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Global warming

Kinda warped that defending people is considered impolite, eh? Thegreatdr 01:28, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is this related to [1] ? --Childhood's End 21:06, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Close, I understood the specific reference to be [2], where my "leave him alone" defense of Thegreatdr, was called unwarranted and impolite. I thought WMC was hounding Thegreatdr a bit.--Africangenesis 21:16, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Boy, after review, this Atlant is off the deep end. Talk about being hounded. Your post was pretty tame, and apropo. Atlant rubs in the disparity in power, that he can punish at the whim of his rather strained interpretation of your post, and emphasizes that only a cumbersome appeal process can check him. Why do we constantly make the mistake of giving authority to those who want it? It is a bad combination as LA repeatedly finds out.--Africangenesis 21:37, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I kinda share your view... It may be naive on my part, but I hope that he at least got the message, which was formulated quite diplomatically from the other admins, that he was quite off course with his accusations of "personal attack". Regards. --Childhood's End 17:35, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to Wikipedia

I have read several of your edits and your comments on Talk pages. I am glad to have someone join the discussion who is well informed and willing to "set the record straight." It is nice to have Thegreatdr here as well. RonCram 11:30, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanx for the welcome!--Africangenesis 18:57, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome!

Hello, Africangenesis, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I see you may be a New Zealander (or at least, appear to be by your edits). There are several NZ related Wikipedia pages.

Adding {{User New Zealand}} to your userpage will list you as a New Zealander.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! -gadfium 20:24, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Global warming

Please don't consider it ingracious, but just in case you have not seen the policy, Wikipedia prohibits any editor from reverting an article more than three times in 24 hours. See WP:3RR for more information. I look forward to your discussion on the talk page (I have replied to your note there already). Thanks and best wishes, --TeaDrinker 23:01, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanx for the notice. I don't consider edit warring a valid form of argument either. Hopefully others will think the same.--Africangenesis 23:04, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Global warming neutrality

I hope you noticed that there has been considerable discussion of the POV pushing and lack of neutrality in the into on the discussion page. It takes the form of few vs some arguments, etc. The "endorsements" are actually old and being used to support stronger more recent "conclusions" that did not even exist at the time. Will you discuss this on the dicussion page? --Africangenesis 23:09, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the note. I been reading the discussion page for some time, and am familiar with the accusations of POV pushing, etc. I am not sure what you mean by endorsements, but I would be happy to discuss topics related to editing the article on the talk page. Thanks again, --TeaDrinker 23:15, 1 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Password Security

Don't worry, that message is provided to remind everyone of having a secure password. If your account was hijacked for vandalism, you would be blocked and would probably be unable to log in. Rockpocket 07:16, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanx, I've seen some systems that run password crackers before notifications such as this.--Africangenesis 07:42, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think they are just running the crackers on the admin accounts to begin with (since they are the accounts that can cause serious damage), but they might get around to warning individual editors if this hijacking persists. Rockpocket 08:30, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your efforts

At Global Warming. You sure bring interesting perspectives. You are running into WP:OWN Problems there as well as the wild forking off of subjects into a byzantine array of articles. --Blue Tie 04:35, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your efforts as well. You are right to remind them occasionally about the POV material in the article. I'm not willing to edit war about it. My goal is to make the science as clear as possible in the article, if we get the science right then the "consensus" will look rediculous and intellectually dishonest. The place where the stand should be made is on the models. They will want the model results in without the details that models have errors larger than the energy imbalance they are trying to attribute. Based on the evidence, the models are irrelevant for attribution and projection, but we have to make the science clear and understandable, so that when we take the issue to the wider community, they can make an informed decision. It may take a temporary fork in the article, and then a poll of the community. A clean NPOV encyclopedic article will not have any of the "consensus", "few", and "only" spin in introduction. The real battle today was about the 0.85W/m^2 and 0.75W/m^2. The models are rediculously far from being able to represent those values, and the sad thing is, at least one of the WP:OWNers knows that, and a significant part of the climate community knows it too. They don't have a response, so they try to suppress the evidence. This is the anti-capitalist, anti-globalization rioters of Seattle, bringing mass-action "democracy" to the world of science. Unfortunately daemonization and shouting down of opposition has worked so far. Don't get me wrong, the climate community for the most part thinks they are right about their conclusions, and so they can justify in their minds, the suppressing the evidence about the problems and uncertainties and the daemonization of opponents, in the hopes that eventually they will be able to produce the evidence that will make their case. However, there is good reason to believe that in suppressing the evidence they are deluding themselves. The arguments and evidence they can't address should give them pause.--Africangenesis 05:36, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

At first, when reading your comments above, I was thinking that you had a "pov agenda". But after reading your comments a couple of times, I think perhaps your approach seems to be in harmony with WP:NPOV and is appropriate. I am unfamiliar with the models, but I am very familiar with modeling of both physical phenomenon and also economic matters. As a result, I understand the issue with results that lie within the error range of the outputs. At best, it is possible that you might find significance in a "trend" but you would not have any confidence in its predictive power. --Blue Tie 20:01, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Evolution

Hi there, I am grateful for your input and corrections and I hope I don't come across as if I'm trying to own the article or discount other people's views. As to my editing style, I'm afraid it was shaped on articles that weren't so heavily watched and I operated pretty much by myself, like Antioxidant, DNA, Bacteria and Enzyme kinetics. I'm trying to use more informative edit summaries from now on. All the best, TimVickers 00:47, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Accepted. We're OK.--Africangenesis 04:47, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Intelligent Design

(crossposted to both editors)

I know that things have gotten a little heated here, and I wanted to warn you about 3RR. You and the other editor both seem to be at the limit, and an unfriendly Admin might issue a block if things go any further today. I know, because it happened to me last year and now I have a "black mark" on my record. I can actually see both sides of the issue, and I think that further discussion with more input from other editors would really help. Doc Tropics 02:04, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I know this isn't the way to settle things, but it seems to be used quite often. Does my first edit count as a revert? If so, that would seem to favor the reverter over those making contributions. I'm curious.--Africangenesis 02:12, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This does happen all the time, but it's never as productive as talkpage discussions. If your first edit was to add your text, then that would probably not count as a revert. However, if an Admin interpreted things differently they might block both parties regardless. In any event, Kensosis seems determined to push things to the limit, so the only one who can de-escalate the situation is you. For what it's worth, I've seen you at Evolution a lot recently, and I think you do good work : ) Doc Tropics 02:21, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Point taken. -- thanx,--Africangenesis 02:23, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I

Aftica, I agree with your points. To me it is obvious that ID is the theory that life shows signs of design. And stops there. Now it is up a person's faith whether natural selection, God or aliens were the designer. But the article is owned by the anti-ID crowd. I have watched this for a while. Read the archives. One person and after another who agrees to what you are talking about are called disruptive/trolls and are eventually driven off or banned. That is the reality of wiki. I was called a troll because I expressed my opinion that Behe's math has some merit. That is not even allowed. However this is an interesting observation on how political science really is. ProtoCat 13:06, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanx, hopefully most areas of science are not so politicized. Regarding "it is up to a person's faith", since ID is framed as a scientific theory, it is up to the evidence. I don't think people of faith should have much hope that these theories will get them anywhere near where they want to go. I have a lot of religious and even fundamentalist friends, and I appreciate their earnest attempts to live lives of integrity. However, I worry that in trying to push things like ID too far, or in their attempts to develop an apologia for every problem in the Bible, they risk becoming too good at stretching and straining that integrity. I suspect that their God would appreciate a pure and loving spirit more than a chinkless apologia. Some things are a matter of faith.--Africangenesis 18:33, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just a brief follow-up note to thank you for remaining reasonable and civil in a heated situation. It's unfortunate that the other editor involved took exactly the opposite approach, and totally reamed me out for trying to help calm things down. In fact, he ordered me to refrain from any further posts to "his" talkpage (evidencing a certain lack of understanding about ownership issues. But at least you have behaved like a civilized and rational individual, and in my book that puts you way ahead. Happy editing! Doc Tropics 18:43, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There's a lot of scientism going on Wikipedia, especially when it comes to ID / evolution. I faced much hostility only to have ID removed as an example of junk science in the junk science article... It may be just a coincidence, but I noted that many of those hostile to ID were also oftenly those holding global warming science as unquestionable... --Childhood's End 17:45, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Science has earned a lot of credibility for its fearless open inquiry, and intellectual honesty and these elements will dissipate that credibility in less than a generation. Some kind of herd mentality has deprived them of the ability to distinguish their opinion from the evidence. They are too insecure to admit when they are wrong, and so fearful that there is no truth that they must shout to suppress their own doubts as much as to suppress the opposition. Homo sapiens may not have exterminated Homo erectus and Homo neantherdalis with a superior intellect, but with a new herd intensity and fervor. We may have won the day with a closed rather than an open mind. We may not be fully formed, but rather evolution short circuited by "success".--Africangenesis 20:53, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think that was an excellent point about Homo sapiens exterminating the others by the'herd' mentality rather than intellect. I think 'herd' is being mild. Maybe a ruthlessness that the other species did not have. It seems to be that the scientists today just do not want to admit they are wrong or do not know. I am shocked by the lack of objectiveness I see here in the comments and the articles. ProtoCat 11:43, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

3RR

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Global warming. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content which gains a consensus among editors. --Kim D. Petersen 06:06, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think I've ever reverted an edit. Others have reverted me. The latest is restoring a citation needed, that has only been reverted once.--Africangenesis 06:14, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

this this and this, are 3 reverts within the last 24 hours. The warning is standard - and shouldn't be considered as more than advising about the policy. The reason that its not given to others are that they are already aware about the policy. Ie. no need to warn more than once about the existance of such. --Kim D. Petersen 06:33, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That is different than reverting an edit. I'm no deletionist, I for giving everyone their say, and letting the reader sort it out. BTW, Teadrinker warned me above. thanx though.--Africangenesis 06:55, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ah - sorry - didn't see Teadrinkers warning. But the above diffs do count as reverts (just so you don't make a mistake :-). --Kim D. Petersen 07:23, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Civility

This [3] is incivil. Don't do it again William M. Connolley 09:26, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your WP:OWN behavior is more uncivil. You revert without careful consideration, and then call for sock puppets. You claim OR without specifics. Why can't you just come out and admit it when you are wrong. I've been wrong before, there is no shame in it, there might be embarrassement if one was a bit hasty in questioning someone elses motives and then calling for sockpuppets.--Africangenesis 09:30, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ag, you are starting to lose your cool. Step back. Falsely accusing others of sockpuppetry is the very definition of uncivil. Arjuna 10:07, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, you are misinterpreting this. William called for someone to revert for him, that person volunteered to be a "sockpuppet". I have not accused him of using a sock puppet in the sense that you mean, just the moral equivilent of it, if you like. The puppet admitted to just deferring to Williams expertise.--Africangenesis 10:15, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not that I want to introduce, but this [4] wasnt quite civil either... Let's just have both sides cool down. --Childhood's End 12:46, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's more of a personal attack, which is quite unbecoming of an administrator. It is duly noted. ~ UBeR 22:40, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Peer-review

If you had some ideas on how to improve the Evolution article, could you contribute to the peer-review? Thanks. TimVickers 20:51, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My Sincere Compliments

I have been reading the Global Warming discussion page and I notice that you remain almost 100% focused on restoring what may be called scientific reality to the issues of global warming. This in the face of considerable provocation from editors who guard their own interpretations and POVs like junkyard dogs —as if certainty had been won — and accuse you of POV pushing OR, bad faith, etc. You clearly know what you are talking about. I think you have amazing stamina in the face of reverts, hostility, and so forth, and that you show great courage in continuing your efforts. I admire you for that. —Blanchette 00:01, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Understanding warm bias in the temperature record

I know you have an interest in global warming. As you may know, there are serious problems with the temperature record being biased by UHI or similar warming biases related to land use changes, etc. ClimateAudit.org is organizing an effort to photograph sites. Understanding the issue will help you be a better editor and improve the quality of Wikipedia articles on AGW. If you are interested, you could be a part of the effort. Please take a look here. [5] RonCram 05:19, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanx there are two or three sites close by. If noone else picks them up in a week or so, I'll try to find the time to address them.--Africangenesis 08:31, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That would be great. Here are a few other links if you have not seen them. The website with the pictures is here. [6] Steve McIntyre fully supports the effort. [7] And so does Roger Pielke Sr. [8] Regards! RonCram 07:10, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unwarranted adjustments to the temperature record

The Global warming controversy article needs to address the controversy around unwarranted government adjustments to the temperature record. I am hoping you may be able to help with this. Compare the historical temperatures ranges in the two images and relative changes to years 1935 and 1998. The image from 1999 can be found here. [9] The image from 2007 is here.[10] In 1999, temps for 1935 and 1998 were the same. However, by 2007 the temp for 1998 was considerable higher than 1935. I have done enough reading now to be convinced that the 1990s were NOT warmer than the dust bowl years of the 1930s. I believe alarmists like Jim Hansen are playing with the temperature record. In effect, these "adjustments" to the temperature record are done in order to create evidence of global warming. I need some help locating additional reliable sources on temperature adjustments. If you would like to participate in this effort, you can go to my User Page and click the "Email this user" button and we can discuss where this information may be found.RonCram 11:22, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Left the project?

It appears you have left wikipedia. Have you? --Blue Tie (talk) 23:37, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've also been wondering... --Childhood's End (talk) 18:16, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A study on how to cover scientific uncertainties/controversies

Hi. I have emailed you to ask whether you would agree to participate in a short survey on how to cover scientific uncertainties/controversies in articles pertaining to global warming and climate change (survey described here). If interested, please email me Encyclopaedia21 (talk) 13:58, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Battleground behavior

This is in reference to two of your recent comments at Talk:global warming today:

12:24 "The clique that had controlled this article drove me and many other good editors away. I read at wattsupwiththat that this problem might have been rectified. I hope you aren't continuing the problem."
12:43 "Recall that I was the one that forced the cadre to admit..."

It looks as if you're poisoning the well by comparing reasonable discussion of your proposed edit to alleged misbehavior that you assign to a "cadre" or "clique". This isn't the right way to discuss edits on Wikipedia.

This despite the reasonableness of your editing, is a shame.

You may have heard of the recent arbitration case, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Climate change. Many editors were excluded for the kind of engagement with other editors that I think you're in danger of embarking on at this point. It was termed "battleground behavior" by the Arbitration Committee. Please read the discretionary sanctions remedy which specifies the necessary conditions for editing in this topic.

I'm very anxious, like you, to see editing conditions on these articles return to normal. Please let's work together to take the sting out of the talk page atmosphere so we concentrate only on the subject matter. I'm very pleased with your addition to the article as modified by Stephan Schulz and I hope we can work together productively. --TS 13:03, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm willing to consider the article with a clean slate, but it didn't help that you were so quick to revert. It took wikipedia a long time to fix the problems on the climate articles, lets hope they are really fixed. I notice Schulz is still around. Perhaps you can read the cite articles before reverting something that includes cites.--Africangenesis (talk) 13:15, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You made a bold edit, I reverted and we discussed on the talk page. That's a fairly common methodology for editing on controversial subjects on Wikipedia. --TS 13:22, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please avoid turns of phrase like this:

23:53 19th "So this is the tactic."

It sounds accusatory, as if you were saying I was up to no good. As does "Did you apply that standard to...?" I don't claim to have vetted the entire article, and I'm just trying to apply Wikipedia's content policies to your proposal to add material this article.

As I said above, I don't want the atmosphere to degenerate. So please be careful of the language you use on Wikipedia. --TS 00:04, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You claimed to have conducted a review in the last couple months for single source articles. If you don't want the atmosphere to degenrate, ask yourself what the current atmosphere would be without your participation.--Africangenesis (talk) 00:10, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I did a search for singleton articles. I didn't find many. I think the current atmosphere would be a lot nastier if somebody didn't remind people to tone it down a bit. --TS 00:13, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You think the atmosphere would be nastier of somebody didn't remind people to tone it down. I think the tactics and double standards and WP:OWN would be a lot worse if I didn't remind people when they were occurring. Perhaps together we can improve things a whole lot.--Africangenesis (talk) 00:21, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You're continuing to use talk:global warming to make attacks on other editors:

0:05 20th "So convincing you is the standard. WP:OWN"
10:14 'In the past, wasn't ownership of this more prominent article partially maintained by insisting that details relevant to disputes and credibility of the scientific claims on this page, be pushed off to other specialized, less prominent pages, i.e., isn't disputing edits on this page on such a basis, "battleground behavior"?'
11:04 "Also, in the time of the great ownership problem, one of the few consolations was that visitors could get a much better sense of the state of the science on the talk page than in the article proper. Because the discussions and ownership behavior on the talk page were often embarrassing to the owners, another frequent battleground behavior by the owners was more rapid archiving of the talk page. Since your sympathies were with the owners positions, if not their behavior, you may not have been sensitive to some of these tactics. You see, despite that fact that the talk pages were a battleground, that doesn't mean that they were devoid of information or that the battles themselves didn't inform visitors of how credible the page itself was. However, I doubt you were aware that increasing the speed of archiving was battleground behavior. It is less excusable now with wider availability of broadband than it was then. Hopefully, we can get more of the actual science in the article and rapid archiving will some day, not be considered battleground behavior."

Now there are ways to make points about methods of editing the content, and the rapidity of talk page archiving without attacking other editors. Please make your point without assuming bad faith as you do here. --TS 11:22, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me, you accused me of battleground behavior first, and now take umbrage when your own is pointed out. I'm supposed to assume good faith. Don't worry, you've taken care to document your side of it here, while making sure your own behavior will disappear through more rapid archiving of the global warming talk page. I did assume your good faith on that, but now I wonder. You certainly focus more of your time pointing out battleground behavior than you spend on the science. I much prefer to focus on the science.--Africangenesis (talk) 11:29, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If you think I'm in any way engaging in battleground behavior, please do tell me about it on my talk page, and if the problem behavior persists please do file a report at WP:AE. What I'm describing above is what perceive to be battleground behavior by you. You're still casting everything as an "us versus them" fight, which I don't think it is. The article talk page is for discussing the article, not trying to relegislate the arbitration case. --TS 11:42, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In order to help get things back on an even keel, I'm stepping back from the global warming article for a bit. My last act on the page today was to restore the 21-day archive period, which I had recently reduced to 10 days. I may make comments here if I think I need to, but I won't be intervening on that article or the talk page for at least the next few days. It's the best way I can think of to convince you I don't want a fight. --TS 11:47, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I appreciate that gesture, and will take it in the spirit in which you have offered it. My pointing out of your battleground behavior was not intended as a personal attack, but more as an opportunity to educate the community on how it should be sensitive to the more subtle kinds of battleground tactics that were and may yet agains be employed, and how someone with good intentions can become their innocent dupe. The sad thing is, the same ownership behavior was going on in the scientific journals of the climate science field as well. As someone who loves science and looks forward to future developments in this field, and seeing where the evidence falls, these have been disturbing and disillusioning times. I also have a high regard for what wikipedia has managed to accomplish in non-controversial articles. --Africangenesis (talk) 12:13, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

October 2010

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, we would like to remind you not to attack other editors, as you did on User talk:Mann jess. Please comment on the contributions and not the contributors. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. You are welcome to rephrase your comment as a civil criticism of the article. Thank you. I've warned you multiple times. Please stop commenting on other editors, and limit your replies to article content. Jess_talk|_edits 20:28, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 151: / Line 151: @@
 :Thanks, I appreciate that gesture, and will take it in the spirit in which you have offered it.  My pointing out of your battleground behavior was not intended as a personal attack, but more as an opportunity to educate the community on how it should be sensitive to the more subtle kinds of battleground tactics that were and may yet agains be employed, and how someone with good intentions can become their innocent dupe.  The sad thing is, the same ownership behavior was going on in the scientific journals of the climate science field as well.  As someone who loves science and looks forward to future developments in this field, and seeing where the evidence falls, these have been disturbing and disillusioning times.  I also have a high regard for what wikipedia has managed to accomplish in non-controversial articles. --[[User:Africangenesis|Africangenesis]] ([[User talk:Africangenesis#top|talk]]) 12:13, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
+== October 2010 ==
+[[Image:Information.svg|25px]] Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, we would like to remind you not to [[Wikipedia:No personal attacks|attack]] other editors, as you did on [[:User talk:Mann jess]]. Please comment on the contributions and not the contributors. Take a look at the [[Wikipedia:Introduction|welcome page]] to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. You are welcome to rephrase your comment as a civil criticism of the article. Thank you.<!-- Template:uw-npa1 --> ''I've warned you multiple times. Please stop commenting on other editors, and limit your replies to article content. '' <span>[[User:Mann_jess|<b style="border:1px solid #000;padding:4px">Jess</b>]]<span style="margin:0 5px;font-variant:small-caps;position:relative;top:-6px"><sub>[[User_talk:Mann_jess|talk]]</sub>&#124;<sub>[[User:Mann_jess/Cs|edits]]</sub></span></span> 20:28, 21 October 2010 (UTC)