Talk:Milk

Additions to table

Suggest adding the following to the table (all from the same existing source at dairyinfo.gc.ca):

Russia, 36.5, 5.8, 2.4 Egypt, 24.3, -, 0.8 Turkey, 16.2, 6.8, 0.6

This would at least cover all the continents (ie Africa and Middle East are currently missing, and Russia is a major world culture). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.145.35.176 (talk) 21:43, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Agree, it's quite incomplete — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.226.49.230 (talk) 11:35, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Resource and reference list from Kurzgesagt

The video Milk (youtube), by Kurzgesagt, comes with a comprehensive list of references for each of the details mentioned: https://sites.google.com/view/sourcesmilk/ -- I'm adding it here in case useful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Quiddity (talk • contribs) 05:24, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

The 'Notes' tab should be removed

In my opinion, the 'Notes' tab should be removed if no notes can be added to it as in my opinion it is pointless having an empty tab within the article. Xboxsponge15 (talk) 12:43, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

One can add notes, you have to activate your user/talk page first to do it, see link... WP:AUTOCONFIRM... RomanGrandpa (talk) 16:07, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Milk definition

I think this section should be headed ”Dairy Milk” as it is headed “Milk” yet the definition of milk includes plant milk and Dairy Milk. 86.2.197.150 (talk) 13:04, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

This article is for mammal milk only, plant milk really isn't milk at all, it plants crushed into a powder, and then water and a little bit of vegetable fat added. 17:32, 17 December 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by RomanGrandpa (talk • contribs)

Plant milk advocacy in this article

@Psychologist Guy: Both sentences are nonsequitur within the article. The first is placed in the lead and not in the body — a placement of importance that is supposed to summarize the article — and is a cherry-picked concept from a source that doesn't really support the concept being presented here in Wikipedia (see WP:SYNTH). The second is a false equivalency illogic. It also contradicts Water footprint#Water footprint of products (Agricultural Sector) and the chart at Plant milk, especially if you realize that almond milk (not a legume) is one of the predominant plant-based beverages. Only soy is considered a legume, and it is just one of the plant "milks". Attempting to list a single sentence comparison between dairy and soy in order to promote "milk is bad", is advocacy. These concepts don't really belong in the Milk article, but would be better used in Milk substitute or Plant milk where the concepts are perhaps relevant. If you would flesh out a paragraph of the concepts, in the body, then perhaps they would be relevant in Milk. But as single sentences, non sequitur, they are appear as advocacy. Platonk (talk) 20:56, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

I agree with Platonk, criticism of a product often comes down to opinion and can be highly subjective, so I'm going to go ahead and remove the criticism and controversy section on this page. The section is underdeveloped and the current single article placed in the category is rather weak and questionable.RomanGrandpa (talk) 22:01, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Overproduction

Since "overproduction" and "underproduction" ebbs and flow with the times, I'm removing this section, currently, production has declined and dairy prices are converging up, so this section no longer applies (see link) https://www.wfla.com/news/national/big-cheese-milk-production-slows-causing-dairy-prices-to-rise-in-2022/ RomanGrandpa (talk) 22:03, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Consensus Needed

An editor, Fragrant Peony, restored a throw away line in the lede about plant milk. First off, the article is not about plant milk, that is clearly stated at the top of the page. Also, there is no relevance to the statement. It's like me going on the broccoli wiki page and placing a statement in the lede like -- more people are consuming spinach now......it just doesn't belong. RomanGrandpa (talk) 22:16, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

In addition, Fragrant Peony restored the "Criticism and Crontroversy" section although I had reached a consensus with another editor, Platonk, that the section should be removed.RomanGrandpa (talk) 22:25, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

The inclusion of this content has been challenged by two separate editors which puts the onus on the including editors to gain consensus for its inclusion. See WP:ONUS: While information must be verifiable for inclusion in an article, not all verifiable information must be included. Consensus may determine that certain information does not improve an article. Such information should be omitted or presented instead in a different article. The onus to achieve consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content. In my opinion, that content doesn't improve the article nor educate the reader. Platonk (talk) 00:01, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

The removed (and reinserted) material is found in related but-more-appropriate articles such as Plant milk, Milk substitute, Plant-based diet, Veganism, Vegan nutrition, Cowspiracy, and a whole slew of other articles on the subject, or bits of anti-dairy content wedged into other articles.

If it is deemed important to include plant-based beverage comparisons to milk in the Milk article, then maybe have a section appropriately titled for such comparisons or about "Animal rights opposition to milk production" or something like that, or break out into a separate article covering the topic. But not labelled "Criticism and controversy", which is loaded language (see WP:CRITS) and too broad of a concept, especially considering most of the world has no problem with milk production and consumption.

But then one should also include that the European Union has outlawed using the word "milk" to label a plant-based beverage, and that the US FDA is currently evaluating its use in labelling (having already outlawed using "yogurt" on plant-based yogurt-analogs, and its current definition of milk is that it is from a cow's mammary glands).

See Plant milk#Labeling and terminology and Yogurt#Plant-based products for some of the few tiny bits in Wikipedia on the subject about why/where plant-based products cannot be called "milk". I believe there are regulations in Canada as well.

For further information on the extant fight going on in the USA (which has already been settled in the European Union) on the subject of labelling plant-based white opaque liquids as "milk" (a lacteal product), try some of these sources.

• This is the crux of the milk industry’s argument for stricter labeling rules; consumers aren’t necessarily confused about where plant milk comes from, but the term “milk” evokes a nutritional profile that these milk alternatives don’t meet. and People still aren’t clear what all these beverages contain and what they mean for health. Source:“Fake milk”: why the dairy industry is boiling over plant-based milks
• A survey conducted by market research firm Ipsos in 2018 for the milk producers group found consumers mistakenly believed dairy milk and plant-based milk alternatives have the same nutritional content. Asked about protein, 77% of respondents thought plant-based milk had the same or more protein than dairy milk. It doesn't. Source:Stop Milking It, Dairy Farmers Tell Plant-Based Competitors
• Also of interest: How well do plant based alternatives fare nutritionally compared to cow’s milk?

Platonk (talk) 00:58, 7 February 2022 (UTC)