs]] is taken from Ref. 4 in that page (I'm the co-discoverer, along with [[Joan Steitz]], of these RNAs). Even if there should be dashes in the RNA's name (grammatically speaking) I think it's best to leave them out to remain in line with the published scientific literature. I've been trying to change the titles back by moving the pages, but I think I ended up duplicating the ebv-sisRNA page. I'd appreciate your help fixing this. Thank you!
[[User:Walternmoss|Walternmoss]] ([[User talk:Walternmoss|talk]]) 16:03, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
:This is not a matter of COMMONNAME, but of proper punctuation (which need not follow the publications, because they are regularly sloppy in this regard). The Epstein–Barr virus is named after two different people, and should therefore be dashes, not hyphenated. A distinction between an endash and a hyphen is not always made in publications. The hyphens I added are for proper parsing of the meaning: e.g. a [[large-cell carcinoma]] is a carcinoma consisting of large cells (because the hyphen indicates that "large" refers to "cell"), whereas "large cell carcinoma" would be a cell carcinoma (whatever that would be) that is large. In specialist literature hyphens in such specialist terms are regularly omitted because specialists are expected to be familiar with them, and hence expected to be able to easily recognize them regardless of a hyphen. However, Wikipedia is a general-audience encyclopedia, where readers cannot be expected to be familiar with the terms, nor be expected to simply parse the terms correctly (for all they know a cell carcinoma could be something that exists). Therefore, to aid our readers in understanding, we should add hyphens wherever they are appropriate. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:26, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
::Thank you for the detailed explanation. However, I respectfully disagree with using the dash in EBV. Rather than aiding readers it can only cause confusion. It's not just a few sloppy publications: it is every published work on Epstein-Barr virus that I've ever seen or been able to find, including the definitive source on virus nomenclature: The International Committee on the Taxonomy of Viruses (ICTV) – {{cite web |url=http://ictvonline.org/taxonomyHistory.asp?taxnode_id=20123903&taxa_name=Human%20herpesvirus%204 |title=ICTV Taxonomy History for Human herpesvirus 4 |author=<!--Staff writer(s); no by-line.--> |date= |website= |publisher= |accessdate=13 November 2013}} The only place I've ever found a dash is in the main wikipedia entry for Epstein-Barr virus. Even if the grammatical rules say it's wrong, the hyphen is in-line with the accepted nomenclature and found in (so far as I know) every scientific publication. Don't you think it might be confusing to have the wikipedia page for Epstein-Barr using nomenclature that contradicts the scientific literature? Imagine some poor undergraduate handing in a report about "Epstein—Barr virus", immediately their professor will be annoyed and will have the red pen out to change this. In my understanding, encyclopedias should report information on a subject, not attempt to "repair" or introduce new scholarship. The dash/hyphen battle might be an interesting subject at one of the ICTV meetings, but is not really appropriate on wikipedia. [[User:Walternmoss|Walternmoss]] ([[User talk:Walternmoss|talk]]) 12:43, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
:::I'm not saying the publications are sloppy, only their punctuation in this respect. I'll refer you to Wikipedia policy: [[WP:ENDASH]], point 2, specificially the second part. This is not a matter of following the scientific nomenclature, only of punctuation: The name is the same, but the punctuation differs. Note also that it must be an endash (–, as in Epstein–Barr), not an emdash (—, Epstein—Barr). --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:36, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
::::I still think that adding the dash is confusing. Don't you think it will be strange/confusing to have almost every scientific paper, text book, etc. using a hyphen and only wikipedia using the endash? It's not even uniformly used in wikipedia: other grammarians have added endashes randomly into EBV-related wikipages...it's a mess (not only for punctuation). I've put in a "requested move" for name changes to the pages on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Epstein–Barr_virus Category:Epstein–Barr virus]: to make the punctuation uniform and to name the proteins uniformly. Let's see what "they" say. Another idea would be to query the experts involved in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Molecular and Cellular Biology]] and have them weigh in on this. Would this be helpful? Thank you. [[User:Walternmoss|Walternmoss]] ([[User talk:Walternmoss|talk]]) 13:51, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::What would be confusing? If elsewhere improper punctuation is used, that should be simply fixed, obviously. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:55, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
::::::This is not merely an "academic" dispute. Practically speaking hyphens, endashes, and emdashes might cause problems for search algorithms or for citation/indexing purposes...this seems an important consideration. It is best to have a uniform nomenclature/punctuation for EBV wikipedia articles and one that adheres to that used in the scientific community. [[User:Walternmoss|Walternmoss]] ([[User talk:Walternmoss|talk]]) 14:32, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::::I agree it is best to have a uniform nomenclature and punctuation. I think it is even better if it is as uniform as possible Wikipedia-wide, though. Therefore, the best thing to do is to have these follow the [[WP:MoS|MoS]], and therefore use the endash. As for the searching stuff. This is handled on Wikipedia, as long as there are redirects from the titles with a hyphen to the title with the endash. Google Scholar reads them as equivalent (in fact, as equivalent to a space), so also no problems there if people decide to copy the article title and input it in Google Scholar. I don't of other search engines or indexes, but I have a hard time imagining how using an endash on Wikipedia could seriously hamper those. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:51, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
::::::::I'm not sure how they'd be handled either, hopefully it would not cause a problem. I did some sleuthing the earliest published instance of "EBV" which (to the best of my knowledge) occurred in 1968 ([http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC286007/?page=1 Henle, et. al, 1968]). I was hoping for some hint on this punctuation controversy. They call it "EB virus (EBV)" without a hyphen, or even spelling out the names...so no help here! I thought this was sort of funny.

I don't know if you're following the Requested Move discussion on the EBV main page, but there's been a bit of a breakthrough: in the Wikipedia Manual of Style ([[WP:ENDASH]]) it states, "{{tq|A hyphen is used by default in compounded proper names of single entities.}}" They give several examples of single entities named after two people being joined with a hyphen. As Epstein-Barr virus is the name of this entity, I think the style guide suggests that the hyphen be used, rather than a dash.[[User:Walternmoss|Walternmoss]] ([[User talk:Walternmoss|talk]]) 03:01, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
:That's really just unclear formulation in our MoS, I'm afraid (otherwise it contradicts itself). As has already been said on [[Talk:Epstein–Barr virus]], it only refers to instances where the entity is no longer seen as specifically named after the two components it was originally named after. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:26, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
::After a lot of ranting I've altered my position on the en dash in EBV. I apologize if I was abrasive and for taking up such a huge space on your Talk page. Thanks. This has been really informative to me: I've learned a lot about grammar/punctuation, Wikipedia editing, and the history of EBV! I agree with you on using en dashes uniformly to be consistent with Wikipedia style. I've proposed altering the name changes. Some revised names now use hyphenation (not in the EBV part), but I've done my best to take names from publications with usage that correspond to the official gene names (abbreviations/acronyms indexed in the NCBI). I'm also proposing to add redirects from the acronyms (used in the official gene names) to the main articles (with the names spelled out). I hope these revisions can make everyone happy. Sorry again. [[User:Walternmoss|Walternmoss]] ([[User talk:Walternmoss|talk]]) 03:18, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
:::No problem, really, because you were willing to listen to counterarguments and Wikipedia will be better off. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:06, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

==Useful study==

Hi JorisvS, I posted the following at [[User:Ivan Štambuk|Ivan Štambuk]]'s page, but I think that you, Taivo and kwami could find this useful too when countering Balkan nationalists defecating on the talk pages and articles involving BCS.

---
"Hi Ivan, I was directed to a paper describing an experiment done a few years ago by an American linguist, John Bailyn, concerning Croatian and Serbian. He basically had Croats translate several Serbian texts and found that the results support the single-language hypothesis on analysis of grammar alone because of the lack of modification done to the texts. No doubt this is another blow to the nationalist braintrust on Croatian Wikipedia that continually resorts to ad hominems and non-linguistic argumentation to preserve the image of Croatian and Serbian being different languages like Dutch and German or Danish and Swedish. The study is at https://linguistics.stonybrook.edu/sites/default/files/uploads/u5/publications/JSLBCS2.pdf"
---

[[User:LAuburger|LAuburger]] ([[User talk:LAuburger|talk]])  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 16:28, 13 November 2013 (UTC)</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
: Great! Very useful. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:41, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

==Northern Basque Country==
Hi JorisvS, Northern Basque Country is not a usual term for Iparralde. There is a Basque country in Spain (Hegoalde). Northern Basque Country does not appear in Wikipedia either, it is [[French Basque Country]]. Calling the 3 provinces Northern Basque Country is confusing to the vast majority of non-basque people, therefore I suggest it be replaced by basque provinces in france (4 words) rather than Northern Basque Country (3 words).
[[User:Exurbis67|Exurbis67]] ([[User talk:Exurbis67|talk]]) 20:02, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
:The article [[French Basque Country]] says "The French Basque Country or Northern Basque Country ...", so, no, it is not confusing. In fact, the Basque article itself is located at "''[[eu:Ipar Euskal Herria|Ipar Euskal Herria]]''", which is "Northern Basque Country" when translated. I do not object to rewording it to say "French Basque Country", though. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 21:31, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
:: I think French Basque Country is clearer for the vast majority of the planet, so I would go with that.
[[User:Exurbis67|Exurbis67]] ([[User talk:Exurbis67|talk]]) 16:42, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

== [[2000 Herschel]] ==
Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to [[:2000 Herschel]], without giving a valid reason for the removal in the [[Help:Edit summary|edit summary]]. Your content removal does not appear constructive and has been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]]. Please make use of the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]] if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you.<!-- Template:uw-delete2 --> '''''[[User:Carbon6|Carbon6]]''''' <sup>[[User talk:Carbon6|talk]]</sup> 02:18, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
:It was without a source and I could not verify it, and it looked really weird (the significant figures were ''way'' off). I could have said that in the edit summary, but it was a quick shot for the reasons I've mentioned. Note that your readdition with the 'source' for ''your own'' calculation has been reverted for being [[WP:OR|OR]] and for being way off. -[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:27, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

== Officially banal language question ==

Hi! Is it really perceived non-Anglophone writing "the officially first"? Silly question, but I gotta know. <font face="Chiller">[[User:Praxis Icosahedron|<font color="grey" size="4px">Praxis Icosahedron</font>]]</font> ϡ <small>([[User talk:Praxis Icosahedron|<font color="black">TALK</font>]])</small> 18:54, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
:Well, no. It would be "officially the first". But that does not matter [[Bosnian language|here]]; I reverted it because it is a matter of logic anyway: It is irrelevant if according to some official source one dictionary would be the first (it can then be simply the first or not the first; then "official" can be left out entirely). It can be the first dictionary that has been officially published (an "official dictionary"). In the latter situation, it is best to simply say "the first official dictionary". --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:05, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
::Great, thanks, I'm liking your fine-tuned taste for details! <font face="Chiller">[[User:Praxis Icosahedron|<font color="grey" size="4px">Praxis Icosahedron</font>]]</font> ϡ <small>([[User talk:Praxis Icosahedron|<font color="black">TALK</font>]])</small> 19:15, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

== Arbitration request ==
You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#Serbo-Croatian infobox dispute]] and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—
* [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#Requests for arbitration]];
* [[Wikipedia:Arbitration guide]].

Thanks,<!-- Template:Arbcom notice -->--[[User:Kiril Simeonovski|Kiril Simeonovski]] ([[User talk:Kiril Simeonovski|talk]]) 01:51, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

== The Wikipedia Library Survey ==

As a subscriber to one of [[WP:TWL|The Wikipedia Library]]'s programs, we'd like to hear your thoughts about future donations and project activities in this [https://wikimedia.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_23JuoVF5e7dgDl3 '''brief survey.'''] Thanks and cheers, [[User:Ocaasi|Ocaasi]]<sup> [[User talk:Ocaasi|t ]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/Ocaasi| c]]</sup> 15:15, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
<!-- EdwardsBot 0678 -->

== Tsakonian *r ==

Noticed your edit to [[Tsakonian language|Tsakonian]].  I always wondered about the r–z correspondence in Latin.  You think it might have been s.t. like this? — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 19:52, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
:Could be, it sounds plausible, but I wouldn't really know. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:54, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
::Several scholars suspect that Latin ''s'' was really [[Voiceless alveolar retracted sibilant|retracted]], like in several dialects of Spanish, Greek and some other European languages. In this case, a plausible intermediate stage between [z] and [r] may also have been [ɹ], which then merged with /r/. The same stage could have been found in Old Norse, for example. --[[User:Florian Blaschke|Florian Blaschke]] ([[User talk:Florian Blaschke|talk]]) 15:49, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

== Arbitration request ==

The arbitration request naming you as a party has been [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case&curid=22747298&diff=585656592&oldid=585656487] declined by the Committee. The comments at the request may be useful in moving forward. For the Arbitration Committee, '''[[User:Rschen7754|Rs]][[User talk:Rschen7754|chen]][[Special:Contributions/Rschen7754|7754]]''' 22:22, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

== [[Upsilon Andromedae]] ==

You might want to check your last [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Upsilon_Andromedae&diff=585721535&oldid=585578466 edit] to Upsilon Andromedae; it looks like you removed more than you might have intended. A lot of categories which look like they were still applicable, and no comment indicating they were obsolete. Regards, [[User:Tarlneustaedter|Tarl.Neustaedter]] ([[User talk:Tarlneustaedter|talk]]) 22:01, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
:I simply moved them to [[:Category:Upsilon Andromedae|its category page]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:39, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
:: That doesn't seem to be the pattern used in other stars - categories like Bayer objects, Flamsteed Objects, ... are present in the star article itself. The change doesn't seem obvious to me - Is there a new policy to move these categories? [[User:Tarlneustaedter|Tarl.Neustaedter]] ([[User talk:Tarlneustaedter|talk]]) 16:39, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
:::It just seemed to make sense to me to have them at the system's category, because these numbers were assigned to the stars long ago and would apply as much to the entire system as to just the star. Do you think it makes more sense to have them at the star's article? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:14, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
::::Pretty much, yes. The category is likely only to be found by someone looking for pointers to the components, the star article itself is where I'd expect any references to catalogues to appear. It would avoid the disconnect in the draper/flamsteed/etc references where categories and articles appear in different lists. Indeed, I'm not sure a category of upsilon andromedae makes much sense, it seems more likely that an subsection "Upsilon Andromedae components" would make more sense for that particular collection of references. Regards, [[User:Tarlneustaedter|Tarl.Neustaedter]] ([[User talk:Tarlneustaedter|talk]]) 18:54, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
:::::You could just move them back. I don't particularly care where they are. I don't understand what you mean about the category itself. To me it makes as much sense as the category [[:Category:Solar System|Solar System]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:13, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

== [[Kabardian language]] ==
Your recent editing history  shows that you are currently engaged in an [[Wikipedia:Edit warring|edit war]]. '''Being involved in an edit war can result in your being [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked from editing]]'''&mdash;especially if you violate the [[Wikipedia:Edit warring#The three-revert rule|three-revert rule]], which states that an editor must not perform more than three [[Help:Reverting|reverts]] on a single page within a 24-hour period.  Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert.  Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;'''even if you don't violate the three-revert rule'''&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's [[Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines|talk page]] to work toward making a version that represents [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] among editors. See [[Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle|BRD]] for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant [[Wikipedia:Noticeboards|noticeboard]] or seek [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution|dispute resolution]].  In some cases, you may wish to request temporary [[Wikipedia:Protection policy|page protection]]. <!-- Template:uw-3rr --> [[User:Estlandia|Estlandia]]  [[User talk:Estlandia|(woof!)]] 10:13, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
:Don't be an idiot. You're replacing a referenced figure with an unreferenced one, and now you're "warning" me for reverting you? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:20, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

== Mmm, let's compare notes... ==

Hello, 

I am kinda new to making edit in wikipedia. I am interesting Astronomy... But, I trying to cleanup the section about asteroids in the main, [[:Category:Main Belt asteroid stubs]]. 17,502 articles/stubs. They need to be put somewhere else??

Sincerely,
Pliming..

P.S. Trying to be helpful....
[[User:Pliming|Pliming]] ([[User talk:Pliming|talk]]) 09:27, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
:No problem being new. [[WP:Stub|Stubs]] are very short articles. [[31 Euphrosyne|This article]] is longer than a stub. If those articles are indeed very short (i.e. stubs), then they should be tagged as such. I doubt that we can or should be more specific than a general stub category of articles about asteroids in the asteroid belt. However, any stub should preferably be expanded. If you want to clean up articles about Solar System objects, you may want to look at [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=(12922)_1998_WW19&diff=prev&oldid=586769961 this clean-up edit of mine]. Although it is ''really'' short now, it is still better than it was. For example, it ''is'' an asteroid, no matter whether it would be officially catalogued as such; moreover, all asteroids are [[minor planet]]s, but not all minor planets are asteroid (e.g. [[Pluto]] is a [[minor planet]] (and [[dwarf planet]]), but not an asteroid). Also, it is best to refer to the [[asteroid belt]] as such, and not "main belt" (and certainly not with caps like "Main Belt" or so), because it is the only belt of asteroids in the Solar System. If you have any other questions, I'm happy to answer them. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:43, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

::Mmmm, Ok…. You, are right. We currently have only one asteroid belt. But we also have the Kuiper belt. Has for an asteroid being classified also a minor planet. That does not make sense. It should be one or the other. Not both. I think the, International Astronomical Union, messed us up, when they reclassified Pluto as a dwarf planet. And, they have not got around to dealing with the asteroids. That is not your fault. [[User:Pliming|Pliming]] ([[User talk:Pliming|talk]]) 16:30, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
::I like the article, List of minor planets. Because it does a good job of listing the minor planets/asteroids. [[User:Pliming|Pliming]] ([[User talk:Pliming|talk]]) 17:10, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
:::Not all minor planets being asteroids makes perfect sense: just like that all [[Chihuahua (dog)|chihuahuas]] are dogs, but not all dogs are chihuahuas. As for Pluto being a dwarf planet: Check out [[Clearing the neighbourhood#Details|the table here]], and note the enormous gap between the planets and the dwarf planets, as expressed in two distinct, but related parameters: a body's orbital cleanliness μ and a body's scattering ability Λ. Nature has provided a very clear distinction between these two populations. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:11, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
::::Ok, I see your point. But what about a dwarf planet, also being classified as a minor planet. People can and do get confused by these terms. I am no expert by any means. I am just interested in the subject. What do you think about it.[[User:Pliming|Pliming]] ([[User talk:Pliming|talk]]) 05:21, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
:::::All dwarf planets are also minor planets (note that all have minor-planet numbers). A minor planet is everything that is not a star, planet, satellite, or comet (check out to which populations [[minor planet]]s can belong at that page; the second sentence). In turn, all minor planets and comets are [[small Solar System object]]s. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:48, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
::::::Mmm, ah. How long or short of  a article would you, consider a stub?? Why are some articles stubs, and not others. What's its purpose? 
::::::As for what is or not a minor planet. I will go by the articles, you mentioned, When, when I catalogue these objects. Thank you. [[User:Pliming|Pliming]] ([[User talk:Pliming|talk]]) 17:42, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
:::::::A [[paragraph]] with at most a few references. See also [[WP:Stub]] and [[User:Grutness/Croughton-London rule of stubs]]--[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:34, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
::::::::Hey, To let you know, I messed up the article on, 22_Kalliope, badly. Sorry. I tried to delete a dead link. I am trying to help, but not doing a good job, yet??[[User:Pliming|Pliming]] ([[User talk:Pliming|talk]]) 21:47, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::Okay, I restored the infobox. I'll have a look at the dead link later. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:16, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Ok, Thank you
[[User:Pliming|Pliming]] ([[User talk:Pliming|talk]]) 07:17, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

==Note on models for [[Fomalhaut b]]==
I don't understand what you think is unclear about the models that Galicher et al. in the "Recovery/independent confirmation with Hubble and further controversy" section.  The text is almost verbatim from the paper abstract and seems perfectly clear to me.  They consider two models for Fomalhaut b's emission, both involving dust, not thermal emission from a planet atmosphere.  In one case, the dust is 'circumplanetary', gravitationally bound to an unseen, lower-mass planet in a disk-like geometry.  In the second case, they try to explain "Fomalhaut b" as a collision between two 50km-sized Kuiper belt objects (in other words Fomalhaut b is 'just a dust cloud').  They compute the collision frequency of two 50 km exo-KBOs given the optical depth of Fomalhaut's debris ring and the orbital timescale, arguing that such collisions happen within the belt every few centuries.  [[User:2632cgn|2632cgn]] ([[User talk:2632cgn|talk]]) 19:54, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
:Hmm, I seem to have misplaced the tag when I restored it after you replaced with a reference. It was meant for the "not, strictly speaking, a directly imaged planet" part. Sorry. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 21:37, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
:: Got it.  But I guess I don't understand the clarification needed there either.  By "not, strictly speaking, a directly imaged planet" the paper means that we are not seeing thermal emission from a planet (i.e. we are not seeing photons from the atmosphere of a planet).  This is unlike the case for [[HR 8799 b]]cde, [[beta Pictoris]] b, [[ROXs 42Bb]] and the like. Rather, we are seeing dust surrounding an ''unseen'' planet.  Does that make sense to you? [[User:2632cgn|2632cgn]] ([[User talk:2632cgn|talk]]) 21:45, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
:::That makes sense, but what about the images under [[Fomalhaut b#Gallery|the gallery]]? They show a brighter, moving spot that would be b. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 21:05, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

==2013==
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|rowspan="2" valign="top" |  [[File:Space Barnstar 1e.png|110px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: bottom; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Space Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: top; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For outstanding contributions and editing on articles about space. [[User:Fotaun|Fotaun]] ([[User talk:Fotaun|talk]]) 02:15, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
|}
{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[File:WikiProject Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: bottom; height: 1.1em;" | '''The WikiProject Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: top; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For contributions to various projects and related articles. [[User:Fotaun|Fotaun]] ([[User talk:Fotaun|talk]]) 02:15, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
|}

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | {{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|[[File:Tireless Contributor Barnstar Hires.gif|100px]]| [[File:Tireless Contributor Barnstar.gif|100px]]}}
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Tireless Contributor Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For your large contributions to knowledge and editing. [[User:Fotaun|Fotaun]] ([[User talk:Fotaun|talk]]) 02:15, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
|}
:Thanks! --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 20:57, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

==Category:NN Serpentis==

'''[[:Category:NN Serpentis]]''', which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at '''[[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 December 26#Category:NN Serpentis|the category's entry]]''' on the [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion|Categories for discussion]] page.<!-- Template:Cfd-notify--> Thank you. [[User:StringTheory11|StringTheory11]] ([[User talk:StringTheory11|t]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/StringTheory11|c]]) 19:08, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

== Thank you ==
Thank you for your useful edits to the Italian Wikiproject pages. [[User:Speling12345|Speling12345]] ([[User talk:Speling12345|talk]]) 5:00, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

==Voiceless palatal fricative==
Hi! I am the person behind the audio (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:13-12-22_voiceless_palatal_fricative.ogg) that you have recently deleted from the voiceless palatal fricative page. I've been trying to get to the right sound of this particular phoneme for quite some time, and I tried pronouncing it approximating down from the voiceless palatal stop, which - unlike the fricative - does occur in my first language (that is, Slovak). Could you please help me identify the sound that I actually made while going for the palatal fricative? It would be greatly appreciated, as I am currently trying to - so to speak - get my IPA sounds right. Thank you and have a nice day! :)) [[User:Edralis|Edralis]] 10:03, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
:A palatalized laminal voiceless alveolar fricative. According to [[voiceless palatal stop]], the voiceless palatal plosive of Slovak is actually alveolar, which likely means that it would be precisely a palatalized laminal voiceless alveolar plosive, and that you kept the place of articulation exactly the same. The voiceless palatal fricative is basically a fronted [[voiceless velar fricative]] and sounds most like it, but a bit mixed with that of the [[voiceless postalveolar fricative]]. It exists in some English pronunciations of "hue", as in the sound file at [[wikt:hue]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:07, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
::Well, that is indeed a very helpful explanation. Thank you for your time and patience! :) [[User:Edralis|Edralis]] 15:04, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
:::You're welcome. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:51, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for January 7==

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited [[Southern Chakavian]], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page [[Split]] ([[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Southern_Chakavian|check to confirm]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Southern_Chakavian|fix with Dab solver]]). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the [[User:DPL bot/Dablink notification FAQ|FAQ]]{{*}} Join us at the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|DPL WikiProject]].</small>

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these [[User:DPL bot|opt-out instructions]]. Thanks, [[User:DPL bot|DPL bot]] ([[User talk:DPL bot|talk]]) 09:01, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
:{{Done|Fixed}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:58, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
== January 2014 ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=590055761 your edit] to [[High German languages]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:High German languages|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
*<nowiki>dialects|High German dialects]]''' ({{lang-de|Hochdeutsche Dialekte}}) comprise the [[variety </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>linguistics|varieties]] of [[German language|German]] spoken south of the [[Benrath line|Benrath]]</nowiki>
Thanks, <!-- (1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 10:35, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
:{{Done|Fixed}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:55, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=590646525 your edit] to [[Chechen language]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:Chechen language|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
*<nowiki>from Turkic (like "kuzga", "shish"), belonging to the universal Caucasian stratum of borrowings</nowiki>{{red|'''&#41;'''}}<nowiki> and most recently Russian (modern terms, like computer – "kamputar", television – "telvideni",</nowiki>
*<nowiki>prefers the use of Cyrillic, whereas the [[Chechen Republic of Ichkeria|separatists']] prefer Latin</nowiki>{{red|'''&#41;'''}}<nowiki>.</nowiki>
Thanks, <!-- (-1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 10:50, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
:{{Done|Fixed}}, and more. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:52, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=592319783 your edit] to [[Croatian language]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:Croatian language|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].
:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
*<nowiki>language|Montenegrin]]. All other [[Serbo-Croatian dialects]] are also spoken by ethnic Croats </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>[[Chakavian dialect|Chakavian]], [[Kajkavian dialect|Kajkavian]], and [[Torlakian dialect|Torlakian]</nowiki>
Thanks, <!-- (1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 13:12, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
:{{Done|Fixed}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:16, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

== [[Kabardian language]] ==

Please tell me, what is wrong now? I didn't use any colors - all I did was make the table look more neet. What do you have against me!? [[User:יהודה שמחה ולדמן|יהודה שמחה ולדמן]] ([[User talk:יהודה שמחה ולדמן|talk]]) 23:07, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
:I do not have anything against you. It simply does not improve the table. The table at that article has been in the standard layout used all over phonology sections in Wikipedia. Using colors or not is not the problem, though. The problem is arbitrarily changing the layout of a standardized table. We were discussing any possible improvements at [[Talk:Adyghe language]], and then you decided to change the table at another article instead of discussing. You should be discussing it. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:05, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

== Changes to the Manual of Style ==

Hello there!  Regarding [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AManual_of_Style&diff=591531084&oldid=591265292 your edit] on the [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style]], could you please point me into the place on MOS' talk page where you've discussed those changes, and reached a required consensus?  As we know, all non-trivial changes to the MOS are required to be discussed first.  Also, the language you've used could be improved; for example, numbers were used instead of spelling them out.  Please advise. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]) 12:51, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

:Great, a piece of constructive criticism! The place is [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Hyphens instead of endashes]]. It clearly states the problem to be fixed in the beginning of the discussion. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:10, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

:: Thank you for providing a link to the thread on MOS' talk page, and please let me spend some time digesting this quite lengthy discussion. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]) 22:38, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

::: Ok, got through it. :)  Well, you did it all right, by writing a new wording proposal and putting it up for voting; though, the issue is there was no clear consensus about that proposal.  I'd suggest you split the new wording proposal into another (sub)section on the MOS talk page, in order to attract more comments through voting.  I know it's a painful process, but changing the MOS is like changing the constitution of a state. :)  Hope you agree. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]) 05:41, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
::::Okay, thanks for the advice. Will do. :) --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:41, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

== Mutual intelligibility ==
Hi JorisvS!
One quick point. When we say [[mutual intelligibility]] between two languages (suppose A and B), we essentially mean that both the languages (A and B) are understood by speakers of both the languages. If speaker of language A does not understand language B, it is referred to as asymmetric intelligibility and NOT mutual intelligibility.
And since the table says about mutual intelligibility, hence it should be mentioning the languages relation only once. Shouldn't it?  <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:7Sidz|7Sidz]] ([[User talk:7Sidz|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/7Sidz|contribs]]) 19:56, 22 January 2014 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Okay, you've got a point there. There is a problem with cleaning up the list, though: There are combinations such as Danish–Swedish–Norwegian, where there are varying degrees of intelligibility. How could we remove the duplicates from the list and at the same time still clearly indicate these? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:28, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

== Contractions ==

I see you often edit contractions out of articles, as if it's an end in itself, but that often leaves the article sounding stilted and artificial.  An example is your latest edit at [[1 Ceres]].  I don't think anyone would ever say it that way, so when I read it, the two words "did not" sound like the point of the sentence rather than just the grammar for the point.  — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 22:21, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
:[[WP:CONTRACTIONS]] says about contractions that they should almost all of the time be avoided, because they are too informal for an encyclopedia. That's how I assessed that part. It also suggests rephrasing the whole sentence as a possible solution. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:51, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

== Thanks for advice on spotlight effect ==
I have been working with my history of psychology classes to improve Wikipedia psychology content. Back in May you gave some good advice on this article. I missed it until recently, because I had not checked back on my talk page. (I didn't realize how important this is until recently.) I will be sure to pass it along to my present class. I hope to find some students who will fix the article so it meets Wikipedia standards. [[User:James Council|James Council]] ([[User talk:James Council|talk]]) 20:56, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
:That would be great! --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:17, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

== re edit to [[Botlikh language]] ==

When I last looked at the [[Botlikh language]] page, the info box was full of nonsense and the references section had an error. The previous version of the page was working so I undid your edit. Perhaps the some template was temporarily broken. —[[User:Coroboy|Coroboy]] ([[User talk:Coroboy|talk]]) 11:06, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
:The only thing your edit did was change the stub tag back to a more generic one[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Botlikh_language&diff=prev&oldid=593237194], so it didn't affect the infobox, nor any references. Nor was it my edit that you undid. The template [[template:NEC-lang-stub]] hasn't been edited since its creation almost a month ago. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:11, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
::After your comment I checked the history of that template too. I saw that it hadn't changed. That's why I said "some template was temporarily broken" - I'm not going to try chasing down all the templates, sub-templates, etc. that might have been called from Botlikh page to see if something was being changed somewhere at that time. I just saw a badly messed up page, tried the previous version which was ok and did an undo. What else do you suggest I could have done? —[[User:Coroboy|Coroboy]] ([[User talk:Coroboy|talk]]) 11:28, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
:::Well, what I would do is check if I can fix the problem by looking at the template used in the article, instead of hiding the problem. I think you would have found that the problem was unrelated to that template in this case. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:39, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
::::And then what? I don't have the expertise to go mucking around inside of templates. I can fix an obvious mess by reverting to a version which works. Next time I see a mess, I'll leave it for you experts to fix. Nuff. —[[User:Coroboy|Coroboy]] ([[User talk:Coroboy|talk]]) 11:47, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
:::::No, of course. You might have seen that the problem had gone away, you might still have undone that edit with a better-informed edit summary. I don't know, it would have depended on what you would have seen. I am no template expert either, I just try to do what I can, just like you. I only take a slightly different approach to it. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 12:17, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

== astro boxes ==

Since you've been cleaning up the formatting in the planet/asteroid info boxes, I've noticed that quite a few have {{angbr|"}} rather than a proper {{angbr|″}} under the param 'Angular diameter'.  I've fixed the ones I've noticed, but haven't gone looking for them.  Just in case you're looking for things to do :) — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 18:41, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
:Heh. I'll keep an eye out for those, although I do ave more than enough things to do. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 21:07, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

== Croatian language ==
I've left a message on the [[Talk:Croatian language]]. I would appreciate if you could elaborate on your recent edit. [[User:Shokatz|Shokatz]] ([[User talk:Shokatz|talk]]) 13:00, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

== Spectral type ==

Hi, I see you've changed B-dash-V to B-minus-V.  Do we have an article on what these mean?  Should probably link to it from the box. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 18:02, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
:These are used indicated an object's color. If I have understood them correctly, they mean something like blue band minus green (visual) band. Although, I don't quite understand why then red Sedna has a positive V−R=0.78 (maybe the absolute value?), but I haven't been able to make sense of these in any other way. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:12, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

== Singer-Brewster ==

I think it's kind of weird what you did with [[105P/Singer-Brewster]], and asking for trouble.  It seems to me that we need in situations like this to more clearly distinguish IAU-formatted names, like "105P/Singer Brewster" from more normal names as styled for WP audience, as "Comet Singer-Brewster".  And the discussion of en dash versus hyphen in the article is probably not sourceable to a reliable source, so should be left out.  [[User:Dicklyon|Dicklyon]] ([[User talk:Dicklyon|talk]]) 08:50, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

On the other hand, I do see quite a few books with "105P/Singer-Brewster".  Not sure how to interpret the intent there.  [[User:Dicklyon|Dicklyon]] ([[User talk:Dicklyon|talk]]) 08:52, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
:Maybe they don't blindly follow the weird IAU interpunction? That said, it seems like a sensible idea to move the article to Comet Singer-Brewster; after all, what is the point in having the weird (for the layman) "105P/" in the name if it's so easy to avoid? The IAU hyphen vs. endash stuff is something people will likely wonder about when they notice it the difference. Maybe we should move it to the talk page instead? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:32, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

::Almost every other comet uses a <s>hyphen</s> errr horizontal thingie, instead of a space.

::For example [[1655 Comas Sola]] is named after [[Josep Comas Solà|Comas Solà]], also known as "Comas i Solà" ("i" is "and" in Catalan language). But a small number of sources still manages to put a hyphen on his comet name ''and'' on his surname. Does it mean that it really has a hyphen? Of course not!

::About removing the RS from the article.... I don't even know what to say at that. Really, please, don't do that again.

::Also, unmoved. Try a [[WP:RM]] if you feel really lucky.  --[[User:Enric Naval|Enric Naval]] ([[User talk:Enric Naval|talk]]) 19:31, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
:::Then try being ''consistent'' in following the weird IAU interpunction. This is not currently the case. But it's good that you've managed to call it 'horizontal thingie', because that's all the IAU can make of it. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:38, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

== February 2014 ==
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, and [[Wikipedia:Introduction|welcome to Wikipedia]]. You appear to be engaged in an [[Wikipedia:Edit warring|edit war]] with one or more editors according to your reverts at [[:Epsilon Indi]]. Although repeatedly [[Help:Reverting|reverting or undoing]] another editor's contributions may seem necessary to protect your preferred version of a page, on Wikipedia this is usually seen as obstructing the [[Wikipedia:Editing policy|normal editing process]], and often creates animosity between editors. Instead of edit warring, please discuss the situation with the editor(s) involved and try to reach a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] on the [[:Talk:Epsilon Indi|talk page]].

If editors continue to revert to their preferred version they are likely to be [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked from editing]]. This isn't done to punish an editor, but to prevent the disruption caused by edit warring. In particular, editors should be aware of the [[Wikipedia:Edit warring#The three-revert rule|three-revert rule]], which says that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. While edit warring on Wikipedia is not acceptable in any amount, breaking the three-revert rule is very likely to lead to a [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|block]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:uw-ewsoft --> [[User:StringTheory11|StringTheory11]] ([[User talk:StringTheory11|t]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/StringTheory11|c]]) 16:34, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
:Not really, just an anon who is adamant on restoring his own version (which I have merely (re)copyedited) every few days and does not give any reason for reverting my copyediting. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:38, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
::Yeah, the anon should certainly provide a reason, and I've warned them for edit warring too. However, that doesn't change the fact that it is still edit warring, and it would be beneficial to all for you to take it to the talk page. BTW, I don't have a strong opinion on the issue. [[User:StringTheory11|StringTheory11]] ([[User talk:StringTheory11|t]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/StringTheory11|c]]) 16:48, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
:::There is currently not much for me to discuss, though I suppose the next time such a thing happens I could take it to the other user's talk page. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:52, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

== s/(Bosnian|Croatian|Serbian)/Serbo-Croatian/g ==

[[Image:Ambox notice.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved.   <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you.
--[[User:Joy|Joy &#91;shallot&#93;]] ([[User talk:Joy|talk]]) 09:24, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
:But....that would substitute Serbo-Serbo-Croatian for Serbo-Croatian. ;/ — [[User:Lfdder|Lfdder]] ([[User talk:Lfdder|talk]]) 12:39, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

== re Once in HE ==

Re your comment in [[List of gravitationally rounded objects of the Solar System]], see [http://www.planetary.org/blogs/guest-blogs/van-kane/20140219-mission-to-a-metallic-world.html this article on Psyche]. [[User:Tbayboy|Tbayboy]] ([[User talk:Tbayboy|talk]]) 00:28, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
:Thanks. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:46, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

== secondaire ==

* [[File:Secondaire Qc.oga]]

Hello, this pronunciation is [sœɡõdæːχ] or [sœɡõdɐɛ̯χ] ? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 16:26, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

It's hard to tell. [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 17:46, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
:At first inspection it's definitely more like the former, though not quite. The "front vowels" sound more mid than front to me, so it sounds more like [sɞɡõdɜːχ] to me. The last vowel also doesn't sound quite "stable", but that may be due to the tongue having to start to make a uvular. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:44, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Original Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Although we don't always agree on everything related to astronomical objects, I just want to say that I do appreciate the work you do to keep their articles in good shape. [[User:StringTheory11|StringTheory11]] ([[User talk:StringTheory11|t]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/StringTheory11|c]]) 05:57, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
|}
:Thank you! --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:48, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

== Edits on T cell ==
You're welcome!  I appreciate your having extended the kind gesture in thanking me. [[User:NewEnglandDr|NewEnglandDr]] ([[User talk:NewEnglandDr|talk]]) 22:07, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

== tempête ==

* [[File:FR-Tempête (Gaspésie).ogg]]

This pronunciation is [tãpeɪ̯t] or [tãpɐɪ̯t] ? The last diphthong is not very clear. [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 23:36, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
:The latter, with the /ã/ centralized. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:27, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

== type o ==

why? --[[User:Dana60Cummins|Dana60Cummins]] ([[User talk:Dana60Cummins|talk]]) 19:38, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
:Why what? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:41, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

== hiver ==

* [[File:Fr-hiver-fr CA.ogg]]

This pronunciation is [ivaɛ̯χ], [ivæɛ̯χ] or [ivæχ] ? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 13:14, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
:There's definitely some [æ] in it. Furthermore, it sounds somewhat unstable, but the second component of the diphthong does not sound quite like [ɛ]. Maybe it is more like [ə], so [ivæə̯χ]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:37, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

* [[File:Qc-Pêche.oga]]

This one is [paɛ̯ʃ] or [pæɪ̯ʃ] ? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 18:12, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
:Closest to [päɘ̯ʃ] or roughly [päɪ̯ʃ]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:47, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

==commonest==
True, there's nothing wrong with "most common". But what's [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Saraiki_dialect&diff=598675969&oldid=598653395 wrong] with "commonest"? -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 12:08, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

No editor of en:WP can be without a copy of ''CGEL'' at arm's reach. The matter comes up on pp. 1583-1584, but disappointingly the authors say that rules of thumb are of only minor help and the matter is for the most part lexically determined. So I offer you three ''Guardian'' stories: "[http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2008/mar/04/healthandwellbeing.books Sam Murphy reveals the seven commonest mistakes runners make]", "[http://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2010/dec/29/commonest-film-title-the-awakening Awakening to the commonest film title]", "[http://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/oct/05/stress-commonest-cause-long-term-sick-leave Stress now commonest cause of long-term sick leave]". -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 12:31, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
:The point is not as much as what's wrong with it, as it is what form is more usual. "Most common" is the more usual form. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 12:51, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
::So "most common" is commoner than "commonest". If you're [http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/t/thackeray/william_makepeace/irish/chapter20.html comfortabler] with the commoner than with the less common, that's your preference; but is this some new MoS guideline that I haven't heard of? (I really don't know as I seldom hang out in those parts; I'm a mere commoner.) Incidentally, "while" is hugely commoner than "whilst" (even allowing for inflation of the former by tokens of the noun and verb "while"); but if you start converting the latter to the former you'll have various Brit editors frothing at the mouth with indignation. (I will not be among them.) -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 13:34, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

== Canadian French pronunciation ==

* [[File:Fr-lézard-ca-Montréal.ogg]]

This pronunciation is between [lezɑːχ] and [lezɒːχ]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 16:42, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
:That sounds about right. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:57, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
::Neither [lezɑːχ] nor [lezɒːχ]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 18:08, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
:::It sounds indeed less rounded than [ɒː]. It could be written as [lezɒ̜ːχ] or [lezɑ̹ːχ]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:16, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

* [[File:FR-CA-tête.oga]]

This one sounds like [tɛɪ̯t] or [taɪ̯t]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
:The former. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 20:02, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
::[tæɪ̯t] or [tɐɪ̯t] are possible too? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 17:19, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
:::It sounds more front to me the more often I hear it. You're right, it sounds a bit more open than typical [ɛ], so [tæɪ̯t] would seem to be more accurate. Moreover, the vowel is definitely not fully front, more like [[near-front vowel|near-front]], so [tæ̈ɪ̯t] seems most accurate. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:53, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

* [[File:Secondaire Qc.oga]]

Last time, you told me that it's [sɞɡõdɜːχ], but [sɞɡõdɐːχ] is possible too? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 11:38, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
:Nah, it doesn't sound open enough for [ɐ]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:40, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
::[sɞɡõdɜɛ̯χ]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 14:04, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
:::I don't hear much of a diphthong. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:43, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
:::Hmm, or maybe something like [sɞɡõdɛ̈ɜ̯χ], starting near-front and going to mid. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 20:10, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

* [[File:Fr-ver-ca-Montréal.ogg]]

This one is [vɐ̯ɛχ]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 19:16, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
:More like [væə̯χ] or [væɜ̯χ], I'd say. The first vowel sound is definitely the nucleus and sounds pretty front. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 20:10, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
::But I heard an extra-short [ɐ̯] before the [æ]. Maybe [vɐ̯æə̯χ]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 11:25, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
::You don't hear the extra-short [ɐ]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 19:36, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
:::Not really. It could be that what you're hearing is simply the effect the consonant ([v]) has on the color of the following vowel. And although this could technically be transcribed as something along the line of what you're proposing, this would just mean that any and all monophthongs in syllables such as CVC would be triphthongs and transcribed as such and that diphthongs would be quadruphthongs (is that even a word?), etc.. Such effects of adjacent consonants on vowels is unavoidable, because the mouth has to transition from a state to make a consonant to a state to make a vowel (or vice-versa), and the intermediate states associated with such a transition also sound somewhat differently. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:50, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

* [[File:FR-Tard (Gaspésie).ogg]]

This one is [tɒːχ], [tɑɔ̯χ] or [tɒɔ̯χ]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 14:11, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
:The middle, I'd say. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:15, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

* [[File:FR-Tempête (Gaspésie).ogg]]

It's [tãpɐɪ̯t] or [tãmpɐɪ̯t]? The [m] is pronounced or not? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 20:57, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
:There is no [m] of significance, though possibly the coordination of the closing of the nasal pharynx and the closing of the lips is not perfect, and hence the [p] might be prenasalized very slightly ([tãᵐpɐɪ̯t]). But such phenomena are the rule, not the exception. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:07, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

* [[File:Qc-baleine.ogg]]

This one is [balɛ̃ːnᵊ], [balẽːnᵊ] or [balɛ̃ẽ̯nᵊ]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 16:13, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
:It starts off with a nasalized version of something like [e] and continues on to a very thick [j], but the following [n] is not thick, and there is no extra-short vowel following the [n], so maybe [balẽːjˠn]. I also hear something about the [l]... Maybe it is because everything is nasalized, so {{IPA|[bãl̃ẽːj̃n]}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:30, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
::Maybe it's a [ɫ]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 18:50, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
:::I considered that, but it doesn't quite sound as 'thick', cf. the sound file at [[velarized alveolar lateral approximant]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:06, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

* [[File:Ancêtre Qc.oga]]

This one is [ɑ̃sɐɛ̯tχ] or [ɒ̃sɐɛ̯tχ]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 23:08, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

The first syllable is [ɑ̃] or [ɒ̃]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 13:27, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
:It's difficult to determine the exact degree of rounding, but it sounds closer to [ɑ̃] to me. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:21, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

* [[File:Caisse – prononciation OFr.ogg]]

This one is [kʰɛɪ̯s], [kʰaɪ̯s] or [kʰɐɪ̯s]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 17:50, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
:[kʰɐɪ̯s]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:57, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

== Meridional French ==

* [[File:Fr-quand.ogg]]

This one is [kã] or [kaŋ]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 16:22, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
:[kãŋ]. The [ŋ] is very clearly there. If you'd want to be very precise, the velar are fronted (so are pre-velar) and the vowel is front, so [k̟ã̟ŋ̟]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:31, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

== template ==

FYI, re. this,[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=20000_Varuna&curid=450738&diff=600142011&oldid=599793528] if you put "|u=km" in the template, it will prevent separation at line breaks.  — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 06:31, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
:Yeah, thanks. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:45, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

==You're welcome==
You are welcome. [[User:Hyacinth|Hyacinth]] ([[User talk:Hyacinth|talk]]) 20:49, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

== caisse ==

* [[File:FQ-caisse.ogg]]

This one is [kʲɛi̯s] or [kʲæi̯s]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 15:06, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
:[kʲʰɛi̯s]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:16, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

* [[File:Qc-fête.oga]]

This one is [fäɪ̯t] or [fɑɪ̯t]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 22:54, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
:[fɐɪ̯tʰ]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:43, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

* [[File:FRQC-kilomètre.oga]]

This one sounds like [ɚ̃ kʲi.lɔ̜.maɪ̯tχ] or [ɚ̃ kʲi.lɔ̜.mæɪ̯tχ] ? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 20:11, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

[ɚ̃ kʲi.lɔ̜.maɪ̯tχ] ? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 12:39, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
:More like [ɐ]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:07, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

== 2013 FY27 ==
I like how you re-worded {{mpl|2013 FY|27}} for the technical astro crowd, but I am concerned that readers will think that means that it is currently the 9th brightest TNO when it has an apparent magnitude of 22 as a result of being 80AU from the Sun. -- [[User:Kheider|Kheider]] ([[User talk:Kheider|talk]]) 21:33, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
:Thank you, I missed that part. I was thinking about rewording it to "ninth-intrinsically-brightest", but that could also be confused with albedo. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:50, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

== [[Artos]] ==

[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Artos&diff=602239513&oldid=602239282 This time] you've got it right.<br>[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Artos&diff=602237240&oldid=602208590 Last time] you hadn't... ;-)<br>[[User:Thanatos666|Thanatos]]|[[User talk:Thanatos666|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Thanatos666|contributions]] 09:06, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:Yes, I saw that thanks to your revert. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:09, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

== [[WP:ANI]] discussion ==

[[Image:Ambox notice.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Reporting User:Lighthouse01|Reporting User:Lighthouse01]].  <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you. [[User:CodeCat|CodeCat]] ([[User talk:CodeCat|talk]]) 21:23, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

== buy ==

* [[File:En-us-buy.ogg]]

It sounds like [baɪ̯] or [b̥aɪ̯] ? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 18:50, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
:It doesn't really sound voiced. [b̥aɪ̯] sounds about accurate. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 20:34, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

== peut-être ==

* [[File:Qc-peut-être.ogg]]

This pronunciation is [pœtɑɪ̯tʀ̥] or [pø̞tɑɪ̯tʀ̥]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 23:26, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
:[pœtäɪ̯tχ]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:19, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

* [[File:FR-Tempête (Gaspésie).ogg]]

Now, I think that [tãpæɪ̯t] is more accurate than [tãpɐɪ̯t], is it true? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 15:59, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

You are not sure? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 20:37, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
:Not really, no. It may be that what you're hearing (and what I heard too) is that the vowel is not quite central, but near-central.  --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:32, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

Hey, great thanks for your corrections in [[Khinalug people]] article. I did translation from [[ruwiki]], and was going to ask someone for the help in checking my errors. Bests, [[User:Ali-al-Bakuvi|Ali-al-Bakuvi]] ([[User_talk:Ali-al-Bakuvi|talk]]) 13:45, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
:Okay, I've now looked at the rest of it, too. There is one word I could not interpret in this context: consonance (see tag). If you could elaborate it, I could then clarify it. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:05, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
::Added in the [[Talk:Khinalug people|Talk page]]. Bests, [[User:Ali-al-Bakuvi|Ali-al-Bakuvi]] ([[User_talk:Ali-al-Bakuvi|talk]]) 14:16, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

==[[Bosnian language]]==
"Language is a living thing. We can feel it changing. Parts of it become old: they drop off and are forgotten. New pieces bud out, spread into leaves, and become big branches, proliferating." (brainyquote.com)
What do you mean "Not the same Bosnian language."? Bosnian started somehow to become what it is today. --[[User:WikiLite91|WikiLite91]] ([[User talk:WikiLite91|talk]]) 15:52, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
:The only coherent entity out there that can be called "Bosnian" is (modern) Standard Bosnian (which is the topic of the article). Current day-to-day speech by Bosniaks is only "Bosnian" in that it is spoken by Bosniaks, and is often more distinct internally than from the day-to-day speech of Croatians or Serbians. A dictionary from several hundred years ago cannot be about (modern) Standard Bosnian, but only about the speeches of Bosniaks of the current time, which even then formed no coherent entity. The right article for this would be [[Serbo-Croatian]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 20:31, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
::Ok then, I'll make article about Old Bosnian, if you say so. --[[User:WikiLite91|WikiLite91]] ([[User talk:WikiLite91|talk]]) 06:44, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
:::I doubt that makes a coherent topic, no more than, amoung others, 'Croatian language' as the "modern day-to-day speech by ethnic Croats", 'Serbian language' as the "modern day-to-day speech by ethnic Serbs", or 'Bosnian language' as the "modern day-to-day speech by ethnic Bosniaks". It should simply go into the history section at [[Serbo-Croatian]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:56, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
::::I realize what you're saying. But, at that time (year 1632) name Serbo-Croatian didn't exist. That name appeared maybe 50 yrs ago as political name. We are witnesses that names as Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian have longer history. --[[User:WikiLite91|WikiLite91]] ([[User talk:WikiLite91|talk]]) 13:22, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
:::::Articles are not about names, but about concepts, so whether a ''name'' existed at some time or not is quite irrelevant. (the term "Serbo-Croatian" actually appeared in the 19th century, but, as I said, that's irrelevant to this question). --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:26, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
:::::: Come on man, why do you keep Serbo-Croatian as living language. You can nowhere find it's use today. --[[User:WikiLite91|WikiLite91]] ([[User talk:WikiLite91|talk]]) 13:45, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
:::::::Because ''it is''. In Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, and Montenegro it is alive and kicking, spoken by many millions of people. It may not locally be referred to by "Serbo-Croatian", but terms or names are ''irrelevant'': There is a common language spoken in said countries, regardless of what it is called, and regardless of feelings of natives. Put a Serb somewhere in Croatia, and he'll communicate just fine with the locals, so ''by definition'' they speak the same language, regardless of ethnicity, history, wishful thinking, etc. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:12, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
::::::::Again, I have knowledge about that. But no Serb will tell you he speaks Serbo-Croatian, nor Croat, nor Bosniak. And history about language is more than relevant to stay on Wikipedia. "Old Bosnian", as you say, is spoken on today's land of Bosnia and it has bigger factor than Serbo-Croatian. So history about [[Muhamed Hevaji Uskufi Bosnevi]] should be on Bosnian language site, not Serbo-Croat. Do you mind if at that times Bosnian was not booked somewhere (by ISO std.)? I still cannot find [[Latin]] language [http://www-01.sil.org/iso639-3/codes.asp here], but it has article and history here. Or you are trying to change history? Also I realized that whatever I say, you will abandon, and proove me wrong with some weak refs. Are you Serb or Croat? --[[User:WikiLite91|WikiLite91]] ([[User talk:WikiLite91|talk]]) 15:38, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::Again, this is not about terms or self-designations. Whether a Serb will tell he speaks Serbian, not Serbo-Croatian, does not affect that the language, as defined as a set of mutually intelligible dialects, is Serbo-Croatian (it could have been called something else (''in English''), but this does not affect the facts). Whether a 17th-century dictionary had the most profound effect on only a part of the Serbo-Croatian-speaking area does not affect whether something is a language (again as defined above). 
:::::::::That the terms are the same to refer to what's in this dictionary and the standard language of a modern state does not mean that the dictionary's stuff should appear on the article about the modern standard language. It's like treating Ancient Macedonian (related to Greek) at the Macedonian language article (the latter is, as you'll know, Slavic). --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:50, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
{{od}}I think your argument is invalid, because [http://bs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosanski_jezik Wikipedia on Bosnian] added edits about [[Muhamed Hevaji Uskufi Bosnevi]]'s book as oldest [[vocabulary]] of [[south-eastern Europe]], and Croats/Serbs don't accept it as their vocabulary because he was Bosniak. This happened in 1600's and Serbo-Croat appeared in 1800's. Language of those times is now root of today's standard Bosnian. --[[User:WikiLite91|WikiLite91]] ([[User talk:WikiLite91|talk]]) 22:43, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
:The Croatian, Bosnian, and Serbian Wikipedia's are infested (excuse the word) by POV nationalists who'd like to make the world believe that they speak different languages altogether, which is just ridiculous when you look at the facts. I'll stress again that the Serbo-Croatian language developed long before the ''term'' "Serbo-Croatian" emerged, in early forms roughly a millennium ago or so. However, if words in that dictionary have been used only Bosniaks ever since that time, it may be possible to mention it as a source of Bosnian-specific vocabulary, but only if that assertion itself is sourceable. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:06, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

== kung-fu ==

* [[File:Qc-kung-fu.oga]]

[kɔ̜ŋfu] or [kɔ̜ŋɡfu]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 13:21, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
:I hear no [g]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

== Bosnian ==

You've made mistake. Bosnian is notable among Serbian and Croatian by using Turkish and German phrases. Read second part of [[Bosnian language|article]].  <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:WikiLite91|WikiLite91]] ([[User talk:WikiLite91|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/WikiLite91|contribs]]) 15:56, 16 April 2014 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Where? The only thing I see is the sentence ".... also contains a number of Germanisms not often heard in Croatian or Serbian, which was in use since the Austro-Hungarian Empire." in the second paragraph, which uses a ref that does not say anything remotely like that (check it out: [https://ia600307.us.archive.org/35/items/pangermanismitsp00andlrich/pangermanismitsp00andlrich.pdf]). Even if nevertheless true, it is a matter of degree and should be noted as such. But first it requires an actual source. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:05, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

== boîte ==

* [[File:FR-boîte (Gaspésie).ogg]]

This pronunciation is [bwɛɪ̯t] or [bwɐɪ̯t]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 01:25, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
:More like [bwʚɪ̯t], the vowel is definitely rounded. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:52, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

== tête ==

* http://www.forvo.com/word/tête/#fr

That Canadian pronunciation is [tæɪ̯t] or [tɐɪ̯t] ? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 20:50, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

== Spotlight effect ==

A new group in my History of Psychology class has totally rewritten this article. They are in a bit of a quandry because they think the existing article should just be deleted and replaced by theirs. I recommended they get advice from you on this issue. The new article is much better and I hope it meets with your approval. [[User:James Council|J.R. Council]] ([[User talk:James Council|talk]]) 19:09, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

The link to my sandbox, the updated version of Spotlight Effect:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MarindaKB/sandbox

I think it's best to delete the existing article entirely, and replace it with our updated version. I know that's not typically the best option, but in this case we recycled the information and entirely reformatted it…Thoughts?
[[User:MarindaKB|MarindaKB]] ([[User talk:MarindaKB|talk]]) 19:37, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

== "A" vs "the" ==

"A language"/ "a dialect" is the way we speak about languages. "English is '''''a''''' West Germanic language that was first spoken in early medieval England and is now a global lingua franca", NOT "English is '''''the''''' West Germanic language that was first spoken in early medieval England and is now a global lingua franca". There are no other "West Germanic languages that were first spoken in early medieval England and are now a global lingua franca". 

"Sicilian (lu sicilianu, Italian: lingua siciliana, also known as Siculu or Calabro-Sicilian) is a Romance language. "

[[User:Rui Gabriel Correia|Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia]] ([[User talk:Rui Gabriel Correia|talk]]) 23:52, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

:That sentence appears to try to say things that should, that way, be put into two sentences: 1) "English is a West Germanic language", 2) "It was first spoken [...]". If properly put into a single sentence, it should become "''the'' West Germanic language that [whatever uniquely specifies it). "Sicilian is a Romance language" quite correctly uses "a", although a proper ''definition'', which the first sentence of the lead should give, should uniquely specify which Romance language it is. "It is the way we do it" is a void argument. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:52, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
::Ok, show me what you are made of - go to [[English language]] and change "English is a West Germanic language" to "English is the West Germanic language". Please, do it. [[User:Rui Gabriel Correia|Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia]] ([[User talk:Rui Gabriel Correia|talk]]) 10:34, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
:::I'm thorough. The problem with that sentence is that, as I said, there are two sentences put in one. All information in both is so prominent as to merit first-sentence position. I have not yet figured out how to resolve this (else I would already have changed it).
:::Let's analyze the situation using a simple example:
::::''Give me a book.'' – "a book", not specified any further.
::::''Give me a book that is on the table.'' – specifies a set from which to choose a book (those that are on the table).
::::''Give me the book that is on the table.'' – ''the'' indicates that there is only one book on the table. Now "that is on the table" identifies uniquely which book I'm requesting, whereas earlier it was used to specify the set from which to choose.
:::Now, this shows the meaning of the word ''the'' vs. ''a''. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 12:39, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

JorisvS, let's look at this sentence:
;The olive tree is *a* tree that grows [..where ..] of [..metres ..] heihgt, and ... produces a fruit from which olive oil is extracted. 
*The first part tells us that the olive tree is a tree, one among many - easy enough
*The second part contains additional information that points to a specific tree
*Logically, from the second part we can dedude that there is only ONE such tree
*That being the case, the first part should read "the olive tree is '''the''' tree ...
*I fully agree with you there. But, when the two are thrown together, we have to treat them as separate sentences, one with an indefinite article, the other with the definite article. 
*The article is available in 13 languages. I can't read Polish or Russian, I can read all remaining 11. Latin and Esperanto don't use articles, so 9 languages of the 11 that I can read use articles. Of these, Venetian and Lombardian (2 out of 9) say it is "'''the''' tree"; all others (7 out of 9) say it is "'''a''' tree". 
*Regards, [[User:Rui Gabriel Correia|Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia]] ([[User talk:Rui Gabriel Correia|talk]]) 00:16, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

== May 2014 ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=607627123 your edit] to [[List of contemporary ethnic groups]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 2 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:List of contemporary ethnic groups|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].</span>
{{{!}} class="navbox collapsible collapsed" style="text-align: left; border: 1px solid silver; margin-top: 0.2em;" {{!}}-
! style="background-color: #FAA;" {{!}} <div style="font-size:112%;">List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page<span style="font-size:88%;margin-left:3em;">(Click show <span style="font-size:130%;">⇨</span>)</span></div>    
{{!}}-
{{!}} style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white; " {{!}} <div style="font-size:112%;">
*<nowiki>10.4 M in  Tunisia </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>also identified as [[Arab-Berber]],</nowiki>
*<nowiki>[[Arabized]] in the course of the [[Islamic conquests]]; status as an ethnic group doubtful </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>Arabs in the narrow ethnic sense are [[Bedouin]], numbering c. 20 million; the equation of all</nowiki>
*<nowiki>about 16 million [[ethnic Russians in post-Soviet states]] </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>8 M in Ukraine, 4.5 M in Kazakhstan, 1 M in Belarus, 0.6 M Latvia, 0.6 M in Uzbekistan, 0.6 M in</nowiki>
*<nowiki>| [[Javanese people|Javanese]] || [[Austronesian languages|Austronesian]] </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>[[Malayo-Polynesian languages|Malayo-Polynesian]] || [[Javanese language|Javanese]], [[Indonesian</nowiki>
*<nowiki>| 42 million </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>11&amp;ndash;100  million<ref></nowiki>
*<nowiki>|[[Pashtuns]] || [[Indo-European languages|Indo-European]] </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>[[Eastern Iranian languages|Eastern]] [[Iranian languages|Iranian]] || [[Pashto]], [[Pashto</nowiki>
*<nowiki>, 4.5 million in Canada and up to 1 million in Argentina. The UK census does not record ethnicity </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>other than generic "[[White British]]", and an unknown number of people in the UK identify as Irish</nowiki>
*<nowiki>[[Mandé peoples]] 30 million (it's a phylum, the largest group are the </nowiki>{{red|'''&#91;&#91;'''}}<nowiki>Mandinka people with 13 million)</nowiki>
*<nowiki>also many sub-ethnicities begin to appear at this scale. </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>e.g. list 30 million Irish Americans as a 30M group in their own right rather than a questionable</nowiki>
</div>
{{!}}}
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow [[User:BracketBot#Opting out|these opt-out instructions]]. Thanks, <!-- (2, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 13:36, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
:{{Fixed}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:39, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

== pêche ==

* [[File:Qc-Pêche.oga]]

Last time, you told me [päɪ̯ʃ], but [pɐɪ̯ʃ] is more exact ? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 12:53, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

== S/C family ==

Hello. I see you have a good knowledge about linguistics. Could you tell me why is it on the [[Serbo-Croatian]] family languages written all the dialects? I mean, shouldn't it be only language groups and not dialects? Only enwiki promotes all the "families" of dialects, and I can't find it on dewiki, shwiki etc. --[[User:MunjaWiki|MunjaWiki]] ([[User talk:MunjaWiki|talk]]) 23:00, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
: I don't understand your question. What is it you ask? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:01, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

==Italo-Dalmatian==
{{discussion top}}
'''[[User:JorisvS]]: Why have you deleted a large portion of [[Italo-Dalmatian_languages]] as rv? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Italo-Dalmatian_languages&oldid=627252316 My edits are not vandalism. Saying vague things like blah blah doesn't help. I shall explain the meaning behind the various sections to you, from https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Italo-Dalmatian_languages&oldid=627241133'''

'''''Please note Italo-Dalmatian = Italian Romance plus Dalmatian, in case you didn't realise!''''' 

'''''Italian Dialects or Languages''. This explains about the various Italian Romance languages, which are all part of Italo Dalmatian!'''
{{Selfref|Also see [[Regional Italian]].}}
The Italian Dialects are the different linguistic [[Variety (linguistics)|varieties]] of Italian spoken in [[Italy]]. '''They correspond to the languages classified as being Italian Romance (or Italo-Romance), and hence Italo-Dalmatian.''' '''This explains why the Italian dialects must be discussed as part of Italo-Dalmatian'''.  Although they are labelled as dialects ''(It. dialetti)'', they can also be considered as individual languages, as they can differ widely from [[Standard Italian]].<ref name=Glottolog2.3 /> They do not include the [[Sardinian language]]. '''This explains why the Italian romance languages are sometimes called dialects.'''

The meaning of the “Italian Dialects” is not that of merely cataloguing the different linguistic varieties spoken in Italy, but instead of cataloguing the linguistic varieties spoken in Italy that are considered to be Italian in nature. But there is no absolute judge of which varieties are Italian in nature, as there is no means of creating a clear consensus. But some varieties are not considered to be Italian varieties, but are instead considered as being non-Italian varieties which are traditionally spoken in Italy. This is often the case when languages originate from outside of Italy. '''This section explains why this is sometimes disagreements over which languages consist of Italo-Romance.'''

The [[Gallo-Italic languages]], and the [[Venetian language]], are considered to be Northern Italian Dialects.<ref name=Tagliavini /> But they are also considered to be [[Western Romance languages|Western Romance]] languages. So it is possible to classify them as being both Western Romance and Italian Romance. '''This explains why the Gallo-Italic languages can be thought of being both Italian Romance and Western Romance.'''

[[Regional Italian]] has a different meaning: it is the varieties of Standard Italian, which is based on the [[Florentine dialect]] of [[Tuscan language|Tuscan]], spoken in different Italian regions, which have had influences from the traditional local Italian dialects. So they are similar to Standard Italian except for some local influences. '''Explains the difference between Italian dialects (same as Italian Romance) and Regional Italian.'''

There are two major groups of Italian Dialects spoken in Italy: the Northern (Settentrionale) dialects; and the Central-Southern (Centro-Meridionale) dialects. They are divided by the [[La Spezia–Rimini Line]], which is an [[isogloss]], a geographical line that divides the Italian dialects in terms of linguistics. It roughly follows the divide between the [[Regions of Italy|Italian regions]] of Tuscany and Emilia-Romagna. The line can also be thought as dividing the [[Western Romance]] from the Central (Italo-Dalmation) Romance, [[Sardinian language|Sardinian Romance]] and [[Eastern Romance]], the main four groups of [[Romance languages]]. '''Explians why the Gallo-Italic languages and Venetian are traditionally thought as being Western Romance, despite being also called Italian dialects.'''

===Northern Italian Dialects or Languages===

'''The [[Gallo-Italic languages]] and the [[Venetian language]] are considered to be Northern dialects of the [[Italian language]], hences Italian Romance, hence Italo-Dalmatian. Expalins why Gallo-Italic languages should be discussed under Italo-Romance'''<ref name= Tagliavini /> But they are also considered to be [[Western Romance]] languages.<ref name= Tagliavini>Carlo Tagliavini, Le origni delle lingue neolatine, Bologna, Pàtron, 19726, p. 396.</ref>
*The [[Gallo-Italic languages]] of [[Emiliano-Romagnolo language|Emiliano-Romagnolo]], [[Ligurian (Romance language)|Ligurian ''(Ligure)'']], [[Lombard language|Lombard ''(Lombardo)'']] (includes [[Milanese dialect|Milanese]]), and [[Piedmontese language|Piedmontese ''(Piemontese)'']], the regional languages of the [[Italian regions]] of [[Emilia-Romagna]], [[Liguria]], [[Lombardy]] and [[Piedmont]]. These are usually thought of being [[Western Romance languages]], often included in [[Gallo-Romance]]. '''But they are also considered to be dialects of Italian.<ref name=Renzi /> Explains why they could also be considered Italian Romance.''' They have features of both [[Gallo-Romance]] languages and other Italo-Dalmation languages.
*The [[Venetian language]] ''(It. Veneto)'', the regional language of the [[Venice]] and the [[Veneto]] region of Italy. This language is usually considered as [[Western Romance]], '''but is also considered to be a dialect of Italian. Explains why it can be called Italian Romance.'''<ref name="Tagliavini" /> It is sometimes placed in [[Gallo-Italic]], but is more often thought as being seperate from Gallo-Italic.<ref name =Renzi>Lorenzo Renzi, Nuova introduzione alla filologia romanza, Bologna, Il Mulino, 1994, p. 176 </ref> It has features of the Italo-Dalmation languages [[Istriot]] and [[Tuscan language|Tuscan]].
*[[Istriot language|Istriot]] ''(It. Istriota)'', spoken on the [[Istria|Istrian peninsula]] of [[Croatia]], [[Slovenia]], and [[Italy]]. It '''is usually classified as Italo-Dalmation, so should be discussed as a Northern Italian dialect.'''<ref name=Glottolog2.3 /> It has some similarity to the [[Venetian language]].

'''Some other Romance languages are spoken in North Italy, but are not included in the Northern Italian Dialects, being seen as Gallic languages.<ref name= Tagliavini /> Explains why there is confusion over which languages comprise of the Northern Italian Dialects''' Also, some Non-Romance languages are also spoken. See the [[languages of Italy]]. --[[User:Mrjulesd|Mrjulesd]] ([[User talk:Mrjulesd|talk]]) 08:42, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
{{reflist}}


:You can copy-paste your text on my talk page and bold some things, but my answer remains as simple as I've given twice before in the edit summaries: It is off-topic. I'll explain how it is off-topic, though: That article is about a branch of Romance languages, specifically the [[Italo-Dalmatian languages]]. Information about [[Gallo-Italic languages|Gallo-Italic]] should not be in there, unless Italo-Dalmatian languages are compared to each other and to languages belonging to other branches. ''Dialetti italiani'' is Italian [[WP:POV|POV]] for the Romance languages spoken in Italy, which are vastly more different than anything rightfully called "dialects", at least in its English meaning, and so this has, again, no bearing on this article. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:37, 27 September 2014 (UTC)


:* '''Comment:''' You're wrong, and I'll explain why.

::(i) Firstly you've only addressed the Gallo-Italic languages. There is a whole host of other matters, that i have highlighted in bold. Why don't you discuss all these? Pleae go through all the points I've raised.

::(ii) The Italian Dialects are ''not'' the same as the Romance languages spoken in Italy. ''Dialetti italiani'' is '''not''' Italian [[WP:POV|POV]] for the Romance languages spoken in Italy.I've researched this thoroughly. For example, in Northern Italy, [[Rhaeto-Romance languages]] [[Ladin]] and [[Frulian]], [[Arpitan]] and the [[French language]] are all Romance languages, and are all spoken in Northern Italy. But only the [[Gallo-Italic languages]] and [[Venetian]] are included in the Northern Dialcts of the Italian Language. I can give you sources if you want. Look at the sources I've given, or if not available please look at http://www.evolpub.com/Italiandialects/ITALdial.html . It makes it quite clear that the Northern Dialects are regarded as dialects of the Italian language, while [[Rhaeto-Romance languages]] [[Ladin]] and [[Friulian]], [[Arpitan]] and the [[French language]] are not. In addition, [[sardinian]] is a Romance language spoken in Italy, but is not included in the Italian dialects or Italian Romance. Also, [[Corsican]] is not spoken in Italy ([[Corsica]] is a French Island) but is considered an Italian dialect. The confusion arises becuase they are North of the [[La Spezia–Rimini Line]], so are also thought as being [[Western Romance]]. But you will note that according to modern classification, a [[superfamily]] of [[Italo-Western]] puts Italo-Dalmatian and Western together, basically considering them as the same thing. This is now accepted on most sites I've visited. Read about this if you really belive there is a strong divide between the Northern Dialcts and the Central-Southern Dialects. They are certainly not accepted by the Italians. Also languages like [[Venetian]] are quite close to [[Tuscan]] and [[Istriot]]. Also look at [[Venetian language]] ''"Venetian is a Romance language and therefore descends from [[Vulgar Latin]]. Specifically, it belongs to the [[Italo-Romance]] group, most closely related to Istriot on the one hand and Tuscan–Italian on the other.<ref>[[Carlo Tagliavini]], ''Le Origini delle Lingue Neolatine"''.</ref>'' Also look at [[Gallo-Italic_languages]] ''" Most commonly, they are grouped with the [[Gallo-Romance languages]],<ref name="ethnologue1">[[Ethnologue]], [http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=1727-16 report for Gallo-Italian]</ref> but some Italian linguists prefer to group them with the [[Italo-Romance languages]].<ref>For example, Giovan Battista Pellegrini, [[Tullio De Mauro]], Maurizio Dardano, Tullio Telmon (see Enrico Allasino et al. [http://213.254.4.222/cataloghi/pdfires/697.pdf ''Le lingue del Piemonte''], IRES – Istituto di Ricerche Economico Sociali del Piemonte, Torino, 2007, p. 9) and Vincenzo Orioles (see [http://www.orioles.it/materiali/pn/Class_dialetti_it.pdf ''Classificazione dei dialetti parlati in Italia'']).</ref> ".
''
::Please read the following, i assume you can read Italian. Carlo Tagliavini, Le origni delle lingue neolatine, Bologna, Pàtron, 19726, p. 396. «Col nome di dialetti settentrionali o alto-italiani intendiamo i dialetti gallo-italici, il Veneto e l'Istriano [lege: Istriot language].» Also read Lorenzo Renzi, Nuova introduzione alla filologia romanza, Bologna, Il Mulino, 1994, p. 176 «I dialetti settentrionali formano un blocco abbastanza compatto con molti tratti comuni che li accostano, oltre che tra loro, qualche volta anche alla parlate cosiddette ladine e alle lingue galloromanze [...] Alcuni fenomeni morfologici innovativi sono pure abbastanza largamente comuni, come la doppia serie pronominale soggetto (non sempre in tutte le persone)[...] Ma più spesso il veneto si distacca dal gruppo, lasciando così da una parte tutti gli altri dialetti, detti gallo-italici.»

:: (iii) Please explain the additional points raised, there are a lot of additional highlights in the above section I would like to discuss. Please check all the references if you want to understand things. --[[User:Mrjulesd|Mrjulesd]] ([[User talk:Mrjulesd|talk]]) 10:58, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
:::Could you try to make your point with less text, please? That focuses the discussion. 
:::(ii) Okay, ''dialetti italiani'' is especially used to refer to those languages that do not have political recognition (as the result from previous lengthy discussions and arguments at [[Italian dialects]]). Quoting the English Wikipedia does not help, because it has self-corrected to use the linguistic definition of what are languages. No matter anyway, because it is all wholly irrelevant to an article ''about a specific branch of Romance languages''. 
:::(i) "Firstly you've only addressed the Gallo-Italic languages.". Just an example. Any other branch will do.
:::(iii) Make your points succinctly and I will. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:17, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

:::*'''Comment: Please answer my questions!'''
::::(ii) You're wrong about political recognition. [[Sardinian]] is recognised politically, but is not an Italian dialect. Look at any text book. Also, look at the huge number of examples and references that I've given. I ddn't just quote english wikipedia, I just pointed out that not even wikipedia articles supported your position. Look at all the references I have supplied!
::::(i) Thats not good enough. I asked you specific questions and your refuse to answer.
::::(iii)Succinctly, I have explained to you following:
::::The Italian Dialects are the different linguistic varieties of Italian spoken in Italy. They correspond to the languages classified as being Italian Romance (or Italo-Romance), and hence Italo-Dalmatian. 
::::Why there is sometimes disagreements over which languages consist of Italo-Romance.
::::Why the Gallo-Italic languages can be thought of being both Italian Romance and Western Romance.
::::The difference between Italian dialects (same as Italian Romance) and Regional Italian.
::::Italo-Dalmatian = Italian Romance plus Dalmatian. Italian Romance = Dialetti italiani.
::::Why many Romance languages spoken in Italy are not considered to be Italian dialects.
::::That italo-Western is now supported by most linguists.
::::Please look at my examples for why these are true. --[[User:Mrjulesd|Mrjulesd]] ([[User talk:Mrjulesd|talk]]) 11:53, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
{{reflist}}
{{discussion bottom}}
Discussion continued at [[Talk:Italo-Dalmatian languages]] --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:12, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

===Suggest consolidation===
JorvisvS, may I suggest you close this discussion on your talk page using {{tlx|discussion top}} / {{tlx|discussion bottom}} templates with a pointer to the article talk page [[Talk:Italo-Dalmatian_languages#RV.3F|where the discussion is continuing]] with multiple parties?  [[User Talk:DissidentAggressor|The Dissident Aggressor]] 20:10, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
:{{Done}}. Good suggestion. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:12, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

== NFCC issues ==

Please note that [[WP:NFCC]]#9 straightforwardly prohibits the use of nonfree images outside articlespace, including use in templates. Non-free content policy also does not make exceptions based on educational-use-only licenses. Using a nonfree file in a template is automatically detected and reported; even if I were to ignore it, another editor would soon repeat the removal. [[User:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz|The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo)]] ([[User talk:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz|talk]]) 13:06, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
:It is stupid not to make a distinction between images that have no free license at all and those that are free-to-use for educational purposes. But okay, ''you'''re enforcing this without regard to specifics and makes that template useless, so have the guts to take the next logical step: propose it for deletion! --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:15, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

== vert ==

* [[File:Qc-vert.oga]]

This pronunciation is [vɛ̈ːχ], [væːχ] or [vɑɛ̯χ]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 22:02, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
:More like [vɑə̯ʀ̆]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:55, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

== caisse ==

* [[File:FR-Caisse (Gaspésie).ogg]]

[kɛs] or [kɛːs]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 18:30, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
:Phonetically something in between, I'd say. [kɛˑs]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:41, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

* [[File:Fr-glaçon-ca-Montréal.ogg]]

[ɡla.sõʊ̯̃] or [ɡla.sɒ̃ʊ̯̃]? [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 18:50, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

:It's hard to tell. [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 11:37, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
::The first part is [glæs...], but I can't quite determine the final part. I've a hard time hearing a diphthong but can't fully exclude the possibility. A syllabic nasal like [ŋ̍] with some specifics may also be a possibility. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:15, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

:::Maybe [ɡlæ̞sɔ̃]. [[User:Fort123|Fort123]] ([[User talk:Fort123|talk]]) 16:33, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
::::Possibly not 100% accurate, but useful for all intents and purposes, I guess. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:36, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

== Saraiki language ==

Dear, Saraiki is a language according to  so many references given. so do not remove that.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/182.186.12.43|182.186.12.43]] ([[User talk:182.186.12.43|talk]]) 09:25, 1 October 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Mass blanking is not constructive and so no option for you. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:36, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

== A kitten for you! ==

[[File:Iris cat.jpg|left|150px]]
Thank you for the Thanks !!!

[[User:Adjutor101|Adjutor101]] ([[User talk:Adjutor101|talk]]) 18:34, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
<br style="clear: both;"/>
:Thank you! --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:35, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

== Re: Mass removal of language articles by Ryulong ==

Hi. I noticed that you reverted my revertion on [[Kunigami language]][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kunigami_language&diff=prev&oldid=628477512]. Ryulong is indeed acting as a vandal. Without justifiable reason, he is mass-removing content with reliable sources (I found that I have cited 21 unique sources).

When we have two competing versions of an article, article with and without much information, it is reasonable to choose the former as a working version. I have never heard of any restrictive policy in Wikipedia: we can add content only if we reach consensus to do so. Quite the opposite. We can freely add content and remove it only if we reach consensus to do so.

And actually, the discussion is going on at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Languages#Mass deletion of language articles by Ryulong]]. I appreciate if you share your opinion with us. Thank you. --[[User:Nanshu|Nanshu]] ([[User talk:Nanshu|talk]]) 11:32, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
:I don't want to take sides content-wise, but he is not a vandal. Read up on [[WP:Vandalism]]. Specifically, "in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia" does not apply. Accusing someone of vandalism should not be done lightly. He is not 'deleting' those articles, only reverting your edits to them. In your case there is a content dispute, which should be worked out on the talk page. Size per se does not mean anything, because a lenghty article can be inaccurate and a short article accurate (just as the other way around). The default stance is that in case of a content dispute, the long-standing version is kept while it is worked out on the talk page. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:46, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

::Thank you for your answer. But I disagree with you over the-long-standing-version argument. Is it backed by an official policy? And even if we take that policy, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kunigami_language&oldid=625315833 this version] was there for nearly a month. --[[User:Nanshu|Nanshu]] ([[User talk:Nanshu|talk]]) 14:34, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
:::[[WP:BRD]] discusses the BOLD, revert, discuss cycle. After step two, the revert, the article is back at its original. It does not really matter much after how much time the edit was reverted: It has now been contested and should be discussed at the talk page. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:40, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

== which or that ==

Please produce a citation supporting your claim about restrictive clauses. It is not mentioned in any dictionary I have seen, and is not used in British English - not even at Oxford University, of which I am a graduate. [[User:DOwenWilliams|DOwenWilliams]] ([[User talk:DOwenWilliams|talk]]) 14:24, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
:I should add that "which" is commonly used also in restrictive clauses, but that there is a better, non-ambiguous alternative available (like since vs. because and while vs. whereas). This means that I did not technically "correct" anything, only polished it. [[English relative clauses]] discusses this and it also noted at [[wikt:which]], for example. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:32, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

::"Polishing" is a matter of taste.

::I took a quick look at [[English relative clauses]]. As far as I could see, it draws only on U.S. sources. This strengthens my conviction that this is an American preference, which is not generally known, and certainly not observed, by British writers, even highly educated ones. To Brits, there is no reduction of ambiguity from using "that" instead of "which", or the other examples you mentioned (using another Americanism, "vs.").

::If I ever dig myself out from the pile of stuff I have to do, I'll come back to this.

::Best.

::[[User:DOwenWilliams|DOwenWilliams]] ([[User talk:DOwenWilliams|talk]]) 14:15, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
:::Many (possibly more British people, but Americans too) do not make much of a distinction, but AFAIK it is never actually wrong to construct a sentence with "that" for a restrictive instance without a preposition or a sentence with "which" in a non-restrictive instance, regardless of one's form of English. So, given that some readers do make a distinction and others don't, it does not hurt when the text formally makes a distinction. 
:::I'm curious, if "vs." is an Americanism, what would a Brit use? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:53, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

::::They abbreviate "versus" just to the letter "v". Take a look at the sports section on bbc.com. You'll probably find several examples. [[User:DOwenWilliams|DOwenWilliams]] ([[User talk:DOwenWilliams|talk]]) 19:08, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
:::::Thank you. It is not noted at Wiktionary [[wikt:versus]] and related pages, nor at [[Comparison of American and British English]]. Maybe you could (help) fix this? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:21, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for October 9==

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited [[Bolognese dialect]], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page [[Labio-velar consonant]]. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the [[User:DPL bot/Dablink notification FAQ|FAQ]]{{*}} Join us at the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|DPL WikiProject]].</small>

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:{{Done|Fixed}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:31, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
== Broken brackets ==

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*<nowiki>espanoles-9291/ 1915: Descubrimiento del primer asteroide por científicos españoles]</ref><ref></nowiki>{{red|'''&#91;'''}}<nowiki>http://lascronicasdethot.blogspot.nl/2012/05/josep-comas-sola-villa-urania-barcelona.html Villa</nowiki>
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:{{Done|Fixed}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:53, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
== Broken brackets 2 ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=629632337 your edit] to [[Ranglong language]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:Ranglong language|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].</span>
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*<nowiki>'''Ranglong''' is an unclassified </nowiki>{{red|'''&#91;'''}}<nowiki>[Sino-Tibetan languages|Sino-Tibetan] (possibly [[Kukish languages|Kukish]]) language of Burma.</nowiki>
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:{{Done|Fixed}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:16, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Barnstar of Diligence Hires.png|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Barnstar of Diligence'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Thank you for your efforts on "Urdu" [[User:Adjutor101|Adjutor101]] ([[User talk:Adjutor101|talk]]) 00:34, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
|}
:Thank you! --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:16, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

== Fehrenbach's star ==

Well there you go.  Good research.  Here is the Simbad page for it [http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/sim-id?Ident=HD+116745&NbIdent=1&Radius=2&Radius.unit=arcmin&submit=submit+id].  Still, a little obscure, no Wikipedia page, and the reference was messed up so it needed editing anyway. Not strictly a supergiant, but an interesting proto-planetary nebula.  [[User:Lithopsian|Lithopsian]] ([[User talk:Lithopsian|talk]]) 10:35, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

== Foxtail millet ==

Since Kwami seems to be less active these days, I thought I'd ask you about the latest edit to [[Foxtail millet]]. I wonder whether the addition of "spoken" and "written" was necessary. Thanks. [[User:CorinneSD|CorinneSD]] ([[User talk:CorinneSD|talk]]) 21:54, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
:For one, separate mentions of 'Mandarin' and 'Chinese' makes no sense whatsoever. Chinese is a language family more diverse than the Romance languages in which Mandarin is one group. Standard Chinese is more or less the Beijing dialect/variety of Mandarin. I don't think adding 'spoken' or 'written' makes much sense: both lines are in written language, after all. The problem is the extreme ambiguity of the 'Chinese' mention: ''which'' form of Chinese is intended? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:02, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
::Thanks for your reply. I wondered about that mention of "Chinese", too. Do you know an editor who could help sort this out? [[User:CorinneSD|CorinneSD]] ([[User talk:CorinneSD|talk]]) 22:40, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
:::No, I don't. Also, the tones are lacking from the "Chinese" mention, which means it is sure to be at least somewhat wrong. I've cleaned up that section and removed that entry. If someone likes to readd it, s/he should specify which form of Chinese. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:59, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
::::You did a great job! [[User:CorinneSD|CorinneSD]] ([[User talk:CorinneSD|talk]]) 17:42, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

==Disruption by User Nestwiki on Urdu==
User Nestwiki is continuously spreading inaccurate info on Urdu. I have given him a warning on his talk page, but I don't think it will be fruitful. He has recieved several other warnings to for other vandalisms. What do you suggest our course of action should be to safeguard [[Urdu]] from further Vandalism. Regards !
[[User:Adjutor101|Adjutor101]] ([[User talk:Adjutor101|talk]]) 02:50, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
:Maybe [[WP:ANI]]? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:30, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

== Pali ==

I just wondered what you thought of the latest edit to [[Pali]].[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pali&diff=630320305&oldid=628780316] An editor removed a section of text saying that it was unsourced. I know that is often done, but if the information is valuable, perhaps the source can be found. What do you think? [[User:CorinneSD|CorinneSD]] ([[User talk:CorinneSD|talk]]) 15:10, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
:User:Dgdcw seems right in that it looks unsourced. The part saying that "Pali" derives from "Nepali" minus the "Ne" raises doubts about that text for me. That said, it could nevertheless be true, but we don't know. Maybe move to talk page saying that it was removed from the article pending a citation. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:59, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
::O.K. Thanks. [[User:CorinneSD|CorinneSD]] ([[User talk:CorinneSD|talk]]) 16:19, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

== une fête ==

* [[File:FR QC une fête.ogg]]

[ʏn ˈfɛːt] or [ʏn ˈfɜːt]? [[Special:Contributions/138.229.17.197|138.229.17.197]] ([[User talk:138.229.17.197|talk]]) 22:42, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
:Closer to the latter, though I think it is a bit fronted. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:34, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

== Calouste Gulbenkian ==

I wonder if you'd take a look at the latest edit to [[Calouste Gulbenkian]], adding an IPA pronunciation of the name at the beginning of the article. Is that an appropriate edit? [[User:CorinneSD|CorinneSD]] ([[User talk:CorinneSD|talk]]) 01:18, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
:It could be, though it should be formatted somewhat differently. I do wonder about the usefulness of adding IPA for the typical English conversion of orthography to pronunciation, maybe except his first name in term of stress and pronunciation of the <a>. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:53, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
::I think the IPA pronunciation guide may be useful when it is not immediately clear how to pronounce the name, but I think it's pretty clear from the way the name is spelled how to pronounce it in English. I've had this discussion elsewhere, but I'll just mention that Americans generally do not learn the IPA symbols, even when learning a foreign language, so it means nothing to us. I would, of course, search out the IPA symbols if I were puzzled as to how to pronounce a name, but in this case I think it is unnecessary. But I know others do learn the IPA symbols, so I guess it should stay. [[User:CorinneSD|CorinneSD]] ([[User talk:CorinneSD|talk]]) 19:08, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

== chè ==

* [[File:Vi-hanoi-nam-chè.ogg]]

[t͡ʃɛ̈] or [t͡ʃæ]? [[Special:Contributions/138.229.17.197|138.229.17.197]] ([[User talk:138.229.17.197|talk]]) 01:22, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
:The more I listen to it, the more the former vowel appears to sound closer, but the consonant is rather [t͡ɕ]. Vietnamese also has tones, which in this case I think is low-falling. In sum, this gives [t͡ɕɛ̈˧˩]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:08, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

* [[File:En-uk-women.ogg]]

[ˈwɪmɪn] or [ˈwɪmɛn]? [[Special:Contributions/138.229.17.197|138.229.17.197]] ([[User talk:138.229.17.197|talk]]) 23:34, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
:Between [ə] and [ɛ], I think. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:10, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
== Broken brackets 3 ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=631036375 your edit] to [[Modern Greek]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:Modern Greek|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].</span>
:List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:
*<nowiki> A study of dialect of Silly, Cappadocia and Pharasa. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.</ref></nowiki>{{red|'''&#41;'''}}<nowiki>]]</nowiki>
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow [[User:BracketBot#Opting out|these opt-out instructions]]. Thanks, <!-- (-1, 0, 0, 0) --><!-- User:BracketBot/inform -->[[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]] ([[User talk:BracketBot|talk]]) 08:41, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
:{{Done|Fixed}}, same at [[Cappadocian Greek]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:45, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

== baleine ==

* [[File:Qc-baleine.ogg]]

You heard [baɫeɪ̯n] or [baɫeɪ̯nᵊ]? Is there an [ᵊ] at the end? [[Special:Contributions/138.229.17.197|138.229.17.197]] ([[User talk:138.229.17.197|talk]]) 02:05, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
:The [n] has been pronounced rather long, so [nː]. The rest is just noise and the speaker ending his utterance. I think that the /a/ is not fully open, closer to [ɐ], and the /eɪ̯/ is nasalized due to the following /n/. This leads to [bɐɫẽɪ̯nː]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:00, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

::But I heard a extra-short [ᵊ] at the end. [[Special:Contributions/64.18.87.72|64.18.87.72]] ([[User talk:64.18.87.72|talk]]) 16:22, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
:::''Maybe'' the [nː] is more accurately [nn̩]. The rest is really just the speaker ending his utterance. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:10, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

== Why ==

Why on Telugu language you changed M.S. Andronov to Andronov? It was his full name. [[User:నిజానికి|నిజానికి]] ([[User talk:నిజానికి|talk]]) 15:43, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
:That is not his full name, those are initials. Initials are generally not very useful to add. A first name would a whole different story. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:51, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
::He has no page on wiki, would you create one or at least describe something on the reference? I have seen expanded reference and they provide the full name. [[User:నిజానికి|నిజానికి]] ([[User talk:నిజానికి|talk]]) 15:55, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
:::Can't you do that? The first step would be to find out his first name. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:01, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
::::Mikhail Sergeevich Andronov. [[User:నిజానికి|నిజానికి]] ([[User talk:నిజానికి|talk]]) 15:03, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Telugu_language&diff=634514516&oldid=634503226]: I was ordering the names by alphabets. [[User:నిజానికి|నిజానికి]] ([[User talk:నిజానికి|talk]]) 10:23, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
:Okay, thanks. I thought they were ordered by importance, which is a better way, but more careful examination has suggested it really wasn't. I have fixed it. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:04, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

== Wil送 ==

* [[File:Wil送.ogg]]

[wɪlsʊŋ] or [wɪlsɔŋ]? [[Special:Contributions/138.229.17.197|138.229.17.197]] ([[User talk:138.229.17.197|talk]]) 23:10, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
:Clearly the latter. It is also (allophonically) nasalized, so [wɪlsɔ̃ŋ]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:23, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
::Maybe [wɪlso̞ŋ]? [[Special:Contributions/64.18.87.72|64.18.87.72]] ([[User talk:64.18.87.72|talk]]) 16:14, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
:::I tend to agree, though still nasalized. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:12, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

== poutine ==

* [[File:Qc-Poutine.ogg]]

[ˈput͡sɪn] or [ˈput͡sɪnᵊ]? [[Special:Contributions/64.18.87.72|64.18.87.72]] ([[User talk:64.18.87.72|talk]]) 19:15, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
:[pʰuˈt͡sʰɪnʱ]. It ends with aspiration, which could give the impression of a schwa. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:20, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

* [[File:FR-Sept-Îles.ogg]]

[ˈsɛt͡sɪl] or [ˈsɛt͡sɪlᵊ]? [[Special:Contributions/64.18.87.72|64.18.87.72]] ([[User talk:64.18.87.72|talk]]) 19:26, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
:The [l] is very short and followed by some aspiration. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 23:49, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

* [[File:Treize Qc.ogg]]

[tʀ̥äɛ̈z] or [tʀ̥äɛ̈zᵊ]? [[Special:Contributions/138.229.17.197|138.229.17.197]] ([[User talk:138.229.17.197|talk]]) 00:40, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
:Here there is a schwa: the latter. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 00:45, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

* [[File:FQ-parent.ogg]]

[paʁæ̃] or [paʀæ̃]? [[Special:Contributions/64.18.87.72|64.18.87.72]] ([[User talk:64.18.87.72|talk]]) 13:34, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
:It is difficult, because the voicing is strongly aspirated, but I tend towards the latter. The vowels are more or less identical, which gives then gives [pæʀʱæ̃]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:38, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

== Alternative names ==

I think of [[Special:Diff/631622315|these mentions]] as a courtesy to readers, so they don't need to follow the links. When there are only three items in a list, they are really not that excessive and distracting. Especially ''Vogul'' and ''Ostyak'' are really common in older (and Russophone) literature. --[[User:Florian Blaschke|Florian Blaschke]] ([[User talk:Florian Blaschke|talk]]) 15:38, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
:Only a courtesy to older and Russophone readers who are already familiar with the topic, then. Especially to readers who are not familiar with the topic, the majority of people, multiple alternative tends to be distracting and/or confusing, even if there are only a few. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:45, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
::With all due respect, but what exactly is the basis for your assessment that they tend to be distracting/confusing even in a case like this? Have you done surveys? Or is that simply your personal supposition? --[[User:Florian Blaschke|Florian Blaschke]] ([[User talk:Florian Blaschke|talk]]) 16:43, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
:::Without the alternative names, all three can be seen at once, without having to make [[saccade]]s. Saccades are [[eye movement in reading|eye movements used during reading]], among others, and during which one cannot see anything. Saccades take time to make. Once these alternative names are mentioned, one has to make at least one saccade, and many will probably even make two. Aside from taking time, it then takes more effort to process. The overall effect is not huge, but given that it may only add slightly to some of those who are already familiar with the topic, I think the disadvantage outweighs the benefit. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:24, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
::::OK, thanks for the explanation. I already knew what saccades are, but failed to consider the issue from this point of view. --[[User:Florian Blaschke|Florian Blaschke]] ([[User talk:Florian Blaschke|talk]]) 04:13, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

== [[Oort cloud]] and asteroid ==
<big>'''Copied from [[User talk:WilyD/Archives/#Oort cloud and asteroid]]'''</big>

Please explain what you mean exactly with your short "explanations". --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 11:51, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
:[[WP:NOR|Wikipedia is not a place for you to publish your original research]].  In this case, MNRAS, ApJ, AJ, A&A, Icarus, and so on are available for that purpose.  In the interim, articles need to reflect the published ideas of scholars and other authors, and not your own opinion.  [[WP:EDITWAR|Simply repeatedly inserting your own opinion into articles is not allowed, either]].  If you know better than all the scientists and educators who've worked on the subject, publish your work elsewhere first.  [[User:WilyD|Wily]][[User talk:WilyD|<span style="color:#FF8800;">D</span>]] 11:51, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
:It's unclear what's unclear to you.  What you think things should be called doesn't matter unless you publish it in a reliable source; in the interim, it's Paul Weissman's, Hal Levison's, and other people who've published reliable works on the subject whose opinion matters. [[User:WilyD|Wily]][[User talk:WilyD|<span style="color:#FF8800;">D</span>]] 11:57, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
::You're assuming rather bad faith. I'll be more clear to you by reformulation my edit summary another way: How is using the terms "non-outgassing", "minor planet", and using the most common convention for the word "asteroid" and the one Wikipedia uses (!), 'publishing my original research'? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 12:00, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
:::Please don't patronise me.  I'm clearly not assuming bad faith.  You're experienced enough that you should know better than to use Wikipedia as a publisher of your opinion, but you're doing it anyways, and I've given you the benefit of the doubt.  But you know now (or if you're still unfamiliar with [[WP:NOR|the policy on publishing your own research here]], please go read it).  It's not okay to replace the terminology of the literature (and other published sources, I suppose) with one you've cooked up yourself.  [[User:WilyD|Wily]][[User talk:WilyD|<span style="color:#FF8800;">D</span>]] 12:06, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
::::This is exactly what I mean! You don't really explain what is "my own opinion" about it, yet you accuse me of publishing it. I do not see any opinion at all. "Non-outgassing minor planet" is a description, not a term that I've 'cooked up'. Or do you deny that 1996 PW is a) a minor planet, and b) that it does not outgas? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 12:14, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
:::::I'm not saying your conclusions don't flow logically.  I'm merely saying you can't publish your conclusions here first.  Publish them in Monthly Notices (or wherever) first, and then they can be included in Wikipedia.  In the interim, we have to use the conclusions of people like Weissman, Hicks, and so forth, who've done that. [[User:WilyD|Wily]][[User talk:WilyD|<span style="color:#FF8800;">D</span>]] 12:33, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
::::::How so "conclusions"?? You basically keep repeating that, but you don't ''explain'' it. And you should easily have noticed that you should stop responding on my talk page. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 12:37, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
:::::::"Non-outgassing minor planet" is a description, of course, but the word used by scientists and other people familiar with the subject matter is asteroid.  Beyond this, just because a description is accurate doesn't mean it's good - "non-sandwich" or "non-elephant" would obvious be correct descriptors, but would also be horribly misleading.  It's your own conclusion "non-outgassing minor planet" is a good or appropriate descriptor.  This could even be true (it's not - whether or not an object is currently active is not the distinction being drawn in the literature, of course), but it's still your own opinion, and hijacking Wikipedia to publish your own opinions is still not appropriate. [[User:WilyD|Wily]][[User talk:WilyD|<span style="color:#FF8800;">D</span>]] 14:11, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
::::::::"Hijacking Wikipedia"? Seriously?
::::::::But thank you for finally actually responding. "Non-elephant" is vague, whereas "non-outgassing" (arguably better rephrased to "not known to be outgassing") is a specific (non-vague) term used to refer to a characteristic, so your comparison does not hold. The problem with parrotting specific words for specific instances is that it creates a non-uniformity in the meaning of the words, and hence creates unnecessary ambiguity and unnecessarily decreases clarity. Now, "asteroid" has always been a word without an exact definition, but has come to be increasingly referred to those minor planets out to the orbit of Jupiter, see [[asteroid]]. This is also the agreed-upon use on Wikipedia. Other minor planets have also occasionally been referred to as "asteroid", especially those that were discovered early, such as [[944 Hidalgo]] (the first minor planet discovered with a semi-major axis beyond Jupiter's), and "asteroid" is sometimes also used to include all minor planets, including e.g. all Kuiper-belt objects. It is not [[WP:OR|OR]] to avoid referring to these as asteroids; OR refers to the actual ''content'', not the specific terms used (nor the specific punctuation of terms, see e.g. [[Talk:Epstein–Barr virus#Requested move|this discussion]]). Moreover, this term is easily avoided by using more-specific and better-defined words, which increases the informative value to our readers anyway. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 14:47, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::Usurping the devices of Wikipedia to advance your own agenda to it's detriment; yes, hijacking is appropriate here.  "Non-outgassing" is still your own idea, that doesn't come from the source (read the paper - it's like three pages long).  And it's not simply rephrasing - the authors of the source is question would disagree with what you're saying.  The sources say these are asteroids, and don't use outgassing/not outgassing as such a distinction (active asteroids certainly outgas).  It's merely your own conclusion that the entire scientific community is wrong, and your own ideas are in fact right. [[User:WilyD|Wily]][[User talk:WilyD|<span style="color:#FF8800;">D</span>]] 14:55, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::That's, again, assuming bad faith. I'm trying to have a decent discussion ([[WP:EQ]]), in which we can point out errors on each other's parts, without being accused of such strong things as 'hijacking', 'advancing your own agenda', and the like. If you think "non-outgassing" is wrong and should be reworded, perhaps to "without any evidence of cometary activity", just say ''that''. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 15:52, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
{{od}}If it isn't your intention to hijack Wikipedia to publish your own ideas, then stop trying to do it.  It's not hard.  Again, stop throwing transparently bogus charges at me; I haven't said anything about your intent, only factually described your actions.  Beyond that, read Weissman & Levison; it's quite clearl they're talking about asteroids, not just bodies that don't show evidence of cometary activity.  It's not hard to find - it's in the title (and repeatedly thereafter).  Plus, your idea that you're trying to insert isn't even right; asteroids can display cometary activity: [[Active Asteroids]].  If you think they're wrong, find a source that suggests their wrong, don't [[WP:NOR|just keeping trying to argue for your own idea]].  (Of course, I don't believe there are any sources that suggest they're wrong; but you're free to look). [[User:WilyD|Wily]][[User talk:WilyD|<span style="color:#FF8800;">D</span>]] 09:42, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
:"Hijacking", and "publishing my own ideas" is not a factual description of my actions, but ''your interpretation'' of my actions. I have read that article. They primarily use "asteroid" in the sense of a 'rocky minor planet'. This is one of the more common uses of the word "asteroid". However, <u>they do not claim that 1996 PW is an asteroid/rocky minor planet at all!</u> They speculate about the possibility that it is one and compute probabilities. Therefore, it would, in fact, be OR to call 1996 PW an asteroid (as meaning a rocky minor planet) based on that article, because they acknowledge that it could be an extinct comet (icy body). Asteroids that display cometary activity has "asteroid" meaning 'minor planet from the inner Solar System', ''not'' in the sense that Weissman & Levison use it. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 10:49, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
::While they decide they can't tell if 1996 PW is an asteroid or not (and the subsequent papers on the subject run into the same problem),  that's neither here nor there; the work still calculates the expect fraction of asteroids in the Oort cloud, and hasn't been refuted (unless there's something I'm not aware of, which is doubtful).   Weissman & Levison calculate that the Oort cloud should be a couple percent asteroids, which is the state of the art.  This is the idea that the article needs to reflect, not your own ideas about what is or isn't an asteroid.  If you want your ideas of what is or isn't an asteroid to appear in the article, send it to MNRAS first.  [[User:WilyD|Wily]][[User talk:WilyD|<span style="color:#FF8800;">D</span>]] 13:30, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
:::The relevant sentence in the article reads "However, the discovery of the object 1996 PW, an asteroid in an orbit more typical of a long-period comet, suggests that the cloud may also contain rocky objects.", with "an asteroid in an orbit more typical of a long-period comet" ''specifically describing 1996 PW''. This part is therefore <u>simply not supported by the reference</u>, because, per the reference, 1996 PW is not even known to be rocky (or an "asteroid" in Weissman & Levison's words). In sum, regardless of the specific definition of "asteroid" one prefers, the current phrasing is not supported by the reference. 
:::The second part, "suggests that the cloud may also contain rocky objects" is meant to convey that 'the Oort cloud should [contain] a couple percent asteroids'. It is, however, not quite what the reference says. How you have said it is more in line with the reference, though, and more precise. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 13:58, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
::::Hmm, yes, there's a phrasing problem here; 1996 PW's nature is unclear, and subsequent author(s) have interpreted it as an extinct comet nuclei.  The Weissman & Levison paper is about the fraction of the Oort cloud that's composed of asteroids, but the phrasing does need to accomodate 1996 PW appropriately (or not mention it or something). [[User:WilyD|Wily]][[User talk:WilyD|<span style="color:#FF8800;">D</span>]] 13:14, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
:::::How is "with an asteroidal appearance" better than "without observed cometary activity"? Don't say because the source says so, because that is not true: Paragraph 2 reads 'However, physical observations have failed to detect any evidence for cometary activity in 1996 PW.'. Also, logic means that either 'research suggests that something ''is'' the case', or that 'something ''should be'' the case'. As for [[:Category:Asteroids]], it is a subcategory of [[:Category:Minor planets]], which is the more inclusive category (all asteroids are minor planets, but not vice versa). What is your rationale for including it alongside the other? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 15:28, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
::::::The source is pretty clear on drawing the distinction between being asteroidal in appearance and being an extinct comet (as are the follow-up sources, such as Hicks et al.), as they don't mean the same thing.  Try pushing beyond the second paragraph to the third paragraph, where they explicitly contrast "a comet that is no longer outgassing" and "an asteroid" (with two dynamical origins each).  Pushing through the rest of the paper, you'll find it is concerned with how many asteroids end up in the Oort cloud.  It's only four pages long.  If you'd stop relying on your own intuition as to what should or shouldn't be an asteroid, following the literature wouldn't be so hard.  I might agree that Oort cloud should be in minor planets (since it overlaps with nothing there but Asteroids as it stands), but one could probably dig up a paper by Alan Stern or someone on Pluto-analogues in the Oort cloud.  There are some double-categorying in the area (e.g., Asteroids is in [[:Category:Bodies of the Solar System]] and the daughter [[:Category:Minor planets]]), which might be reflective of terminology problems and/or use of obsolete terms (or as yet unsettled terms), I'm not sure.  [[User:WilyD|Wily]][[User talk:WilyD|<span style="color:#FF8800;">D</span>]] 16:35, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
:::::::Sure they talk about how many asteroids end up in the Oort cloud (I've read it). However, those sentences are not specifically about 1996 PW, whereas the one I'm talking about is. I'm only trying to follow the source as truthfully as possible. I'm asking you how your phrasing about 1996 PW is better than mine considering what the reference says. I'm no longer talking about what are most commonly considered asteroids or not, because while discussing this it turned out not to be relevant here at all. Note that Pluto is also a minor planet (it has for example the minor-planet number 134340). Sometimes categories are added somewhat haphazardly and a category a parent category that is also a parent category of another of its parent categories. [[WP:Categorization]] tells that pages should only be in the most specific relevant categories, which means that adding a parent category of a parent category is redundant. That specific case you highlighted is a clear example of that (and hence I've rectified the situation). --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 17:02, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
::::::::1996 PW is a bit of a red herring, since it's nature is never determined (and actually, it's former membership in the Oort cloud is just a probabilistic argument anyways).  The context/paragraph in the article are pretty clear; they're about the composition of Oort cloud bodies, and the question is what fraction of the Oort cloud is cometary nuclei, and what fraction is asteroids.  So you could remove the reference to 1996 PW, and just say "However, calculations of its formation have led to the expectation 1~2% of the bodies are asteroids, not cometary nuclei".  Though I think it adds a bit of flow (and the article is pretty sparse as it is), so I don't particularly think that's a good idea. [[User:WilyD|Wily]][[User talk:WilyD|<span style="color:#FF8800;">D</span>]] 10:12, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::I agree with the rationale for mentioning 1996 PW. Nevertheless, the phrase that directly follows its mention, which you changed to "with an asteroidal appearance", is not about the composition of Oort cloud objects in general at all, but specifically about the nature of 1996 PW. The composition of Oort cloud objects in general is handled after that phrase. The reference talks specifically about the nature of 1996 PW in the second paragraph saying 'However, physical observations have failed to detect any evidence for cometary activity in 1996 PW.', which means that "without observed cometary activity" is most true to the reference. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 13:23, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::Read the source closely and object only using arguments that are actually based on '''facts'''. You'll then see I'm not pushing my own interpretation at all. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 10:31, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::Again, read the paper.  1996 PW ''looked'' like an asteroid.  It was followed up (by other groups, or perhaps Weissman in another paper? or even Levison did observational stuff in those days?) to look for cometary activity.  Which lead Weissman and Levison to calculate a) the fraction of Oort cloud objects that they expect to be asteroids (1~2%), and whether 1996 PW is such an asteroid (50-50).  Merely not being outgassing on it's own is uninteresting, most cometary nuclei aren't outgassing, because they're extinct, or because they're far from the Sun.  Again, read Weissman and Levison, the whole thing.  The repeat the phrase "although asteroidal in appearance, it has a comet-like orbit", it's quite clear that the asteroidal appearance is what's important (and that being asteroidal in appearance is very different from merely not displaying cometary activity).  If the fact that follow-up observations were made is too confusing, [http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/bib_query?arXiv:1410.7403 this more modern reference] ddraws the distinction more clearly. [[User:WilyD|Wily]][[User talk:WilyD|<span style="color:#FF8800;">D</span>]] 10:34, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
{{od}}In what aspect is "asteroidal in appearance" supposed to be different from not displaying cometary activity (which can only happen close to the Sun)? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 10:40, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
:A cheese sandwich does not look like an asteroid, none the less, it does not display cometary activity.  More importantly, [[Extinct comets]] are comets that don't display cometary activity.  There are a lot more considerations; which depend on the thermal history of the body and so on.  Again, I recommend you read the source you keep citing, it's quite clear that the important thing is that it looks like an asteroid but orbits like a comet, which motivates the consideration.  [[User:WilyD|Wily]][[User talk:WilyD|<span style="color:#FF8800;">D</span>]] 10:58, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
::1996 PW also looked/-s like an extinct comet (in fact, follow-up research suggests that it is one). At that distance the only way to distinguish a(n oversized) cheese sandwich from an asteroid is its spectrum. Without a spectrum a cheese sandwich ''does'' look like an asteroid. 1996 PW's spectrum is type D, typical of type-D asteroids ''and extinct comets''. The only thing that really made it 'look like an asteroid' was the lack of cometary activity, which at the time was unexpected for an object in such an orbit. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 11:07, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
:::Again, this is your idea, not found in the paper.  The fact that it looked like an asteroid led Weissman and Levison to consider the question of how many asteroids are in the Oort cloud.  The fact that it also looked like an extinct comet did not lead Weissman and Levison to consider how many asteroids are in the Oort cloud.  The fact that it doesn't have a coma made the asteroidal interpretation more plausible (or at least, if someone looked and found a coma, they'd have concluded it was a mostly extinct comet), but isn't why Weissman and Levison suggested the Oort cloud should be a couple percent asteroids.  With modern hindsight, it reasonable to conclude you shouldn't think about icy asteroids (as the Shannon et al. paper argues), but that's your idea, not Weissman et al.'s.  If they believed then that you can't distinguish D-type asteroids from extinct comets, they wouldn't have done their follow-up observations (e.g., the Hicks paper).  The Weissman paper is quite clear that the asteroidal appearance is why the consider the idea, not merely the lack of coma.  Even if it turns out that calling D-type asteroids is a mistake, we can't send that information back to 1997 to motivate W&L. [[User:WilyD|Wily]][[User talk:WilyD|<span style="color:#FF8800;">D</span>]] 12:04, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
::::You're avoiding the question of what is supposed to be the difference. They knew full well that 1996 PW could turn out to be an extinct comet, but they wanted to figure out the probability that it wasn't one. If 1996 PW could (have) be(en) an asteroid, what is 'icy asteroids' supposed to mean? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 12:17, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
:::::''Again'', if you read the Weissman and Levison paper, you'll find the answer to your question: they define asteroids as objects that formed at less than 5.2 au from the Sun.  Now, I wouldn't do that, but for the purposes of the article, it's good enough, I guess (admittedly the article is not great, but one step at a time).  The [http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/bib_query?arXiv:1410.7403 more recent paper] uses icy/iceless distinction, and gets a similar (though sightly higher) rate.  As far whether there's even a distinction between an extinct comet and a D-type asteroid, my guess is no, but again, my own ideas don't make it into the article until after I publish them, '''and''' it's irrelevant to the question at hand.  The sentence says "Observations of 1996 PW found that it looks like an asteroid, which prompted research that lead to the suggest we should expect 1e-2 of the Oort cloud to be asteroids".  This statement is true, because that observation prompted that research".  The sentence "Observations of 1996 PW found that it didn't have a coma, which prompted research that lead to the suggest we should expect 1e-2 of the Oort cloud to be asteroids" is false, because that observation did not prompt the research.  It is true that it doesn't have a (detected) coma, but that isn't what prompted them to think about asteroids in the Oort cloud.  It's also true that it looks like an extinct comet nucleus, but that isn't what prompted them to think about asteroids in the Oort cloud.  [[User:WilyD|Wily]][[User talk:WilyD|<span style="color:#FF8800;">D</span>]] 14:16, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
::::::I wasn't asking for their definition of 'asteroid', nor whether there is a difference between D-type asteroids and extinct comets. I'll answer it: 'Looks like an asteroid' is not an observation, but an ''interpretation'' of an observation: One can't look and see that 'it looks like an asteroid', one can see something and interpret that as 'it looks like an asteroid'. When another step is inserted, it would be okay; the first step could then be left implicit: "Observations of 1996 PW (found that it didn't have a coma and) were interpreted as asteroidal in appearance, which prompted research that lead to the suggest we should expect 1e-2 of the Oort cloud to be asteroids". However, phrasing it this way is rather clumsy and the current sentence in the article is better anyway. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 14:32, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
:::::::No, that's still wrong.  ''Again'', read the papers.  1996 PW has the colours of a D-type asteroid (within the observational errors & whatnot).  That's what makes it look like an asteroid.  Not having a coma doesn't make you look like an asteroid (e.g., cheese sandwiches).   "Looks like" is somewhat imprecision language, but Weissman is expressing his ideas, not yours. [[User:WilyD|Wily]][[User talk:WilyD|<span style="color:#FF8800;">D</span>]] 14:54, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
::::::::Fine, the spectrum, not the coma (though the article doesn't say what made them interpret it as 'asteroidal in appearance'). The core of what I've said is not affected: 'Looks like an asteroid' is an interpretation regardless and the current phrasing is also better regardless. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 15:02, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

== Mid vowels in a dialect of Bavarian ==
Hello. Do you know which paper describes the {{IPA|/ø - œ - ɶ/}} distinction in the Amstetten dialect of Bavarian? I think I read it once, but don't remember the title anymore. [[User:Peter238|Peter238]] ([[User talk:Peter238|v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊]]) 18:10, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
:I've got the answer: it's ''The Sounds of the World's Languages'', pages 289 and 290. [[User:Peter238|Peter238]] ([[User talk:Peter238|v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊]]) 18:36, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
::{{ec}}Yes, that can be right. This is my little search:
::The mention at [[vowel height]] is uncited. Googling gives [http://scitation.aip.org/content/asa/journal/jasa/69/5/10.1121/1.385780 this], but its abstract is of little help. [http://www.fb10.uni-bremen.de/linguistik/dpng/sites/default/files/dokumente/Durand2005TenseLax-TheEnglishVowelSystemAndPhonologicalTheory.pdf This] mentions that that study of the Amstetten dialect is quoted by Ladefoged and Maddieson[http://books.google.nl/books?hl=nl&lr=&id=fDWXd1VCIo8C&oi=fnd&pg=PA5&dq=amstetten+bavarian+sound&ots=YDCOPGJMsD&sig=6PdmAyO_RKyBxMFbk-5N1DQqBcw#v=onepage&q=amstetten&f=false] and compares it to a certain Danish dialect. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:41, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
:::Ok, that and what is written in the SOWL will do. Thanks! [[User:Peter238|Peter238]] ([[User talk:Peter238|v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊]]) 18:46, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
== Bracket Errors on 8 November ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:BracketBot|BracketBot]]. I have automatically detected that <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=632944246 your edit] to [[Sunwar people]] may have broken the [[syntax]] by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just [{{fullurl:Sunwar people|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+typo+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3ABracketBot%7CBracketBot%5D%5D}} edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new my operator's talk page].</span>
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*<nowiki>The '''Sunwars''' or '''Sunuwars''' </nowiki>{{red|'''&#40;'''}}<nowiki>[[Nepali language|Nepali]]: [[:ne:सुनुवार जाति|सुनुवार जाति]]" are one of the indigenous peoples of</nowiki>
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:{{Done|Fixed}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 12:40, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

== [[Enceladus]] ==

Hi, you [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Enceladus&diff=633125567&oldid=633124446 recently removed] my {{tl|Clarify}} on Enceladus without clarifying the text. Although I agree that the sentence becomes clear later in the article, I don't agree that eventual clarity justifies an ambiguous sentences in the article's lead paragraph. I would encourage you to rephrase that sentence rather than pretending it doesn't need clarification.  Cheers, [[Special:Contributions/71.63.4.110|71.63.4.110]] ([[User talk:71.63.4.110|talk]]) 19:27, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
:I thought it would have to be expanded significantly, which would not be appropriate for the lead section. I now see that it could be made more specific without lengthening it, though it may not need to be mentioned in the lead at all. I'm now going to take a crack at it. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:41, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
::Thank you.  Deferring discussion of the E ring to the second paragraph works well. [[Special:Contributions/71.63.4.110|71.63.4.110]] ([[User talk:71.63.4.110|talk]]) 22:18, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

== Help with [[Alliant Techsystems|ATK]] ==

I am attempting to make some COI edits at ATK. I left the marked-up copy in the talk page. Would you be willing to look at what I did and approve it? Thanks!  [[User:Singaporebobby|Singaporebobby]] ([[User talk:Singaporebobby|talk]]) 18:59, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
:I don't know anything about it, really, and my only edits to that article have been minor copyedits. What I've been able to gauge looks pretty good. If no one answer on the talk page, you could try being [[WP:bold|bold]], note in your edit summaryy our potential COI and that you've already posted on the talk page, and look if anyone responds. If not, everything should be good. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 20:42, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

== 2014 UM33 ==
More information could be added perhaps with the help of [[:fr:2014 UM33]]. Regards.--[[User:Io Herodotus|Io Herodotus]] ([[User talk:Io Herodotus|talk]]) 09:32, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
:There is little there, and everything can be found using the references already in the table. I've added them. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:27, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

==Nagaland==
Would appreciate your thoughts at [[Talk:Nagaland#Forgetting_about_World_War_II]]. Thanks. [[User:Student7|Student7]] ([[User talk:Student7|talk]]) 23:50, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

== [[Quantum vacuum plasma thruster]] ==

Dear JorisvS, I changed your recent post of 22:51 24 November 2014 on the page "Quantum vacuum plasma thruster" back to the one before, because the work using quantum field theory was not performed by Brady et al.  If you look at the link for the reference and download the paper you will see that the author has no affiliation with Brady et al. or NASA. <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/193.52.24.17|193.52.24.17]] ([[User talk:193.52.24.17|talk]]) </small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP -->
:The sentence was confusing. The way I phrased it was better, but only the author of the paper is the one who should be mentioned (and I thought that sentence said that that was Brady). --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:18, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

== List of missions to minor planets ==

Just to let you know I have again reverted your blanking of [[List of missions to minor planets]]. Although I agree there is some duplication of content between the two pages, your solution of simply blanking one of them, with no discussion beforehand, is completely unacceptable. There is no consensus for this action to take place so I have reverted it under [[WP:BRD]] until such a time as you have held a discussion in an appropriate place and established that there is support for your solution. I do not believe it is the correct solution, the pages may have similar content but the Missions article concentrates on the spacecraft while the other page is written from an astronomical perspective, concentrating on the asteroids. Additionally the Missions article is part of a series of articles and uses a common and established format, while the other one does not. Either way this is not a change which can be taken unilaterally and I do not expect to see the page blanked again until a discussion has taken place. --'''''[[User:WDGraham|<font color="#115566">W.</font>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:WDGraham|<font color="#364966">D.</font>]]&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/WDGraham|<font color="#496636">Graham</font>]]''''' 11:33, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
:So add it to the other page. What's the point of keeping a second list that lists the ''same objects'' in the same way? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:36, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
::It doesn't list them in the same way though - [[List of minor planets and comets visited by spacecraft]] is about the asteroids while [[List of missions to minor planets]] is about the spacecraft and their missions. Also, since ''missions'' is part of a series (along with [[List of missions to the Moon]], [[List of missions to Mars]], etc) surely it would be more logical to merge [[List of minor planets and comets visited by spacecraft]] ''into'' [[List of missions to minor planets]] and [[List of missions to comets]]. --'''''[[User:WDGraham|<font color="#115566">W.</font>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:WDGraham|<font color="#364966">D.</font>]]&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/WDGraham|<font color="#496636">Graham</font>]]''''' 11:39, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
:::That would be to split the list of minor planets and comets. You make a case for keeping the list of missions. I have improved the list to focus a bit more on the missions themselves, multiple entries per mission are not necessary for sorting purposes. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:53, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
::::There used to be a bug in the sorting script that caused problems with rowspan in sortable tables. I didn't realise that it had been fixed but it seems to work now so thanks for doing that. --'''''[[User:WDGraham|<font color="#115566">W.</font>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:WDGraham|<font color="#364966">D.</font>]]&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/WDGraham|<font color="#496636">Graham</font>]]''''' 12:06, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

== November 2014 ==
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, and [[Wikipedia:Introduction|welcome to Wikipedia]]. You appear to be engaged in an [[Wikipedia:Edit warring|edit war]] with one or more editors. Although repeatedly [[Help:Reverting|reverting or undoing]] another editor's contributions may seem necessary to protect your preferred version of a page, on Wikipedia this is usually seen as obstructing the [[Wikipedia:Editing policy|normal editing process]], and often creates animosity between editors. Instead of edit warring, please discuss the situation with the editor(s) involved and try to reach a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] on the [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]].

If editors continue to revert to their preferred version they are likely to be [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked from editing]]. This isn't done to punish an editor, but to prevent the disruption caused by edit warring. In particular, editors should be aware of the [[Wikipedia:Edit warring#The three-revert rule|three-revert rule]], which says that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. While edit warring on Wikipedia is not acceptable in any amount, breaking the three-revert rule is very likely to lead to a [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|block]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:uw-ewsoft --> [[User:Alessandro57|Alessandro57]] ([[User talk:Alessandro57|talk]]) 10:48, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
:Oh please. You reverted me and I reverted you, with a seemingly good explanation, and then you reverted me again. I was already going to the talk, so a message like this is really just overdoing it. A normal message beginning a discussion here would be quite fine. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:57, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

== Move request ==

Can you move [[The Man Who Sold the World (song)]] to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Sold_the_World&redirect=no The Man Who Sold the World]? Because the title track rather than the album of the same name. [[Special:Contributions/183.171.183.7|183.171.183.7]] ([[User talk:183.171.183.7|talk]]) 11:29, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
:Because it can refer to both, I've converted it into a disambiguation page. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:35, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for November 29==

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited [[Reactionless drive]], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page [[Motion]]. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the [[User:DPL bot/Dablink notification FAQ|FAQ]]{{*}} Join us at the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|DPL WikiProject]].</small>

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these [[User:DPL bot|opt-out instructions]]. Thanks, [[User:DPL bot|DPL bot]] ([[User talk:DPL bot|talk]]) 09:07, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
:{{Done|Fixed}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:10, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

== mardi ==

* [[File:Fr-mardi-fr-ouest.ogg]]

[maʁdi] or [maʁd͡zi]? [[Special:Contributions/138.229.26.26|138.229.26.26]] ([[User talk:138.229.26.26|talk]]) 17:06, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
:The former, but there is a palatal-fricative off-glide at the end (giving [maʁdiʝ]), which is quite common in French. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:57, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

== last obs ==

Hi. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2007_TG422&diff=636811491&oldid=625672737 My] edits that you're [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2007_TG422&diff=636812407&oldid=636811491 reverting] are reintroducing CS1 date errors onto those pages. There's got to be a better place to put this "last obs" information. &nbsp;&nbsp;'''~''' [[User:Tom.Reding|Tom.Reding]] ([[User talk:Tom.Reding|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/Tom.Reding|contribs]]&#124;[[Wikipedia:Don%27t-give-a-fuckism|dgaf]]) 22:23, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
:If you'd examine them, you'd see that they don't. I'm just fixing how to put in "last obs" without such an error and the most convenient way to do that is use the revert button and change whatever has to be changed. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:29, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
::Ah, I'll leave you to it, then! &nbsp;&nbsp;'''~''' [[User:Tom.Reding|Tom.Reding]] ([[User talk:Tom.Reding|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/Tom.Reding|contribs]]&#124;[[Wikipedia:Don%27t-give-a-fuckism|dgaf]]) 22:34, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
:::I'm not actively looking for them, but if I see someone fixing these and there is a better way, I change it. I hope this little thing has helped you make this best change yourself. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:36, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
::::I'm just going through [https://tools.wmflabs.org/bambots/cwb/alpha/Astronomy.html WikiProject Astronomy cleanup listing], fyi. And I'm not sure how destroying the {{para|date}} field to save the "last obs" information is "better" than destroying the "last obs" info. Keep both. Here's how: instead of just renaming {{para|date}} to {{para|type}}, first copy the erroneous "date=2010-10-31 last obs" to {{para|type}}, then copy the date portion of it back to {{para|date}} so you end up with <code>|date=2010-10-31 |type=2010-10-31 last obs</code>. Cool?  &nbsp;&nbsp;'''~''' [[User:Tom.Reding|Tom.Reding]] ([[User talk:Tom.Reding|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/Tom.Reding|contribs]]&#124;[[Wikipedia:Don%27t-give-a-fuckism|dgaf]]) 23:00, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
::::Unless the date <s>is not meaningful in the way that wiki expects it to be.</s> doesn't belong in the date field to begin with. &nbsp;&nbsp;'''~''' [[User:Tom.Reding|Tom.Reding]] ([[User talk:Tom.Reding|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/Tom.Reding|contribs]]&#124;[[Wikipedia:Don%27t-give-a-fuckism|dgaf]]) 23:08, 5 December 2014 (UTC) &nbsp;&nbsp;'''~''' [[User:Tom.Reding|Tom.Reding]] ([[User talk:Tom.Reding|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/Tom.Reding|contribs]]&#124;[[Wikipedia:Don%27t-give-a-fuckism|dgaf]]) 23:25, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
:::::With JPL there is not really a "date", only the date of last obs and an accessdate, so copying the same date into a date parameter does not makes much sense. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:53, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
::::::Yup, here's [[User talk:Huntster#last obs|another relevant and productive discussion]] I was having. &nbsp;&nbsp;'''~''' [[User:Tom.Reding|Tom.Reding]] ([[User talk:Tom.Reding|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/Tom.Reding|contribs]]&#124;[[Wikipedia:Don%27t-give-a-fuckism|dgaf]]) 06:38, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
:::::::Interesting. There is some logic to that. A problem would be that the template generates an error if the epoch lies in the future, which commonly happens at JPL. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:28, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

== Invitation ==

Hello. I invite you to [[Help_talk:IPA_for_Dutch_and_Afrikaans#Current_state_of_this_guide_is_unacceptable|this discussion]] about changes to [[Help:IPA for Dutch and Afrikaans]]. — [[User:Peter238|Peter238]] ([[User talk:Peter238#top|v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊]]) 11:23, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

== More of my gassing ==

I was about to write this on the Gas giant RM but thought to raise things with you first.  After giving it some thought my issues aren't so much with the present move idea.  Unlike article content I do not have a great problem with "Gas giant" being a misnomer.  It is primarily composed of Hydrogen and the even gassier Helium.  Ice Giant, however, seems to me to be a fallacious categorisation.  On the basis that in earth like orbits or less in the case of planets with thick atmospheres, H2O and methane are decidely non-icy.  Obviously as you seem to be an editor who is keen to develop the articles you can decide how to develop content.  I think that either base title, Gas giant or Giant planet, would serve well as article bases.  At present My only thought regarding the development of a separate Gas giant article would be to balance what I'd consider to be the fallacy of the Ice giant content.  I'd favour the view that this content could be merged into either of the other article titles.  As mentioned Gas giant is the commonly used term.  The planets that, in our solar system, as labled Ice giants are primarily made of gas.  From a brief look they are sometimes considered as a subset of Gas Giants and with this as being the commonly used term.  However, in the context of Wikipedia edit wars i see this as a potential argument for using the less commonly used "Giant planet".  [[User:Gregkaye|gregkaye]] [[User talk:Gregkaye|<span style="color:Black"><big>✍</big>♪</span>]] 14:14, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
:The ice giants (Uranus and Neptune) are composed mainly of 'ices', i.e. volatile materials such as water, methane, ammonia, etc.. They do have a substantial hydrogen–helium ('gas') atmosphere, but unlike the true gas giants, they are not composed mainly of it. Because of this compositional difference, they are more and more separated into distinct categories (traditionally, from before the realization that they are compositionally quite distinct, no difference was made and 'gas giant' could also refer to all four). Nonetheless, all four are giant planets. "Giant planets" is a category based on mass, whereas "ice giant" vs. "gas giant" is one based on composition (and both are a subset of "giant planet"). --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:22, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

== "and can" grammar ==

Hello,

Regarding this [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brown_dwarf&oldid=637623276&diff=prev revert], how exactly is "Some orbit stars '''and can''', like planets, have eccentric orbits." grammatical?

''and'' is a [[Conjunction_(grammar)|conjunction]], hence it needs to connect two words or sentences.

If it said "Some orbit stars and ''some non-orbit stars''" it would make sense, as it would connect two nouns. If it said "Some orbit stars ''have property X'' and can, like planets, have eccentric orbits", it would also make sense, because the ''and'' would connect two sub-sentences.

[[User:SCriBu|SCriBu]] ([[User talk:SCriBu|talk]]) 14:04, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
:Some [brown dwarfs] orbit stars and [some] can(, like planets,) have eccentric orbits. "Some" is the subject, "orbit" is the verb, and "stars" is the object of the first phrase, which is then connected to a second phrase using "and". Arguably, it better to give "can" an explicit subject ("they") or rephrase it at bit further (like I've done), because of those that orbit stars only some can have eccentric orbits. In any case, removing "and" would clash two phrases without a conjunction. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:14, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

== [[Caroline Gennez]] ==

Hello. How would you pronounce her first name? Current transcription is definitely wrong, because the first name doesn't have indicated stress. I bet it is {{IPA|nl|kaːroːˈlɪn|}} or {{IPA|nl|kaːroːˈlin|}}. — [[User:Peter238|Peter238]] ([[User talk:Peter238#top|v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊]]) 13:03, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
:I've fixed it. The most common pronunciation of the <a> is ~[a], which is phonemically /ɑ/, not /aː/, even though the spelling would suggest the latter, not the former phoneme (which is a rather common phenomenon). The formally 'best' pronunciation would be your latter, {{IPA|nl|kaːroːˈlin|}}. The last name is not Dutch, so its French pronunciation seems right. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:24, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
::Thanks! The problem is that we don't have {{IPA|[a]}} on [[Help:IPA for Dutch and Afrikaans]]. Since phonemically it is {{IPA|/ɑ/}}, we should use that symbol. — [[User:Peter238|Peter238]] ([[User talk:Peter238#top|v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊]]) 17:45, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
:::Note that it uses phonetic brackets, not phonemic slashes. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:39, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

== Can you do anything about Jai1971? ==

As you noticed, he keeps trying to add that information in the articles. I started a post at the teahouse [[Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions#I_need_help_with_an_insistent.2C_immature_editor|here]] but I don't know of much else to do. Also, in that teahouse post I showed some evidences of his bullshit. Thanks '''[[Tetra quark]] ([[User talk:Tetra quark|talk]])''' 17:57, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
:I can't do much, but I've left my two cents there. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:13, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

==Talkback on "scarcity" as applied to Asteroid mining==
{{talkback|Asteroid mining|BRD discussion on "scarcity"|ts=13:30, 17 December 2014 (UTC)}}
Hi there, JorisvS.  I've kicked off a BRD discussion on the effort to get this article to more correctly reflect what the term scarcity means, so that we use it correctly in that article, the same way it is used in the standard economic literature.  I'll say more over there later today; but wanted to let you know it was started, and invite you over to join the conversation.  Cheers. [[User:N2e|N2e]] ([[User talk:N2e|talk]]) 13:30, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

== neither ==

* [[File:En-us-neither-2.ogg]]

[ˈnaɪ̯ðɚ], [ˈnaɪ̯d̪ɚ] or [ˈnaɪ̯d̪͡ðɚ]? [[Special:Contributions/162.247.121.94|162.247.121.94]] ([[User talk:162.247.121.94|talk]]) 22:11, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
:Very clearly the first one. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:40, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

== J, T, & K - please have a fresh look at [[Etruscan language]] article - isolate? ==

Hitting all three of you with the same msg - just recently had a look at this article, and it is mixing 'language isolate' (which everything I've ever known about it via historical sources says it is) with very recent published theories that it no longer is, or is confusingly seemingly stating it no longer is.  Please look at the Classification section and correct or re-word it to make it more clear.  Also, a couple of new studies has never in my field = "majority consensus opinion."  Thanks.  [[User:HammerFilmFan|HammerFilmFan]] ([[User talk:HammerFilmFan|talk]]) 22:47, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
:Describing it as being the consensus is, I think, over the top. Maybe "promising" if it has been positively received by multiple specialists. It would also be nice to include critics, if possible. Please, go ahead and reword it. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 23:30, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

== Invitation ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 4px solid Black;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 2px;" | [[File:WMAP 2012.png|211px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 2px 2px 0 2px; height: 1.5em;" | '''You've been invited to be part of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Cosmology|WikiProject Cosmology]]'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" |
----
Hello. Your contributions to Wikipedia have been analyzed carefully and you're among the few chosen to have a first access to a new project. I hope you can contribute to it by expanding the main page and later start editing the articles in its scope. Make sure to check out the [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Cosmology|Talk page]] for more information! Cheers

''{{resize|96%|'''[[User:Tetra quark|Tetra quark]] ([[User talk:Tetra quark|talk]])''' 19:42, 30 December 2014 (UTC)}}''
|}
== Happy New Year JorisvS! ==
<div style="border: 3px solid #FFD700; background-color: #FFFAF0; padding:0.2em 0.4em;border-radius: 1em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75);<!--
-->" class="plainlinks">[[File:Fuochi d'artificio.gif|left|212px]][[File:Happy new year 01.svg|180px|right]]
{{Paragraph break}}
{{Center|{{resize|179%|'''''[[New Year|Happy New Year]]!'''''}}}}
'''JorisvS''',<br />Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable [[New Year]], and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. <b>[[User:Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">Serendi</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Serendipodous|<sup style="color:#bb0000;">pod</sup>]][[User talk: Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">ous</span>]]</b> 15:27, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
<br /><br />
{{Center|1=<small>Send New Year cheer by adding {{tls|Happy New Year 2015}} to user talk pages.</small>}}
</div>

== Edit warring ==

{{{icon|[[File:Information orange.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]]}}}You and Earizu appear to be [[WP:edit war|"edit warring"]] over these articles:
* [[Italian language]] - a comma, 4 reverts
* [[Marco Enrico Bossi]] - a comma and dashes, 5 reverts
* [[Somatosensory system]] - choice of words, 5 reverts
Only in the last case does there seem to be any substantive issue. 

This type of activity clutters the edit history of articles and creates more work for recent changes patrollers. Normally editors taking part in such "wars" are asked to discuss on the article talk page, then take to dispute resolution and so on: but in this case it hardly seems worthwhile. I would recommend that you both simply stop now. Posting similarly to the other editor[[User:Noyster|: <span style="color:seagreen;">'''Noyster'''</span>]] [[User talk:Noyster|<span style="color:seagreen;"> (talk)</span>, ]] 11:51, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
:Tell him that. He has been reverting me without any explanation, one even plainly against the [[WP:MOS|MoS]]. I tried to get a response on his talk page to no avail. Reverting me are the only edits he's making, none of which improve those articles. I hope you can get him to stop, because I haven't. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:58, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

== [[Ural–Altaic languages]] ==

Our edit-warrior is back. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 20:08, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

== [[Saturn]] ==

Please don't make edits which compromise the quality of articles. --[[User:John|John]] ([[User talk:John|talk]]) 11:03, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
:You got to be kidding me. I fixed the mistake in "fixing" the caps in the blockquote and just restored the two non-quoted instances that refer to the bodies, and which hence should be capitalized. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:23, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

== Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in: AWB Violation/ Capitalize the "U" in "universe" or not? ==
[[File:Peacedove.svg|60px|left]]
This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard]] regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution.  
Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!<!--Template:DRN-notice--> [[User:Arianewiki1|Arianewiki1]] ([[User talk:Arianewiki1|talk]]) 14:00, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

== Help ==

Can you please help me? Arianewiki1 is being insistent. I don't want to be the only one arguing with him and reverting his changes. I don't want that to turn into a huge discussion because of one user who is against it. '''[[User:Tetra quark|Tetra quark]] <sup>([[User talk:Tetra quark|don't be shy]])</sup>''' 17:06, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
:I've been away less than half a day and this discussion has exploded. I don't understand his harsh reaction to you. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 20:40, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

:: @ JoricS 
::Perhaps this might help, because he deleted this on [[User:Tetra quark|Tetra quark]] and attacks me on mine [[User_talk:Arianewiki1]]. Bragging about this doesn't help, either.
::You said "I'd say that making occasional mistakes is natural, whether one is using AWB or not. The important thing is the cooperative spirit so that these mistakes are then fixed." --JorisvS (talk) 21:05, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
:: My reply; 
:::":Actually JorisvS your wrong. Evidence points to the likelihood Tetra quark did this deliberately, else why was he so desperate to close down the argument the moment this might be arbitrated?"
:::As for "cooperative spirit", then explain this provocation on my User_talk:Arianewiki1 page
:::"Also, is it that difficult to notice that there was a consensus? Read everything above my comment "@Dondervogel 2: Fine, I guess that's the final decision then". It was a simple decision. You can't make everyone bow to your opinion. You're a huge minority. Also, the long messages you post make you look extremely arrogant. Stop trying to say you didn't attack me personally. It is ok to admit you're not 100% right all the time. By the way, consider this message as a constructive criticism, not an attack."
:::Clearly the evidence in front of you shows you viewpoint is rather implausible. Pity. [Arianewiki1 (talk) 21:53, 17 January 2015 (UTC)] --[[User:Arianewiki1|Arianewiki1]] ([[User talk:Arianewiki1|talk]]) 22:15, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
::::I've seen that. But what the hell are you talking about?? I can find nothing provocative on your talk page. I can find nothing to indicate he would be making errors deliberately. As for not giving more time to the discussion, that's an understandable decision based on what had been said up to that point, as I've said [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=642954127 here]. Bragging?? What are you talking about? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:22, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
:::::I don't understand your reply here, and I can only assume you have confusingly taking this personally. The problem with [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=642954127 here] is that the method of reaching consensus was violated, because of the insufficient time to review. I've have again and again clearly stated that I have issues with the rate in which this conclusion was enacted. It has nothing to do with the unfair accusation: "You can't make everyone bow to your opinion." I stated my opinion, in the view of finding the balance of consensus. Why can you not agree with that? (Nothing else is said of the complaint to the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=642954127 here] To be fair, the points of the changes needed actually did partially agree with the proposition I stated them with examples. '''The violation is to do with the time it took to gain consensus', which this editor did with such deliberate intent to avoid, but now this is perfectly fine. Why?
:::::I also fail to see YOUR hostility towards me, especially made clear with the recent [[Alpha Centauri]] edits? Why?
:::::In the end, I will discuss anything about astronomy, but I will not be lied about things I haven't said nor the implication of being manipulated by another User. My complaint is completely justified, because this User was '''deliberately avoided the consequences of his actions''', knowing full well it was controversial and confrontational. He was warned of [[WP:GF]], but ignored it. He was warned not to take action to quickly using   [[Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|AWB]] . He knew of the power of  [[Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|AWB]] , and was desperately out to use it. He did so to absolutely deadly effect. Q. What would have happen if this were a more essential execution of  [[Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|AWB]] .Now somehow after all this, the guy's now the downtrodden victim. [[User:Arianewiki1|Arianewiki1]] ([[User talk:Arianewiki1|talk]]) 23:40, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

::::::I think you should take a break from Wikipedia for today. '''[[User:Tetra quark|Tetra quark]] <sup>([[User talk:Tetra quark|don't be shy]])</sup>''' 23:49, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

::::::Don't get too cocky, sunshine. This issue has yet to be finally resolved. [[User:Arianewiki1|Arianewiki1]] ([[User talk:Arianewiki1|talk]]) 06:28, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

::::::{{ping|Arianewiki1}} I think you're overreacting to the things that have happened. I haven't been lying to you, manipulating anyone, nor making unfair accusations ("You can't make everyone bow to your opinion." is not mine). As for Tetra quark, it would have been sufficient to ask him to stop and allow more time. This would also have been a lot less fuss for everyone involved. You're the one who's ''interpreting'' his behavior as being deliberate. This whole issue would still become a lot simpler by simply [[WP:AGF|assuming good faith]] and only talking about the edits. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:45, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

:::::::@ [[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] Firstly. I am really shocked in you saying "I haven't been lying to you." You haven't, and if I've left that impression, I am honestly very sorry. The issue is/was with [[User:Tetra quark|Tetra quark]] never you. I also thank you for your honest appraisals, and agree so of the actions were rather unfortunate. (It hard to keep your cool when someone is pushing all your buttons.) I.e. "''I think you should take a break from Wikipedia for today.''" I'm sorry you got caught in the crossfire here.
:::::::The issue has been resolved [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard&action=edit&section=92] , probably for the best, as the power of [[Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|AWB]] can be used to advantage. His mistake was to implement far too quickly, then attempted to cover his tracks to avid scrutiny.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Astronomy&action=edit&section=26] [[WP:AGF|assuming good faith]] is a great start, but you also need transparent and open about what you do or are attempting to do. [[User:Tetra quark|Tetra quark]] never bother to do that at all.
:::::::Editors using it, like [[User:Tetra quark|Tetra quark]] here, can appear as superior to the normal editor who edits a page at a time. I'll be making some suggesting towards more safeguards for its use. I.e. 5000 edits to allow access and better mentorship.. Maybe [[User:Tetra quark|Tetra quark]] will get access to this resource when he gets more experience. 
:::::::I may have made several 'enemies' by doing this, mainly by exposing my position in the way I did, but the procedures of editing has always been the issue, which the [[WP:DRN]] specifically addresses.
:::::::This should end the matter. Best wishes and good editing! :) [[User:Arianewiki1|Arianewiki1]] ([[User talk:Arianewiki1|talk]]) 22:57, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
::::::::Thank you for this response. You said to me "In the end, I will discuss anything about astronomy, but I will not be lied about things I haven't said nor the implication of being manipulated by another User.". How else should I have interpreted this than you saying I'm lying? If some of these things you said to me were, in fact, not directed at me, I hope that next time you'll try to make it more clear 1) which things are responses, 2) to what they are responses (and link to them if not said here), and 3) to whom you're saying what. That should help prevent a lot of confusion and help to focus the discussion(s). --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:50, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

== talk ==

Can I at least have some peace and freedom in my own f----- talk page? Thank you. 

Anyway, I've moved some stuff to the bin '''[[User:Tetra quark|Tetra quark]] <sup>([[User talk:Tetra quark|don't be shy]])</sup>''' 17:05, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
:Try to use these comments constructively, instead of trying to cover them so you are not confronted with them. In the long run you'll be better off. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:18, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Is ''Uranus's'' really correct? I've always learned that you omit that last ''s'' in those cases '''[[User:Tetra quark|Tetra quark]] <sup>([[User talk:Tetra quark|don't be shy]])</sup>''' 19:52, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
:+' is used for plural nouns that end in -s, +'s for singular nouns (and plurals that do not end in -s). Uranus is, of course, singular, hence +'s. The +'s can, in fact, be heard: Uranus's is pronounced like Uranusses. This all said, English isn't homogeneous and +' can also be found with singular nouns ending in -s. The most common +' for singulars is with biblical characters. +'s is more common else. In all +' isn't wrong, but +'s is better. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 20:06, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

== e.g. comma and MOS ==

Hello.  You reverted my addition of commas after 'e.g.'s, stating that it is not Wik's MOS.  True, but in Wikipedia's MOS, I could find no  discussion of the issue.  How-ever, I did find this: "In geographical references that include multiple levels of subordinate divisions (e.g., city, state/province, country..."  and other examples without the comma.  So it seems it is one of the variable things.  Since I was reverting to an original use with commas, I don't see why it shouldn't be with commas. 00:55, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
:It is variable, but "e.g." is a bit preferred, with most instances being without a comma. Usually, there is also no pause when spoken aloud, and if there is, I tend to write it out: "for example, ..." because that is then typically better. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:12, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

== Puck ==

I believe it is better to leave a low quality image if the purpose is to fill that annoying gap, but ok '''[[User:Tetra quark|Tetra quark]] <sup>([[User talk:Tetra quark|don't be shy]])</sup>''' 15:38, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
:It's just that you're annoyed by it. It's as simple as not letting it bother you. In the summer, Charon will be added, though also possibly other moons of Pluto, depending on the quality of the images. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:25, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
:: Hi JorisvS, I'd like to urge you to be more considered and respectful in your interactions. I also would like you to reconsider [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=174567_Varda&diff=next&oldid=643744473 your revert] and properly revise the citation in question. Since I a plan to stay here for a long time, I count on good cooperation with all other editors. Cheers, -- [[User:Rfassbind|<span style="padding: 2px 4px;color:steelblue;back ground-color: #EFEFEF;"><span style="color:forestgreen;">R</span>fassbind</span>]] <small>[[User talk:Rfassbind|'''<em>-talk</em>''']]</small>  17:07, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

== Hydrogen and helium in the [[ice giant]]s ==

First off, thanks for the copyediting of my recent large edits!

I removed your inclusions of helium with the mentions of hydrogen in [[ice giant]]. In those cases, the source was only referring to hydrogen. Care should be used when mentioning those gasses since the ratios vary quite a bit depending on what you're measuring. While ''heavier than helium'' might be a defining feature of ice giant constituents, even gas giants have a relatively small amounts. This probably should be more clear for the reader and I'll do some digging for sources touching on this tomorrow, but I was wondering how much you think we should clarify this for the reader in the ice giant article as opposed to the others. — [[user talk:daidalos.xyz|daidalos<sup>'''.xyz'''</sup>]] 19:14, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
:Gas giants should roughly have the primordial amount, the same as the [[Sun]]. Do you have a source that says that the gas giants are depleted in helium and why? Note that the compositions in the infoboxes are their ''atmospheric'' compositions and by volume percent (not mass percent). Looking at the body of the [[Jupiter]] article, it says "Thus, the atmosphere is approximately 75% hydrogen and 24% helium by mass, with the remaining one percent of the mass consisting of other elements. The interior contains denser materials, such that the distribution is roughly 71% hydrogen, 24% helium and 5% other elements by mass.". [[Saturn]]'s atmosphere is notably depleted in helium, but its bulk composition is roughly the same. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:51, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

== ice giant ==

Yes, they are. I checked the reference. The paper is about the ''atmosphere'' of the ice giants. Also, the 20% hydrogen it mentions refer to the ''mass'' of the planets.

<blockquote>"While Uranus and Neptune also possess hydrogen envelopes, the envelopes are much smaller, accounting for less than 20% of the planet’s masses and never making the transition to metallic hydrogen (Guillot 2005)"</blockquote>

Last but not least, every source on the internet, including the Wikipedia article itself, says [[Uranus]] is composed of 83% hydrogen. In my opinion the lead of [[ice giant]] is too misleading '''[[User:Tetra quark|Tetra quark]] <sup>([[User talk:Tetra quark|talk]])</sup>''' 15:12, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
:"The 20% hydrogen it mentions refer to the mass of the planets": yes, a relatively small amount of hydrogen (and helium). As for the "83% hydrogen" in the Uranus article, that's its ''atmosphere''. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:16, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
::The difference is that Hydrogen is a much lighter element, so although it is responsible for 20% of the mass, it represents most of the volume. Anyway, I think we should make the ice giants article more clear. We should add that it's 20% ''in mass'' '''[[User:Tetra quark|Tetra quark]] <sup>([[User talk:Tetra quark|talk]])</sup>''' 15:35, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
:::I agree that it should be made more clear. I've improved its lead. The difference in composition by mass is what makes the crucial difference. Even if the interior of Uranus needs four layers and that of Neptune three layers to be modeled, their classification would not change because their bulk composition is what matters for that. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:42, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

== [[2004 XR190]] ==

I don't agree with [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2004_XR190&diff=643211420&oldid=643200530 this] revert: If we use Brown's list as a source in the lede (as does the linked list of possible DPs), we have to quote him correctly; and the JPL search can't claim to be a list of all "possible DP's", neither DP-ness nor size is determined by magnitude alone.--[[User:Roentgenium111|Roentgenium111]] ([[User talk:Roentgenium111|talk]]) 16:44, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
:So what would be the added value of parroting his terminology? It is not normal English to have 'likely' as more likely than 'probable' and all in the list are possibly DPs, just with different likelihoods. Moreover, it is normal to paraphrase sources. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:40, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

::Paraphrasing is okay, but replacing "likely" by "possible" is a significant weakening, which makes the lede's sentence less informative. --[[User:Roentgenium111|Roentgenium111]] ([[User talk:Roentgenium111|talk]]) 13:47, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
:::How? By using terminology that the average English speaker (an hence WP reader) does not distinguish and therefore does not read as intended? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:51, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
::::I'm no English native speaker, but to me "likely" implies a high probability and "possible" a potentially lower one, just as intended by Brown. (This is unrelated to the "likely" vs. "probable" distinction, which may indeed be problematic linguistically, as you say.)--[[User:Roentgenium111|Roentgenium111]] ([[User talk:Roentgenium111|talk]]) 14:38, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
:::::It is true that "likely" generally implies a higher probability than "possible". However, "possible" can also mean basically anything between 0 and 100% except the end points. That's why [[list of possible dwarf planets|the list uses "possible"]]. In the article it is unnecessary to distinguish multiple categories of likelihood. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:08, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
::::::Yes, "possible" is logically correct, but it's less informative for 2004 XR190's lede than "likely" since it doesn't imply a high probability. Checking the articles of some other DP candidates, it also seems to be common practice to quote Brown's actual category in the lede, rather than reduce it to "possible DP".  --[[User:Roentgenium111|Roentgenium111]] ([[User talk:Roentgenium111|talk]]) 16:28, 13 February 2015 (UTC) <small>(Thanks for fixing my editing error at the Rhea article, BTW.)</small>
:::::::It used to, yes, but since the list was moved to "possible", it has no longer been followed strictly. An example that doesn't follow Brown's categories (and their names) is [[120347 Salacia]] with "probably", yet it is (now) listed as "nearly certainly" by Brown, though I think it stems from the time it was still listed as "highly likely". However, do "probable" or "likely" not imply a higher probability than there really is (out of context, that is: within the context of Brown's list it's fine)? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:17, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

== Bracket Errors on 30 January ==

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:{{Done|Fixed}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 21:35, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== The TNOs image ==

Larry McNish at [[Royal Astronomical Society of Canada|RASC]] has done [http://calgary.rasc.ca/dwarfplanets.htm an update of the TNOs image]. Maybe we should do an adaptation of it? <b>[[User:Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">Serendi</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Serendipodous|<sup style="color:#bb0000;">pod</sup>]][[User talk: Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">ous</span>]]</b> 23:17, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
:Makes sense. Ours is rather outdated. From the looks of it, Eris should still be a bit smaller (the same size as Pluto). --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:31, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
::I should clarify that I don't have the tools to do it myself. <b>[[User:Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">Serendi</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Serendipodous|<sup style="color:#bb0000;">pod</sup>]][[User talk: Serendipodous|<span style="color:#0000bb;">ous</span>]]</b> 11:58, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
:::I think I don't have any tools at my disposal that you don't, so we should find someone who can. Maybe WilyD, he has been very active at the [[Kuiper belt]] imagery? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 12:02, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

== Ram's horns. ==

The Singaporeans do tend to put the stress mark on the final syllable. Thank you. [[User:Gcjdavid|Gcjdavid]] ([[User talk:Gcjdavid|talk]]) 09:25, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
:At present, stress is not even mentioned at [[Singapore English]]. It is already tagged for a reference. Find one that says that. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:27, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
::He's clearly confusing [[Stress (linguistics)|stress]] with high [[tone (linguistics)|tone]] on the last syllable. Check his [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Close-mid_back_unrounded_vowel&oldid=646886165 recent edit] on [[close-mid back unrounded vowel]], which I partially reverted. — [[User:Peter238|Peter238]] ([[User talk:Peter238#top|v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊]]) 13:22, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

== Reference Errors on 1 February ==

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:{{Done|Fixed}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 00:33, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

== Sun ==

Please give me a bit of space while I work on this section. I'm getting edit conflicts. Thanks. [[User:Isambard Kingdom|Isambard Kingdom]] ([[User talk:Isambard Kingdom|talk]]) 16:37, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
:Me too. I'm trying to clean it up, which you should like. Because you're really working on it, unlike me, let me suggest you try to change a bit more per edit and use then also use the show preview button. You can then more likely see if you'll be accidentally changing something you shouldn't and whether you'd be getting an edit conflict. Then it is easier to work around those edit conflicts. This way we can both make our improvements to it. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:42, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

::I understand, and I know, lots of edits, but some of my changes have involved moving blocks of material around, and I sometimes need to makes sure that the panorama looks right and, also, that I don't loose my edits. I do, however, very much appreciate your looking things over and making needed corrections. Okay, again, thank you. [[User:Isambard Kingdom|Isambard Kingdom]] ([[User talk:Isambard Kingdom|talk]]) 16:45, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
:::If you move stuff around, you should definitely use a single edit (to the entire page), unlike, for example, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sun&diff=645496258&oldid=645496114 this]. The same technique will then allow you to see that everything happens as you want it to. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:47, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
::::Okay, but the editing window showing the actual source code is often difficult to navigate when editing the entire page. There are lots of formatting statements, figures, captions, etc. So, it ends up being easier to edit a specific section, cut text, save, then open another section for editing, paste, etc. My goal, in all of this, has been to make this article better, and I hope you can see some improvement. Thanks, again, [[User:Isambard Kingdom|Isambard Kingdom]] ([[User talk:Isambard Kingdom|talk]]) 16:51, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
:::::You could also use your browser's search function for that. I'm not questioning your motives, and the article is improving, I'm just trying to help us both do what we can. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:56, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
::::::I've told Isambard Kingdom to do more changes in one single edit dozens of times in the past. Don't bother telling him the same thing. Just an advice '''[[User:Tetra quark|Tetra quark]] <sup>([[User talk:Tetra quark|talk]])</sup>''' 17:01, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
:::::::Tetra, I know you have complained to John several times. [[User:Isambard Kingdom|Isambard Kingdom]] ([[User talk:Isambard Kingdom|talk]]) 17:04, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
::::::::I regularly end up doing several consecutive edits myself, so I understand how it can go. Nevertheless, if one's trying to really edit a page, it can be helpful to try to do more in one edit. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:09, 5 February 2015 (UTC) 

::::::Over the next few days, I will work on the second half of the magnetic-field-activity section. As with many Wikiarticles, there is a mishmash of material, assembled from many different editors adding small pieces of information here and there. Most of this is fine, but on a larger scale someone needs to make sure that all the relevant material is in place and that it presented in a logical and consistent way. Not easy to get there, but that is life. [[User:Isambard Kingdom|Isambard Kingdom]] ([[User talk:Isambard Kingdom|talk]]) 17:02, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
:::::::Oh, you're quite right about that! Personally, I'm usually doing the copyediting or adding those pieces of information. I'm glad someone has taken up this tedious work. It's good someone is doing it! --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:09, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
::::::::My pleasure. [[User:Isambard Kingdom|Isambard Kingdom]] ([[User talk:Isambard Kingdom|talk]]) 17:10, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

:Not to be a negative Nancy,<sup>[sorry, Nancies]</sup> but [[Sun]] is already a [[WP:Featured article]]. Why the vigorous attention recently? Is it, or do y'all think it could be, a candidate for demotion? I'm just curious&mdash;no implied direction here, but there are [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Astronomy/Article_ratings|plenty of articles to go around]] in the meantime. &nbsp;&nbsp;<b>~</b>&nbsp;<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:17px;">[[User:Tom.Reding|Tom.Reding]] ([[User talk:Tom.Reding|talk]] ⋅[[Special:Contributions/Tom.Reding|contribs]] ⋅[[WP:Don%27t-give-a-fuckism|dgaf]])</span>&nbsp; 18:05, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
::I have no opinion on FA status. I do know, however, that the article could be improved. I know that the article is important, and, therefore, worthy of more scrutiny and editing (not less) than other less important articles. Ans, then, I had some energy to devote to the subject. [[User:Isambard Kingdom|Isambard Kingdom]] ([[User talk:Isambard Kingdom|talk]]) 18:19, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

== Koreanic languages ==

Please don't add the mention 'Koreanic languages' in the [[Korean language]] infobox. Because Koreanic languages are a proposal language family. People who haven't got a knowledge on linguistics could believe that the languages are a widely recognised language family, not just a proposal. --[[Special:Contributions/117.53.77.84|117.53.77.84]] ([[User talk:117.53.77.84|talk]]) 10:58, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
:So why don't you actually explain it, rather than only keep claiming it, something contrary to what is said in the relevant articles? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:00, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
::Because the papers which explain about relationship with ancient languages which were spoken in Korea and 'contemporary' Korean language is mostly written in Korean. If you can speak Korean, I can explain it, but I know that you can't speak the language. --[[Special:Contributions/117.53.77.84|117.53.77.84]] ([[User talk:117.53.77.84|talk]]) 11:13, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
:::That makes no sense, why can't '''you''' explain it to me? That is, without referring to papers, something I'd ask you to do whether they're in English, Korean or any other language. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:15, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
::::[http://www.dbpia.co.kr/Journal/ArticleDetail/9263 한국어의 계통 연구 (Research about relationship with Korean and other languages)] (If want to read it, you must pay 5 kilo [[South Korean won]] for this paper.) --[[Special:Contributions/117.53.77.84|117.53.77.84]] ([[User talk:117.53.77.84|talk]]) 11:21, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
:::::As I said, I'm not going to read anything, in any language, for you to make your point. ''Say what you think I need to know'', or else this is just a waste of time. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:24, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
::::::I want to say that relationship between ancient languages which were spoken in Korea and 'contemporary' Korean is unconfirmed. It's still researching by linguistic and the Korean studies scholars. --[[Special:Contributions/117.53.77.84|117.53.77.84]] ([[User talk:117.53.77.84|talk]]) 11:40, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

== Comma after i.e. ==

Five of six style guides recommend comma after "i.e.": [http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/ie-versus-eg?page=2].

Why are you removing them, as in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gauss%27s_law_for_gravity&curid=16704344&diff=646072016&oldid=639808935]? --[[User:Sbyrnes321|Steve]] ([[User talk:Sbyrnes321|talk]]) 21:37, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
:Because they're not ubiquitous, not required for anything, slightly interrupt the flow of the text with a small pause, and are more common without than with on Wikipedia, also in the MOS. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:35, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

::If you were saying the sentence out loud, you would leave a small pause after "i.e.", just like you would leave a small pause after "that is" or "that is to say" (which of course is what "i.e." means). To signify that small spoken pause, you put in a comma.

::When you say "interrupting the flow of text with a small pause", it sounds like a bad thing, but appropriate pauses are essential to communication. That's why they invented the comma in the first place. Commas are rarely required, but often helpful. They can make things easier to read and parse.

::The MOS does not ''instruct'' us to avoid commas after "i.e.". It merely does so itself. (Or is there a section I missed?) There is a big difference. The difference is, the ''content'' of the MOS is extensively discussed and debated, while the ''style'' of the MOS is much much less so. All that you can infer is that one or two people decided to leave out the comma when originally writing that part of the MOS text, and nobody else thought to change it.

::The Chicago Manual of Style OTOH ''does'' have explicit instructions on this topic:

:::"Expressions of the type ''that is'' are traditionally followed by a comma ... The abbreviations i.e. ("that is") and e.g. ("for example"), if used in formal writing, should be confined to parentheses or notes and followed by a comma."

::I am not trying to convince you that commas are required. I am trying to convince you that commas are respectable. If you don't personally like the comma after i.e., that's fine, don't use it in text that you write yourself. But you should not go around indiscriminately erasing every comma after i.e. that you see ... unless the MOS explicitly says the comma is wrong, or unless it is near-universally acknowledged by English speakers to be wrong. Neither is the case.

::It's true that some wikipedia articles use the commas and others don't. But this is not a problem, and it does not need fixing. And if it ''did'' need fixing, popular vote is the wrong way to declare which style is to be imposed. Your own personal style preference is an even wronger way. The right way is to lobby to add a section to the MOS that forbids the comma, and try to win over the linguists and grammar nerds who hang out at the MOS talk pages.

::My own opinion is a bit different than Chicago Manual of Style. I think the comma is appropriate most of the time, but leaving it out is better in some contexts. That's why I especially disagree with your theory that the comma should be either ubiquitous or banned, but nowhere in between. --[[User:Sbyrnes321|Steve]] ([[User talk:Sbyrnes321|talk]]) 14:07, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

::Also, on [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Embedded_lists|this page of the MOS]], "i.e." is used both with and without commas. --[[User:Sbyrnes321|Steve]] ([[User talk:Sbyrnes321|talk]]) 14:10, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

== Rcats on {{-r|Fission-fusion society}} ==

What exactly did I do wrong? This was treated by [[WP:Notifications]] as a revert, even though it wasn't ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fission-fusion_society&diff=647414099&oldid=605644429 you kept R from modification but removed R from move]).

The [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Fission-fusion+society log] shows that there was indeed a move, so I'm not sure why R from move wouldn't apply. I'm not aware of any consensus to remove R from move after other rcats have been added.

Did you mean to object to R from modification instead? If so, why? --[[User:SoledadKabocha|SoledadKabocha]] ([[User talk:SoledadKabocha|talk]]) 16:47, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
:No, because the only relevant R from is really that it is a modification of the correct title. That the article originally was at the incorrect title is not really relevant. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:49, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
::Could you clarify what exactly you mean by "relevan[ce]" in this context? Again, I am not aware of any consensus to remove {{tlx|R from move}} when adding other rcats. Should I take this to [[WT:Categorizing redirects]] to develop such a consensus? --[[User:SoledadKabocha|SoledadKabocha]] ([[User talk:SoledadKabocha|talk]]) 16:51, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
:::Just answer this: What's the point of that template, especially when there is another one? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:39, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
::::It's to make visible the fact that the article was moved without requiring an extra click on the history tab, and also to allow tracking via [[:Category:Redirects from moves]]. It is not a badge of shame about the "incorrectness" of the old title; the word "incorrect" is a bit misleading anyway, as consensus can change about naming conventions.
::::Do you think other [[WP:RCAT|RCAT]] guideline writers have been wrong about this all along? Please explain. --[[User:SoledadKabocha|SoledadKabocha]] ([[User talk:SoledadKabocha|talk]]) 19:29, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
:::::Just asking for a good reason to keep it. Looks like that's settled. But what's with the weird ugly white box for two? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 23:03, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
:::::←
If I understand correctly, the box you're talking about is generated by {{tlx|this is a redirect}} a.k.a. {{tlx|redr}}. I didn't personally have a say in its design, nor do I have any strong feelings about it. If you want to discuss that, see [[WT:Categorizing redirects]] and/or [[Template talk:This is a redirect]]. --[[User:SoledadKabocha|SoledadKabocha]] ([[User talk:SoledadKabocha|talk]]) 23:31, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

To clarify: The MediaWiki software here is currently configured to add {{tlx|R from move}} ''automatically'' when a page is moved; that's how it was added to the redirect in the first place. Should I still ask at [[WT:Categorizing redirects]] whether there are any conditions under which {{tlx|R from move}} should be removed? --[[User:SoledadKabocha|SoledadKabocha]] ([[User talk:SoledadKabocha|talk]]) 23:38, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
:No. What about adding "<nowiki>{{R from move}} and {{R from modification}}</nowiki>" separately? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:10, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
::Ok as to the separate templates - but would you object if I did start such a discussion, just for my personal knowledge? I assume you are concerned about [[WP:canvassing|canvassing]], which is assuredly not my intention here? --[[User:SoledadKabocha|SoledadKabocha]] ([[User talk:SoledadKabocha|talk]]) 15:19, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
:::As far as I'm concerned, this point is settled. What you would like to do for yourself is your business, but I do not have to be involved. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:36, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

== A cookie for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Choco_chip_cookie.png|120px]]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Thanks for the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=647415496] edit, um, correction should I say!? {{smiley|smile}} [[User:Anand2202|Anand2202]] ([[User talk:Anand2202|talk]]) 19:23, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
|}

== Removal of interwiki links ==

I have created articles «Глухой увулярный взрывной» (Voiceless uvular stop) and «Звонкий увулярный спирант» (Voiced uvular  fricative) in Russian Wikipedia, but you have reverted language redirect.
Why have you done that?[[User:Tzschoidheaought|Tzschoidheaought]] ([[User talk:Tzschoidheaought|talk]]) 06:18, 17 February 2015 (UTC) [[User:Tzschoidheaought|Tzschoidheaought]] ([[User talk:Tzschoidheaought|talk]]) 06:18, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
:Because since quite a while now such interwiki links are no longer handled by adding a link to Wikipedia pages, but by adding them to [[Wikidata]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:08, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

== [[Mars]] ==

What are you replacing the Tharsis image? You are saying. Thanks! --<b><big>[[User:Jcpag2012|Jc]][[User_talk:Jcpag2012|pag]][[Special:Contributions/Jcpag2012|2012]]</big></b> <small>(a.k.a. John Carlo)</small> from Wikipedia 07:15, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
:I'm not replacing that one, but have restored it. The discussion about the image is at [[Talk:Mars#Lead image]]. The reason for my revert(s) is in my edit summary. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:22, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

== Redirect to [[small Solar System bodies]] ==

Why avoid the redirect? Per [[WP:NOPIPE]], avoiding the piped link is preferable to avoiding the redirect. —Alex ([[User:Ashill|ASHill]] &#124; [[User_talk:Ashill|talk]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Ashill|contribs]]) 21:33, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
:It actually says nothing about this situation. It says things about the most efficient way of linking to an article and when there is an advantage in using a redirect. Using redirects has the advantage of telling when it is useful to make a spin-off article. However, in this case there is no chance of that ever occurring, because it is a simple matter of it being the plural. Now, it simply goes to the page directly, without displaying any pointless redirection notice. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:25, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

== [[List of gravitationally rounded objects of the Solar System]] ([[List of gravitationally rounded objects of the Solar System#Sun|Sun]]) ==

Why did you remove the lead image when [[User:Huntster|Huntster]] uploaded a new version of [[:File:The Sun as seen in January 1st 2015.jpg|January 2015 image]] when I got here on Wikimedia Commons?

Here: [[List of gravitationally rounded objects of the Solar System]]

Please, do not remove the lead image. Thanks. --<b><big>[[User:Jcpag2012|Jc]][[User_talk:Jcpag2012|pag]][[Special:Contributions/Jcpag2012|2012]]</big></b> <small>(a.k.a. John Carlo)</small> from Wikipedia 09:59, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

:Please be specific. Which change are you referring to exactly? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:02, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

::He's referring to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_gravitationally_rounded_objects_of_the_Solar_System&diff=648162024&oldid=648139381 this edit]. I support the reversion. I also don't see why my having uploaded a larger version of his preferred image has any relevance in this situation. {{u|Jcpag2012}}, just because you uploaded an image does not mean you have the right to demand its inclusion in an article. If you seriously want to challenge this action, which I do not recommend, find consensus on that article's talk page. <span style="white-space:nowrap; text-shadow:gray 5px 3px 1px;">— [[User:Huntster|Huntster]] <small>([[User talk:Huntster|t]] [[Special:Emailuser/Huntster|@]] [[Special:Contributions/Huntster|c]])</small></span> 20:22, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

== [[Sun]] ==

Why do you changed to natural color image? If just help that, thanks. --<b><big>[[User:Jcpag2012|Jc]][[User_talk:Jcpag2012|pag]][[Special:Contributions/Jcpag2012|2012]]</big></b> <small>(a.k.a. John Carlo)</small> from Wikipedia 01:43, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
:Again, please be specific about what change you are talking. I think you're referring to a similar change as the one you mean in the above section. Those two images were made at the ''same ultra-UV wavelight'', so are far from in 'natural color'. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:05, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

== enquête ==

* [[File:Enquête Qc.oga]]

Hi, is this pronunciation [ˈɑ̃kʲæɪ̯t]? [[Special:Contributions/162.247.120.161|162.247.120.161]] ([[User talk:162.247.120.161|talk]]) 21:54, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
:The stress is, like typical French, on the last syllable. The [k] is not particularly palatalized, but is more front than a prototypical velar (which is pretty normal for velars before front vowels). The nucleus of the diphthong is not as open as [æ], and does not even sound quite as open as [ɛ]. So [ɑ̃ˈk̟e̞ɪ̯t]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:14, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

::I'm not sure, maybe it's [ɑ̃ˈk̟ɛ̈ɪ̯t]? [[Special:Contributions/198.99.30.186|198.99.30.186]] ([[User talk:198.99.30.186|talk]])  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned"> — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 21:19, 8 March 2015 (UTC)</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:::Though I can't say for certain, it does not sound centralized to me. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:02, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

* http://www.forvo.com/word/tête/

The Canadian pronunciation is [taɪ̯t] or [tæɪ̯t]? [[Special:Contributions/162.247.120.161|162.247.120.161]] ([[User talk:162.247.120.161|talk]]) 00:31, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
:Definitely not the former. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:57, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

== Artist impressions of the exoplanets ==

Why do you remove pictures from the infobox, when I used the Photoshop CS5 (3D computer graphics for artist's impression)?

*[[HD 40307 g]]
*[[HD 40307 b]]
*[[Tau Ceti f]]
*[[Tau Ceti e]]
*[[Mu Arae e]]

It is a meaningless, just okay. But it is not a meaningless for joke, just discuss me. Thanks. --<b><big>[[User:Jcpag2012|Jc]][[User_talk:Jcpag2012|pag]][[Special:Contributions/Jcpag2012|2012]]</big></b> <small>(a.k.a. John Carlo)</small> from Wikipedia 11:26, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
:Though they're not the same as those images of general Celestia textures you uploaded, they're still not meaningful encyclopedic content. It 'looks nicer' is not a good reason. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:45, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
::{{u|Jcpag2012}}, I agree with Joris on this. Please, stop adding "artist impression" images to articles. <span style="white-space:nowrap; text-shadow:gray 5px 3px 1px;">— [[User:Huntster|Huntster]] <small>([[User talk:Huntster|t]] [[Special:Emailuser/Huntster|@]] [[Special:Contributions/Huntster|c]])</small></span> 16:50, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
{{ping|Jcpag2012}} Despite this, now you're just continuing to add these meaningless artist's impressions without any explanation? Why? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:29, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
:Ummm.... --<b><big>[[User:Jcpag2012|Jc]][[User_talk:Jcpag2012|pag]][[Special:Contributions/Jcpag2012|2012]]</big></b> <small>(a.k.a. John Carlo)</small> from Wikipedia 09:50, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
::{{ping|Jcpag2012}} Is that seriously everything you have to say about it? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:37, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
::Agree, just delete my meaningless artist's impressions. Okay. :) --<b><big>[[User:Jcpag2012|Jc]][[User_talk:Jcpag2012|pag]][[Special:Contributions/Jcpag2012|2012]]</big></b> <small>(a.k.a. John Carlo)</small> from Wikipedia 06:42, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

== Romanian IPA Sounds ==

I recently edited the page by adding an example of a palatal nasal sound present in the Romanian language, but you got reverted. The sound certainly exists in the Romanian variant spoken in Transylvania, along with other sounds missing from the standard language. It's one of my first edits I do on Wikipedia, so if you are kind enough to explain the change, it would be really helpful in the future. [[User:Shaku91|Shaku91]] ([[User talk:Shaku91|talk]]) 10:06, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
:I've already answered you [[Talk:Palatal nasal#Romanian and Palatal nasal sounds|here]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:08, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

== Consonant tables ==

Hi, could you tell me what's wrong with the edit I've done on [[Serbo-Croatian phonology]] and [[Polish phonology]]. Thanks. [[User:Abjiklam|Abjiklɐm]] ([[User talk:Abjiklam|tɐlk]]) 18:33, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
:The problem with your edit was that it was needlessly cody. However, note that I didn't just undo your edit, but also standardized its layout (to what is the most common and informative form), which has one sound per cell and clearly states the elements of a sound. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:54, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
::Oh I see that now. However, I'd like to point out that my edit makes the tables look like the {{tl|IPA consonant chart}}. I could make up templates to hide the code, but is it really necessary? [[User:Abjiklam|Abjiklɐm]] ([[User talk:Abjiklam|tɐlk]]) 19:07, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
:::It's the one table. And it needs clarification which sounds are voiced and which voiceless. It does have the benefit of being a little more compact, which is an advantage for templates like that. Tables in the articles, however, should be as clear as possible. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 20:06, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

==Disambiguation link notification for March 13==

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited [[Votic language]], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page [[Palatalization]]. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. <small>Read the [[User:DPL bot/Dablink notification FAQ|FAQ]]{{*}} Join us at the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|DPL WikiProject]].</small>

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these [[User:DPL bot|opt-out instructions]]. Thanks, [[User:DPL bot|DPL bot]] ([[User talk:DPL bot|talk]]) 09:16, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
:{{Done|Fixed}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:48, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

== neige ==

* [[File:Neige Qc.ogg]]

Hi, it's [nɐɪ̯ʒ] or [nɐɪ̯ʒᵊ]? [[Special:Contributions/138.229.19.34|138.229.19.34]] ([[User talk:138.229.19.34|talk]]) 01:01, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
:The latter. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:46, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

* [[File:Ancêtre Qc.oga]]

[ɑ̃ˈsɐɛ̯tχ] or [ɑ̃ˈsˁɐɛ̯tχ] ? [[Special:Contributions/138.229.19.34|138.229.19.34]] ([[User talk:138.229.19.34|talk]]) 19:50, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

:I'm not sure that there is a [ˁ] or not. [[Special:Contributions/138.229.19.34|138.229.19.34]] ([[User talk:138.229.19.34|talk]]) 23:18, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
::It is difficult to hear, but I get the impression that the [s] is more tense than a plain one. True pharyngealization ([ˁ]) would sound different, though. Maybe it's epiglottalized, properly written [<sup>ʜ</sup>]. Then again, I suspect that any epiglottalization is not limited to the [s] and the possible one one the [s] could actually be due to the nasalized vowel also being epiglottalized. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:07, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

:::The diphthong is really [ɐɛ̯]? [[Special:Contributions/162.247.120.245|162.247.120.245]] ([[User talk:162.247.120.245|talk]]) 21:23, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
::::The Canadian French vowels are really a pain in the ass, with all kinds of rare diphthongs. The nucleus does sound like [ɐ], though it's possible it's slightly fronted. The offglide may as well be [ɪ̯], I can't say for sure. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:26, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

* [[File:Qc-tête.oga]]
* [[File:FR-CA-tête.oga]]

These two Quebec French pronunciation are different? [taɪ̯t] and [tæɪ̯t]? [[Special:Contributions/162.247.120.245|162.247.120.245]] ([[User talk:162.247.120.245|talk]]) 00:40, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
:They're quite different! The distinct is something along those lines, yes. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 03:16, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

== Mike Brown, the eccentric ==

Sometimes our articles make me laugh.  I came across the following this morning: 

:"Mikebrown is unusually eccentric and not very bright. ... Astronomers have not noticed any outbursts by Mikebrown."

Poor Mike!  — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 22:16, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
:Yeah, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=11714_Mikebrown&oldid=651709335 it's funny]! :) --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:40, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

== On my most recent edit to Mars ==

Sorry if that had the appearance of a weak personal attack (calling you lazy); I just didn't like the fact that you were making a change of that sort without keeping the units used by a few hundred million people in the Western Hemisphere (plus some in the United Kingdom). That is all. If you want to respond to this, you can, but you don't have to. That is all. [[User:Dustin V. S.|<span style="color:green; font-family:Times New Roman">''Dustin''</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Dustin V. S.|(<span style="color:green; font-family:Times New Roman">talk</span>)]] 16:43, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
:The international SI units are the international standard and, logically, it is the consensus that their use in astronomy (after all a scientific discipline) articles is required. The use of miles is optional, only to accomodate understanding for those who are too unfamiliar with SI units. I've occasionally seen them being removed elsewhere when they were alongside their km equivalents. Here, however, kilometers were missing altogether, which is, as I've explained, a no-go for astronomy articles (this point was, in fact, in the to-do list of the [[Mars]] article). I figured that if anyone felt it was important enough to keep the mile equivalents of those, s/he would simply add them again. It didn't quite go that way... --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:14, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

== [[Earth-grazing meteoroid of 13 October 1990]] ==

Thanks for all the help, which enabled bringing the article to GA. I really appreciate it. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 13:51, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
:You're quite welcome! I was wondering about the possibility of pushing it to FA, though it may be entirely possible that the best possible article on this topic cannot attain FA status, I'm not sure. It may nevertheless be worth a shot, if you wish. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:19, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
::I may try it and see. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:04, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

== baleine ==

* [[File:Qc-baleine.ogg]]

Hi, I've probably heard [bɐlæ̯ẽn], have you heard an extra-short [æ̯] ? [[Special:Contributions/138.229.19.187|138.229.19.187]] ([[User talk:138.229.19.187|talk]]) 18:33, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
:Possibly, but the (non-written) off-glide of the second syllable is far more pronounced. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:37, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

== Plurals in phoneme tables ==

MOA features usually aren't used in the singular when used collectively. A language does not have "five plosive", it has ''five plosive'''s'''''. I believe plurals are more common for phoneme tables (though admittedly this has never been fully standardized). Something like "plosive and affricate" sounds especially clunky; at the least you should also change those to "or".

Arguably the same point can be made of POAs though (''three bilabials'', not "three bilabial"), but they are usually used as modifiers of the MOA: a language may have ''two bilabial plosives'' (and not "two plosive bilabials"). --[[User:Tropylium|<span class="IPA">Trɔpʏliʊm</span>]] • [[User talk:Tropylium|blah]] 19:09, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
:In your examples, it is not used as referring to a feature, but as referring to specific consonants having that feature. Where it is used as a feature is, for example, in the "Features" sections of the phone articles, where, when referring to multiple consonants with the same feature, it would be correct to say that "their manner of articulation is plosive", ''not'' "their manner of articulation is plosives". I interpret the rows and columns in tables as representing features of individual consonants, not as a fancy way of listing consonants. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:56, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

== Crap images of the exoplanets and meaningless "artist's impressions" ==

{{Ping|JorisvS}} Please stop putting crap in articles.

Here:
*[[HD 40307 g]] (crap image, using Photoshop)
*[[Kepler-5b]] (bad Celestia texture using Photoshop, copyvio)
*[[Mu Arae e]] (bad Celestia texture using Photoshop, copyvio)

Just delete my crap images and meaningless artist's impressions.
Thanks. :) --<b><big>[[User:Jcpag2012|Jc]][[User_talk:Jcpag2012|pag]][[Special:Contributions/Jcpag2012|2012]]</big></b> <small>(a.k.a. John Carlo)</small> from Wikipedia 02:41, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
:Are you asking me to delete them? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:37, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
::A general Celestia texture using Photoshop CS5, okay. :) --<b><big>[[User:Jcpag2012|Jc]][[User_talk:Jcpag2012|pag]][[Special:Contributions/Jcpag2012|2012]]</big></b> <small>(a.k.a. John Carlo)</small> from Wikipedia 05:10, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

{{You've got mail|sig=<b><big>[[User:Jcpag2012|Jc]][[User_talk:Jcpag2012|pag]][[Special:Contributions/Jcpag2012|2012]]</big></b> <small>(a.k.a. John Carlo)</small> from Wikipedia 05:19, 5 April 2015 (UTC)}}
{{ping|JorisvS}} Don't put crap image on the article. Thanks. :) --<b><big>[[User:Jcpag2012|Jc]][[User_talk:Jcpag2012|pag]][[Special:Contributions/Jcpag2012|2012]]</big></b> <small>(a.k.a. John Carlo)</small> from Wikipedia 05:19, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
:Mailing me with just the above has no added value. Just answer the question and be serious, I don't appreciate being played around with. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:19, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
::Okay! :) --<b><big>[[User:Jcpag2012|Jc]][[User_talk:Jcpag2012|pag]][[Special:Contributions/Jcpag2012|2012]]</big></b> <small>(a.k.a. John Carlo)</small> from Wikipedia 02:26, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Joris, just ignore it. My opinion, having watched this editor for a while, is that there is an English language ''and'' general competency issue going on. I've tried to help him repeatedly on Commons and it simply gets ignored or twisted around. If it continues, I'm seriously considering blocking with [[WP:CIR]] as a rationale. <span style="white-space:nowrap; text-shadow:gray 5px 3px 1px;">— [[User:Huntster|Huntster]] <small>([[User talk:Huntster|t]] [[Special:Emailuser/Huntster|@]] [[Special:Contributions/Huntster|c]])</small></span> 03:00, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
:Yes, thank you for informing me. I have noticed the same thing. On top, I think there is also an attitude issue. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:09, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

== Proper motion ==

{{ping|JorisvS}}

Hi! Could you do me a great kindness and check my edit(s) on [[Proper motion]], which I've made a fairly significant update. There is still many problems with this page, which is far too complicated for such a simple concept.

I'd appreciated some feedback in making further improvements.

Cheers

Note: Thanks for correcting my edit on [[Alpha Centauri]], which I've misread. Sorry for the unnecessary revert.

[[User:Arianewiki1|Arianewiki1]] ([[User talk:Arianewiki1|talk]]) 18:51, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
:Sure. I think it looks better, and yes, you're right that it needs more work. I'll keep an eye on it to help you a bit. We could best discuss further improvements on its talk page, so that it's easier for others to chime in. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:46, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

== كيفك ==

* http://www.forvo.com/word/كيفك/#ar

Hello, this pronunciation is really "key-f***" ? [[Special:Contributions/138.229.16.126|138.229.16.126]] ([[User talk:138.229.16.126|talk]]) 01:53, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
:Haha, to an English ear, yes. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:14, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

== [[Conscientiousness]] ==

I've [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Conscientiousness&diff=656002725&oldid=656002433 removed] a copyvio from the article added a few hours ago; I don't think [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Conscientiousness&diff=655973745&oldid=655967795 any] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Conscientiousness&diff=655967265&oldid=654896205 other] edits by the IPs are copyvios but could you check please? &mdash;[[User:George8211|George8211]] / [[User talk:George8211|T]] 18:24, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

== honest ==

Hello, [ˈɒnɛst] is an incorrect pronunciation? [[Special:Contributions/138.229.16.126|138.229.16.126]] ([[User talk:138.229.16.126|talk]]) 21:52, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
:See [[wikt:honest]] for its correct pronunciation. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:14, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
::[http://www.forvo.com/word/honest/] But the Canadian pronounce [ˈɒnɛst] here. [[Special:Contributions/138.229.16.126|138.229.16.126]] ([[User talk:138.229.16.126|talk]]) 09:58, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
:::No, they actually don't, you're just mishearing those. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:10, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
::::Maybe [ˈɒnəst]? [[Special:Contributions/138.229.16.126|138.229.16.126]] ([[User talk:138.229.16.126|talk]]) 11:40, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::The best transcriptions I can think of are: 1st [ˈɒnɪst] (Can), 2nd [ˈɑnəst] (US), 3rd [ˈɒnəst] (Can), but such transcriptions are still not 100% accurate: the [ə]s of the latter two are not identical. The unstressed vowel is reduced, with the exact realization depending somewhat on the speaker. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 12:09, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

* [[File:En-us-diet.ogg]]

[ˈdaɪət] or [ˈdaɪɛ̈t]? [[Special:Contributions/138.229.16.126|138.229.16.126]] ([[User talk:138.229.16.126|talk]]) 21:04, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
:Quite straightforwardly the former. The /d/ in English is not modally voiced, and this one isn't either. It's rather voiceless with the glottis open as for modally voiced consonants, and so is still distinct from /t/. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:12, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

If I pronounce the word ''honest'' as [ˈɒnɛst], people will notice me? [[Special:Contributions/198.99.29.213|198.99.29.213]] ([[User talk:198.99.29.213|talk]]) 21:11, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
:Why would you? Why would you do that if you can simply pronounce it with either with [ə]~[ɪ]? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:12, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

::I always pronounce as [ˈɒnɪst], I meant if someone pronounce as [ˈɒnɛst], English-speakers will notice it? [[Special:Contributions/198.99.29.213|198.99.29.213]] ([[User talk:198.99.29.213|talk]]) 10:51, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
:::I can't judge for everyone, though it'll depend on how quickly it is said, I'd say. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:38, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

::::[ˈɒnɛst] doesn't exist really? [[User:雞雞|雞雞]] ([[User talk:雞雞|talk]]) 18:46, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::I can't judge all possible accents and there are definitely many second-language speakers that pronounce a [ɛ], although I doubt many of them would pronounce the [ɒ] like that. It would definitely be a marked pronunciation. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:08, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::I think [ˈɒnɛ̈st] is correct. [[Special:Contributions/198.99.29.213|198.99.29.213]] ([[User talk:198.99.29.213|talk]]) 20:38, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::Read the latest (i.e. 8th) edition of Gimson's Pronunciation of English - Google Books should have a decent preview of it. It discusses the RP/GA schwa in the section 8.9.13. All of the qualities it mentions are phonetically central (one even somewhat more back), none are front. You can hear a rather front schwa in [[Scouse]] and (less commonly) [[Geordie]] (see Accents of English 2, page 376), as well as some non-native varieties, which may realize the schwa as {{IPA|[e ~ ɛ]}}, when it is written {{angle bracket|e}} in the orthographical form. And a friendly advice: don't repeat the same thing over and over again without providing evidence for your claims. It's annoying. [[User:Peter238|Peter238]] ([[User talk:Peter238|talk]]) 19:32, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

== SA dreadnought race ==

Hi Jorisv, my apologies for the revert, but I don't believe your change was grammatically accurate. Did you mean to change something else? Best, [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]]&nbsp;[[WP:OMT|[majestic titan]]]</sup> 21:53, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
:No, but I now see I read it wrong. I saw the past participle and couldn't find a finite verb accompanying it, nor parse an adjectival meaning, and therefore figured that a past tense was intended. Maybe it was because I was tired, because now I understood it with its adjectival meaning just fine. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:53, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
::No worries—I just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed any other grammar errors! [[User:The ed17|Ed]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:The ed17|[talk]]]&nbsp;[[WP:OMT|[majestic titan]]]</sup> 03:55, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

== forest ==

* [[File:En-us-forest.ogg]]

I hear [ˈfɔɹɛstʃ]. [[Special:Contributions/198.99.29.213|198.99.29.213]] ([[User talk:198.99.29.213|talk]]) 12:31, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
:[ˈfɔɻəstˢ]. The approximant is retroflex, the reduced vowel is roughly mid, and there is some fricative-like element after the plosive that sounds more like a fricative release, and not close to [ʃ]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:40, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

== θ ==

Is there some American pronounce the word ''thing'' as [t̪ɪŋ]? [[Special:Contributions/198.99.29.213|198.99.29.213]] ([[User talk:198.99.29.213|talk]]) 21:33, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

[t̪ɪŋ] is incorrect? [[Special:Contributions/198.99.29.213|198.99.29.213]] ([[User talk:198.99.29.213|talk]]) 22:48, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

== Asteroid belt ==

Hello JorisvS, Glad to make your acquaintance. I presume you must be one of the overseers for this topic??? Hey, I noticed that you removed my meteorite photo and made the comment, “…and how does a meteorite fragment inform readers about that?” I admit I just sort of slapped that in there without giving it much thought. It was late in the day, too. That’s no excuse, right? Anyway, instead of feeling disappointed that you did that, believe it or not, I am happy that you did. It caused me to think…sort of a stimulation for my mind to “reinvent the wheel.” Well, anyway, I woke up this morning with a new twist for a caption for that photo. As far as I know, it is an original term of mine that I have mentioned a few times in my writings. I have referred to meteorites as being asteroid DANDRUFF, which is very relevant to that particular point in the Wiki article. Well, during a collision, smaller asteroids/meteoroids which can eventually become METEORITES, flake off, if you will, just like dandruff ‘flakes’ off of someone’s scalp. (Just in case you’re wondering, I Googled “meteorites asteroid dandruff” and found no references. There was one about cosmic dandruff. So, my point is original.) The point that I would like to get over to the readers of that portion of that article is this: If asteroid ‘dandruff’ can makes its way all the way from outer space down to the Earth, why does the general consensus think that it is so inconceivable for an asteroid to do the very same??? It is food for thought, if you will. I simply want to awaken people to that fact. What they do with it after that is entirely up to them. Ironically, just before logging into Wikipedia this morning, I noticed a front-page Internet news story regarding an asteroid that might come dangerously close to our planet in October 2017!!! Finally, I am currently preparing to publish my 11-volume book series, of which I have made no mention of it on Wikipedia. It is already on KDP. I sort of quickly “threw” it on there just to start somewhere. Anyway, in the volume titled “Kiss my ASSTEROID,” I made mention that meteorites are the dandruff of asteroids. In the volume “OBLITERATION,” I mentioned a dream that I had regarding two asteroids colliding with one another, similar to the scene in the movie “Meteor,” a comet careened into an asteroid and it ended up heading towards Earth. Well, I hope I made my point clear. Please take a look at my caption revision and the text edit that I made, as well. I hope you feel that it is of value and will allow it to remain. If not, well, what can I say? Apparently, you’re the boss! Cheers and have a great day, GeoGozz[[User:GEOGOZZ|GEOGOZZ]] ([[User talk:GEOGOZZ|talk]]) 09:54, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
:Well, meteorites are fragments of asteroids and the asteroid belt is filled with asteroids, so of course they're related. And all NEOs have made their way from another place, presumably the asteroid belt, to their current Earth-crossing orbits. Nature does not distinguish between asteroids and [[meteoroid]]s. That said, when the sections in question talk about very different things than meteorites, an image of a meteorite does not contribute anything to that section and hence should not be there. Also note that Wikipedia is not the place for promoting your original analogy between meteorites and dandruff. And you might want to try to learn to make your point with fewer words, because that helps to get your point across to other people. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:02, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

== Table of Varieties in Gheg Page removed ==
Hi, [[User:Kwamikagami|Kwamikagami]] had removed long time ago the gheg / tosk variation table ? Why ?
* http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gheg_Albanian&oldid=565364004
* http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gheg_Albanian&oldid=565412522
In his edit he writed (→‎Differences between varieties: move to main article), where is this main article ???
Thanks [[Special:Contributions/87.67.254.237|87.67.254.237]] ([[User talk:87.67.254.237|talk]]) 05:54, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
:A simple investigation you could easily do yourself: "Main article", maybe [[Albanian language]]? It should be found in its "Dialects" section. It isn't there, but it does link to a main article, [[Albanian dialects]]. Maybe there? Yes! It makes sense to move it to that article, because it is a comparison of Albanian varieties, not about Gheg Albanian specifically. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:02, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
::Thanks but he could show a link for it in the Gheg page, in "See also"... [[Special:Contributions/87.66.216.43|87.66.216.43]] ([[User talk:87.66.216.43|talk]]) 10:05, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
:::Sure, it should be linked anyway, so until the wikilink can be placed in the article, it makes sense to put it in the See also section. I have added it. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:50, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

==[[Ket language]]==
Dear [[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]]. ''[[E.g.]]'' is [[Latin (language)]] and should be italicized.  [[IMHO]].  Happy editing.  <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b>]] ([[User talk:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#000">☎</b>]])</span> 16:27, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
:I understand why you'd think that, but it's not just me: [[WP:ITALICS]] says "Loanwords or phrases that have common use in English, however—praetor, Gestapo, samurai, esprit de corps, e.g., i.e.—do not require italicization." about this. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:01, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
::OK.  Although if it says "do not ''require''" one could construe it as a permissive application.  In any event, it is of no great consequence.  <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b>]] ([[User talk:7&amp;6=thirteen|<b style="color:#000">☎</b>]])</span> 17:16, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

==Breton pronunciation==
Hello JorisvS! About that change [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Breton_language&diff=659161477&oldid=659158843], my reference was a serious one, a Linguistic Atlas, quite new (2001) and the more recent one, made by a Breton University (Brest), with a special map with that word. You can find the same pronunciation in dictionaries.--[[User:Trec&#39;hlid mitonet|Trec&#39;hlid mitonet]] ([[User talk:Trec&#39;hlid mitonet|talk]]) 16:35, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
:I'm sure one can find many places where /r/ is written. However, /r/ is often used to replace ''any'' rhotic sound. My main objection is that it does not correspond to the sound file we have and the [[Breton language#Phonology|phonology section]]. This means that we cannot change that piecemeal like you did, because that only introduces inconsistencies. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:57, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
::''Nouvel atlas linguistique de la Basse-Bretagne'' (2001) makes the difference between different kinds of /r/: for the word ''brezhoneg'' (map 454) the [r] has 102 spots; the [ʀ] 64; the [ʁ] only 11 spots; and [ɽ] 3 spots. We are far from what is said on WP.--[[User:Trec&#39;hlid mitonet|Trec&#39;hlid mitonet]] ([[User talk:Trec&#39;hlid mitonet|talk]]) 14:31, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
:::"Spots"? And how does it address my objections/concerns? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:43, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

== Renamed article ==

JorisvS, I see that you renamed [[Health effects of sun exposure]] and its Talk page, to say "sunlight" instead. Please, can you also do the same to the archive page [[Talk:Health_effects_of_sun_exposure/Archive_1]], to resolve the broken wiki link on the Talk page? Thanks much. —[[User:Patrug|Patrug]] ([[User talk:Patrug|talk]]) 11:20, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
:{{Done}}. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:34, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

==Book title is "ltinisct" not "latinisct"==
Hi, you reverted my contribution in [[Gheg_Albanian]], but the title of the book use "ltinisct" not "latinisct", just check the "archive.org" link and the book title page, if you do a search on Google, with "Fialuur i voghel Sccyp e latinisct" you dont find all link but if you use Google "[https://www.google.com/search?q=Fialuur+i+voghel+Sccyp+e+ltinisct&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 Fialuur i voghel Sccyp e ltinisct]", then you get the link for the Google books and others pages... That's all... [[Special:Contributions/87.66.216.43|87.66.216.43]] ([[User talk:87.66.216.43|talk]]) 11:22, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
:Thank you for finding this typo. However, normally, an edit that looks like yours (with the removal of the vowel letter) would be just plain [[WP:Vandalism|vandalism]], which is why I reverted you. Other editors cannot be expected to somehow know that it is not vandalism. Therefore, if you want to prevent an edit such as this to be incorrectly identified as such, you should add an edit summary to tell other editors that it is a typo; you can also include the link in the edit summary, which should help support your assertion that it is, in fact, a typo (a vandal, of course, could also say he is 'correcting a typo'; I've seen this happen). --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:31, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

== Flyby / fly-by ==

Hi JorisvS, Regarding my recent edit of the word "flyby" in the article [[Jupiter]], I asked an American editor for her opinion on the spelling before I altered the article.  Her response to my question is here. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Summerdrought#Flying_by_with_a_fly-by]

I shall not be making any further changes as my policy is to avoid edit wars, but I thought you may be interested in a viewpoint from elsewhere. [[User:Summerdrought|Summerdrought]] ([[User talk:Summerdrought|talk]]) 22:43, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
:I can understand where she was getting at with its etymology. I simply looked through Wiktionary ([[wikt:flyby]]) and several articles to see their preferred spelling. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:12, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

== [t̪] ==

Hello, to pronounce the word ''thing'' as [t̪ɪŋ] is correct, because it's written in ''[[New York English]]'', and I've never heard [t̪ɪŋ]. [[User:雞雞|雞雞]] ([[User talk:雞雞|talk]]) 16:00, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
:Thank you for finding that example. I wouldn't call it 'correct' (it is hardly the norm), but simply a pronunciation of some speakers. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:55, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
::It's not ''incorrect'', but it's ''informal''. [[User:雞雞|雞雞]] ([[User talk:雞雞|talk]]) 21:10, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
::''Informal'' is not ''wrong'', right? [[User:雞雞|雞雞]] ([[User talk:雞雞|talk]]) 00:49, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
:::I didn't say it was incorrect. I just wanted to distinguish between normative supraregional (which is referred to as 'correct') English, which distinguishes t and θ and d and ð, and the regional characteristics of New York English. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:24, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

== Dari language ==

Hello, Joris -- What do you think of this edit to [[Dari language]]? [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dari_language&diff=prev&oldid=658907360] Also take note of the user name. I was going to undo the next edit after this one ("unexplained content removal"), but then I saw this one and figured they could both be undone in one edit if necessary. [[User:CorinneSD|CorinneSD]] ([[User talk:CorinneSD|talk]]) 15:50, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
:Well, they are regularly called either, but given the user's name, I'd say this edit is simply intended as POV and can be reverted as such. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 23:43, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

:Hello, Joris -- I was looking at your recent edit to [[Dari language]] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dari_language&type=revision&diff=667774883&oldid=667758758], and I noticed the combination of "twenty-five percent" and "one-third". I'm wondering whether it wouldn't sound better if both percentages were in the same number format, either:

:*between twenty-five and thirty-three (or thirty-five, if rounded up) percent", or

:*between one-fourth and one-third". I'll leave this up to you. [[User:CorinneSD|CorinneSD]] ([[User talk:CorinneSD|talk]]) 19:17, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
::I hadn't seen that, given that I was just reverting some bad edit. It makes sense to make it the same. And given the uncertainty involved, it makes more sense to opt for the second way, because that does not suggest more accuracy than there is. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:19, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

== مهم ==

* [[File:Ar-مهم.ogg]]

Hello, you hear [muˈhɪm], [mʊˈhɪm] or [moˈhɪm] ? [[User:雞雞|雞雞]] ([[User talk:雞雞|talk]]) 22:36, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
:The two vowels sound equally close, and not fully close. That would suggest [mʊˈhɪm], but I have the impression that they are fully back and front, respectively, not near-back and near-close, so [mu̞hɪ̟m]=[mu̞hi̞m] if you want that level of precision. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:34, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

== About the distribution of Muslim Tats ==

Hello JorisvS (sounds pretty Dutch, are you Dutch perhaps? ;) )

I'd like to hear your opinion about the ''actual status'' and difference between the so called ''Caucasian Tats'', living primarily in Russia/Azerbaijan and the ''Tats from Iran''[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tat_people_%28Iran%29]

What is the actual difference between the two groups and aren't some sources left out that describe the definition? Like some other users I've encountered sources and books [https://books.google.nl/books?id=sl_dDVctycgC&pg=RA1-PA310&dq=iranian+languages+in+east+azerbaijan&hl=nl&sa=X&ei=rQZNVdSSFouQsAG9soCIDQ&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=iranian%20languages%20in%20east%20azerbaijan&f=false] that state that there are Muslim Tats in Iran as well, like the same ones that live in Dagestan/Azerbaijan. While historically, this could be totally correct given that a large exodus happened of Caucasian Muslims towards Iran/Turkey following Russia's conquest of the Caucasus, but of course thats only my assumption. 

For example in the book I just linked you, it is mentioned that the "Muslim Tats" live in both Azerbaijan, Iran and Russia, but is it ment that those from Azerbaijan/Russia are the "Tat people (Caucasus)" while those from Iran are the "Tat people (Iran)" ?

I hoped you had perhaps a good idea about this relatively confusing thingy.

Bests - [[User:LouisAragon|LouisAragon]] ([[User talk:LouisAragon|talk]]) 19:19, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
:I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the subject, but from what I can see, they speak quite distinct languages. The [[Tat language (Caucasus)|Caucasian Tats speak]] a Southwestern Iranian language closely related to Persian proper, whereas [[Tati language (Iran)|those from Iran speak]] several Northwestern II Iranian languages. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:27, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

{{tps}} After reading this exchange, out of curiosity I read the articles on [[Tati language (Iran)]] and [[Tat people (Iran)]]. JorisvS, if you have time, could you take a look at the first sentence in the latter article? It is not clear, but I don't know how to fix it. [[User:CorinneSD|CorinneSD]] ([[User talk:CorinneSD|talk]]) 15:54, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

::It's a bit odd though. Yes I noted that the Caucasian Tats speak a Southwestern Iranian language and the Iranian Tats a northwestern one, less closely related to Persian. 
::Did you open the link for that book I sent you? Its a bit confusing as that part ''would make'' one think that there are Caucasian Tats in Iran too. I guess its just because both ethnicities just use the word Tat but aren't actually the same. Funny thing is that there is another group of ''Tats'' and they speak a variety of Persian too, namely the [[Armeno-Tats]], aka "Tatified/Persified Armenians".
::Thanks for your reply anyway Joris.
:: - [[User:LouisAragon|LouisAragon]] ([[User talk:LouisAragon|talk]]) 22:45, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

== Wilson ==

I think [wilsõ] is wrong. [[User:雞雞|雞雞]] ([[User talk:雞雞|talk]]) 20:10, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
:Context please. There is no sound file or anything else for me to go at. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:19, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
::I meant that I don't think [wilsõ] is a correct pronunciation. [[User:雞雞|雞雞]] ([[User talk:雞雞|talk]]) 12:32, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
:::In English? Then, no. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:35, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
::::Wilson is not a French surname, I don't think [wilsɔ̃] or [wilsõ] is correct. [[User:雞雞|雞雞]] ([[User talk:雞雞|talk]]) 14:06, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
:::::As I said, in English, no, not correct. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:40, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
::::::Generally, French people pronounce it [wilsɔn], I've never heard [wilsɔ̃]. [[User:雞雞|雞雞]] ([[User talk:雞雞|talk]]) 16:36, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
:::::::[wilsɔn] looks like French speakers trying a bit to imitate the English pronunciation. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:57, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
::::::::AFAIK, speakers of Quebec French (I assume that's the variety you're talking about) tend to do a better job at approximating the English pronunciation than the Europeans do. They even use the rhotacized schwa in words like ''hamburger''. That said, I have no idea which of these pronunciations is correct, and in which varieties. {{IPA|[wilsɔn]}} is not inconceivable; the word ''Vincennes'' is pronounced {{IPA|[vɛ̃sɛn]}} (see [[French phonology#Low vowels]]), so the word-final sequence {{IPA|[ɛn]}} is permitted. Who knows, maybe its back equivalent {{IPA|[ɔn]}} is also permitted. [[User:Peter238|Peter238]] ([[User talk:Peter238|talk]]) 00:23, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::There's ''bonne'' [bɔn], among others. The sequence is certainly permitted. It's just that in native French orthography /-ɔn/ is written -''onne'', and /-ɔ̃/ ''-on''. Imitating English would mean the speaker would have to know not to pronounce the word as written. ---[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:46, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::Yeah, that explains it. Thanks. [[User:Peter238|Peter238]] ([[User talk:Peter238|talk]]) 09:43, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

== [[wikipedia:V|Vandalism]] ==

Why do you revert my image of [[Tyche (hypothetical planet)|Tyche]], this is hard than I thought, it's easy. Thanks. :) --<b><big>[[User:Jcpag2012|Jc]][[User_talk:Jcpag2012|pag]][[Special:Contributions/Jcpag2012|2012]]</big></b> <small>(a.k.a. John Carlo)</small> from Wikipedia 08:35, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
:I didn't claim it was vandalism. The image is rather meaningless, especially because there is no information on what it is based, which means that it is impossible to assess if it is a reasonable impression of what it could look like. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 12:44, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

==Talkback==
{{talkback|Talk:Swiss Standard German|"Variety"|ts=08:11, 11 May 2015 (UTC)}}
Please discuss subject related issues on the its own talk page. Thx. [[User:ZH8000|ZH8000]] ([[User talk:ZH8000|talk]]) 08:11, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

== Reversion of edit on 2010 RF43  ==

I was wondering why you reverted my edit on [[2010 RF43]] and what I should do in the future regarding that type of edit. I've been going through CS1 date errors trying to fix the ones I can. Thanks for the help. [[User:Machdelu|Machdelu]] ([[User talk:Machdelu|talk]]) 15:03, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
:I didn't quite revert it, but fixed the CS1 error in another way. Instead of commenting out the number of observations, I changed the date= parameter to type=. Dates that are accompanied by such things as the number of observations used or "last obs" aren't really what the date parameter is for anyway, and it would be misleading to use that as the "date". --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:21, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

== Oort cloud ==
Your talk page isn't just for you to receive messages, it also serves as an archive of messages you've received so it's clear to all you've already been cautioned about your problematic behaviour (and help connect patterns of bad behaviour).  As such, it's important that messages to you about how it's inappropriate for you to use Wikipedia to publish your own ideas belong here.  Your own ideas about what minor planets should be called (or what Paul, Hal, or whoever might secretly) aren't appropriate for inclusion in Wikipedia.  Instead, we need to stick to what sources say and mean - we can't say "bodies that formed in the inner solar system, because Weissman & Levison don't say or mean that.  You might not like asteroid (nor, really, do I, though I recognise the practical difficulties in re-aligning all the literature terminology in a single fell swoop), but that's not for here.  Try the IAU or MNRAS or whoever.  [[User:WilyD|Wily]][[User talk:WilyD|<span style="color:#FF8800;">D</span>]] 15:58, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
:I like to keep discussions in one place, so that they're actually <u>a good archive and not fragmented</u>. If you like to have a notice on my talk page (or even have the entire discussion copied here), that's fine with me. Don't assume my motivations (like you've been doing), because you're dead wrong about them, and it's not "problematic behavior", it's trying to discuss something. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:22, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

== Johnson ==

Hello, ''Johnson'' can be either a last name or a first name? [[Special:Contributions/162.247.123.201|162.247.123.201]] ([[User talk:162.247.123.201|talk]]) 21:07, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
:It is primarily a surname ([[Johnson]]), but can be a given name ([[wikt:Johnson]]), with a few examples at [[Johnson Smith]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:18, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

== Reviewing Rutger's class project ==

Hey.  If you want to review them, see [[:Category talk:Articles in class projects/Rutgers]] for the articles I have identified as being part of the Rutger's class project this year or last.  I've struck out the ones I've copy-edited.  Hopefully the cat covers the problematic cases, and the better students in that class actually improved their articles and so went unnoticed.  — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 18:39, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

== May 2015 ==
[[File:Stop hand nuvola.svg|30px|left|alt=Stop icon]] Your recent editing history at [[:Bulgarian alphabet]] shows that you are currently engaged in an [[Wikipedia:Edit warring|edit war]]. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you get reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's [[Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines|talk page]] to work toward making a version that represents [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See [[Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle|BRD]] for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant [[Wikipedia:Noticeboards|noticeboard]] or seek [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution|dispute resolution]].  In some cases, you may wish to request temporary [[Wikipedia:Protection policy|page protection]]. 

'''Being involved in an edit war can result in your being [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked from editing]]'''&mdash;especially if you violate the [[Wikipedia:Edit warring#The three-revert rule|three-revert rule]], which states that an editor must not perform more than three [[Help:Reverting|reverts]] on a single page within a 24-hour period.  Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert.  Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;'''even if you don't violate the three-revert rule'''&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.<!-- Template:uw-3rr --> [[User:PureRED|PureRED]] ([[User talk:PureRED|talk]]) 14:30, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
:Unfortunately, it is hard to argue with an anon who insists on his way, as you and CodeCat have now found out as well. The only thing we then can do is keep reverting, collectively. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:10, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

== neither ==

* [[File:En-us-neither-2.ogg]]

Hello JorisvS, I heard [ˈnaɪ̯d̪ðɚ], it's really affricate ? [[User:Fête Phung|Fête Phung]] ([[User talk:Fête Phung|talk]]) 16:04, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
:I don't hear it in this case. What you're hearing may be a bit of a pause. That said, I think I have heard fortitioning of the dental fricatives to affricates. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:07, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

* [[File:Qc-Pêche.oga]]

Do you hear [pɐɪ̯ʃ]? [[User:Fête Phung|Fête Phung]] ([[User talk:Fête Phung|talk]]) 16:22, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
:Yes. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 20:21, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

== Minor planets correction ==

Thank you very much for this correction! Unfortunately, the definitions made are such elaborate that I still have problems to got through. Perhaps, you also may have look at [[wiktionary:minor planet|here]].--[[User:Sae1962|Sae1962]] ([[User talk:Sae1962|talk]]) 09:45, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
:Thank you for bringing that to my attention. The definition there was basically correct, but the relationship with other terms shaky. There are dominant bodies in solar orbit, the (major) [[planet]]s, and populations of other bodies, the [[minor planet]]s and [[comet]]s, or per the 2006 IAU terms, [[dwarf planet]]s and [[small Solar System body|small Solar System bodies]]. All known comets are small Solar System bodies and the large majority of minor planets are also small Solar System bodies, but some of them are [[dwarf planet]]s (with most of them not known for sure: [[list of possible dwarf planets]]). A [[planemo]] is any body that is round: the planets, dwarf planets, and the round moons (the [[Moon]], the [[Galilean moons]], and several moons of Saturn and Uranus, [[Triton (moon)|Triton]], and [[Charon (moon)|Charon]] (there are also a few trans-Neptunian moons that ''could'' be round). Some people use "planet" with the meaning of "planemo", and then "major planet" is used to refer to the dominant eight that are called planets under the 2006 IAU definition. If there is still something you don't understand, don't hesitate to ask. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:39, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

== Talk Pages ==

You should read the guidelines more carefully if you are going to refer to them.

*''The basic rule—with some specific exceptions outlined below—is that you should not edit or delete the comments of other editors without their permission.''
*''Never edit or move someone's comment to change its meaning, even on your own talk page. Striking text constitutes a change in meaning, and should only be done by the user who wrote it or someone acting at their explicit request.''
*''Cautiously editing or removing another editor's comments is sometimes allowed, but normally you should stop if there is any objection.''

I do not see anything in the list of exceptions that would justify this removal.  My undo of your removal was an objection so you should not have removed it the second time either.  '''[[User:Nyth83|<span style="color:#0000FF;">Nyth</span>]][[User talk:Nyth83|<span style="color:#00CC66;">63</span>]]''' 17:25, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
:There are exceptions to the 'not without permission'. Your post is very much disruptive, especially it being in all caps. That's one of the exceptions in there. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:00, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

== Venus' vs. Venus's in article [[1685 Toro]] ==

Hello JorisvS,<br>Thanks for the corrections of that article. I was not sure about the correct form, so I used that from the source itself, see the abstract on http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1973AJ.....78..510W - Are you really sure it is with two "s"?<br>Kind regards,<br>[[User:Renerpho|Renerpho]] ([[User talk:Renerpho|talk]]) 21:30, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
:The basic rule is +'s, with +' for plurals ending in -s. Biblical and classical names typically also take +'. The usage note at [[wikt:'#English]] explains why some people use +' for other names(/proper nouns). The difference between -s' and -s's is not merely orthographical, but can be heard: -s's sounds like "-sses". --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:52, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

== Turing machine: that vs. which ==

Concerning our recent edits in [[Turing machine]]: apparently we both agree on the rules, but disagree on whether the clauses are restrictive. I think they both aren't, since the subject is already completely determined without the relative clause, viz. by the name "Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid" (there is only one such book) and "Turing tarpit". That's why I thought/think "which" should be preferred over "that". Do you think the clauses are restrictive? - [[User:Jochen Burghardt|Jochen Burghardt]] ([[User talk:Jochen Burghardt|talk]]) 20:49, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
:They are most definitely restrictive. A [[restrictiveness|restrictive clause]] specifies ("restricts") the reference of its head. "Any computing system or language" refers to a far broader set than "any computing system or language that is generally considered useless for practical computing", and therefore the subordinate clause is restrictive. In "a famous book that discusses the Church–Turing thesis", the subordinate clause is also meant for specificity, and when spoken aloud no pause, typical of non-restrictive clauses, can be heard (and hence no comma is written even when people use "which" in this case), indicating a restrictive clause. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:34, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

== [[:File:Artist impression of KOI-1686.01.jpg]] ==

Hello Joris, can you please delete this [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Artist_impression_of_KOI-1686.01.jpg file on Wikimedia Commons]?

Just nominate for deletion, thank you. :)  --<b><big>[[User:Jcpag2012|J]][[Special:Contributions/Jcpag2012|C]][[User talk:Jcpag2012|P]]</big></b> <small>(a.k.a. '''[[Special:EmailUser/Jcpag2012|John Carlo Pagcaliwagan]]''')</small> 07:58, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
:You should be able to do that yourself. When you're at the image's page on Commons, to the left there is a tool called "Nominate for deletion". --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:00, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

== unstressed vowel ==

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TTk55YFIwI

Hello, this man pronounces it the word ''congratulations'' as [kʰɒnˌɡɹʷæt͡ʃʉu̯ˈleɪ̯ʃənz], the first syllable is wrong? [[User:Fête Phung|Fête Phung]] ([[User talk:Fête Phung|talk]]) 19:16, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

The first syllable is [kʰɒn]? [[User:Fête Phung|Fête Phung]] ([[User talk:Fête Phung|talk]]) 21:26, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
:Sounds like maybe [n͡ŋ] and the /k/ rather weakly aspirated. Hardly 'wrong', especially given that it's a song and said pretty emphatically, but not quite the pronunciation that one would typically find in casual speech. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:21, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

== epiglottal fricatives really pharyngeal trills? ==

Hey, if you're up to it, the Esling (2010) ref I used at [[laryngeal consonant]] does not distinguish pharyngeal from epiglottal, with the IPA epiglottal fricatives reanalyzed as trills.  Not something I'll get to soon, as we'd probably need to delete the examples.  Not sure what to do with the pharyngeal-epiglottal article. 

We should probably add to [[vowel]] his division of vowel space into front, raised, & retracted.  Lots of indications of this in the older lit, but he's the expert for laryngeal sounds.

BTW, how do you intend your user name to be pronounced? — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 21:17, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
:I can't access Esling. I don't know if it is good to lump everything into [[pharyngeal consonant]], because they're still distinct articulations, though your description in the lead there of which can and cannot be reliably produced may well be accurate. Then again, I can easily prevent epiglottal trilling when producing a fricative by tensing up the pharynx. What is a division of vowel space into "front, raised, and retracted" supposed to be? 
:As if written "YorisvS". Do whatever you like with last two letters, you can spell them out. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:30, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

::His description of vowel space as it relates to oral+laryngeal articulation, based on the three directions of tongue movement: fronted (i y e ø ɛ œ æ a ɨ ʉ ɘ ɵ ɜ ɞ), raised (u ɯ ʊ o ɤ ɨ ʉ ɵ), and retracted (ɑ ɒ ʌ ɔ ɞ), with ä none of the above.  (That is, there are no back vowels.)  They'd be aligned, if possible, under the palatal, velar, and pharyngeal columns of the C chart.  Can't line them up that way without twisting the chart, so he adds lines to the V chart like a Venn diagramm.  — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 22:53, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
:::And does he then distinguish between several dimensions within those, especially front, or something? And what's with vowels being in both "fronted" and "raised" or "retracted", especially given that they're supposed to be aligned to palatal–velar–pharyngeal? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:25, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

== potato ==

Hello, as far as I know, the normal pronunciation is [pəˈteɪ̯ɾoʊ̯], but [poʊ̯ˈteɪ̯ɾoʊ̯] is wrong? [[User:Fête Phung|Fête Phung]] ([[User talk:Fête Phung|talk]]) 15:15, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
:It does sound a bit weird or forced, so I'd say yes. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:25, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

American people pronounce the word ''muffin'' as [ˈmɐfɪn] or [ˈmɐfən]? [[User:Fête Phung|Fête Phung]] ([[User talk:Fête Phung|talk]]) 19:01, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
:[[wikt:muffin]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:39, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

* [[File:En-us-muffin.ogg]]

This man pronounce it [ˈmɐfən], but [ˈmɐfɪn] is rare in United States? [[User:Fête Phung|Fête Phung]] ([[User talk:Fête Phung|talk]]) 12:44, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
:It's not quite [ə]. More like a centralized [ɪ]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:46, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
::Is there some American people who pronounce exactly [ˈmɐfɪn]? [[User:Fête Phung|Fête Phung]] ([[User talk:Fête Phung|talk]]) 14:48, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
:::Probably, though it'll depend on how you perceive "exactly [ɪ]". --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:53, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
::::Is there some American people who pronounce ''person'' as [ˈpɚsən], but ''medicine'' as [ˈmɛɾɪsɪn] ? [[User:Fête Phung|Fête Phung]] ([[User talk:Fête Phung|talk]]) 15:02, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
:::::I don't know. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:05, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
::::::So, do you pronounce it [ˈmɛɾəsən] ? [[User:Fête Phung|Fête Phung]] ([[User talk:Fête Phung|talk]]) 15:23, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Ok, I'll try to answer Fete:
* Longman Pronunciation Dictionary recommends {{IPA|/ˈmed.s(ə)n/}} for both GA and RP. I may be wrong, but {{IPA|/ˈmedɪsɪn/}} is probably an old-fashioned RP pronunciation.
* The {{IPA|/ɪ/}} - {{IPA|/ə/}} distinction is meaningless for speakers with the [[weak vowel merger]]. You live in Canada, right? Ignore unstressed {{IPA|/ɪ/}} and pronounce it the same as {{IPA|/ə/}}, just as you'd ignore {{IPA|/ɒ/}} and pronounce it the same as {{IPA|/ɑː/}}.
* In case of at least some speakers, you really need quite an ear to hear the {{IPA|/ɪ/}} - {{IPA|/ə/}} distinction in modern RP, and that's because the weak {{IPA|/ɪ/}} is retracted to {{IPAblink|ɪ̈}}, which is just a bit higher than the highest allophone of {{IPA|/ə/}}, that is {{IPAblink|ɘ}}. Yet, if you want to speak RP and don't produce this distinction, you'll sound like a near-RP speaker from Norfolk. [[User:Peter238|Peter238]] ([[User talk:Peter238|talk]]) 10:05, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

== plutonian moons ==

The cite you added [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Moons_of_Pluto&curid=3048284&diff=665598802&oldid=665598691 here] was to a sentence fragment. Could you clarify what it means?  — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 20:45, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
:Hmm, apparently the point of the sentence got lost when I was merging that content from [[Pluto]] with the sentence about it that was already there.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Moons_of_Pluto&diff=prev&oldid=665598077] I've fixed it. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:27, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

== Wanted to let you know ==

Hello Joris,

I believe [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Malik_Mubashir_Awan this] is the same annoying IP hopper that for some time now is trying to systematically de-link Afghanistan from Pakistan and India on various linguistic, regional, and historical articles we've been both reverting for some time. Perhaps a SPI in the near future. (?)

Bests - [[User:LouisAragon|LouisAragon]] ([[User talk:LouisAragon|talk]]) 18:26, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
:Okay. I've seen some clearly non-constructive edits that I've rolled back. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 20:21, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

== [[Pluto]] ==

You revert (per [[WP:V|vandalism]]) old image of [[Pluto]] without a bit more cropping and enlarging to resize using [[GIMP]] combo from [http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/images/featuredImages/052715.jpg source URL] to increase resolution through the nearest neighbor. I want it, thanks. :) --<b><big>[[User:Jcpag2012|J]][[Special:Contributions/Jcpag2012|C]][[User talk:Jcpag2012|P]]</big></b> <small>(a.k.a. '''[[Special:EmailUser/Jcpag2012|John Carlo Pagcaliwagan]]''')</small> 09:17, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
:You should look better at what I did. Nowhere did I call it "vandalism". I reverted those edits because enlarging it is utterly pointless. The resolution of the image is low and enlarging it doesn't make it any better. Cropping ''could'' be okay but is still pointless I think, because the actual displayed size of Pluto shouldn't be any bigger than it is because the image is of low resolution, and hence cropping would probably simply mean that the total image becomes out of proportion relative to the infobox.
:P.S. [[WP:V]] links to "verifiability", not "vandalism". --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:27, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
::{{ping|JorisvS}} [[Pluto]] will be zoom in disc, true to be okay with that. --<b><big>[[User:Jcpag2012|J]][[Special:Contributions/Jcpag2012|C]][[User talk:Jcpag2012|P]]</big></b> <small>(a.k.a. '''[[Special:EmailUser/Jcpag2012|John Carlo Pagcaliwagan]]''')</small> 06:53, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
:::I have no idea what you're trying to say...
:::P.S. please put what you write in the appropriate section. Also, there is no need to use "<nowiki>{{ping|...</nowiki>" on the talk page of the user you're pinging. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:00, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
{{outdent|:::}} I also noted, that the pixelated version is completely inappropriate and I had to revert Jcpag2012's version of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:May_12_Pluto.jpg the image] back to the original. If that monkey business continues, I suggest to take a closer look at what's going on... <em>[[User:Rfassbind|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:forestgreen;"><span style="color:#00E6FF;">R</span>fassbind</span>]] <small>[[User talk:Rfassbind|'''-talk''']]</small></em>  15:20, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
:{{ping|Rfassbind}} Thank you! Jcpac2012 has been busy! Although he is not a vandal, he has a distinct track record of poor editing, due to, I suspect, lack of ability. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:17, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
::Talk page stalking here. Just a note, I've blocked Jcpac2012. The disruptive nature of his editing and obvious competence issues simply went too far. <span style="white-space:nowrap; text-shadow:gray 5px 3px 1px;">— [[User:Huntster|Huntster]] <small>([[User talk:Huntster|t]] [[Special:Emailuser/Huntster|@]] [[Special:Contributions/Huntster|c]])</small></span> 23:39, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

== Why revert? ==

I certainly won't revert you, but I note, per [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/e.g.], "In American English a comma should follow e.g. For example:
Female marsupials (e.g., kangaroos, opossums) have a pouch." [[User:JoeSperrazza|JoeSperrazza]] ([[User talk:JoeSperrazza|talk]]) 09:18, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

:Shouldn't that be ".... have pouches"? [[User:DOwenWilliams|DOwenWilliams]] ([[User talk:DOwenWilliams|talk]]) 15:28, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

== RM at Kurdish language ==

Hi. Regarding your comment [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kurdish_languages&diff=668264146&oldid=668247980 here], what do you mean by "both are the same ''name''"? "Kurdish language" and "Kurdish languages" do share the same words, but they are distinct terms. [[User:Khestwol|Khestwol]] ([[User talk:Khestwol|talk]]) 11:52, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
:"Kurdish" is the name/term and can already refer to the speech on its own, without any extra word required. However, because it can also refer to the people, and article titles have to be unique, a disambiguator has to be added. This is the "language(s)" part. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:18, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

==Chinese language/dialect==
Per [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Voiceless_alveolo-palatal_sibilant&oldid=669022147&diff=prev this] edit, I refer you to the [[User:Aeusoes1/Phone tables|guidelines]] for the example tables at the phone pages. In particular, note 1.4 specifically points to situations like Chinese where there is ambiguity or dispute with the language/dialect issue. — [[User:Aeusoes1|Æµ§œš¹]] <span title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">[[User talk:aeusoes1|<small><sub>[lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt]</sub></small>]]</span> 16:15, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
:Which is a) in your user space (you don't own those articles) b) I contest that in case of Chinese it is "ambiguous"; it is rather clearly a family of languages. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:05, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
::Nearly everything in that page is based on explicit consensus. If you look closely, you'll see that I linked to the specific conversation where that issue was discussed. 
::Chinese most certainly is an ambiguous case, though scholarly practice in general is to refer to Mandarin, Cantonese, etc. as "dialects." It's in our interest to be neutral, which is why we have [[varieties of Chinese]], not "Chinese languages" and why we have e.g. [[Wu Chinese]] and not "Wu language" (though we have redirects accordingly). — [[User:Aeusoes1|Æµ§œš¹]] <span title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">[[User talk:aeusoes1|<small><sub>[lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt]</sub></small>]]</span> 21:33, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
:::"Varieties of Chinese" and "Wu Chinese" are fully accurate and so quite fine. Structurally, the Chinese languages are as different, if not more so, than the Romance languages. Saying that they are/could be considered one language is like saying all speakers of Romance speak the Latin language. So no, not ambiguous. There are ''non''-linguistic factors that differentiate the Chinese situation from that of Romance (ethnicity, writing system, history?). But these are ''non''-linguistic factors. To use these in distinguishing languages, although fairly common, is dishonest linguistically. 
:::As for "consensus", there was almost no discussion and only three editors expressed their agreement, including yourself. Also, that has been over 7 years ago and consensus can change. Aside from all that, it was never promoted to an official guideline, else it would no longer have been in your user space. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:09, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
:::I'm not categorically opposed to grouping them, but the case of clear-cut dialects should at least be distinguished from the case of structurally distinct languages. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:12, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
::::Regarding Chinese as a language vs. as a group of languages, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But it is not your place to dismiss the large body of scholarship that disagrees with you. There is a sizable portion (in my own research, the vast majority) of scholarship that refers to these varieties as dialects. I suggest that you may want to step back from calling this "dishonest linguistically." 
::::There's no reason to quibble about how strong the consensus is. The guidelines reflect extensive discussion and I've even marked places that don't reflect discussion but seem agreed on in practice. The phone articles have reflected the particular policy with regards to Chinese, Arabic, etc. for years and the discussion itself, although involving only a few editors, was in a forum monitored by other editors who [[WP:SILENCE|could have disagreed but did not]].  There are a number of reasons why the guidelines are still in my userspace, but that they are should not be taken as an implication that there is not a consensus on them or that consensus is weak. In fact, one user even [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics/Archive 10#Linguistics guidelines|recently]] made reference to them as if they were official. 
::::If you would like to bring up the issue of how to present ambiguous cases like Chinese or Arabic at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics]], I think we could get as good a consensus as we got before. I'm not sure what sort of way we could distinguish between clear-cut cases of dialects and more ambiguous cases or the merits of doing so, but I invite you to make your case. — [[User:Aeusoes1|Æµ§œš¹]] <span title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">[[User talk:aeusoes1|<small><sub>[lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt]</sub></small>]]</span> 01:21, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
:::::You have not presented any argument why ''linguistically'' it makes sense to talk about Chinese ''dialects'', but Romance ''languages''. Reference to common practice is an [[argumentum ad populum]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:58, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
::::::Like I said, bring it up to see if you get a different consensus. If you want to know experts' rationale, you can look at the relevant sections of [[Chinese language]] and [[varieties of Chinese]]. — [[User:Aeusoes1|Æµ§œš¹]] <span title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">[[User talk:aeusoes1|<small><sub>[lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt]</sub></small>]]</span> 16:08, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
:::::::There is nothing about a supposed expert's rationale for using 'dialects'. Both talk about that the Chinese varieties are ''popularly'' called dialects (which nobody denies) and the (non-linguistic!) reasons for that. They also say that the differences are quite significant and the former specifically says that 'but linguists note that they are as diverse as a language family'. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 20:30, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
::::::::Quote: "Conventional English-language usage in Chinese linguistics is to use ''dialect'' for the speech of a particular place (regardless of status) while regional groupings like Mandarin and Wu are called ''dialect groups''."
::::::::Quote: "As Campbell (2008) explains, linguists often ignore mutual intelligibility when varieties share intelligibility with a central variety (i.e. prestige variety, such as Standard Mandarin), as the issue requires some careful handling when mutual intelligibility is inconsistent with language identity."
::::::::I think I've gone above what I need to convince you that a sizable portion of linguists refer to these varieties as dialects. Their reasoning is of academic interest for the articles in question and, if you'd like to contribute to those articles to expand on the issue you're more than welcome research it and do so. But it doesn't change our own approach of being neutral. Regards. — [[User:Aeusoes1|Æµ§œš¹]] <span title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)" class="IPA">[[User talk:aeusoes1|<small><sub>[lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt]</sub></small>]]</span> 00:34, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::That's not what I asked. I asked for ''reasons'' why it is not linguistically dishonest to call them dialects (which you've claimed). The only argument you seem to be able to muster is the fallacious ''argumentum ad populum''. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:17, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

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== Possible source ==

There's a video on Youtube of an Albanian teaching the alphabet titled "Learn Albanian with Viola. The Alphabet II"

If you skip to the 5th minute or so, you can see the tongue is between the teeth. I'm surprised why linguists don't know that Albanian ''ll'' is a dental lateral approximate, but then again, people used to believe that the "q" was pronounced like the "k". --[[Special:Contributions/68.239.10.168|68.239.10.168]] ([[User talk:68.239.10.168|talk]]) 15:24, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
:Youtube is ''not'' a ''reliable'' source ([[WP:RS]]). Moreover, looking at a speaker, seeing his tongue, and interpreting that as meaning it is dental is unreliable and ''[[WP:OR|original research]]'', which is strictly prohibited at Wikipedia. Instead, look for academic articles about the phonology of Albanian. If one says that ''ll'' is a "dental lateral approximant" (and not something ambiguous that you interpret to mean that), that makes it a source. Then look for sources that say it is alveolar to see if the source you found disagrees with the majority. Also, a source that only talks about ''ll'' being "velarized" contradicts neither of the aforementioned possible claims. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:34, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

== Barycenter merger and rename proposal ==

Dear JorisvS, if you have a spare moment to read the comment on the [[Talk:Barycenter#Merge_articles_.282015.29|Barycenter talk page]], I'd appreciate. It's about a proposal to rename the article. Whatever you see fit will be fine with me. -- Thx & cheers, [[User:Rfassbind|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:forestgreen;"><span style="color:#00E6FF;">R</span>fassbind</span>]] <small>[[User talk:Rfassbind|'''-talk''']]</small>  03:03, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

== Comment request ==

Hi! I was wondering if you could possibly comment on [[Talk:Pluto#NASA confirms Pluto as the largest object in the Kuiper belt|this discussion]]? Thanks! [[User:Chihciboy|Chihciboy]] ([[User talk:Chihciboy|talk]]) 18:42, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

== Precious ==

<div style="margin: auto; max-width: 60em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba( 192, 192, 192, 0.75 ); border-radius: 1em; border: 1px solid #a7d7f9; margin-bottom: 1em; padding: 0.5em 1em 1em; color: black;" class="ui-helper-clearfix">
<div>
<div style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; background-color: #ddd; border: 5px solid #ddd; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0.75); border-radius: 0.5em;">[[File:Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg|103px]]</div>
'''solar moon summary languages'''<br />
Thank you, Joris, for quality contributions to astronomy based on scientific background, such as updating [[Pluto]], for articles such as [[(144908) 2004 YH32]], categories and navboxes such as {{tl|SolarMoonSummary}}, for serving pronunciation in many languages, in articles like [[Linguolabial nasal]], page moves, redirects and helpful talk, - you are an [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/PumpkinSky Prize|awesome Wikipedian]]!

--[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 09:09, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
</div></div>
:Thank you very much! Much appreciated! --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:36, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

== Edit warring ==

[[File:Stop hand nuvola.svg|30px|left|alt=Stop icon]] Your recent editing history  shows that you are currently engaged in an [[Wikipedia:Edit warring|edit war]]. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you get reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's [[Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines|talk page]] to work toward making a version that represents [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See [[Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle|BRD]] for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant [[Wikipedia:Noticeboards|noticeboard]] or seek [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution|dispute resolution]].  In some cases, you may wish to request temporary [[Wikipedia:Protection policy|page protection]]. 

'''Being involved in an edit war can result in your being [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked from editing]]'''&mdash;especially if you violate the [[Wikipedia:Edit warring#The three-revert rule|three-revert rule]], which states that an editor must not perform more than three [[Help:Reverting|reverts]] on a single page within a 24-hour period.  Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert.  Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;'''even if you don't violate the three-revert rule'''&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.<!-- Template:uw-3rr --> [[User:Jeppiz|Jeppiz]] ([[User talk:Jeppiz|talk]]) 15:33, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
:{{ping|Jeppiz}} That would all be well if you would respect the [[WP:BRD]] cycle. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:35, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
::{{ping|JorisvS}} That applies to you as well. One user introduced Pashto. You reverted it. Another user added it, you reverted again (your first BRD violation). Only then did I add it, again you reverted (second BRD violation). [[WP:BRD]] does not mean you can veto other users and ignore a consensus contrary to what you prefer. That's [[WP:OWN]].[[User:Jeppiz|Jeppiz]] ([[User talk:Jeppiz|talk]]) 15:43, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
::{{ping|JorisvS}} And please don't me wrong, I love the work you're doing and I've been following it for a long time, you're one of the most useful contributors to the project. Still, we all need to remember that consensus is important. My placing the "warning" here was ''only'' to avoid a misfortunate situation where you accidentally would revert again, risk being blocked, and robbing the discussion of a valuable contributor. I would rather shoot myself in the foot than go to ANI and argue for a block on you, I can assure you. [[User:Jeppiz|Jeppiz]] ([[User talk:Jeppiz|talk]]) 15:50, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Jeppiz}} No, that user *reverted* my revert, which already violates WP:BRD, which I reverted again precisely because his edit violates BRD and you reverted again. If you look at it, without the addition is where the BRD cycle pauses during the discussion. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 16:11, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
:::;Quite possible. At any rate, let's focus on the discussion as it's clear the table needs be changed (several branches missing, others over-represented). Pashto most likely won't make the final cut, I agree.[[User:Jeppiz|Jeppiz]] ([[User talk:Jeppiz|talk]]) 16:14, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

== Talkback ==

{{talkback|Jeraphine_Gryphon}}
[[User:Gamebuster19901|Gamebuster19901]] [[User talk:Gamebuster19901|(Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Gamebuster19901|Contributions)]] 17:27, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

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== Pallas and Hygiea being dwarf planets ==

I was wondering something before - about [[2 Pallas]] and [[10 Hygiea]] being dwarf planets.
I'd say the odds are high. Images of Pallas from the HST show a rounded object. Hygiea appears to be an oblate spheroid, just like most planets and stars. Pallas appears to be an ellipsoid. This WOULD disqualify it from being a dwarf planet, if not for the fact that Haumea and Varuna are also ellipsoids, and Haumea is a dwarf planet and Varuna is nearly certain to be one.
Therefore, is it allowed for me to put those two in the Dwarf planets template under "Likely"? The odds of them being dwarf planets are high. [[User:DN-boards1|DN-boards1]] ([[User talk:DN-boards1|talk]]) 22:03, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
:First of all, have you seen a source that says the odds are high? I, for one, haven't. Now, if you google for images of Hygiea, you can find derived shape models. These are not ellipsoidal/spheroidal. Then again, look at [[67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko|Comet Churyumov–Gerasimenko]], and see how its derived model (in the Gallery) looks completely different from its actual shape. I'd say we simply don't know Hygiea's shape. Given its size and density (and hence composition), I'd say it still is a ''possibility''. [[Mimas (moon)|Mimas]] is round and a bit smaller, but also a lot icier. [[Phoebe (moon)|Phoebe]] used to be round and is less than half the size of Hygiea, but is also icier.
:Pallas looks rounded, but also lumpier than [[4 Vesta|Vesta]] appeared in HST imaged. Vesta looked round, except around its south pole. Vesta used to be round, but is no longer because it has been disrupted around its southern pole by big impacts. Furthermore, its trixial shape does not match those it would have for hydrostatic equilibrium (though this would by itself mean that it technically wouldn't fit the established definition of dwarf planet, I doubt it would have stopped people from calling it a dwarf planet; else [[Iapetus (moon)|Iapetus]] would not be called a dwarf planet either if it would have been in solar orbit; its dimension also don't match those it would have if in HE). As I said, Pallas doesn't look as nicely round as most of Vesta did and it is, like Vesta, a rocky body. In all, I sincerely doubt that it is one.
:At any rate, you'd need a source for your claims: [[WP:RS]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:31, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

:Vesta appears to have solidified while in HE but since been battered out of shape (unlike Iapetus which is simply frozen in an old HE). But AFAIK no-one thinks that Pallas or Hygiea were ever in HE. Of course, they could be like Phoebe, but we're unlikely to be able to say anything definitive any time soon. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 20:16, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

== Moon of 55637 ==

Thx for double-checking (some) of my edits (I consider that to be a very instructive mentoring). As I'm working on the ''List of Solar System objects by radius'', I came across the TNO [[(55637) 2002 UX25]] which is said to have a moon (with D: 193 km [http://arxiv.org/pdf/1403.6309v1.pdf per source, p.18]). Question: what's the designation of the secondary and is there anything (e.g. a redirect page to the primary) on wikipedia? -- Thx, [[User:Rfassbind|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:forestgreen;"><span style="color:#00E6FF;">R</span>fassbind</span>]] <small>[[User talk:Rfassbind|'''-talk''']]</small>  16:37, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
:It was apparently discovered in 2005[http://arxiv.org/pdf/1311.0553v1.pdf], but it seems to have been submitted in 2007, so then systematically it would be called either S/2005 (55637) 1 or S/2007 (55637) 1. Using the what redirects here tool, there is no redirect to its section at present. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:56, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
:''Update'': Googling leads to hits for both. We have 2005 in [[Template:Moons of dwarf planets]], but the French Wikipedia has 2007: [[fr:S/2007 (55637) 1]] and we have 2007 in [[Minor-planet moon]]. Using Google Scholar gives no live hits for either, but regular Google gives the book "''Le lune del systema solare''"[https://books.google.nl/books?id=sC-aBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA221&lpg=PA221&dq=%22S/2007+(55637)+1%22&source=bl&ots=IgbDN2tMWF&sig=L-Ly7AeVwL4F5wKIMdzIt6_DBLg&hl=nl&sa=X&ved=0CDYQ6AEwA2oVChMIwt78gbXzxgIVAwcsCh1-DwNP#v=onepage&q=%22S%2F2007%20(55637)%201%22&f=false] ("The moons of the solar system"), which has 2007 and which is the most reliable source I can dig up. Given all this, I'd opt for using 2007. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:13, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
::Thank you for that thorough clarification. So it's '''S/2007 (55637) 1''' (most likely) as I found in the [[pt:S/2007 (55637) 1|Portuguese version]] as well. I already saw your update in [[Template:Moons of dwarf planets]]. So the question seems to be settled. Probably it's not worth to create redirect-pages to moons "with no name". So I leave it there for S/2007 (55637) 1. One more thing  about the mentioned template: I changed two links since there are already redirect pages for [[Actaea (moon)]] and [[Ilmarë (moon)]] for [[120347 Salacia#Satellite]] and [[174567 Varda#Satellite]], respectively. -- Cheers, [[User:Rfassbind|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:forestgreen;"><span style="color:#00E6FF;">R</span>fassbind</span>]] <small>[[User talk:Rfassbind|'''-talk''']]</small>  22:53, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
:::Makes sense. Whenever in the future there is enough information for standalone articles, nothing needs to be changed there. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:44, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
{{outdent|:::}} Dear [[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]], I just revised [[Trojan (astronomy)]]. If you, my highly respected fellow editor, could take a look at the article's lead section, I would feel tremendously honored. ---Cheers, [[User:Rfassbind|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:forestgreen;"><span style="color:#00E6FF;">R</span>fassbind</span>]] <small>[[User talk:Rfassbind|'''-talk''']]</small>  13:39, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Hurray, you're back. You were widely missed.-- Cheers, <em>[[User:Rfassbind|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:forestgreen;"><span style="color:#a2a2a2;">R</span>fassbind</span>]] <small>[[User talk:Rfassbind|&ndash; talk]]</small></em>  11:15, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
:Well thank you! I was on vacation. I've taken a look at it and it looks rather good. I rephrased the part about trojan moons to try to phrase it more clearly, but maybe it could use a bit more tweaking. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:27, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
:: About the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_possible_dwarf_planets&diff=next&oldid=678625722 piped link issue]: I probably should have linked straight to [[WP:NOTBROKEN]] instead of the broader [[MOS:NOPIPE]] ([[WP:NOPIPE]]). Apologies for being insufficiently specific. As I will certainly incorporate that rule in my future c/e's it is worth to sort it out once and for all. <em>[[User:Rfassbind|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:forestgreen;"><span style="color:#a2a2a2;">R</span>fassbind</span>]] <small>[[User talk:Rfassbind|&ndash; talk]]</small></em>  17:14, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

== [[Danish Sign Language]] ==

DSL is the ancestor of the language family -- it's the protolanguage. Tracing its genealogy from the DSL family is like tracing the genealogy of proto-IE from the IE family. That makes no sense. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 18:57, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
:{{ping|Kwamikagami}} So what is it? The sign language of Denmark or the protolanguage? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:16, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
::It's both. All the other languages in the family descend from DSL. I suppose it might be okay, but it's weird. Might benefit from discussion. Will post a thread at [[WP:LANG]]. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 20:37, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
:::Those are two different things. They may be similar and even share a name (which would mainly create confusion), but distinct nonetheless. Save for maybe less difference, it's like calling Italian Latin and then an article on "Latin" is about both proto-Romance and modern Italian. When did those others descend from the sign language in Denmark? How much change occurred for those and for the sign language of Denmark? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 20:45, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

==Pitjantjatjara dialect==
Hi, I understand that the country in which the language/dialect and its general usage is found, might (or might not) have a precedence over the universal tendencies of linguists  et al (sic) formats, however, the article as it stands has at least further 3 MOS issues which I dont have the time to tinker with in the short term, but it would be useful to have a fuller explanation other than the edit summary as to what you are flagging, if that is ok with you - cheers [[User:JarrahTree|JarrahTree]] 10:46, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
:What does it have to do with "other" MoS issues (it's not even a MoS issue, it's just a different format)? My removal is due to: You tagged the article for using MDY dates, but it already uses DMY dates. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 11:06, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

== [[:File:Pluto Earth Moon Comparison.png]] ==

I like the angle of the Pluto image. We don't see much of that side due to the low res, but it's perfect for this image. But, could you add Charon? Earth-Moon ~ Pluto-Charon make an intuitive comparison. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 22:18, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
:There's already [[:File:Pluto Charon Moon Earth Comparison.png]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:47, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
== Reference errors on 28 July ==

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:{{Done|Fixed}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:43, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

== Edit War on s2009s1 ==

I took it to a talk page this morning, you can catch up znd contribute at [[User talk:Favonian]]. We can talk it over over there. I dont think the deletion is right, you can read up on Favionians talk page  <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Wikiwriter82015|Wikiwriter82015]] ([[User talk:Wikiwriter82015|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Wikiwriter82015|contribs]]) 20:22, 30 July 2015 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:You didn't. You should take it to the ''article'''s talk page, [[Talk: S/2009 S 1]], not mention it tangentially at some user's talk page. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 20:25, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
:::At this point, its too much to transfer over but before you mess with the moonlet page again, at least try to talk about it on that page.  <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Wikiwriter82015|Wikiwriter82015]] ([[User talk:Wikiwriter82015|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Wikiwriter82015|contribs]]) 21:10, 30 July 2015 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::::If you start a ''new'', sensible discussion at the appropriate talk page (which is not that user's talk page), then I will respond. There is nothing to "transfer", just start a new discussion by writing a few on-topic sentences. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:04, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

== Peaks and pits ==

On second look, the ref states that most craters have both central pits and central peaks; it seems a contradiction or a mix of both. Anyhow, I still disagree with using the word "related" as it is vague and the source does not go into that. It is OR. Cheers, [[User:BatteryIncluded|BatteryIncluded]] ([[User talk:BatteryIncluded|talk]]) 00:59, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
:"Related"? Yes, the source does talk about both pits and peaks. The source says that central peaks are common in craters and central pits are more common than on the icy moons of the outer Solar System. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:08, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

==Azerbaijani Turks==
Hello. Do you have edited that you trust? I'm living in Iran and the situation here better than you know. I am an Azerbaijani Turks. Please do not change when you do not have enough information.  <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Aydin turk|Aydin turk]] ([[User talk:Aydin turk|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Aydin turk|contribs]]) 21:03, 6 August 2015 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:What the hell are you talking about? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:49, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

== "nareal" ==

Re. this[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nasalization&oldid=675172556&diff=prev], the ExtIPA now calls it "nasal escape". (I'm updating from the 2002 revision.) No idea if this is anything other than a nasalized fricative, as it's designed for speech disorders of English. Only called "nareal fricative" when the diacritic is over a nasal consonant. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 19:37, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
:I don't know about what they did, but I do know is that it's either inconsistent or confusing. That section first makes it quite clear that it is about "true nasal fricatives", i.e. consonants with frication in the nasal cavity (such as {{IPA|[n͋]}}). If then, as in your version, that very section goes on to talk about {{IPA|[v͋]}}, with the same diacritic, as simply "nasal escape" (which sounds an awful lot like simple nasalization), it sounds like there is a logical inconsistency, which may alternatively be, if it's just the interpretation of "nasal escape", just very confusingly worded. In either case, it only serves to confuse readers, which is, of course, undesirable. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:57, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
::Could be bad wording for simultaneous oral and nasal frication, or it could simply be an ordinary nasal fricative an a speech defect. No idea. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 02:04, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

== Helium planets ==

Good points [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Helium_planet&type=revision&diff=675384597&oldid=675330101]. My involvement in the white dwarf scenario described in the ''lede'' was just a rewrite of a somewhat clumsy previous text. I have read up on it a bit after your clarification-tag and the scenario is further explained in the "Evaporated white dwarf" section down below in the article. Should this section be expanded maybe? What do you think? Cheers. 
[[User:RhinoMind|RhinoMind]] ([[User talk:RhinoMind|talk]]) 16:07, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

== Je ne comprends pas. ==

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5hrUGFhsXo

Hello JorisvS, at 1:52, you heard [ʒø nø ˈkõʊ̯̃pɾɒ̃ pæ] or [ʒø nø ˈkõʊ̯̃pɾɒ̃ pɛ̈]? [[Special:Contributions/162.247.125.137|162.247.125.137]] ([[User talk:162.247.125.137|talk]]) 20:08, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
:I'm not Joris, but to me this sounds like a somewhat centralized (=retracted) and somewhat lowered cardinal {{IPA|[ɛ]}}, i.e. {{IPA|[ɛ̞̈]}}. [[User:Peter238|Peter238]] ([[User talk:Peter238|talk]]) 21:09, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

== [[Fricative flap]] ==

Hi, 

You created this, with a link to [[uvular flap]], but never finished there. I'd like to add these to a table at [[fricative]], if any language has them. Thanks. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 19:22, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
:Seconded. I've never seen uvular fricative flaps described in the literature, and I've tried a couple of times (SOWL, my other books). Nothing has come up so far. [[User:Peter238|Peter238]] ([[User talk:Peter238|talk]]) 21:09, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
::I wonder if they're just short (single-contact) trills. Sources often call such things "flaps".
::BTW, the two of you might like [[Kelabit language]]. I just got access to the Blust article, and things are much more interesting than I expected. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 22:42, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

== Proposed revision of MOSNUM re non UK and non US display of units of measure ==

Hi Joris,

On 6 August you supported a proposal to clarify and tighten the rules about units of measurement in non-UK and non-US measures. The wording was this: 

'''In non-scientific articles relating to countries other than the US and the UK''', the primary units are metric or other internationally used units.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AManual_of_Style%2FDates_and_numbers&type=revision&diff=674810512&oldid=674808959]<blockquote>*'''Support''', and look for the best way to say it. Use the international units (first), unless there are good reasons not to. This comes down to non-scientific US-related articles and possibly UK-related article, though as pointed out above, SI units have been in use in the UK for quite some time now, which may actually be enough to warrant a SI-first-accompanied-by-non-metric system of unit presentation there. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS|talk]]) 08:31, 6 August 2015 (UTC)</blockquote>

After further discussion, the following wording was proposed: <blockquote>* In '''all other articles''', the primary units chosen will be [[International System of Units|SI]] units, [[Non-SI units mentioned in the SI|non-SI units officially accepted for use with the SI]], or such other units as are conventional in reliable-source discussions of the article topic (such as [[revolutions per minute]] (rpm) for angular speed, [[hand (unit)|hand]]s for heights of horses, et cetera).
</blockquote> The other articles referred to included non-US and non-UK articles and this wording received both support and opposition. The full wording can be found [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AManual_of_Style%2FDates_and_numbers&type=revision&diff=675135125&oldid=675133079  in this diff.]

As you expressed your opinion a couple of days before this wording was devised it would be helpful if you could indicate whether you supported the later wording. If you could do so [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers#Support_and_Oppose here] it might help in decision-making. 

Best wishes, [[User:Michael Glass|Michael Glass]] ([[User talk:Michael Glass|talk]]) 07:11, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

== Changing the IPA edit tool ==

Hey. Pinged you re. [[MediaWiki_talk:Edittools#Protected_edit_request_on_20_August_2015]]. Seems to be working well, but could use your advice on organizing it for easier access. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 22:29, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
:I currently can't find much of a problem with the organization, but, if possible, the diacritics should be displayed larger by default for readability. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:12, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
== Reference errors on 28 August ==

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:{{Done}}. Unused reference removed. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:39, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
== Reference errors on 30 August ==

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:{{Done|Fixed}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:12, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

== Removal of the category "Near-Earth-sized exoplanets" from several pages. ==

Hello! I would like to remind you that any exoplanet with a radius of greater than 0.8 R<sub>e</sub> and smaller than 1.5 R<sub>e</sub> (or has a mass of under 5 M<sub>e</sub>) should belong to this category, also note that this category allows [[habitable zone]] planets so I see no reason why it can be there. [[User:Davidbuddy9|Davidbuddy9]] ([[User talk:Davidbuddy9|talk]]) 01:14, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
:I removed them when there is also the more specific Category:Near-Earth-sized exoplanets in the habitable zone, which itself is in Category:Near-Earth-sized exoplanets. In such cases, adding both categories is very much redundant. The same goes for including Category:Exoplanets in the habitable zone is they are in the former category already. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:27, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
::If you think about it's it is not redundant. Some readers may want an index full of planets that are near-Earth sized, regardless if it is in the habitable zone and thus makes this not redundant. Exoplanets that fall within a category should be placed in that category. Also this applies to  Category:Exoplanets in the habitable zone, as readers may want an index of exoplanets (regardless of size) in the habitable zone. [[User:Davidbuddy9|Davidbuddy9]] ([[User talk:Davidbuddy9|talk]]) 21:23, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
:::Actually, this is policy: "A page or category should rarely be placed in both a category and a subcategory or parent category", see [[WP:SUBCAT]]. The reason: "[...] readers are already given the information that Paris is a populated place in France by it being a city in France", which squarely applies here. Readers ''do''  have such an index, because the subcategory is also in that category. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:51, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
== Reference errors on 9 September ==

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:{{Done|Fixed}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 08:39, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

== Give it a read ==

Hi JorivS, if you like to and you got the time, please give a read to the lead section of [[Next-Generation Transit Survey]], on which I have worked on recently. Your expertise is very much appreciated. -- Cheers, <em>[[User:Rfassbind|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:forestgreen;"><span style="color:#a2a2a2;">R</span>fassbind</span>]] <small>[[User talk:Rfassbind|&ndash; talk]]</small></em>  13:40, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
:{{Done|Copyedited}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:14, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

== [[(225088) 2007 OR10]] ==

I was thinking of a way to call objects like this one.  You can't call such objects dwarf planets because they are not, and you can't call them possible dwarf planets because that would exclude Eris and Pluto, which ARE dwarf planets.

# Eris
# Pluto
# Makemake
# (225088) 2007 OR10
# Haumea
# Quaoar
# Sedna
# Orcus

These are the most massive objects that aren't planets, moons or the sun. What could I call those? By the way, I edited the 2007 OR10 article because I find it amazing that it is so massive but doesn't have a name. 2007OR10 is an important objects and I really think the lead of that article should be improved '''[[User:Dan6233|Dan6233]]<sup>([[User_Talk:Dan6233|talk]])</sup>''' 18:24, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
:A) Yes, they are. They are also regularly called dwarf planets. No one in their right mind seriously expects to see a non-round object up close if they would be visited by a probe (at best there is some discussion about how sure we can be, but not really much for these largest). It is important to keep in mind that whether or not an object appears on the IAU's very short list of just five has no bearing on whether something is a dwarf planet. Also, it is properly noted that 2007 OR10 is the largest known object without a name. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:30, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

== Celestia image ==

The Celestia image on [[2060 Chiron]] seems to have your approval. Can you point me to any rule, discussion or examples so that I can understand when these kind of images are acceptable on wikipedia? Thx, <em>[[User:Rfassbind|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:forestgreen;"><span style="color:#a2a2a2;">R</span>fassbind</span>]] <small>[[User talk:Rfassbind|&ndash; talk]]</small></em>  22:37, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
:Not so much. It was this or an edit war. Remove it if you like. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:09, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
:: I see, it's sometimes hard to find consensus;) Rephrasing my question: Is there any case at all where you would approve such images? And, besides the mentioned copy-right issues, what's your rationale for rejecting (some/all) of them? -- Thx, <em>[[User:Rfassbind|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:forestgreen;"><span style="color:#a2a2a2;">R</span>fassbind</span>]] <small>[[User talk:Rfassbind|&ndash; talk]]</small></em>  13:50, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
:::Generally not. Artist's impressions tend to convey at least some things that we don't know to be. In case of Chiron's image, it's whether it's round and surface features. I would say only when we need an image to convey something properly and no image that can do that is available (or can be made). --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 14:45, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

== [[Venetian language|Venetian]]/Venetic ==

I still think this description needs to be better worded. We don't know that Venetic was Italic and in any case, if it were, it would have belonged to one of the extinct pre-Latin groupings. True then that it is not closely related but then an Indo-European link doesn't make ''anything'' close. Nobody needed an expert to realise that German and Dutch were related languages, but they did need guidance to realise that these languages are related to Greek and Urdu. Even today for people knowledgeable in languages but never to have heard of Indo-European (or have much of a concept of proto-languages), they will find it hard to believe that German and Urdu are commonly derived, so there really is no need to ever specify that German and Urdu are not ''closely'' related. The only two differences with regards Venetic/Venetian is same location and language names clearly have same topographical root. If the northern Greeks decided that their dialect were different enough from standard Greek to warrant a separate name, we might have two (not closely related) languages spoken today side by side called ''Macedonian''. This is why I think the best solution for the Venetian language article is to say something like, ''Venetian should not be confused with Venetic...'', and then the rest of it. Do you agree on principle? --[[User:Oranges Juicy|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:purple; font-variant:small-caps;">'''OJ'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Oranges Juicy|<font face="Trebuchet MS" size="1">TALK</font>]]) 06:20, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
:Maybe "are only very distantly related"? That's more explicit about the distance of the relationship. And maybe try to word Indo-European into it? However we word it, "not" related is just not true. If you want to change the hatnote, I don't mind. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:20, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
::Cheers. It is very difficult. On the one hand you, the IP editor and I clearly know what the situation is and there is no dispute (I'm glad to say) so we could word it one such way, but on the other hand, how on earth do we explain the issue without delving into the mechanics of proto-languages and all else that might ''put off'' a general reader. I feel a bit stuck - IE is still an obscure topic, and Italic (which brings Venetic one step closer to Romance) is not verified academically. Sorry to bend your ear on this!! Any ideas about simplicity? --[[User:Oranges Juicy|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:yellow; font-variant:small-caps;">'''OJ'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Oranges Juicy|<font face="Trebuchet MS" size="1">TALK</font>]]) 10:18, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
:::We could say "are only very distantly related" and add a note (using either <nowiki><ref group=note>...</ref> or {{refn|group=note|...}}</nowiki>) about both being Indo-European and include a mention of English, Russian, and Hindustani also being about as distantly related to each other and to Venetian and Venetic. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 10:37, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
::::OK then, since you are all right with the longer explanations, how about this?[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Venetian_language&diff=682991077&oldid=682826160], any good? --[[User:Oranges Juicy|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:brown; font-variant:small-caps;">'''OJ'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Oranges Juicy|<font face="Trebuchet MS" size="1">TALK</font>]]) 11:39, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
:::::That was mostly good. I've improved it a bit further. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:24, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

{{outdent}}Thanks. I have no further changes to make to suggest. There is only one thing, as you know the Italian language system is highly complicated. [[Languages of Italy]] include Slovene and German and a host of others. ''Dialects of Italian'' are covered in [[Regional Italian]]. Venetian despite being Romance falls in the first category, and even in the Veneto and among speakers of Venetian in general, there is their regional Italian and the distinct Venetian language. If you look at the question I posted on [[Talk:Venetian language]] some days back you'll find that I myself am unable to make sense of the situation. I mean if we put aside the whole dialect vs language issue, this is what we (may) have in Venice: imagine a tourist who speaks Italian heading into Venice, naturally he will try out his standard Italian. No doubt the Venetian will reply in standard Italian but clearly on his Venetian accent; the Venetian will then turn to a local acquaintance and the tourist may then struggle to understand what he is hearing because the Venetian is using the regional Italian dialect which contains different words. Then as that Venetian addresses a third person he may do this in the Venetian language which is purported to be closer related to French and Spanish. I have heard of diglossia but how on earth does one come to have THREE different ways of speaking bearing in mind all three registers are commonly derived. I've been researching for days and can find nothing. --[[User:Oranges Juicy|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:orange; font-variant:small-caps;">'''OJ'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Oranges Juicy|<font face="Trebuchet MS" size="1">TALK</font>]]) 06:38, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
:The basics are less complicated than they seem. There is Standard Italian on one hand and Venetian on the other with a continuum of mixtures between them. Where on this continuum what a speaker says lies is dependent on many situational factors, including formality and the other speaker's ability and more. Most of us do change how we talk depending on whom we talk to, but the differences are typically much much smaller than in your example. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 07:29, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

::{{outdent}}My guess then - and this is purely a guess - is that with the vast relocations of people that have happened in Italy in the century and a half Venice has been within an Italian state, a natural ''connected'' accent and dialect stemming directly from standard Italian emerged while persons to have moved to Venice opted not to learn Venetian - the languages of northern Italy have also had the issue of suppression down the decades which hasn't helped, only in recent years is this seeing improvement. For Venetian-speaking descendants, I gather they will be bilingual (Venetian + Italian) and the Italian they speak may either be standard, or regional, or a mixture of the two, but very unlikely all three, Venetian, regional plus standard.
::In fact the centuries that Venice was a republic and major power allowed the Venetian tongue to flourish independently. This will certainly be one reason it has survived. In areas such as Friuli (chiefly Trieste) and Istria (Slovenia and Croatia), a great many Italians descend from migrants encouraged to move while Italy controlled the region, so Venetian is not to be expected from them although some Venetian speakers remain in SLO/HR. But the lacuna is this, I still cannot work out why Venetian is switched off from the continuum that surrounds it - the registers to surround Venetian are Romansch while Venetian has stronger links to Occitan of southern France (if my sources are correct). That defies logic. --[[User:Oranges Juicy|<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; color:pink; font-variant:small-caps;">'''OJ'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Oranges Juicy|<font face="Trebuchet MS" size="1">TALK</font>]])
:::Yes, it could be something like that. Maybe speakers of proto-Venetian migrated from the west, replacing the early Gallo-Italic of the region. The article also says it lacks typical traits from further west, so maybe the typical Gallo-Italic features just did not happen to spread all the way east into the Venetian-language area. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 13:27, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

::::Ah that is a GREAT answer, and very likely the correct one. So thanks. Tell me whether you would go along with this proposal:
::::What you stated above about possible eastward migration was an informed opinion. No source confirms it, so it would be speculation at best, and breach of [[WP:SYNTH]] or [[WP:OR]] at worst. At the same time, no source even ''explores'' the phenomenon, and yet it is a baffling and intelligent question - ''why is language x closer to languages y and z when it is surrounded by a, b and c whilst a, b and c are commonly derived and also linked to y and z via a continuum?''. To that end we could add this possible description per [[Wikipedia:IAR]]. I'll gladly try that. Would you support it? --[[User:Oranges Juicy|OJ]] ([[User talk:Oranges Juicy|talk]]) 17:14, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
:::::No, it's just our personal ''speculation'' about what could be behind this, with zero actual evidence for this (and against, although the long recorded history of the Republic of Venice suggests to me that the migration idea is not the case). "Ignore all rules" does not mean a carte blanche to ignore [[WP:OR]] (which this very much is). What you could do, though, if it is worth the effort to you, is make an analysis of the linguistic situation of the Gallo-Italic features and where they stop (they won't all stop at exactly the same place, AFAIK there is still a dialect continuum) and the migration history of the broader area; maybe also an analysis historical sound and grammar changes, which might point to Venetian rather having innovated some non-Gallo-Italic features on an otherwise simply Gallo-Italic language, instead of not having acquired the typical Gallo-Italic innovations; and then try to publish this in a reliable place, preferably using a peer-review system, so that experts take a look at it, because this increases reliability a lot. At that point, inclusion won't be a problem, and what gets included will be far more reliable. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:55, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

:I remember reading that in the high medieval period or so, Venetian was much more like Friulian, presumably retaining final ''-s'' in the 2nd person, thus basically a Western Romance language. Even the modern Gallo-Italic languages, however, must be classified as Italo-Romance, not Western Romance, based on the fact that they reflect the early and characteristic sound change ''-s'' > ''-j'' of Italo-Romance (which did not happen elsewhere). Compare [[Diachronics of plural inflection in the Gallo-Italian languages]]. (From toponomastic evidence, the Romansh/Ladin/Friulian-type palatalisation of velar stops before /a/ apparently once stretched considerably further to the south, as far as the Po, so perhaps in the medieval period at some point Western Romance varieties were indeed spoken in the region, but later replaced by Italo-Romance ones, which became the modern Gallo-Italic varieties.) So, modern Venetian (which is even less Western-Romance-like than Gallo-Italic) is certainly not a Western Romance language, but an Italo-Romance one (which notion, by the way, is not to be confused with "Italian dialect" – for example, Sicilian is certainly not an "Italian dialect", but the regional variety of Standard Italian in Sicily, basically Sicilian-accented Standard Italian, could be called one; the distinction is much like Swiss German vs. Swiss Standard German or Scots vs. Scottish English). --[[User:Florian Blaschke|Florian Blaschke]] ([[User talk:Florian Blaschke|talk]]) 00:24, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

== Notice ==
[[File:Ambox notice.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Cyber Bullying|Cyber Bullying]].  <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you. [[User:NeilN|<b style="color:navy">Neil<span style="color:red">N</span></b>]] <sup>[[User talk:NeilN|<i style="color:blue">talk to me</i>]]</sup> 18:34, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

==Romanian==
Hi JorisvS, You undid my changes on a 6 articles related to Romanian ''graiuri/subdialecte''. I had substituted in those articles the word "dialect" for "subdialect" and you changed it back arguing that the "Romanian terms are irrelevant, this is the English Wikipedia, not the Romanian". 
(btw, I am fluent in both languages, Romanian and English)

I would like to draw your attention to the fact that the word "subdialect" is an English word as well meaning "a subordinate division of a dialect", you can find it in the Oxford dictionary and in the Wiktionary, too; yes, the Romanian word happens to be the same in this case as the English one (''subdialect''). 

The differences among the various Romanian ''graiuri'' do not justify their classification as dialects because their variations are not significant enough for this differentiation; the Romanian ''graiuri'' can be accurately translated into English with the term ''subdialects''. It was interesting to notice the effort to show the correspondence between the English and Romanian terms in those articles (e.g., ''The Moldavian dialect (subdialectul / graiul moldovean / moldovenesc)'') but it was curious to see that the actual English word for the Romanian ''grai/subdialect'' was not used. 

In fact, the English articles about the Romanian ''graiuri'' and the titles of these articles are in their current form misleading and create ambiguity, because they do not refer to dialects, but to subdialects, which is an important difference; I noticed in the editing of those articles some past attempts to include the English word ''subdialect'', why exactly was this abandoned? In case a solid argumentation is not provided, the articles should be changed accordingly. Thanks! 

PS: there is another discussion about the actual four dialects of Romanian (Daco-Romanian, Istro-Romanian, Megleno-Romanian, Aromanian); I am aware that some people consider them languages and not dialects, but maybe we address this topic later; meanwhile, the article "Limba română" on the Romanian Wikipedia says that they are dialects and not languages and gives a good reference mentioning that most linguists consider them dialects; I happen to side with this majority, too. --[[User:MFM21|MFM21]] ([[User talk:MFM21|talk]]) 13:14, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
:First of all, please add a header when you start a new thread and do not add "PS"s. 
:"Subdialect" means exactly what you say it means, a subdivision of a dialect. However, those are four languages, not four dialects of Romanian, with rather low mutual intelligibility. Yes, the differences between the ''dialects'' of (Daco-)Romanian are slight, but they are still primary divisions of a language (i.e. dialects), not divisions of a dialect (i.e. subdialects). Hence, these ''do'' refer to dialects, not subdialects, by definition of the terms.
:Sure there are sources that do call DR, IR, MR, and AR dialects of a single "Romanian" language, but these have a distinct Romania-centered POV, violating [[WP:NPOV]], and, unfortunately, so does the Romanian Wikipedia. Just because these sources exist is no reason to follow suit, nor is the Romanian Wikipedia. Just because it is in one of those four languages does not mean they know better. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:20, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

== Pigiarniq ==

The word is spelt ''Pigiarniq'' and not ''Pinuarniq''. Perhaps the pronunciation guide is wrong. I've restored the spelling used by the Government of Nunavut and the designer, Tiro Typeworks, and included references. Yesterday a check of [https://www.google.ca/search?q=Pinuarniq&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=daAOVuyBLMalgwTru62QAw Google] found no entries for Pinuarniq but today there are two. One Wikipedia and a mirror. [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]], [[User talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Uqaqtuq (talk)]], [[Special:Contributions/CambridgeBayWeather|Sunasuttuq]] 15:24, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
:I only reverted to draw your attention to the clear mismatch between the stated orthographic form and the stated pronunciation, hoping you'd take a closer look and fix this, because you're clearly more into it. I see you didn't, so now I added a dubious tag instead. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:29, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

::I didn't fix it because I know nothing about IPA. Would it have not been a better idea to tell me there was a problem rather than use a fake word? [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]], [[User talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Uqaqtuq (talk)]], [[Special:Contributions/CambridgeBayWeather|Sunasuttuq]] 22:17, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
:::And I know almost nothing about [[Inuktitut]]. Maybe it would've been better to just tag it in the first place. Anyway, let's now focus on fixing it. The orthography suggests something like /pigiaʁniq/. The article says that "/ʁ/ is assimilated to [ɴ] before nasals", which suggests [pigiaɴniq] (or would this actually become a single sound?). And where is the stress? --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 09:38, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

== concerns ==

*The mention of Juno's mission in the [[Jupiter]] lead has gotten too short. It is an important mission. 
*I think you might as well remove the word "spacecraft" from this sentence too: <code>The most recent '''probe''' to visit Jupiter was in late February 2007 when the New Horizons '''spacecraft'''</code>
I personally don't think it is necessary to simplify the content like that. 
*Also, sorry but "Jupiter system" sounds really really bad. It might be simpler for the average reader to understand, but it is just wrong. Thanks [[User:Huritisho|Huritisho]] ([[User talk:Huritisho|talk]]) 15:39, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
------------
I don't intend to modify that article again. I'm just letting you know you probably should change to Jovian system and make the sentences longer for a better readability. The latter is just my opinion though [[User:Huritisho|Huritisho]] ([[User talk:Huritisho|talk]]) 15:50, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
:It's not wrong. It's a pretty normal alternative construction. It's also not very important which we use. As for the rest, length per se is irrelevant. It should simply summarize the main points. Because ''Juno'' has not even arrived yet, it does not merit more than one sentence in the lead: basically just that it is on its way. Yes, "spacecraft" can also be removed there without any loss (it should actually be rephrased further because its construction is a bit awkward; "in late February 2007" isn't a probe). 
:I don't see how making longer sentences is supposed to improve readability here. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:53, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
::Because longer sentences make it look less like we're just dumping information [[User:Huritisho|Huritisho]] ([[User talk:Huritisho|talk]]) 00:22, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
:::Longer sentences would lump distinct pieces of information and make it look like they would somehow belong together more than just in the same paragraph. It doesn't look like 'dumped information' as written now. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 00:29, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

== [[Juno (spacecraft)]] ==

If you have the time and patience, could you help expand the Earth flyby section? It is being difficult to turn the information of the flyby into text. By the way, archive the older discussions in your talk page. God, it is too darn long. Thanks [[User:Huritisho|Huritisho]] ([[User talk:Huritisho|talk]]) 00:18, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
=== (→‎top: then format that correctly)===
Ok sorry. No need to be rude. ''[[User talk:Huritisho|Huritisho]]'' 16:23, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
:The point of which was to tell you that you should take a little more care when changing things like that (I'm assuming you know enough to see that something like "July 4 2011" at least looks weird and so can notice it if you look at it), lest you only create more work for others (or yourself). As for 'rude', the above "By the way, archive the older discussions in your talk page. God, it is too darn long." could be said more nicely, too. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 17:34, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
::My other edits to that article by far compensate a minor mistake of a missing comma. And if you don't want to have some more work to do, perhaps you shouldn't be editing wikipedia. Being a wikipedia editor IS about having work. ''[[User talk:Huritisho|Huritisho]]'' 18:13, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
:::Yes, they do. But I've seen you do it elsewhere[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jupiter&diff=prev&oldid=684263561], so either you honestly didn't know (then simply admit that), or you're quickly typing this (where the 'little more care' would come in). You're [[WP:AGF|assuming rather bad faith]] with the second part of your remark. I'll note that there is a practically unlimited amount of work, and that's fine and will never change, but it's not about unnecessarily ''creating'' new work for others by not taking enough care. Accidental mistakes or not knowing, on the other hand, are perfectly fine! --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:54, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

== Jupiter Trojans ==

Hello, I have a question. I noticed in the [[Lucy (spacecraft)]] article that the Trojans orbit along the planet's path either ahead of or behind Jupiter. But in the enclosed image, they are named Greeks and Trojans, respectively.  I am hoping you could clarify this for me. Thank you. [[User:BatteryIncluded|BatteryIncluded]] ([[User talk:BatteryIncluded|talk]]) 22:08, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
:The Jupiter trojans (really properly lowercase) are all trojans of Jupiter, in both L4 and L5. The Greeks are the Jupiter trojans ahead of Jupiter (L4) and the Trojans are the Jupiter trojans behind Jupiter (L5). Notice the difference in meaning between the lowercase and uppercase words. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 22:14, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
::Thank you! Cheers, [[User:BatteryIncluded|BatteryIncluded]] ([[User talk:BatteryIncluded|talk]]) 22:33,  5 October 2015 (UTC)

== Editing "[[Life on Venus]]" ==

I recently fixed a grammatical issue on this page, and I see that you have reverted my edit and replaced it with your own fix. While your correction is still clearly better than what was there before, I suggest that the word "Venus" still be replaced with "its" because "Venus" was already used just a few words back; while grammatically acceptable of course, I think it reads better that way. Thoughts? --[[User:Bomb319|Bomb319]] ([[User talk:Bomb319|talk]]) 17:34, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
:Seeing your change, the "it" appeared ambiguous to me, but it kind of isn't. Anyway, the logic behind the sentence means that a significant rewording was in order, which I've gone ahead and done. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:23, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

== I'd like your opinion ==

on [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Astronomy#Complaint:_too_many_images_in_the_articles|this]]. ''[[User talk:Huritisho|Huritisho]]'' 17:42, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
:{{Done}}. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 18:08, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

== Your edit at [[Exoplanet]] ==

Sorry about that.  {{u|ThE~fUtUrE~2014}} added the required "s", and I misread your change as removing it, rather than just moving it outside the brackets.  [[User:Rwessel|Rwessel]] ([[User talk:Rwessel|talk]]) 14:38, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
:Yes, I could see that from your edit summary. It's no problem, it can happen. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 15:11, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

== Moving GJ 504b to Gliese 504 b ==

Hi JorisvS! I did a cut in past move as I was not able to move GJ 504b to Gliese 504 b. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Astronomy/Archive_20#GJ.2C_Gl.2C_or_Gliese_.28Star_Catalog.29 Here] was decided that we should change GJ's to Gliese so that it would be consistant in catagories. When I try to perform a normal move it says the page already exists that's why I did a cut and past move.
:Copy-paste moves are the worst possible thing you could do, because they do not preserve the edit history. If you can't move the page (like in this case), you should request a technical move, which can be done at [[WP:RMT]]. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:12, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
::I understand I have now requested a move it can be found [[Talk:GJ_504b#Requested_move_18_October_2015|Here]]. [[User:Davidbuddy9|Davidbuddy9]] ([[User talk:Davidbuddy9|talk]]) 19:20, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
:::It's even easier to simply follow the link I provided and request it there. Usually, the page is moved within a few hours. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 19:26, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
::::So should I swap out the other tag that I used and place the other one? [[User:Davidbuddy9|Davidbuddy9]] ([[User talk:Davidbuddy9|talk]]) 19:27, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
:::::As you can see, the page has quickly been moved after you placed a request at WP:RMT. The request at the talk page is now a request to move it to the location where it is already located and hence doesn't make any sense anymore. --[[User:JorisvS|JorisvS]] ([[User talk:JorisvS#top|talk]]) 00:19, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

== request ==

I'd like you to keep an eye on the edits of [[Kerberos (moon)]]. The edits by kwai may be wrong and/or disruptive. See my message I left in his talk page. Cheers, ''[[User talk:Huritisho|Huritisho]]'' 05:41, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

[[Moons of Pluto]] too. His edits are disruptive and I don't wanna get into a discussion ''[[User talk:Huritisho|Huritisho]]'' 05:50, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

:This message was sent to BatteryIncluded and I decided to let you know the issue too. Also, {{ping|Huntster}}, kwai is once again adding question marks in infobox fields.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kerberos_(moon)&curid=32475056&diff=687083923&oldid=687081363] ''[[User talk:Huritisho|Huritisho]]'' 06:25, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

== [[WP:ACE2015|ArbCom elections are now open!]] ==

{{Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015/MassMessage}} [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 13:40, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
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== Enceladus ==

I have nominated [[Enceladus]] for a [[Wikipedia:Featured article review/Enceladus/archive1|featured article review here]]. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets [[Wikipedia:What is a featured article?|featured article criteria]]. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are [[Wikipedia:Featured article review|here]]. [[User:DrKay|DrKay]] ([[User talk:DrKay|talk]]) 16:28, 6 December 2015 (UTC)