Wikidata

Property talk:P3373

Latest comment: 3 months ago by Infovarius in topic Transitivity

Documentation

sibling
the subject and the object have at least one common parent (brother, sister, etc. including half-siblings); use "relative" (P1038) for siblings-in-law (brother-in-law, sister-in-law, etc.) and step-siblings (step-brothers, step-sisters, etc.)
Representssibling (Q31184)
Data typeItem
Domainhuman (Q5), fictional character (Q95074), character that may or may not be fictional (Q21070598), mythical character (Q4271324), deity (Q178885), fictional human formerly considered to be historical (Q64520857), human whose existence is disputed (Q21070568), prosopographical phantom (Q64643615), hypothetical person (Q75855169), captive mammal (Q57812611), human fetus (Q26513), individual organism (Q110224119), group of fictional characters (Q14514600), individual (Q795052), sibling group (Q16979650) or imaginary character (Q115537581)
Usage notesuse "relative" (P1038) for siblings-in-law (brother-in-law, sister-in-law, etc.) and step-siblings (step-brothers, step-sisters, etc.)
ExampleLisa Simpson (Q5846) → Bart Simpson (Q5480)
Jan Martel (Q14755480) → Joël Martel (Q14755483)
Joël Martel (Q14755483) → Jan Martel (Q14755480)
Elizabeth I of England (Q7207) → Mary I of England (Q82674)
Sourcereplacement of Property:P7 (brother) and Property:P9 (sister) (note: this information should be moved to a property statement; use property source website for the property (P1896))
Robot and gadget jobsDeltaBot does the following jobs:
Tracking: usageCategory:Pages using Wikidata property P3373 (Q27927382)
Lists
  • Wikidata:WikiProject Parenthood/reports/combine 1
  • Items with the most statements of this property
  • Count of items by number of statements (chart)
  • Count of items by number of sitelinks (chart)
  • Items with the most identifier properties
  • By value of property
  • Items with no other statements
  • Most recently created items
  • Items with novalue claims
  • Items with unknown value claims
  • Usage history (total)
  • Map of people by place values:
  • January 1st dates
  • Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P3373
  • Database reports/Constraint violations/P3373
  • Map
  • Random list
    • Proposal discussionProposal discussion
    Current uses
    Total489,294
    Main statement489,179>99.9% of uses
    Qualifier98<0.1% of uses
    Reference17<0.1% of uses
    Search for values
    [create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]
    Value type “person (Q215627), fictional character (Q95074), character that may or may not be fictional (Q21070598), mythical character (Q4271324), deity (Q178885), orca (Q26843), captive mammal (Q57812611), western lowland gorilla (Q876500), brown bear (Q36341), dog (Q144), horse (Q726), Ursus arctos arctos (Q839769), crab-eating macaque (Q301676), individual animal (Q26401003), human fetus (Q26513), fictional group of characters (Q24577840), stillborn child (Q2345820), imaginary character (Q115537581), sibling group (Q16979650), individual (Q795052), miscarried child (Q117463454)”: This property should use items as value that contain property “instance of (P31), subclass of (P279)”. On these, the value for instance of (P31), subclass of (P279) should be an item that uses subclass of (P279) with value person (Q215627), fictional character (Q95074), character that may or may not be fictional (Q21070598), mythical character (Q4271324), deity (Q178885), orca (Q26843), captive mammal (Q57812611), western lowland gorilla (Q876500), brown bear (Q36341), dog (Q144), horse (Q726), Ursus arctos arctos (Q839769), crab-eating macaque (Q301676), individual animal (Q26401003), human fetus (Q26513), fictional group of characters (Q24577840), stillborn child (Q2345820), imaginary character (Q115537581), sibling group (Q16979650), individual (Q795052), miscarried child (Q117463454) (or a subclass thereof). (Help)
    Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
    List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P3373#Value type Q215627, Q95074, Q21070598, Q4271324, Q178885, Q26843, Q57812611, Q876500, Q36341, Q144, Q726, Q839769, Q301676, Q26401003, Q26513, Q24577840, Q2345820, Q115537581, Q16979650, Q795052, Q117463454, SPARQL
    Type “human (Q5), fictional character (Q95074), character that may or may not be fictional (Q21070598), mythical character (Q4271324), deity (Q178885), fictional human formerly considered to be historical (Q64520857), human whose existence is disputed (Q21070568), prosopographical phantom (Q64643615), hypothetical person (Q75855169), captive mammal (Q57812611), human fetus (Q26513), individual organism (Q110224119), group of fictional characters (Q14514600), individual (Q795052), sibling group (Q16979650), imaginary character (Q115537581)”: item must contain property “instance of (P31), subclass of (P279)” with classes “human (Q5), fictional character (Q95074), character that may or may not be fictional (Q21070598), mythical character (Q4271324), deity (Q178885), fictional human formerly considered to be historical (Q64520857), human whose existence is disputed (Q21070568), prosopographical phantom (Q64643615), hypothetical person (Q75855169), captive mammal (Q57812611), human fetus (Q26513), individual organism (Q110224119), group of fictional characters (Q14514600), individual (Q795052), sibling group (Q16979650), imaginary character (Q115537581)” or their subclasses (defined using subclass of (P279)). (Help)
    Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
    List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P3373#Type Q5, Q95074, Q21070598, Q4271324, Q178885, Q64520857, Q21070568, Q64643615, Q75855169, Q57812611, Q26513, Q110224119, Q14514600, Q795052, Q16979650, Q115537581, SPARQL
    Item “sex or gender (P21)”: Items with this property should also have “sex or gender (P21)”. (Help)
    Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
    List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P3373#Item P21, search, SPARQL
    Scope is as main value (Q54828448): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)
    Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
    List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P3373#Scope, SPARQL
    Symmetric property: if [item A] has this property linked to [item B], then [item B] should also have this property linked to [item A]. (Help)
    Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
    List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P3373#Symmetric, SPARQL
    Allowed entity types are Wikibase item (Q29934200): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)
    Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
    List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P3373#Entity types
    Prefer over P1038
    Items with at least one statement also in P1038. FIXME: remove redundant P1038 or fix P3373 (Help)
    Violations query: SELECT ?item ?value ?qualifierP1039value WHERE { ?item p:P1038 ?claim . ?claim ps:P1038 ?value . ?item wdt:P3373 ?value . OPTIONAL { ?claim pq:P1039 ?qualifierP1039value } } LIMIT 200
    List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P3373#Prefer over P1038
    Common parent
    Items with parents should share at least one parent. FIXME: check items for parents, correct/create item for common parent if needed (Help)
    Violations query: SELECT DISTINCT ?item ?s WHERE { ?item wdt:P3373 ?s . MINUS { ?item wdt:P22/^wdt:P22 ?s } MINUS { ?item wdt:P25/^wdt:P25 ?s } OPTIONAL { ?item wdt:P22 \u007C wdt:P25 ?p1 } OPTIONAL { ?s wdt:P22 \u007C wdt:P25 ?p2 } FILTER ( BOUND(?p2) && BOUND(?p1) ) } LIMIT 10000
    List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P3373#Common parent
    People with same parents should be siblings
    Two people who share the same parents, should be siblings by definition. For half-siblings, we could do a similar report. (Help)
    Violations query: SELECT DISTINCT ?item ?item2 WHERE { ?item wdt:P31 wd:Q5. ?item2 wdt:P31 wd:Q5. ?item wdt:P25/^wdt:P25 ?item2. ?item wdt:P22/^wdt:P22 ?item2. FILTER(?item != ?item2) MINUS { ?item wdt:P3373 ?item2. } MINUS { ?item2 wdt:P3373 ?item. } MINUS { ?item wdt:P460 ?item2. } } LIMIT 10000
    List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P3373#People with same parents should be siblings
    Duplicate statements
    Items that seem to have multiple statements about the same sibling. User:KrBot might remove them. (Help)
    Violations query: SELECT ?item ?ps1 WHERE { ?item p:P3373 ?statement1 . ?statement1 ps:P3373 ?ps1 . ?item p:P3373 ?statement2 . ?statement2 ps:P3373 ?ps1 . FILTER (?statement1 != ?statement2 ) } LIMIT 1000
    List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P3373#Duplicate statements
    Birthdates too far away
    Items that are siblings but with birthdate more than 100 years away. (Help)
    Violations query: SELECT * WHERE { ?item wdt:P3373 ?item2 ; wdt:P569 ?date1. ?item2 wdt:P3373 ?item ; wdt:P569 ?date2. filter (abs(?date1 - ?date2) > 36500 ) }
    List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P3373#Birthdates too far away
    Sibling is the person self
    A person can never be a sibling of himself/herself (Help)
    Violations query: SELECT * WHERE { ?item wdt:P3373 ?item . }
    List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P3373#Sibling is the person self
    This property is being used by:

    Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.)

     
    Person properties
    Name
    Birth
    Death
    General
    Education
    Profession
    Views
    Body
    Family
     
    Wikidata properties related to tree (Q223655)
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    Summary

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    Number of siblings

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    A.
     
    statements
    per
    item     		B.
    =A+1
    siblings
    in
    group     		C.
     
    persons
     
          		D.
    =C/B
    sibling
    groups
    theor.     		F.
    =A*C
    total
    statements
     
    1 2 138727 69363.5 138727
    2 3 40268 13422.67 80536
    3 4 17146 4286.5 51438
    4 5 8607 1721.4 34428
    5 6 5009 834.83 25045
    6 7 3107 443.86 18642
    7 8 2065 258.13 14455
    8 9 1507 167.44 12056
    9 10 1113 111.3 10017
    10 11 835 75.91 8350
    11 12 568 47.33 6248
    12 13 432 33.23 5184
    13 14 311 22.21 4043
    14 15 236 15.73 3304
    15 16 211 13.19 3165
    16 17 199 11.71 3184
    17 18 152 8.44 2584
    18 19 101 5.32 1818
    19 20 121 6.05 2299
    20 21 111 5.29 2220
    21 22 112 5.09 2352
    22 23 52 2.26 1144
    23 24 70 2.92 1610
    24 25 5 0.2 120
    25 26 26 1 650
    26 27 16 0.59 416
    27 28 60 2.14 1620
    28 29 5 0.17 140
    29 30 2 0.07 58
    30 31 121 3.9 3630
    31 32 3 0.09 93
    32 33 1 0.03 32
    34 35 71 2.03 2414
    35 36 36 1 1260
    36 37 74 2 2664
    37 38 42 1.11 1554
    38 39 1 0.03 38
    39 40 40 1 1560
    40 41 83 2.02 3320
    41 42 1 0.02 41
    42 43 27 0.63 1134
    43 44 45 1.02 1935
    44 45 7 0.16 308
    53 54 54 1 2862
    68 69 68 0.99 4624
    69 70 1 0.01 69
    112 113 113 1 12656


    Discussion

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    Label/alias of P7/P9

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    Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

    I added the labels and aliases from these as alias here.
    --- Jura 08:43, 3 December 2016 (UTC)Reply

    Common parent

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    Latest comment: 7 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

    «Items with parents should share at least one parent. FIXME: check items for parents, correct/create item for common parent if needed.»

    Siblings with only one same parent doesn't always be a notable parent, and he or she can also be parent for only one and not all of those children. Best regards Migrant (talk) 12:47, 10 December 2016 (UTC)Reply

    An item for a parent can be created and added merely because they are known, not because they are notable by themselves ("structural need"). Most Wikipedia articles mention the names of parents.
    The query is currently limited to items where both items have some parent included. So it should be possible to figure out the common parent. At least that's what I thought: what I checked had some other mixup (they weren't siblings in the first place).
    --- Jura 13:33, 10 December 2016 (UTC)Reply
    Now that the data is in a single property, it seems much easier to determine how much it is a mess .. or .. high quality.
    --- Jura 11:17, 13 December 2016 (UTC)Reply

    Half-siblings ?

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    Latest comment: 2 years ago16 comments4 people in discussion

    Where do we put relatives that are only sharing one of their parents ? Best regards Migrant (talk) 16:24, 13 December 2016 (UTC)Reply

    I would do it like this:
    Robin van der Vliet (talk) (contribs) 13:34, 14 December 2016 (UTC)Reply
    Thanks for the answer. Best regards Migrant (talk) 19:45, 14 December 2016 (UTC)Reply
    The Chinese groups with 20+ siblings mostly use P3373.
    --- Jura 22:47, 14 December 2016 (UTC)Reply
    Should we keep it like that? I think relative (P1038) would be a better location. Robin van der Vliet (talk) (contribs) 15:18, 15 December 2016 (UTC)Reply
    What would be the advantages?
    --- Jura 11:08, 16 December 2016 (UTC)Reply
    Is a half-sibling the same as a sibling? Wiktionary defines the word "sibling" as "a person who shares same parents". Half-siblings don't share the same parents, just one, so adding them under this property would be incorrect. Should we extend the scope of the property or should we include them under another property (kinship to subject (P1039))? An advantage of adding them under another property would be that this property would be fully symmetric. Robin van der Vliet (talk) (contribs) 14:50, 17 December 2016 (UTC)Reply
    w:sibling matches the current use (linked from the proposal and the property). It shouldn't have any impact on the symmetric constraint. So I don't see these as advantages. Are there any other?
    --- Jura 03:32, 18 December 2016 (UTC)Reply
    It looks like w:sibling and wikt:sibling describe it differently. I am not sure which definition is considered correct.
    And I think it would have an impact on the symmetricity of the siblings, look at the following example:
    F1 and M1 have the child C1.
    F1 and M2 have the child C2.
    F2 and M2 have the child C3.
    C1 and C2 are half-siblings and C2 and C3 are half-siblings, but C1 and C3 are not half-siblings, they don't share any parent and are totally unrelated.
    Robin van der Vliet (talk) (contribs) 18:24, 18 December 2016 (UTC)Reply
    You are correct here, Robin van der Vliet, but C1 and C3 could share step-parents ? This is mostly theory, but then again it could be valid in some very few Wikidata-families. BTW. I do not supporting half-siblings to be added to this property, P3373. Best regards Migrant (talk) 02:46, 19 December 2016 (UTC)Reply
    • It's correct as explained, but it doesn't impact {{Constraint:Symmetric}}. The constraint only checks if C2 has C1 if C1 has C2. Another problem with changing this is that it isn't in line with the incremental growth nature of Wikidata: we may now that two persons are siblings, because they have the same father. Requiring both parents to be known beforehand wouldn't allows us to grow Wikidata as we do now.
      If you look at the larger sibling groups, it's fairly clear that they are siblings as they have the same father, but the name of mother might be somewhat random.
      --- Jura 23:36, 19 December 2016 (UTC)Reply
    @Jura1: If we also allow half-siblings, then we should mention this in the description of this property. Currently the description doesn't really include half-siblings and this was also not mentioned in the original proposal. We should at least save the data consistently, now some are added with relative (P1038) and some with sibling (P3373). And what about siblings-in-law and step-siblings? Should we also save them here? Robin van der Vliet (talk) (contribs) 02:59, 7 January 2017 (UTC)Reply
    I don't see the issue. What language are you looking at? Maybe it's just not in sync with English.
    --- Jura 08:51, 12 January 2017 (UTC)Reply
    I mean that the current English description doesn't mention that it also supports half-siblings: subject has the object(s) as their sibling(s): brother, sister, etc. For siblings-in-law, such as brother-in-law, use "relative" (P1038). For step-sisters/step-brothers, use "relative" (P1038).. Robin van der Vliet (talk) (contribs) 17:56, 14 January 2017 (UTC)Reply
    I guess it could mention full-siblings and half-siblings, but it's already somewhat long. Maybe translations do need the detail. Feel free to include it there.
    --- Jura 07:01, 17 January 2017 (UTC)Reply

    I'm editing the descriptions in english and a few other languages to include half-siblings. Until now it was contradictory with the descriptions in some other languages including french, german, and italian, and with the example of Elizabeth I and Mary I of England. --GrandEscogriffe (talk) 14:22, 19 October 2022 (UTC)Reply

    edit
    Latest comment: 5 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

    If a couple has 8 famous children, all with a Wikipedia article, should I set 8*7=56 properties to interlink them all? Syced (talk) 10:33, 6 December 2018 (UTC)Reply

    Yes. Robin van der Vliet (talk) (contribs) 13:24, 21 April 2019 (UTC)Reply

    class=animal

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    Latest comment: 4 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

    class (P2308) = animal (Q729): discussion here. Palotabarát (talk) 07:50, 6 November 2020 (UTC)Reply

    allowed qualifiers constraint: exception to constraint: Lisa Simpson?

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    Latest comment: 11 months ago1 comment1 person in discussion

    I decided to remove the item Lisa Simpson (Q5846) from the listing because I don't see why this specific fictional character would be named here. StarTrekker (talk) 12:35, 10 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

    Transitivity

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    Latest comment: 3 months ago2 comments2 people in discussion

    I removed the statement that this is a transitive property for two reasons. First, it would imply that anyone with a sibling is their own sibling by way of symmetry: R(A B) -(symmetry)-> R(B A) -(transitivity)-> R(A A). Second, the description says that this relation holds for half-siblings. If A shares a mother but not a father with B, and B shares a father but not a mother with C, we have R(A B) and R(B C) but not R(A C). Mortee (talk) 12:51, 22 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

    First argument is not vaid - reflexivity (Q54933018) is not a consequence of transitivity. Second argument is valid, so yes, this property is not transitive. --Infovarius (talk) 15:54, 23 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
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