This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section – it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.
Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story.
Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story.
A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles.
Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage.
The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death.
All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality.
Nomination steps
Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards.
Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually – a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC).
Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate.
Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready!
You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination.
The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.
When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria.
Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A.
If satisfied, change the header to (Posted).
Where there is no consensus, or the article's quality remains poor, change the header to (Closed) or (Not posted).
Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled).
Voicing an opinion on an item
Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.
Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten.
Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. You may be the first to spot a problem, or the first to confirm that an identified problem was fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes will help administrators see what is ready to be posted on the Main Page.
Tell about problems in articles if you see them. Be bold and fix them yourself if you know how, or tell others if it's not possible.
Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are not helpful. A vote without reasoning means little for us, please elaborate yourself.
Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive.
Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). We at ITN do not handle conflicts of interest.
Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
The eurozone slides into deeper recession, making 2012 the first year with no growth in any quarter since tracking began in 1995. Economic experts, who had not expected this, say that 2013's "early indicators are all pointing upwards". (Reuters via The Irish Times)
French sources find traces of phenylbutazone, a suspected harmful drug, in several horse carcasses slaughtered in Somerset, England, and fear they could be part of lasagne or other food sold in France. (CNN)
The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) will switch off for two years, giving time for engineers and scientists to install upgrades to the machine. (BBC)
Steam for Linux is released, beginning the expansion of Valve's game service onto the free and open-source platform.[1] This leads to 2000 games being ported to the platform in a span of a little over 3 years.[2]
Nominator's comments: The boards of both airlines have approved the merger. The official announcement will be later today - my suggested blurb presumes that we will wait for the official announcement before posting. ----Bongwarrior (talk) 01:54, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Big news in the airline industry. It's the third merger of it's kind since 2008, however. They keep trying to one-up each-other to be the "world's biggest airline". I find it odd, however, that the Delta-NWA merger was not posted, yet the United-Continental merger was posted. No idea what will happen this time. -- Anc516 (Talk ▪ Contribs) 04:12, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It's basically this or bankruptcy (from the source: "The deal caps a turbulent period of bankruptcies and consolidation") it doesn't indicate any sort of growth or innovation worth showcasing. Some execs will get buyouts, ticket prices will increase and less competition will mean fewer choices for the consumer--i.e., same old same old. μηδείς (talk) 04:33, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support pending updates and changes to existing articles. Only question is, what is the new airline to be called? A better blurb would be "American Airlines and US Airways announce a merger to form the world's largest airline JoeBlogs Airline" if that is possible. - Shuddetalk08:57, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strike that - should have been more careful. A blurb that clarifies that the new airline will be called American Airlines would be good though. - Shuddetalk
Support, after the boards make the official announcement later today. Creation of the world's biggest airline is highly notable, regardless of their reasons and motives for merging. Nsk92 (talk) 09:01, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support in principle, but I'm wondering if we should wait for approval by US antitrust regulators and the judge involved(which seems likely, but still). 331dot (talk) 10:20, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Apple Inc. is denied their request to sell their phones under the name "iPhone" in Brazil after regulators voted in favor of IGB Electronica who won the rights to use the name in 2008. (Bloomberg)
Nominator's comments: Dorner has killed 3 people associated with the LAPD this month. The manhunt for Dorner has been called one of the largest in recent American history, and they've apparently found him and are engaging in a shootout now. A good blurb would probably indicate his capture or death. --– Muboshgu (talk) 21:59, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support, an interesting (intense?) and unique (and terrible) story. This may sound crude, but it sounds like a movie, and the repercussions and historical impact are likely to be notable. Also most read-about story on the BBC right now. --Kawaii-Soft (talk) 22:04, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support, It probably should have been posted a while back, since it wasn't I was planning on waiting until he was caught. Even if he happens to get away, it's a significant enough event related to this to post. I think we need to say "the suspected gunman" not "the gunman". Two deputies were wounded in this shooting already. RyanVesey22:07, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support posting upon capture or death of the suspect. I'm listening to the police band and live news feeds. They've got him pinned down in Big Bear right now.--WaltCip (talk) 22:15, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support note there is a heated debate regarding the merging of the articles w/no clear consensus. IMO since ITN posts events, only the event should be bold. I won't lose any sleep if a posting admin disagrees. --IP98 (talk) 22:23, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Update needed The socal shooting article shows the manhunt is ongoing. No real info about the shootout in the donner article. I have no idea: is he captured? dead? Holed up? What? --IP98 (talk) 22:34, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the UK has seen a "cop killer" (two female officers shot and hand-grenaded) plead guilty today, the murder of British cops is far less common than the sad murders of US cops, manhunt or not. Posting this would be really a revisit to the original crime. This is "interesting" and "shocking" but just one of those things, trying to "catch" (or shoot) a perp, and something most of the world perceives as being commonplace in the US these days. And from a technical perspective, there's no good reason this "perp" should have his own article, as noted by the various maintenance tags that the above supporters have clearly disregarded while supporting this article for the main page. Lacking. I would also urge the potential promoting admin to wait until the rest of Europe/Asia etc wakes up to determine if this minor, insular event in the US warrants main page inclusion, to avoid an absolute systemic bias. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:44, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support, although (unfortunately) such events are common in the US. It is widely covered by significant international media outlets.Egeymi (talk) 22:40, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I hate to sound callous but when we generally judge disasters by body count, I don't see why we shouldn't treat deliberate killings the same—three shootings, not at the one time, doesn't seem as newsworthy to me as, say, a 20-fatality crash or such like, which we have turned down in the past. Plus TRM has a point about these not being that isolated as events, globally or locally. GRAPPLEX22:43, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Worse than that, this is the fallout from the original crime. This is "chasing" (and no doubt killing) the perp. Not ITN on an English-speaking global scale. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:45, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. There are some crime stories that transcend the limited nature of being a crime story and in some significant way affect the national discourse about something or make significant political impact. E.g. the Trayvon Martin story was one of these, in affecting the national discourse in the U.S. about race and the "stand your ground" laws. But the Dorner story is not it, at least not yet. For the moment it is just a highly publicized police chase/manhunt. Unless it becomes something significantly more than that, I don't see it as fitting for ITN. Nsk92 (talk) 22:48, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps the Trayvon Martin story was not a good example in the INT context, but, say, the Newtown shooting story pretty much immediately changed the national discourse in the U.S. about gun control. Nsk92 (talk) 22:57, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, how's this for a "national conversation" - since the shooting, there has been a social media outpour of support for the shooter[1]. You will not get that with a common cop killer in the UK.--WaltCip (talk) 23:02, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment to The Rambling Man and Grapple X :: So let me get this straight: A bus crash, a routine traffic accident, with tragic consequences == OMG support. The conclusion of a crime spree which has seen innocent people shot by police in an international manhunt, yawn, boring, some cops got shot in the UK so who cares. Really? Please, please please point me to WP:ITN/MinimumDeaths so I can figure out exactly what the benchmark is for inclusion. --IP98 (talk) 22:53, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Actually you might notice I don't line up to support crashes either, but merely pointed out that they feature a greater loss of life and are often passed up. Is this or is this not the case? GRAPPLEX23:10, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There was just a huge flare-up about too much focus on loss of life with the nor'easter. Dorner is referred to as the most wanted man in america (or something similar) at [5], [6], and [7] among other sites. RyanVesey23:21, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Shootouts with gunmen who've killed several people are, regrettably, not that rare, particularly in the United States. I'm pretty sure we don't post most of them. Can people provide some explanation of why they think this one is particularly notable? Unless this can be persuasively explained, I tend to think this is a dramatic but fairly transitory news phenomenon, and I will oppose. Neljack (talk) 23:30, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This shootout is unlike others in the past. Most murderers are not ex-cop/ex-military. Most murderers don't release a manifesto taking on the LAPD. Most murderers don't have $1,000,000 awards offered for information that leads to their capture. Most murderers aren't referred to as the most wanted men in America. This is the largest manhunt in LAPD history. There is nothing average about this event. RyanVesey23:42, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure of the relevance of the fact is an ex-cop/soldier. I suppose it might make him more dangerous, but I would have thought that any mass murderer would be regarded as pretty dangerous. I'm not sure issuing a manifesto makes a mass murderer more notable. Has the manifesto had much effect? Has it, for instance, garnered much support, or prompted others to copy him, or provoked much debate? The size of the manhunt and the reward do suggest a somewhat great notability than most people who kill several people, but on balance I still oppose. It's getting massive news coverage in the US because it's so dramatic with the standoff going on, but I stand by my judgments that it is a largely transitory news phenomenon. International coverage isn't that big - despite the drama, it's not leading BBC News, al Jazeera or Xinhua world news. Neljack (talk) 00:41, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Less coverage or notability than a bus hitting a truck? That's in the template now. A bus hitting a truck. You supported that based on death toll, but there is no WP:ITN/MinimumDeaths. This resulted in an international manhunt, in addition to all the items mentioned by Ryan Vesey. I just don't understand.... --IP98 (talk) 01:02, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry that you don't understand why I consider an incident involving the deaths of 53 people to be more notable than one involving the deaths of four or five people. Of course, there's no threshold of deaths, each nominations falling to be considered in light of the circumstances of the case, but the death toll is a highly relevant consideration. Neljack (talk) 02:22, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand why you find an incident involving a massive police manhunt, crossing borders, police shooting innocent people, and a highly trained suspect less notable than a bus simply hitting a truck. --IP98 (talk) 10:38, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's probably down to apathy vs empathy, it's commonplace for gun crimes to occur in the US, there's no shock involved for most of us. So a few more police were involved than normal (as a result of them chasing a "cop killer") and a larger than normal reward was offered (no big deal) and borders were crossed (really? unless you mean Canada, a state border is hardly notable...!) and he was a former cop ("highly trained..."!!) ... Meanwhile it's very shocking for most people to see over fifty people killed in an incident involving just a couple of vehicles. Anyway, we're all entitled to our opinions, aren't we? The Rambling Man (talk) 11:30, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment In addition to the unique situation, this is also the first time that an unmanned surveillance drone has been authorized for use against a civilian in the US. Obviously not blurb worthy but important to the developing story. --MASEM (t) 00:43, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support upon the capture or death of Dorner, which seems imminent. This isn't just a one-off cop killing, this is a former cop killing other cops on a mission of revenge and has published a manifesto alleging it is due to racism, a major issue in the US. 331dot (talk) 01:15, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per The Rambling Man. The job of the police is to engage in such cases anywhere in the world they occur, but there is nothing that sets this apart from the numerous other similar cases in the other countries. It's pretty clear that this is a local news with no impact on anything at all. Importantly, the United States is not one of the countries where this is pretty unusual and rare to warrant its inclusion; shootings on this scale occur at least 2-3 times a year.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 01:17, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Three dead is really rather run of the mill, unfortunately, and not to be crass about it. If this were West Virginia I doubt it would be such a big story, and the social media angle is probably blowing this way out of proportion. I am leary of setting a precedent, kill three people, go on twitter get yourself on the front page of wikipedia. That being said I see there is some support here and if there's a lot of interest outside the English speaking world, like with the French Synagog shooter then I could change my mind. μηδείς (talk) 01:19, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment When did death count become a deciding factor? The fact is that this is in the news, period. It doesn't matter how many people have died. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:12, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Lots of things are in the news; that is not the criterion. Per the criteria for ITN, we have to make a judgment regarding "the significance of the developments described in the updated content." Neljack (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
And this has major implications for the LAPD beyond the death count. Dorner's dismissal is being re-investigated. Charges of racism against the LAPD date back beyond Rodney King, and this is shining a spotlight on it once again.[9] – Muboshgu (talk) 02:45, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Major implications, Muboshgu? This was murder-suicide-by-cop that played out big in the media because it happened in a media town. Dorner's accusations of racism are about as relevant as his support for gun control, Barack Obama, and Chris Cristie, and as rational as his decision to clear his name by killing the children of the man who defended him when he was being fired. Did I say Chris Cristie? Yes. From the madman's manifesto: "Gov. Chris Christie. What can I say? You’re the only person I would like to see in the White House in 2016 other than Hillary." This is not significant. It's tragic and pathetic. Make my soft oppose above a firm one. μηδείς (talk) 02:57, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Dorner held the LA area in a great amount of fear, and there is fallout beyond the deaths. His dismissal is being reopened, though I'm sure the police chief just hopes to exonerate the department.[10] I don't care what it says in his manifesto, I haven't read it. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:02, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The title for this nomination is misleading. What is in the news, and thus is the updated content in question, is the shootout, not the murders that have occurred some days ago. So people are saying that a shootout in which one police officer has been killed should be in ITN. Neljack (talk) 02:36, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
With this update, I'd be happy to change my oppose to an RD support for Dorner, but I'm still unchanged as to the full blurb either way. GRAPPLEX03:10, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Great news, but we don't post people to RD unless they are important in some field. This guy is like the executed Indian terrorist we just discussed, a nobody. μηδείς (talk) 03:14, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose - While Dorner was not your average murderer and did indeed hold the LA region in fear, I don't think this is quite significant enough on an international or even national level. SwarmX03:19, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I have removed the blurbs as the reports of finding Dorner's body are not true. Feel free to write a new blurb/new blurbs. -- tariqabjotu04:31, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support I think there are several aspects of this story which make it far more noteworthy than a simply "cop killer" story people which people have called it. The killer - an ex-cop and military reservist with several medals - has posted a manifesto online, was the subject of the largest manhunt in LAPD history (a manhunt which may still be going on since I don't believe there has been any confirmations of his death), and during the mahunt the LAPD accidentally attacked several citizens who they mistook to be Dorner. When it is all added up I believe this is sufficiently notable for ITN. --PlasmaTwa205:32, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Sorry but I am not sure how an article on the person meets WP:BIO1E (probably why it's up for a merge) and also not seeing what the lasting significance of this event is (as per WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not a newspaper), but then to be objective, the US has a little under 12,000 gun related deaths per year (excluding suicides) so 3 is not that significant for the US however they are caused. LightGreenAppletalk to me11:41, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Shootings on this scale are not rare in the US. The fact that the criminal was a former police officer does not add any significance to the incident. There will be no lasting impact or encyclopaedic value. Modest Geniustalk14:44, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support when we have a good blurb; this is something readers are likely to look for more information about given the amount of news coverage. Whether or not we want news sources to cover this, they are, and readers are likely to be looking for additional, encyclopedic information about it. --Jayron3221:22, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I doubt it, it's something that most readers would consider commonplace in the US, yet another stupid shooting of a couple of people and a suicide. It's really, really irrelevant in the big scheme of things given how often we see these tragic stories in the US. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:28, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well I count at least ten supports that I haven't responded to, so I guess you're either talking bollocks or you can't count. Retract or look stupid, your call. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:39, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, let's go with page views, of course. Perhaps you can make that part of ITN/R? Sasha Grey has had 3/4 million hits in the past month for nothing at all. Pointless comparison, pointless contribution. Thanks. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:39, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Did I ever say that it should be posted due to the number of page views? I said that it shows that readers don't consider this commonplace. If it was commonplace, they wouldn't care enough to be going to the article. Fox and CNN wouldn't have been broadcasting the story nonstop yesterday. The fact that you find it commonplace means absolutely nothing. RyanVesey21:42, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Regular (ex)porn star gets same number as page views as this major super manhunt/mega-warrior versus LAPD/biggest manhunt in history/million dollar reward etc etc. It's really flat, he was accused of killing a couple of people, and then went on the run, and just because it became a publicity festival, it shouldn't be ITN. Murders through gun crime and people on the run is commonplace in the US, it's not newsworthy. Why am I not surprised that Fox would sensationalise this rubbish? Have you ever seen television outside the US? Fox is ridiculed, CNN is tape on rotation. Sad you might think otherwise. Not significant outside LA, not significant to the world. Not newsworthy. Not worth ITN. Sorry. A bit. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:48, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support very similar to the DC sniper shooting, which left the Washington D.C area terrorized with fear until the subjects behind those attacks were caught. The same scenario applies here, but with a much bigger metropolitan area being affected. I agree with Bongwarrior that the case, (the finding of human remains) needs to be resolved first, and if the LAPD states the he somehow escaped, it would mean the case is still outgoing. Huge global story here, with significant impact. Secretaccount21:56, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - I have tried not to comment on this one, but feel compelled to weigh in on what I find to be sensationalist drama-mongering compared to the other blurbs we have going. Jusdafax02:21, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. No joking, yet another Tuesday afternoon shooting in the good old US of A? <Yawn> OTOH, it would be notable if there weren't any spree shootings in the US in any given month. -- Ohconfucius ping / poke04:35, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The contempt is offensive, Confucius. We don't speak of "just another old Chinee run down by a tank" or the like. Show some respect for your fellow editors and humans. μηδείς (talk) 06:29, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What a racist comment. How about some respect for the Chinee? We probably don't speak of "just another old Chinee run down by a tank" or the like because the Chinee don't run people down with tanks all that often, certainly not as often as the Mericans get into shootdowns with their guns. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.97.89 (talk) 08:24, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, as per Ohconfucius above. Not notable, and we wouldn't even be discussing it if it wasn't in the States. And Medeis' comparison above made me laugh heartily, too silly, thanks, I needed that this morning. Fgf10 (talk) 08:17, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as per Neljack above. Unfortunately mass shootings in the US are not uncommon. There have been many in the last six months. Wish they were more rare, but they're not. - Shuddetalk08:25, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It isn't just another mass shooting; it is a mass shooting by an ex-cop against other cops. That doesn't happen every day, even in the US. 331dot (talk) 10:53, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This vote was not the final word, as wrestling will now compete with other sports for inclusion in the program. This shouldn't be considered until the final vote. 331dot (talk) 12:52, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose because this announcement is yet premature (we might still see Greco Roman wrestling in 2020, depending on the outcome of a different vote.) --hydrox (talk) 13:48, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support in principle Wrestling in the Olympics dates back to ancient Greece and this news really is suprising and sure to cause controversy, but if it is not the final vote then I don't know if it should be put up since the sport argurably stands a far greater chance of making the Olympics than some of the other proposed sports. Sure makes me wonder why they opted to keep the Equestrian events though. --PlasmaTwa205:34, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The stories I have read indicates they are removing wrestling from the list of "25 core sports" to allow for the possibility of including a new one. Resolute20:59, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Little to no earthquake history in this region; probable North Korean nuclear weapons test. Details still sketchy, so will need to wait til information becomes clearer. --Ks0stm(T•C•G•E)03:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wait for more information. It most likely is one, as the area the seismic activity was detected has no history of natural earthquakes, but we should wait for an official statement from North Korea or confirmation by other governments. 331dot (talk) 03:56, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Needs Expansion for some bizarre reason this article keeps being reverted from full paragraph to list form. So until it is expanded it fails the three full paragraph requirement. μηδείς (talk) 07:34, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ready Again? Well, were back to at least three paragraphs of at least four sentences each with this edit. It looks ready, but any admin posting this should check to make sure it's not reverted to list form in the reaction section or otherwise compromised. μηδείς (talk) 08:03, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Insurgents launch an attack on the strategic city of Gao, capturing a police station and sparking a day-long firefight that included Malian troops, as well as French attack helicopters. (Al Jazeera)
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Once the articles are updated with the winner of this award, should be posted per ITN/R. --User:Simfan34
Support Papal resignations are rare, indeed. Canuck89 (talk to me) 11:20, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
Question - This should obviously be posted, however the question is when should it be posted. After the article is ready or when the Pope actually resigns? YuMaNuMaContrib11:24, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
With breaking news like this, the announcement of resignation is often enough big news and posted as it is announced. This recently happened with abdication announcement of the Dutch queen. Whether this should be posted again after the abdication really takes effect can be discussed then. --hydrox (talk) 11:34, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wait. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we list only "events" instead of "announcements"? Which means wait until 28 February, i.e. the day when he steps down. --bender235 (talk) 11:25, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That might be true with most other similar announcements; but this is such a rare event (last time was 1415) that the announcement is notable in this case. 331dot (talk) 12:05, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support alternative blurb, but I would go with "resign", rather than "abdicate". Wikinews, the BBC, the Guardian and Reuters (see the sources of the Wikinews page) have all gone with "resign". It Is Me Heret / c11:39, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Also, I would go with "the papacy", rather than "the papal throne". Canuck89 (talk to me) 11:40, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
Support now or later pending update but not both. New pope is ITN/R and will post per normal. For something like this though, we need a proper minimum update. Should be no problem to find WP:RS to build it out. --IP98 (talk) 11:46, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support - obviously world-wise importance. To complicate the abdicate/resign issue a bit further, the official text of the announcement states that the Pope intends to "... renounce the ministry of Bishop of Rome...", therefore I suggest blurb changed to PopeBenedict XVI declares he is to renounce his ministry at the end of the month, the first to do so since Pope Gregory XII in 1415. An optimist on the run! 11:48, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This article from the Catholic Encyclopedia has Papal resignation listed under the article for abdication. Surely if you relinquish the rights to a throne you abdicate, Edward VIII didn't resign he abdicated. I think using the word resign undermines the whole thing, anybody can resign, only a few people can abdicate --Andrew12:38, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It also mentions "abdicating the Papacy" which, as opposed to resignation, doesn't make it sound like he worked at Walmart --Andrew12:52, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The word abdicate should be definitely used. The pope is elected for life, it's not an office one just resigns from. Resign is just a kind euphemism. Inglok (talk) 13:11, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I dont think that because numerous media sources are promoting shoddy journalism that that's any reason for us to follow suit. A termination of the papal throne, a position for life, is an abdication. --Andrew14:14, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
But even that article talks about both "papal abdication" and "papal resignation". From the evidence we have seen here so far, it strikes me that most sources use "resign"/"resignation", a minority of sources use both "resignation" and "abdication", but I have not seen you offer any sources which support your viewpoint, which is that "resignation" is not an acceptable term. It Is Me Heret / c15:27, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. But the accepted term is "resign". And he doesn't occupy a "throne". Y'all are confusing someone who looks like a secular monarch for... a monarch. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 14:28, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
CommentCNN has an opinion saying that "resign" is the correct term because that's the term used in a translation of the Canon Law. I checked the authoritative Latin source and it uses the phrase "muneri| suo renuntiet", 'reject his office'. So not only are they right that "abdicate" is used in the modern times mostly of monarchs (which The Pope is not) and that the original source seems to use a term that is maybe best translated as "resign", most sources are also using "resign" as pointed out above. --hydrox (talk) 17:15, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Prime Minister of TunisiaHamadi Jebali says he will resign if a new "technocratic" government cannot be formed in a few days. Amid protests one policeman dies and tens of protesters are injured. (BBC)(Tunisia Live)
One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Record of the Year is not the most important Grammy Award. I see no reason to exclude the other two main categories (or at least the Album one), just check the last years:
The main blurb is also factually wrong. Adele didn't win Record or Album of the year. She did that LAST year. I don't know why we're posting results from the 54th Grammys. This was the 55th. Unlike last year, there just wasn't any dominating winner that took home any chunk of the major categories, or indeed won lots of awards. All of the awards were spread out pretty well. Mumford & Sons won Album of the Year for Babel, Gotye feat. Kimbra won Record of the Year for "Somebody That I Used to Know", while fun. won Song of the Year for "We Are Young". The only act that took home more than one of the "Four Majors" was fun., who also took home Best New Artist. So, I'd go with the alt blurb, if anything. --Jayron3216:49, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb since its a year out of date. I think we typically post Record of the Year (Gotye & Kimbra) and Album of the Year (Mumford & Sons). No need to mention fun., since they didn't win one of those two. Teemu08 (talk) 17:11, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wake Up people! I am not exactly sure what the rules are for updates when a blurb has three bold targets, but I would assume each needs five lines of prose. And 24 hours after the awards that is not the case for Gotye or Mumford and Sons. Whoever nominated this, and whoever cares, needs to follow up. If we can't find four sentences of comments on each of these wiiners then maybe we should change the blurb to "They held the Grammys and nobody cared." μηδείς (talk) 04:01, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Or just adjust the blurb. Prose update in 2013 grammy awards exactly the same as 2012 and 2011 which was posted. --IP98 (talk) 13:28, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Weak oppose. Breaking news: farts sniffed. My own concerns about the academy's insular nature aside, I don't like the fact that we routinely go for this one and the Oscars, when one is undisputedly the top of its field and one is simply another regional event at the same level of prestige as the Césars or Bodils (which we never consider; though I suspect less for their regional nature and more for their not-being-in-English). GRAPPLEX22:22, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support per ITNR once the awards are given out and article is updated. If this shouldn't be an ITNR event, that can be discussed on that page. 331dot (talk) 23:19, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support notability as an awards show that the international film industry does care about. Article however needs some substantial prose. The only section currently in sentences, the lead, is basically a un-bulleted list. --LukeSurltc23:27, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Consensus at ITN/R never established by discussion, and so invalid. One of many second level national awards, linguistic systemic bias to include this over others. Wait until the Oscars. Kevin McE (talk) 23:29, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a little more sympathetic to your position here, as it seems that this has not been on ITNR here nearly as long as the soccer tournament below has been on it; but I still feel that it would be better if you solicited consensus to remove it. 331dot (talk) 23:57, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Note (for others' benefit): As explained in that discussion, the Africa Cup of Nations was placed between the Grammy and BAFTA items to avoid displaying two consecutive blurbs about entertainment awards. —David Levy00:45, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Withholding support until I have some prose about the match to support. Need something to judge, and there's nothing about the actual match itself as of my writing this. --Jayron3220:31, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, as you know, an invalid oppose, since it's ITN/R. Your only valid opposition would be (a) to remove it from ITN/R or (b) continually object to the quality of the update. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:58, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing invalid about it at all: ITN/R listing has been overturned on importance grounds here before. ITN/R is not set in stone, and its assumption that something is to be considered important enough to post every time it happens is open to challenge, especially as it was posted there with no demonstrable consensus. Note that even the template says "generally considered important enough": no absolutes, no prohibitions. Kevin McE (talk) 21:22, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Did exactly what you suggested below, got reverted twice. So, do people actually want to argue why a tournament that only 1 of the top 20 teams in the world were eligible for should be regarded as important, or are they just going to hide behind a declaration that has no evidence of any consensus at all? Kevin McE (talk) 22:13, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Obvious Support as ITN/R, but as usual suggest blurb be changed to "Nigeria defeats Burkina Faso..." "... concludes with Nigeria defeating Burkina Faso 1-0..." to avoid the usual ENGVAR issues. Black Kite (talk) 21:01, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wouldn't that also introduce an ENGVAR issue (defeat vs defeats). I believe "X concludes with Y defeating Z" is the neutral wording, isn't it? I don't pay attention as much as I probably should. GRAPPLEX21:03, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Frankly, who really cares? Post it however the US want, it won't be a big deal to the BritEng readers, the current blurb is fine, or add an "s", just please, please don't spend hours debating it here. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:09, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Finalists ranked 52nd and 92nd in the world, only 1 team from world top 20 in the tournament, and none higher than 14th: nowhere near the top competitive level of the sport. ITN/R addition made with no discussion, so cannot claim weight of consensus. Kevin McE (talk) 21:22, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Invalid oppose since it's ITN/R. Seek its removal from there. Or prove the update inadequate. (Please note: don't shoot the messenger. Sorry about that. Or remove it from ITN/R in the same manner it was added?) The Rambling Man (talk) 21:42, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's immature to oppose something because the finalists are low-ranked national teams. There is no difference between a higher or a lower-ranked team winning the same crown. Last year we posted 80-something ranked Zambia winning the championship.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:35, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's irresponsible to claim it is top level if only 1 of the top 20 teams are permitted to be in the tournament. Please present your reason for saying it is important. Kevin McE (talk) 22:48, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Your argument is geographically restricted, as it's the African Cup in question and only national teams from this continent are eligible to enter the tournament, so it's pretty lame to say that only one out of 20 is permitted to play on the tournament. Moreover, the FIFA ranking is completely based on mathematical calculations and is viewed with lower regard in the last years. More importantly, FIFA as a governing body of football invests and allocate too much resources in the development of football in Africa. As for the importance of the news, it tops as one of the main sport stories at most of the media portals.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:02, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My argument isn't geographically restricted, the tournament is. Restriction reduces notability. Just as the European Aussie rules championship is geographically restricted, and thus does not have teams of a high enough standard to claim that that event is notable here. Kevin McE (talk) 23:20, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think one can be confident that the Copa América will include a reasonable proportion of the highest ranked teams in the world for the foreseeable future. I would indeed support the removal of other geographically restricted tournaments, including the AFC Asian Cup and the CONCACAF Gold Cup, which similarly have none of the top ten teams in the world, and few of the top 20 or 30. Would you favour the inclusion of the OFC championship at ITN/R, which is the logical consequence of your position? Kevin McE (talk) 00:03, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Conclusion of a continental championship in football is notable enough for inclusion. Note that we always follow a precedence in posting these events and the fact that football is given more importance compared to any other sport.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:23, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Not included in ITN/R, but posted on the main page. You've apparently misunderstood my point. Please check that we posted the conclusion of the same championship several times before, and we did the same with the conclusion of EURO and the Asian Cup.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:29, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This has not always been posted, neither has the Asian or Oceanian championships. Simply being a continental championship is insufficient. Kevin McE (talk) 22:48, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support per ITNR. Other continental soccer championships are listed there as well; we should list all of them or none of them as a matter of fairness. If it shouldn't be there, it should be discussed in terms of removing it from ITNR. 331dot (talk) 21:53, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Fairness is certainly an issue; one continent should not be treated different than another just because of our judgement that one tournament is less notable than another. 331dot (talk) 22:14, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm glad you appreciated it. I thought notability was related to level of play. Why is one continental tournament the "top level" and not another? 331dot (talk) 22:35, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The placement of a nation in these tournaments is not based on skill, but geography. If nations were assigned to continental tournaments based on skill, you would have a point. 331dot (talk) 23:10, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
So you do not believe that notability is related to level of play? This is simply biggest fish in small (in footballing terms) geographically defined pool. Kevin McE (talk) 23:33, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I believe that if we are going to post one continental-level tournament, we should post them all and not make judgement calls about them. 331dot (talk) 23:37, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
So if the Top 20 teams start coming out of the African tournament and not Europe, you will call for removing the Europe tournament and adding the African one? 331dot (talk) 00:20, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I did not accuse you of personal bias; my point is that it would be better to be consistent instead of constantly reviewing which tournaments are "important" and which aren't, because it can change; or, they should all be removed and just the World Cup should be there. 331dot (talk) 11:43, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support notability - I'm surprised this is necessary. It's a continental championship. While maybe the OFC Championship could be argued to be a bit trivial, Africa is a big football-obsessed continent of a billion people. This championship was a big deal in Africa, and indeed elsewhere in the world too. LukeSurltc21:56, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That it was Nigeria vs. Bukina Faso in the final, rather than the higher-ranked teams that fell in earlier rounds was an upset, yes. This doesn't make it not the premier championship of African football. It's hugely in the news for a billion people, and we're developing a nice article to go with it. If we have a decent article, and we make a special exemption to our rules not to post a story because it relates to Africa, that is damning for us as a community. Think about it. LukeSurltc22:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
But no very high ranked teams were knocked out in the earlier rounds. Cote d'Ivoire (14th in FIFA rankings) were highest rated, and are not world leaders in the sport. I resent the implication that my opposition is because it is Africa: it is because it is second rate football. Kevin McE (talk) 22:48, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose until we have a link at ITNR showing where this was ever discussed and consensus achieved to add the item to that list. μηδείς (talk) 22:11, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, they probably should. ITN/R, if it should exist at all, should only be for items over which we can be absolutely confident that importance would find consensus every time. Very little argument for importance of this event, and many others at ITN/R, has ever been put forward. (You're not really suggesting that Olympic football is ITNworthy, are you?) Kevin McE (talk) 22:17, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This oppose is has nothing to do with the notability of the Cup of Nations. Why should we omit an item for the thousands of people who read the main page until a procedural and technical dispute is resolved to some user's satisfaction on a page 99.99% of readers will not see? --LukeSurltc22:24, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Not suggesting that it be prohibited, just saying that it should not be waved through without importance being agreed. Does anyone object to the principle that importance should actually be discussed and determined by consensus? This has never been determined. Kevin McE (talk) 22:37, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This vote should not be counted at all since it deals with something not related to the nomination. The last bullet in the tutorial on the top of this page reads "Do not oppose an item because it is not on WP:ITN/R." We really don't need votes that point out to issues that should be resolved elsewhere. Please try to find another reason to oppose.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:40, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Because the only tournament ranked above this in terms of African football is the World Cup and you know that; please explain why you're badgering editors so relentlessly about this item. GRAPPLEX22:51, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
So why is African football necessarily to be shown at ITN? The standard is demonstrably not particularly high. Must we show the Oceania championships (highest eligible team 91st in the world, just behind the 40th European country), because "the only tournament ranked above this in terms of [Oceanian] football is the World Cup"? Kevin McE (talk) 23:20, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No item is "necessary" and I never claimed as much. I support this item, not demand its posting, because I feel a tournament ranked just below possibly the largest sporting event there is seems quite notable to me, and yes that does mean I would show the same support for an Oceanian equivalent thank you. And as has been pointed out to you, it doesn't matter half a damn what team is ranked where, the event is still just as notable regardless. GRAPPLEX23:23, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support It's not just about the quality of the teams involved in a tournament. It's also about the amount of news coverage. This tournament receives extensive coverage in the international media. Not only is it very big in Africa, there's widespread interest elsewhere. Plus, of course, it's ITN/R (the inappropriate removal without discussion having been reverted), so arguments against its significance are irrelevant. Neljack (talk) 23:11, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Article needs a prose update detailing the final match, so I'm removing the ready tag. However, the rest of the article is in good shape. SpencerT♦C23:38, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This event gets a fair bit of global coverage, on the BBC, Al Jazeera, Russia Today. It is the top sporting event on continent of Africa. It features globally known sportsmen. I am also highly confused as to how this was taken off of ITNR at this moment.--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:29, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
NOTE. Since no one noticed my note above, this should go up when and if the prose update is sufficient. Prior practice has been to have a prose summary of the game itself. There's a huge amount of graphics in the middle of the article, then the first prose about the gameplay is "Despite the narrow margin of victory, Nigeria's win was considered a comfortable one, and the outsiders Burkina Faso were described as looking tired." In other words, the earliest text about the game is about the end of the game, and there's still no overall game summary. In all of the debate above and on the ITN talk page where people have tried to one-up each other as to who is more elitist, no one has bothered to actually make sure there's an article worth putting up on the main page from a textual point of view. I'm going to bold this because it is vital for everyone here to read: We need to spend less time worrying about the importance of an event, and more time worrying about the quality of the text of the Wikipedia article. Even if this gets shot down and never makes the main page, the pride in having helped make a really good article should be its own reward. Instead we have this same old tired debate over who's entirely personal opinion of what's important enough for the main page taking up hours of debate. If just one person who claimed, above, to care about Wikipedia's coverage of non-European soccer actually spent the same amount of time fixing up the article rather than debating with people over opinions they have no intention of changing, we'd have an FA quality article about this event. Jayron32 out. <drop mic> <storm off stage>. --Jayron3202:23, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Jayron the game summary seems fine. It refers to events in both halves and is referenced. I don't see the problem. I believe it's ready.--Johnsemlak (talk) 02:52, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
we should seek to improve all articles, even FAs. The question here is whether the article nominated has a sufficient update at this time and I believe it has.--Johnsemlak (talk) 03:06, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Question I thought there was an ITNR discussion that concluded that any reasoning predicated on "top level of the sport" is invalid (or something like that)? –HTD03:38, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My memory is there was a discussion earlier to end the policy of giving ITNR status automatically to the top competition of every 'major sport', and it was in fact agreed to end this rule. After which, Hurling was in fact removed from ITNR. I don't remember it every being ruled that the argument itself is invalid, just that it didn't mean automatic inclusion.--Johnsemlak (talk) 01:25, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Added a little more to match summary. Think the article has enough content, see no copyvio problems, and is definitely a notable event - probably Africa's biggest sporting event this year. - Shuddetalk09:14, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Updated Comment: This year's Kumbh Mela, had been notable, for the unprecedented figures of humanity attending the event and the "Holy Sunday Dip" respectively, in human history ever. Editors please help in making the article look good and up-to wiki standards.Regards, theTigerKing09:51, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support The sheer number of people at the Kumbh Mela means that it may well have been postable even without this tragedy. Article is however quite fragment at the current time and does not mention the stampede. There does exist an article for the 1954 Kumbh Mela stampede which may be an applicable template. LukeSurltc21:11, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Y'know what? I'd create the article in the mainspace, rather than go through the articles for review process. I think AfR will be too slow for our purposes here, and having in it the mainspace will mean community editing is more likely to occur. LukeSurltc21:38, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Significant but I'm witholding support until the article quality improves. The referencing is atrocious and the article needs fixing before we can put this on the main page. --Jayron3218:57, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Is there any news with reactions/tributes? The AP story is basically an obituary, there's nothing I can see with which to expand the death section of the article. LukeSurltc23:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Not Updated Although this article has been expanded by over 1,000 bytes on the death and in references that were previously missing [14] it is most certainly not updated by five sentences of prose in the death section or elsewhere. It looks like another otherwise-supportable death nom that will die on the vine of neglect without further work. μηδείς (talk) 02:28, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Note: I've removed the ready tag, as the article still has an orange level tag that needs to be resolved. The overall level of referencing of the article is WELL below what should be minimally acceptable for main page. --Jayron3219:51, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Only one section totally lacked references, I have hidden-commented it out and added a note to the talk page. There are no citation needed tags in the rest of the article--and the update is well referenced. So I have removed the page level tag, and am going to remove the unready notice Jayron placed. If specific claims need tagging that should be done per item at the article. μηδείς (talk) 21:05, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Look, I want this topic posted to RD as much as the next person, moreso even, but this is not the sort of article I would want on the main page. There's very spotty referencing, it isn't one section, it's a complete mess. There's very little in the way of decent references for much of the text of the article. Information about his wife (Hello, BLP) is almost entirely unreferenced, statements regarding supposed records he held and results of his matches is unreferenced. An occasional citation needed tag is one thing, but this article should NOT go on the main page in the state it is in. Again, this person's death should be on the main page RD section. This article is a piece of shit not worthy of recognition on the main page. We need to separate the difference between people notable enough for the main page and articles which would embarrass Wikipedia if they made the main page. If you want, I can tag every problematic statement with a [citation needed] tag. Experienced editors who are here should recognize them, but I guess I can't assume anything. --Jayron3221:10, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nice tone. Maybe fix things you have issues with rather than emote all over ITN? Your enthusiasm is commendable but claiming an article to be a "piece of shit" without actually doing anything about it is properly lame. Perhaps take a break, it's clearly getting to you. By all means go over every article featured on the main page today and tag them with {{cn}}'s, that's very helpful. Isn't it? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:16, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You should not use strawman arguments, since I've never claimed that every single item on the main page needs every single statement referenced. Regarding my tone: When I didn't use obscenities, people felt didn't think this article had any major problems. I should not have used the word shit. However, if my using a word like shit makes you believe that the article is a decent article, I am not sure what to say about that. The article doesn't magically become decent because I said "shit". Look, I would like to fix the issues. I don't read chinese or have access to the information. Presumably, someone else does. That doesn't mean I will accept unreferenced, potentially BLP-violating information to go on the main page. Also, I don't oppose articles with one or two cn tags; that's not the issue here. The issue is that THIS article is not of a standard worthy of the main page. The bulk of the text is unreferenced, has been marked with CN tags, notes have been made on the article talk page which itemizes exactly what references are needed and why. I don't know what else to do. --Jayron3221:27, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Quite why this is the only article on or destined for the main page you feel needs to be tagged throughout in such a manner is curious. But as you said, until you started using the "shit" word, most of us were content to forgo your perceived shortcomings of the article for timeliness. Best bet seems to be to delete all the contentious material with which you've taken umbrage, and leave a semi-stub that can still meet quality requirements and also the "in the news" (i.e. it's still in the news) criteria. Looks like we've missed that though. Hay ho, back to Wikinews, eh?! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:37, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Look, as I stated before to you, this isn't about me. If you feel I have behaved in a way that deserves sanction, WP:ANI is available for you to use. None of that makes the article decent enough for the main page. --Jayron3221:53, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Medeis. I've noticed the work you have been doing, and it's fantastic. Thank you for taking the time to see this through. --Jayron3223:26, 11 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting Support Medeis deserves a lot of credit for putting in a Yeoman's effort in bringing this up to snuff. Certainly more credit than I do for merely sitting back and taking shots at it. Well done. --Jayron3205:03, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. And while basking in the glow of that praise let me point out that regardless of my opinion of those nominations, Grammy Award for Record of the Year and Allahabad Stampede need minimal work to get them postready, but the people who've nominated (and supported) them have done about diddly to make them compliant. This isn't rocket science, amigos. A google search, four more referenced sentences, and you are there. μηδείς (talk) 05:54, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'd not go as far as making demands of people, everyone has different skills, and if something gets nominated, others are allowed to pitch in where they have the skills. However, I won't stand for being badgered merely because I noted problems with the article. Yeah, I went a bit over the line with my tone above, and I shouldn't have done that, but when someone raises issues with the article, either fix it or be silent on it; shooting the messenger for the message is rarely helpful. --Jayron3206:19, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Information Minister Omran al-Zoubi makes an official statement, extending an invitation to the opposition for dialogue aimed at achieving a political solution to the conflict. (Al Jazeera)
Five people are killed when a small airplaneCessna crashes on the side of the runway at Brussels South Charleroi Airport in Belgium after suffering difficulties on take-off. The incident forced the airport to shut down for six hours, before resuming services. (Reuters)(BBC)
Former Canadian navy intelligence officer Jeffrey Delisle is jailed for 20 years after pleading guilty to selling classified NATO information to Russia. (BBC)
Nominator's comments: Major earthquake effecting three major South American countries. Being reported worldwide with speculation on the Carnival festivities occurring at the same time. --User:Ravivyas16 (talk) 03:33, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose an earthquake happening on Earth? That's not extraordinary enough. Plus this has a blatant systemic bias towards people on Earth. Think of all the non-Earthlings who could care less. Hot Stop(Talk)03:57, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Thank goodness, but the earthquake caused no deaths, earthquakes are also quite common around the world I dont see how this one differs or stands out. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 04:01, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - The earthquake had no fatalities, not even major damage. Although 7.0-magnitude is somewhat strong, it just isnt significant enough to be an ITN blurb. Michaelzeng7 (talk) 04:07, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Major winter storm having wide and significant effects, both in the US and Canada, with high snowfall totals and large number of power outages. Being covered internationally. Open to suggestions on the blurb. --331dot (talk) 11:51, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Objections about an event being in one country (in this case, two)are invalid; over 600,000 power outages, thousands of flights cancelled affecting tens of thousands of people, roads clogged with cars, record snowfall, states of emergency declared, driving bans; these things are not "unclear repercussions". 331dot (talk) 12:45, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
When similar disasters happen in China with more than million people being affected, it's usually opposed by the fact it represents only a small portion of the total population. I would rather use the same rationale here. The figures you mention as relevant are simply niche compared to the total population in the affected region.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:44, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I would support listing such disasters in China; even if I didn't, this storm has shut down a good chunk of the US and is affecting tens of millions, not just a small part of the population. 331dot (talk) 15:05, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the highest ever snow cover is something that was adduced in most of the news covering the storm. But still we need to wait for a while and then agree on the severity of the hit. It's surely induced some damages so far, but it might not end here.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:10, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
wait per Medeis. We've posted other extreme weather events: heat waves in russia, snow storms in europe, tornado outbreaks, etc. 311dot raises several good points, but we should wait until the storm passes. --IP98 (talk) 13:45, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support storm has moved away from heavily populated areas, and the impacts are clear enough. The article is in much better condition already than many posted routinely. With 40 million people impacted by the storm, it is quite newsworthy. JehochmanTalk15:27, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the article reports five car crashes and one heart attack attributed to the storm (by the way it's been named Nemo and the blurb should de changed). The snowfall was heavy, but NE has had three storms like this out of the last four years--it's an expected event. I don't think we reported the recent 6 foot snowfall in Moscow. I am open to changing if there's more news. μηδείς (talk) 17:43, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The blurb should not mention "Nemo", as that is a name applied by The Weather Channel for its own purposes and not an impartial government agency(as hurricane names are); the National Weather Center has specifically said they will not use it, as have some news outlets. This isn't just "heavy" snow, it is record setting snowfall upwards of two and a half feet. I live in the Northeast US and we do not "expect" these types of storms. They are rare occurrences; the last one of this scale was in 1978. I assume you are lumping in the recent hurricanes, but those are entirely different events. 331dot (talk) 17:53, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I was not aware of a 6 foot snowfall in Moscow; I would have supported that as well. As IP98 stated, we have posted other extreme weather events, such as heat waves and tornadoes. 331dot (talk) 17:57, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, had glanced at the Nemo story, assumed it was government-assigned. I live in NY, my family north of Boston--they are out sledding. I am frankly disappointed when we don't get a storm like this at least once a year. In any case the impact seems mostly to have been political gaffes and a fascist overreaction by certain executives waving their orders around. Car accidents and heart attacks in 80 year-olds happen even when it doesn't snow. To see a nor'easter I could support, compare the John Lindsay Storm with dozens of deaths in NYC alone. (here's a link to the "Russian Snow-nami"--turns out Moscow only got ten inches while others got 10 feet.) μηδείς (talk) 18:02, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose I got more than a foot of snow outside my house but i really dont think thats worth posting on ITN... Its a winter storm in winter. -- Ashish-g5519:25, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe you got just a foot, but millions of people got twice, and in some cases, three times that, breaking all-time snowfall records- along with millions who had no power. This isn't some one-off mildly heavy snowfall for a few people or everyone, it has wide-reaching effects and is going to take a long time to deal with. Is the only ticket onto ITN to have large numbers of casualties? I agree that's important, but that leaves out many notable things- and if that's the case, it should be listed as a criteria on this page. 331dot (talk) 19:36, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You have to remember those all-time snow records are for specific towns. Weather records are set every year for the highest or lowest temperature or greatest rainfall or whatever in Poughkeepsie or Piscataway. This is nowhere near the biggest storm ever. I'd concentrate on getting more sourced notable facts into the article, if it turns out 100 disappeared from a hotel on the Maine coast or something else Steven Kingish or Katrina-like this will get support. μηδείς (talk) 20:02, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I am not suggesting that the fact that Portland, Maine smashed their snowfall record(among other places) is notable for ITN, but it is representative of the fact that snowfalls of this scale are rare events; I thought that's what went up on ITN. I guess I just feel that something that affects tens of millions of people, something which caused two state governors to ban any and all road traffic from their highways, etc., is notable; people like to read about events other than those that have large numbers of casualties or deaths. I'm going to back away for a bit now- this will either get posted, or not. 331dot (talk) 20:12, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My problem with it is that its just a winter storm in winter. Nothing significant but snow came out of this. Most major cities get more than this almost every year. I dont think any records were broken for major cities including Toronto, New york, Chicago etc. -- Ashish-g5521:28, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak supportOppose A standard weather phenomenon is not encyclopedic news. --hydrox (talk) 20:37, 9 February 2013 (UTC) ed Seems like it's somewhat unusual weather in this region after all. However, the amount of disturbance to lives of tens of millions of anglophones kinda makes it notable enough for en-wiki.. --hydrox (talk) 01:25, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Three feet of snow over a significant area is not "standard" by any definition I'm aware of. OK, I'm really going away now. :) 331dot (talk) 20:45, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well I don't know how much is that in scientific units, but news sources are talking about a meter. A meter of snow is not a dramatic winter weather, though you seem to be correct that it's somewhat unusual in this particular region (NYT says about once every 10 years). Google for record U.S. snowfalls makes 1 meter (39 inhc) seem nothing unusual. --hydrox (talk) 21:09, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps where you live 3 feet is not rare. But in the United States, more specifically New England, there have only been a handful of snowstorms to produce that much snow, especially in a 24 hour period. TropicalAnalystwx13(talk)23:22, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My oppose still stands, maybe it's an aspect of having grown up with insane amounts of snow. I won't be upset if this ends up being posted, as it is undoubtedly "in the news", but it might be the most overhyped storm ever. RyanVesey01:07, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Are you really that thick-headed? Many locations in Connecticut picked up over 3 feet of snow! Boston received a storm surge of 4.2' feet (4th highest ever observed) and a snowfall total of 24.9" (5th highest ever observed). Portland, ME broke it's all-time snowfall record with 31.9" and a countless number of other cities across the region experienced their top 5 snowfall. Over half a million people were left, and are still left, without power, and thousands upon thousands of airline flights were cancelled. Several states were basically shut down for the duration of this system. NOTHING about this storm, NOT ONE ASPECT, was overhyped. TropicalAnalystwx13(talk)01:37, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, it was probably unnecessary, I struck it out if that makes it any better, lol. But in all seriousness, nothing about this storm was overhyped and to say so is completely off-base. TropicalAnalystwx13(talk)01:45, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose As a Massachusetts resident (who luckily happens to be in Maryland while all that snow fell), I can say from experience that this is nothing new. We get at least 1-2 industrial-strength snowstorms every year, amongst the 3-5 normal snowstorms we get on average. Sometimes even in October. This is a classic example of the media needing some kind of major story to run in order to get people to watch. Way overhyped. Those from the New England area will know that snowstorms like this are nothing new. Now if 4+ feet of snow had fallen, that's different, but we annually get a big snowstorm that drops down a foot or so of snow every year. It's to be expected. Changing to Support, as we have posted lesser storms in the past, like this one. I still don't think it has caused enough impact, but the line of what is ITN-worthy for snowstorms in general is entirely left up to interpretation, and my opinion may be biased due to the fact that I've lived through lots of big snowstorms like these. -- Anc516 (Talk ▪ Contribs) 21:52, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That supposedly "lesser" snowstorm resulted in 39 fatalities. I would support that being posted, but not this in the absence of a significantly higher death toll. Neljack (talk) 01:55, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support w/ Comments - Are you guys being serious right now? The storm has plunged hundreds of thousands into cold and darkness, caused innumerable traffic accidents, cost state and local governments millions, stranded hundreds or thousands of drivers, destroyed what will probably be hundreds of millions of dollars in property, forced the evacuation or rescue of scores of residents, led to the cancellation of thousands of airline flights, caused uncountable millions in lost business revenues, pretty much brought most of the Northeast to a standstill even while parts of that region still struggle to cope with the aftermath of Sandy, who butchered the area just over three months ago, produced some of the largest observed storm surge values in history in many cities across the Northeast (most notably Boston at 4.21'), and dumped some of the highest snowfall totals ever recorded across many major cities, and you guys are worried about it not having a high enough fatality number? Completely absurd! TropicalAnalystwx13(talk)22:06, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Snowstorms happen in the Winter. New England residents expect it and are well prepared for it. Sometimes power is lost if the storm is really bad, but overall life carries on. I grew up watching as historic snowfalls occur, and the impact is relatively minor compared to the likes of Sandy (which did not affect these areas as much as it did in the Mid-Atlantic states). -- Anc516 (Talk ▪ Contribs) 22:21, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
...and hurricanes happen in the Summer. That does not mean they're not newsworthy. This system will go down as one of the worst in recorded history for many, many cities across New England, despite whether or not residents were prepared and regardless of how much impact you personally experienced. TropicalAnalystwx13(talk)22:27, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You can post reliable sources that say the worst in recorded history, and where; the storm is by no means the worst; and we would not post a hurricane that caused a heart attack and half-a-dozen car accidents. μηδείς (talk) 00:47, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'll support it then, seeing as how we have posted lesser snowstorms in the past. I still don't believe it's all that much of a big deal, but maybe I've just been through too many nor'easters to notice the impact. -- Anc516 (Talk ▪ Contribs) 23:43, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Historic Blizzard per above last one was 8 years ago, also may I remind that the storm has not Dissipated yet nor has damage estimates come in yet as it is the death count has risen by at least 3 since this was first posted here. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 00:29, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Huge storm with impacts for millions. Death toll growing. Dominating story in the news cycle in numerous venues. I think this is a good ITN blurb that leads to a good article that many Wikipedia readers will appreciate reading. I am unimpressed by the opposes. Jusdafax00:59, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I am sorry that you are unimpressed by the opposes but I could say I am unimpressed by the supports; It may well be dominating the news cycle in the affected areas, but outside of those areas it just gets a brief mention if any at all, in the overall scheme of winter weather it is not actually very significant at the moment lots of other places have got more than average snow this winter, most of Europe did at the start of January, Moscow for example is looking at its coldest winter in 20 years (see here). The current version of the article is full of those annoying yellow "This section requires expansion." and {{citation needed}} which as it stands would stop it's posting anyway. LightGreenAppletalk to me01:18, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Where do you live? I'm not sure looking out your window is an adequate assessment of the storms impact over such a large area. --IP98 (talk) 01:42, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I get that it an unusual weather event that has caused lots of disruption, but if we posted all of them - as opposed to those that cause lots of deaths - ITN would be full of them. There are too many disasters to post those that are just disruptive, without being particularly deadly (save in exceptional circumstances). This, like most highly disruptive but not very deadly weather events, dominates the news where it is occurring but is not a particularly big story internationally. Neljack (talk) 02:02, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's on the front page of the BBC's page, as well as Le Monde, Xinhua, as well as the other sources listed in the nom; clearly it is a big international story. 331dot (talk) 02:20, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose A forecasted blizzard New England in the winter months, with no major death toll? Nope. Sandy's one thing - a late season hurricane that far north is unusual, but snowfall in Feb. in the NE US is not. --MASEM (t) 02:16, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Three feet over such a wide area is unusual, especially in Long Island and southern New England, but really everywhere. The last storm of this scale was in 1978. 331dot (talk) 02:27, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Objection We supposedly have 14 casualties, mostly from car crashes, two or three from heart attacks, and two carbon monoxide poisonings. In the area that was affected by snow, how many car crashes, heart attacks during yard work, and carbon monoxide poisonings would there have been regardless of the storm? This is not people crushed by earthquakes, drowned in storm surges, impaled by flying tornado debris, or killed in any way directly attributable to the storm. Not a single death. μηδείς (talk) 02:18, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
One CO poisoning was a child in a car where snow was blocking the tailpipe; the car crashes were due to the poor weather conditions which wouldn't have been there at that moment if not for this storm. The deaths aren't the only notable aspect of this. 331dot (talk) 02:24, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment it is beyond obvious that this is a significant event, the worst storm to hit the region since at least 1978. It is front page news thoughout the United States. The oppose votes have no merit or logic other than WP:IDONTLIKEIT. I request that an admin immediately mark this for listing, and that we move on to the next story. JehochmanTalk02:38, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Also front page or close to it news around the world. This isn't the page to suggest entries for the "injury, death, and destruction box" of the main page, it's the "in the news" box and this is in the news in most of the world; while injury and deaths are an indicator of scale and importance of an event; it's not the only criterion. 331dot (talk) 02:46, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is dumbfounding. This story seems to be making headlines around the world -- it is most certainly in the news -- but the objections to posting this are...
It's hype. It is not our problem to decide that things that are in the news should not be. And I'd hardly call a storm that dumps more than two feet of snow in major cities, causing the disruption that has occurred, "hype". Oh, but to some people, travel disruption does not a story make:
Not enough people died. This is a blizzard, not an earthquake. Escaping death from a snowstorm predictable days in advance is not challenging for able-bodied people, so long as they're not venturing on the roads -- something that would be unlikely to occur, considering driving was banned on all Connecticut and Massachusetts roads for the first time since 1978. (Oh, but that's not significant, because we need people to die in order for events to be significant.) Note that the North American blizzard of 2003, ranking third-highest on the Northeast Snowfall Impact Scale, was directly responsible for only two deaths. The scale and impact of snowstorms should primarily be measured by other factors.
Not even a meter of snow fell. You can't be serious. A bit of context would be nice. Not everyone lives in Scandinavia or northern Canada or Siberia; the amount of snow seen in parts of New England during this storm is unusual in the vast majority of the world. And we're not even talking about three inches in Los Angeles; we're talking about a once-in-a-decade storm for a region that is used to seeing a significant amount of snow each winter. That you or your neighbors would say/are saying 'ho hum' to this type of storm doesn't change that fact that for the area affected this is a major storm.
During winter, it snows. I don't even know how to respond to this.
If this happened in China, we wouldn't post it. This is the classic ITN oppose rationale, and it is unsubstantiated by what actually transpires here. Our desire to counter systematic bias (which should not be in ITN's mission, mind you) goes so far that it creates counter-systematic bias. I'd venture to guess that we'd actually be much more willing to post this if it occurred in China, because we couldn't make the claim that this is only getting press because it's in an Anglophone country. Note, for example, in the Solomon Islands earthquake nomination below, we had people saying that it would have been posted [faster] if the area struck were somewhere closer to the U.S. and Europe. Surely, if this had occurred there, we'd get people opposing because if it had occurred in the South Pacific, we'd never post it.
Honestly, folks. I don't understand what's so difficult about this. While this may not be the biggest story in the world right now, this is making news in many sources around the world. This is something people will be looking for, and the article on this event is shaping up to be quite decent. Whether you believe the media is wrong to cover it is irrelevant. Whether you live in a place that sees three feet of snow every hour (congratulations) is irrelevant. The minimum death threshold in your mind is irrelevant. This is a story that's in the news that many of our readers will be interested in. Case closed. This should be posted. -- tariqabjotu03:08, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The criteria for ITN are "the quality of the updated content and the significance of the developments described in the updated content". They do not say that anything that gets sufficient news attention must be posted. Rather we have to make a judgment of the significance of an event. The extent of news coverage can be evidence of that, but only evidence; it's not conclusive. We are entitled to decide that this is over-hyped. There are lots of things that are top international stories, but are considered too ephemeral or otherwise insignificant to post here. For instance, Gen. Allen's comments about ISAF being on the road to victory in Afghanistan are above this storm on the BBC News main page, but would never get posted here because we rightly judge that comments or speeches by public figures, however prominently they may be featured in the media, are generally too ephemeral and insignificant to be posted. The media also suffers from systemic bias. You may not think we should worry about systemic bias, but Wikipedia has recognised that it needs to be combated. Thus we are not free to disregard this bias, and cannot just rely on the media given its prevalence there. Neljack (talk) 03:27, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but our judgment call should be based on what readers are likely to be looking for information on. They are unlikely to go on Wikipedia, either now or ever, to find what Gen. Allen said about the ISAF. They are, however, likely to come here to find information on this storm (and that will likely continue to be the case into the future). And if you read WP:CSB, you'll see the "countering systemic bias" concept is intended to address gaps in our article coverage, not insist that Main Page sections (especially one titled "In the news") post or not post items because we have too many or not enough articles from specific regions. -- tariqabjotu03:50, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Why did you insist on running this discussion under Hot Soups ready note? I thought it was an honest mistake (ctrl-end + comment + click save). Sorry, I'm not very smart... --IP98 (talk) 03:27, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Tariq, can you show one single source that rates this storm on the "Northeast Snowfall Impact Scale"? One? Every blizzard has its area of maximum impact--but this is not a 24" storm in the entire NE. There are plenty of blizzards in which trees fall through houses, people freeze in their cars and houses. Not Here. You simply claim opposes are in bad faith or especially not based on IDON'TLIKEIT. This is a big storm but tomorrow the LAPD sniper or something will be on the front page. If this still is we can post it then. μηδείς (talk) 03:29, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, because storms are assessed on the scale well after the event, based on the population affected and snow totals. That's how the scale works. -- tariqabjotu03:25, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I would say counting the areas effected, the number of deaths, and the amount of snow produced this more than qualifies, plus the storm had not faded out yet so its not over. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:33, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Medeis, I am not responding to you anymore as you insist on adhering to poor discussion etiquette, posting in the wrong place (and objecting when someone politely corrects you) and adding substantial information to a comment even after the addressee has responded to it. Take my comment as you like. I know you don't agree, and this looks likely to be posted without your consent. -- tariqabjotu03:38, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Consent? I am fairly sure you could have posted this yourself, and I would not have complained. You cannot fault me for asking you for a source regarding the very criterion you chose to give. And I certainly don't apologize for getting pissed of at 98 for causing me three edit conflicts losing my posts twice with his pointless gamesmanship. A ready marking is not some part of a thread whose relative position matters. μηδείς (talk) 03:44, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I realize this is a closed topic now, but "Gamesmanship"? I tried to correct what I saw was an honest mistake. You were replying to a thread below a different thread. Then you posted some angry caps lock comments, but I've no idea why. Heres a simple edit conflict resolution trick: before clicking save, copy your text to the clipboard. It's Ctrl-C on windows and PC GNU/Linux, and I'm sure Mac has some shortcut or other for it. --IP98 (talk) 17:39, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support I was unsure earlier, but I've been looking at Medeis' statements in opposition, and I can't find a justification for anything he says and I can't find anything to refute the statements of Tariqabjotu or Tropicalanaylist. RyanVesey03:29, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you all for the spirited discussion. Keep in mind that severity of a storm isn't just to total snow or the total deaths. This storm had high winds, up to 90 mph, and snow fell at an incredible rate. In parts of CT it was 4" - 5" per hour. 1" per hour is heavy snow. Bridgeport CT had 30" of snow; the previous record was 17" something like 100 years ago. Tonight temperatures will fall to single digits Fahrenheit. For the hundreds of thousands of snowbound people who still have no power or heat, it is an incredibly miserable experience. We can do our small part by providing a concise summary of all the facts in one convenient place. JehochmanTalk03:50, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support My initial impulse was to oppose on the basis that snow in the Northeastern US isn't newsworthy, but this blizzard meets the criteria. There's too many subjective opposes in this discussion, enough to convince me to support. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:59, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support - This is pretty much the center of attention for all media sources out there. There is a death toll, and this storm wasn't your average snow flurry. Michaelzeng7 (talk) 04:11, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's just not true. It's not on the top section of the BBC News website or the Xinhua website, and only merits a minor story on the world page of The Guardian website. Neljack (talk) 04:30, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support I resolved the orange expansion notice for Canada (the storm is still affecting that area), and the similar notice for the meteorological history is basically just to copy information from the lead...which appears to be happening at the moment. The current semi-lack of full meteorological history doesn't compromise the article, since it's in the lead. Other than that, just general notability strongly suggests that this should be an ITN item. (Edit: And the second orange-flagged expansion noticed is fixed now as well.) – 2001:db8:: (rfc | diff) 04:38, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Blurb The current blurb can be shortened quite a bit to "A blizzard (satellite image pictured) disrupts transportation and electricity to hundreds of thousands in the Northeastern United States and parts of Canada" without losing any of the current information. μηδείς (talk) 19:21, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: The Indian parliament, attacks main convict was hanged earlier today in the morning. Kashmir is on the edge. Curfew has been imposed in ten districts. Chief Minister of Jammu and Kashmir monitoring law and order situation of the valley- Kashmir. India-Pakistan relations were on a boil following the attacks. The event is being featured in major publications and is trending in Google News [US, UK, Austrlia]. The location of the attacks, the aftermath of the attacks should be considered in totality before forming an opinion on the ITN candidacy. I don't think that "the culmination of a judicial process" makes any "execution" ITNC unworthy. Regards, theTigerKing 03:30, 9 February 2013 (UTC) Regards, theTigerKing03:30, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose He confessed. We simply don't do executions of confessed murderers. Neither would we even list this as a recent death ticker. μηδείς (talk) 03:36, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
He was the mastermind/plotter of the Indian Parliament attacks. And since when, "executions of confessed murderers" are not considered for ITN?Regards, theTigerKing04:23, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You might change this to "The execution of Afzal Guru for his role in the 2001 Indian Parliament attack sparks riots (or a curfew, or whatever)" and give support for that if you want this posted. But no, we don't normally post executions, and even those of people who proclaim their innocence aren't usually posted. μηδείς (talk) 04:34, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The notability lies in the attacks on the Parliament of India and not on preventive steps taken to maintain law and order situation.Regards, theTigerKing07:16, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The attacks on the Parliament were 11 years ago: they cannot be claimed as the main story of what is in the news now. Enactment of court decision is routine. Oppose, review if protests have a major impact. Kevin McE (talk) 09:25, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ajmal Kasab was convicted for the 2008 Mumbai attacks. That was in November 2008. The event featured in ITN. The Supreme Court of India upheld his death sentence. A blurb was nominated at that time which related his sentencing with the attacks. The consensus was to put it on hold until executed. He was executed in December 2012 and this featured in ITN. What made it notable was the causalities reported from 50+nations. Was there a fallout because of his hanging? The answer is unequivocal No! Neither there were any protests nor did the hanging have any impact. Now, lets cut short to this nomination. It does not intend to nominate the event which happened in the past. So the question is what makes this execution notable? The answer is that the attacks were on the very foundation of a democracy- The Parliament of India. Hence, the execution was covered by the global media. The execution of Dhananjoy_Chatterjee would not have made it to ITN. This is what I personally believe. Just a case by case approach is needed. [Or it could be the posting of Ajmal Kasab in ITN has set a bad precedent.]Regards, theTigerKing14:02, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support The matter has been covered by many international press, and being a "high profile" case which has been connected to "National security of India" this news deserves a place in ITN. AmartyabagTALK2ME05:20, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose. The notable thing would have been this man's sentencing or conclusion of his trial, and additionally the attack was over ten years ago. I'm weak opposing this because the execution does seem to be widely covered, and I would reconsider my opinion if any protests get out of hand or are very widespread. 331dot (talk) 11:33, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb and RD per ITN/DC #1 and #2. Maybe a blurb under ITN/DC #3 if there are significant protests. BTW: some which were not posted include "John Allen Muhammad" and "Minsk Metro bombing convicts". --IP98 (talk) 11:53, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support: He was convicted of being part of a terrorist attack against the parliament of the largest democracy, and of waging war against the country. It was not a simple murder convict. Huge fallout as well. There is a curfew imposed across Jammu and Kashmir. Local private channels have been suspended. Home Ministry has refused to release the body to the family to avoid a funeral procession spectacle. State security forces have been fully deployed. Separatist groups have called for a four-day mourning. Extremely notable execution, IMO. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 13:30, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The notability here is entirely parasitic on the criminal act, which occurred 12 years ago. We don't treat sentences themselves as notable. (John Smith is serving 30 years... would not make ITN.) Other than a nice opportunity for cheering it, the execution of this man who admitted guilt is simply not encyclopedic level news. μηδείς (talk) 17:52, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This is hardly a matter to be cheered. But this execution is similar to that of Kasab (which we posted) and this has received significant international news coverage (national news channels have almost not shown anything else since the Home Ministry announcement yesterday). There has been significant fallout to the execution as well. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 01:49, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose for blurb, strong support for RD ticker. Unless there are major protests, this event just isn't notable enough for a blurb.--xanchester(t)07:00, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
RD inclusion
Support This had been proposed as a ITN blurb story around the execution, which I opposed. We have not established a system for counter-proposals, and this subsection is probably not ideal, but there seems to be some support above for RD inclusion above (Xanchester at least) so it merits discussion apart from the story. Notoriety of individual makes his death worth putting in RD, it is not intended to be only about obituaries of the honourable. Kevin McE (talk) 09:39, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose RD because in this case it's the act of execution that's news, not the act of dying. It seems the same, but hanging != stroke. The protests were limited, with few injuries and no deaths. FWIW I honestly don't think RD is the right tool for the job for an execution, and that any one would need to get a blurb under ITN/DC #3. --IP98 (talk) 12:22, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Removed you from my note at the beginning of the subsection: hope I hadn't misrepresented you there. Nevertheless, I would argue that he meets DC 2: he is internationally regarded as a very important figure in terrorism. Kevin McE (talk) 13:02, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No worries, I actually felt kind of bad for having to contradict you. Honestly, if the article had a paragraph or two explaining how he qualifies for DC #2, I would change to support. --IP98 (talk) 13:06, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose RD As per the last segment of the last line of Kevin. An RD would give the subject a "celebrity status" in the eyes of many (especially me). Its the only reason why I nominated it for blurb only.Regards, theTigerKing15:20, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nine women are shot to death in the Nigerian city of Kano. According to reports, all of them were involved in a polio vaccination policy and were most probably killed by the Islamist movement Boko Haram, which has previously threatened to target those involved in vaccinations. (BBC)
Arts and culture
The cover of the latest edition of Lucy Maud Montgomery's Anne of Green Gables arouses controversy among readers as the orphan with the "very thick, decidedly red hair" and the "much freckled" face is transformed into a blonde, buxom farm girl with come-hither eyes. This follows the recent controversy over a new cover for Sylvia Plath's The Bell Jar which portrays a young woman applying make-up. (The Guardian)
2010–2013 Greek protests: As demonstrations, protests and rallies against the government decisions to close down or downgrade schools and hospitals continue, in Ierapetra, Crete, over 7,000 people, including students, stage a peaceful march, holding candles and torches, to protest the forthcoming closure of the one of two technical schools and the only hospital of the region. (Zougla.gr)
In Tunisia, the funeral of the opposition politician Chokri Belaid takes place as over a million people gather in mourning amid major protests. A general strike is declared. Tunis Airport is closed and all flights suspended. (BBC)
Oppose Apparently it's believed the marker damage will be easily cleaned, and giving this front page coverage would be undue weight the nutjob doesn't deserve. μηδείς (talk) 03:21, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I am not quite sure I get your point, and it's one of my favorite paintings, but apparently easily reparable damage just isn't notable. If you find a source that says it isn't expected to be reparable do post it--it would easily be supportable on that basis. μηδείς (talk) 03:51, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That said, visual art gets very few postings here, could be some good variety. Is there an available English-language source which details the extent of the damage? LukeSurltc10:24, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support. Notable works of art being vandalized in museums is a rare event, though it currently appears the painting was not permanently damaged. Though I do support this, I can understand its not being posted on those grounds. 331dot (talk) 10:18, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support The article is in quite a good shape, and this is certainly covered by news sources currently. I don't see any reason why this shouldn't be displayed on the main page. --Jayron3215:56, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes it's a good article and yes it's a nice image, and yes the painting's something that would be great for the front page. But it's still being reported the damagi will easily be fixed--so the actual news is "28 year old lunatic's marker scrawl will be erased". If we want to change ITN into a second FA ticker that would be fine with me, I'd rather not see articles about soccer matches and bus crashes, and only articles about fine art and scientific exploration and archaeological discoveries. Barring that perhaps we can see what's needed to get the article to good article status (I have never worked on that myself) and put it as a featured article? μηδείς (talk) 17:26, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support There is simply lack of art stories in the ITN and this one appears to fit properly. We don't need to contest the issue of whether it's a world-known painting or not since the notability depends purely on the act of vandalism that has occurred. It's definitely not The Night Watch, Mona Lisa or Girl with a Pearl Earring, but Delacroix is surely famous that one of his foremost works should be considered as worth artistic piece. The fact its damage receives echo on a certain level through the media surely gives another plus to its notability.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:53, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This is a single act of vandalism, which according to The Independent will not be lasting. The article itself currently says it took less than 2 hours to remove "without damaging the original paint"{{cn}} and the painting was back on view the next day. LightGreenAppletalk to me23:28, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose "Lack of art stories" isn't a sufficient reason to post this one. As the damage isn't permanent, then I'm not seeing the significance. This isn't like the theft or record sale price for a painting. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:29, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose not permanent damage. Doesn't matter how famous the piece is (aka mona lisa). If the perpetrator had to defeat some sort of security mechanism to do it (ie bullet proof plexiglass case) then maybe. Agree that is sucks this happened, glad it was restored. --IP98 (talk) 03:15, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I would support if the vandalism was permanent. But since it's easily fixed, the historic impact of the event is minimal. ITN does need more art stories, but this isn't one.--xanchester(t)07:06, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
A diplomatic dispute between Romania and Hungary erupts as a Hungarian government official and the ambassador in Bucharest make commentaries that trigger large criticism from the Romanian side. (Nine O'clock)
A major crisis deepens in Tunisia after the murder of Chokri Belaid. The leading party Ennahda states that it will not accept a new government, even if suggested by its leading member, Prime MinisterHamadi Jebali. In today's clashes at least one person died. (BBC)
Comment. If this is posted, the blurb should be reworded to make clear the information Medeis points out. The current wording suggests that it was either launched from Azerbaijan or constructed there(or both).331dot (talk) 19:41, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose. Any notability of it being their first satellite is cancelled out by the fact that it was launched by the French and built by Americans; they paid someone to build and launch a satellite. If it was either built by them or launched from their territory, it would be ITN worthy, but not as it is now. 331dot (talk) 23:00, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure this won't fly because it's Africa and there's a perception that multiple deaths in an accident is the norm, but a single collision between a bus and lorry has killed over 50 people. I imagine an article is worthy of creation for such a disaster. Worth a thought. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:36, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose not because it's Africa, but because it's just a traffic accident. It's tragic with a high death toll, but that's all. I had considered nominating this one but I thought we were over traffic accidents here and decided not to. --IP98 (talk) 21:39, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, that was 7 people, this is at least 53... odd comparison. Two vehicles collide and kill at least 53 people. You think your link is of any comparative use? The Rambling Man (talk) 22:12, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose per IP98; unless it was more than an accident (like a deliberate action or act of terrorism) the death toll isn't high enough IMO to list in ITN; I would support it if it was closer to triple digits. Also not seeing it being widely reported yet. 331dot (talk) 21:48, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Funny, if 53 people were killed in a bus/lorry crash in downtown Manhattan or in London or in Paris or in Toronto or in Madrid, this wouldn't even being debated, would it? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:51, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I would feel the same way if it was in Manhattan, London, Beijing, Johannesburg, the Moon, Mars, the Andromeda Galaxy, or even across the street from me......the location is irrelevant to me. 331dot (talk) 22:02, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well thank you for your clarification but I'm afraid I doubt it in the extreme. And if a bus/lorry crash occurred on the Moon and you didn't consider it sufficient for ITN, you'd be a liar. Anyway, if an aircraft crashed killing 50 people, in an "accident", not a "deliberate action or act of terrorism", you'd be in favour of posting it. Wouldn't you? The Rambling Man (talk) 22:06, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Pardon my sarcasm but I was just trying to make the point that the location wasn't relevant in my opinion of this event. I still wouldn't be sure about an aircraft accident killing 50, although aircraft accidents are much rarer than traffic accidents. I opposed a recent plane crash that killed only 8 or so due to the low death toll. 331dot (talk) 22:08, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, so a traffic accident involving just two vehicles which has killed over 50 people doesn't make your "notability" bar? Man alive, you live a whole different world from me... I'm glad I live where I live. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:10, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's notable, but it was my understanding that ITN had a global reach, and I don't think (regrettably) that the deaths of 50 people have much influence in a world of 7 billion people. 331dot (talk) 22:20, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
So you have other examples of a two-vehicle crash which killed over 50 people? The population of the world is entirely irrelevant, of course, and maybe I now understand why your oppose is irrelevant because that kind of logic makes no sense at all. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:26, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This page is here to solicit opinions; I gave mine. Feel free to disagree; but my opinion is no less valid than yours and if yours is considered mine needs to be as well. 331dot (talk) 22:29, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"I would support it if it was closer to triple digits". Unless people are standing, the capacities of most (single-decker) buses is about 55, and the capacity of a truck is two or three. So, there's no way this would have been triple digits. -- tariqabjotu22:20, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Dude, a truck hit a bus. 49 people on the bus died, 2 in the truck died. How is this not a tragic traffic accident? Will bus design change world wide? Will the bus or truck manufacturer be sued? Will the UN commission on bus safety issue an international arrest warrant for the operating company president, with that person being tried at the Hague? "ence the notability for the substantial death toll." 100's of thousands of people killed by a tsunami is a substantial death toll, this is a traffic accident. Come on. --IP98 (talk) 01:47, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support 53 deaths isn't "just a traffic accident" a few deaths is just a traffic accident. 53 deaths is a regional tragedy at a very minimum. That said, I'm assuming we'll be linking bus and lorry collide. If we don't, we should include a wikilink to lorry since many of us wouldn't know what that meant. Even still, both the term "lorry" and "truck" seem ambiguous in terms of size, especially since the first image used in the article is this one. Once we find out what type of truck it was, we should update it to say semi-truck (or tractor trailer, take your pick), pickup-truck, dump-truck, or whatever it turns out to be. RyanVesey21:49, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think this is an ENGVAR issue, and I don't think 'lorry' is a problem. I notice that all but one of your proposed alternatives incorporates 'truck'. That said, the terminology is much less important than the story itself. AlexTiefling (talk) 21:55, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What would the term be in Zambia? It is an English-speaking country, we should use whichever term is used there. Can we find a Zambian news source? --LukeSurltc22:55, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Some sources are saying "near Chibombo" rather than Chifamba. Perhaps would be worth determining the two nearest towns along the road in question and placing that information in the article. (i.e. "...occurred on the road between X and Y.") --LukeSurltc 22:46, 7 February 2013 (UTC) --update: looking across the sources, it seems Chibombo is the most used place-of-reference. LukeSurltc23:09, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support iff the article can be extended to a decent length. Generally speaking, outside of known conflict zones, disasters with fatalities of over 40 people are pretty much inherently notable. We may have to wait for a sufficient volume of information to be published in reliable sources before the article is of an adequate level of detail for posting. --LukeSurltc22:15, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've got 5 sentences in, but my food just got here so I'm done for a while. I'm assuming one or some of the images found at this link would be appropriate for the article, right? There's no way of getting a free image. It also looks like we'll need to change the blurb to read a three vehicle accident RyanVesey22:22, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
So far, all the news sources seem to be interpretations on the same AP wire story. Does anyone know of, or have the requisite Google skills to find, any sources of more original information? Zambian news perhaps? It is an anglophone country. --LukeSurltc22:40, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support We regularly post disasters with fewer deaths that this, and a similar accident in a Western country would almost certainly be posted. I am somewhat bemused by the suggestion that a traffic accident that kills 50 people is less notable that an air crash that kills the same number - I'd say traffic accidents that kill 50 or more people are probably rarer than air crashes with that level of fatalities. Neljack (talk) 01:58, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Even though I oppose posting this to the main page, I would like to say well done to Ryan Vessey, LukeSurl and Medeis. From no article to one good enough for MP in just a few hours. Cheers. --IP98 (talk) 02:25, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: A state owned financial institution dissolved, it's promissory notes replaced with bonds backed by the government. I usually oppose updates in the financial crisis, but this one seemed like a big deal .
Weak support - Large corporation dissolved, direct state intervention, and we don't often post business stories (recent Dell posting notwithstanding). But it is only one corporation, and only one nation, which is why my endorsement is not stronger. AlexTiefling (talk) 21:52, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe I'm not the sharpest tool in the box when it comes to financial matters, but the article doesn't fully explain to me as to what this entity was. For the sake of my financially-clueless kin I would ask that this be strengthened before any main page posting. --LukeSurltc22:53, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Two banks, the Anglo Irish Bank and the Irish Nationwide Building Society were merged into the "Irish Bank Resolution Corporation" in 2011, after being taken over by the state in 2009. This is all part of the financial crisis. Basically the "Bank Resolution Corporation" existed to clean up what was left of the other two banks. What I found strange is that it was done with an emergency late night session, though I still can't understand why. --IP98 (talk) 01:41, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps that is where the notability lies? The unexplained suddenness of it. The lack of time given to legislators to even read the thing thoroughly. Section 6 instantly sacked hundreds of people and Section 17 gave additional powers to the finance minister which one Independent member of the Opposition said was likely to be unconstitutional and "a fundamental erosion of parliamentary democracy." It is certainly not an every day event.
Two things: It's still not on the article, and I read on the article "$200 million". I dunno if that's related here, and while that seems a lot, it's dwarfed by the $24 billion Dell buyout that elicited "so what?" and "not interested" responses below. Heck, the ponzi scheme of Aman Futures Group beats this by a a hundred million dollars (12 billion Philippine pesos is about 295 million dollars). –HTD11:29, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax [http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process.
For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents:
In the news toolbox
