Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga/Gundam

Cosmic Era Battleships or Warships and Spacecraft...

• Err.... Just notice the category is named Cosmic Era Battleships. Should we rename the category same as article Warships and spacecraft of the Cosmic Era? Previously the article was named Battleships of Cosmic Era, too. It is renamed because it includes civillian vessel such as Silverwind and the ships is not battleship but warship. Draconins 09:46, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Your suggestion sounds fine to me. --The Trashman 04:59, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Suppose in-jokes

Since this seems to be the hub for CE entries, I suppose it's best to put this here. Does every mention of the Japanese voice actors having worked togethor prior qualify as an 'in-joke'? I wouldn't doubt some of the cases are correct but it's not exactly suprising big name voice actors would work togethor so I think these trivia notes should be evaluated and removed if they seem to be reaching--HellCat86 16:24, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you, however I lack of competence to check this trivia notes. My sources usually don't state anything to do with the 'in-joke', however I think it is usual for famous seiyuu commonly working together. In reality, they also develop friendships among them. Draconins 18:32, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Ethnic Origin

Ethnic origin is listed for many Cosmic Era characters on individual pages. Aisha - possibly Japanese or Caucasian, Flay Allster - American, Shinn Asuka - Japanese, Cagalli Yula Athha - Japanese, Uzumi Nara Athha - Japanese, Clotho Buer - South African, Jean Carry - American, Lacus Clyne - Scandinavian, Siegel Clyne - Scandinavian, Rau Le Creuset - French-Canadian, Martin DaCosta - Israeli, Dearka Elsman - Egyptian, Al Da Flaga - Canadian, Mu La Flaga - French-Canadian, George Glenn - American, Edward Harrelson - American, Tolle Koenig - German, Stellar Loussier - possibly French, Auel Neider - possibly German, Canard Pars - Canadian, Sato - Japanese, Yuna Roma Seiran - Canadian, Andrew Waltfeld - Israeli, Heine Westenfluss - German, Kira Yamato - Japanese, Athrun Zala - German or Central European, Patrick Zala - German or Central European.

The only ones of these that seem to be confirmed on the official Gundam Seed web page are the Clynes. Everything else appears to be fan guesses, some more credible than others.

They also aren't consistant.

Cagalli and Kira are twins and listed as Japanese, yet their possible brother Canard Pars is listed as Canadian ethnic origin.

Mu La Flaga's ethnic origin doesn't exactly match his own father's. Then again, the ethnic origins for neither of Al La Flaga's clones exactly match his, either.

If all these are is guesses, I think they should be deleted.

Edward321 02:29, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

In the same link that cites the origin of Kira's name, Fukuda also comments that the character of Kira was designed to be "very Japanese", apparently right down to the name. Therefore, Cagalli would be of Japanese descent as well. While I can't say for sure whether both Ulen and Via Hibiki were both Japanese, the name "Hibiki" is a Japanese surname and since in most marriage cirlces the husband's surname becomes the wife's (with rare exceptions in Japanese culture, notably Gendo "Ikari" of Evangelion fame), it stands to reason that Ulen is Japanese as well. As for Attha, it would stand to reason that Cagalli would only believe him to be her biological dad if he was of a similar ethnic background.

Which could mean Uzumi is a large variety of things besides Japanese. For that matter, Ulen and Via are not Japanese names, which makes it unlikely Kira and Cagalli are of fully Japanese ancestry. Edward321 00:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Full, probably not, but they are still likely of Japanese ancestry. 68.119.199.84 03:21, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

While some of these are theories, they are very educated ones apparently based on the name, mannerisms, and apperance of the character. George Glenn's background, name, and ideals are all very typical of an American-style astronaut in the vein of John Glenn, Neil Armstrong, and Jim Lovell.

It doesn't matter if the theory is educated, speculation does not belong in an encyclopedia. And most of these theories are not educated. Edward321 00:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Shinn Askua, you seriously cannot get anymore Japanese than with his name and appearance.

What's distinctively Japanese about his appearance? Edward321 00:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps I exaggerated, but the dark hair and slightly short frame suggest an asian. Again, one cannot argue the given and surnam of not only Shinn but his sister as well.68.119.199.84 03:12, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Andrew Waltfeld very much fills a popular Israeli person archetype known as "Sabra". People of these type are apparently comparable to cacti- rough-looking on the outside but holding something sweet within. Waltfeld has very dark skin, cactus-shaped hair, an overly tough-guy apperance, and a pleasant, casual demeanor. 68.119.199.84 19:17, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_%28person%29 Nothing there about skin color or hair style, nor does Andrew have cactus-shaped hair. For that matter, his skin is no darker than Dearka, Yolant, Martin, or Ledonir. In the end, this is unsourced speculation and does not belong on Wikipedia. Edward321 00:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I am about 90% sure that there are no official setting on these. Not even in the Official character file mention anything about their ethnic origin, especially the genetic dividen part of that file listed coodinator or natural only. MythSearcher^talk 02:28, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I am agree with MythSearcher. I also never found these on the official sources and reliable secondary sources. Draconins 03:03, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Project Directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. These WikiProjects are of vital importance in helping wikipedia achieve its goal of becoming truly encyclopedic. Please review the following pages:

• User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory,
• User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory 2,
• User:Badbilltucker/Philosophy and religion Directory,
• User:Badbilltucker/Sports Directory,
• User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory,
• User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory/United States, (note: This page will be retitled to more accurately reflect its contents)
• User:Badbilltucker/History and society directory, and
• User:Badbilltucker/Science directory

and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 22:21, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if you tried to update it before, and the corrections were gone. I have now moved the new draft in the old directory pages, so the links should work better. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused you. B2T2 14:07, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Ehh...could someone here take a look?

I have quite debate at Talk:GAT-X105 Strike Gundam and it seem go nowhere. Is there anybody care to take care of it? Even if someone can find a reliable source that clearly state Kira change Rouge OS and prove I'm wrong is better than this pointless speculation. L-Zwei 06:29, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Another Article for Delete occur...

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/TS-MA2 Moebius Only I vote to keep at moment. And even if it's just about Moebius, not the falshier Gundam, I think you all should consider dissolve this WikiProject. L-Zwei 15:17, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

It's a shame. Whilst I can partly see their point, entries for fictional things are constantly persecuted here. I don't see why they're calling it fancruft, it's hardly that bad. From what I've read, Wikipedia's initial goal seemed more loose and fun then certain editors want us to believe. It's not like the Gundam entries are leaving no space for articles on famous scientists, deadly diseases, etc. To me, it stinks of people who want write a personalised encyclopedia which would never get published so instead they bully people here.--HellCat86 03:06, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Another AfD that should be noted here

[[1]] Heated debate on that page which strives to delete all the Cosmic Era mobile suit articles. Kyaa the Catlord 12:35, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Name change

So.. yeah, I changed the name of the project to WikiProject Gundam, as to include all things Gundam and not just Seed. Might help the project out in becoming active. -- Ned Scott 07:02, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Merging of CE mobile weapons

Due to the recent discussion about deleting all CE mobile weapons I think that it would be better to merge all the articles. The User Kira Matthews came up with this idea:

Earth Alliance

• G-Weapons (Duel, Buster, Strike [including Strike Rouge], Blitz, Aegis)
  • "Dagger" units (Strike Dagger, 105 Dagger, Dagger L, Windam, and the more extraneous information in the Duel, Buster, and Blitz articles)
  • Stargazer G-Weapon derivatives (Blu Duel, Verde Buster, and Strike Noir)
• Mobile Armors (Moebius/Moebius Zero, Exass, Euclid, Pergrande, Zamza-Zah, Gells-Ghe)
• Second-generation EA Gundams (Calamity, Forbidden, Raider, and derivatives)
• Miscellaneous (Destroy and Hyperion)

ZAFT

• GINN, CGUE, and GuAIZ series
  • GINN derivatives (BABI, DINN, ZuOOT, BuCUE, LaGOWE, GOOhN, ZnO, ASH)
  • CGUE and GuAIZ derivatives (DEEP Arms and Experimental Firearms Type)
• First-generation ZAFT Gundams (Dreadnought, Justice, Freedom, Regenerate, Testament, and Providence)
• Second-generation ZAFT Gundams (Chaos, Abyss, Gaia, Saviour, Impulse, Destiny, Legend, and related units)
• ZAKU, GOUF, and DOM series [even though the DOM Trooper technically belongs to Terminal]

ORB Union/Clyne Faction/Terminal

• Astray series suits (Red Frame, Blue Frame, Gold Frame, production-model Astray, and related units)
• Second-generation ORB Union mobile suits (Murasame and Akatsuki)
• Terminal-produced Gundams (Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice)

Other

• Anything and everything that doesn't fit into the aforementioned categories (Astray Out Frame, Stargazer, et cetera [can't be bothered to go into specifics])

Perhaps we should merge until its too late and we loose all of this articles. Anyone agree with me? Diabound00 09:22, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

yea, merge it for the time being... then, we expand the articles, RE-WRITE THEM COMPLETELY. then try to split it again. also is their anyway where we can sort of close that articles to the public, and only allow members of WP:CE edit it. maybe copy it to an undisclosed location and work on it in quiet their? what do you thing? - Plau 09:43, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree that some may be joined, but be warned that explosion can occur (especially images which are possible making some page inaccessible to some user due timout caused by lots of image). I prefer that some article kept to be independent. Many article should be independent. My idea :

Keep pages:

• Duel, Buster, Strike, Blitz, Aegis : They are quite different MS and each has variants
• Strike Dagger, 105 Dagger, Dagger L : They are different MS
• Windam: It is quite different MS with dagger series
• Moebius/Moebius Zero, Exass : I don't have any source why Exass descended from Moebius
• Euclid, Pergrande, Zamza-Zah, Gells-Ghe: They are distinct MA, though its is possible to group them into MA's section, I still insist that Moebius/Moebius Zero must be kept on different page because it is important MA
• Calamity, Forbidden, Raider: They are quite different MS and each has variants
• GINN, CGUE, and GuAIZ: They are quite different MS and each has variants
• BABI, DINN, ZuOOT, BuCUE, LaGOWE, GOOhN, ZnO, ASH : I never found that they are derived from GINN
• Dreadnought, Justice, Freedom, Regenerate, Testament, and Providence: They are quite different.
• Chaos, Abyss, Gaia, Saviour, Impulse, Destiny, Legend: They are quite different.
• ZAKU, GOUF: They are quite different
• DOM: I don't see that ZAKU is quite similar as DOM. It is like why keeping both F35 Lightning II and X32.
• Astray
• Murasame
• Akastuki
• Strike Freedom and Infinite Justice: They are quite distinct to their predecessors. It is like why we keeping both F-15 and F-15E Strike Eagle, not to mention F-18 and F-18E/F Super Hornet.
• StarGazer

Join:

• Strike rouge, Strike Noir into Strike
• Blu Duel into Duel
• Verde Buster into Buster
• BuCUE, LaGOWE into BuCUE : Only if someone found that LaGOWE are derived from LaGowe
• CGUE derivatives or prototype into CGUE
• GuAIZ derivatives or prototype into GuAIZ
• All derivatives/prototype of Chaos, Abyss, Impulse, Saviour, ZAKU, GOUF into their respective pages
• All derivatives of Astray into Astray (including astray out frame and Raysta )

It is only suggestion though. I suggest model development tree rather than faction tree since many MA/MS quickly stolen by other faction. It would be keep much of current structure. CMIIW Draconins 12:02, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

• Well, I just wish we shouldn't mind much on long lenght article, at least not early of improving movement.

First the three main articles shall be EA's mech, ZAFT's mech and Misc mech, which also include Orb's mech (since it most likely that Astray series would got their seperate article, leaving only Akatsuki, Mistral and Murasame).

For EA.

• • I think that all GAT-X may deserve one seperate article, all of them (including Blu Duel and Verde Buster)except Strike shall be there. Strike's seperate article (for being hero mech) shall include Rouge and Noir as well.
  • Dagger series may deserve one seperate article, but we need new introduction paragraph.
  • This leave Hyperion, Windam, Destroy and all MA in main EA's mech page. The MAs may worth one seperate article, but that would leave main article with too few entries. We may consider to include Dagger here and have seperate article for MA instead.

for ZAFT

• • GINN and ZAKU may worth seperate article for their large number of variant.
  • Definity, Justice and Freedom deserve their own article, but I think merge with SF and IJ shall be done (it happen in Japaneese article).
  • GuAIZ series may worth one seperate article, if we include Dreadnaught, Providence (they're very close to GuAIZ anyway) and Legend.
  • Testament shall be merge with Astray Outframe in one seperate article (Outframe is "hero mech" anyway).
  • Second Stage Gundam shall be in single article, except Impulse. Impulse's article may include Destiny as well.
  • As result, main article should have CGUE series, DINN series, BaCUE series (including LAGOWE), ZuOOT series, amphibious MS series, Regenerate and BABI.

For Misc (including Orb, DSSD, Martian and other minor faction)

• • Astray series (include Raysta) would get into single article and leave the rest (Akatsuki, Murasame, Stargazer and Guardshell) in main article.

I known that that would leave use with very small number of article, but it should be make them less-likely to be Deletionist's target until we can improve several aspect of article.

Since it clear to get very long articles after the reform, I think we may consider redesign template for MS spec. MAHQ's template are nice, but a little too long. All of Unknown aspect shall be remove from specify mech's spec (this is, if no heigh listing, don't put it). Powersource shall be replace by Generator Output, in case that it was list (like Freedom). Minor feature like sensor shall be remove. And if possible, use infobox to display spec instead of make it into section shall be help. L-Zwei 17:24, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Sensor? I don't think we should delete them. Rather we put that into general term like: Electronic, Auxiliary Equipment. In aviation term, such sensor called Avionics. Generator output? Why not power plant? It is common term for formal specification. Anyway, I still prefer generation (series) tree. Lengthy article will lead another problem... However, I like MAHQ template... and Burke's. Err...Dreadnought and Providence close to GuAIZ? Err, I never seen such statement or source, even in my mind, any explanation? Providence is quite close to Legend, however not to GuAIZ... (^^) Any other comment.... Well... well.... we may need some structure planning page....Draconins 14:57, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

In Dreadnaught, it's quite simple. In basic configuaration, all it has are vulcan (somewhat forgetable :p ), beam rifle, beam reamer and composite shield. Now the beam reamer is wireless version of GuAIZ's external arrestor and composite shield is similar to GuAIZ's shield, just swap beam claws to beam saber. Now look at Providence by remove DRAGOON pod all left are vulcan (again, somewhat forgetable :p ), beam rifle and composite shield, which is similar to Dreadnaught except it alsocan use as beam guns. L-Zwei 05:34, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Well AfD settled, and it seems that much work to do... I am still working on vessels, so I won't be much help until much later... However, I will help as much as I can. Well, now, how we group them?Draconins 15:26, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

• This is just my opinion, but I think we should re-merge Cosmic Era Mobile Units, as well as redirect After Colony Mobile Units, After War Mobile Units and Universal Century Mobile Units, back to List of Mobile Weapons. I just think that the reformed CE articles would be apply to other articles as well. These timeline-specify articles list MS/MA by faction and we most likely have seperate articles by faction per above. The List of Mobile Weapons need some work, I think we should remove duplicate entry (those MSV's MS shall not list again in Zeta, for example). L-Zwei 05:34, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Would it not be better to merge all the G-weapons into one article since they are all, technically, variations of the same prototype? Especially in light that the Duel and Buster pages were deleted. Kyaa the Catlord 10:51, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Well see this japanese official site for Gundam Seed [2]. I rather like this one especially for handling mobile suits operated or manufactured by several faction or quickly taken over. This is primary concern that I recommend series evolution. Another advantages, it would not taken too much kilobytes.... For you know, currently Minor Warships and Spacecrafts of Cosmic Era (Gundam) has 39 Kb, while it is still not finished. Draconins 11:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I've never understood the kb warnings really. :P I think that who "owns" them isn't important. That should be explained in text rather than by the group they're merged into, at least for the mobile suits. The most solid tie they have is manufacturer, ownership is based weakly on possession. :) Kyaa the Catlord 11:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Rather than restoring all the pages included in this deletion, we should focus on the ones that are necessary. In my opinion, these are:

GAT-103X Buster

ZGMF-1001 ZAKU Phantom

ZGMF-2000 GOUF Ignited

ZGMF-X88S Gaia

GAT-X131 Calamity, GAT-X133 Sword Calamity and GAT-X370 Raider merged

GAT-X207 Blitz

GAT-X252 Forbidden and GAT-X255 Forbidden Blue merged

GAT-X303 Aegis

GFAS-X1 Destroy

All of the Dagger units should either be merged into a "production units of the Cosmic Era" article.

All of the Mobile Armors should be merged into a mobile armor of the Cosmic Era article, and split afterwards if the size gets too large.

ZGMF-X42S Destiny (Isn't this the primary MS for GSD?)

ZGMF-X666S Legend (Is this the "sister" unit to Destiny? If so, they should merge.)

All of the prototypes should be merged, with the spectacular ones (especially the ones pilotted by Shinn, Athrun or other lead characters) split off sometime in the future. Thoughts? Kyaa the Catlord 20:42, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, can you put your planned page name? From your comment seems you proposed:

• • Mobile Suit of Cosmic Era (Gundam)
    • Prototypes Mobile Suits of Gundam SEED (Gundam)
      • G Projects Mobile Suits of Gundam SEED (Gundam)
    • Prototype Mobile Suits of Gundam SEED Destiny (Gundam)
    • Mass Production Mobile Suits of Gundam SEED Destiny (Gundam)
  • Mobile Armor of Cosmic Era (Gundam)

Is that correct? Well, I still prefer [3]. , how about the others? 203.128.65.147 02:01, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Merging of Warship and Spacecraft

Current Progress:
Merged:

• Minor Warships and Spacecrafts of Cosmic Era (Gundam)
  • Arkansas
  • Des Moines
  • Fraser
  • Kuraokami
  • Petrie
  • Aegis class cruiser
  • Compton class land battleship
  • Hannibal-class land battleship
  • Gondwana
  • Tarawa class carrier / Spengler
  • Lesseps class land battleship
  • Vosgulov class submarine (Out-universe Rewritten) Update!

• Minor Spacecrafts of Cosmic Era (Gundam)
  • Agamemnon
  • Drake
  • Nelson
  • Girty Lue
  • Laurasia (Out-universe Rewritten)
  • Nazca (Out-universe Rewritten)
  • Izumo

To Do:

• Takemikazuchi

• Home/Rehome
• Acidalium

Help needed:

• Check the available link
• Check the grammar (there should be errors while I had tried to minimize it)
• Redirect if needed

I decide to start merging some vessels because, no major changes happened before and since I edited some vessels of cosmic era. See Minor Warships and Spacecrafts of Cosmic Era (Gundam). Though, I am against merging Lesseps, Takemikazuchi, Vosgulov and Tarawa into them since IMHO, it is important enough. For others, just wait... I got my hand full... currently. For all keepers, please pray that my boss does not scold me for this... (just joking... -_- ). Any suggestions are welcome. I really need your comment on Takemikazuchi and Tarawa matter. I also propose Minor Vehicle of Cosmic Era (Gundam) to be realized, IMHO, need to be separated between space, air, land unit. Draconins 14:29, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I will add other minor vessels (which are not AfD-ed) soon. Draconins 11:41, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Tsiolkovsky and Silverwind added. Well I must ask you all: I believe that Home and ReHome should not belong here, even, if merged, merged them in separate Home/ReHome article. Both vessels are quite important in Astray Manga. Acidalium, is also quite important in later part of Stargazer, so we may need separate article for this, too. Draconins 12:46, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Izumo and Nazca also quite important, why not let it have separate article? Especially Izumo...Draconins 14:38, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, I am kinda against any mecha or warship without a Model to have its own page. The reasoning behind this is simple, models are the best verifiable source and outside impact to anyone who do not know or have interest in the series at all, and yes, I am refering to deletionists. Archangel and Minerva both are released as EX model, which is an even better source since that series is not dedicated to Gundam. If the mecha or warship did not appear in anything else like Super Robot Wars, I'd say do not let it have its own page. Additional lists are desirable, since Astray is definitely considered to be another series and should recieve another page for its warship and mecha alike. That is one of the main reason I have suggested the second merge option in that discussion, it is less likely that deletionist will find any policy against a list for a series. MythSearcher^talk 16:39, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, because I find no other comment, seems like those four will be merged... Has to wait for a while though. Any other comment (regarding everything)? I also have checked Tarawa article, it is badly damaged and I must quite rewording and recreate much of its part. Draconins 14:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, Tarawa revised and merged. Still lots of works though, I expect to complete them in a week. Since, the article has become 44 Kb, I consider to split them on Water, Land, and Space based basis. How about it? Draconins 14:54, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Add references, and merged Laurasia which seems to be forgotten. Well, we now have ,wow, 51 kb. Now I that nobody object, I would decide to split them into Water, Land, and Space based basis. The page would be become list of those split articles. Please wait fow a while... Draconins 12:44, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, separate article had been born for spacecraft. Check Minor Spacecrafts of Cosmic Era (Gundam). Draconins 10:53, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Just added Izumo. Now, 42 Kb already o_o. If I have rewritten the Izumo article, seems like I should separate this article. For some days, I can't update because my work. if you want to help, please try to improve the merged article or merge the unmerged article. I will try to update again, if I can "steal" some time. Draconins 12:58, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I managed to steal some time, so I add the Lesseps. Please be patient for more update from me. Draconins 04:39, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Managed to steal some time again, so I add and rewritten Vosgulov. As usual, be patient for more update from me. ^^ Draconins 12:07, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Expanding project to what its name says

Now, if nobody opposes, I will expand this to cover UC related materials. Later if possible, maybe other series should be included too. MythSearcher^talk 12:50, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

An excellent idea. Originally this project was just about SEED related stuff, but there's definitely room to discuss all things Gundam here. -- Ned Scott 04:25, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I am about to request non-ce materials. I just notice the name have changed, yesterday... How stupid I am? A lot work to do... Draconins 10:04, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

About referencing

I have asked MAHQ about related content, and they have answered that they don't hold any copyrights. They only give credit on submission not to the content itself. They said, if you want to use the content, we actually do not need any permission from MAHQ, rather we should use them on Fair-use criterion. I also have asked if we may link pages inside MAHQ, and they answered yes.

Currently, I have requested formal permission for using Gundam-images from Sunrise. I hope they will give the formal permission. I am still wait for this. Draconins 12:01, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh, yes I forgot to state that I have requested such permission on Bandai America. They answer that I should asked Sunrise instead. Hence, I wait for Sunrise statement. Draconins 12:06, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Ah also, that means MAHQ copyvio problem allegations was clarified and cleared. Draconins 12:32, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

About replace "spec" section with infobox

Well, I have no knowledge on creating infobox at all. So I pick one use in various Arm Slave article and modify it. Here is spec infobox for RX-78-1, for example.

Prototype Gundam
Designation	RX-78-1
Unit type	Prototype general purpose Mobile Suit
Manufacturer	Earth Federation
Head height	18m
Base weight	59t
Powerplant	Minovsky type ultracompact fusion reactor 1380 kW
Armor	Luna Titanium Alloy
Fixed Armaments	60mm Vulcan Gatling Guns x 2 beam saber x 2
Optional weapons	beam rifle

As I said, I have no knowledge on it at all. Can anybody improve it? The problem I found is, while it look great on imageless article, aritcle seem to mess up when put the infobox together with image. I think it would work better than creat seperate spec section in article. L-Zwei 14:30, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Well actually, I change all minor vessel with list style since in combined article it would be messed. If it is for specific article for particular ship, like archangel, I gladly recommend infoboxes. Draconins 14:44, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Strike Freedom Gundam
ZGMF-X20A Strike Freedom
ZGMF-X20A Strike Freedom
Fast Facts
Model Number	ZGMF-X20A
Ship Type	Prototype Assault Mobile Suit
Launched	C.E. 74
Manufacturer	Clyne Faction
Operator	Three Ships Alliance, Orb Union
Known Pilot	Kira Yamato
General Characteristics
Head Height	18.88 meters
Weight	80.09 metric tons
Powerplant	Ultracompact Hyper-Deuterion Nuclear Fission Reactor
Accommodation	Pilot only, in standard cockpit in torso
Armor:	Phase Shift Armor
Armaments
MMI-GAU27D 31 mm CIWS x2 , fire-linked, head-mounted MGX-2235 "Callidus" multi-phase beam cannon x1, torso-mounted MA-M02G "Super Lacerta" beam saber x2, stored on hips, hand-carried in use MMI-M15E "Xiphias 3" railgun x2 , folded underneath hips, spread out in use MA-M21KF combinable high-energy beam rifle x2, stored on hips, hand-carried in use MX2200 beam shield generator x2
Remote Armaments
EQFU-3X Super DRAGOON mobile weapon wings x8 (Each carry MA-80V beam assault cannon x1)
Special Equipments and Features
HiMAT (High Mobility Aerial Tactics) Neutron Jammer Canceller Hardpoint for docking with METEOR Phase Shift Armor Multi-lock Weapon System
Optional Equipments
METEOR (Mobile suit Embedded Tactical EnfORcer) mobile weapons platform

How about infobox I made on this right for ZGMF-X20A Strike Freedom Gundam? It use wiki syntax rather usual html syntax. I think this is the best for covering various popular weapons on Gundam Universe. If there is no entry on some part, just remove them. Funnel, and Bits are on Remote Weapons. Core fighter is on Special Equipments and Features. G-Defensor, Full Armor, G-Falcon, and Dendrobium Orchis will be on Optional Special Equipments. It is large, and long.... that why I don't recommend this on compilation-type article. Well, I am sorry if CE-hater is here.... Draconins 19:52, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

That infobox looks good to me. We should probably compare it to similar real world mecha, like the f-15 or whatever. :P Kyaa the Catlord 20:12, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps try to make the box a little broader. Also there is the problem with articles that cover several suits who all have their own specs. How do we solve this problem? The infobox would become incredible long. Diabound00 13:22, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Broader? Ok set from 200 to 300. Well, as I have said, I only recommend infobox for article dealing single mecha, or slight variants. I had changed all minor vessel with list style since in combined article it would be messed.Draconins 09:03, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

• • We truely need to clean-up spec part, quickly. As state in this thread at MAHQ forum, while they don't own specs, the format is original as well as partial of specs like powerplant type or weapon placement. Guess we need to use same template of Japaneese article to avoid problem now. L-Zwei 05:21, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Alright, I just use infobox on RX-78-2 in RX-78 Gundam article, based on Draconins's infobox. Few of MAHQ format are edited-out, the infobox is pretty much "lite" specs which I adapt from Japaneese article. Please tell me if you've anything to complain. Now, I look more closely at Japaneese article and realised they don't give info box to every MS/variants. So I'm thinking of simply remove specs for "minor" (from non-fan POV) MS. The rest have main hero mech or main antagonist mech status to be notable. To be specify, I plan to give Alex (main mech of 0080), Pixie (main mech of Cross Dimension 0079), Mudrock (main antagonist of Zeonic Front) and may be G04 & G05 (main mech of From Place Beyond the Blaze manga). The rest will got spec remove (with links to MAHQ's entries in external links section for those who're curious). But I don't paln to do that until tonight. L-Zwei 06:47, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
      • Hmm, well I have seen the infobox, it seems too much "lite" for me. I prefer complete infobox, lets hear for other people comment for now. Furthermore, for RX-78, I expect picture of core fighter and blocks. I have fixed minor typo there yype-> type, adding nicer heading, and move main pilot to upper part. For specs, I think it is the best to left them intact with the articles, even better if design explanation is given. IMHO, the main MS-es should be split in separate article, especially the very notable ones (i.e. RX-78-2), added with model (and picture too (especially PG/MG)) or impacted production. But for now it may be the best to left it there. I am rather traumatized by deletionists action around wikipedia nowadays. Draconins 12:27, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
      • Thank for replied and improvement. ^_^ I actually think about use infobox in other mecha article as well (like various Banpresto Originals). Now I decide to keep spec for those won't get infobox, though seperate spec section shall be merge with main part of article (like in RX-78 article). I usually find having closely-relate mech gather in single article is more fun to read, but that's just opinion. L-Zwei 04:48, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

About MG, PG, EX series

EX Models for supporting vehicle:

• UC
  • Dodaitwo [4]
  • Dopp [5], Garma Version: [6]
  • Gundam Trailer Truck [7]
  • Gunperry [8]
  • Magella tank [9]
  • Samson Trailer [10]

• CE
  • Exass [11]
  • Skygrasper and Mobius Zero [12]

Ex Models for vessels:

• UC
  • Albion [13]
  • Argama [14]
  • La Via En Rose [15]
  • Magellan and Salamis [16]
  • Musai Cruiser [17], collection: [18], [19]
  • White base [20]
• CE
  • Archangel [21], Coated: [22]
  • Eternal [23], Coated: [24]
  • Minerva [25]

Well I add this for helping improving the article. Please update if you know something. Maybe someone need to move this section after it become large. So far I only add EX modelDraconins 20:33, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I'd say the Official site is a better source :)

List of most plamo could be found here, too.

MythSearcher^talk 13:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

And I though the last AfD nom was bad...

[26] The same thing also happen on RX-78 Gundam. Instead of proper AfD nom, the guy put simple deletion template without AfD nom (is that proper way to get article delete? Though I can see it would do harm if template is there too long). I remove it (hey, it's ZZ and RX-78!), but wonder if we can do anything as I don't think the guy will stop now. L-Zwei 04:31, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I think we'd just be better moving to a Gundam centric Wiki at this point. I'd love to just work on Gundam entries here but clearly certain nice people aren't content to do that and just want to edit this place in line with their own preferences.--HellCat86 04:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I have to agree with you. I'm beginning to find the atmopshere to be uncooperative and rigid. 68.119.199.84 03:14, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, you have misunderstood that template. It is a template for a Proposed deletion, that is, if the article was not improved in 5 days, it will have to go through the AfD nomination. It is actually better than the last AfD, because it gives time for the editors to work on it and hopefully improve it enough to a point where it does not even need to go through the AfD process to be kept. I am currently adding Gundam project tags on the mobile weapon pages so that if any one did anything similar to them, we can be noticed immediately. (Also, feel free to start watching all the Gundam related pages.) MythSearcher^talk 05:29, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Gundam Seed Astray, need cleaning up?

Hey. I just joined this but im a fan of gundam seed/destiny/astray. I have all 3 of the Astray manga (the third recently coming out in english) and was wondering if it would be okay to clean up the section that wikipedia has on it. I don't mean astray destiny, I have not read that as of yet, but I would like to take the time to change up Astray some, if I have permission.

Nikato 17:14, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to do so, this is wikipedia, you do not need permission to work on anything, just make sure your edits follow wiki's policy such as no speculation/original research. Here is a simplified ruleset that is pretty easy to follow. MythSearcher^talk 02:06, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:38, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Template 'vandalism'

User:Dudeman74 has been editing various templates and entries that use them. This includes replacing certain timeline specific templates to more bloated ones which feature tons of entries. A few months ago I created an SD specific one, which he replaced with a link to the then current AU template. I put it back and left a note on the talk page discussing how he had no right to make that decision. After several months of being left alone, Dudeman again altered the template and deleted my note.--HellCat86 18:56, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

If you are referring to Template:Gundam, I am pretty sure most people would rather have all the information in one place rather than in so many seperate templates, and having to click so many links just to go to a Gundam series in another timeline. Plus, they are still are Gundam shows even though they are in different universes, they should not need to be in seperate templates. Also, I never saw anyone write a comment or complain about the template being removed and never saw anyone reply to your complaint about me deleting the SD Gundam template. I really did feel it was not needed since so many articles weren't even written, so that is why I deleted the comment you posted. I altered your template because it had errors and did not really remove anything, you should not just revert it without a reason, since this is Wikipedia and anyone should be able to edit it, it is not only for you to edit even though you made it. Also, I see that you are the only person complaining about larger templates, but your views do not always reflect everyone else's or else they would have posted here as well and complained about the template being 'bloated'. I really do not see whats wrong with having a large template, its not like you cannot minimize it. Dudeman74 23:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

So your whole argument is "Currently no one has replied, therefore you stand alone"?--HellCat86 03:17, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I personally think that the Gundam template is too large, Universal Century series itself is lengthier than all the other series added together, and a series with plot relationship should be left alone to avoid confusion. MythSearcher^talk 03:25, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

A few things: one, per WP:BOLD, Dudeman has just as much right to edit the templates as anyone else, so he hasn't done anything wrong. Of course, you should discuss if you think the change might be controversial or challenged, etc, but sometimes you don't know that until you edit. However, I've never been a big fan of massively huge nav templates, and would agree that smaller more specific templates should be used. -- Ned Scott 04:14, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

His edits have made the standard Gundam template too bloated. For SD, before I reverted it he'd made the various areas much less distinct (said template is divided between the SD timelines)--HellCat86 05:56, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually the template is quite small for so much information and its not like they are not divided into sections for specific universes. I did nothing wrong to your template, I only made it smaller to match with the other templates. Dudeman74 16:25, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

HellCat, I agree that the template looks bad lumped together, but my point is that Dudeman didn't violate any rule or guideline by editing the template. This kind of thing happens all the time, and it's much easier to just revert and politely ask for discussion. Creating tension often makes the process harder than it needs to be, and many times the user who made the bad style change is willing to hear feedback and go with the flow. There's no reason to take offense to his changes, and because this is Wikipedia we can always revert back to old versions. -- Ned Scott 19:32, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm aware anyone is allowed to edit. The point is he's making choices on fairly major changes alone and then deleting arguments from those against them.--HellCat86 19:36, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

No one made a comment about it or said anything after you posted the comment after a few months, so I thought that no one really cared and that it was no longer needed since you already reverted the template back and I took no further action, so that is why I removed it. Since you are the only person that ever complained about the edits I made, I did not think that your comment about the template was bloated was that important. So if everyone really dislikes the design you can always revert all the templates back, I just felt like trying something new and seeing if people would prefer everything in one place. Dudeman74 20:30, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

The Ball/Ball K/Space Pod

They're currently listed as "Mobile Suits" and "Mobile Vechiles" but in the games they're clearly listed as Mobile Armours. In Gihren's Greed (both versions) the Ball is researched through MA research, Listed Under Mobile Armour in the Construction Listings, Uses MA stat for Pilots. I don't exactly recall all the sources that say this, but there is other sources to support this with Encounters in Space (PS2) and I think there is a brief mention of it in Zeta Gundam. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.89.197.245 (talk) 22:51, 5 January 2007 (UTC).

• They're officially Mobile Pod. Ghiren's Greed include themin MA category since EF doesn't have actual MA to research and have seperate category would be waste. L-Zwei 04:52, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Heads-up on an AfD

I thought I should notify the wikiproject at large that I am nominating AMX-104 R-Jarja for deletion, a new article, but also all the articles in {{Template:Universal Century Mobile weapons}} for a merge or otherwise condensation. See the AfD for more info. Dåvid ƒuchs (talk • contribs) 01:01, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

RX-78-2 is apparently not notable

Some [personal attack removed] have nominated RX-78-2 of all things for deletion. A little help keeping it out of the hands of this deletionist anti-Gundam cabal Wikipedia seems to have going would be much appreciated. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yzak Jule (talk • contribs) 07:40, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

The type of ignorance shown on AfD makes me hesistant to continue editting wikipedia at all. Seriously, one of the voters suggested that they punitatively dismantle this wikiproject along with deleting the article. WTF? Kyaa the Catlord 10:04, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Well to be honest I was thinking the same thing (about the project needing a good hard look at) - the fannish details of the articles produced is certainly not in keeping with wikipedia. Don't get me wrong - as a general sci-fi fanboy I think the articles are great but in their current condition they don't belong here - too many long articles about things with no real world relevance - prose that is far too in-universe etc etc.

Can I suggest two things:

1) You solicit a couple of wikipedia editors who are NOT fans of the series to assist with the project, they can help give you some balance with the general goals of the community (I've been suggesting this to various projects for a while - I think every wikiproject needs a couple of general editors rather than fans).

2) If there is not a Gundamwiki - people here have a look at setting one up. You have amassed a fantastic amount of material and I suspect a general gundamwiki would be a real hit.

--Charlesknight 10:18, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

The project is barely 9 months old. Holding it accountable for articles created in 2004 is completely unfair. Kyaa the Catlord 10:26, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

My thoughts exactly. Rather than blame a WikiProject people should be using them as a tool to help with the very cleanup they wish for. -- Ned Scott 10:32, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that people misuse AfD, it isn't meant to draw attention to articles needing cleanup, there are tags for that. It should be a last step in the process, not the first one as it has been in a number of these cases. Especially the CE mobile suit quagmire. Kyaa the Catlord 10:35, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

There is a gundam Wiki, http://gundam.wikia.com -- Ned Scott 10:32, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I visited there last year and found it's ridiculous plague with fault info, something shouldn't happen when external wiki was creat, as staff should actively take care of them. I may have too high standard by compare it to X-Com's UFOpaedia, but that's my reason to leave the site alone. The founder just state at MAHQ forum that the site was pretty much abandoned long ago, as he really has no time to take care of it and though the site is already "gone" [27]. This is the second sickest joke I ever saw *sigh*... L-Zwei 14:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

• This event demorale me...RX-78 is one of last Gundam article that should got AfD nom in my opinion (and now someone remove majority of the article). I will go and vote, but...I'm pretty much loss will to work on other article completly.

Semi-off topic. Ever heard the Budhist tale of donkey? It's about how a craftman spend several months to creat some beautiful pots, yet a donkey shatter them all with single kick. Does this mean the donkey is better than the craftman? No, while it can destroy all of beautiful pots so easily, it won't able to creat even single pot in whole life.... These deletionists just remind me of this tale...*sigh* L-Zwei 13:21, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I think someone should nominate X-Wing for deletion with the very same rationale RX-78 is being judged on. Kyaa the Catlord 13:42, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

If you truly do believe that RX-78 has special well-referenced notability, I would suggest mentioning this in the AFD discussion, with reasons why it is notable. This is better than making comments about 'the type of ignorance shown on AfD', or arm-waving about other articles that exist. If you believe before the close of the 5 day period that article is very much different (i.e., better) from that which was initially nominated for deletion, let me know, and I will be only too happy to review my vote, and I am sure that many of the others who recommended 'delete' would do the same. This is not using AFD as cleanup, that's always been a poor call - we can only assess the article and its referencing, reliability, neutrality, tone, etc, "as is". Proto::► 13:52, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your instruction, sensei. I've stopped taking you seriously. Kyaa the Catlord 13:54, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

And with that, I shall not even try and help you any further. Proto::► 18:47, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

You were trying to help? I must have missed it in all the patronizing you were doing. 18:54, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

In my case, who pretty much concern about now-removed spec, I translate it from Japaneese version of the article. So it is as reliable as any wikipedia article (which mean...isn't much?) *sigh* . L-Zwei 14:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that was Farix's doing. I didn't cut anything from the article. (IMO, if the JP wiki has some refs for it, you should readd and reference the specs again.) Kyaa the Catlord 14:16, 9 January 2007 (UTC)