Here is the empty syntax that I've been using from settlements in BC. It helps get things started more quickly by copy and pasting. Some parameters may need to be changed like Time zone PST to MST and "Settled" may be better changed to "Founded" or "Incorporated". Also, remember to fill in the type of settlement if it is not a city. If you have any questions/problems, ask me on my talk page as I am not going to be watching this one. —MJCdetroit03:22, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi CindyBo. You are off to such a great start on the article Moyie (sternwheeler) that it may qualify to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page under the Did you know... section. Appearing on the Main Page may help bring publicity and assistance to the article. However, there is a five day from article creation window for Did you know... nominations. Before five days pass from the date the article was created and if you haven't already done so, please consider nominating the article to appear on the Main Page by posting a nomination at Did you know suggestions. If you do nominate the article for DYK, please cross out the article name on the "Good" articles proposed by bot list. Again, great job on the article. -- Jreferee(Talk)18:45, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Moyie (sternwheeler)
On 5 July, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Moyie (sternwheeler), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
I've run across that problem a lot, but had no idea what to do with it until I read the answer to your question at the help desk. I'm not sure how many cites is considered many enough to use that template, but I tried it at BC Express (sternwheeler) and it seems to look okay. I imagine it could get to be a bit of overkill, but it's a good solution for now.CindyBotalk06:58, 8 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
A later answer gave an even better approach, using the {{fp|page numbers}} template. I have rejigged the footnote you did at BX (sternwheeler) using this. I hope I didn't get any of the footnotes crossed up. BTW, I notice the BX pub link is a 404. Not sure if it is gone or just down for the moment. I am nominating this as a Good Article as I think it meets WP:WIAGA. --KenWalker | Talk00:29, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the nomination and help with the footnotes, the article does look far better with the footnotes like that and the new ship infobox. I got rid of that dead link, they don't seem to have a site up anymore and it was just a couple more pictures anyway. I've been trying to fix up the footnotes on all my older articles and that new template for page numbers will be great, especially at ones like Omineca Gold Rush which is all basically from different pages of one source.CindyBotalk01:05, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Plus
I noticed when you started a new topic on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ships, you edited the last topic. Rather than scrolling down to the bottom, just use the "+" tab at the top of the page. It prompts you for the new topic and also makes the edit history cleaner. HTH. --J Clear02:43, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I looked at the BX's talk page and I can address the concerns there quite easily, I think. Much of that wording (and raving) is paraphrased from Willis West's book about the BC Express Company and the BX was the pride of their business. And it is honored in Prince George and remembered when the other eleven aren't, but I probably laid it on a bit thick without backing it up. I'll go over my sources here and see what I can improve.CindyBotalk07:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I added more notes and took out the weasel worded raves. I do think it's much better. Although I'm not sure what the reviewer meant by criticisms of the boat. I've never read any criticisms of the BX, but I can't see how to cite that. Certainly Art Downs and Willis West never said a word against her, nor is there any in the local histories written by the settlers or in the local newspapers. Paddle steamers like the BX were idolized by the towns they served because they were the main lifeline to the outside world, as all other means of travel and receiving and shipping goods was horrendously difficult at the time. Even after the GTP was completed, Quesnel still needed paddle steamer service, as can be proven by the fact that the government gave the BC Express Company that subsidy to keep the BX running. So overall there's... no criticisms, but less raving :).CindyBotalk09:58, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The 2a and 2c comments seem to have been addressed. This is an aspect that had not seemed to me to be a problem in the first place but with the comments from another set of expert eyes, it really does improve the tone of the article, more encyclopedic, lends credibility. The dollar references add nicely to the article. I wonder whether steamship companies had to report to any government departments that might have left a record of their finances. You would think that if they received government subsidies, they would have had to prove they needed them. If they were provincial government subsidies there might be something in some archive in Victoria. Is there anything in the sources you have that says whether it was the province or the feds or which ministry etc? I have a daughter in Victoria who I might persuade to go and root around in some archive down there but that likely wouldn't be available within the week. The "There is not much about the criticism of the boat. If there was none, say it and cite it." comment, like you, has me stumped. Is there criticism of other paddlewheelers? Some cite that where a source grumbles about them being slow or unreliable could be cited by comparison but that sounds kind of contrived to me. I have trouble figuring out how one can cite the absence of a comment. It is clear that the GA editor considers this important though. Maybe we should ask for clarification. Might be a good idea to do it early in the 7 day hold period so there is time to incorporate further suggestions. Do you want to ask for clarification? Would you like me to do that? Do you think there are any other changes to be made before we go back for help? I can't think of any. --KenWalker | Talk15:51, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Undoubtedly, steamers had to report their earnings, but I don't know what information there is in Victoria, or where. West researched his books quite thoroughly and their footnotes are quite specific, so that should help:
The subsidies were definitely provincial. Here's what the source, West's article The BX and the Ruxh to Fort George says:
Early in 1918 the Quesnel Board of Trade, encouraged by members of the Provincial Legislature appealed to the newly elected Brewster Administration at Victoria to grant the BC Express Company a subsidy to enable it to restore its river service between Soda Creek and Fort George. In its appeal it was pointed out that settlers along the Fraser had been promised a railway (the PGE) whose failure to materialize had caused them great suffering, since they had no way of marketing their crops. It should also be pointed out that mining in the Cariboo had become stagnant owing, partially, to the greatly increased cost equipment now that that the low steamer rate from the railway at Fort George (the GTP) was not available. As the BC Express Company was willing to re-establish the river service, provided it was guaranteed against operating losses, an arrangement was eventually consummated whereby the Provincial Government paid an annual subsidy of $10,000.
In the footnotes for that portion, West said that a letter to the Board of Trade from JM Yorston MLA dated Feb 23rd 1918 made the arrangements. And in another footnote he says that evidence of the payment can be found for only two years, in the Public Accounts for the Fiscal Year ended 31st of March, 1919, Victoria, 1920, page C221. And the other can also be found in Public Accounts for the Fiscal Year ended 31st of March, 1920, Victoria, 1921, page B224.
I think if there was solid information on what the BX made each year, West would have put that information in his books. He was the General Manager of the BC Express Company from 1903 until 1921. Though he comments on the $7,000 loss for 1915, he doesn't get into other specifics other than commenting on that June where the BX made $15,000. It could be that some of this information is lost forever.
As for the criticism, there was rivalry, of course, among the BC Express Company boats and the privately owned ones and the railway's boats. They raced eachother, but they didn't seem to criticize each other, either you could make a go out of it in the business or you couldn't. The GTP and the BC Express had issues, with Millar trying to buy Prince George and the GTP lowering its bridges on the route from Fort George to Tete Jaune Cache, but none of that is a criticism of the BX, nor did it affect her route, but only the route of her sister ship, the BC Express (sternwheeler), where I get into that a bit more. So, no, I still can't think of any criticism. Maybe you should get him to clarify.
Certainly the local papers raved about her:
the BX arrived today and half the populace was at the Landing to meet her,
the BX brought in a shipment of beef today,
a dinner for Captain Browne and the crew of the BX was held last night
Okay, I found a good old article in the South Fort George Herald dated November 5th, 1910, that gives a hint of Fort George's feelings for the BX.
A complimentary dinner was tendered for the officers and crew of the BX by the residents of South Fort George and the adjoining townsites last Saturday evening at the newly completed Hotel Northern.The event took the nature of a Thanksgiving offering at the resusitation of this fine riverboat from her recent mishap which at the time looked as though a resumption for this year would be out of the question. Any other company but this admirable "clock of precision" would have forgone the two trips made after the accident and berthed the boat for the winter. But the BX Compny is a system with a system brought to perfection through fifty years of mastery on the longest and best stage line in existence. And furthermore the officers of this new boat has imbibed the principles of the land chain of the old organization by bringing up to South Fort George the largest tonnage ever carried on the Fraser above Soda Creek- 90 tons. This enterprise on the part of the transportation company led the philanthropic merchants to heroic deeds which resulting in grouping of the officers and crew in the dining room of our prohibition hotel, (the Northerm didn't have a liquor licence until that December) and in dry wit, dry song and still drier toasts, made plain their appreciation of their efforts at the termination of navigation. The representative of Honorable Adventurers spoke touchingly and feelingly of the hardships encountered by the bold navigators of the Fraser from the time of Simon Fraser to Captain Browne, but lamented the fact that a wave was creeping over the country that had for its ultimate object the dethroning of an admirable aid to social felicity.
The two trips they're talking about the BX making are the two that Browne made before the Chilco (sternwheeler) was beached just north of Quesnel with Fort George's winter food supply. The BX actually went back to Quesnel for the winter, but when petitioned to make one more trip with food supplies, returned to Fort George in early December.CindyBotalk20:08, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I just spotted that myself. I'm glad it passed. There's a bit more to the GA process than I thought. I saw on the BC Wikiproject that that's on your to-do list: to get some of the BC "B" articles to GA. I don't think I have anything else quite up to that standard yet, BC Express (sternwheeler), is the closest probably, but not really cited enough. I'm working on Barnard's Express this week, and (using what I've learned lately), I'll cite it properly and maybe we can get it there soon too.CindyBotalk00:52, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Cindy
As you no doubt have noted by now I'm temporarily back; not sure if you've got Chinaman on your watchlist but check out its talkpage; I wonder if Hong will accuse me of uncivility or whatever; we'll see, but let's just say I talked like a Cariboozer in responding to him just now. It's my culture - that's what multiculturalism is all about enit? ;-)Skookum104:58, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi CindyBo. You are off to such a great start on the article Moyie, British Columbia that it may qualify to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page under the Did you know... section. The Main Page gets about 4,000,000 hits per day and appearing on the Main Page may help bring publicity and assistance to the article. However, there is a five day from article creation window for Did you know... nominations. Before five days pass from the date the article was created and if you haven't already done so, please consider nominating the article to appear on the Main Page by posting a nomination at Did you know suggestions. If you do nominate the article for DYK, please cross out the article name on the "Good" articles proposed by bot list. Also, don't forget to keep checking back at Did you know suggestions for comments regarding your nomination. Again, great job on the article. -- Jreferee(Talk)17:09, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
On August 14, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Nicolas Coccola, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
Replaceable fair use Image:Trixie_and_Dean_Koontz.jpg
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Your Moyie page is great. I was thinking about putting something together for the Minto, which would perhaps be the beginning of an Arrow Lakes steamboat page. I can't find anything on Minto in Wikipedia outside of your Moyie page. Are you aware of an existing page? Mtsmallwood (talk) 23:33, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Kinda far from your turf but just a heads-up on it, if you've anything maybe to add. There was a discussion on the Kamloops-Alexandria route in Robin Skelton's This is Cariboo and I think a map; I think it went via Deadman's Creek and Bridge Lake; would be good to get/have a map; also the Fraser Canyon route I think there's at least a heritage sign, part of the trail may actually be preserved, or located anyway; like the Lillooet Cattle Trail it was narrow and steep and switchbacked and a lot of animals died trying to pack over the route; a waste of money, much trumped in our histories, but largely pointless....any cats or fixes you could add pls do. NB Category:Historic trails and roads in Canada in case there's anything like an an Omimeca or Cassiar Trail....I guess Collins Overland Telegraph almost is required as that's where Telegraph Trail redirects to I think....Skookum1 (talk) 16:43, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
er, that's weird it was a redirect when I tried it last time; redlink now; or waitaminit no I found the movie from the search results, not a redirect.Skookum1 (talk) 17:01, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hey...how's wedded bliss going? Just trying to remember - somewhere, to someone, this summer, I gave/loaned by old BC govt publication Water Powers......was it you? It has hydrologic flow rates for various rivers; looking for info on the Blaeberry, Spillimacheen, Canoe, Kicking Horse, Kinbasket, Bush, Wood, Goldstream etc tribs of the Columbia for Talk:Columbia River and its article page...haven't seen a lot of edits from you lately so expededct you're on honeymoon, or otherwise living in the real world....Skookum1 (talk) 13:57, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please come to an informal gathering of Vancouver Wikipedians, Monday, May 5 at 6:30 pm. It will be at Benny's Bagels, 2505 West Broadway. We'd love to see you there, and please invite others! Watch the Vancouver Meetup page for details.
Hi Cindy; thought I'd take this opportunity to introduce you to lurker extraordinaire sf sorrow, signs sfs and is usually a 24. IP address; he doesnt' ahve good wiki manners and is just a raw rook but he means well and knows all kinds of stuff, and thank heavens has a sense of humour; sfs, I'f forgotten your background but it's in industry, no? i.e. engineering or commerce or ?? Not government, surely?Skookum1 (talk) 05:40, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Wiki Manners ? do they exist? what are they ? Are they an extension of real manners, cuz I don't have those either. Manana. How do I get a Mr PG Award? Is there an Uncle Ben's Brew Award? Hi Cindy Bo. this is SFS. I skulk the sewers of Wiki, passing pithy comments on pages and such. To work. Boats on Peace. Chex out Frontier Days in BC, c 1972. There is chapter on same.
and the book. Land of 12 foot davis. More details. There is an excellent Edmntn Historian who wrote a detailed history of N. Alberta and rivers; c. 1980. forgotten name. sfs —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.81.76.183 (talk) 10:34, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Does anyone have a complete Times History of the War [WW1}, 20 volume set bound in sumptuous red cloth? Willing to lend volumes. etc etc.
I have a MacMillan history. (Bloody annoying but boffo graphics) a Colliers, and a Groliers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.81.76.183 (talk) 11:29, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hi SFS.
Nice to meet you. It sounds as if we have some interests in commom. I've heard of Land of 12 Foot Davis, but haven't been able to find a copy. No, I'm not in government, thank goodness, I manage a large liquor store, which is undoubtedly less tedious. So what types of articles have you been working on?CindyBotalk04:44, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't aware of the thread earlier. If you wish to restore the section, feel free to revert my edit, but I think you should consider renaming the section from "Trixie Koontz" to "Inspiration" and slightly altering the information in the section. Then you could remove the "off topic" tag, and it would fit into the article well. Cheers! Malinaccier (talk)22:56, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Help !!
Cindi Lou... I will need some help with the Steamboats of the Yukon River; and Mississippi. feel free to write away.
I think Peace and MacKZie are for all intents and purposes finished. PHotos could be added for garnish. sfs
I will see what I can do. I have many good online photo sources and I'm pretty sure I can find some material on the Yukon, although the Mississippi may be a bit tougher and is bound to be a big project. Maybe User:mtsmallwood will have some ideas on where to start with that. He has done some amazing work on steamboats articles . See Steamboats of the Columbia River as an example and he made some of the templates you see at the bottom of the steamboat articles.CindyBotalk07:44, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Cin, ( any relation to Dr. Syn? ) I just started the Yukon and Miss. pages to get them started. I was alarmed that they didn't exist. It will take
a year or more to whip into shape. I don't have much on the Miss. someone east will have. MTSmallwood work is beyond excellent. sfs —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.81.76.183 (talk) 15:49, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There isn't much on Steamboats on the Shushwap either. Perhaps we could write one called Shagboats on the Shuswap..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.81.76.183 (talk) 15:54, 2
5 July 2008 (UTC)
my humour is wasted on you lot. I threw a bunch of stuff on Miss. together but some clown deleted it and put it on redirect. Thus I have written a bunch more and left it
both on sb of the Miss talk an 24...talk. for the moment till it is readable and showable. Drinkin' an' Uncle Ben's stubbie then? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.81.76.183 (talk) 22:41, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Nah, just a Corona. Yes, deletions and redirects happen all the time to new articles. One good way to work on an article is to create a user page for yourself to write drafts in, which is called a sandbox. For example you could create User:SFS/sandbox and write all you want without fear of deletion. Then when the article is ready you copy and paste it over to Steamboats of the Mississippi River (or whatever). Another way is to put the tag {{underconstruction}} on the top of the article, so that everyone knows that it is a work in progress.CindyBotalk06:55, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
yes, and that's why Wikipedia sandboxes exist; to keep the icky stuff away from admins who'd otherwise delete it while you're working on it. I have a few - User:Skookum1/Sandbox is my latest; because you have an account User:Sfsorrow2 you can start a page User:Sfsorrow2/Sandbox and jot away to your heart's content without anyone butting in (unless you invite them).Skookum1 (talk) 15:52, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
PS Steamboats of the Yukon River I just added various cats and stubs and the respective WikiProject templates to; note the WikiProject templates will attract attention from content-minded editors as opposed to nit-picking finicky-admin editors.....Skookum1 (talk) 16:00, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Cin n Skook, Hmmm. Now we'll give wiki servers conniptions. There are two SB of the Miss. articles now. The one Neworn nuked. And a new, longer one I put up
demain. If you access sb of miss on this talk page you get redirect. I you do a search it will pull up new, must have a later different internal file listing. Who know what
evil lurks in the minds of wiki.... sfs —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.81.76.183 (talk) 16:41, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Why didn't you at least try to obey naming conventions and include "River" in the title, as with our other steamboat articles? This will probably take a name-rename debate to fix now.....sigh. You've also got to learn to add categories to try to make your new articles more "presentable" for cruising admins and readers alike; didn't know you'd had one deleted, but most likely it's because you're not posting wiki-style articles; lots of detail and you've learned some stuff about headings; I'll probably create a Category:Steamboat articles by region or the like for all these lake/river steamboat articles to be in....I added the US WikiProject and WP Ships which should get teh appropriate attention from editors who can work on the linking/copy-editing, I don't ahve time (I'm working on editing music tracks for an upcoming first-CD....).Skookum1 (talk) 16:51, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, the naming mishap works to our advantage. the 2 articles wont be confused for the moment. Did you actually read the article?
Presentable? Conventions? Categories ? mere wiki twaddle. Content Content Content Pal. My head is too loaded with writing and research to worry about such
ephemera. sfs —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.81.76.183 (talk) 17:02, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Don't know what you mean about the articles not getting confused; I just changed Steamboats of the Mississippi River to a redirect to your new article. No time to read/think about your content, don't know Mimsissippi history well enough to kibbitz; could you at least help the wikification process and try and link names/events in the article, and also put italics on all the vessel-names?Skookum1 (talk) 17:05, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes each branch of river needs an article. Don't get your shorts into a diamond hitch, the article has only been there 12 hours. Wikidressing and pinstriping will be done, as
will each tributary. The page will take time. sfs —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.81.76.183 (talk) 18:18, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Try at least to add and while you're typing the draft, and learn to automatically add the double apostrophes on either side of shipnames to make italics; saves time/hunting later on. I'm not getting my knickers tight, I'm just trying to teach you how to contribute efficiently to Wikipedia, and that means not leaving doo-doo in your wake for others to cleanup; yes, only 12 hours, but that's an eternity in wikidom as you've already found out from speedy deletes (they've done it to me, too, can't remmber which town it was but "blip" it was gone as I hadn't added cats or refs yet; within five minutes...no, two minutes...). Grammar and other stuff regular editors can fix, but just try and link and italicize as you're writing; either that or use "Preview" before you post, or your User:Sfsorrow/Sandbox, and add the links/italics after you're done drafting the text, then post it....Please.Skookum1 (talk) 18:35, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, I find it easier to read without the wikiwash, having cut my teeth on encyclopaedias; otherwise it looks like someone broke a Bic pen over the page. sfs —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.81.76.183 (talk) 20:36, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, then don't bitch when something gets deleted or you get actions on the page you don't like; you don't own the work, remember that, anybody can edit and many will over time. If you don't make 'em right, don't expect 'em to stand various kinds of admin challenges; at least learn about cats and proper titling and such, but if you want draft 'em on a sandbox and invite other editors to edit them there before you post them; that way they definitely won't get deleted or otherwise too much immediately mucked with. Either do that, or don't complain; good work in story, bit colloquial for what will eventually be edited to wiki-speak in spots, and good narrative; but provide refs - jsut a list of which books you used to write it from, or even ones you remmbeer reading.Skookum1 (talk) 21:03, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Off topic again here, but have either of you come across much on Bishop Emile Grouard? I was adding some notes to the Steamboats of the Peace River page and came across this tantalizing paragraph in my source Pioneer Days in British Columbia. "The vessel (St Charles) reflected the vitality of Bishop Grouard, probably the best known of all the northern priests and one of Canada's great frontiersmen. For nearly seventy years, from 1862, he served the Indians and the Eskimos travelling tens of thousands of miles by foot and snowshoe, dogteam and canoe." Sounds like another article in the making. Gotta love our notable pioneers. They certainly keep us busy.CindyBotalk05:26, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ah. But I see that there's not even a Grouard, Alberta article yet either. Oh well, hopefully the Alberta wikipedians have it all on their to do list. Looks like Bishop Grouard could be an interesting biography to work on. I've crossed the border to Alberta a few times in my interests. I worked on Patrick Burns (businessman), for example. But we've plenty to do here yet, as I'm sure you noticed. Every time a new article is started, it uncovers a dozen new ones that need creating.CindyBotalk06:33, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In case I missed any...
Hi Cin; check out Category:Communities on the Fraser River which I made today as the "cities" one bugged me; I realize now I missed Alexandria and I think Hixon and Red Bluff may have articles. Any Prince George neighbourhoods or riverside community/locality articles should go on it - is Fort George (however dabbed) a separate article? I've forgotten; just letting you know it exists.....Skookum1 (talk) 04:51, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
