Talk:Aldol reaction

Mistake in translation (Aldol reaction vs. reactions)

It's seems like there might been a slight mistake in translation within the formation of this article, for this reason I propose a split.

Within English, Aldol reaction (singular) refers largely to Aldol addition specifically. While in other languages it seems to be referring to the general set of reactions. For this reason I propose a split to prevent confusion among the average Wikipedia reader.

One for addition that stays this page and is renamed to Aldol addition, because of it's preexisting links to other pages as addition (and because most, but not all, of the page is referring to aldol addition).

And a new one called Aldol reactions. With some of the sections here being moved to it where necessary. LoomCreek (talk) 23:48, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

@LoomCreek This has in the past been a WP:FEATURED article. As such, I think there needs to be a broad consensus for the split you are proposing, since there is clearly potential for confusion given that (if your split were fully accepted) there would be articles at Aldol reaction, Aldol reactions and Aldol condensation, with considerable overlap, for example of mechanism. I think that you need to consider whether your proposal fits with the guidance at WP:SPLIT and allow other interested editors to comment. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:45, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull Okay, I understand that. I will add that there is significant precedent from other language wikipedia's in terms of separate articles. My major issue is that leads to conflicting edits on the page between English speakers and those who are fluent in English but its not their first language. LoomCreek (talk) 14:48, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

@LoomCreek I can see the potential conflicts but I think that we need to proceed carefully and only after consensus so that we are clear what content belongs in each article. Your current request at Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests to rename this article Aldol addition may be a valid way forward but please hold off doing that until others have had time to comment. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:59, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull I will be more cautious in the future. It was just a fairly glaring error in my opinion. And I didn't really expect for this move to have any controversial aspects to it. I'll also adds it's a former GA, not current, while it previously met the standards it no longer does, so it's not necessarily merited any extra protection. I also have done the work to distinguish the content that belongs in each article. LoomCreek (talk) 15:02, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Everything on this page (with exception for: the stereochemistry section to provide context, a brief comment in the mechanism section to explain how to avoid condensation) is an aldol addition reaction. LoomCreek (talk) 15:32, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull

Personally I think Aldol reactions (which I made before I realized the contested nature, if discussion disagrees Ill manually revert it.) should exist but only as a overview page on basics but nudges the reader to go to either Aldol addition (which has been a redirect to this page, way before this) or Aldol Condensation for more info.

That way confusion is prevented and we don't cause unnecessary overlap or maintenance.

I just don't see a way to avoid confusion otherwise. Since 'the aldol reaction' refers to the creation of an Aldol i.e the aldol addition reaction.

But then there also needs to be way to refer to the set of reactions, because they're interrelated.

For example if you attempt an Aldol addition but use significant heat you'll end up with aldol condensation product (or an impure mixture of the two depending on how sterically hindered your catalyst is).

Id prefer to not create a new page but given that both Aldol addition and Aldol condensation are deserving of their own pages, necessary given the wide breath of content for each and because of established, albeit clumsy, terminology thats aged in. I think these distinct pages are necessary. LoomCreek (talk) 07:07, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 21 April 2023

Aldol reaction → Aldol addition – Aldol reaction (singular) refers to Aldol additions in English. While in other languages its referring to the general set of reactions. So for chemists who are fluent in English but it's not their first language (which is fairly common within Wikipedia chemistry) its caused some editing mistakes. The majority of the page is about aldol addition, but there were some sections about the overall pair of reaction which have since been moved to Aldol reactions. With only two mentions of aldol condensations kept where it explained how certain reaction conditions are necessary for Aldol additions (to avoid condensation).

See above for more information Talk:Aldol reaction#Mistake in translation (Aldol reaction vs. reactions) LoomCreek (talk) 15:38, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Please note that there is now also an article called Aldol reactions. Mccapra (talk) 01:55, 22 April 2023 (UTC)