Talk:Tien Shinhan

Tien

Can someone make Tien redirect to this page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Buster Sword (talk • contribs)

Already done, seems to be a while ago. --Zeno McDohl ^(talk) 00:55, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Incorrection

this page is incorrect.The book Dragon ball dayzenshuu 7 published in Japan france and Canada by Akira Toriyama says Tenshinhan is an alien and belongs to the race of three eyes or Triclops.

The game for PS2 DBZ Budokai tenkaichi in the biographies says the same.Victtorio 16:31, 15 July 2006 (UTC)Victtorio

Those are pretty far from cannonical sources. For now, let's put that in the trivia if you want to add it. (Keep in mind that, in the manga, Tien also isn't the first warrior with the ability to divide himself, Purple Ninja can do the same). Beowulph 23:49, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

For me is very clear you never read dragon ball dayzenshuu 7 where Toriyama explains the difference between Tenshinhan technique and krilin piccolo or purple ninja body divisions and because of that Toriyama and his team gave different names for that techniques.Look, in the other wikipedias like japanese french or portuguese this situation is very well explained only in the english this regrettable situation happens. Probably you don t know french or japanese,but if you don´t believe me i have the book and i can give you the link of the original french version and you can check it,then you will see the alien condition of Tenshinhan is a fact in Japan and Europe, i am trying to give to the american fanbase the true.However the decision is yours. Dayzenshuu 7 is the only book where akira toriyama states everything he couldn t put in the manga for different reasons and he writes an introduction explaining that.In any part of manga or anime says Tenshinhan is human.But to add that in the trivia is a start.Thank you,i wait your answer..Victtorio 01:33, 16 July 2006 (UTC)Victtorio

Well,i saw your correction in trivia,it is obvious you refuse the introduction (made by Akira toriyama )and the several parts (like alien races in dragon ball/alien races on earth,the explanation of tenshinhan techniques)of daizenshuu 7 where they say very directly tenshinhan is an alien. For you are only suggestions.Ok,but remember this is the only wikipedia or country where Tenshinhan is considered an human all the others Japan and Europe and respective wikipedias say tenshinhan is an alien.A good day for you Victtorio 14:06, 16 July 2006 (UTC)Victtorio

• Toriyama didn't write the Daizenshû himself, but he has read it, enjoyed it, and he approved the book for release. We also know that he himself wrote some paragraphs in the book. Thus it's a canonical source. However we can wonder how the "tenshinhan is an extraterrestrial" thing was really usefull, as it has never been brought forth in the manga. But since Gokû's tail makes him an extraterrestrial, why couldn't Tenshinhan's 3rd eye make him alien also ? And the manga didn't specifically state that Ten' was a human. Thus the alien explanation is at least coherent and it should be mentionned in the infobox, at least in the form "human/alien". Folken de Fanel 18:54, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Why the debate? I tried my best to word it in a way to say that it's true that it says that, but not nescessarily that it's actually true...

The Budokai PS2 game says that Tenshinhan comes from an unknown alien race, hence his third eye and ability to divide himself. So Victtorio is right. It also says that Chaozu is some sort of Vampire, and not human. Hakkinen 15:22, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes but it's not because it was written in a lower canonical source that is not dumb. Well, "get over it" yourself, in the manga, Ten' was always a human and Toriyama never said anything about Ten being an "alien". As for Chaozu, he was never labelled as a "vampire" in the original work (and honestly, he really doesn't look like a vampire).

So while there are these strange theories in lower canon source, they're not always relevent, and if they deserve to be mentionned in the article, they must not interfere with the rest of the article, which is mainly based on the original manga, in which Ten' is a human. Folken de Fanel 16:48, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Right. So does Daizenshuu book 7 count as a "lower canon source" as well? Hakkinen 10:03, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

The Daizenshuu are full of inconsistancies and fallacies. They are good for refrence material but nothing in them can be accepted as accurate without evidence from other sources such as the manga itself.172.166.22.144 03:50, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

The manga is full of inconsistancies and fallacies too.The Daizenshuu 7 is coherent with the manga. Except for the Raditz number which is only a typo, as Toriyama did many times in his manga. Wake up, you're not Toriyama and he approved the encyclopedia. In the introduction,akira said he could find in daizenshuu 7 the details he forgot to mention in the manga like tien's alien condition. Some people hate daizenshuu 7, because tien as an alien destroys yamcha statement about the strongest human.Tien was a lot stronger than krillin (in the entire series), because Super buu said tien was pretty strong and previously he faced krillin and ain't said nothing.Super buu statement is above yamcha(tien wasn´t there) coz super buu saw tien and krillin and yamcha only saw krillin. Then comes daizenshuu 7 to enlight this situation created by fans. I think the theory about meditation is funny and pathetic,because it is an unsourced statement.A nonsense fan made.The last word ALWAYS belong to Akira toriyama.Wake up he is the creator of the show. Several times the book states tien is an alien. The origin of the characters is an important thing.There isn't any author in the world who approves something about his work with an huge mistake like that. There isn´t one single word in the manga or anime about it.The Pl's are a different story and sometimes subjective or a plot device. So, tien is an alien and that is a fact.I guess,some of you are above Akira Toriyama.

Eh, just leave it like it is with a note in trivia. The manga and anime never say anything about him (and Chaozu) not being human. Abnormal humans, but this is a world that is governed by a talking humanoid dog. Shapeshifting animal people are natives. Goku was excepted as an odd boy with a tail and not pegged as monster or alien because animal/people hybrids exist on Toriyama's Earth. Onikage725

The Daizenshû is much like the "Dune Encyclopedia" insofar as canon is concerned. In both cases, the author found such a work amusing, and thus approved their publishing. However, in that same line of reasoning, "Dragon Ball GT" holds about just as much merit canonically, and I needn't bring up why that'd be a problem. And - never - is Ten's origin elaborated upon in the series. Otherwise, simply reference the chapter. The Magistratus 18:21, 3 August 2007 (UTC) The author found daizenshuu 7 perfect not amusing(read the introduction made in the D.7 by toriyama),don't replace author's words in the dragon ball Z Encyclopedia introduction with your personal wishes.

tenshinhan or krillin

Who is stronger krillin or tenshinhan please support your opinions with evidence. User:Kami-Sama

I would say that Kuririn is stronger. Yamucha once stated that Kuririn was the strongest human being in the universe. So its only logical that Kuririn is stronger than tien. But then again, you cant really trust yamucha can ya?-SSJ Gokan 00:12, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Tenshinhan is actually stronger than Kuririn, though it may not seem like it because he never gets to show his strength. I would class Tenshinhan the second strongest human after Uub.

There is no evidence either way. Please keep opinions out of the article. Beowulph 11:04, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I think Kuririn is the strongest human from the sayian saga to the cell saga, but he stopped traning somtime before the Buu saga and Tenshinhan continued to train. Meaning Tien would be the strongest human by the end of DragonBall Z. --Solid Fox 23:55, 7 October 2006 (UTC) Tenshinhan is always the strongest one by far. There is no evidence either way. Please keep opinions out of the article.

inn the anime when the various characters are all blasting cells kamehameha they were blownnaway in order of power lowest to highest with tein second to last, last being piccolo. not proof enough for the article but evidence 209.244.31.40 (talk) 21:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Tenshinhan has always been stronger than Kuririn, it even says in the Saiyan Saga. When Bulma reads out the Z-Fighters' power levels, it goes like this:

• Kuririn: 206
• Tenshinhan: 250
• Yamucha: 177
• Muten Roshi: 139

And in the Daizenshuu, which I now accept as a proper DBZ guide, it is stated that the Z-Fighters' power level is the Saiyan Saga is this:

• Kuririn: 1,770
• Tenshinhan: 1,830
• Yamucha: 1,480

There you go. And Tenshinhan has proven capable to withstand great feats, such as holding out for a while against Nappa with one arm before blasting him with a one-handed Tri-Beam, single-handedly taking out both Butta and Jheese on King Kai's planet, bravely preventing Cell from absorbing #18 with his Neo Tri-Beam and even deflecting Super Boo's blast with his Tri-Beam. What has Kuririn done? Been whipped by Raditz's tail, managed to give Nappa a cut on his cheek with his Kienzan before getting taken down with one blast, defeated with one kick by Reacoom (leaving Gohan to do all the hard work), chopped off Freeza's tail with a Kienzan, only to get blown up by Freeza -- oh, and how can I forget Kuririn being the only one to chicken out against the Androids while everyone else joined in to help Vegeta. I still like Kuririn though. Son Gohan (talk) 12:04, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

At the OVA 9, which is the Bojack one, at the Tenkaichi Dai Budokai, Kuririn states that he is able to defeat Tenshin-han and Yamcha, when he notice that Trunks, Piccolo and Gohan are also participating.

Also, Yamcha said that Kuririn is the strongest human, and this is the only concrete statement about who is the strongest human, and it is on the Manga, so it's absolutely canon. And considering the fillers, Kuririn is also stronger, most due to his training at the Otherworld, where he even tried to attack Kid Buu while everone else besides Pikkon(Paikuhan) was scared and running away. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.48.4.201 (talk) 17:25, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Tenshinhan is stronger than Kuririn, that Bojack movie is non-canon and doesn't mean anything. It didn't appear in the manga. And Yamcha saying that Kuririn was the strongest human doesn't mean it's true. He didn't know where Tenshinhan was and didn't know he was still training. It's probably because Kuririn trained for the Tournament that he thought that, and the Otherworld filler, it's filler and is unreliable. They add stupid things such as Yamcha beating Olibu and contradicting things like Goku matching Pikkon in strength when he stated in the manga that there wasn't anyone comparable to him in the afterlife. Tenshinhan is stronger than Kuririn, but Kuririn is stronger than Yamcha. Son Gohan (talk) 12:51, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Third Eye

Does anyone know why Tenshinhan has three eyes if he's a human? I mean, the thing blinks and everything. Sasuke-kun27 17:21, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

It says somewhere in Tenshinhan's scouter data for the DBZ: Legacy Of Goku 2 game on GBA that through intense meditation on the pineal gland, you can achieve a third eye. Maybe that's the reason that Tenshinhan and Chaozu have telepathic powers, they meditate. And yeah, I know you can't really take video games seriously, but what other reason is there? Son Gohan (talk) 12:07, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

It says in the beginning, he's likely based off of the God Erlang Shen from Journey to the West. As for why in the Dragon Ball universe, that's never explained. Beowulph 17:27, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Alright, thanks. It's just wierd how a human has three eyes. Then again, you have aliens who look like humans with tails and can change into giant apes by looking at a full moon. Sasuke-kun27 18:19, 23 August 2006 (UTc)

haha--138.88.90.164 09:17, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

In the ps2 game Tenchikai Budokai his bio says Tein has a third eye because he is of alien desent. --Solid Fox 23:39, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I thought he said it was because he'd reached enlightenment. I guess not.-SSJ Gokan 11:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

The kanji characters of Tenshinhan (天津飯) probably do not mean, as stated, "Heaven's Moisted Rice"; Instead 天津 is a city in China (TianJin) and probably 天津飯 means "rice cooked in TianJin style"

wHAT THAT MEAN?

that third eye scares me. but then again you have a gum creature that can turn people into candy, and a white and purple creature that can destroy a planet with one tap of his finger, and machines desgined to look like humans, and a weird bug creature that can absorb people through his tail, and a weird alien that can switch bodies with people who is currently a frog, and a dragon that can turn into mist who was cut in half and sealed into 2 pale elves with mohawks, too.

In both the Ps2 game and my beckett magazineit states he has the third eye becuase he is a normal human being, but he became enlightened. Just wanted to clear that up. - Prede (talk) 02:57, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Since you have this reliable magazine, why not beef up the article? Do you know how to use this 'cite book' layout? We can get this page to GA in no time. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 06:26, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I do have the book(I never said both games, I said my game and my Magazine. "BOTH MY GAME AND MY MAGAZINE"), but I'm not sure on how to cite printed stuff. I'll read that, post some information, and try and fix up the article in a bit. - Prede (talk) 19:26, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Note that you don't have to use all those mark-ups. Use the cite book tags from Naruto Uzumaki as a sample. Does that help? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 19:35, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes it helps. Here is the info for the magazine :

Brewer, Mark (2002). The Best of DragonBall Z. Beverly Hills , California: Claire B. Amano. pp. 2–6. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)

- Prede (talk) 19:47, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Great. Does your book clear up that whole him being an alien controversy? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 19:49, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Well what it says is " question: Why does Tien have a third eye. Answer : He has a third eye from becoming enlightened " That's about all it says about his third eye, it says other stuff though like all official power levels given from Toriyama himself, starting from Goku's power level in the beginning of Dragon Ball (10) all the way to Goku's power level at SS 1. It list the "good guys" and the "bad guys" that were main characters in between all that, and it has a little bit of the story - Prede (talk) 20:00, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Think you could finish including the rest today? I might do some copy-editing and other fixes later once you finish, then it's straight to a WP:GAC review. Thoughts? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:06, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good. BUT what else would you like me to add. I could post his power levels at certain points in the anime, but I don't know where you would like that. Other then that I wouldn't know what else you would like me to do. What else would you want on the article or sourced. - Prede (talk) 20:09, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

The enlightenment reference would be nice within the content (that Daizenshū citation should be taken off, as no page number or ISBN is listed). The power levels, hmmm, I'll look into that when I return. Regards, Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:14, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Well I added, after the part talking about his eye, that he got it from becoming enlightened. As for deleting the other source I'll leave that up to you, sense the video game source is still good. I'll post the power levels right here (also I have Yamucha and the other characters power levels up to when Future Trunk apears)

 Tiens Power level at 22 Tenkaichi Budouki - 180
 Tiens Power level shortly after the fight with Radizt - 250
 Tiens Power level when Vegeta and Nappa Arive - 1,830

(Note Nappa says the Saibamen's Power level is the same as Raditz's. This is comparing apples and oranges. They're not exaclty the same, but they're in the same neighborhood Radizt - 1,500 Saibamen - 1,200) (Note Nappas Power Level is 4,000 and Frieza's Final form Max Power is only 530,000 Frieza says that his second form is over 1 million. That is simply psychological warfare and a bluff)

All of that is exaclty taken from the magazine, direct quotes, but from different parts. - Prede (talk) 20:29, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Freeza's first form power level is 530,000, Freeza's final form is 60,000,000 & Freeza's 100% maximum power in his final form is 120,000,000. Son Gohan (talk) 12:30, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll get back to this tomorrow (didn't think I'd get home so late). Right now it's watchlist checking, and off to bed. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 06:14, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

DBZ BT 1 lists tenshinhan as an alien and daizenshuu 7 states several times tenshinhan as an alien. The theory about enlightment is fan made and he must show scans about the book plus an encyclopedia revised and supervised by Toriyama and made by toriyama's manga staff is above this phantom book. Japanese wikipedia lists tenshinhan as an alien and this fanboy comes up with made up facts,please... english wikipedia is a joke,but everybody already knows it.Someone can give him a brain,lol. Statements without references made by fanboys=wikipedia,lol.Tenshinhan is in fact an alien.

I love these references : reference number 30=crap made by a fanboy,lol reference number 31=mark brewer(who the fuck is he?let me guess a japanese mangaka who worked with toriyama's staff,lol. This article is awesome,lol.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.23.133.163 (talk) 11:10, 6 April 2008 (UTC) 

If he is an alien then I suggest you post the daizenshuu 7 . If you post that and it shows he is an alien then we will put that up there. That will prove that he is an alien, and we will write that and source the daizenshuu 7. Otherise all your saying is nonsense, and I won't believe it. I can't understand you half the time. BUT Like I've been saying magazine (along with the video game) says he has the third eye from becoming enlightened. If this is incorrect please feel free to post controdicting info from the daizenshuu. Maybe both these sources made mistakse? They were printed by human beings after all. It is possible, but I doubt it. - Prede (talk) 19:30, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Very well,daizenshuu 7 isn't the only source where you can see tenshinhan as an alien. Official dragon ball magazine Norma Editorial number 2 also lists tenshinhan as an alien. Racial groups in daizenshuu 7 [URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/3716/gruposraciaisd7oy1.gif[/IMG][/URL] in dragon ball universe the 3 most important races are: the earthlings, sayajins and nameks,but other extraterrestrial races also appear in the story. People with specific skills like the yardrats metamols and the Three Eyes(mitsume jins) ancestors of tenshinhan. Les terriens=the earthlings Several aliens landed in the earth: They are the sayajins,nameks and the three eyes.

Shishin no ken:

[URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6541/shishinnokendg6.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Technique of the 4 bodys used by Tenshinhan against goku in the 23º budokai tenkaichi. One of the special skills made by the Three Eyes or triclops Race... His power however splits in four what becomes tenshinhan weaker. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.23.133.162 (talk) 14:56, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

In tenshinhan's bio also says he is an alien, i can also give you the page numbers and even the scans from dragon ball official magazine. Unfortunately everything will be useless,because a fanboy group in wikipedia decided daizenshuu 7 is not canon. However dragon ball official magazine also lists tenshinhan as an alien. These fanboys ignore this additional information about tenshinhan in copyrighted books,worse in the dragon ball daizenshuu 7 supervised by akira toriyama who is an idiot because he approved and revised a release where several times tenshinhan is listed as an alien. Congratulations, dragon ball project in wikipedia is awesome. Finally how do you explain the fact that japanese wikipedia and dragon ball official magazine and daizenshuu 7 lists tenshinhan as an alien? We have 3 sources here and one of them with Akira Toriyama supervision and revision. Can Akira Toriyama read? This encyclopedia says not one time but several times why tenshinhan is an alien and explains it(racial groups, bio section and techniques section). There is no room for mistakes. I don't know what video game are you talking about,however dragon ball Z budokai tenkaichi 1 lists tenshinhan as an alien.

Here is the link where some fans discuss the subject and Olivier Hague explains why tenshinhan is an alien.However Olivier never saw the information about Tenshinhan in dragon ball official magazine who reinforced daizenshuu 7 revelation about tenshin's origin. http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.php?t=3605&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=tenshinhan&start=60 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.23.133.162 (talk) 15:17, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I told you all ready if you post the daizenshuu 7 It could be considered a valid refference. I never said it's not cannon. Anyay I'm no "fanboy" . I don't really like Tien too much, I like Raditz and Yamcha, but whatever. I'll go through the rest of what you said later. - Prede (talk) 19:01, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I already posted the scans about tenshinhan in daizenshuu 7(french version),did i not? What do you want?More scans who state the same thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.23.133.163 (talk) 19:27, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I can't read french, and I haven't looked over everything you posted yet. I've been busy. But I will... Sorry - Prede (talk) 01:43, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Ok I looked over all the links. Acurding to those links, it is saying he is a decendent of an alien race. But I can't really read the french... But then the forum you linked questioned the daizenshuu. They say it may be an error. If the daizenshuu did not make a mistake then the game and my Bekket Magazine made a huge mistake. Either way one of them made a HUGE and odd error. I really don't know what to make of this. BUT thanks for posting the daizenshuu 7. I'm at a loss of what to do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Prede (talk • contribs) 23:56, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

They never said it may be an error simply some fanboys cannot accept informations out of the manga period even if toriyama is responsible for her.-Saxnot (talk) 23:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I put that Tein might be descendant from an ancient alien race, and also that he may be human as well. I am unsure how to source the Daizenshū, so if someone could do that for me, I'd appreciate it. This seems to be settled now, as settled as it ever will be that is. Look at how I added it, it should be good. Edit it/change it if needed. - Prede (talk) 02:31, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Good job prede,but if you want maybe it is better and more correct to saY "tenshinhan is an earthling who descends from an alien race

the mitsume Jin you can be an alien descendant and still an earthling- Saxnot (talk)

I changed the wording a little, and put he is an earthling. Look better? Thanks for the suggestion. I liked it ^.^ . Anything else feel free to suggest it. - Prede (talk) 19:22, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

HE IS NOT AN ALIEN, HE JUST HAS THREE EYES! Son Gohan (talk) 12:30, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Pictures

Fine, explain why they should stay. Please try to make it not pointless. Nemu 18:00, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Keep it civil Nemu. I personally believe it adds value and does not go over previously set limits for the amount of pictures per article. If you do not, and we can't reach a consensus then the best course of action would be to take it to the Wikiproject for a vote. Beowulph 18:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

The fair use policy only says we should use images to illustrate things that need to be. These pictures are here for the sake of being here, and serve no illustrational purpose. The limit only applies to pictures that serve a purpose. That's why most articles no longer have the pictures that the use to have. Nemu 18:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Really? It looks to me like it has roughly the same amount as the Goku, Vegeta, Freeza and Cell articles, not to mention the one on Buu. I would argue against their not serving any illustrating purpose, as they mostly show events that are definitive for the character.

Tell me, do we have a definition for what constitutes illustrating purpose? A new set limit on the number of pictures per article? Is there a policy I can refer to? Beowulph 18:37, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

If you didn't notice, all besides Freeza illustrate different looks of a character or an example of an attack (which is why I left them here). A picture has to show something being described. We don't need to see random events. Those are decorative. Nemu 18:46, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Pictures of different looks, and special attacks, are alright, but not specific moments? The pictures in question do show something being described in the text and one of the ones that you wanted to initially erase was a special attack. Regardless, can you provide me with the link that states that policy? Beowulph 18:50, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

WP:FU says "The material must contribute significantly to the article (e.g. identify the subject of an article, or specifically illustrate relevant points or sections within the text) and must not serve a purely decorative purpose."

Different looks of a character over a series are pretty helpful. Goku could probably use that GT group picture to cut them down a bit, but otherwise they illustrate the points(and the transformations are a pretty important part of the series). Random scenes do not. I guess attacks probably should also be removed. While it is sort of subjective, no one has ever gone against me for too long while clearing out other articles, so the general consensus seems to be that they don't help. Nemu 19:08, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Tell you what, there seems to be a pretty major revision going on at the Dragon Ball project. If it can be passed that each saga/movie article gets a characters section, this article can probably be distributed into them and removed entirely. Can we hold off until a decision is made there? Beowulph 15:15, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Dissemination

I'm starting to disperse the information on this page to the various saga pages, I think it can likely be made into a redirect to the List of Earthlings article. Beowulph 15:50, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Tenshinhan photo.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 09:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Power Levels

From the creator himself. Quoted from my Bekket Magazine.

 Tiens Power level at 22 Tenkaichi Budouki - 180
 Tiens Power level shortly after the fight with Radizt - 250
 Tiens Power level when Vegeta and Nappa Arive - 1,830

(Note Nappa says the Saibamen's Power level is the same as Raditz's. This is comparing apples and oranges. They're not exaclty the same, but they're in the same neighborhood Radizt - 1,500 Saibamen - 1,200) (Note Nappas Power Level is 4,000 and Frieza's Final form Max Power is only 530,000 Frieza says that his second form is over 1 million. That is simply psychological warfare and a bluff)

- Prede (talk) 00:01, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Prede

Where are your references and sources who state tenshinhan as an alien and what about your amazing fake powerlevels. Come on for once show us some proof about your unsourced claims. Your nonsense is amusing,please tell us more. The forum i linked nobody said it could be an error stop with your biased selective nonsense and lies. Some fanboys questioned if daizenshuu 7 was canon or not.Season 1 dbz uncut dvd also lists tenshinhan as an alien descendant. If your book claims something prove it,you already lied too much about this.Cut the crap, you were busy to read my scans but every single time someone deleted your nonsense there you go prede was ready to restore his biased unsourced nonsense. Show us the reference about this nonsense,lol "Tenshinhan is often compared with Yamucha in terms of both power and popularity."and this one too ^ "Biographies Tien"-WTF is this crap?????lol something official,ahahahahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Warning don't try to delete this again or i will report you for abuse here. This is a discussion and both of you are ignoring wikipedia rules with unsourced editions. About folken he already confirmed what i said period. Impersonate folken?? Are you illiterate? In the message above "incorrection" folken said what i told you --~~the-one~~195.23.133.162 (talk)the-one195.23.133.162 (talk)

This is a fact, Yamcha has a big organized fanbase and few fanmangas, unlike Tenshinhan. And they are much close in power in android/cell saga, and that is a fact that every true Dragon Ball otaku will tell you. SSJ 5 (talk) 15:08, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Yamcha left the trainings after cell saga how are they close? Fan made =trash non-canon.Saxnot--Saxnot (talk) 16:22, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

You haven't read manga, have you? He didn't leave training ... He gave up fighting (which is as I recall what he said in both english and japanese anime) SSJ 5 (talk) 15:59, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I read the manga and i know more about dragon ball than you. 1-Yamcha and tenshinhan are not close in power.READ THE MANGA,tenshinhan destroyed yamcha easily in the 22 WT in the sayan saga even krillin was stronger than yamcha.After the 23 wt yamcha was a baseball player(toriyama's idea)in the manga yamcha states he was happy to come back and satisfied to train AGAIN. 2-tenshinhan defeated a saibaman with a single shot and yamcha only koed him with a kamehameha. 3-tenshinhan trained more time in kaioh kingdom than yamcha 4-tenshinhan trained all the time and yamcha had an excuse to skip trainings he was a playboy. 5-he left the trainings after cell saga yamcha wasn't a martial artist like tenshinhan who lives to train-Saxnot (talk)Saxnot

Your knowledge of Dragon Ball is ughhh ... I don't really have a word for that, and you obviously don't have a life so I'm just replying on your post here and nothing more. Tenshinhan's saibaman stood up almost immediately and was killed by vegeta, and if you studied dragon ball you'd know that prolonged exposure to the same gravity won't give you gravity benefit. Kaio sama already taught they needed to know so thats not a factor, otherwise it would have been shown. you are quoting non-existent stuff in order to prove you are right so its pointless really (Such as quoting fillers). Over and off SSJ 5 (talk) 12:24, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Lol you are so funny aren't you?I don't have a life??lol i'm not the one who is here all the time working in the net like a fanatic,lol,watch yourself in the mirror kid fanboy,lol. Tenshinhan's saibaman stood up almost immediately??????lol try to buy glasses boy your fanatic mind is amusing.Yamcha had to fight period, in seconds tenshinhan almost killed him with a single shot.In the sayan saga(beginning) tenshinhan had 250 krillin 206 and yamcha 177.This is close for you???Please give me a break.In the front page of the original manga yamcha was trying to catch the monkey like a fool and tenshinhan was already training with piccolo.About the gravity question everything you said is stated in your fanatic mind that's all.vegeta trained all his life in gravity coz gravity was useless,lol.At least in one thing you are right its pointless to discuss with a crazy fanboy.Next time try to learn some math and understand what you are reading.Finally there is big difference between reality and your fan dreams. Everybody knows yamcha is a joke,so please read the manga and this is stated in the manga 158 days on Kaiô-sama's planet=3,000 years of training on Earth Tenshinhan waited for the Dragonball's to for the Dragonballs to recharge, twice. So, he spent 266 days on Kaiô's planet, training. If 158=3,000 years, 266=5,050 years which means more training =more power, anyway doesn't matter the difference was already too big by a long shot.I'm not quoting fillers, manga is very clear about this, you are the one who talks based in dumb assumptions,lol.Tenshinhan was always stronger by a long shot-Saxnot (talk)

Tenshinhan is stronger than both Kuririn and Yamucha. He proved that when he defeated him and even broke his leg at the 22nd World Martials Arts Tournament. More evidence -- Tenshinhan managed to blow a Saibamen away with a simple ki cannon, dodge his attack and then knock him down with his elbow (even though it got back up, that's 'cos Tenshinhan wasn't using his full power), where in the anime, Yamucha got thrown into the air by the Saibamen and had to use a Kamehameha just to take him down. He was careless enough to get himself blown up by the Saibamen. Another thing -- Yamucha got killed by a Saibamen, Tenshinhan died while using all his energy to defeat Nappa with a Kikoho. He didn't even have to get killed by Nappa, and that shows how dedicated he is to the planet Earth. King Kai's planet -- Ginyu Force invade it, Tenshinhan took on both Butta and Jheese and defeated them both before the others when Yamucha only took on Reacoom and he won by sheer luck and a one-chance blast. Later, Android Saga, Tenshinhan fought 17 and also prevented Cell from absorbing #18 when he repeatedly blasted at Cell with his Neo Tri-Beam. Yamucha had lost a bit of strength because of his baseball playing. There you go, I think it's pretty clear than Tenshinhan is stronger than whatever strength Yamucha had. And Yamucha stopped training in the Majin Boo Saga while Tenshinhan and Chaozu continued to train in the mountains. I rest my case (Yamucha and Tenshinhan's still cool). Lord Piccolo (talk) 18:08, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

The third eye is from becoming enlightened

Where did this come from? The source doesn't seem to be valid? Or am I wrong? SSJ 5 (talk) 15:06, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

You are wrong the source is valid the encyclopedia says by akira toriyama and enlightenment is a fan made theorie--Saxnot (talk) 16:28, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

The source is from my DragonBall Z Beckett Magazine. It is NOT a " a fan made theorie" it was printed in a MAGAZINE. But I think there may be a mistake, because some user insists the dayzenshuu 7 states he is an alien. I am waiting for a response from a person with the dayzenshuu 7, to check this. - Prede (talk) 19:25, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

You are waiting????????????????????????????????????? I already provided scans and everybody knows daizenshuu 7 states tenshinhan as an alien instead you never provided scans about your magazine so i don't believe in your word. Enlightenment is a fan made theorie. I also have dragon ball OFFICIAL magazine norma editorial 2 who also confirms tenshinhan as an alien. You can ask in all the forums ( you can't see a simple image) and everybody will tell you it is true and about the user you are waiting for,he already confirmed the same THING above in the topic incorrection.Unfortunately you cannot deal with the truth.-Saxnot (talk) 23:52, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

you mean this "...is mainly based on the original manga, in which Ten' is a human." - Folken de Fanel

or this "Ten' was always a human and Toriyama never said anything about Ten being an "alien" - Folken de Fanel or how about this "The Daizenshuu are full of inconsistancies and fallacies. They are good for refrence material but nothing in them can be accepted as accurate without evidence from other sources such as the manga itself" - .172.166.22.144 03:50

I am still going to wait for his response on this... - Prede (talk) 23:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC) It is useless to manipulate his words Yes,he confirms daizenshuu 7 states tenshinhan as an alien later he changed his mind and considering daizenshuu 7 as lower canon and without mention in the manga people should ignore(personal opinion) that 's all.Sesshomaru is a krillin fanboy from mfg look: http://db.schuby.org/daizex/search.php?search_author=Sesshomaru plus http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.php?t=7535&highlight=third+eyes -I am still going to wait for his response on this "where are your scans" and Folken never said The Daizenshuu are full of inconsistancies and fallacies it is amazing how you lie so much about this.It is pathetic and embarrassing. Obviously you have a personal interest in this article.Every time i found inconsistancies and fallacies in your fan story about enlightenment.Your game plan is to find someone who refuses official canon as a reference and keep this article a piece of crap and lies. -Saxnot (talk) 00:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)Saxnot

For the record, this guy ain't me. Lot of impersonations going on around here ... Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 07:15, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Your definition of impersonation is very wide.Even a quote is an impersonation for you. Anyway your speech is very similar with this guy-Saxnot (talk)

Prede and Sesshomaru are right. Daizenshuus' ARE full of inconsistencies with the manga. I don't think that it is a valid source of info. And I've never heard of DragonBall Z Beckett Magazine (I'm from Serbia, we don't have it here.), so I can't really comment on that. SSJ 5 (talk) 14:29, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

List 5 things out of any of the 7 books that contradict the manga. If you can't, then you just don't want to rely on it.Plus the encyclopedia was revised and supervised by A.Toriyama.The manga is full of inconsistancies and fallacies too.The Daizenshuu 7 is coherent with the manga. Except for the Raditz number which is only a typo, as Toriyama did many times in his manga. Wake up, you're not Toriyama and he approved the encyclopedia. In the introduction,akira said he could find in daizenshuu 7 the details he forgot to mention in the manga like tien's alien condition.Toriyama did innacuracies all the time in the manga. The man kills Freeza than brings him back in one chapter, has the Dragon capable of any wish than extremely limited, has characters constantly mention Vegeta killing them when it was Nappa or the Saibamen, forgets Lunch exists, Has Kaio the god of the universe yet he's only the god of the northern universe later.Need I go on? Innacuracy is no sign of Toriyama not being involved.-Saxnot (talk)

How don't you get it??? Manga is THE WORD!!! Its always been like that and Daizenshuu can be used to add some interesting new facts like Tien beeing an alien (which I somewhat doubt (but its possible), cause you can see a lot thing lately approved by Toriyama and they contradict) ... For me manga is the only truly reliable source of info and if you know dragon ball enough you can get almost every info out of it. And the Freeza back to life isn't an

inconsistency ... It IS explained. And I'll just stop this right now and ignore every other post by you, that is not related to improving this article ... SSJ 5 (talk) 08:23, 19 April 2008 (UTC) NO, the manga never explained everything and the manga has big contradictions just look what happened in the fight goku vs cell: goku destroyed cell's brain and later when cell destroys himself he explains his resurrection due to the fact a cell from his brain survived the explosion,lol,this is a major CONTRADICTION never explained.I'm still waiting list 5 things out of any of the 7 books that contradict the manga. Daizenshuu by akira toriyama and his staff provides additional information about dragon ball, A common fan tactic in arguments is to dismiss things one does not like, does not agree with, or one feels does not belong (in general) by saying "Well, the author had nothing to do with that!" In the past, it has been proved Toriyama's initial involvement in DragonBall GT via his early character and landscape designs in the daizenshuu and DBGT Perfect File books. Daizenshuu 6 ("MOVIES & TV SPECIALS"), in particular, showcases Toriyama's character designs for the likes of Coola (and his henchmen), movie 7's jinzôningen, Broli, Bojack, etc.What about the general filler material in the TV show?Toriyama had nothing to do with any of that, right...? Not quite.It is certainly not the case that Toriyama wrote and "drew" every single episode in the TV series, but the recent anime guide Son Gokû Densetsu finally gives us a little glimpse into the clearly-overworked man's involvement in the TV series. There were many character designs Toriyama came up with for filler material, including Paikuhan, Dai-Kaiô, and the beginnings of King Vegeta. We also learn that for many story points, Toriyama would typically come up with a vague idea and leave a memo for the TV series staff to, essentially, go wild with and develop a full story from said idea. Some of these items included the back-history of the Saiyans and the Tsufurus for DBZ episode 20, the Z-Senshi's training with the "Ancient" Saiyans via Kami's Palace, and Lunch's persistent chasing of Tenshinhan. Even Yamcha's job as a baseball player was Toriyama's idea!Also remember cases such as Bardock, who was essentially a joint-collaboration between Akira Toriyama and Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru. In fact, Toriyama liked the idea so much, he ended up integrating it into his own canon storyline in the manga.In the original release of the manga, when Vegeta gets ready to fight Recoome, Jheeze reads his battle power as being 20,000. In Daizenshuu 7's battle power chart, Vegeta's battle power for when Goku arrives on Planet Namek (i.e. when he's fighting Recoome) is 30,000. As far as I know, this was the first place to ever give Vegeta's battle power from that time as being 30,000. Now in the kanzenban re-release of the manga, which featured such things as slightly revised artwork and a new ending by Toriyama, the dialogue from before Vegeta fights Recoome is changed so that Vegeta's battle power is now...30,000. So in other words, the re-release of the manga was edited so that Vegeta's battle power matched what it was given as in Daizenshuu 7. -Saxnot (talk)

Making this article a GA

Ok, I've finally got some time on my hands ... Should we give it a shot? SSJ 5 (talk) 14:49, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm willing to help. What took you so long man? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 05:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I'll help however I can ^.^ - Prede (talk) 07:30, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, ppl ... We'll start in day or two. I'll be searching for some material. SSJ 5 (talk) 08:14, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I've got some real world material. Tomorrow I won't be home for much of the day so I'll continue a bit later. SSJ 5 (talk) 23:52, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Just commenting, try not using "Biographies Tien" (2001). Retrieved on 2008-03-14. “People often wondered if this three-eyed warrior was even human like Krillin or Yamcha. He is.”" or "http://www.thegrandline.com/dbzinfo/timeline.html" as references. They seem to fail Wikipedia:Reliable sources. A experienced user commented something like that here.--Tintor2 (talk) 17:10, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I was upsy on something similar over here. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I used "Biographies Tien" (2001). Retrieved on 2008-03-14. “People often wondered if this three-eyed warrior was even human like Krillin or Yamcha. He is.”" because it is about how fans veiw the character, so it probally does not to be a "great" reference, just something to prove we are not making this stuff. Although if there are better sources, they should be used instead. - Prede (talk) 20:34, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

We could sure use User:Folken de Fanel's help right about now. Wonder why he hasn't responded to this? ... Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:38, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

The 7th Daizenshû does state that Tenshinhan has alien ancestry.

On page 32, "racial groups" section, the french translation says "In the Dragon Ball universe, the 3 main species are the Earthlings, the Saiyans and the Nameks. But many other extraterrestrial races appear also in the story. People with special abilities like the Yardrats or the Metamols, the "Three-eyes", Tenshinhan's ancestors, the extraterrestrials living in the Penguin village like Nicochan or Okaka Umebochi."

On page 79, Tenshinhan's bio states this: "An extraterrestrial, descendant of the "Three-eyes" race. He has abilities that few Earthlings can even imagine." And it goes on about how he can divide himself, etc.

Although the 4th Daizenshû (named The World) only classifies him as a Earthling.Folken de Fanel (talk) 11:26, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I seem to can't get the right amount of info ... I don't wanna just copy some text form Yamucha article ... Guess that would look bad to the readers ... Someone has idea for rephrasing it? I got the source (Many same as Yamucha) ... + It seems that Tien did not have a prototype like Yamucha, Bulma or Goku. SSJ 5 (talk) 02:06, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm re-phrase what? I say put what ever you have into the aricle and we can re-phrase it, copy/edit it, and add to it then. Also more pictures once we are done would be great, I could probally help. But for now, lets try and just improve the artciel. There's not a lot of information here... - Prede (talk) 03:20, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

SSJ 5 are you going to add the info you have to this article? After you add it, we can then go about rephraseing it. Also anyone have any suggestions on what to add to the "Reception" section, it is looking kind of empty and bare. Whatever we add will need sources, and those are hard to come by for Tien. - Prede (talk) 02:16, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I can provide references from the manga if needed. Where is SSJ 5? He said he'd get a head start or something. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:29, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Last time he said something about this he said he didn't want to post anything, because it would need a lot of re-phraseing. I say he should post it anyway, then at least we could start working on it. If you'd like to start adding, I can help. Although I have no idea where to start. - Prede (talk) 02:32, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't know either. Wish DBZROCKS returned, he'd think of something. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:46, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Well "Creation and conception" section needs some work, although theres almost no info out there for that. The "Appearance" section seems fine, maybe a little copy edit, but seems good ( a re-phraseing here or there, but theres enough info here) . "Summary" should probally be re-named "Plot overview" or "Character overview" and more info is needed here. "Abilities" is probaly as good as it will ever get. And the "Video games" section can keep the list, but info should be in prose about the games and the character in them. And of course "Reception" section needs a lot of work. But hmm where to start and what to do exaclty... - Prede (talk) 02:55, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I can't see what would be the use of a "reception" section. We can talk about the reception of a movie, a series, etc, with sale figures, number of viewers, critics, etc. But what can you say about a minor fictional character ? It just doesn't work.
Sure, this kind of section could sometimes be appropriate, for example about massive fan reactions in front of the producers' building after the death of a character, but it's really not the case here.
The only source you have is an unreliable personal fansite with which you're trying to make global statements ("many fans..." / "others..."), and it doesn't work. You should just forget about this section because anyone would delete it on sight...Folken de Fanel (talk) 13:15, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

The Video Game section needs something written up, in prose, above the list IMO . Take a look at Vegeta for example. Also Folken de Fanel, Wikipedia:IAR stands for the reception section. I find the section notable, and for sources, we can ignore the "rules", as long as they appear reliable for fan reception. Nothing innapproiate midn you. I still think that section needs some more info however. - Prede (talk) 20:09, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

IAR doesn't mean that rules don't exist and that you can do whatever you want on WP. Its meaning is that new contributors are not obliged to focus on the rules, they can focus on the content they want to add, because someone will always edit after him to make things better. IAR doesn't mean in anyway that you can add unsuitable content in any circumstances. A reception section here is just inappropriate. I repeat what I said, a single fansite isn't reliable even for fan reception.Folken de Fanel (talk) 12:21, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Understanding_IAR SSJ 5 (talk) 12:30, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Ppl I didn't want to do this cause I don't have the time to argue, but maybe we should get the reception section back. I can get the info on merchandise and CCG's ... I don't know what kind of help would that be, but ... SSJ 5 (talk) 17:42, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Power Level Scans

So there can be no debating my magazine exist with the power levels exaclty as I copyed onto this site, I have the scans of the magazine here. The links are posted on the Yamucha talk page. I will post the links here as well so we can refure to them as needed.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a276/mikevamp/scan0001.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a276/mikevamp/scan.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a276/mikevamp/scan0003.jpg

- Prede (talk) 22:29, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Further discussion at Talk:Yamucha#Power Levels. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:33, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Assessment

• Start class criteria: "Has at least one serious element of gathered materials, including any one of the following:" — Yes
• C class criteria: Missing key elements entirely: Refer to WP:MOS-ANIME#Layout for a character article in this regard.

Confirmed as Start class. G.A.S 18:20, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Beckett Magazine

Beckett should not be used as an information source. It was a poorly made fanzine that either ripped information from other sources or invented it itself. Beckett was just a fan website in magazine format. Xyex (talk) 22:34, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Solving the Alien vs. Enlightenment issue

This is very simple. When you have two sources of information of arguable canonicity and accuracy, you do one simple thing. You list them 'both' and acknowledge the discrepency. "The manga never clearly states if Tenshinhan is a human or alien. This source here says that he's an alien. This other one says he's a human who has achieved enlightenment. That's all we know." Because it *is* all we know. We cannot make a decision one way or another--all we can do is acknowledge that two sources of information have provided conflicting information about the same thing. This kind of thing happens 'all the time' on the Transformers Wiki. 71.60.161.100 (talk) 07:57, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Requested move 14 June 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Number 57 15:13, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

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Tien Shinhan → Tenshinhan – A technical request, but could potentially be controversial. Wikipedia uses the spellings that the official English publisher, Viz Media, uses in their release of the original manga series; this would be Tenshinhan. "Tien Shinhan" is the English name used by Funimation, which dubbed the anime adaptation. Although Tenshinhan is already used throughout this article and many others, this is the series' only character page not titled by its manga name. --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 00:28, 21 June 2015 (UTC) Xfansd (talk) 15:18, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

• Support move We should stick with the original, the English name can retain a spot in the lead. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 16:57, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Image deletion nomination(s)

One or more images currently used in this article have been nominated for deletion as violations of the non-free content criteria (NFCC).

You can read more about what this means and why these files are being nominated for deletion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics#Image deletion nominations for NFCC 8 and 3a.

You can participate at the deletion discussion(s) at Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2020 April 28. If you are not familiar with NFCC-related deletion discussions, I recommend reading the post linked above first.

Sincerely, The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 22:10, 28 April 2020 (UTC)