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It is truth that Macedonians in Republic of Macedonia regard him as Macedonian, Bulgarians regard him as Bulgarian. If Petrov while still living regarded himself like both of nations (in ethnic sense) it would be NPOV to write Bulgarian/Macedonian (etnic group) or Macedonian (etnic group)/Bulgarian. But what we can do if we can not find some evidences that Petrov had a Macedonian ethnic consciousness? If he fight for Macedonia like one of the local Bulgarians? Then it would be honest to write Bulgarian revolutionary and to specify that in RoM he is regarded like ethnic Macedonian. It is just an oppinion. --AleksandarH20:04, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The key word in the whole text was BULGARIAN!
The english(bulgarian) wikipedia know all about Gorce Petrov, and anything is true. But everyting what macedonian wikipedia will said is falce. Ok, now I know what is the whole. BUGARSKA PROPAGANDA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.125.184.154 (talk) 17:40, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Quotes
I removed the "Quotes" section you can't just make a section for random quotes especially since its obviously from a book. This is POV provided by other users for some reason. Ashkani22:08, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Why not? It's not a random quote, it's a relevant quote expressing the maker's view on a controversial issue. Also, since when are sourced from books quotes in some way ineligible for inclusion? Please don't delete sourced information.Ploutarchos23:00, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No Bulgarian concience in Gjorce's memoires, but Macedonian refering to him and his pupil friends as "We Macedonians" (Nie Makedoncheta or Nie Makedoncite)
In Gjorce Petrov memoires (Bulgarian source) there is no self declaration by Gjorce of being Bulgarian. Even more he writes (page 6) "We the pupils "the macedonians", were more loud (making noise)".
He also writes on (page 64) about the dubious and egocentric (page 66) role of Bulgaria toward the liberation of Macedonia. Due to that Gjorce and his friends adopted stand of self-belief that evolved in idea od self-arming the revolutionaries (page 65) for liberation of Macedonia.
Gjorce is born in Republic of Macedonia, in his memoires has declared as Macedonian and he describes the fight for liberation of Macedonia. He also never mentiones Ilinden-Preobrazenie Uprising, but he writes only about taking part in the uprising on the day Ilinden (page 167-8). (Toci (talk) 22:06, 29 March 2008 (UTC))[reply]
Just to summarize what you did/think. So you take the info in the links for some passages of the text, but other things that are still mentioned in the book, but that you do not like, get a fact tag (basically half of the whole article). --LaveolT00:23, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I add only changes this time. I deleted your source before because it does not says that he declared himself as Bulgarian and Macedonian and Bulgarian are mutually exclusive. He just says in your source that there are different nationalities living in Macedonia. If there are different nationalities and you choose one to attach to him it is rather biased view (Bulgarian POV). Gjorce also makes often distinctions between nasinci, (our people) and bugarin (Bulgarian) and in the time when the Macedonians (nasinci, our people) were usually regarded as Bulgarians by others, meaning member of the Bulgarian church (but you already know that). Bulgarian Exarchate was trying to make a reach in Macedonia in that time and the people were sometimes Bulgarians, sometimes Greeks, sometimes Serbian (depending of the strength of the church in the region). Brailsford writes: "I have heard a witty French consul declare that with a fund of a million francs he would undertake to make all Macedonia French. He would preach that the Macedonians are the descendants of the French crusaders who conquered Salonica in the twelfth century, and the francs would do the rest." (Brailsford also don't mentions Macedonians as separate nationality, but he also don't regard them as pure Serbians or Bulgarians, but a "Slav people derived from rather various stocks, who invaded the peninsula at different periods." (he meant slavic speaking people because he wrote before: "They are not Serbs, for their blood can hardly be purely Slavonic.")
I will add soon how and why Gjorce was murdered. That is described rather vague. He was murdered on an order by Todor Aleksandrov and that is one of the reason why the statue of Todor Aleksandrov is seen offensive and will not stand in Republic of Macedonia (this is a late reply to one of your questions on the other talks). I am sorry if you are emotionally attached to Todor Aleksandrov as figure in IMRO, but he is regarded as assasin of Gjorce Petrov who is one of the most important figures in the national history of Republic of Macedonia. Gjorce was not only hated by Alexandrov, but also by general Concev (Tsontsev) who once said to Gjorce: "Ти си тукъ зло за всички и трѣбва да се махнешъ отъ България!”. Азъ му отговорихъ, че и да съмъ мислилъ да си отивамъ вѫтре, сега нарочно ще стоя тукъ за да прѣча на неговитѣ много пакостни за Македония планове." (EN: ""You are evil for everone here and you should move away from Bulgaria!" Gjorce answered to that: "Even if I was planning to go to tomorrow, I will stay here now intentionally to disturb your malicios plans toward Macedonia.") (Toci (talk) 00:48, 31 March 2008 (UTC))[reply]
To be honest it looks much better now. You've included both POVs for whivh are more than encouraged. I'll try to look up some info mysself. As for Todor Alexandrov's case - the man set the monument in his own yard. Don't you allow private property in the Republic? It's a serious question and might have some really negative results for the country. Every move like moves Bulgaria closer to Greek's position which we both know is not accepted well in RoM. Cheers --LaveolT08:33, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ethnicity
There is a lack of documents in favour of the Macedonian idea.
What is supposed to prove Macedonian ethnicity, in fact proves exactly the opposite.Petrov mentions many times Macedonia and Macedonians, however, they are always used as geographic terms and at the same time as synonyms of Bulgarian, Thracian and Adrianopolitan.Furthermore, in his memoirs Gjorche numerous times determines the revolutionary activity in Macedonia as national liberation and unification struggle of the Bulgarian people and had never ever said even a word about any relation with ancient civilisations and so on.
With all my respect but if our Macedonian friends don't manage to provide us with real reference showing that he had ever expressed ethnic Macedonian identity and considered himself as descendent of the ancient Macedonians, not of the Macedonian Bulgarians, I'll edit the article.
