Talk:Te Whatu Ora

Requested move 1 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Te Whatu Ora. (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 09:37, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

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Health New Zealand → Te Whatu Ora Health New Zealand – per its name, logotype and common usage. When this article was created, the nationwide replacement of District Health Boards (DHBs) was referred to as Health New Zealand or Health NZ, as the organisation had no official name. (See Dept. Of Prime Minister and Cabinet explanation). At launch, the agency was given the name Te Whatu Ora Health New Zealand. The organisation refers to itself as Te Whatu Ora Health New Zealand, it is referred to as Te Whatu Ora Health New Zealand on the Ministry of Health's website, and news organisations refer to it in recent stories as Te Whatu Ora Health New Zealand (and sometimes simply "Te Whatu Ora"); for example in the ODT, Stuff National, RNZ, the NZ Herald's Rotorua Daily Post and Bay of Plenty Times and soon after launch by TVNZ Quilt Phase (talk) 05:40, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

• Even official sources seem to be uncertain whether the name is Te Whatu Ora Health New Zealand, [[Te Whatu Ora | Health New Zealand]], Te Whatu Ora-Health New Zealand or Te Whatu Ora (Health New Zealand). There are even some apparently recent official things in google calling it interim Health New Zealand (that may be due to issues with timestamps, not sure). Probably best to wait until things settle down and become clearer. There's no reason why all those shouldn't be redirects, of course. Stuartyeates (talk) 09:01, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

  I'd also add simply Te Whatu Ora to that list - but formatting aside, that probably seems like more of an argument to have it at the full name as an interim thing until things settle down. Turnagra (talk) 09:07, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

• Te Papa is a good example of a national-level institution which is almost never called by it's official name, and which has a butt-load of redirects. Stuartyeates (talk) 09:24, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

“interim Health New Zealand” refers to the organisation before it became officially established as a result of Pae Ora, so those references will be historic, referring to status quo prior to 1 July 2022. Quilt Phase (talk) 20:50, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

• Support I'd have probably just moved this, along with the Māori Health Authority, as the moves should be fairly uncontroversial. As you've pointed out, they've very rarely (if ever) been referred to by just "Health New Zealand" since being established, in a similar manner to Whaikaha being referred to as the Ministry for Disabled People before it was established. Turnagra (talk) 05:32, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose, but tentative support for Te Whatu Ora. These are two distinct names, used for a bilingual country, but many seem to be treating “Te Whatu Ora” as the name. (See the Daily Post, for example, who don’t even mention Health New Zealand.) There seems to be some use of “Health New Zealand” as a subtitle or explanation of what Te Whatu Ora is, rather than as a name per se. I would similarly oppose the bilingual name for the Māori Health Authority, and would probably support a move to Te Aka Whai Ora, although weirdly a lot of commentary seems to favour “Māori Health Authority” in discussing it, but still referring to the entity as “Te Aka Whai Ora” as though that’s its name. (This is certainly the case for the ASMS: The establishment of Te Aka Whai Ora, the Māori Health Authority…; and they mostly use Te Aka Whai Ora as the name, only really talking about “a” Māori Health Authority elsewhere in their opinion. I get the sense people use Te Papa and “Museum of New Zealand” similarly, but that’s elsewise entirely…) — HTGS (talk) 07:37, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

  Also it is always a bit hard to say about actual usage of dual names in text, and what the speaker/writer intends by them, but I really don’t think the logotype we have (File:Health New Zealand logo.svg) supports one whole name, rather than two distinct names. — HTGS (talk) 07:45, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

• I would also Support a move to Te Whatu Ora Quilt Phase (talk) 05:22, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Te Whatu Ora. Moving to Te Whatu Ora reduces article recognizability considerably. The major health provider for New Zealand should be using the English name. --Spekkios (talk) 07:44, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
• Support as proposed, move is to the name used by the organisation and the name most easily recognised by both New Zealanders and international readers.-gadfium 08:21, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
• I can tell you as an international reader that I recognize the English name much more easily than the Maori, even if you put the English name at the end. --Killuminator (talk) 09:16, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move to Health New Zealand

Under the new government, public service departments are required “have their primary name in English, except for those specifically related to Māori”. This includes Health New Zealand. 2407:7000:A281:AB00:B888:4925:87A2:6BE2 (talk) 08:43, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

We don't follow the direction of the government, we follow what common usage of the name is. And that is still clearly Te Whatu Ora. Turnagra (talk) 09:01, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

We need to wait until this department actually changes its name.PatricKiwi (talk) 12:03, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Within the next 90 days, we should see the primary name change to Health New Zealand. Whether the PIJF will still hold the NZ media to refer to the Māori name, and therefore break WP:NAMECHANGES is unknown to me at this point, but knowing that the majority of the New Zealand media lean left, they will most likely still call it Te Whatu Ora. It will be a contentious move. Kiwiz1338 (talk) 09:00, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

I have no idea how the PIJF would be related in any way to how the media refer to Te Whatu Ora. Could you please elaborate your view? Turnagra (talk) 09:04, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Turnagra is correct, although I'm surprised to hear them expressing support for using the WP:COMMONNAME over the WP:OFFICIALNAME; if media continues to call this Te Whatu Ora then we need to do the same. BilledMammal (talk) 09:05, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

If the name Health New Zealand is suddenly used on topo maps and appears in the NZGB gazetteer then let's talk. Turnagra (talk) 09:07, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

"Use the common name, unless the official name is used in these specific official sources"? That's a bizarre stance, and quite a double standard. BilledMammal (talk) 09:11, 3 December 2023 (UTC)