Talk:Gytha of Wessex

Old talk

I reverted this page to include the information about her sons -- like most royal women of her day, Gytha is best known in terms of her father, her husband, and her sons. Missi 07:26, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

More old talk

Why is it assumed that she followed Godfrey on crusade? That's very interesting, since there wasn't much English involvement in the First Crusade, and as far as I know, zero involvement from Kiev etc. Was she related to Godfrey? Adam Bishop 01:47, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Gytha is not mentioned by early Russian chroniclers, who generally had little interest for their princes' wives. But St Panteleon Cloister in Cologne, whose pateric contains the date of Gytha's date, preserves the story of St Panteleon's miracle with king Harald of Russia (i.e., Mstislav the Great). The story is contained in two 12th-century books: Liber Bibliothecae s. Pantaleonis and Cod. Wallraf.

The Cologne story recounts how Harald-Mstislav was saved by St Panteleon from sure death after a hunting accident. Indeed, Mstislav the Great was the first Russian prince to venerate that saint: he built the first church to St Panteleon in Russia and christened his eldest son Izyaslav Mstislavich as Panteleon. The story is concluded by info that Harald's pious mother went to Jerusalem to glorify God for her son's recovery. /"Et mater fidelis peregrinationis votum gaudens adinplevit"/.

The hunting accident is generally dated to 1097, and Mstislav's recovery - to 1098. Hence, Gytha should have went to Jerusalem later that year and most probably died on her perilous way, as Vladimir Monomakh married another woman a year later. It could be speculated that it is the news of the Crusade that inspired her to make a pilgrimage. As you know, Gotfried and most of his Crusaders came from Flanders. Gytha spent her youth in Flanders, both her mother and sister being buried there, so there is nothing improbable that she could have met either Gotfried or his relatives.

Several years later, Gotfried's brother Baldwin I entertained at his court with great ceremonies the Russian hegumen Daniel, whose notes about the Holy Land and Baldwin's court are considered a major monument of Old Russian literature.--Ghirlandajo 18:33, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Neat, thanks. I see also that Godfrey's mother was English as well. Adam Bishop 01:36, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Whaat. How was Godfrey of Bouillon's mother Englishwoman? She is usually said to have been Ida of Lorraine... 217.140.193.123 21:10, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant grandmother. Adam Bishop 21:33, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Ahm. I thought his father's first wife was (but WHO was grandmother?) - I had a nightmarish thought that there are now claims that Godfrey was born already during 1st marrioage and was NOT a blood relation to Lorraines from whom his lands however were inherited. 217.140.193.123 23:00, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Wait, I don't mean that either...I keep misreading the Eustace II of Boulogne article. Eustace's first wife, as you said, was English. Whatever, it's not that important anyway! Adam Bishop 03:18, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Births of her children

In reponse to the edit by Ghirlandajo, I did not consider the birthdates to be pure speculation at all. There exists some good evidence as to the approximate birthdates of Gytha's children, as detailed below. Gytha and Vladimir were married sometime around 1075, maybe a year or two earlier or later.

Mstislav was their eldest son, and the heir of his father.

Izyaslav was the godson of Oleg of Chernigov (see letter quoted in the Lavrentievsky chronicle sent to Oleg by Vladimir after Izyaslav's death, describing Izyaslav as "my child and yours"). Oleg lived in Chernigov with Vladimir in 1077 and 1078 before rebelling against his uncle Vsevolod in spring 1078. Therefore, for Oleg to be his godfather, Izyaslav was probably born in 1077 or 1078.

Svyatoslav was probably the second eldest surviving child of Vladimir in 1113, when he was made prince of Smolensk and Pereyaslavl. Izyaslav was already dead then.

Yaropolk was made prince of Pereyaslavl in 1114, and was probably the next in order of birth down from Sviatoslav.

Vyacheslav was the longest lived of Gytha's sons, as he did not die until 1154. He was active from 1097 when he brought reinforcements to Mstislav in Suzdal. Assuming he was as young as twelve then, that would still place his birth around 1085.

Missi 00:52, 24 August 2005 (UTC)