User talk:Clovermoss

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Re: DS9

I'm happy to see a younger generation enjoying this show. It's unfortunate that CBS refuses to pay for HD remastering, given that the process is labor intensive and expensive. There's been some interesting rumors about AI being used in the near future to complete the process for half the cost, but I don't believe the commerical technology is fully mature just yet. Viriditas (talk) 22:09, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

This old video from 2013 explains the process of HD remastering. Viriditas (talk) 22:21, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

I've never been all that picky about the quality of the video I'm watching as long as I can see it. I suspect I may be the exception rather than the rule. 😅 But it really is a nice show. I've been making my way through as much Star Trek as I can and it's taking awhile. I've also been playing Minecraft and taking walks in the forest.

I really have been so much more jaded lately and I'm trying to not let it get to me. Hopefully I'll feel less angsty soon. I think everything that's happened lately (my cat dying, the sudden fame, surprises, reflecting on my life, etc) is finally catching up to me and it's a bit intense sometimes. But I'm sure I'll get through it. I always do because I have to. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 01:21, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

It’s weird. Once you get spoiled by 4K, it gets really difficult to watch older productions that aren’t at least HD remastered. I don’t exactly know why this is, but it is something I personally experienced. It’s like something changes in your brain, I don’t know. Sorry to hear about your cat. I went through the same thing with my cat last year; he died at the age of 21, which for Hawaii isn’t that old. I know a lot of cats that live until they are 25 here, but cars get a lot of them in the end, unfortunately. You sound strong and resilient, here’s hoping you bounce back soon. When I get like that I always turn to comfort food and a good book. Viriditas (talk) 01:37, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

My cat died a few days before Wikimania. She was 14 but she had this really aggressive form of breast cancer that apparently spread into her lungs. I felt awful but I also bottled all the feelings up because I couldn't deal with them right then when there were all these expectations for me. But everything's been a bit bittersweet at best since then now that I can actually allow myself to feel things. It got worse after WCNA. I've been trying to force myself to slow down a bit for my own good. Saying no to people who want me to do even more. Things are just hard. But yeah, I've been told I'm remarkably resilient before. I have to be to not be utterly insane at this point. Sometimes my life feels like an "O'Brien must suffer" plot. I've been reading for the escapism, too. I keep trying to write because I used to love that but my heart isn't quite as in it as it used to be. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 03:25, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Oh, you had to bring up the O'Brien thing, didn't you! I don't want to ruin "Hard Time" for you (I won't link to it because it sounds like you haven't gotten to it yet, but that's the ultimate result). I have to say, thinking about it now, the character arc of Odo is something to behold, as it's so masterfully done. René Auberjonois brings so much to such a complex character. Hold on to your metaphorical hat, by the end of the sixth season, things are going to get weird. Stay strong and enjoy your week. Viriditas (talk) 03:51, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

The Odo & Luaxana Troi episode is one of my all-time favorites. Both of the actors really killed it. IMO all the main characters have really great character arcs--I love Sisko's and Worf's as well--it's what makes DS9 the second best series behind TNG. Levivich (talk) 17:18, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I really like all the main characters in this show. They're all quite fleshed out. I'm a bit fonder of Jake Sisko compared to Wesley Crusher, though I think I liked him more than the average TNG fan. I started watching Star Trek last year because a friend of mine likes the show and it gives us something to talk about other than Wikipedia. :) Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 17:39, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Question from Bristlepaddy (12:02, 21 October 2024)

Hi Clovermoss, I had a draft which seems to have disappeared. I also don't seem able to access the formatting and template tools I found when I was creating this draft. Do please advise if you can. Thanks so much. Bristlepaddy --Bristlepaddy (talk) 12:02, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

@Bristlepaddy: I have undeleted your userpage. I am unsure why Fastily deleted an article draft as not aligned with our goals when writing content is pretty much the entire point of everything. Your draft isn't perfect, but it doesn't have to be. It also isn't so egregiously promotional that another deletion criteria would apply. Let me know if you have any further questions, I always try my best to help newcomers. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 17:34, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi Clovermoss thank you so much! I also was a bit puzzled. Can you advise what I can do to improve the page - making it perfect!? The only thing in red was a reference to David Edgar which I picked up elsewhere and tried to copy. Not sure how to fix it. Bristlepaddy (talk) 17:56, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

@Bristlepaddy: I've changed some of the formatting on the page to help you out. I'm not sure what's going on with that one ref right at this moment, but I'll get back to you once I have a little bit more off my plate and I have some more time to think straight. In the meantime, I'd suggest reading about notability guidelines for biographies and figuring out how to cite inline references (WP:REFBEGIN has a guide for this). Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 18:15, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

@Bristlepaddy: So I still haven't figured out why that one ref won't show up properly, but my best guess is that it has something to do with Internet Archive having some problems lately. As for making the draft into something that could be published in "mainspace" (where all the articles are), you should try your best to find three, reliable sources that cover him in detail. So if you can, try to find stuff like newspaper articles or book chapters about his career. As I was saying, Wikipedia does have certain notability standards for biographies. Something else that may help is looking at other articles like Dorothy Miles for stuff like structure (which it sounds like you were already doing based off what you were saying about citations). Hopefully that's helpful. Let me know if you have any further questions. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 16:48, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Revdel question

Hi, I saw your revdel on this edit. As far as I remember, it just said something like "nice, this gives me a chance to edit through office protection" or some such. Didn't seem like revdel material. Was it really so much worse than I remember? Fram (talk) 17:55, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

+1 - This doesn't need revdel and no policy covers that. TrangaBellam (talk) 17:56, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I removed it under criteria 3 of WP:CRD. That applies to everyone, including admins. That was purely disruptive material. If a few admins I trust tell me that they think this criteria doesn't apply to this edit summary, then I'll undo the action, but for now it doesn't make sense for me to stand down. It was more than "I can edit through this protection". Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 18:01, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Some context matters too. JPxG was able to view a discussion I had where I commented that I was surprised this was possible and then they made that edit shortly thereafter. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 18:03, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

What I would say as a non-admin is that I've never seen "(RD3: Purely disruptive material)" appear on my watchlist which wasn't followed or preceeded by another admin action of some kind (generally a block, but sometimes a warning). Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:06, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

A block would be overkill for something like this. If I was that concerned about JPxG, I would file an ArbCom case request like I did for Dbachmann, but my personal threshold for that has not been reached yet. I am fine with letting this be a one time lapse in judgement and everyone moves on. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 18:09, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I did think about writing a warning at his talk page but I figured that he'd have enough sense to see the revdel and understand why I did it. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 18:10, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

"Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should." is good for the goose and the gander as the saying goes, the big worry is that now it looks like they did something truly horrible when its more like testing the limits in a collegial and arguably constructive albeit cheeky way. I get that other admins will be able to see that it wasn't, but to a non-admin its a major black mark against them. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:15, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I think it went a bit past pushing the limits, which is why I revdelled it. I think other admins can see the content in question and understand why I came that conclusion. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 18:20, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

My edit (which fixed whitespace in the template) was the third made after the Office protection (the first by MusikBot II and the second by JJMC89).

The edit summary was "Extremely rare opportunity to test how office superprotection actually works. Also put me in the screenshot for the news I guess" -- I was only 50% expecting it to actually save in the first place (I remember reading vague mumblings about some technical measure that had been implemented for previous iterations of this). Anyway, after someone yelled at me on Discord, I asked in private for confirmation that this did not cause any actual legal issues for the Foundation, and was given the general idea that it was not a big deal (if it had been, I would have revdelled it myself). If I had realized how much this would wind people up I wouldn't have saved the edit. I think having a revdelled edit summary in the history for this page looks very bad. In particular, having a revdelled edit summary with my username still on it makes me look like a huge dick, so I would prefer that if this absolutely must be done, that the username be redacted as well (or better yet, if it is really that critical, the whole stupid thing oversighted). jp×g🗯️ 18:23, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

@JPxG: What I don't understand is why you couldn't just test it out in preview like I did and trust me that it worked when I told everyone so. I've redacted your username per your request on the diff. I'm glad someone told you it doesn't cause issues, but I also don't want you to make edits to prove a point, which this can definitely look like. This is being cheeky, while this situation is a bit more sensitive and requires a bit more nuance. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 18:29, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I think this might be a time zones thing, I see you posted about it at 8:59 but my edit was at 06:41 <_<;; jp×g🗯️ 18:33, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Well that makes me feel a bit better. I was worried I started the whole thing with WP:BEANS. I don't agree with your actions here but I'm hoping we're still on good terms. One mistake isn't the end of the world. I liked meeting you at WCNA. Just please try to be mindful for these things in the future? Sometimes actions have unforseen consequences. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 18:42, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Not that it's likely to mean much but I agree with your actions here. This attention-seeking behavior should be toned down. I can't think of any other description for what they did at that article, they clearly wanted to be noticed.

I'd add that as the editor-in-chief of the Sigpost, which is covering the office's actions here, this is just a bad look. If you want to be seen as a journalist, you report the news, you don't try and make it yourself. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 22:50, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind words. jp×g🗯️ 03:31, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

The whole thing is not optimal in many respects, but I do not think it warrants personal enmity. For what it is worth I greatly appreciate having both fields off; frankly this is probably better than the original situation. jp×g🗯️ 03:34, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for saying that. I wouldn't have done anything at all if the circumstances weren't extraordinary. But when there's an ongoing legal case where the foundation was viewed as possibly being in contempt of court, there's confusion about the role of WMF vs individual editors, and things like how we work are involved (there's a decent chance a lawyer is going to at least check the page history since y'know there's a button there), reading a disruptive edit summary like that isn't the best of looks. The absolute worst case scenario is that something like that tips the scales and now the foundation can't appeal (obviously that hasn't happened now, but when the clock was ticking, I didn't like that possibility). I don't always agree with the WMF, but overriding their authority in sensitive situations is a big deal. Please don't touch things just because you are able to on a technical level (Wikipedia:Don't delete the main page). Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 09:25, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Growth News, October 2024

Current work

Newcomer Homepage Community Updates module

We will add a new module to the Newcomer Homepage that will allow communities to highlight specific events, projects, campaigns, and initiatives. We have released a simple version on beta wikis and we will soon start an A/B test on our pilot wikis. This module will only display on the Newcomer Homepage if communities decide to utilize it, so learn how to configure the Community Updates module, or share your thoughts on the project's talk page.

One design concept aimed to increase constructive activation

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Future work

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Invitation to participate in research

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Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin October Issue 2

Here is a quick overview of highlights from the Wikimedia Foundation over the second half of October 2024. Please help translate.

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Talk page archiving

Hey, I’ve got a question for you. There’s no hurry at all on an answer, so take your time (or others can answer if they want). Basically, my talk page archives are a total mess. From random archives, to out of date and out of order archives, to even deleted material. What I ideally want to do is delete all my current archives and replace them with a fresh one from the page history. This could be problematic given that some histories were moved while others were left in place on the user talk page and the material was cut and pasted to an archive instead. So I want to start fresh, and ideally have a new archive created based on years alone, from the original user talk history (if that can be pieced back together due to the moves). Any idea how I could do this? Viriditas (talk) 02:34, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Maybe my talk page watchers would have some ideas that are easier. I've always manually archived mine (even though there are bots). My understanding is that archives involving moved pages are a bit more complicated. The only way I can see this working is manually going through each archive and copying stuff from each year.Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 03:06, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, agreed. I was hoping there was an archiving bot that could just look at the page histories and create new archives based on year. Viriditas (talk) 04:02, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

@Viriditas: I could probably find a way to do it manually but I'd want your explicit permission first before I go messing around with anything. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 14:06, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Question from C.Yvon (01:21, 27 October 2024)

Hello Clovermoss, How do you do? I forgot my password and have only been able to retrieve my account today (after 3 years!). I want to add a wiki page for a company. What is the process like please? Thank you! --C.Yvon (talk) 01:21, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi @C.Yvon: writing an article on a company can be a bit difficult. As an encyclopedia, we summarize what reliable sources say about a business. We're not Yellow pages and our notability standards are a bit higher compared to other topics: you can read the requirements here. If you have a conflict-of-interest with said company, read this, as there are additional things to keep in mind. If you are being paid to edit Wikipedia, you must declare it. Let me know if you have further questions Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 02:35, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Question from DuaKhan9 (20:56, 27 October 2024)

I need to create an article here --DuaKhan9 (talk) 20:56, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

@DuaKhan9: Hi and welcome to Wikipedia. I'm a bit concerned the way you phrased that, particularly the "need" part. Wikipedia has notability guidelines and no one "owns" an article so depending on what you're looking for, you might be better off starting a blog on some other website. If you have a conflict of interest with the subject you want to write about, please read this page. If you're being paid to edit, you must disclose this. Let me know if you have further questions. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 20:58, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

A diversity of lawns

I found some fascinating stuff now at Clover#Cultivation history. I've also added a bunch of slightly irrelevant photos to clover lawn; feel free to move or remove as you see fit. There are a lot of different lawns types (camomile lawns, thyme lawns, yarrow lawns... the former two also as raised fragrant lawns used as bench seating). I'm beginning to suspect grass lawn needs splitting out from lawn. I hope life has been less stressful for you lately! HLHJ (talk) 03:22, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

@HLHJ: Thanks for reaching out. To be quite frank, I've been both better and worse. I think maybe I'm a bit burned out? I talk a bit about this above. Grass lawn might be a worthy subtopic, as long as a decent amount of information is retained in the parent article as it's still a predominantly common lawn type. I'm not sure that all the images you added to clover lawn are entirely nessecary but they're not harming anyone and I'm a sucker for clover photos so I'm not going to remove them. I've noticed you like finding images to collate together... maybe you'd like creating galleries at Wikimedia Commons? I've never done so but it seems like an activity you'd enjoy. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 10:51, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

By the way, you'd likely find this interesting given our past interactions on editor retention as a topic. I never thought I'd get mentioned in The Guardian but surprising things happen from time to time. A lot of this year has been like that. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 11:02, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

My sympathy on the death of your cat. That's always hard, especially when it's abrupt and you have to deal with it all at once, and you couldn't even deal with it at once.

I'm sorry you've been feeling down of late. Sure, happiness/sadness wouldn't fill its function if we didn't all get solid doses of both at irregular intervals, but that doesn't really make the sad bits nicer to live through. You don't just get through them because you have to, though; you get through them because they will, necessarily, end, and the joys of life will be bright again.

I'm afraid you do give the solid impression of being saner than well over ninety percent of the general population (I do hope our collective mental health picks up, too; the pandemic was not good for our already-poor social connections, audiovisuals are nice but not the same[1]). And while I don't know what you're trying to write, I'm sure it would be worth reading.

The photos for clover lawn are pretty bad. The photos I added to snowshoe hare or Atlantic cod or even European pilchard are much better (though I've just noticed that the snowshoe hare captions say "snowshoe hare" over and over like something from WP:ASTONISHME). If there are enough photos of a thing (unlike, say, kishu mandarin), I can pick those that are illustrative of the text. And that's what appeals to me; I categorize on Commons, and I draw diagrams, but I don't think I've ever made a gallery, either!

Very impressed you manage to edit on a phone. That is worth writing up in any number of newspapers. When I tried it, it felt like threading a needle in oven mitts. Obviously I didn't manage to build a good workflow.

I'm not sure there are fewer opportunities to create articles now than 20 years ago. Wikipedia used to have more major omissions, but since it's a bit silly to write an article on a subtopic before we have an article on a major topic, I think there are in some ways more opportunities for new articles. And personally, I have a functionally-endless list of articles I want to create; the more I edit, the faster it grows. It is much more difficult to write a new article now, especially as a new editor, but that's not the content.

I am very much a fan of walks in the forest, or whatever open spaces are me-adjacent. If there are bluespaces, I also find boating fun; whatever watersports the water and weather allow. Wind and wave make for nice sounds and scents, and there's something very relaxing about being out there among the stones and plants and reflections. HLHJ (talk) 18:02, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

@HLHJ: I actually agree with you that there's plenty of articles to create. My to-do list is huge and that's just what I've actually written out. I don't agree with everything in the piece, I'm just a small part of it. I'll be spending a lot of time in the water in the near future. I'm in the middle of transitioning into a new career as a seafarer. I've done the basic training to be an unlicensed officer (like basic firefighting) and I should be able to actually get a job soon once my local police service ends up actually getting around to giving me a piece of paper that says I don't have a criminal record. If you're interested in collating image, this page on Commons explains what galleries are. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 18:18, 28 October 2024 (UTC)