:::::Added. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 15:21, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
:::::Added. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 15:21, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
:Which blurb should I use?--[[User:Lucky102|Lucky102]] ([[User talk:Lucky102|talk]]) 15:51, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
:Which blurb should I use?--[[User:Lucky102|Lucky102]] ([[User talk:Lucky102|talk]]) 15:51, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
*I've reworded the blurb, but I doubt it's to anyone's liking. First, there seemed to be some desire to put more information about the storm's effects in the U.S., instead of just the fact it made landfall. There has been a lot of focus on the flooding in New York, and rightfully so for a major influential city, but the "worst flooding" claim is not actually in the article, so I didn't put that. The two things that people seem to keep repeating are in regards to (a) mentioning the loss of human life and (b) treating the Caribbean and the United States equally. For the first point, we are not compelled to mention death at every corner; it goes without saying that a storm that has caused widespread damage has killed people, and the numbers are imprecise at the moment. (Note, for example, that the suggest blurbs mention fewer than twenty people killed in the U.S.; the article puts that number above 200). So, we really don't need to mention it; the number of people killed is not the particularly notable aspect of this story, as is rarely the case when hurricanes strike developed countries. As for the second point, it struck Jamaica six days ago and effectively left the Caribbean a few days ago. Were it not for its effect on the U.S., Hurricane Sandy would be off ITN by now. There's no need to go into depth about what happened a few days ago when the story is what's happening now in the United States. (And, likewise, I've omitted Canada, as the damage does not seem to be as significant, even if not insignificant, so far north.) Keeping detail for the purpose of some supposed equality, at the expense of more pertinent information, is a terrible idea. -- '''[[User:Tariqabjotu|<font color="black">tariq</font><font color="gray">abjotu</font>]]''' 16:25, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section – it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.
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Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards.
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Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate.
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Ahead of the first preview of his new play, Alan Bennett reveals it emerged as a result of disquiet at the National Trust and laments a nation turned into a "captive market" where public life exhibits a "diminution of magnanimity." (The Guardian)
Organisers of a proposed free public event on Homo floresiensis are forced to change the event's title after use of the word "hobbit", the creature's nickname, is forbidden by the representatives of the Tolkien Estate. (The Guardian)
A suburban Chicago woman, Elzbieta Plackowska, 40, of Naperville, Illinois, is held without bail after allegedly fatally stabbing her 7-year-old son, Justin, Tuesday night 100 times, and then killing a 5-year-old girl, Olivia Dworakowski, who she had been babysitting and who had witnessed the homicide. She told investigators she did it because she was angry with her husband, a truck driver who was often away, leaving her to do work as a maid and care for the child, work that supposedly was beneath her, according to DuPage County, IllinoisState's AttorneyRobert Berlin. (Peoria Journal Star)
Given the widespread effects of Sandy and the frequently changing and voluminous news coming out about it, which can be expected for a few days, would it be too early to discuss converting the Sandy blurb to a sticky? We could perhaps replace the Syria war sticky with this one. While the Syrian war is still going on, the war has reached a sort of steady-state, without any "new" news on any given day. The Sandy situation is dynamic and actively changing and would be well suited for a sticky. Any opinions on the matter? --Jayron3204:43, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think a sticky would be largely redundant. The event itself is projected to last for less than a week, and I take it as given that we will update the blurb at least once more, possibly twice. By the time the updated blurb falls off of ITN, there will probably no longer be a justification for a sticky. —WFC— FL wishlist07:48, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong objection. The toll in the US is 20% of that in the Caribbean islands, so anything that generates coverage that is not in proportion to that is pure systemic bias. We already have the appalling position of making 65 deaths no more than a minor clause to the indignation that nature has dared to infringe upon US soil. Kevin McE (talk) 09:45, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As per WFC, a sticky is not necessary. However we could keep it at/near the top of the list until it stops being a lethal storm, which I think is what the OP was implying anyway. LukeSurltc10:10, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. You cannot be serious - replace Syria with this? There were car bombings in Damascus yesterday and people are dying in their hundreds there every day. And Haiti has been absolutely pulverized, yet the only attention this got from the English-language media before it landed in the United States was its imminent arrival in the United States(!) --86.40.101.235 (talk) 16:05, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hurricane Sandy
Article:Hurricane Sandy (talk·history·tag) Blurb: It is confirmd that Hurricane Sandy has killed 16 people in the United States. (Post) Alternative blurb: Hurricane Sandy has made landfall in the U.S and Canada, killing 17 people, having killed 69 in the Caribbean. News source(s):[1], [2], [3] Credits:
Oppose - If we're going to include the US death toll, let's have "...makes landfall...killing X in the United States and Canada, having previously killed Y in the Caribbean." (Checking to see if more recent figures are available for the Caribbean while we're at it.) AlexTiefling (talk) 10:53, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Limited support for alt blurb: better than existing text, but dead people are dead people of equal tragedy, and do not need to be subdivided by nationality. Kevin McE (talk) 12:19, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Kevin McE that deaths are equal, and I find the idea of subdividing by nationality troublesome. I would suggest not trying to estimate the North American deaths until the storm has passed as while the disaster is ongoing estimates are going to be very difficult to achieve. Suggest, once storm has passed, "Hurricane Sandy hits the Caribbean and North America, killing at least X" LukeSurltc12:49, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
How about an alternate, alternate blurb as follows:
Hurricane Sandy causes widespread damage and loss of life in the Caribbean and eastern North America.
That covers our bases, doesn't emphasize any one country over another, and readers can still click the blue link to learn more. --Jayron3212:54, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I was thinking more of the time-difference between events in the Caribbean and those on the mainland; I wasn't intending a specifically national divide. I stand by my support for the alt-blurb. AlexTiefling (talk) 13:03, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The effects of this have been massive. The entire metropolitan area of NY and several other cities has effectively been shut down. All mass transit is closed for at least 2 days; all bridges and tunnels to/from Manhattan and Staten island were closed; damage everywhere you look. Over 2 million people are without power. The entire financial district of Manhattan was flooded as were other districts. Several weather experts are saying this is the worst storm to hit the area in over 100 years. No, due to it being a modern country with robust disaster response resources, and that there was time to prepare, 'only' 15+ people were killed compared with over 60 in the Caribbean; but the effects in other ways are more than notable--they're historic. As far as the sticky is concerned above I am against that per WFC.--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:44, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Given we have damage reports, a new blurb based on that is justified. But a vaguer blurb makes no sense. Why then even change it? And being informative is not playing favorites. The US death total (18 now) seems relevant, as is the record flooding of NYC with many subways fully under water, 100 homes burnt down in Queens, the WTC site flooded and Wall Street closed for two days the first time in 100 years. But combining the death totals from events a week apart will make people think we are saying all (69+18=87) died in the US. I think something like altblurb:
I've reworded the blurb, but I doubt it's to anyone's liking. First, there seemed to be some desire to put more information about the storm's effects in the U.S., instead of just the fact it made landfall. There has been a lot of focus on the flooding in New York, and rightfully so for a major influential city, but the "worst flooding" claim is not actually in the article, so I didn't put that. The two things that people seem to keep repeating are in regards to (a) mentioning the loss of human life and (b) treating the Caribbean and the United States equally. For the first point, we are not compelled to mention death at every corner; it goes without saying that a storm that has caused widespread damage has killed people, and the numbers are imprecise at the moment. (Note, for example, that the suggest blurbs mention fewer than twenty people killed in the U.S.; the article puts that number above 200). So, we really don't need to mention it; the number of people killed is not the particularly notable aspect of this story, as is rarely the case when hurricanes strike developed countries. As for the second point, it struck Jamaica six days ago and effectively left the Caribbean a few days ago. Were it not for its effect on the U.S., Hurricane Sandy would be off ITN by now. There's no need to go into depth about what happened a few days ago when the story is what's happening now in the United States. (And, likewise, I've omitted Canada, as the damage does not seem to be as significant, even if not insignificant, so far north.) Keeping detail for the purpose of some supposed equality, at the expense of more pertinent information, is a terrible idea. -- tariqabjotu16:25, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Two deadly car bombings rock Damascus, according to Syrian state media. (BBC)
Bahraini uprising: Anti-government protests are banned and legal action is threatened against those backing the protests. (Al Jazeera)
Police attack thousands of demonstrators with tear gas and water cannons in Ankara during the celebrations of the anniversary of the foundation of the Republic of Turkey. (Al Jazeera)
Activists descend on the city of Paju to float 50,000 propaganda leaflets on balloons into North Korea, despite protests from local South Korean residents concerned at provoking a military response. (BBC)
The U.S. Supreme Court declines to take on the review of an abortion-related appeal. The case, which is a proposed measure to amend the Oklahoma state constitution that was unanimously struck down by the Oklahoma Supreme Court, dealt with the constitutionality of state "personhood" laws that endorse the viewpoint that human life begins at conception, and would give human embryos rights and privileges given to citizens, which could have made it more difficult to have abortions for non-emergency reasons. (CNN)
Registered child sex offenders in Simi Valley, California, will not have to post a sign outside their home this Halloween reading in part "no candy," but they still are prohibited from decorating their houses and handing out candy, U.S. District Judge Percy Anderson ruled Tuesday, in a partial victory for the suing offenders and their wives before Halloween. (CNN)
Nominator's comments: This is in the news right now (check it out if you don't believe me) and the Wikipedia article is in a decent state. Given those criteria, this seems like it is main page ready. --Jayron32 14:17, 29 October 2012 (UTC) --Jayron3214:17, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The blurb could be reflected that much of NYC and the eastern seaboard is shutting down this afternoon in preparation for the strike, but I think it will be better to wait to see what/if damage it does to the shoreline (eg wait until tomorrow to see what comes). --MASEM (t) 14:28, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Why? Isn't the article in a decent state now? There's many lines of text on the effect on the Caribbean already in the article. If and when further damage is included in the article, the blurb can be updated, but I think we have plenty here on its effects already in the Caribbean that we don't have to wait for anything to happen to the U.S. --Jayron3214:30, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The point it, it is already on the main page in the ITN box, after the 40+ deaths in the Caribbean. Now it is about 3-5 hrs out from hitting the NE US seaboard, and that will likely need a blurb change if there's major effects there. --MASEM (t) 15:14, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment A simple factual update and bump to the top will be justified around 8-10pm local time when the storm makes landfall. Something like Altblurb: "After killing at least 65 in the Caribbean, Hurricane Sandy makes landfall in Cape May, New Jersey" (or wherever it hits). This factual and encyclopedic, rather than sensationalist focus will avoid the the typical media obsession on New York City for a storm that will strike south of Philadelphia. Further updates can be made once the damage is clear in the following days. μηδείς (talk) 14:45, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with this, although it's clear from storm surge predictions that although the eye will make landfall somewhere down the far end of NJ, the shape of the New York Bight means that NYC will have an especially rough time of it. But I do think that the purely technical update will be fine until the human impact on the mainland can be assessed more clearly. NYC is not, after all, the centre of the universe. (Everyone knows that's London, right?) AlexTiefling (talk) 14:53, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I am an idiot. Feel free to withdraw this now. I totally didn't see it in the ITN template already. I would support an update and bump when conditions warrent, but yeah, sorry about all of that. Close this someone and someone can deliver me a whack with a medium-sized freshwater game fish at your earliest convenience. --Jayron3216:44, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I did think it was odd this seemed higher than I remembered--that's okay Jayron, it does need updating, and this should just be treated as the discussion for that. Local news here is in a panic, but I guess that goes without saying. μηδείς (talk) 18:59, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strongly object to current update: merely making landfall is something we would not even remotely consider posting for storms/hurricanes/typhoons anywhere else in the world. Making 65 Caribbean deaths subsidiary to the mere fact of reaching land is an appalling level of bias. We didn't even bother acknowledging the dignity of sovereign nations enough to name them in its progress through the Caribbean: now the identity of the nearest town is considered important! Also immensely disrespectful to those who have died in the US: the loss of their relatives is ignored to record the long inevitable fact of the storm reaching land. Suggest The death toll of Hurricane Sandy reaches 78 after it reaches the US.Kevin McE (talk) 09:55, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support the current update. The making landfall in the US is what is in the news right now. The current blurb also usefully discusses the Caribbean impact (a few days ago, casualties largely known) and the US impact (current, largely unknown effect) in the most succinct way I can think of. LukeSurltc10:14, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The effects of this have been massive. The entire metropolitan area of NY and several other cities has effectively been shut down. All mass transit is closed for at least 2 days; all bridges and tunnels to/from Manhattan and Staten island were closed; damage everywhere you look. Over 2 million people are without power. The entire financial district of Manhattan was flooded as were other districts. Several weather experts are saying this is the worst storm to hit the area in over 100 years. No, due to it being a modern country with robust disaster response resources, and that there was time to prepare, 'only' 15+ people were killed compared with over 60 in the Caribbean; but the effects in other ways are more than notable--they're historic. As far as the sticky is concerned above I am against that per WFC.--Johnsemlak (talk) 14:44, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Opposition activists report at least 128 deaths around the country, as the UN-brokered ceasefire appears to collapse. The Syrian Army bombards three Damascus districts and the city of Bara near Idlib, killing at least 22 people. (CNN)(Reuters)[permanent dead link]
Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Comment: Can we get a quick update on Game 4 as well? It's definitely ITNR, but it would be nice if all 4 games were updated with text. --Jayron3204:26, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Article needs updating The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Article needs updating The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Wait for result - the results aren't in yet. Exit polls put Party of the Regions on ~28% and United Opposition Fatherland on ~25%, but the count hasn't taken place. Also, if those estimates are correct, PoR will have a "plurality", not a "majority". --RA (talk) 22:03, 28 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Now There's no need to wait for exact results that will be updated when we have them, a link to the article as it stands now is appropriate. μηδείς (talk) 06:42, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Counting is on-going, and should be completed this evening, let's wait for the result and not post based on predictions. --RA (talk) 12:45, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support when updated. An article that is not up to date cannot be featured in ITN. The incoming results are still contradictory (first exit polls showed opposition in lead, preliminary results from the electoral commission favor the governing party), the article should inform about reported irregularities, observers' comments, domestic and international reactions. --RJFF (talk) 09:27, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Article needs updating One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Iraqi insurgency: A series of attacks across Iraq kill 46 and injured 123 others. (BBC)
Several injuries occur as police use rubber-coated steel bullets and tear gas to disperse people at the Olympia Stadium in Rustenburg, South Africa. (Al Jazeera)
Business and economics
Thousands of people join protests against budget cuts in Madrid and ask that the government quit. Riot police greet the demonstrators. (BBC)(Al Jazeera)
The family of disgraced disc jockey and television presenter Jimmy Savile makes its first public statement since his reputation was destroyed by a sexual abuse scandal. (CNN)(BBC)
A statement from the Vatican claims it is not possible to strip Savile of his papal knighthood over his involvement in the sexual abuse scandal because the honour ceased to exist upon his death. Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi makes it known that the Vatican is "deeply saddened that a person who has been stained by such acts could in his lifetime have been proposed for an honour by the Holy See." (The Irish Times)
Comment I don't have strong feelings about the notability or non-notability of this nom, but the article seems to fall very short in sourcing. Only 5 footnotes, one of which is to Twitter and another is flagged as "not in citation given", over 20 or so paragraphs. -- Khazar2 (talk) 11:48, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment If it would only be about notability, I would easily support this nomination, as Henze was a very important modern composer for sure. But the lack of footnotes is a problem. --RJFF (talk) 15:29, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Can someone recommend a well received or popular work or two of his? Reader interest in him is about half Barzun's according to check views. Barzun's writing is widely available. But for a musician I'd like to heaer some of the music. μηδείς (talk) 18:26, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Fighting in Syria continues as the ceasefire agreement mediated by U.N. special envoy Lakhdar Brahimi to occur during the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Adha begins. (Christian Science Monitor)
A car bomb explodes in the capital Damascus, killing an unknown number of people and injuring many. (Reuters)
Writer Javier Marías rejects the Spanish government's National Novel Prize, awarded for his novel Los enamoramientos, saying "All my life I have managed to avoid state institutions, regardless of which party was in government, and I have turned down all income from the public purse. I don't want to be seen as an author who is favoured by any particular government." (The Guardian)
Russian leftist protest leader Sergei Udaltsov is charged with plotting "mass disorder" and could face a 10 year prison sentence if convicted. (RIA Novosti)
Nominator's comments: Beyond the death toll (which already is said by some sources to be worse than June's), thousands of homes have been destroyed and many more Rohingya (Burmese Muslims) find themselves caught between the Bangladeshi and Burmese borders. As for coverage, it's currently on the front page of Al Jazeera and New York Times (though it's small on the latter); was in the top five for BBC earlier today. --Khazar2 (talk) 04:25, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support - The BBC have reported that the Burmese government has claimed responsibility for the burning of civilian properties. This rises above the background rumbling of this conflict, and is a clearly notable incident. AlexTiefling (talk) 19:33, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ready? - This one ready, then? Lots of support, 8-10 sentence sourced update. -- Khazar2 (talk)
Nominator's comments: More damage and disruption is expected if/when it hits the United States, but it seems to be notable enough to post now due to the damage already inflicted in the Caribbean. ----Bongwarrior (talk) 01:01, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Keep this as top story and update blurb as necessary as the situation develops, only let it drop once the storm has dissipated. This is an exceptional case of a news story being continually notable for several days. LukeSurltc21:10, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Described in the Wash Post as "one of the foremost intellectuals of the 20th century", "someone to whom experts turn for help in their fields", described in Newsweek as "one of the great one-man shows of Western letters." Academic, cultural historian, noted for scholarly comments on music and baseball, Cover of Time Magazine in 1956, Published his NYT best-selling magnum opus at 92 in 2000, Presidential Medal of Freedom winner in 2003. Knight in the French Legion of Honor, A very high quality candidate. ---- μηδείς (talk) 16:18, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Well he was American after all, so them thinking that in New York and Washington is hardly surprising. Time 100 mainly features Americans. What does the rest of the world think of him? --86.40.98.160 (talk) 16:29, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Do not complain about an event only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive." --Jayron3217:22, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
According to his article, Barzun was awarded a knighthood in the French Legion of Honor. His career, spawning "dizaines d'oeuvres et d'essais sur tous les genres, allant de la philosophie aux romans noirs", is noted in France's biggest news weekly, Le Nouvel Observateur, which said "il a connu un rayonnement international avec la sortie de "From dawn to decadence". As for the IP editor, what a tragedy for him not to be American, or smart enough like Barzun to move to America, where everyone gets a President Medal of Freedom for just being American. μηδείς (talk) 17:57, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Barzun is not especially associated with America, except for his efforts in Houser of Intellect and the like. And of course he was born French. 72.228.190.243 (talk) 22:32, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Clarifying a) I'm not anyone else in this thread, b) I meant Barzun subject matter wasn't assoc. with America, he himself is, and C) no opinion on ready or not, just corrected a typo when it was first marked so. 72.228.190.243 (talk) 21:00, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ready There are no opposes and no tags. The article is updated. [6]. I am the nominator, but I am confident there is no problem marking this ready. μηδείς (talk) 23:08, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Not ready I'm starting to think the [Ready] tag should be discontinued considering half of the time it's put up when there clearly is no update. A single twelve-word sentence does not constitute a sufficient update, even for the death ticker. -- tariqabjotu07:08, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ready I am not sure how you get only one sentence of twelve words. This is indeed well updated, going from 18,719 bytes to 21,570 since his death. Compare [7]. I see six new sentences/phrases beginning: (1) and for his New York Times best-selling magnum opus, From Dawn to Decadence: 500 Years of Western Cultural Life, 1500 to the Present, published in 2000, when he was 93 years of age. (lead), (2) was a drama critic of the Columbia Daily Spectator (life), (3) Barzun died peacefully in his home (life), (4) His widely quoted statement, “Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball.” was inscribed on a plaque at the Baseball Hall of Fame. (career), (5) With this work he gained an international reputation. (career), (6) In his philosophy of writing history, Barzun emphasized the role of storytelling over the use of academic jargon and detached analysis. He concluded in From Dawn to Decadence that "history cannot be a science; it is the very opposite, in that its interest resides in the particulars." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Medeis (talk • contribs)
In practice the update usually is at least one full paragraph on the death itself. While I broadly agree updated content elsewhere in the article should be considered, 6 new sentences spread throughout the article is not enough IMO. I agree it's not ready. Also, the article is rated start-class. Also the ready tag was added inappropriately.--Johnsemlak (talk) 12:33, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Frankly, if there is much to add to the article arising from what is published after his death, there was evidently little interest in making his article comprehensive before his death. So If his article was not of great interest to our readership a week ago, why should we assume that it is now. Therefore opposeKevin McE (talk) 14:22, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
KevinMcE, I've certainly used that line of oppose before, and I do think there's some validity to it. But many wikipedia articles are undeveloped relative to either the subject's notability or reader interest. On-wiki interest isn't always a fair gauge.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:40, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Whoa. Johnsemlak, I'm sorry but you and Tariqabjotu seem to be inventing rules. Can you guys please point to where it says which five sentences matter? Because of the diversity of content, each article is unique and needs to be evaluated individually, in my view. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:14, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Susan, the five sentence update has long been the standard for an article update (I believe that's specified in the page on admin instructions for editing the ITN template) for any ITN blurb. Whether the same update standard needs to be applied for death-ticker nominations is not something we've resolved I believe. As I've posted on the talk page, I don't think we should have the same standard for the recent deaths ticker.--Johnsemlak (talk) 18:40, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Jail sentence for an ex-premier is clearly noteworthy, especially one with a history like Berlusconi, whose businesses always played a huge role in his career. Regards SoWhy15:40, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Its upto us to decide. In this case i would say it makes no difference if he goes to prison or not, just the fact he got convicted is quite big -- Ashish-g5516:30, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
zOMG Italian Cultural Bias! How many Italy stories are we gonna post here! We need more diversity! Oh, yeah, support Major news, former world leader gets convicted is a pretty highly important story, and this one is easy to see that it's all over the major news outlets. --Jayron3217:24, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support as per those above, clearly notable. It's unlikely he'll actually see the inside of a jail cell (thanks largely to some loopholes created by laws he passed), so this is the best time to post. LukeSurltc19:22, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, that's why. I just read the article closely and this jail sentence appears to only be mentioned briefly at the end of the lede. Wish I could help but am unable to spare extra time. Anyone? Jusdafax19:41, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Updated I have added three more sentences re the conviction, sentencing, reduction of sentence, fines and disbarment from office. There is a tag complaining the lead is too long, but that strikes me as bollocks for such a big article. I am marking this ready. μηδείς (talk) 20:07, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Featuring the new Metro interface paradigm and desktop-tablet fusion, it is not just another Windows release but a big gamble by Microsoft. A very respectable percentage of the planet's population will use it at some point. Yes, it is a product release, but a significant one. Windows has a huge monopolistic market share, so it is fair to feature this and not Mac OS X or Linux. Thue (talk) 11:54, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral, The release of a new Windows OS is important news to myself and many others, and I feel impartial news coverage could be applied here like it is on many sites. But I cannot support for reasons belonging to how much news coverage this has garnered, and the general impact of this. --Klak of Klak (talk) 12:37, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Suppose I would support if Windows 7 and Windows Vista were posted in their time, but oppose otherwise. This isn't just about tablets - it is supposed to be the next version of desktop as well. But will offices upgrade to Windows 8? I don't think they will. How many offices have or want touchscreens? Computers aren't getting much faster these days, so no urge to upgrade. 2.97.21.21 (talk) 13:04, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support this is not about PRing or advertising, but about the most popular OS in the world. Plus we posted iPad 2 when it was launched and that product has less of a worldwide relevance than windows 8. Nergaal (talk) 13:10, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Did we really post iPad 2? I would certainly not have supported that. The Windows 8 release is much more interesting than the iPad 2 release. Thue (talk) 13:41, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Nothing groundbreaking, and it'll simply be replaced with another OS in a few years anyway. Why bother posting an advert? GRAPPLEX13:43, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Actually somewhat groundbreaking, since the are changing the basic desktop start button interface which has been in place since Windows 95. The changes are very user-visible. Thue (talk) 13:48, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It not just looks differently, it behaves differently; more than a skin. And an app store, which is actually also a big deal for the global software market, with whiffs of monopoly. Thue (talk) 13:57, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
These are still pretty much incremental and cosmetic changes, there is nothing that this release has done, relevant to its precursors, that the previous or next ones haven't done. It's just another step along a constantly-updating road. GRAPPLEX14:00, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
While there is no groundbreaking science that hasn't been done before here, the difference here is market penetration. The median Wikipedia reader will encounter Windows 8, and probably spend hours trying to figure out the new interface paradigm. If you take the cumulative effect on peoples' lives as a criteria for newsworthiness (and I do), then the Windows 8 release should qualify. Thue (talk) 14:29, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"There is no groundbreaking science" - so it's not notable. "....difference here is market penetration" - this is not something you can't use on ITN/C. "...cumulative effect on peoples' lives as a criteria for newsworthiness (and I do), then the Windows 8 release should qualify" - Well we don't, so it won't. doktorbwordsdeeds16:10, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What is that even supposed to mean? Fairness doesn't enter in to it, the only point with the monopoly argument is whether the product will affect enough people to be newsworthy. Thue (talk) 13:57, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
To be honest, Thue, your nominator comments don't help. It's a paragraph of PR speak and advertiser's guff (nobody outside an advertising agency uses the term 'paradigm'). As with the discussion above, all that's changed is the look. It's not creating something new, it's just an update. This is ITN, where news stories are debated and occasionally published on the front page. "Microsoft releases an update to a service it provides" is not news, it's just a PR release. doktorbwordsdeeds14:40, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose If Apple products are rejected here, then why would we promote a Microsoft product? Even if "Windows is the operating system found on 92% of the world's computers", Windows 8 won't be. My computer didn't automatically update from Windows 7 overnight. There would need to be something truly revolutionary in this release for it to merit promotion. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:57, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's all much of a muchness. Previous Windows OS have featured multi-touch support; this one has more (OS X also features multi-touch support, although I have no idea how that compares to Windows). Either way, that's evolution. —WFC— FL wishlist15:27, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment It would be disruptive to !vote solely on this basis, but consider the difference between Ceefax and what came before it, and the impact it in turn had on future technologies. Then consider the same questions for recent versions of Windows. I don't dispute that every version of Windows is a significant improvement on its predecessor, but most versions are evolutions rather than revolutions. —WFC— FL wishlist15:27, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It's an update, with some new bells and whistles - happens fairly regularly and nothing we haven't seen already somewhere else in some way or another, so not noteworthy enough for ITN --PopularMax (talk) 15:29, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support - Largest change to Windows in my lifetime. These "regular updates" tend to happen only once every three years. This isn't one of those every other month Google Chrome updates. Also the arguments that the main page shouldn't ever be used for product news sound like the musings of an anti-corporate activist. That's not objective.
Let me pose another equally inane argument: Mitt Romney winning the U.S. presidential election is not notable enough for ITN. "Romney is not an upgrade of Obama. Romney is just more of the same narrow political spectrum. Ron Paul is the only candidate who is revolutionary enough for ITN. Ron Paul for prez 2016!" Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 22:51, 27 October 2012 (UTC) Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 22:51, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's a ridiculous comparison. Another incremental product upgrade is not even remotely comparable to a major political election in a huge country, nor are there neutrality issues associated with posting the winner of an election, as it doesn't suggest a favourable disposition towards one or the other candidate, when posting one business' press release and not those of their competitors does. Simply put, this is a terrible idea to post. GRAPPLEX23:09, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see how posting the winner of an election is more neutral than posting the release of a software product when much of Wikipedia's bad press revolves around its liberal bias. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 23:28, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Please explain to me very slowly what in holy fuck the idea of not pandering to one company at the expense of its competitors has to do with "liberal bias". I'll wait. GRAPPLEX23:30, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm just another volunteer here so don't over-escalate this please. Poor, unprofitable *sarc* Apple stands to lose nothing from its 7.62% and growing market share who, like 47%, can afford to but will not switch to Windows anyway. So whatever Microsoft gains from Windows 8 (Windows directly constitutes something like one quarter of its revenue), nobody loses. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 23:59, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This is almost the worst ITN argument I've ever seen. What bad press? What liberal bias? What on earth does any of this have to do with Windows 8? Do I really have to spell it out to you why election results are both newsworthy and not a source of political bias? AlexTiefling (talk) 23:35, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
220 years of U.S. elections have yielded relatively less progress than the last decade fueled by technology. You can use several metrics, (quantity of bombs dropped, incidence of violent crime). I don't think were electing better leaders (would we see the same progress in the 1800s if Obama was president?) He didn't build that. I'm not saying Windows 7 was directly responsible for the Arab Spring but it has paved the way. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 00:22, 28 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
By that logic, so did the availability of computer hardware. Are we going to post every new laptop model too? Of course not. This is simply an advert, it is not a political statement and it is in no way comparable to politics or elections or revolutions, grow up and admit it's simply an incremental software update. GRAPPLEX00:27, 28 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There are new operating systems released with considerable frequency too, so singling your favourite out to post is in no way revolutionary either. GRAPPLEX00:48, 28 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support Like it or not, this is in the news, I don't think any one is disputing that. There is a strong likelihood that upon hearing a news report readers will come to WP looking for information on it, having a link on the main page helps them get what they came form Mtking (edits) 22:57, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Very bad argument. If you want to know about Windows 8, you're likely to Google it, or search for it here in the search box. A general user is not going to look for a direct link from the Wikipedia home page, when they know it's only a search term away.doktorbwordsdeeds06:05, 28 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Ultimately, this is merely a case of "big company releases new product." Oppose for the same reasons we don't post every Apple, Samsung, IBM, Research in Motion, Nokia, etc. product. Resolute00:58, 28 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As Alex notes, that was an achievement, not a product release. When Microsoft releases something revolutionary, then we can talk. As it is, moving from Windows 6.1 to Windows 6.2 isn't terribly significant, even if they did add a new UI. Resolute18:16, 28 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. The reason why this release is different than the release of an Apple OS is that Microsoft operating systems are by far and historically the dominant operating system for home and enterprise use (except in technical fields, towards which Wikipedia might have a bias), the world over. This dominance is why they lost several antitrust lawsuits. As for the concern that we would be posting a "press release" for Microsoft: well, our posting of the Sakharov Prize is so much more of an egregious publicity act. (1) The European Union created it explicitly for publicity and activist purposes. (2) Since this prize is not as well known as say, the Nobel prizes, it draws attention to the European Union. (3) That prize doesn't document any real change in anything, as opposed to Windows 8, which documents the release of new major software with wide impact. Shrigley (talk) 16:42, 28 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Products get released every day. Some of these products are released by small companies with little market dominance, some of these are released by large companies with great market dominance. However, just because a company is large and has great market dominance doesn't mean we will feature the release of a new version of its product on our front page. We're not going to feature when Intel release a new chip, for example, or when Adobe release a new version of Flash player just because the vast majority of people use these products on their computers. Their release is just another product released by a mega corporation — or which there are many. --RA (talk) 17:19, 28 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. If this is posted, every product by a large company would need to be posted. I agree with the other oppose comments. 331dot (talk) 17:33, 28 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose just another Windows update. Why give undue prominence to an OS which most likely will not be adopted by a vast majority of the universe? Why give undue prominence to a commercial enterprise designed to make money out of its poor users? This piece of commerce is not even mildly interesting and barely scratched the surface of the IT world who know it'll be junk for a couple of years until all the major flaws are ironed out. Not news, just advertising. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:42, 28 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support: This is a significant event that affects/will affect a lot of people. Windows makes up a signficant portion of OS market share, and previous versions of Windows have been in ITN before. Those using the "advertising" argument forget that the term is quite subjective based on one's personal interpretation, and I could say that every year we're advertising boring film releases, sporting competitions and political uprisings that have nothing to do with me. And before someone says that I'm biased or whatever, I personally think Windows 8 is a load of crap and I hope it sinks like the Titanic, unless they do something about that horrible Metro UI. -- 李博杰 | —Talkcontribsemail17:59, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Comment I hereby create the "Thue prize", and award it to Nelson Mandela, Kofi Annan, and myself. Since the list of awardees includes such persons as Nelson Mandela and Kofi Annan, I assume you will support that for an ITN news item too? While I don't know whether the Sakharov Prize is notable enough to post ITN, trying to judge it by its awardees is not a valid argument IMO. Thue (talk) 14:02, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If someone will update the two articles on the recipients, I will post this. The main bolded article is updated, but as yet there's not even a single word in either article on the recipients articles. Fix that, I mean, give it a mention of some sort, and since this is ITN/R I'll post. --Jayron3217:28, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I've added some text to both articles, but haven't had a chance yet to proofread them as a whole, so won't !vote yet. Also, Sakharov Prize is ITN/R, so I've marked the nom as such. -- Khazar2 (talk) 23:35, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Syrian civil war: The Syrian government announces via its state media that it will suspend military operations from Friday to Monday, during this year's Muslim Eid al-Adha holiday, as part of a ceasefire proposal by U.N. special envoy Lakhdar Brahimi. (CNN)
Business and economics
Official GDP figures indicate the 2012 Summer Olympics helped the UK economy emerge from recession in the three months from July to September, with growth of 1.0%. (BBC)
A rape claim against a major Irish celebrity is investigated. The victim was made pregnant during her ordeal. (Irish Independent)
A jury fails to reach a verdict in the retrial of a policeman thought to have racially abused a suspect in the aftermath of the 2011 England riots. (BBC)
A New York Police Department officer, 6-year employee Gilberto Valle III along with an unnamed co-conspirator, is charged with allegedly conspiring to cross state lines and kidnap, torture, cook, and eat women (at least 100 names and pictures, some with physical descriptions, were found on his computer). He could get up to life in prison. (MSN)[permanent dead link]
France's interior minister Manuel Valls is embroiled in controversy amid reports he ordered police to clear his Paris neighbourhood of homeless so his wife could go about her shopping "in peace". (Ottawa Citizen)[permanent dead link]
Oppose I don't feel as though he was notable enough. From the article, it appears as though he wasn't a standout player, but I could be wrong on this. -- Anc516 (Talk ▪ Contribs) 00:55, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, since not notable. Also, if this news is posted, then whenever any player of any World Cup winner team dies it should be posted, too.Egeymi (talk) 06:24, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Legendary trainer in the sport of boxing. Steward was one of the most influential and most recognized trainers in boxing history. He, along with Freddie Roach, was one of the two top trainers in boxing today. Huge loss to boxing. -- Anc516 (Talk ▪ Contribs) 23:31, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose- I might support if his article is expanded, updated, and references are added. Unfortunately, his article consists of mostly a list of trainees and has just one reference announcing his death. Far from the best WP has to offer. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 23:36, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I realize that. I am working on it now. Check back later.<s\> Updated the article, and continuing to work on it. Should be more than sufficient enough to meet standards now. -- Anc516 (Talk ▪ Contribs) 23:37, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The "Alternative Blurb: Legendary boxing trainer Emanuel Steward, who trained 41 world champion fighters, including Wladimir Klitschko and Lennox Lewis, dies at 68" is misleading. Half asleep, I caught the end of it and momentarily thought Lennox Lewis was dead. --86.40.111.209 (talk) 01:45, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support I know nothing about boxing beyond the obvious, but I notice this death is being reported in a lot of places and being inducted to a Hall of Fame is a sign of notability doktorbwordsdeeds05:10, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Not even for Recent Deaths, where the explanatory blurb wouldn't appear. I'm just not persuaded that this person's achievements are sufficiently notable and attention-grabbing. AlexTiefling (talk) 07:00, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: I feel as if there are far too many recent deaths proposed, and ones more notable than this one are often put down. On its own merits, I can't see figure being that notable in the world of Boxing or his death impacting. --Klak of Klak (talk) 10:26, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'm floored as to the comments saying he was "not notable in his field". Either those who are commenting know nothing of boxing, or are not being convinced by the article (or aren't reading the sources). I will expand the article further later tonight (so please keep checking), but I would encourage people to read the sources in the meantime, which will make it very clear how notable he was. -- Anc516 (Talk ▪ Contribs) 13:09, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Siege of Bani Walid (2012): Militias loyal to the Libyan government capture the town of Bani Walid after days of battle, with locals claiming that 130 civilians have died under artillery shelling attacks from militia forces. (The Daily Beast)(Reuters)
After years of delays and disputes over cost and design, and amid references in newspapers to Germany's rejection of asylum applications by Roma from Kosovo and comments from the country's interior minister alleging "increasing abuse of asylum from countries in the Balkans", Angela Merkel unveils a memorial near the Reichstag to members of the Roma community killed during the Nazi Holocaust. (BBC)
Former Société Générale trader Jérôme Kerviel loses his appeal against a five-year prison sentence for forgery and breach of trust, handed down in 2010. (BBC)
Police in the Denver suburb of Westminster, Colorado arrest a 17-year-old resident who was allegedly involved in an attempted abduction in the killing of 10-year-old Jessica Ridgeway. (NBC)
Three people are shot dead, two are critically wounded, and a gunman is at large after shootings at two locations in the Los Angeles suburb of Downey, California: a business next to a Coca-Cola plant, and a residence. (NBC)
A young Pakistani man, whose father was killed by drones alongside 40 others in March 2011, seeks to block the sharing of British intelligence with the CIA. This represents the first serious legal challenge in the English courts to Britain's involvement in the drones campaign. (The Guardian)
Authorities in Mumbai investigate the sudden death last weekend of the renowned Bollywood film-maker Yash Chopra, who was earlier thought to have died from dengue fever. (BBC)
A fire at a hospital in the southern Taiwanese city of Tainan kills at least 12 people and injures up to 60 others. (BBC)
A "very loud explosion" and a "huge fire" at a military factory in Khartoum are being treated as suspicious. (BBC)
Following yesterday's conviction of scientists for their failure to predict the 2009 L'Aquila earthquake, Luciano Maiani—head of Italy's disaster body—resigns in protest at the harsh treatment of his colleagues. (BBC)(Al Jazeera)
Nominator's comments: Very well known in Poland and Holocaust community; source says "few photographic records of the death camp," and he had 50,000 photos. --Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 03:32, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I am not sure I see the need for hurry here, the ticker can add someone every other day and stay full. Brasse is far less of reader interest [8] than Sunil Gangopadhyay[9], whose nomination I might could support if it were made separately. μηδείς (talk) 03:45, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose No disrespect to the deceased or his relatives, but it was never suggested that the bar would drop this low in terms of the profile of the people we would post. Better to let the ticker occasionally drop off the page than to lower the expectations. If we have names that are not being reported in widespread news, and are recognisable only to a tiny proportion of readers, then an unadorned name is purely an opportunity to press a link the reader has no specific reason to press: we already have "Random page" for that. Kevin McE (talk) 06:12, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This is getting out of hand, and your in-your-face approach is off-putting. The death ticker is not a license to nominate every single person that dies. We don't need you browbeating people into supporting your nominations under the pretense that the RfC demanded it or that the section will otherwise go stale ("that is completely controlled by you"!). This is still the In the News section, not the Obituary section, and so (a) we don't need half the nominations here to be deaths and (b) we are not putting more than three deaths in the ticker; that will push it onto two lines for most people, giving it way more attention than it needs. Especially while there is still significant opposition to this experiment, can we take things down a notch? Your actions are realizing some of the concerns people have. -- tariqabjotu10:31, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The article is decent and points out Brasse's notability. But have we waived the "at least a paragraph of prose" rule for articles to be featured in the recent deaths line? Currently the update is very sparse. --RJFF (talk) 10:47, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The standards have to be fairly low? I certainly hope not. There is no need to promote just to keep the ticker moving. It is perfectly acceptable for the ticker to be removed occasionally when it is stale, and returned when it is needed again. And for the blurb section of the template, I think it would be sufficient to just put "recent death" or something - it makes it a little confusing to have four names listed there, especially when two of those names are due to be rotated off soon. --Bongwarrior (talk) 23:38, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Agree with all those who say this is an item for 'Recent Deaths'. For the death of an individual to be on ITN in addition to Recent Deaths, it should be of global note or significance - this clearly is not. --PopularMax (talk) 15:17, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Again, if you think this is good for recent death, vote recent death--otherwise you are simply opposing any listing.
Support I find myself agreeing with Lugnuts again, this is quite an unusual feeling. A landmark service, one of the first of its kind and a precursor to on-demand information through televisions and computers, Ceefax was the 'ghetto Internet' for millions of British and Irish viewers. It's passing marks the switch over from analogue to digital, and as such is a major development worthy of the front page doktorbwordsdeeds07:42, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Several opposers are being "unproductive" - according to the instructions on this page - by opposing something they see as relating only to a perceived small area. "Please do not... complain about an event only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.103.53 (talk) 13:48, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely no one enforces that "instruction"; you only need to look at the past few months of U.S.-centric nominations and their respective opposes for proof.--WaltCip (talk) 16:46, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
^^ If no one opposed certain items on the basis of it not having enough international significance, we would probably have too many stories to post...what I will not stand for, and nor should anyone else, is country-centric voting or "Revenge" voting.--Τασουλα (talk) 17:27, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What are you saying? That the nomination (which was made by separate editors in separate countries at the same time! - such was the belief that it should be nominated) is some sort of "revenge" for something else going on elsewhere? That's very hard to credit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.103.53 (talk) 18:45, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. It's a notable entity as the first such service of its kind, so if looked at as a "recent death" of sorts, Ceefax certainly passes the bar for notability in its field. GRAPPLEX
Oppose - This is merely the technical closure of a system with no users left. (Northern Ireland just went over to digital TV, so no-one is broadcasting or receiving the appropriate signals any more.) AlexTiefling (talk) 15:21, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. It's notable news not just because it was a British teletext system that has been shut down, but because it was the first teletext system that has now been shut down, regardless of country; "only national relevance" shouldn't really apply. As a comparison; if Ceefax was only the BBC version of a system that had been invented first in, say, Germany, then the shutting down of Ceefax wouldn't be notable whilst the shutting down of the original German system I would support. I would also draw comparisons to the shutting down of the French Minitel online system earlier this year, on ITN it was successfully nominated with no opposes, only to not be posted due to a lack of update in the article (which I hope you'll agree doesn't take away from the comparison).--23230talk15:28, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support I nominated this but then 5 minutes later another user renominated it and reworded the blurb and after I reverted then he rereverted to his blurb but added my IP as the nominator. Since it is the blurb of his nomination which appears above it should be his IP that appears as the nominator, which means I feel it is legitimate for me add my !vote to this discussion even though I originally nominated. Reason for support is that it is notable event of its kind. A nice different variety of new item for ITN. 89.241.235.110 (talk) 16:11, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The two were at the same time. There was an edit conflict. Your one got in first. And your blurb did not use the standard simple present tense as specified in the instructions so required a change. Someone else would have done it later anyway. And you can have all the credit for all that. --86.40.103.53 (talk) 16:57, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Ceefax has passed on! This teletext-service is no more! It has ceased to be! Ceefax has expired and gone to meet its maker! Ceefax is a stiff! Bereft of life, It rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed it to the perch it'd be pushing up the daisies! Its metabolic processes are now 'istory! Ceefax is off the twig! Ceefax has kicked the bucket, Ceefax has shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-TELETEXT-SERVICE!! 78.144.197.46 (talk) 17:54, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I'd better replace it, then. [pause for effect] Sorry squire, I've had a look 'round the back of the shop, and uh, we're right out of analogue. --86.40.103.53 (talk) 18:03, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support I wasn't quite sure what to say here. It does have some claim as to the genesis of interactive TV, albeit in a limited way, but I'm always reluctant to over-estimate the importance of British stories internationally. OTOH I see a parallel between this and the closing of Minitel. Since looking on looking it up I gave that a weak support I'll do the same here too. Crispmuncher (talk) 19:32, 24 October 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Weak Oppose Bordering on an equivocal meh. This story has less than a tenth the interest of Lance Armstrong, is limited to one country in impact, and hardly outweighs the other current posts. I am not opposed to its listing if it doesn't push some other story off ITN. μηδείς (talk) 20:02, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'll bet that every person on this planet who is not institutionalized knows what WWII and TV are, but this Ceefax thing is not known to even a majority of people in tiny Britain. Speciate (talk) 20:12, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Low level technology superceded, exactly the same service still available on BBC red button but without the same name. Only ever a large part of life to a very small group of rather nerdy people. A little piece of slightly nostalgic filler for the end of a news bulletin, a mere side effect of the completion of roll-out of TV digitisation. Zero effect on general pattern of life, even within very local area of "impact". Kevin McE (talk) 06:03, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support I was disappointed that the closure of Minitel (which I nominated) didn't get on. Ceefax is equally a significant technological project. --RA (talk) 23:11, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Not very notable or of great impact even in the UK, and this type of changeover has happened already in other countries so it's not even a first. --PopularMax (talk) 15:05, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: We need to have fairly low criteria on deaths if we want to keep the ticker moving, and I think these people meet that threshold. --Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 20:38, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support adding both. The original nomination said "McGovern + Chopra + two recent deaths" and the two weren't posted so there is still space for two others. Russell Means, nominated separately below, appears to already have overwhelming consensus for some sort of inclusion on the Main Page. As for Sunil Gangopadhyay, well he seems a top notch writer of international renown. Not every Bengali writer gets his own BBC obit. President Mukherjee has called him "one of the greatest Bengali intellectuals." And it has also been said that "It will be extremely difficult to fill the vacuum in Bengali literature after his death as Sunil had heralded a new style in Bengali literature." I think that sums it up nicely. --86.40.108.76 (talk) 00:15, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Object to nominating two candidates at once. Per the RfC regular nom procedure was to be followed. Noms like this are in effect packaging support or oppose votes or inviting a huge amount of confusion. This should be separated--and Means has already been nominated, there is no problem voting "recent death" under his nom. μηδείς (talk) 00:31, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment- It looks like I have been forced to make this point again: the nomination is not a package. You can support one and oppose one. As a side note, this eliminates the only objection to posting either death thus far. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 00:56, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Close I call on an admin to shut down this "nomination" immediately. There was strong opposition to, and absolutely no support in the RfC for changing the regular one-at-time nomination process for deaths. There is no existential emergency to wikipedia that justifies multiple combined nominations, overlapping nominations, and nominations that are expanded to cover new candidates by random passers-by! Deliberation is called for, not anarchy. If you want to vote for Russell Means, please do so--there is already a full majority in favor of a ticker listing. If you want to nominate others then please do so, separately, and let them be voted upon according to their own separate merits. Note also that the two "supports" we have for this "nomination" are by the same editor. Let us please stick to the results of the RfC both in implementing the ticker and in sticking to established procedure and respect for consensus. μηδείς (talk) 02:55, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nonsense. First of all, the "random passers-by" are the people who decide consensus - Wikipedia could not function without these "random passers-by" of yours. Second of all, admins do not have some sort of special powers to shut down friendly conversations that other non-admin editors do not have. Third of all, Wikipedia is not censored - why do you want to shut down valid interactions between users which are doing no harm and are used to help determine consensus? Fourth of all, the two supports are for three different things and that is pretty obvious. Fifth of all, this is not a vote. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.103.53 (talk) 07:52, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Because it is not appropriate to squeeze an arbitrary selection of people together for a single nomination, disallowing full discussion about each on their own merit. doktorbwordsdeeds07:44, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sock Puppet Do I need to file a formal sock puppet accusation against IP 86 40 XXX XXX? Why are we allowing multiple votes by the same abusive user? Other than presumed support by the nom, all three support votes are by the sam IP voter. Comment by an admin would be welcome, since I don't want to waste my time, but I would like to get this user down to one vote per thread at most, if not blocking of the IP for bad faith. μηδείς (talk) 21:27, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't you "oh gawd" me! All three support votes on this abomination are by the same IP user, and although I have called for the thread to be shut down, no "admin" has done so. Talk to the admin. μηδείς (talk) 21:40, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oh for God's sake. This is ridiculous. It's obvious the supports are for separate nominations in the same thread and there is no attempt to hide this. What do people expect if there are multiple nominations? Under "McGovern + Chopra + two recent deaths" there are four opposes by the same user. So I followed that example and did nothing to hide it. But it's blame-the-IP time over here then, is it? If you disagree with them that badly just strike them out. In fact I'll do it myself to save everyone the bother. Note: I did try but was edit conflicted and generally can't be bothered trying anymore, such is the prevalence of bad faith assumptions around here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.103.53 (talk) 22:12, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Sorry, I just don't see the significance, nor major media coverage. Besides, you didn't even bother to point out that he's the ruler of Qatar. Modest Geniustalk18:37, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Why should it have to be pointed out every single time that he's the ruler of Qatar any more than David Cameron is the UK Prime Minister or Barack Obama the American President or Angela Merkel the German Chancellor? Is that really a valid reason to oppose something? Major media coverage from across the world calls it "landmark" and "historic". It's completely unknown for a foreign ruler to visit there. [10][11][12][13][14][15] There have been deaths. [16] And it is not a meeting. --86.40.108.76 (talk) 00:08, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's what these things are though. What else can anyone expect but for them to be "diplomatically interesting"? Where is the rule saying "diplomatically interesting" things are banned from ITN and who decides whether something is "diplomatically interesting"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.103.53 (talk) 07:55, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Typically there has to be an article on it at the very least, and then it has to be super duper extraordinary. Like Queen Elizabeth II's visit to the Republic of Ireland landed on the front page, but a similar event regarding the IRA or something like that (some party head meeting with QEII, perhaps? It's too far back to remember) was !voted down. hbdragon88 (talk) 00:42, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think you meant when the Queen met with Martin McGuinness, which had nothing to do with the IRA...because McGuinness is no longer a part of the IRA, it was to do with the Queen meeting the leader of the main Irish Republican party in Northern Ireland. Sadly, because the whole thing was much more low-key it didn't get the attention/support on ITN/C. I supported that story's nom, so I can hardly oppose this. But I don't know enough about it. And personally, because I won't/shouldn't support anything when it comes to Israel/Palestine for personal reasons. --Τασουλα (talk) 00:51, 25 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
References
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