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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Flyer22 Frozen (talk | contribs) at 17:02, 13 July 2019 (→Todd (now Emily) VanDerWerff having come out as transgender: Was a late reply because I was busy with things, and neglected this notification.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Help with a manual of style dispute

Hi. On the article Lantouri User:Sc wikinevis insists on adding details of every single film festival this film has been screened at, and all the awards it has ever been nominated for. This was the latest diff. I've removed all this, per the Film MOS and have communicated this to the editor. I've explained this multiple times to them, but they don't appear to be listening. The previous time, they simply blanked their talkpage. Any further help with this matter would be helpful. Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 08:05, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think WP:INDISCRIMINATE covers most of this. You certainly don't need to list every single festival it played and awards should only be included if they have their own article per WP:FILMCRITICLIST. I would point out to the editor that WP:Communication is required and if they refuse to discuss their edits or offer an explanation then warn them for disruptive editing, and if they do it again take it to ANI. I wouldn't worry too much provided you have haven't breached 3RR yourself. They usually take a dim view if one of the editors has attempted to discuss the issue and the other flat out refuses. Betty Logan (talk) 11:28, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Betty. This is the sort of verbose replies the user posts, rather than addressing any concerns. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 16:24, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Lugnuts I wish I could understand why you doing this and why you became so obsessive about this article. You are ignoring facts that happened already when you are talking to new people! Thanks to wikipedia and the way it is written the history of everything is there and people can find out about them. By the way it is you who doesn't know what his/her concern is.Sc wikinevis (talk) 16:40, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Betty Logan Hello! Please look at all we communicated and then decide if I didn't communicate : Regarding the movie "Lantouri". I communicated with this user and he was the person who was ignoring me and instead was reverting my edits. He is not clear to himself/herself. I wrote everything about what I did, please read it carefully and let me know of your decision. I mentioned you here so you can read and be aware of what happened. And by the way as I mentioned before, it doesn't matter if my Talk is blank or not here the problem is something else and what is important that I read the Mnual of Style this user talking about. He just doesn't give other to improve and keeps reverting. RegardsSc wikinevis (talk) 16:35, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Betty Logan Hello again! Could you please help us Betty Logan? This user "Lugnuts" keeps deleting and reverting everything. It is not clear to him/her what is correct or wrong. I've already read the Manual and the Release dates section and I did put only important dates and events at Release section. Also about awards an nominations I put that are important to the movies with reliable sources in their sections of Lantouri. Please look at history of reverting. This user just can't decide what should stay in article and what should be deleted or reverted! He/She changes his/her decision every time he/she reverts. This user even deletes the content of what is already written in Release dates and in that Manual of Style he is talking about over and over. I'm just so tired and confused of what this user doing. He is so obsessed with this article and doesn't allow others to improve it. Please help me understand what should I do? Regards, Sc wikinevis (talk) 17:27, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
For this film, and others, I'm simply adhering to the Manual of Syle (MOS) for films, which I've linked to many times. This is a long-standing consensus for what should and should not be included into a film article, which in turn are linked to other wiki-guides or policies, such as WP:INDISCRIMINATE, mentioned above. If you don't like that, then you are free to try and get a consensus to change the MOS, but it is not OK to edit-war and keep re-inserting content into articles that goes against the MOS. As you feel so strongly about this, then the burden is with you to convince other editors that the MOS should be changed, using a clear and coherent rationale. Yes, there are other articles that have these lists of film festival releases and award overkill, but that does not mean it's OK to replicate that across other articles. Please take a look at these film articles to see how they are written, which is to WP's highest standards. Also, please stop pinging me. Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 18:02, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sc wikinevis, I suggest you read WP:FILMCRITICLIST. If you still feel there are valid reasons for adding awards without articles in direct contravention of the manual of style then start a discussion on the article talk page please and provide your reasons there. Betty Logan (talk) 13:12, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Betty Logan: Thank you for your message. I'll read what you mentioned and get back to you later. @Lugnuts: As I said before, I strongly believe you are not clear even to you yourself about what exactly your concern is. You even change the manual of style you are mentioning over and over and you even don't apologize for making other people confuse. Sorry, but What I understand is that you got obsessed with the article you once created and you don't let other people to improve it. What you are doing during the revert is not logical and you didn't answer my simple question I asked about your revert at Ritchie333 Talk. You are not able to think out of what you are focusing on and mentioning over and over. You can't decide about what your concern is exactly about the content of the article and what is important to you. This conversation is not over and I'll get back to you later. For now, due to the shortage of time of mine in real world, I'm leaving the page as it is and get in touch with you and other professionals later in Talk page. Best regards, Sc wikinevis (talk) 18:38, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Betty Logan: Concur with User:Betty Logan and User:Lugnuts and disagree with User:Sc wikinevis. There is no reason to list every festival at which a film has played. --Coolcaesar (talk) 12:28, 28 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hello @Coolcaesar:! And thank you for your feedback! And may I ask you please, depending on what exactly you are disagreeing with me? Depend on what Lugnuts user wrote here? Did you check my edits and noticed this fact that I only wrote THE IMPORTANT festivals, awards and nominations in the article? But no matter what, this user “Lungnuts” reverted my edits over and over. If you have time, please take a look at "Lantouri" article and this user's reverting history. You'll notice that this user, unfortunately, is not clear to her/himself which event should stay in article and which one should be deleted. By every revert he was changing his decision about what he previously have already decided to be in article. And this exactly what made me confused. I asked him a specific question about why he is changing his decision by every revert, but I never received an answer from this user about this matter. The user, instead, was repeating over and over “per manual of style”. I read the manual of style when this user sent me, and I was editing the article depend on what I’ve learned from that manual. The problem here is not that manual. The problem here, again, is that he is not sure what should stay in article and what should be deleted. I was not doing war editing or anything. I was just trying to improve an article. And by the way, if you look at the history of this user and my page, which is recorded there in Wikipedia, this user was reverting me over and over without even Talk-ing to me first. And this is exactly war editing! And I could just report him. But I chose to Talk first. So, my recommendation to you is, before deciding and making a judgment, please check it first what have happened or is happening! You as experienced user should help rookies. If you don’t have time to read all that happened before sending out your judgment, well, do you really believe it helps to the process or about anything? Here also you can find out that I tried to talk to this user and understand her/his concern, but he didn't answer my question : Regarding the movie "Lantouri". And, only because you were mentioned here, please read what I answered the user Lugnuts below. It could probably help you to understand the situation better. Best regards, Sc wikinevis (talk) 20:27, 28 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]


Thank you. I just did a little bit of digging, and found that User:Sc wikinevis was blocked for edit-warring three months ago. Guess what for? Not accepting a MOS on an article. I see a pattern in their behaviour. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 13:37, 28 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Lugnuts: So what? Do you believe you discovered something unique by digging a rookie editor’s Talk page!? Of course, I'm not experienced as some of you are! I even didn't know at that time that reverting is not good always because it makes an edit-war. I even was not familiar with this terminology in Wikipedia back then. But that, you should probably know as an experienced user by now!! Yes? What YOU did as an experienced user?!?! Reverting me over and over without talking to other user first?! And then not answering their question and even making it more complicated to them to understand what they should do? Are you proud of what you did?! I could report you at that time when you were reverting me, but I chose to talk to you. Do you know why? Because, I remembered the time I was reported unfairly by the other user who chose to report me instead of talking to me first and waiting for the answer! And if you go dig harder, you can find out it was a stupid thing to get reverted for!! I remember that user also hesitated to talk to me first and instead of Talk-ing, he just reported me!! Probably, I did a mistake, because at that time, I’ve just started to do editing in Wikipedia and I didn’t have any idea what’s going on here. Even now I’m only a rookie and I learn by every edit. But what YOU did exactly as an experienced user!?! You better think about your behaviour pattern not mine. You change your words and it seems that you ignore the facts and you don't think logical. And if you got these much bored in real life, I recommend you go and dig harder in my Talk and in other rookie editors' page. You’ll sure find something funny to laugh at and MAYBE feel better. And please know this childish behavior of yours doesn’t help a rookie editor or Wikipedia environment at all. Be grown up and do represent what you quoted about in your page, but in a positive way! Negativity doesn't help and by the way, you are not a robot! Show empathy. And sanity is provided! Use it instead of humiliating other rookie users and digging their page for negative feedbacks. Well, hope that it was not your concern!! Yeas?! @Lugnuts:Sc wikinevis (talk) 20:09, 28 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Another wall of text. Yawn. TL/DR. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 07:43, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Input requested

Input is requested at Talk:Super 35 § List in History section. Thanks. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 00:20, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

List of American film actresses

I removed the ***** that had been added to identify actresses at least 80 years old, but the edit was reverted. Could someone from this project take a look and adjudicate. See the comments on the talk page. Thank you.--76.14.38.58 (talk) 15:28, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I support your edit. Those asterisks just look weird, and I don't understand why they are needed. Betty Logan (talk) 17:02, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Errors on page for 'Desert Shores (film)"

Watched this film on Amazon and see that the title was changed to "Salton Sea" upon it's release. The page's title should change with it. Also there is a poster image that can be added from their IMDB page https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BN2IzOWFhMzktNTczZS00YjQyLTg3NmMtNTU3N2IxOTFjYjJhXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjI3MDU2Mzk@._V1_SY1000_CR0,0,666,1000_AL_.jpg.

You can see the title change here: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5884434/mediaviewer/rm3720714497 and here https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TW9TK89?autoplay=1&ref=dvm_us_api_cs_hud_fb_GWRD-singleCW&pf_rd_p=e479604f-233b-4177-b107-fcfc45f79589&pf_rd_r=2344Y5N3JZNF3B6EA5S4

I'm not much of an editor so I couldn't do these changes myself but noticed they were wrong and want to support this film. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zaredit (talk • contribs) 13:58, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Todd (now Emily) VanDerWerff having come out as transgender

Because of this edit by an IP, which I followed up with this, this and this edit, I just found out that VanDerWerff has come out as transgender. As some or all of you may know, VanDerWerff is a critic we commonly use as a source in our articles regarding popular culture. I'm sure that there have been changes to a lot of Wikipedia articles regarding VanDerWerff, with respect to name usage and gender pronouns. And there is the MOS:GENDERID guideline to follow. At the article the IP popped up at, I chose to use the name "Emily Todd VanDerWerff" because, as seen here and here, it's currently what VanDerWerff uses, the source was changed to use that name, and because "Todd VanDerWerff" is still more recognizable than "Emily VanDerWerff." It seems that VanDerWerff is easing into the "Emily" name publicly because she is so well-known as Todd. But her blog commentary here indicates that she won't use "Todd" for long; she states, "I'm going to be publishing under the name Emily Todd VanDerWerff for a bit." She also states, "If you use my former name, well, I won’t like that very much." So maybe we shouldn't use "Emily Todd" at all, especially since she's likely to stop posting under "Emily Todd VanDerWerff"?

I'll alert WP:TV to this section for a centralized discussion per WP:TALKCENT. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 17:08, 8 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for the WPTV notification. So just to make it clear, at present Vox and A.V. Club have both changed the name to "Emily Todd VanDerWerff", which retroactively changes the byline in each of the articles she wrote. VanDerWerff is using just "Emily VanDerWerff" on Twitter and from the blog, it seems like she's planning to switch to that for Vox and A.V. Club articles in the near future. Currently it looks to me like "Todd" serves as a faux middle name on the bylines, so it wouldn't be inaccurate to just cite her as "VanDerWerff, Emily" (and refer to her as "Emily VanDerWerff" in prose), and this would prevent us from having to make the same name changes again if/when she switches to just "Emily VanDerWerff". — Bilorv (he/him) (talk) 19:11, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, that seems fine. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 17:01, 13 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Highlander articles

Came across Quickening (Highlander) through some series of clicks that started with Starship Troopers and noticed it seemed pretty heavily reliant on primary sources. Clicking around to some other Highlander-related articles, I'm seeing a lot of that: Watcher (Highlander), Ahriman (Highlander), Four Horsemen (Highlander), Nick Wolfe, Immortal (Highlander), The Kurgan, etc. Could maybe use some attention from folks more familiar with the degree of sourcing available for this one. (I was a fan of Highlander 2 when I was a kid and didn't know better, being one of the first rated R movies I had seen, but that was the end of my knowledge of the series). — Rhododendrites talk \\ 04:41, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Average row removal

Regarding The Lord of the Rings (film series), there is a dispute about whether or not the "Critical and public response" table should have an "Average" row. A discussion has been started here: Talk:The Lord of the Rings (film series)#Average row. Editors are invited to comment. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 14:43, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Draft:Harold Holland

I am having trouble getting this draft approved and I'd be happy to have assistance. FloridaArmy (talk) 23:11, 10 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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