Talk:Poland

Lede has to change

It's currently both too long (too many paragraphs) and too poor. This was a good proposition deleted without thorough discussion:

Poland (Template:Lang-pl [ˈpɔlska] ), officially the Republic of Poland, is a country in Central Europe. It extends from the Baltic Sea in the north to the Sudetes and Carpathian Mountains in the south, while its longest river is the Vistula. Poland has a temperate transitional climate and is the fifth-most populous member state of the European Union, with its sixteen voivodeships having a total population of over 38 million and covering a combined area of 312,696 km² (120,733 sq mi). It is bordered by Lithuania and Russia to the northeast, Belarus and Ukraine to the east, Slovakia and the Czech Republic to the south, and Germany to the west. The nation's capital and largest metropolis is Warsaw. Other major cities include Kraków, Wrocław, Łódź, Poznań, and Gdańsk.

Prehistoric human activity on Polish soil dates to the Lower Paleolithic, with continuous settlement since the end of the Last Glacial Period. Culturally diverse throughout late antiquity, in the early medieval period the region became inhabited by the tribal Polans, who gave Poland its name. The process of establishing proper statehood, which began in 966, coincided with the conversion of a pagan ruler of the Polans to Christianity, under the auspices of the Roman Catholic Church. The Kingdom of Poland emerged in 1025, and in 1569 cemented its long-standing association with Lithuania, thus forming the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth. At the time, the Commonwealth was one of the great powers of Europe, with a uniquely liberal political system which on 3 May 1791 adopted Europe's first modern constitution.

With the passing of the prosperous Polish Golden Age, the country was partitioned by neighbouring states at the end of the 18th century. Poland regained its independence in 1918 as the Second Polish Republic and successfully defended it in the Polish–Soviet War from 1919 to 1921. In September 1939, the invasion of Poland by Germany and the Soviet Union marked the beginning of World War II, which resulted in the Holocaust and millions of Polish casualties. As a member of the Eastern Bloc in the global Cold War, the Polish People's Republic was a founding signatory of the Warsaw Pact. Through the emergence and contributions of the Solidarity movement, the communist government was dissolved and Poland re-established itself as a democratic state in 1989.

Poland is a parliamentary republic, with its bicameral legislature comprising the Sejm and the Senate. It is a developed market and a high-income economy. Considered a middle power, Poland has the sixth-largest economy in the European Union by GDP (nominal) and the fifth-largest by GDP (PPP). It provides a very high standard of living, safety, and economic freedom, as well as free university education and a universal health care system. The country has 17 UNESCO World Heritage Sites, 15 of which are cultural. Poland is a founding member state of the United Nations, as well as a member of the World Trade Organization, OECD, NATO, and the European Union (including the Schengen Area).

• This lede is akin to ledes from other country pages. The current lede is bizarre—both too long and too poor at conveying information. And unlike ledes for other countries (Germany, France etc.)

FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 21:26, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Anyone? FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 04:36, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Btw I remembered the MoS recommends 4-paragraph ledes FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 04:40, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

I am not against either, but the 5 paragraph one is more on point with a distinguished separate geo paragraph and MoS is just a guideline. Unfortunately, this is not a GA article. Merangs (talk) 18:50, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

No other country page does a "distinguished geo paragraph" though. The Germany page is Featured, we oughta take an example from it, shouldn't we? FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 04:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Anyone? @Piotrus MoS recommends 4-paragraph ledes. I want this article to be Featured quality, like Germany. FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 22:54, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

@FeldmarschallGneisenau If nobody replies, be bold and change it as you see fit. I do not have the time & will do review things at the moment (things being, compare both leads word by word), but feel free to ping me if there is any specific element or elements (sentences, phrasing, etc.) that folks want to review. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:39, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Ps. I did have time to review the lead. I think this can be cut: "the Polish People's Republic was a founding signatory of the Warsaw Pact"; I think it is of trivial importance, and anyway, only USSR was the founding member that matters, every other country was a puppet state anyway. Instead, I'd suggest adding a few words about 19th century uprisings (January Uprising, November Uprising) which IMHO are much more relevant to the Polish history than the Warsaw Pact. Similar to the above, I have my doubts whether " Poland is a founding member state of the United Nations" is relevant - being a UN member is trivial, and being its founding member seems like trivia, IMHO. WTO and OECD are, I guess, symbol status in the international arena, and EU and NATO of course matter from geopolitical perspective, so they are fine. Final comment about the proposed lead: it should include word (and link) for 'Slavic' somewhere. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:46, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

I think it's OK to mention it because the Warsaw Pact was signed in Warsaw... which is a fact of some significance. FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 04:37, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Maybe that would be good for the Warsaw article, you can say Poland was a part of the pact. O.maximov (talk) 13:18, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus} is right, be bold. O.maximov (talk) 13:18, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

What are your suggestions? O.maximov (talk) 13:17, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

@O.maximov Feld... is now indef blocked. (Tip: enable seeing if a user is blocked in the preference settings by having them displayed as crossed out, together with making redirects green and disambigs orange :P). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:54, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the tip. Good to know. O.maximov (talk) 11:22, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Regional language

In Poland, Kashubian language is officialy recognized regional language. Please, somebody edit it.

Source: https://isap.sejm.gov.pl/isap.nsf/DocDetails.xsp?id=WDU20050170141 Shadow2005JM (talk) 07:01, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

It's not a second official language though. There is only one official language FeldmarschallGneisenau (talk) 00:47, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Official country name

Republic in Polish is Republika, Rzeczpospolita means Commonwealth, I think it's time to correct this mistake after such a long time, but I want to see if there's consensus for sure

Even https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rzeczpospolita_(disambiguation) says it's a word for commonwealth

Pospolita = Common it is quite literally a direct translation Octilllion (talk) 17:17, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Definitions of commonwealth: An independent country or community, especially a democratic republic.

A commonwealth can be a republic and it can be used as an alternative word for republic, one doesn't cross the other one out but Poland has chosen to name itself a commonwealth instead of a republic for historical reasons in it's constitution

I do not know who came up with the mistranslation to other languages Octilllion (talk) 17:20, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Have a look at Polish government websites () and see that 'Republic' is official in the English language, even though it may not be a direct translation of the term Rzeczpospolita. Merangs (talk) 20:28, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Commonwealth and Rzeczpospolita are translation of Latin res publica. Republic and Republika are assimilation of French république which also roots to Latin res publica. Wiki is tricky (talk) 11:44, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

References

maybe we just change the footnote "d" because like "Commonwealth", Rzeczpospolita is a translation of a republic and this should be more clear imo Braganza (talk) 16:07, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 April 2024

The following sentence misrepresents the cited article 158

"As with other post-communist countries, Poland suffered temporary declines in social, economic, and living standards,[157] but it became the first post-communist country to reach its pre-1989 GDP levels as early as 1995, largely due to its booming economy.[158]"

What the source actually discusses is not a booming economy, but an increase in unemployment. The article does support the claim of Poland reaching pre-1989 GDP levels as early as 1995, but the characterization associated with source 158 is misleading if not misinformed.

The author of the cited articles writes: "unemployment increased steadily except in the period 1996-1998 when the economy recovered growth. Meanwhile, real wages declined and the trend did not entirely reverse when growth returned."

This is does not support the claim made by the Wiki's author that the economy was "booming", and it certainly isn't explained in the source cited. The cited article is a good reference, but the sentence should remove the "largely due to its booming economy" and replace it with a reference to unemployment and wage declines in the Post-Communist economy. Maybesyd (talk) 19:01, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

@Maybesyd I suggest not using the number of the reference when you are referring to it. The number can change if someone adds a reference somewhere before it in the article. Shadow311 (talk) 13:43, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

 Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 22:31, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

What are gold standard sources for Polish history?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.205.250.115 (talk) 23:00, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Category:History books about Poland; in particular stuff by Norman Davies. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:55, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Is Poland a parliamentary republic or a semi-presidential one?

Over on the talk page for List of countries by system of government, there was a debate going on about whether Poland was parliamentary or semi-presidential. Before, the consensus was that it was de jure parliamentary, but de facto semi-presidential. However, some people have argued that even de jure it is semi-presidential, and that ended up being the new consensus taken. For making things consistent and not confusing, I wanted to open up the discussion here too, and have people debate whether we should change it from parliamentary to semi-presidential. ICommandeth (talk) 09:02, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Essentially, according to this source, the word "executive" is used explicitly to refer to the President's role, which fits in with the definition of a semi-presidential system, where the head of state is in charge of the executive and the head of government is in charge of the legislative branch. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 12:07, 24 August 2024 (UTC)