User talk:Ruud Koot

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TfD nomination of Template:Unicode Latin

Template:Unicode Latin has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — ✉Hello World! 06:35, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

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your reverts on the Muhammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī article

Hello. Can you please explain why you are reverting my edits on the Muhammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī article? Thanks. -- Behnam 09:44, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I am not making any claims. Ofcoarse his ethnicity was Persian. And like I explained several times, Persians and/or Persian-speakers living east of Iran and Central Asia were and still are called Tajik. I think you are confusing this term with the nationality of Tajikistan. This has nothing to do with the nationality of Tajikistan. Al-Khwarizmi was a Persian from Central Asia, and Persian of Central Asia are also known as Tajiks. Again this has nothing to do with Tajikistan and that nationality. Please read both the Persian people article and the Tajiks article and you will understand perfectly. I am reverting it back to my version and if after reading both those articles you disagree then... well I don't think you will disagree. I hope I am not wasting too much of your time. Thanks. -- Behnam 09:50, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think you read a word of what I just explained to you or either of the articles on Persian people and Tajiks. If you did you would not think that that means he is Tajik but not Persian and vice versa. I am not making any claims about his ethnicity and there is no dispute of him being Persian. Please read both those articles before making another revert. And yes I am aware of 3RR. Thanks. -- Behnam 09:59, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I see. But one source is Wikipedia itself. In Wikipedia Persians and/or Persian-speakers of Central Asia are also called Tajik and this is from two of Wikipedia's articles. I am just trying to maintain consistency with these terms which are defined in two Wiki articles. But if that is not good enough, here is one source I just found that also uses the term Tajik to refer to him being an ethnic Persian and/or him being Persian-speaker of Central Asia. It refers to him as being a "Tajik personality". [1]. -- Behnam 10:10, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Also, I don't think it is very redundant to cite this source. I am just using it to convince you, since no one else disputes this. And there are alot of people from WikiProject Iran and others keeping a watch on this article. These terms are common knowledge among people with a backround in Persian and Iranian history. So I don't think there is any point of citing this. It would be very redundant. -- Behnam 10:18, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I didn't know that you would see the changes. Actually being Persian and Tajik were both equivalent during the medieval era on the Iranian plateau and Central Asia. Ok I see why you would think that my source is not reliable, even though I think it is. I will try to find a source that directly calls him Tajik and is authoritve, though it will be very difficult because in the Western world the term Tajik is not used for Persian personalties, in English they exclusively use the term Persian. But, is Wikipedia itself not a reliable source? -- Behnam 10:34, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I know, you're right. I don't think I will find a source using the term Tajik along or instead of Persian since that word was rarely used in the Western world. Persian is the standard term used in the Western world (even though the native term for Persian is actually Farsi). But please keep in mind that even if I find a source, it will look very silly citing it. Also, I think this WP:V depends on an Admin's judgment. Is it ok with you if I get another Admin to judge whether this is WP:V or not? -- Behnam 10:53, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually if you look at the times on the history page you'll see that I did not revert since I started this discussion. There is a problem with Wiki tonight. Please undo my reporting of the 3RR violation. Thanks. -- Behnam 10:59, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Can you please confirm that? I really don't want to get banned just because Wiki is having problems with the Watchlists. Thanks. -- Behnam 11:10, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

No thats not the problem. Take a look at the times [2], its just that its not being updated. You already reverted my edit, its just not being updated for some reason. Do you see what I mean? -- Behnam 11:13, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Then this a glitch, it is showing the times wrong too. After I made that edit you reverted it saying "see re" or something like that. And see the number of my RVs, please count them, there is only 3. So I did not break 3RR. I think the glitch will be fixed later on. Until then, please undo my 3RR violation report. Thanks --Behnam 11:26, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Can you please confirm that you only count 3 on the history page in the past 24 hours by me? Thanks. --Behnam 11:34, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Template:IAST

I noticed that you made a change to Template:IAST, and I wonder if you would help me understand the technical issues of that change. Within the Hinduism project there has been some effort to rework the style standards for use of IAST, and a summary of the current thinking is at: User:Buddhipriya/IASTUsage. It would be very helpful to me if you would give that a read and make any comments on it that feel are relevant. If you can document the issues that pertain to handling of the IAST tag in different web browsers, that information can be added as well. Buddhipriya 21:07, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Replied at User talk:Buddhipriya#re: Template:IAST. —Ruud 21:26, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

re: Persien: bis zum Einbruch des Islam

No it does not use the term Tajik for him. On those pages 485-498, it explains that once Persian migrated to Central Asia, there they were called Tajik. So this source is indirect for him being called Tajik, doesn't call him that directly. --Behnam 09:31, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok thanks. I'll look for another source. --Behnam 09:46, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes you're right lol. I am actually not a math student, I am a science student and my interest is Iranology. That's what I work on on Wiki and with this I'm just trying to maintain consistency with the terms we defined in the other Iranology articles. Thanks, I actually think I know a source that I just thought of, but it is a very difficult book to find and my University's library does not have it. So it will take me a while to find that book. Thanks again. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Beh-nam (talk • contribs) 09:54, 9 April 2007 (UTC).

Template:MacTutor

Hi Ruud. It seems our edits crossed each other in some weird way on Template:MacTutor. But everything appears to be okay now. Sorry if I confused you; to be honest, I even confused myself! Cheers, Jitse Niesen (talk) 13:38, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, your edit summaries didn't quit match your edits, which confused me the most. —Ruud 14:35, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Translation

File:Al-Kitab al-mukhtasar fi hisab al-jabr wa-l-muqabala.jpg

Hello,The writting on the manuscript is not clear (Because of the photo size).However I can read some sentences .Apparently it is a cover of a collection of books for Al-Khawarizmi written by another writer(In classical Arabic which is understandable to most modern Arabs).It says:

• 1st line:The book of Al-khawarizmi,

Kitab Al-Khawarizmi

كتاب الخوارزمي .

• 2nd line:(there is a word I could not understand ,it seems like the word Shapes (أشكال)in Arabic) ;Classification of the respectable shaykh Abu abdullah.

Ashkal wa Tasneef Al-Shaykh Al-Ajall Abi Abdillah.

أشكال و تصنيف الشيخ الأجل أبي عبدالله

• 3rd line:Muhammad inb Musa Alkhawarizmi 'May Allah be pleased with him and mercy him".

Muhammad ibn Musa Al-Khawarizmi ,Radia allah anhu wa athabahu wa rahemah.

محمد بن موسى الخوارزمي رضي الله عنه و أثابه و رحمه

• 4th line (Some Islamic words and terms used as a Preamble )

Feehi (....Not sure about this word)Thunubahu wa khatayah alabdu alfaqeer.

فيه (لاستر) ذنوبه و خطاياه العبد الفقير

• 5th line:(The persons perhaps the writer) Khattab ibn Mohammad inb Ali.

Ila allah alghani beh , Khattab ibn Mohammad inb Ali.

الى الله الغني به ,خطاب بن محمد بن علي

• 6,7,8,9,10th lines:Ibn Hussain ibn Ali ibn Mohammad ibn Ali ibn Ahmad ibn Jafar ibn Alhussain ibn Yhaya ibn Ibrahim ibn Mohammad ibn Ibrahim ibn Ahmad ibn Almughira ibn Umran ibn Asem Ibn Alwaleed ibn Utbah ibn Rabeyah Ibn Abd-shams ibn Abd Manaf (I think this name means he is (perhaps the writer)from Quraish tribe,the Prophet's Muhammad tribe)

بن حسين بن علي بن محمد بن علي بن أحمد بن جعفر بن الحسين بن يحيى بن ابراهيم بن محمد بن ابراهيم بن أحمد بن المغيرة بن عمران بن عاصم بن الوليد بن عتبة بن ربيعة بن عبدشمس بن عبد مناف.

• 11,12,13th lines:some Islamic terms used as prayer for Al-Khawarizmi's great work.

Nafaahu allah bel'elmi wa alamali alsalehayn.

Wa hasbuna allah wa ne'ma al-wkeel.

نفعه الله بالعلم و العمل الصالحين

وحسبنا الله و نعم الوكيل

• The last 3 lines are not totally clear the only clear part is:

Salla allahu alayhi wa Sallam (a phrase that Muslims often say after saying the name of a prophet in Islam.[3])

صلى الله عليه و أله و سلم......

• The lines at the left hand side ,at the bottom talks about what is the book name or infact the collection of books:

1-Muqaddimat (......Unclear name)

Muqaddinat Al......

وفيه مقدمة(Unclear name not word).

2-The book of (Correspondence;Not sure about the translation of this word) on Calculation by Completion and Balancing.

Kitab Al-Murasala fi Algabri wa almuqabalah

وفيه كتاب المراسلة في الجبر و المقابلة

3-The sufficient Introduction on Calculation by Completion and Balancing.

Al-Muqaddimah Al-Kafiyah fi Algabri wa Almuqabala.

و فيه المقدمة الكافية في الجبر و المقابلة

Note:Some Arabic word have more than one meaning,therefore my transltion may not be totally accurate.You can ask another Arabic speaker user to confirm the translation and correct it if any mistakes found.Best regards:)--Aziz1005 14:41, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Image tagging for Image:Jamshid al-Kashi (stamp 1).jpg

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Problems with the logic programming article

Hi, Ruud. I'm wondering what can be done about the problems with the logic programming article. I thought my suggestion of a separate article on logical programming would solve the problem, but it seems that it might have only exacerbated it. We could revert the logic programming article again, as you did before, but it's not cleat that this would lead to a long-term solution. We could also delete the logical programming article and redirect it to logic programming, as Arthur Rubin did, but this might also just prolong the battle. I guess that you have a lot more experience of these matters than I do. Robert Kowalski 19:30, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Arabic mathematics

Most of them aren't Arab, why not make things simpler and easier by changing the category to "Islamic mathematics" which is the more common terminology anyways. --Mardavich 23:38, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

If you don’t mind me asking, why did you move the main article in the first place [4], I see no consensus or request to move the page. "Islamic mathematics" is the more common and appropriate title, the vast majority of these mathematics are not Arab, while only a few of them may not be Muslim. Islamic doesn't necessarily mean Muslim anyways. --Mardavich 23:59, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

If you have any familiarity with the subject you would know the terms are fully equivalent. If you had bothered to read the introduction you would know this term makes no judgement about the ethnicity or religion of the mathematicians who fall under this category. While term Islamic mathematics is used more and more nowadays it is not unquestionably the most common terminology. I made this non-controversial move last month because it is more consistent with the naming of the articles Chinese mathematics, Indian mathematics and because of the pragmatic reason that the article seems to attract less vandalism and other non-sense under this name. —Ruud 17:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

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MediaWiki_talk:Common.css#pseudo-classes

does this work for you?

• نستعلیق (Nafees Nastaleeq font)
• نستعلیق (ur)
• نستعلیق (ar)

I'm sitting at an Apple box, and while Firefox seems to cope with the pseudo-classes, it seems to override font selection for Arabic, while Safari appears to be unaware of pseudo-classes, but the explicit font-family: statement works (but, no contextual rendering). dab (𒁳) 14:14, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Jamshid Kashani

About the literature on Jamshid Kashani, a search on books.google.com shows that "Jamshid Kashani" and "Jamshid al-Kashi" have almost the same frequencies in the relevant English books. A search on the web shows that "Jamshid Kashani" is more common that "Jamshid al-Kashi" (1220 compared to 504). About the macrons, WP:AMOS is the relevant guideline here and it says "A strict transliteration should generally not be used". I should also remind you that saying "The fact that you dare to claim Jamshid Kashani is a more common transcription than Jamshīd al-Kāshī clearly shows you have no familiarity with the literature published on the history of mathematics" is an example of personal attack. Jahangard 18:00, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

If you do have familiarity with the subject then why did you dare to "google" this (which obviously gives very skewed results.) I assume you have access to a university library or JSTOR at least? —Ruud 18:32, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

The quote from AMOS refers to the fact that under-dots and half-rings shouldn't be used (because they don't appear correctly to some users.) Diacritics such as macrons are fine. —Ruud 18:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

WP:NAME recommends to use names and spellings which are more common in all English texts (not just a certain collection of Journals). To search over a wide range of books, Google Book Search is the best available tool (which can be easily checked by everyone). About WP:AMOS, it clearly recommends using the standard transliteration (rather than the strict tranliteration) in the title (in that page, standard transliteration refers to the simple transliteration, without macrons). By the way, I should remind you again that comments such as "If you do have familiarity with the subject then why did you dare to ..." are not recommended in Wikipedia. I prefer not to comment about my academic background or yours (you should comment on content, not on the contributor). Jahangard 22:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I have every right to questing the method you use make editorial decisions. That is not a personal attacks, so don't use that as an excuse to avoid justifying that method. Even Google Books (the results of which you should also never blindly trust) returns 4 results for "jamshid kasani" and 23 for "jamshid al-kashi". WP:AMOS is controversial, disputed, written by someone with a not so good understanding of the issues of Arabic transcription and transliteration, and certainly not with the usage of biographies on historical mathematicians in mind. For article naming you should not even refer to that page but to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Arabic) instead, which because of the before mentioned reasons was never promoted to guideline. —Ruud 23:49, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I didnt notice that:) but it could be configuration issue --Aziz1005 19:10, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Was there any space in that particular edit? can you explain more plz.--Aziz1005 19:13, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I think this is because of my computer.Sorry!--Aziz1005 19:23, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the solutions :) Im using multi-languages computer ,with English version of windows.--Aziz1005 19:34, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Al-Mu'taman ibn Hud

Hello Ruud, I think the article Al-Mu'taman ibn Hud which you have created is for Yusuf al-Mutamin can you please merge them?.Thanks--Aziz1005 02:43, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

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al-Jawharī

Do any of your sources mention al-Jawharī's ethnicity? I've been researching this, and he was apparently a Persian from Khorasan [5] [6], and his article made no mention of his ethnicity before Aziz1005 made this edit. --Mardavich 08:18, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Your irrelevant warning

Very funny. Edit war with who? where? 1 revert isn't considered edit war. Also mind WP:DTTR. (Arash the Archer 12:23, 30 April 2007 (UTC))