Talk:Greece

Archived discussions Talk:Greece/Archive 2006-2011

Formatting and language conventions For articles about Greece, please use the 24-hour clock to show times, e.g. 09:00-12:00 and 18:00-00:00. Please show prices in this format: €100 and not EUR 100, 100 euro or 100€. Please use British spelling (colour, travelled, centre, realise, analogue, programme, defence).

Wine brands

I removed the following wine producers from the Drink section because it doesn't actually tell me anything.

Local producers include:

• Boutari (regions: Peloponnese, Crete, Goumenissa, Santorini, Naoussa).
• Skouras (region of Peloponnese). Good selection found in several tourist shops in Nafplion.
• Mercouri Estate (region of Peloponnese).
• Gentilini [1] (region of Kefalonia). Recommended by Dorling Kindesley's Eyewitness Travel Guides: Greek Islands, 2001;
• region of Santorini:
  • Canava Argyros.
  • Volcan Wines [2]. Also, a Volcan Wine Museum.
  • Santo Wines. [3]

• region of Crete:
  • Peza Union [4]
  • Sitia Agricultural Cooperatives Union [5]
  • Creta Olympias Winery [6]
  • Minos Wines. [7]
  • Lyrarakis Wines [8]
  • Douloufakis Wines [9]
  • Michalakis Winery [10]
• Tsantali [11]

Andrewssi2 (talk) 09:12, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Sensitive topics and Grexit?

I guess we have few Greek contributors or contributors with recent Greek travel experience.

The 'Respect' section makes no mention at all about recent events with the IMF/German/EU bailouts, and how Greek people perceive them.

It seems odd to leave out, however I wouldn't want to guess how Greek people feel about it. Perhaps anyone else with good Greek experience can add? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 02:32, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Money and currency are already addressed at Greece#Buy, although the {{cautionbox}} should be updated, depending on whether banks open tomorrow. K7L (talk) 03:09, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Currency is a practical issue and has indeed been addressed. I was specifically asking about Respect and Sensitive topics sections. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 05:25, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Greece hierarchy

The hierarchy for Greece seems to be wrong. Central Greece and Northern Greece redirect to Central and Northern Greece. We should split this page into 2 pages, one for Central and one for Northern Greece as user:Handrian suggested in the talk page. Furthermore "Central Greece" is the English translation for "Sterea Ellada". They are not two distinct regions. It's the same region encompassing Attica as well. Here my attempt:

• Greece
  • Central Greece (Sterea Ellada in Greek) - Aetolia-Acarnania, Attica, Boeotia, Euboea, Evrytania, Phocis, and Phthiotis
  • Peloponnese - Achaea, Arcadia (Greece), Argolis, Corinthia, Laconia (Greece), Messenia and w:Mani Peninsula
  • Northern Greece - Epirus (?), Macedonia (Greece), Thessaly (?), and Western Thrace
  • Greek Islands - Cyclades, Dodecanese, East Aegean Islands (?), Ionian Islands, North Aegean Islands, Saronic Gulf Islands, Sporades Islands.

--Gobbler (talk) 18:16, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

• I like the sound of it. I have recently been expanding the article about Ancient Greece and had the same feelings of a need for a good overhaul on this breadcrumb structure. The proposed division makes good sense, geographically and historically. I support it. Ibaman (talk) 18:29, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

This sounds much better and actually makes sense. If there's enough support, I suppose we'll want to see what can be salvaged from the old pages to put into the new designations. DethDestroyerOfWords (talk) 19:20, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Looks OK (though as I said I don't really know Greece, despite my user name :)). Northern Greece seems to be geographically fairly large compared to the other regions. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:36, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Northern Greece in the strict sens refers to Macedonia and Thrace. Sometimes incorporates Epirus but rarely Thessaly. See w:Northern Greece --Gobbler (talk) 20:21, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm not overly familiar with Greece, but a couple of thoughts I had are:

• I don't understand why the Ionian Islands are in the same region as the various Aegean Islands. Other than they're all Greek Islands, the Ionian Islands are on the other side of the country, with no direct travel connections to the Aegean Islands that I can see. Given their travel connections to Epirus and Epirus seems to be kind-of in and kind-of not part of Northern Greece, would it make sense to create a separate western region for Epirus and the Ionian Islands?
• If Thessaly isn't really part of Northern Greece or Central Greece, can it be a top level region of its own? It seems to have enough content at least. -Shaundd (talk) 23:23, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Here is another suggestion, similar to the one suggested by User:Gobbler, I think this one is better for a traveler:

• Greece
  • Attica
  • Central Greece - Boeotia, Euboea, Evrytania, Phocis, and Phthiotis
  • Peloponnese - Achaea, Arcadia (Greece), Argolis, Corinthia, Laconia (Greece), Messenia and w:Mani Peninsula
  • Northern Greece - Macedonia (Greece), Western Thrace and North Aegean Islands (?)
  • Thessaly
  • Western Greece - Epirus, Ionian Islands, Aetolia-Acarnania
  • Aegean Islands - Cyclades, Dodecanese, East Aegean Islands, Saronic Gulf Islands, Sporades Islands.
  • Crete

--Handrian (talk) 04:47, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

As a starting point for discussion, I suggest we first agree on the general principle to split Central and Northern Greece by two regions. I would prefer "Central Greece", for the article title given the English-speaking audience here. Any question? --Gobbler (talk) 09:09, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

• I support the split. And suggest the maintenance of Thessaly in Northern Greece, for simplicity. Ibaman (talk) 11:36, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

We have split Central and Northern Greece, I suggest we split Thessaly out of Northern Greece also. We will have to draw a new region map. --Handrian (talk) 02:36, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

I can update the map. Are there any more changes to the top-level region structure? -Shaundd (talk) 05:26, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes. there are. Attica is now part of Central Greece. Furthermore there is a discussion in progress on Greek wv, so the map can be updated. I will split Thessaly out of Northern Greece right away. Any objection? --Gobbler (talk) 11:32, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

No objections from me. Are the boundaries of Thessaly the same as the administrative region shown on this map? -Shaundd (talk) 06:03, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes, the geographical boundaries match the region administrative boundaries --Gobbler (talk) 12:32, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

We can have the following regions

• Greece
  • Central Greece - Attica, Boeotia, Euboea, Evrytania, Phocis, and Phthiotis
  • Peloponnese - Achaea, Arcadia (Greece), Argolis, Corinthia, Laconia (Greece), Messenia and w:Mani Peninsula
  • Northern Greece - Macedonia (Greece), Western Thrace and North Aegean Islands (?)
  • Thessaly
  • Epirus
  • Aegean Islands - Cyclades, Dodecanese, East Aegean Islands, Saronic Gulf Islands, Sporades Islands.
  • Ionian Islands
  • Crete

Or we can keep Aegean Islands and Ionian Islands together as Greek Islands. --Handrian (talk) 06:38, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Although the Ionian Islands and the Aegean Islands are geographically removed from each other, I think it kind of makes sense to keep all of the islands listed together, since the Greek Islands article strives to be a starting point for those that want to take a vacation in one of the islands but don't know exactly which. Vidimian (talk) 09:59, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

• I support this point of view. Let's have a Greek Islands article, covering all of them on both sides of the mainland, for simplicity and tightness and togetherness. It should even MENTION (not include) Imbros and all of the other islands which belong to Turkey nowadays, under Turkish names, and maybe even Cyprus, Sicily and Majorca for historic completeness. Ibaman (talk) 12:13, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Are we all OK with the following list?

• Greece
  • Central Greece - Attica, Boeotia, Euboea, Evrytania, Phocis, and Phthiotis
  • Peloponnese - Achaea, Arcadia (Greece), Argolis, Corinthia, Laconia (Greece), Messenia and w:Mani Peninsula
  • Northern Greece - Macedonia (Greece), Western Thrace
  • Thessaly
  • Epirus
  • Greek Islands - Cyclades, Dodecanese, Ionian Islands, East Aegean Islands, Saronic Gulf Islands, Sporades Islands, North Aegean Islands.
  • Crete

--Handrian (talk) 14:05, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

I updated the region map for Greece to reflect the current region structure on the Greece page. The discussion seems to have gone quiet since then so I haven't included the other changes discussed above. Let me know if I missed anything. Cheers -Shaundd (talk) 05:00, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Region tree

Greece (7 C, 6 P)

Central Greece (8 C, 3 P)

Crete (4 C, 4 P)

Greek Islands (7 C, 8 P)

Northern Greece (3 C, 3 P)

Peloponnese (7 C, 8 P)

South Aegean Islands (1 C, 1 P)

Thessaly (4 C, 6 P)

Lot going on this may be useful. --Traveler100 (talk) 12:55, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Consolidation of sites

I noticed, when travelling to Greece some week ago that there is not much relevant information under the country Greece. Even worse, there are so many none-sense pages under Greece filled with barely much (often just a list of cities), that it was even harder to find any relevant information. Therefore, I suggest to consolidate much of the content of Greece into less articles, and not use more than one region level. Of course, if in the future any relevant information would be added, we can increase the granularity again, but for now I would stick with less but meaningful articles.

Hence, if no one objects I will reduce the number of pages for Greece and especially region sub pages, and put the content together into more condensed form.

Cheers, Ceever (talk) 14:37, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Change of page banner

The page banner shows a bridge in Northern Greece in the Rhodope Mountains where hardly any tourist ever goes. In my opinion it is not representative for Greece. Therefore I changed it to the Acropolis of Athens but it was reverted by ThunderingTyphoons. He proposed to discuss if a change to a more typical Greek page banner is better. DocWoKav

Please post thumbnails of both banners here. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:39, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Athens-Pagebanner

instead of

Kompsatos river bridge, Thrace

Thanks. The Rhodope Mountains banner is a better-quality photo. I'm unconvinced Athens should represent the entire country of Greece, but if it does, we definitely should use a very high-quality photo. Therefore, I support User:ThunderingTyphoons!' reversion. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:03, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Lockdown

To my surprise the article does not seem (on a quick scan) to mention COVID-19 precautions.

Greece moves up reopening date to June 15 but only from countries with low infection rates. Pashley (talk) 04:38, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

I think most countries in the world have applied some sort of restrictions on entry, movement and activities, but we haven't had time to add warnings to all articles. --Ypsilon (talk) 05:13, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

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Hand gestures

Is there any consensus on whether thumbs up/ the OK sign are considered rude in Greece? I seem to find conflicting opinions online (am in Greece right now and accidentally gave the things up a few times which at best didn't seem to be understood!) Should we advise against these gestures completely to be on the safe side? Also maybe we could mention that pointing can be considered rude. Danielt998 (talk) 11:59, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Despite my user name, I haven't had the pleasure to visit Greece yet, but Handrian can maybe answer your question. --Ypsilon (talk) 13:03, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

sorry to stick my South American spoon here uninvited, but IMHO pointing with the index finger (except, maybe, to the stars) IS considered rude and impolite, globally, totally, perhaps an apt Captain Obvious entry. Can I be wrong here? Ibaman (talk) 13:12, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

yeah probably true, at least in the Western World (it is a little rude in the UK too), and I don't think it's hugely rude in Greece, just a little. The other two I mentioned are potentially much more of a concern though Danielt998 (talk) 14:10, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

BTW we have an article about gestures. According to that, thumbs up is seen as rude in Muslim countries but not elsewhere. The finger and thumb "OK" is apparently something to avoid in "certain parts of southern Europe excluding the Iberian peninsula" so there's a good chance it applies to Greece too. There's apparently one more thing not to do in Greece, which is showing your palm.

Finally, when discussing inappropriate gestures, I always come to think of this scene from Mr.Bean The Movie :D. --Ypsilon (talk) 14:43, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

• for the record, the finger and thumb "OK" in Brazil means "your sphincter" and is to be avoided, too. Ibaman (talk) 14:47, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

I was going off this. No idea how reliable it is, but it also mentions stuff like nodding and shaking head/yes/no gestures being different. These should definitely be discussed in this article directly if true (if so I have a feeling that that video is painfully close to how I looked earlier!) Danielt998 (talk) 14:53, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

by all means plunge forward and update it with your experience. I have just reread gestures, and am glad about the Dick Nixon anecdote, mentioned in the appropriate section, about what I just said about finger and thumb OK in Brazil. Ibaman (talk) 14:56, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

The issue is I've read very conflicting advice, e.g. stuff like this suggests the opposite. I don't know if it depends on context, or even the region of Greece? I will see if I can do a little more research first... Danielt998 (talk) 15:02, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Items from Other destinations

The 'Other destinations' section, like 'Cities', is limited to nine items (the note at the top is pretty clear on this point). Below are the items that user:DocWoKav added. I was going to move them to 'See', but the listy nature of them would spoil the flowing prose of that section. If their author or someone else would like to have a stab at integrating them into their proper places in the article, feel free. Bear in mind they may not all belong in the country article, but rather in one lower in the hierarchy.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:49, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

I have a question about that. Do we prefer flowing text over listings in the English WW version? In the German version, the listings in connection with Wikidata are the preferred style (like below ). --DocWoKav (talk) 12:00, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Yes, Wikivoyage:Region article template#See says: "Don't give full details about each attraction (use prose, not a listing template)" Ground Zero (talk) 12:35, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm wondering if this list should be broken out as a stand-alone article, linked from the Greece article, with additional descriptions, maps, and photos. Ground Zero (talk) 12:40, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

You mean like UNESCO World Heritage Sites, but just for Greece and with more detail? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:08, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

UNESCO World Heritage sites

Ancient sites

• 1 Delphi. the most important ancient oracle.  
• 2 Epidaurus. the most famous ancient theater.  
• 3 Mycenae. by Homer well-known ancient site well worth seeing.  
• 4 Olympia. Place of origin of the Olympic Games.  
• 5 Temple of Apollo Epicurius in Bassae. the second best preserved Greek temple of the motherland (after the Hephaisteion in Athens).  
• 6 Tiryns . From the 3rd millennium BC In BC Tiryns was one of the most important centers of Bronze Age Europe.  
• 7 Vergina. The excavation site at Vergina is probably identical to the ancient city of Aigai, which dates back to 410 BC. Was the capital of the Kingdom of Macedonia.  
• 8 Philippi. ancient site on the Via Egnatia known from the Letters of the Philippians in the Bible. Place of activity of the aposte Paul.  
• 9 Knossos. ancient Minoan city on Crete .  

• 10 Delos. Antiquity was a flourishing site and, thanks to the local shrine of Apollo, it was a holy place for the Greeks.  
• 11 . is the ancient sanctuary of the Greek goddess Hera ("Heraion") on the island of Samos.  

Byzantine sites

• 12 Mystras. famous Byzantine ruined city.  
• 13 Meteora. world-famous monasteries in a breathtaking landscape.  
• 14 Mount Athos. Monastic republic with many monasteries and world cultural heritage.  
• 15 . Belongs to the most important Byzantine sacred buildings of the 11th century in Greece near Athens and is particularly known for its mosaics.  
• 16 . important Byzantine monastery in central Greece.  
• 17 . important Byzantine monastery on Chios  
• 18 . Monastery dedicated to Saint John on Patmos was founded on the ruins of an ancient Temple of Artemis. The author of the biblical Revelation of John wrote down his Apocalypse here in exile. The St. John's Grotto is one of the most important sanctuaries of Orthodoxy.  
• 19 . very worth seeing medieval old town on the island Corfu.  

• 20 . impressive fortress.  

Centers of tourism

Panoramic view of Oia, Santorini Island

• 1 Crete (Κρήτη) No. 1 tourist destination of Greece
• 2 Corfu (Κέρκυρα, Kérkyra) — large island with many attractions
• 3 Santorini (Σαντορίνη or Θήρα, Thira) — a volcanic island known for its beautiful views, towns and sunsets
• 4 Rhodes (Ρόδος, Ródos) — island with ancient monuments, as well as beaches
• 5 Mykonos (Μύκονος) — world famous, sophisticated holidays
• 6 Chalkidiki - very scenic peninsulas and one of the centers of Greek beach tourism on the mainland.

Toilet seats

Planning my first visit. I think the article should mention, probably in a section called Cope like the article about Japan, that toilets in Greek public spaces often don't have seats,[12] so visitors can get ready. --Ftrebien (talk) 19:35, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Please plunge forward and edit as you see fit. Vidimian (talk) 08:59, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

I think Toilets gives some understanding on the issues. You might want to read and link it. I don't know about Greece, but the Quora thread seemed to mostly talk about things covered there. –LPfi (talk) 19:26, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Squat toilets are not unusual in Europe. Many places in Italy and France have them, too, for example. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:03, 16 April 2022 (UTC)