Talk:Israelis

photos of Israelis

Why are all of the photos of Ashkenazim? There should be photos of mizrachim, sephardim, and other Jewish ethnic divisions. There should also be photos of the Arab minority of Israel if not other minority groups! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.1.207.30 (talk) 18:53, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Please add photos of them then. Fipplet (talk) 19:00, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

ADD

SHAUL MOFAZ BOAZ MAUDA DALIA ITZIK SHLOMO MULA ESTI MALMO \ tht should add diversity to the pictures —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.156.21.217 (talk) 22:42, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

someone should delete this article

israelis are NOT an ethnic group, being "israeli" is simply being citizen of state of israel, its not an ethnic term! there i no any senese of kinship among the arab, jewish, christian, druze or muslim populations of israel!!! Varcety 23:48, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Who said they're an ethnic group ? The category you mean ? Btw, the fact there are muslim, christian and Jews doesn't mean they don't have any sense of kinship. Many non jews hold the flag dear to their hearts (many druze for example that you mentioned). Amoruso 00:10, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps the usage of {{Infobox Ethnic group}} in this article can be misleading. It's only supposed to be used in articles about ethnic groups, and "Israeli" is a nationality. Khoikhoi 10:51, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't see any agreement with you here, and your attempt to removed it from the Palestinian refugee article was reverted by somebody else. As they said... "removal of information shall not be tolerated"! lol Anyway... I'm going to do the same here and restore the infobox that you removed. Mathmo ^Talk 15:33, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

It's inappropriate to have an ethnic group infobox in an article that's not about an ethnic group. Khoikhoi 19:20, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Not sure how this is different than French people or italian people, Israelis are a people, and can be classified as ethnic group also by the wiki article - which only says usually by ancestry etc. No problem with it here. Don't remove stuff without any consensus please. I agree that ethnic group doesn't describe it well but why remove the box ? Maybe change it like in French people and still include the information ? Amoruso 01:22, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

"Israeli" is a nationality, not an ethnic group. Here's what the CIA Factbook says:

Ethnic groups: Jewish 76.4% (of which Israel-born 67.1%, Europe/America-born 22.6%, Africa-born 5.9%, Asia-born 4.2%), non-Jewish 23.6% (mostly Arab) (2004)

According to this, Israel is home to many poeples, not just one. Khoikhoi 01:44, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah this is like trying to define Americans are an ethnic group which few would support. The Israelis aren't an ethnic group, but a multi-ethnic nation with various religions dominated by Judaism, Islam, Christianity etc. "Ethnic" varies as there are Georgian Jews, German Jews, Persian Jews etc. so how are all of these people an ethnic group? Not to mention Israeli Arabs and the Druze. It's not a tenable position at all. Tombseye 06:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, the French and Italians have an established cultural position in their respective homelands. The Israelis are mostly new arrivals who came from Europe, other parts of the Mideast etc. Their names vary, mother tongues vary (they all learn Hebrew now true) so this is still more analogous to Americans, Canadians, Argentines etc. Tombseye 06:58, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Shift its purpose to talk about the people of Israel the ethnic divisons more indepth that in the article about demography.

Israeli Jews

Shouldn't we have a separate article Israeli Jews (Israeli Jew is now a redirect to Religion in Israel)? --Koryakov Yuri 16:52, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Demographic table

The following table was inserted into the demographics section:

Israeli Jews by country of origin (2005)	5,488,000	100.00%
Israeli-born, born to an Israeli-born father	1,716,900	31.28%
Israeli-born, born to an Israeli-born father	1,716,900	31.28%
Jewish immigrants and first-generation Israeli Jews	3,771,100	68.72%
Former Soviet Union	1,171,300	21.34%
Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia	744,700	13.57%
Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia	520,600	9.48%
Iraq, Lebanon, Syria	277,900	5.06%
UK, North America, Oceania, South Africa	185,800	3.38%
Iran, India, Pakistan	181,100	3.30%
Yemen	143,500	2.61%
Turkey, Bulgaria, Greece	136,500	2.48%
Ethiopia	97,500	1.77%
Austria, Germany	80,100	1.46%
Argentina	62,000	1.13%
Europe, other	61,500	1.12%
France	52,700	0.96%
Latin America, other	39,700	0.72%
Asia, other	18,800	0.34%

I don't understand why it combines people born in Israel with those born elsewhere, and why it only lists origins of fathers. It appears to give a distorted view of Israelis, which concerns me. Jayjg ^(talk) 03:18, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

It is taken from the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics[1]. As to why they lists only the origin of the father: "Continent/country of origin for persons: born abroad - continent/country of birth; for persons born in Israel - father's continent/country of birth"[2]. The Israeli CBS holds data for Jews who either immigrated to Israel or were born to an immigrant father (together they make up 68.72% of the Jewish population), but not for Jews who were born in Israel to an Israeli-born father (the remaining 31.28%). Finschonnd (talk) 08:12, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

It would seem to make more sense to include tables that divide Israelis into native-born and immigrants (with country of origin); the CBS has those numbers too, does it not? Jayjg ^(talk) 18:03, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Deletion discussion

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Israeli British. Badagnani (talk) 04:09, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Layout

The layout of this article was totally wrecked by someone who didn't bother to look at the effect of having a very short intro teamed with a very large box and large photo, resting directly above another photo that was not floating but had a fixed position between a heading, and the text that it pertained to. The effect, which anyone with eyes could see, was to orphan the heading and create a great gap in the substance of the article.

If you put the pics back, it won't work. Look before leaving. Amandajm (talk) 13:44, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

The images of prominant Israelis in the infobox is missing an Israeli Arab

The Israeli society needs to be represented more accurately in the infobox (Nowadays the Israeli-Arab population is around 24.3 % of all Israelis). which figure should be chosen? maybe Mohammad Bakri ? (unfortunatly there is no free image of him in wikicommons). any other ideas? TheCuriousGnome (talk) 04:42, 13 June 2009 (UTC) the arabs israelis are more like 18% of all israelis.. 24% is the precent on all non-jews israel.. but not all of them are arabs.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nadave (talk • contribs) 11:00, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

The Arabs, including East-Jerusalem, are 20% but the Arabs of East-Jerusalem are "permanent residents" not Israeli citizens. So the Arabs are closer to 17% and all non-Jews around 20% in Israel. Among Israelis abroad, 80% are Jews, 20% non-Jews mostly former USSR immigrants - according to the ICBS. Anyway, yes, we have to include some pics of Israeli Arabs. Benjil (talk) 11:13, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism

The changing of the info box to 100% Ashkenazi Jewish must stop, seeing that Ashkenazim are only 33% of Israelis —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.48.230.141 (talk) 20:13, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

On the other hand, putting pictures of stupid pop singers is not exactly better. Benjil (talk) 21:43, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

First of all, the percentage of Ashkenazi/Mizrahi Jews in Israel is unknown (The "Data" we have is unsourced and is probably fabricated). But it's reasonable to believe Ashkenazis make up at least 40% of the population, if not more.

Let's see:

• Boaz Mauda, Shiri Maimon, Liel Collette and Eyal Golan all together don't share the level of popularity Shlomo Artzi does.

• Tzipi Livni and Szaul Mofaz over the founding father Ben Gurion, or even Rabin? ridiculous.

• Omri Caspi? If we're talking sports, Shahar Peer, Dudi Sela, Erlich/Ram and Berkovic are internationally known. Casspi is too, but to a much lesser extent.

• Ovadia Yosef over Yisrael Meir Lau? Again, makes no sense.

• Why is there a photo of an unknown Ethiopian soldier? People are already aware there are Blacks in Israel, so I really don't see the point.

• Dalia Itzik shouldn't be there either, but I can let this one go.

I think the old infobox was perfectly fine. It offers a politician, a Zionist leader, a musician, a national poet, a contemporary writer, a Rabbi (and the chairman of Yad VaSzem), an actress, an astronaut, a model and a well respected singer. But I guess they're not nearly as important as Mr. Mauda, after all. Too bad they're of the wrong race.

Now, what you're suggesting here is what *I* call racism. We should choose people who are well known and influential, regardless of their ethnic heritage. But if you insist on including other ethnicities there in the name of political correctness, make sure you choose people who actually mean something for the country and its people, and not some unknown silly pop stars.Rstin18 (talk) 23:23, 1 August 2009 (UTC) Infoboxes must be demographically representative you

No, we must people who ethnically represent the stae, YOU ARE WITH YOU INFOBOX PROPAGATING MYTHS SUGGESTING THAT ALL ISRAELS ARE EUROPEAN JEWS, WHY DONT YOU GO TO THE FORGOTTEN REFUGEES WEBSITE WH

iF YOU WONT LISTEN TO ME SCROLL UP THE PAGE AND SEE THAT IM NOT THE ONLY ONE OUTRAGED BY YOUR DOWNLPLAYING OF THE IMPACT OF mIZRAHIM ON iSRAELI SOCETY. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DanielBarzelay (talk • contribs) 00:10, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Re.Let's see:

• Boaz Mauda, Shiri Maimon, Liel Collette and Eyal Golan all together don't share the level of popularity Shlomo Artzi does.

- No In Israel today Shlomo Artzis influence as a singer is certainly much less than someone like Eyal Golan who is probably Israel’s most popular singer, Ofra Haza certainly was bigger than Artzi ever was, even Zohar Azgov

• Tzipi Livni and Szaul Mofaz over the founding father Ben Gurion, or even Rabin? ridiculous.

-I actually agree with you here,

• Omri Caspi? If we're talking sports, Shahar Peer, Dudi Sela, Erlich/Ram and Berkovic are internationally known. Casspi is too, but to a much lesser extent.

-This is a matter of opinion and it is really of no consequence, but Casspi is in the NBA so…….

• Ovadia Yosef over Yisrael Meir Lau? Again, makes no sense.

- This a matter of opinion and of no significance, your Ashkenazi, im Mizrahi that’s why we disagree here

• Why is there a photo of an unknown Ethiopian soldier? People are already aware there are Blacks in Israel, so I really don't see the point.

- This is needed, as is the Arab priest, infact more arabs should be included in the infobox, (instead of people like Liel, and so on….

• Dalia Itzik shouldn't be there either, but I can let this one go. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DanielBarzelay (talk • contribs) 00:20, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

When people come to this page they must see a representative image of Israeli society, not of who is more influential, save that for the greatest Israelis page not Israelis, think page should disprove, not incurage stereotypes about the demographics of Israel, and to the data being false,it certainly is not (although I think it should be deleted anyways because there's no source). —Preceding unsigned comment added by DanielBarzelay (talk • contribs) 00:35, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

The old infobox was here for a good a couple of months before you came along. How about showing some respect? When we'll get to an agreement, then feel free to change things. Until then, have a little patience.

• How can you be so sure it's not false, if there's no source? The Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics doesn't public ethic data regarding third-generation Israeli Jews.
• It is a matter of influence and importance. This is true for any other Wikipedia article discussing ethnic/national group.
• According to your logic, out of the 12 people there, 4-5 should be of Ashkenazi descent. But the only one I see are Ramon and Livni. Why is that? And why stop there, anyway... Why don't you put a South American Jew? They do make up 2% of the population, same as Ethiopian Jews. And what about an American Jew? Lithuanian Jew? and let's not forget, there are no Sephardic Jews here. See how idiotic that is?
• Again, if you insist on Mizrahi Jews, at least pick someone worth mentioning. The current choices are an insult to Mizrahi Jews and Israel, especially if it's over the ones who were there before. Golan doesn't belong here. Einstein, Alberstein, Artzi, Hanoch and even the Yemeni Damari are all considered to be musical legeneds in Israel. Golan is not, and never was. It's not even a matter of opinion. Same is true for Maimon and Collette.

How about David Ben Gurion, H.N. Bialik, Dalia Itzik, Natalie Portman, Amos Oz and Ilan Ramon for a start?Rstin18 (talk) 02:12, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

As a Sefaradi Jew, allow me just to say that I don't give a shit (sorry) about the percentage of Ashkenazim or Sefaradim or Mizrahim (this last group being an Ashkenazi invention by the way, that never existed before, there was Edot Hamizrah for the non-Sefaradi Eastern Jews but that's another subject). Anyway, if you want to reflect this issue on the pictures: take down Dalia Itzik, she is an insult to anything Israeli ; Add Shoshana Damari ; Add Ovadia Yosef. And that should be ok. Benjil (talk) 08:34, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

How about David Ben Gurion, H.N. Bialik, Dalia Itzik, Boaz Mauda, Ovadia Yosef, Amos Oz and Ilan Ramon for a start