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January 17

Confusion and A Question....

Dear Wikipedia help desk,

I signed up for a WiKi account a few days ago, the next day it got deleted because i made a page for a company called Hopper Tours, which caused some confusion after because I see a lot of companies on wikipedia and I am NOT a Hopper Tours employee, just an anonymous person that wants to make a Wiki page to inform the public about this company, and it blocked us because it was a company and werent aloud to promote it but i wasnt promoting it,i barely wrote anything ? i dont get it....and really need help to get the hang around this cause their are so many rules to follow,and i really need the MAIN important ones, i really need help with this account.im so lost.

01:11, 17 January 2009 (UTC)~~Adri —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.195.169.225 (talk)

Well, thing is, there are some guidelines to creating articles. You can't create an article on just about anything. Firstly, the subject should be notable. Then it should be verifiable using references, if possible from reliable sources. Also, the article must be written in a neutral point of view. Unnecessarily decorative phrases shouldn't be used, which will make it look like an advertisement - this has probably been the problem with your article. Cheers. Chamal ^talk 01:51, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

• Accounts aren't deleted and I doubt you'd be blocked for failing to follow some rules in writing your first entry. Just read the pages Chamal listed and try again (if the company is a suitable subject) - Mgm|^(talk) 11:06, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Mac, he could have been blocked if his username was the same name as his company, for promotional reasons. Xclamation point 16:25, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I can find no evidence that an article called Hopper Tours was ever created. What was the user name you were using? – ukexpat (talk) 16:44, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Special:Listusers leads me to believe the username was User:HopperTours, the spam page was created in userspace at User:HopperTours, not the mainspace, was created and deleted on 13th January, and the account was softblocked as a username violation at about the same time. _Gb^T/c 16:47, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

And for the sake of completeness the entire contents of the deleted page can (temporarily) be seen at User:Gb/Sandbox. A clear cut G11..._Gb^T/c 16:58, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Biographys

Hi, I recently had my biography up and it was deleted. This is what was said:

This page has been deleted. The deletion log for the page is provided below for reference.

• 00:47, 17 January 2009 Athaenara (Talk | contribs) deleted "Christopher Snape" ‎ (G11: blatant advertising. Created by Christopher Snape, tagged by NAHID and CyberGhostface.)
• 10:37, 15 January 2009 Fuhghettaboutit (Talk | contribs) deleted "Christopher Snape" ‎ (G11: Blatant advertising)

I dont really understand why it was deleted? It was all ture information and I dont believe that it was advertising. I have included my page. Any assistance in editiing and guidance me would be gratefully appreciated so I can get it up and running again. It also means that I have lost all my editing info....it took me ages to work out how to do this...is there any way of getting it back so I can edit what I had? My page was 'Christopher Snape'

Thanks, Chris

Below is a copy of what I had straight from the site (I am unable to get the editing info...I would love to get it back)

Text hidden to make Help Desk page reading easier

Christopher Snape (born 16 September 1982) is a fantastic example of an Australian Lighting Designer. He started his own business 'Christopher James Sound Light'n'Efex' at the age of 14, Snape rose to prominence in the early 2000s as his Lighting Designs finally starting to hit more and more Theaters across the city of Sydney. This assisted him in establishing an international lighting design career. Christopher's Lighting Designs are most commonly found under the Musical Theatre genres. His Lighting Designs are made up by a mix of classic methods for lighting theatre however he enjoys todays new technologies and loves to wow the audience with his imaginative ways in which he uses old methods of lighting with new equipment and ideas! Contents [hide]

   * 1 A Snippit of Christopher's Career
   * 2 Biography
         o 2.1 Childhood and discovery
         o 2.2 School V's Career
         o 2.3 Beyond the Australian Shores
         o 2.4 What has Chris been Involved in?
   * 3 Overall
   * 4 External links

[edit] A Snippit of Christopher's Career

To date, Christopher Snape has achieved a huge success with his lighting designs across NSW and throughout Australia. One of his lighting designs include 'A Night With Delta Goodrem' - Sony BMG - Live Concert plus DVD Shoot held in Sydney. The Urban Music Awards

In 2007 Snape Designed the Urban Music Awards, Australian and New Zealand. In this particular show he lit artist such as 'Samantha Jade', Doug Williams, PNC. It was a fantastic night had by all.

Snape in June of 2006 was yet to wow thousands after he was asked to be the Lighting Designer for Sydney's Powerhouse Museum's new Exhibition named 'Further, Faster, Higher'. An exhibition showcasing the vast years of transport objects within the museums transport gallery. This opened to the public in December 2006 and is scheduled to last until 2012.

[edit] Biography

[edit] Childhood and discovery Anthony Snape in concert

Christopher James Snape was born on 16 September 1982 in Gunnedah, New South Wales to parents Neill and Gena Snape. Snape, who showed a strong interest in electronics and lights from a very young age, attended Gunnedah High School, though due to its curriculum placing strong emphasis on sport (Snape taking part in football, swimming and soccer), Lighting Design was primarily kept separate. Christopher was the usual country child, riding bikes going camping and getting into just about everything. He began singing and playing in a band with his big brother, performing on stage in a variety of shows in a variety of different roles both at school and in armature societies.

Christopher has always been interested with electronics throughout his life but it was not until Chris was invited to control the lighting for his brothers up and coming drama assessment that things got started. Chris became hooked. "With just a few lights, you can take people from sitting in a audience to a place far beyond their imagination". From that point on Christopher made a commitment to pursue and become successful in his chosen career of 'Lighting Design'.

Christopher began to develop his knowledge of lighting, with not only learning what type of lighting fixtures there are but most importantly, how to use them correctly. He borrowed every lighting, theatre-craft, concert book that there was to find, spoke to as many professionals in the industry and made it a point to learn from everyone and every experience.

"I just kept asking people if I could light their show" and that he did. "People soon became aware of what I was trying to do so I then started getting phone calls from people I did not even know, wanting me to light their show.....and of cause I said YES!"

After a while Chris thought it would be best to develop a business name. So after a few days of brainstorming, he came up with the name 'Christopher James Sound Light'n'Efex. "I was not only designing the lighting for everyone but I was their whole production; lighting, sound, AV, set". Chris and all his equipment would get dropped off in the morning and get picked up late that night. "I started using my mums mobile phone for my business. At that time someone my age was not allowed to buy a mobile. I remember I was sitting in my maths class one day and my phone rang, so without thinking I grabbed it out of my bag and ran outside. By the time I had finished the call everyone was still in shock. I then had to explain to my maths teacher what had just happened, why and that it would never happen again (she was very good about it all). These days just-about everyone has one so its not such a big deal" U2 Cocktail Party - Pre-show

[edit] School V's Career

One of Christophers' first big Sydney shows was to help at the entertainment centre. "When I received the call, I could not believe it. I turned up with eyes wide open. A funny thing happened there actually....when we were all having a break before the show, I was talking with one of the main guys, just chatting away then somehow it came to a point where we were talking about my age. He thought I was twenty-three years old. I almost fell over as I was only fifteen!"

Christopher would try as much as possible to get to where he was going and do the work before anyone would ask him his age. "If I told anyone my age I was always stereo-typed, but if I could show them what I knew and how I worked by that stage if they found out my age they would just be surprised. If anyone asked, I would always tell them".

Throughout the next few years Christopher had to juggle his schooling with his chosen career. Traveling from Gunnedah, New South Wales and Sydney, New South Wales for weeks at a time for nothing more then experience! "What I learnt and who I met in those first few years has been worth more to me than money can buy!".

I the year 2000, Snape finally finished his schooling career and by early 2001 he had established himself firmly with the theatres and concert halls in Sydney, New South Wales and surrounding areas.

[edit] Beyond the Australian Shores

2007 saw Christopher leave the shores of Australian and fly to Bangkok, Thailand. He was asked by Lighting Designer 'Trudy Dalgleish' to be the Lighting Director in Bangkok for the show Hello Kitty. The show started its tour in Dubai, then went to Bangkok then to Hong Kong. Christopher spent 8 days there with a fantastic team around him.

Christopher was then asked in 2008 by Roger Hind from 'Theatricks Production' to be the Lighting Designer for the 'Gloria Gene's Coffees' Annual Awards. This saw him fly all the way to Dubai for ten days. "It was very hot and steamy however worth every second". Dubai

. [edit] What has Chris been Involved in?

Christopher Snape has been involved in a number of shows and events throughout his career. Some of these include:

'Pippin' Kookaburra Theatre Company - Sydney Theatre ~ Associate Lighting Designer

'Our Town' - Arts Unit - Seymour Theatre Centre ~ Lighting Designer

'Bubble' - Legs on the Wall - Sydney Opera House ~ Lighting Designer

'Melissa Tallon' Album Launch - Universal Music Australia - Sydney and Brisbane ~ Lighting Designer

'Anthony Snape' Album Launch - Independent Music Artist - National Tour ~ Lighting Designer

'Golden Slipper Ball' - Star City Casino ~ Lighting Designer

'Enough Rope' Andrew Denton - ABC Television ~ Moving Light Director Further, Faster, Higher

'Primary Choral Concert Series' - Sydney Opera House ~ Associate Lighting Designer

'Optus Gala Dinner' - Australian Business Theatre ~ Lighting Designer

'Encore' - Arts Unit - Sydney Opera House ~ Associate Lighting Designer

'Sydney Region Showcase' - City Recital Hall, Sydney ~ Associate Lighting Designer

'Writers OnStage' - Arts Unit ~ Lighting Designer

'U2 Cocktail Party' - Acer Arena, Sydney ~ Lighting Director

'Ryde School Spectacular' - Sydney Opera House ~ Associate Lighting Designer

'State Drama Festival' - Arts Unit - Seymour Theatre Centre ~ Lighting Designer Dance Festival

'Australian Young Women of the Year Awards' - Town Hall, Sydney ~ Lighting Director

'Australian Commercial Radio Awards' - Big Top, Luna Park Sydney ~ Lighting Director

'Woolworths Awards' - Australian Technology Park ~ Lighting Director

'Sydney Region Dance Festival' - Seymour Theatre Centre ~ Associate Lighting Designer

'Australian Spelling Championships; OzSpell' - Channel 7 - Lighting Designer / Director

'State Dance Festival' - Arts Unit ~ Associate Lighting Designer

'Sydney Region Drama Festival' - Department of Education and Training ~ Lighting Designer

'Burn' - Arts Unit - Pact Theatre ~ Lighting Designer

'Into The Woods' ~ Lighting Designer

Snape has also been involved with the 'Schools Spectacular' held in Sydney at the Entertainment Centre for ten years now.

[edit] Overall

Christopher Snape is one of Australia's leading young Lighting Designers. His lighting designs are imaginative, creative, inspiring and most of all; they has a powerful effect on any show. It's Snape's creative and visual ability to turn script and music into visual art that adds a unique intensity and strength to any production.

Snape believes that a great Lighting Designer sets the mood for memorable! A great Lighting Designer gives your audience a Visual to ensure a Performance to remember! A great Lighting Designer compliments the Audio Designer and extracts the DEPTH and EMOTION of a song to project a defining Visual.

With Snape's vast experience all of his Lighting Designs come accross as emotive and in turn connect the audience to the show on both a visual and emotional level! Chris has found that most people (promoters, managers, directors) when planning their events, musicals, concerts or tours don't think enough as to what a great Lighting Designer will add to their production. Snape believes that the Lighting Designer is every bit as important as the Audio Designer and Musicians. He also believes that all Lighting Designs must compliment the performance, not simplify or smother it.

Christopher continues developing his skills in the art of Lighting Design, and will continue to do so for as long as he is able. He is a talented young man that has overcome a lot of obstacles and yet still continues forward in his quest of becoming the best designer he can be. Chris believes in passing on knowledge so that the younger generations can carry forward the art in lighting design.

Lighting is his passion.

[edit] External links Sister project Wikiquote has a collection of quotations related to: Christopher Snape Sister project Wikimedia Commons has media related to: Christopher Snape

   * Official website  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.105.13.157 (talk) 02:03, 17 January 2009 (UTC) 

Please read WP:N and WP:BIO. Wikipedia is not a place to publish articles about yourself. Wikipedia only takes information out there in the world, that has already been published in reliable sources and uses it to build articles. Subjects without extensive information outside of Wikipedia do not usually merit inclusion in Wikipedia. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:30, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

And WP:AUTO Empire3131 (talk) 02:32, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

And see WP:WWMPD. --Teratornis (talk) 07:03, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

</br>

What is the page that describe the code </br> like <noinclude>? Aquitania (talk) 06:24, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

</br> actually isn't anything, however, <br /> is an XHTML line break. <noinclude> is wiki-markup, which is separate from HTML/XHTML tags. Calvin 1998 ^(t·c) 06:28, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

• There is some <noinclude> help here. —Noah 06:32, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

And see Help:HTML in wikitext and Wikipedia:Line break handling. --Teratornis (talk) 07:01, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

While it is a good practice to use the proper <br />, mangling it is not fatal. Wikipedia renders HTML though HTML Tidy; variations of the break will be repaired and rendered as XHTML break. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 10:57, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Image in dire need of modification

This image File:Wiens law.svg is in dire need of modification. The colour shown don't correspond to the peak wavelengths and this isn't mentioned in most of the captions. We could note it in the article, but it would be better to just modify the thing I think Nil Einne (talk) 12:18, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Why don't you do it yourself, since you seem to know about the subject? Be bold, go ahead and do it if you can. It'd be better than someone without any knowledge of the subject doing it. This might help you. Or if you can't, you can try asking at the Graphic Lab. Cheers. Chamal ^talk 14:37, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

But note, if you do edit it, make sure you edit the version on Commons and reupload it there: commons:File:Wiens law.svg. – ukexpat (talk) 15:19, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Made vector graphic out of raster - how to say it's from that raster?

Hi. I have made a vector version of a raster graphic (Raster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Athiest.jpg Vector: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SimplifiedAtheist.svg). I don't know how to say that the vector graphic is the raster graphic on the vector graphic page and I couldn't find anywhere where it said how. Could anyone please tell me how to do so? Torswin (talk) 13:19, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

For the old raster image, you can put {{Vector version available|NewImage.svg}} on the page. You should also fill in copyright information on the new vector information too, else it may get deleted in a week. Xclamation point 16:24, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Greek surname: Chondroyannos

I recently completed a new submission to the Wikipedia site. There are recognized submissions within Wikipedia referring to the specific name itself which was not before recognized independently on the site. Most notably the 'Greek name' article, subcategory: Greek surnames, also the 'Family name' article, subcategory: Greece. I have compiled this new submission which touches on the family name "Chondroyannos" to be documented within the Wikipedia resource and referenced by Wikipedia users. My question is in reference to its validity. When is it likely that this post will be recognized and incorporated into Wikipedia's database of information; its current status changed from requiring further reference/citation and the name indicted into the Wikipedia category, Greek surname? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chondroyannos (talk • contribs) 14:22, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

It is already included as an article here: Chondroyannos. All your edits are visible as soon as you save them. However, you need to add references to it so that it will be verifiable. I have added it to the necessary category. Chamal ^talk 14:28, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Deleting New Topic that is Valid

My recent submission of a new term that is supported by research was speedy deleted because it had some posting errors (Linked quote from another site, - copyright issue) and it was determined that the information I posted about myself and my work in the field of research was not suitable. The Wiki editor even confirmed that the topic is valid. I have been 'warned' about further editing of the article, and am not getting answers from Talk.

Instead of deleting the topic why not edit it to comply or at least give me a chance? The article is gone and recovering it is difficult. I cry foul. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ShuttleSpace (talk • contribs) 17:10, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

If you want to re-create the article, please consider doing so in a user subpage - User:ShuttleSpace/Shared reality for example. Then when you think it's ready for the mainspace, ask a few other editor to review it. Please not that even in your user space, it must not be a copyvio. – ukexpat (talk) 17:28, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I have reviewed the deleted article ShuttleSpace. You stated "I am proposing this term because there is currently no term that I know of, hence it's lack of 'wide use'" A neologism that you recently created will have no reliable sources. The content appears to constitute analysis, synthesis and original research. I left a welcome on your userpage with links to the major policies and guidelines. I have also left a warning about your username: it is the name of a company that was linked to in one of the articles, thus violates the username policy. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 12:43, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Translation

One of the articles I've written for de.wiki has been translated for en.wiki: constrictivity. In the spirit of free knowledge I'm really quite happy about this. But the translation is lacking proper attribution and therefore not conforming to the license. At de.wiki we use Help:Import to avoid this problem. However, I cannot find out if this function is enabled here. Also, I was not able to find out how the license issue is handled for translations here. Can someone help me out and fix this? --Rosentod (talk) 17:13, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Fascinating question... my joking response is "can the Wikimedia Foundation sue itself for violating the GFDL?" (I was looking at WP:COPYRIGHTS but I don't see how that applies to inter-wiki translations.) —Noah 21:39, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

The page history [1] of Constrictivity shows the creation edit summary "create the article based on de.wikipedia", and the edit contains the interlanguage link de:Konstriktivität. This makes it relatively easy to track down the source (assuming it's not deleted from de.wikipedia) so I would just place a template from Category:Wikipedia translation templates on Talk:Constrictivity and be satisfied. Are you looking for a copy of the German page history to the English Wikipedia? I think that is rarely done although a strict interpretation of the GFDL may require something like that. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:56, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your answers. No, the Foundation can not sue because as the author I am the holder of the copyright. As I understand it the license requires the list of authors to be together with the article and not on a different server/site. Linking to the original article would not work anymore if it was removed from de.wiki for some reason, e.g. notability. I now fixed the problem. To make this clear: I fully endorse the translation. But as an author I insist on proper attribution. If wikipedia does not adhere to the license we can not expect others to do so. --Rosentod (talk) 12:47, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I am not a lawyer and don't give legal advice, but I consider http://en.wikipedia.org and http://de.wikipedia.org to be on the same site. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:30, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

No, it is not the same site (for several reasons). As you can see here the databases are not even on the same server. So by no means can something on de.wiki be considered to be local to en.wiki. But I am not a lawyer as well. --Rosentod (talk) 09:05, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Fair Use

Does this file come under fair use licence? I dont think so, because here the 12th point says that

"Pictures of people still alive, groups still active, and buildings still standing; provided that taking a new free picture as a replacement (which is almost always considered possible) would serve the same encyclopedic purpose as the non-free image. This includes non-free promotional images."

Please reply.--Abhishek Jacob (talk) 17:59, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

If she is a living person, then policy on English Wikipedia says that it is possible to take another picture of her and release it under GFDL or equivalent licence, therefore this picture cannot be claimed under fair use. I deleted it per WP:CSD#I7 , invalid claim of fair use. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 18:02, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, there will be a deleting campaign in our wiki soon! Another doubt, is the fair use license valid only in USA? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abhishek Jacob (talk • contribs) 18:28, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia's fair use policy is based on US copyright law (though our policy is much stricter than the law), but similiar legal principles exist in other countries. See fair use, fair dealing and limitations and exceptions to copyright for example. Algebraist 18:36, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Missing references

I edited the page Ocular Myasthenia on 1/17/2009. This article contained three references. I included two new references in my edit using the format expecting that they would be automatically added at the end and in the text as numbers 4 and 5. However, the revised page still has only the original three references, and the ones I added are flagged in the text as 1 and 2. The result is that the References paragraph is now incorrect, the original 1 and 2 and my 1 and 2 are incompatible. I would greatly appreciate advice on how to fix this problem. Also, I do not understand how to ask this question on my talk page, there seems to be no window to type in Devonshire chemist (talk) 18:10, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Looks like someone has fixed the references for you - it needed a section with <references /> in it to make them shew up. To edit your talk page, go to it and click on either the "edit this page" or "new section" tabs at the top of the page. Them to add the "helpme" request, just type {{helpme|this is what I need help with}} and then save just as you would any other page. Wikipedia confuses almost everybody at times - so do please ask if this doesn't make sense, or you have any more questions! DuncanHill (talk) 18:26, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

If you click here [2], you will see how the references were made to shew up. DuncanHill (talk) 18:27, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

the promble of creating a new account

I am in china mainland ,you know i can only visit you site by agent.so when i want to creat my new account.i found i can not see the picture of the check number.thx! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.144.54.46 (talk) 18:45, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

You can request that an account be created for you at WP:ACC. Algebraist 18:56, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Editing page for school I work for

Hi there. I am an alumna and employee of a school whose page needs work. I specifically want to add more reliable resources. I don't work in PR or admissions, and I'm editing of my own volition. Any conflict? Thanks! Rmj12345 (talk) 21:48, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Just make a note on the talkpage and I can't really see the problem - as long as other editors know. --Cameron Scott (talk) 21:51, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

(e/c)Yes there is a conflict, but it can be managed. I suggest that you declare your COI on the talk page and then discuss the changes that you think need to be made and the references supporting them. – ukexpat (talk) 21:53, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Deletion without entry in Revision History

Through my watchlist, I was notified of a contribution to my talk page. I read the contribution, and decided to return later to reply when I had more time. However when I did return, the contribution had vanished. There was no evidence of it at all in the Revision History, as if it never had happened.

What has happened here? Did an administrator or someone else delete it in the backend? Is that common practice? Should I have been informed? 115.129.3.160 (talk) 23:28, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

You are viewing wikipedia using a 3G network which has constantly shifting IP addresses. As such, your IP address 5 minutes ago might not be the same IP address that you have in 5 minutes time. If you edited Wikipedia, then I would check the page history of the article that you edited to find out the IP address when you made an edit. Regards. Woody (talk) 23:36, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Woody. I'm unsure if you've attempted to answer my question, or provide advice? If it's the latter, thanks. If it's the former, I'm referring to a contribution made by someone else. Can you shed any light on the situation?115.129.3.160 (talk) 23:44, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

My point being that your talkpage a few hours ago may, and most likely is, different from your talkpage at the moment. There are no "deleted edits" on your current talkpage, and no actions in the deletion log, so nobody has edited User talk:115.129.3.160. If you have an account then I could check the deleted edits for that talkpage as well. IPs do not have the ability to create a watchlist which leads me to think so. Regards. Woody (talk) 23:49, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, now I understand. Please check here. Ryanwiki (talk) 00:10, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

No need to apologise, easy area for confusion. I have checked the revision history, the deleted history and your talkpage log and no edits have been deleted by an administrator. Are you sure that the comments were not deleted by a user, or by yourself. If not, then I can't think of any other reason I'm afraid. (barring oversight which is extremely unlikely unless it was revealing personal information.) Regards, Woody (talk) 00:22, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh OK, yes, the contribution did in fact reveal a user's real name. Oversight must be it. Thanks! Ryanwiki (talk) 00:27, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

This diff shows no changes between apparently consecutive edits. If no change is made then no edit should be recorded in the page history, so it looks plausible that something else was saved but later oversighted. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:35, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Instructions

Do reliable sources that only have info about how to play a game or how to use a certain thing show notability? Schuym1 (talk) 23:51, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Given that notability is inherently subjective, your question admits no definite answer until you illustrate it with examples. What game? What reliable sources? And, of course, notable to whom? The working definition of "notability" on Wikipedia is always "whatever the people who want to delete something think is notable." If nobody has challenged an article's notability (yet), then it is "notable" (so far). The definition of notability on Wikipedia may expand, or contract, in the future. (I would bet the definition will expand, as Wikipedia keeps getting larger, thereby attracting ever more groups of users willing to defend ever more obscure articles against deletion. A deletionist is, after all, merely someone who sees no value in a particular article. There might be 100 people somewhere in world who would see life-and-death value in the same article, and it's only a question of time before they discover Wikipedia. 100 people who care strongly about something will tend to work much harder to defend it than someone who is merely unimpressed by it will usually want to work to destroy it. I think eventually Wikipedia will contain everything that can be reliably sourced, and "notability" will cease to have any useful meaning independent of that.) --Teratornis (talk) 01:40, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I am talking about the guideline and not editor's personal opinions. All I want to know is if reliable sources with only instructions (reliable sources in general) is counted as trivial or significant coverage. Schuym1 (talk) 01:57, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

So you actually believe that there will be a time when the notability guideline isn't needed. I know that it will never happen because there is no way that there will ever be a consensus to get rid of it. Also, if no one says that something is non-notable in a discussion doesn't mean that it is notable if it doesn't go by WP:N or any other notability guideline. Schuym1 (talk) 02:17, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Teratornis's interesting interpretation aside, notability generally requires the following things:

1. Reliable sources (that is, sources that have some sort of editorial control)
2. Independent sources (that is, sources written by people who have no stake or interest in the subject at hand
3. Extensive sources (not just trivial mention, but in depth coverage)
4. Multiple sources (not just one web page, but reported in many places

Given the vaguesness of your question, since you haven't posted the source, it is hard to tell. If the game has been described in a published, well respected book (such as Hoyle's) or magazine (such as Games Magazine) then it is likely notable. If someone posted the rules on a self-made website, then no, it isn't notable. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:54, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I know that because I kick inclusionist butt all the time. Most of the sources that I'm referring to are probably self published. How about the book source mentioned here (not the second one because it is a trivial mention). Schuym1 (talk) 03:01, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I'd say that having an honest-to-goodness published book TOGETHER with all of the other stuff makes this one likely notable. In this specific case, with those specific sources, I would say that this one game passes WP:N tests. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:08, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I have withdrawed. My Google searches brought up mostly crap results so it's good that you participated in the AFD. Schuym1 (talk) 03:17, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

(undent) A few more thoughts on notability: I think the idea of "notability" as being somehow independent of WP:RS and WP:V, and therefore necessary to name and think about, is mostly a relic of the early days of Wikipedia when it was necessary to keep Wikipedia from growing too fast. It's very easy to start new articles of low quality, and much harder to bring articles up to featured status. Therefore Wikipedia needs some brake on article creation, to keep the average quality of existing articles reasonably high. When people browse to Wikipedia, they form their impressions based on whatever they happen to look at, so it is harmful to Wikipedia if the number of stubby articles increases too fast. Wikipedia needs to impress lots of people, so they will donate money to the project and keep it going. The more articles of high quality we have on more topics, the more viewers we will attract, and the more donations we will get. Wikipedia benefits more by growing than by not growing, as long as we can maintain quality. Jimbo Wales says the goal is to make "the sum of human knowledge" available to everyone on Earth for free. As long as we are deleting parts of "human knowledge," we haven't reached the goal yet. Jimbo did not say "the sum of notable human knowledge" because that would be like Jimbo deciding for everyone what knowledge is important and what knowledge isn't. The simple fact is that one person's cruft is another person's passion. Adding up everyone's passions and what they know about them is how you get "the sum" of human knowledge.

When Wikipedia first started, it had negligible impact on the world around it. Over time, Wikipedia's impact grew, and thus the importance of getting information onto Wikipedia became more important to more people. Some fields of human activity are far better than others at making their information acceptable to Wikipedia. For example, List of crossings of the Ohio River implies that every single such crossing is notable. However, not all of the bridges and dams across the Ohio have articles yet, because these are such boring topics that hardly anyone who edits on Wikipedia cares about them. In contrast, there might be some computer game that ten thousand kids are passionate about, but kids tend to be disorganized about documenting and publicizing their activities. (The ruling class everywhere in the world is mostly over the age of 40, and they have had more time to learn how the systems of civilization work. In particular, rulers understand the importance of getting their stuff published.) Therefore we have this odd situation that some dam on the Ohio River that maybe only 100 people think much about is "notable" while a game that ten thousand kids are playing might not be, because kids haven't yet learned how to put their knowledge into the traditional print space that Wikipedia regards as raw material.

However, kids can learn to do what their parents are doing. Kids who care about some computer game and want to see it in Wikipedia can make the stunning realization that they can get reporters to write about their game, just as their elders get reporters to write about some dam on the Ohio River that nobody cares about, or just as mathematicians can make some obscure theorem "notable" even though maybe only a few dozen people in the entire world have much knowledge about it. Mathematicians and government officials have the organization to solidify their knowledge in writing. As the importance of Wikipedia grows, more and more groups of people who are disorganized will figure out how to organize and systematize their knowledge similarly. In this way, Wikipedia's success will tend to make "notability" as a distinct requirement self-obsoleting. There will be no need for Wikipedians to arrive at any consensus to eliminate the notability guideline (note: it is not a policy), because notability is really just Wikipedia's way of telling enthusiasts for a particular subject area what they have to do to make their knowledge acceptable to Wikipedia. If they care about getting their knowledge onto Wikipedia, they will make it notable. For Wikipedia to reach its "sum of all human knowledge" goal, we must make Wikipedia seem important enough to enough people to motivate them to document what they care about in a verifiable way. --Teratornis (talk) 07:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually, the key part of WP:N is the bit about extensive/non-trivial sources. For example, my real name and address are published in a reliable source (a phone book). Thus, my existance is verifiable and that verification exists in a reliable source. However, I do not merit inclusion in Wikipedia. Why? Because people have not written enough about me. WP:N has always been, since the first, about "how much is enough". Also, it should be noted that "guideline" does not mean "policies I can ignore" or "inferior policies" or "may someday become a policy when it grows up". Guidelines serve different purposes than policies, and are not inferior to them. BOTH should be followed unless there is a compelling reason not to do so. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 19:21, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I want to make a few supplemental points:

• In support of Jayron32, WP:N derives its material from policy pages. Each statement about notability on that page exists because editors agreed that the article reflects policy statements made elsewhere. In particular, WP:N owes its existence to various content policies (WP:NPOV, WP:NOR, WP:V, WP:NOT), deletion policies, and WP:5. If you can edit contrary to WP:N, you will find yourself violating policy. If you adhere to policy, you will find that you are also adhering to WP:N. So, if you find the policy pages suitable for moderating your editing, then go ahead and ignore WP:N. If you find use in the brief collated information found at WP:N, then don't be shy when referring to it!
• On the edit page, the Wiki framework is telling me that "This page is only for questions about using Wikipedia." This discussion is no longer a grab-and-go-guide about WP:N and should probably travel back to WT:N if other editors feel that this is still important. —Kanodin (talk to me / slap me) 15:16, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

January 18

User pages

Can people cut and paste text (like 1 or 2 paragraphs word for word, or a full page of contemporary poem from some book) onto their user pages? WP:USER only mentions "images and files" as copyrighted material to refrain from using on user pages. But what about copyrighted text?--Zereshk (talk) 00:09, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

• Text is included in that unless the text is in the public domain or specifically not copyrighted to be begin with (unless the author decides otherwise, the text is copyrighted). If in doubt, there is a copyright noticeboard around, I just can't remember its name. - Mgm|^(talk) 01:27, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

To expand on Mgm's response, sometimes coyrighted text can (in the United States) be reproduced under the "fair use" doctrine—for example, in using a quotation from a book in a review of that book—but I can't see any case in which the reprodution of an entire copyrighted poem on a user page would be permissible. Deor (talk) 05:06, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

posting pictures or diagrams

I have to edit a page for a class and as part of the assignment we need to be able to add diagrams and pictures describing our process (the manufacturing process we have chosen to edit information on). The assignment is due soon and I need to know how to add in pictures. Thanks. e-mail me at <redacted> —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aylienna (talk • contribs) 00:55, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Images. Xenon54 (talk) 01:29, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism tools

I see that a lot of people have "special" tools or scripts to help undo edits quickly and copy / paste warnings. Which one should I use? How do I install these? GNRY09 (talk) 02:18, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

The most popular ones are:

1. Huggle
2. Twinkle
3. AutoWikiBrowser

Each page contains instructions and information on each program. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:50, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Via WP:TOOLS I found Wikipedia:Cleaning up vandalism/Tools.--Commander Keane (talk) 04:30, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't Huggle require rollback promotion? Ched (talk) 05:20, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Calvin 1998 ^(t·c) 05:34, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Twinkle also needs autoconfirmation and you need special permission for AWB. Chamal ^talk 05:37, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Non-English Sources

Can somebody direct me to an article that has effectual done what WP:NONENG states? I learn best by following examples. I'm trying to add Ukranian-language sources to Lviv Today (I don't speak Ukrainian, but I've been using Google's Translator). I guess what I don't understand is what the definition of a "direct quote" is. Maybe I'm just being dense, but does it mean a quote given by a person? Or just a quote from the source in general? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Killiondude (talk) 04:18, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

A direct quotation is an exact reproduction (as opposed to a summary or paraphrase) of the words uttered by a person or present in a printed source, and it should be enclosed in quotation marks. What WP:NONENG is saying is that for a direct quotation from a non-English source, the exact words in the original language should be included, so that readers can verify (or challenge) the accuracy of the translation given. I wouldn't rely on a mechanical translator for any text intended for inclusion in a WP article, myself. You might get away with paraphrasing the translation (rather than directly quoting it) and linking to the Ukrainian source, but one wonders why you're conceerned with adding sources published in a language you don't understand. Deor (talk) 04:58, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Okay. I wasn't going to put a direct quote in (if that was the case) because I don't speak the language. I am trying to convert the references section, which is currently just external links, into inline citations. To calm some concern, I don't make it a habit of working with things outside of languages I know. Thank you for your help. Killiondude (talk) 05:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

On the subject of machine translation, I think it's pretty safe on subjects where you have expertise. If you know a lot about the subject matter, you can usually tell when the translation is bad, because the translated material won't make sense to you, or won't be consistent with what you know about the subject. (For example, I've been studying wind power for a while, and now I know enough about it to understand even fairly poor machine translations of other-language Wikipedia articles on the subject. You might be interested in the {{translate wikipedia}} template I created to make it easy to write and store links to such translations.) It is much worse for someone who doesn't know much about a subject, because then a subtle translation error could lead to a factually incorrect meaning in the target language, which the nonexpert is less likely to notice. Even so, you would still like a bilingually-fluent editor to proofread anything you create with the help of a machine translator. And it's always good to search for English-language sources that duplicate (at least partially) whatever information the non-English Wikipedia article sourced from its native language, so English speakers have an easier time following the sources. --Teratornis (talk) 07:20, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

my biography

were do I start my bio? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Commanderfalcon (talk • contribs) 04:53, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Are you notable? If so, then someone will write an article about you sooner or later - you should not as you have a conflict of interest. If you are not notable, then try Wikipopuli or Wikibios.  – ukexpat (talk) 04:59, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Can't login to new account after username change.

Resolved

 – ukexpat (talk) 01:15, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I recently changed my username from 12321v to WikiEditor_09111. They are both registered under the same email. I tried to log in a few minutes ago but I kept getting an error: "Login error There is no user by the name "WikiEditor 09111". Check your spelling, or create a new account."

I typed my username and selected. 'E-mail new password' but the same error message kept showing. Then I typed my old username and did the same thing, I got a new password in my e-mail immediately. So, I tried to log-in and was prompted to reset my password. I did that but was logged into my old account - I'd like to get access to my new account so please help me out. Also, what seems to be the problem? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.72.122.207 (talk) 06:57, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Did you make this edit to the User:WikiEditor 09111 page? --Teratornis (talk) 07:24, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't know why it didn't work but try again. Be sure you are at the English Wikipedia. I just tried logging in as WikiEditor 09111 with a random password. The username was accepted but the password obviously rejected. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:35, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

It worked, I got signed in (and with my original password too). I guess it might have simply been a glitch. Thanks. WikiEditor 09111 (talk) 23:53, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Page source characters inverted right-to-left

The sources of this revision of Lysurus mokusin (which is on DYK) and its talk page, as edited by 67.166.89.243 curiously appear inverted from right to left when viewed in the editing pane. What is the cause of this? --Paul_012 ^(talk) 09:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I believe that edit inserted a unicode rtl character at the beginning of the document. Algebraist 10:29, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Infobox image

I'm trying to add File:The Investment Building - Washington, D.C..jpg‎ to the infobox on The Investment Building's entry. The picture isn't showing up, just the file name. I tried adding it with and without "File:" being included. Anyone know what I'm doing wrong? Thanks. APK is not a Womanizer 12:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

User:Fuhghettaboutit has added it. See how it's done here. Chamal ^talk 12:10, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

(e/c) Fixed. The problem is that infobox skyscraper doesn't have some of the automatic coding of other infoboxes so it requires that you enclose the image name in brackets. It also doesn't default the image's size, so I had to add a size parameter in order that the image not display at its full size.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Ahh, thank you very much. I forgot about posting the question here and was off editing other things. ha. Thank goodness for watchlists. APK is not a Womanizer 12:58, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Anytime:-)--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 05:21, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Feedback on editing

Resolved

 – ukexpat (talk) 01:14, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure I once came across a page whereby you could get feedback on your editing approach/style/actions etc. I don't mean Wikipedia:Requests for feedback, which is concerned with specific articles edited, or Wikipedia:Mentorship, which is concerned with one-to-one assistance. I mean general feedback from anyone/everyone about one's overall contributions. Where is this page (if it still exists)? Ta, --A bit iffy (talk) 14:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

• Wikipedia:Editor review? - Mgm|^(talk) 15:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes - that's it exactly. Many thanks Mgm --A bit iffy (talk) 16:33, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

alpha within cats

Several of the names listed in Category:English romantic fiction writers are incorrectly sorted, but I don't know how to fix this.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:23, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

There is no easy way. You have to edit each article and make sure it has the {{DEFAULTSORT}} template with correct sort name (or {{Lifetime}} with the appropriate dates and sort name). – ukexpat (talk) 16:48, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Here [3] is an example of how it is done. DuncanHill (talk) 16:51, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I would like to vanish and would like my user page deleted

Hi how do I go about getting my talk page deleted because I want to vanish.--114.30.111.150 (talk) 16:58, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

You can only vanish if you are a registered user, see WP:VANISH. – ukexpat (talk) 17:19, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, your talk page is currently redlinked, meaning it has never existed. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 19:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, technically, if a page was previously deleted, it would be redlinked but still have existed at one point. However, in this case, User talk:114.30.111.150 does not exist and has an empty deletion log, so it's safe to assume that it has never existed. Also, the request here is the first edit from that IP address. My guess is that it's someone with a dynamic IP who didn't realize that their IP changed and wants the talk page of their old IP deleted. Pyrospirit (talk · contribs) 01:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

copyright laws

How old does a photo have to be to be in free domain? 80 years? --Bandita Chinchilla (talk) 19:09, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Its actually rather complicated, and it depends on when the picture was taken in order to determine when the copyright expires. See Public domain for some more information. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 19:13, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

It also depends on where the photo was taken, when the photographer died, whether it has previously been published, and (if so) where it was first published. —teb728 t c 21:44, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

backlinks

There's a town named Apples, Vaud. I noticed that a number of articles relating to Vaud linked to Apples which is, not surprisingly, a redirect to apple. I corrected the link in Template:Municipalities of the district of Morges, and 11 days later the pages using that template still show up among Pages that link to "Apples". Does that list update only when a page is saved, or what? —Tamfang (talk) 22:42, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

• Templates like that are only reloaded when the page is edited. - Mgm|^(talk) 23:37, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Actually, there should be automatic updates at some time when a template is changed. See Help:Job queue#Updating links tables when a template changes. Articles transcluding Template:Municipalities of the district of Morges were updated long ago to link to Apples, Vaud instead of Apples. I checked one in Google's cache and it had been updated by January 12. But Special:WhatLinksHere/Apples still lists some of these pages. This month there have been other reports that WhatLinksHere is not updated weeks later. The responses have just stated that the job queue is long. I don't know whether it can really take weeks to perform a job or something is wrong. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:19, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
    • I was one of those reporting long delays in these updates — I have template edits from almost a month ago still showing up in "What links here" at the previous address. Maybe these types of jobs take very low priority on the queue? Any idea where we could get the attention of someone with specific technical knowledge to weigh in on why this delay is getting longer? Mlaffs (talk) 01:24, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
      • My normal suggestion would be Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) but I know you have already posted there. I don't have a better suggestion. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:36, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

January 19

Putting an article in the mainspace

Resolved

 – ukexpat (talk) 01:11, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't have the ability to move articles to the mainspace. Could someone please look at my userpage and move the article referenced there to the mainspace for me? Thanks, H₂O Shipper 00:52, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I have moved it for you - it is at Fabulous Histories. DuncanHill (talk) 00:55, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I know I responded at my talkpage, but I wanted to say "thanks" here as well. I appreciate the help. H₂O Shipper 01:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

IRC is just like wikipedia: Jibberish to the casual eye

I see some stuff about IRC, but it still makes very little sense. How do you send a plain comment to the channel? Can you send something other than text, like unicode or even a picture? What is the full regestration and cloaking process? How do you connect to the server? Please respond on my talk page.--Ipatrol (talk) 02:30, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi. First you need to connect to the Freenode network (irc.freenode.net). To do that you can either download and use another program (like mIRC) or if you're using Firefox you can use the ChatZilla add-on. The WP:IRC tutorial might help you out a bit more. When you're connected you can join channels using the /join #channel command and type comments into the channel. You type all commands and comments into a box, usually at the bottom of the program's window. Wikipedia IRC channels are listed at WP:IRC. Anything you can type, you can send. You can send a link to an image, but not an image directly into the channel. Information on registering is here. Cloaking process is over here on Meta. If you need anything clarified feel free to ask. Regards, Matt (Talk) 04:45, 19 January 2009 (UTC) (also posted over on your talk page)

AUTHOR OF SAN LUIS OBISPO DE TOLOSA ARTICLE

My daughter is doing mission project on the above menitoned mission can you offer information for bibliography purposes on who wrote the article on the San Luis Obispo de Tolosa mission found on your website.… —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.190.251.10 (talk) 02:34, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

You could look in the "history" tab to see the people who contributed, but its likely to number in the hundreds. Wikipedia is a project created by MILLIONS of people. See Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia for more information on how to properly cite Wikipedia articles. I would also recommend that your daughter find the sources listed in the article, and use those for further research as well. There is likely to be better information in the original sources than anything found at Wikipedia. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:40, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Merging two (or three) articles

Resolved

 – ukexpat (talk) 18:36, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I am currently working on article Pope John Paul II. One comment which came up in discussion was that the article was too long (see discussion on talk page) to be considered seriously for Featured Article. We have been gradually shortening the article, by moving information into daughter articles. I proposed moving the Further Reading section into a daughter article. On agreement I created Pope John Paul II - Further Reading with the rather long book list. I immediately had a proposal to merge this with existing article Cultural references to Pope John Paul II, which I agreed with.

Another thought I had was to merge three of the daughter articles articles: Cultural references to Pope John Paul II, List of places named for Pope John Paul II and the new article Pope John Paul II - Further Reading into one article, as they cover very similar material.

I've never merged an article into another before, and am not quite sure about what the correct procedure is to do it.

To merge the new article Pope John Paul II - Further Reading into Cultural references to Pope John Paul II, I guess I would just 'copy and paste'.

However, for all three I imagine it is more complicated because of the individual history of each article. Would this need an administrator to help?

Your advice would be much appreciated. Thank you. -- Marek.69 ^talk 02:48, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi Marek. When we merge we don't need to do history merges as well. No administrator intervention is normally required. What is very important though, is that the merge complies with the GFDL, by 1) keeping the page history of the original (mergefrom) article, which we do by redirecting to the merge target (mergeto) once the merge is completed (or in rare cases, leave a disambiguation page in place); and 2) That when you save the mergeto article with the merged material, you include in your edit summary a clear note detailing the origin of the material and linking to the mergefrom article. So yes, you do just cut and paste, but there's more to it than that. More detail can be found at Help:Merging and moving pages and you should read that as I have only emphasised the more important GFDL compliance parts. If you treat each merge as separate and do each one separately there's no real difference between merging one article into another, and merging multiple into one. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 05:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I took a quick look at this. In my opinion, a merge would not be proper. How would you would merge these articles without giving the impression that the further reading section existed merely to support the pop culture section? You further reading article is a bibliography, and the precedent is to name these "Bibliography of foo"; see Bibliography of Harry S. Truman for example. The pop culture article needs a lot of work. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 14:15, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice, I think I'll rename it to Bibliography of Pope John Paul II for the time being. Marek.69 ^talk 18:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

soceity

what is informative soceity? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.48.147.2 (talk) 03:04, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean the Information Society? --Cameron Scott (talk) 03:06, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Having one user account across Wikipedia.

I just read about being able to sign into multiple, if not all, Wiki, with my main Wiki account. I cannot find that article or topic now, nor do I remember where to go to actually sign into all accounts. I am on two now. Could you please help me accomplish that task, if I do remember it correctly? ~ Di Wolfe (talk) 03:06, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Unified login. CHeers! --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:21, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Put this link on your user page: WP:EIW, and then you will always be able to find everything you remember reading about Wikipedia. --Teratornis (talk) 20:55, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Help me

Hi,

I have recently created an account in Wikipedia with the user name being Bedfordgroup.

I have written the article on the user page and then I pressed save but when I do a search for what I have just written, nothing comes up. Why is this? How do I make the article live? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.101.29.98 (talk) 04:38, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi and welcome to Wikipedia. What you wrote can be found here. Not to make you feel unwelcome, but it might be deleted because it seems to be advertising the company it is about. The username Bedfordgroup also seems to be promotional in nature (which violates our username policy) so it might be blocked. You might like to read WP:COI, WP:SPAM and WP:FAQ/Organization before continuing. Regards, Matt (Talk) 04:50, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I see you've submitted a request to be renamed, but it was declined. Is there another username you'd like? You can submit another rename request by clicking here (but make sure you're logged in under Bedfordgroup). Regards, Matt (Talk) 04:58, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Can't log in

Resolved

 – ukexpat (talk) 14:10, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

The IP I am using now isn't blocked. I am using firefox. But I can't log in. Please help. Thanks. --203.177.74.138 (talk) 05:24, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

• Are you getting any error messages we can use to see what's going on? - Mgm|^(talk) 05:29, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

• Nothing. I've just installed firefox. When I log in using explorer, it does. Is there's something wrong with the software? settings? Please help me. I prefer firefox. --203.177.74.138 (talk) 05:32, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

• Well, assuming it's not a widespread problem then all we can fall back on is standard troubleshooting procedure. Purge your cache, upgrade Firefox if it is not the most recent, and maybe try to clear out Firefox's store of cookies (in Tools -> Clear Private Data). Also, if you are letting the browser enter a saved password then make sure it has saved the correct password. —Noah 05:40, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

• Oh thank you. --203.177.74.138 (talk) 05:44, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

• Thanks. It works. --203.177.74.138 (talk) 05:52, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

U K Culture

Please tell me that how i can get the information u k culture —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abhishek211 (talk • contribs) 05:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

By reading the article Culture of the United Kingdom, its references and external links. –Capricorn42 (talk) 05:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

• Well, start here and maybe end about here. No, just kidding. This page is for helping you use Wikipedia, you may want to go check out the Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities. —Noah 05:57, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

HELP

I am new and do not know the uses of this site can someone help? please —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.189.188.231 (talk) 06:06, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

There is an article here that explains a lot about how to cite things WP:Cite Ched (talk) 06:21, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi, this is Wikipedia, a free online encyclopedia. You will get all the information about this site in the linked articles. –Capricorn42 (talk) 06:26, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps you might want to look at Wikipedia:Welcome, or Wikipedia:Introduction, or maybe both. Xenon54 (talk) 12:35, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Why did the Wiki for the RSS Reader FeedGhost get deleted?

There does not appear to be any reason that can be seen for its deleteion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AKAJohnDoe (talk • contribs) 06:33, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

FeedGhost was deleted by Kingboyk per CSD#a7 (notability concerns). You can ask for a deletion review –Capricorn42 (talk) 06:41, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

badminton

What is the size of a badminton court? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.98.36.232 (talk) 07:56, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Badminton#Playing_court_dimensions –Capricorn42 (talk) 08:20, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

This page is for questions about using Wikipedia. If you have any other general knowledge questions, please ask them at the reference desk. —teb728 t c 08:32, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

does Wikipedia has any feature which enables internal discussion forum

Hi, I searched the Wikipedia archives regarding this, but didn't find anything. Does Wikipedia has any feature which enables it to be used as internal discussion (for corporate users) forum, or we need to install Mediawiki or other CMS on our Intranet. Shambhu.1980 (talk) 10:25, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and any discussion here is with the aim of improving the encyclopedia. Discussion here is also always public. If you want to discuss things in private, or discuss things not related to Wikipedia, you'll have to do it elsewhere. Algebraist 10:28, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

You'd need to install a private wiki software to communicate in an intranet, yes. -- Mentisock 12:32, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

You seem to be confusing MediaWiki, the software used to build Wikipedia, and the encyclopedia itself. In short, yes, the software has the capability to do what you want, and no you cannot use this website for that purpose. But you can install the MediaWiki software elsewhere, and use it for exactly the purpose you are describing. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 12:43, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Redirects

Do redirects that point to deleted articles get deleted automatically? -- Mentisock 12:32, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

No. Every article needs to be deleted individually. Which specific article (or redirect) do you need help with? --Jayron32.talk.contribs 12:41, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

You can use {{Db-redirnone}} to get them speedy deleted under CSD criteria G8. Chamal ^talk 12:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

• Or you could link it to some other suitable target. - Mgm|^(talk) 13:55, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

How to code a telnet link (telnet://1.1.1.1) on a wiki page

We use a wiki at work and I'm moving an html website to the wiki. The wiki does not accept the telnet://x.x.x.x shortcut. Is wiki capable of creating a telnet link like html does?

Thank you

Ok, so I see the telnet links work on wikipedia.org, but they aren't working on our wiki. Is there an update that will make these links work on our site?

--Breakingaway (talk) 13:57, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

This page is only for questions about Wikipedia. It sounds like you have a problem with MediaWiki, the software that runs wikis like Wikipedia, a question which unfortunately cannot be answered here. Try asking at the MediaWiki support desk, or #mediawiki IRC or the mediawiki-l mailing list. Xenon54 (talk) 15:06, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

The Technical Desk at the Village Pump may also be able to help as well. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 22:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

BALLARAT RED DEVILS

I have now been wiating for basically a week and have had no answer to the question that i asked relating to "why is the Ballarat Red Devils had a speedy deletion still on the page that we are trying to start.

Duncan

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Rduncansmith" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rduncansmith (talk • contribs) 14:05, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

All organizations that have an article on Wikipedia must be notable, which means they have received in-depth coverage in independent reliable sources. It sounds like your article didn't show that. I would suggest working on the article in a sandbox (which I can set up for you) before moving the article to the main Wikipedia space. Cheers! TN‑X-Man 14:12, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Ballarat red devils has been speedily deleted (that's why it's a redlink) under A7 of the speedy deletion criteria because it was an Article about a group or club, which does not assert notability. If you wish to work on the article in your user space, please contact the admin who deleted it, Orangemike. – ukexpat (talk) 14:20, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Table coding on Juliette Lewis

Resolved

 – ukexpat (talk) 18:39, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I just noticed that the filmogrphy table on Juliette Lewis is a little wonky. My table coding skills are zero so would someone more expert than I please take a look at it? Thanks. – ukexpat (talk) 15:03, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Done, it was a stray closing bracket. Woody (talk) 15:07, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, there are still some missing vertical lines between cells - well it's not clear whether they are missing or just different table layout formats - but you are a scholar and a gentleman for looking at it so quickly! – ukexpat (talk) 17:16, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Tables go a bit wonky if you are zoomed in or out. Try Crtl 0 to reset your view. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 18:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Fixed - a server purge and browser cache bypass did the trick. Thanks all. – ukexpat (talk) 18:39, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

3RR Question

Does the 3 revert rule apply if you're reverting a vandal who undid your vandalism reversion 3 times? TopGearFreak 16:05, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Absolutely not, as long as it is blatant vandalism. See WP:3RR#Exceptions for further information. Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 16:07, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

And if they keep it up, I would suggest reporting them to WP:AIV. TN‑X-Man 16:20, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Why not create a new part of Wikipedia where users could combine words to make new ones?

Resolved

 – ukexpat (talk) 17:50, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I recently tried to put a word I created out of two words in and it got deleted pretty fast. Now, it may just be me but I think user's should be allowed to do that, not necessarily on Wikipedia itself. But I think it would be fun for people and they could vote on the words (people could search by typing in 1+ of the words in the combo).

I would appreciate it if people could give feedback on this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thatoneguywhomightbethatguy (talk • contribs) 17:11, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Interesting idea, but Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a neologism depository. Perhaps a blog, or another less-serious Wiki. Tan | 39 17:13, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

yeah, I meant a less-serious Wiki —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thatoneguywhomightbethatguy (talk • contribs) 17:33, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Urban Dictionary might be what you are looking for. They too have an "accept or reject" process though. –Capricorn42 (talk) 17:16, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

thanks, that was what I was looking for. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thatoneguywhomightbethatguy (talk • contribs) 17:36, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Fireside Bowl

Resolved

Hello, I am the owner of Fireside Bowl last week I rewrote the history of Fireside Bowl and put it into Wikipedia, but it did not get formatted on the page can you fix it? Thanks, Jim Lapinski —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.1.211.90 (talk) 18:37, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Done. –Capricorn42 (talk) 18:40, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Possibly redundant categories

Just wondering about any Wiki policy I might have missed on categories. In adding nationality cats to various fashion model articles, I've found that many will be tagged as either, for example, "Finnish models" or "Finnish female models." But in looking at the category, it seems that "Finnish models" implies that they're female (as the lists in either cat are identical, with the few male models limited to their own subcat). Doesn't that make categories like "Finnish female models" redundant (since "Finnish models" is the same list) and therefore deletable? Or is it policy to maintain the divisions based on gender; i.e., if there's a male one there has to be a female one?  Mbinebri  ^{talk ←} 21:01, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I would guess that "Finnish female models" is a subcategory of "Finnish models" so better to use just the more specific category "Finnish female models". – ukexpat (talk) 21:10, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Categories tend to start out general, and then later other people create more specific subcategories, but they don't always migrate pages from the general categories into the more specific subcategories. In general, the categorization of a given page reflects some person's knowledge of the category structure at the time when he or she categorized the page. (People cannot see into the future to know which better categories will exist someday.) Back then, the more specific category(ies) might not have existed. When people change the structure of categories with many pages in them, they may like to use bot programs to assist with recategorizing the pages. See WP:EIW#Cat and especially WP:EIW#Catbot. --Teratornis (talk) 22:03, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I need to know who the last one to edit a page was

I am doing a project and I need to know who the last one to edit The Dark Knight(film) page was. How do I do this? Thank you very much! Harrypotterfanfreak (talk) 22:41, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

To view the revisions in the page history, click the "history" tab at the top of the page. This will show the time, date, editor in a list. For a direct link, see here, which shows that the last revision was made by 70.224.37.251 (talk · contribs). Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 22:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

By the way, if you want to cite a Wikipedia page, go to the page and click on "Cite this page" from the toolbox links on the left hand side of the page, which will provide pre-formatted citations in various styles.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:30, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Undo of vandalism: one step instead of two, how?

Here I reverted vandalism by an IP but since SineBot had already added a signature for the IP I had to work backwards chronologically, first undoing the SineBot edit and then the edit by the IP. Was there a way I could have accomplished this in one step?--Goodmorningworld (talk) 23:07, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that is irritating! There's no way to rollback past SineBot, so there are three options. One is using popups to revert back to the revision before the vandalism. Two is using Twinkle, going back to the revision before the vandalism and clicking "restore this revision". Three is to go back to the revision before the vandalism and save the old revision. Each does number three in a way, but Twinkle/Popups are a much faster way of doing it. :) Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 23:12, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

If, from the history page, you click on the "(cur)" link next to an edit, it will show the diff between that edit and the current version of the page, which should have an "undo" link on it to allow you to revert back to that version. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 00:41, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I use PeterSymonds' third option: select the History tab, go back to the last good version and select that one. Then select Edit this page, and save it. Add an edit summary saying Reverting (#) edits to last version by (User name or IP address). Dolphin51 (talk) 02:52, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

January 20

help with Listusers

Is there a way to list only anonymous IP users? I'd like to see a list of all current and past IP users that have at least 1 edit in their contributions history. OlEnglish (talk) 02:42, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately, there is no straightforward way to do this. You would have to download a database dump, and write a script to compile the list. Almost certainly way more effort that it's worth. But we can always help you better if you tell us what you are ultimately trying to accomplish. Cheers, — Jake Wartenberg 04:34, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Just for curiosity's sake :) OlEnglish (talk) 04:43, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Italicize shows and club nights?

Hey Help Desk! I was just wondering if anyone knew what the policy is for italicizing titles of shows, club nights etc. I've looked through Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(titles)#Italics but these items don't seem to be listed in either the "do" or "don't" section.

The sentence that prompted this was "[...] resident shows include the Kronenbourg Krater Comedy Club, The Kroon Kat Lounge, The Treason Show and Bent Double."

Should the show names be italicized, have "quotation" marks around them, or left as plain title case text? Pretzels^Talk! 02:49, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, the first two sound like nightclubs and we don't do anything to names of restaurants, bars, pubs, etc. Dismas|^(talk) 05:20, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Searching the deletion logs

Is there a way to search using wild cards in the deletion logs? I know a category about guest stars on The Simpsons has been created and deleted in the past, at least twice, but I can't find mention of either right now because I can't recall the exact phrasing of the category name. Dismas|^(talk) 03:00, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Does this help: Category:Simpsons cast members; Category:Simpsons guest stars (CFD discussion for this one)? I found these through the unscientific method of going to List of guest stars on The Simpsons, picking a few at random that weren't likely to have large edit histories, and surveying a few versions during 2005, 2006 and 2007, scanning the bottom of the pages for red-linked categories.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 05:04, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh, here's another that was referred to in one of the deletion log entries above: Category:The Simpsons cast members.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 05:13, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I eventually found them by rather unscientific means as well. I trolled through my contributions list 5000 entries at a time and, using Firefox, searched for the term "categor" until I found a reference to one of them. That CFD had the past iterations listed. Dismas|^(talk) 05:18, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

how can I get the lyrics of songs using the wikipedia?

I want to get the lyrics of Lara Fabian's songs using the Wikipedia.Chrissy67 (talk) 06:28, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Easy answer, you can't. Most lyrics are protected by copyright and therefore not "includable", in this case I'd say, google is your friend — CHANDLER^#10 — 06:32, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] buttons disappeared on Wikipedia talk:Help desk

Resolved

Could someone please fix Wikipedia talk:Help desk so that the [edit] buttons for sections reappear. Thank you.--Commander Keane (talk) 10:37, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Done, by editing a recently transcluded page.[4] PrimeHunter (talk) 11:44, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

jetting a motorcycle

what is jetting a motorcycle? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.218.52.33 (talk) 11:14, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

You could try a Google search on jetting motorcycle. Have you tried the science section of Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in answering knowledge questions there; this help desk is only for questions about using Wikipedia. For your convenience, here is the link to post a question there: click here. I hope this helps. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:57, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Problem with coordinates

I have been attempting to add coordinates to User:EJF/Sandbox/Mullaghcarn, but "Expression error: Unexpected < operator Expression error: Unexpected < operator" shows, both at the top of the article and in the coordinates section of the infobox. Any help to fix this would be appreciated. Thanks, EJF (talk) 11:47, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not a template coder but it appears to work if lats and longs values at {{Infobox Mountain}} are added, although the documentation sounds like they are supposed to be optional. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:32, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help! It seems in order now. Cheers, EJF (talk) 13:02, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

About db-author

Should {{db-author}} be used on substantial articles such as Parkways of Louisville, Kentucky and Bank Night? It seems to me like the user is fed up with the "bureaucratic people" (evident here) and is trying to eliminate his contributions to the project to make a point. Grsz¹¹ 13:53, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

What ever happened to assuming good faith? I happen to have decided, thanks to your AFD nomination of an article I wrote (my you seem interested in my edits for some reason) that neither of these articles were about things that had been the subject of wide coverage. Indeed they aren't, just stray passages in books and a few dusty newspaper articles. --Rividian (talk) 14:06, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

They were both good enough to be featured on the main page. Rather than deciding something on your own, why not nominate it for deletion if you really feel they aren't notable. Grsz¹¹ 14:08, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

This is within the spirit of db-author - when the author realizes at some later date that they created the article by mistake, and no one else has added anything of substance. Featuring on the main page is irrelevant, there's no real quality assessment there, they just look at length and the existence of a reference. --Rividian (talk) 14:09, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

No comment on this particular situation, but {{db-author}} isn't an entitlement. See Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion/Explanations - it "[d]oes not apply to long-standing articles or quality articles not created by mistake. Such articles were duly submitted and released by the author and have become part of the encyclopedia, obviating others who otherwise would have written an article on the subject." Attempts by an editor to revoke the GFDL permission they gave when submitting the work don't work either. Bencherlite^Talk 14:13, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Well I'm glad you're not commenting on this particular situation... --Rividian (talk) 14:15, 20 January 2009 (UTC)