Talk:Israel–Hamas war protests

Requested move 14 October 2023

Protests on the 2023 Israel-Hamas war → Protests against the 2023 Israel-Hamas war.

I think we should replace the "on the" part with "against the". Protests against the Iraq War, Protests against the 2011 military intervention in Libya, Protests against Donald Trump, Protests against the Russian invasion of Ukraine. DementiaGaming (talk) 01:02, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. A lot of these protests do not appear to be against war. Many are protests for Israel. Or for Palestine. Or for Hamas. They do not necessarily be primarily anti-war. Loksmythe (talk) 02:35, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Move to Protests over the 2023 Israel-Hamas war Loksmythe (talk) 19:50, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support or move to Protests over the 2023 Israel-Hamas war. I support moving this article. It can be to the suggested name or Protests over the 2023 Israel-Hamas war. There's a similar article name called International protests over the 2021 Israel–Palestine crisis, and those protests were pro-Palestine and pro-Israel. --217.180.201.161 (talk) 18:13, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Support move to Protests over the 2023 Israel-Hamas war, per above. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:45, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

• Move to Protests over the 2023 Israel-Hamas war. Grammatical and neutral, should fit any sensible article scope. DementiaGaming, how do you feel about "over the"? If you support it, I think you can just move the article there on the basis on current unanimous consensus. HLHJ (talk) 08:53, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
  • Per Neuralnewt and referencing CarmenEsparzaAmoux (in their comments in sections below) I'd favour something like Demonstrations over the 2023 Israel-Hamas war, to clearly include vigils, public mourning, public prayer, etc. (which are demonstative). Distentangling those from protests seems a needless ontological difficulty that would create awkward article scopes. HLHJ (talk) 10:29, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• HLHJ (talk) 10:39, 19 October 2023 (UTC) Copying NeuralNewt's comment (formatting slightly modified for technical reasons), since I think an interface error posted it in the wrong section:

  My preference would be an article titled 'Public reactions to the 2023 Israel-Hamas war', which would be inclusive the broader (and less slanted) scope of responses expressed. This would categorically invite other non-protest demonstrations such as vigils and violent words/acts, in addition to expressions of organizational/governmental origin (statements, open letters, projections of flags, etc...) Vigils and public mourning are conceptually different from my understanding of 'protest', which is why I take issue with the title of this page.
  — User:Neuralnewt 16:07, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Bias in reporting?

I could be mistaken of course but it seems like this article was written with a pro Palestinian bias. By no means am I trying to excuse Israeli war crimes or past crimes against the Palestinian people (I shouldn’t even have to clarify this but I don’t want some weirdo to start arguing with me just because I bring up something which seems to be an issue), but I could only find one part of this referencing anti-semitism during the demonstrations and that was under the Australia section. I know for a fact that there were some outright pro Hamas protests in Sweden chanting stuff like “death to Jews” and praising the attacks committed by Hamas. I also heard from a friend (which I will fully admit isn’t exactly a good source “I heard from a friend” I mean) that people were shouting “gas the Jews” in Vienna and clashing with police. Perhaps what’s more obviously pointing to a bias is the lack of pro Israeli demonstrations. Again in the Australia section it does mention a vigil for the victims of Hamas’ attacks, but I couldn’t find anything similar for any other country, and that is despite me knowing that there have been vigils and such for the victims of Hamas’s attack.

I want to reiterate that I can very well be wrong and that there just haven’t been many pro Israel demonstrations or vigils and that this article just doesn’t really mention the actions of minorities of demonstrators, but it does seem like this article might actually be a tad biased.

TL;DR: This article almost exclusively mentions protests in solidarity with Palestine and barely the vice versa at all and seems to ignore certain actions taken by pro Palestinian protesters. 188.150.162.83 (talk) 23:27, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Ok I found a clear example of bias now. This section was removed for no reason “ The conflict prompted thousands to participate in vigils and protests. A candlelight vigil led by Jewish individuals at the University of Florida.” about 10 hours ago.

perhaps this article should have been write protected because there seems to be a lot of people editing this to suit their biases... the edit did move some stuff around and rewrote some things but I didn’t see this section referenced at all anymore the user who did the edit just deleted this and it seems to have been a politically motivated action. 188.150.162.83 (talk) 23:33, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

The article has a balance problem. Actually, several.

1. Many pro-Palestine protests have been documented in the article, with good cited sources, while pro-Israel protests reported in the same sources have not. The article doesn't really give an impression of the balance of protest activity (even where independent sources have compiled statistics on protest activity, which makes it a lot easier).
2. There is also a division of protests into "pro-Israel" vs. "pro-Palestinian", which fails to fit protests with slogans like "Free Palestine from Hamas"[1] (Hamas, pre-conflict, was doing worse in polls than Netanyahu), pro-peace protests, protests calling for specific actions to be taken to de-escalate the conflict, in-group protests against specific politicians and factions, etc..
3. There is a lack of coverage of ethnic and religious hatred in demonstrations; also, calls from religious leaders promoting or condemning it. While many people have emphasized this as a political conflict, not a religious or ethnic one, the opposite view is clearly notable and relevant to some protests.
4. The impression of violence and danger at such protests also seems overstated; while violence inevitably gets media attention, most protests have been peaceful, and sources describe opposing protestors as engaging in peaceful discussion or mutual toleration, which does not come across in the article.
5. Non-rally protests (example[2]) are also underrepresented.

I have partly remedied these faults in the US section. A lot more work is needed, so I've templated.

New editors, welcome! You might like these links on the Wikipedia-specific ways the terms WP:Balance and WP:Bias are used; editors obviously spend a lot of time thinking about this sort of thing. HLHJ (talk) 11:52, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

The bias is expected in this political arena. Near fact there was no bomb crater is pure evidence this was not an Israeli bomb. It was more of a fire bottom created from small projectile loaded with fuel. Very easy to see with the photos. I won't mention this ever anywhere. 71.56.79.106 (talk) 12:07, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

References

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Comment on renaming discussion, moved to that section. HLHJ (talk) 11:52, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

:My preference would be an article titled 'Public reactions to the 2023 Israel-Hamas war', which would be inclusive the broader (and less slanted) scope of responses expressed. This would categorically invite other non-protest demonstrations such as vigils and violent words/acts, in addition to expressions of organizational/governmental origin (statements, open letters, projections of flags, etc...) Vigils and public mourning are conceptually different from my understanding of 'protest', which is why I take issue with the title of this page. Neuralnewt (talk) 16:07, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Catholic Church Protest of 5,000 needs Source

Apparently this was removed for having an invalid source. We do know that Fr. Mike led a procession of 5,000 Catholics through Times Square.

United States

On 10 October, Father Mike Schmitz held a Mass for peace in Israel followed by a procession of 5,000 Catholics.

Please add when possible. Twillisjr (talk) 15:13, 15 October 2023 (UTC) Twillisjr (talk) 15:13, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

References

Protest with 15000 people today in the Netherlands, could someone add it?

https://nos.nl/collectie/13959/artikel/2494207-hoop-dat-het-ze-kracht-geeft-deze-mensen-gingen-de-straat-op-voor-palestina

And add a date to this bit: "A group of students rallied in The Hague to show solidarity with Palestine."

I can't edit the page... Thanks! Spinarak (talk) 20:42, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Added. Iskandar323 (talk) 16:35, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

The problem with the lede

The Lede is not a good representative of the content in the main body of the article. The main body is about demonstrations in support of Palestine, but the lede is mainly about support for Israel. And the second paragraph has nothing to do with "protests". Can someone fix the problem? Ghazaalch (talk) 03:10, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

This article is full of bias Pro-Palestine editors. Twillisjr (talk) 14:37, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

As far as I see, the lede is biased and should be fixed. I'll fix it myself.Ghazaalch (talk) 20:18, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Pro-Palestine protest in the Philippines hours ago.

This is not a fake news site. They're over 500-1000 attendies on the Plaza earlier from 2 PM- 6 PM (Philippine Time) --NahuelFanboy2004 (talk) 11:00, 16 October 2023 (UTC)https://www.facebook.com/radyobanderacotabato/posts/pfbid022JUxm1VoRibxFnuZrbw73gxJHjfABAZF6SQC281FiaMjpeiXcN9T1U5mj171juRil

Need something better than Facebook. Borgenland (talk) 10:44, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Infobox

The lead specifically states that both pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian protests are happening. Please include that in the objectives. Borgenland (talk) 18:53, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Ok, wait, these articles both describe vigils, which I don't believe have objectives? I was actually going to add "Return of hostages" to the objectives section in the infobox but I couldn't find a source describing a protest with that specific goal. CarmenEsparzaAmoux (talk) 19:57, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

I've added mourning the dead as an objective, since that's what some of the vigil-attendees (and other protestors) say they are gathering to do. "Ceasefire" seems to be an objective on both sides. I've also added freeing hostages; there's plenty of sources for protests specifically demanding the freeing of hostages held by Hamas. "Peace" is also a verifiable objective of some protestors. HLHJ (talk) 10:17, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Not sure if I've properly seen a Stand with Israel thing but I am wondering what these aims are once it becomes clear. Borgenland (talk) 10:45, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Misinformation about protests

Should [3] this be mentioned? Some people mischaracterized a chant from a pro-Palestine rally in an attempt to stoke outrage from the pro-Israel side. Perhaps there should be a subsection about misinformation and false claims about the protests. 2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:77FB (talk) 19:51, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Three protests in the Hague and two in Rotterdam

I can't edit the page, if someone could add these that would be great, thank you.

Three new protests in the Hague:

17th of October: https://www.omroepwest.nl/nieuws/4767387/honderden-mensen-demonstreren-bij-israelische-ambassade-in-den-haag

Headline in English: "Hundreds demonstrate at Israeli embassy in The Hague"

18th of October: https://www.omroepwest.nl/nieuws/4767642/pro-palestina-demo-loopt-uit-de-hand-zwaar-vuurwerk-naar-politie-gegooid

Headline in English: "Pro-Palestine demo gets out of hand, heavy fireworks thrown at police"

21st of October: https://www.omroepwest.nl/nieuws/4771104/mars-van-honderden-pro-palestina-demonstranten-door-den-haag-pvv-wil-spoeddebat

Headline in English: "March of hundreds of pro-Palestine demonstrators through The Hague, PVV wants emergency debate"

Two new protests in Rotterdam:

18th of October: https://www.rijnmond.nl/nieuws/1727862/spontane-demonstratie-tegen-israel-voor-rotterdam-centraal-dit-moet-stoppen

Headline in English: "Spontaneous demonstration against Israel in front of Rotterdam Central Station: 'This must stop'"

22nd of October: https://www.rijnmond.nl/nieuws/1729409/duizenden-demonstranten-vragen-aandacht-voor-het-lot-van-palestijnen-bij-protestmars-in-rotterdam

Headline in English: "Thousands of protesters call attention to fate of Palestinians at protest march in Rotterdam"

~ Spinarak (talk) 20:10, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Bias

This was clearly written from a pro-Palestinian pov. Since when did Wikipedia become a place of political ego? Almost only pro-Palestinian rallies are mentioned, unbalanced reporting on post crimes like mentioning the Arab boy killed by his landlord but not the Jewish woman stabbed to death a few days ago. This is borderline propaganda. 2600:1700:400D:F400:6C33:18C:D118:43D9 (talk) 08:34, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

If you’re talking about Samantha Woll, police in that case have already said they believe her killing was _not_ a hate crime, so it wouldn’t belong here anyway.2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:2B9A (talk) 16:40, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Regardless, this has barely any mentions of pro Israeli rallies or anything pro Israeli really.. might as well change the name of the page to 2023 pro-Palestinian protests 2600:1700:400D:F400:4569:B36D:21D1:64A2 (talk) 20:34, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

"Since when did Wikipedia become a place of political ego?" - Since forever, but it's only now finally being discussed because it's two groups on the Left contesting the content, and pushing their biases, and the Right is left out of it for once. If what I'm saying doesn't make sense to you, then I suggest you do some hard thinking about Wikipedia and the views of its hand-picked, curated editors. 223.25.59.251 (talk) 09:46, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Virtual protests?

Would protests in virtual reality environments be worth mentioning here? Here is an article on protests in Roblox, a game which is most popular with children. 2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:2B9A (talk) 16:40, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 October 2023

• India

On 27 October, Pro-Palestinian protests erupted in Calicut, Kerala Tens of thousands of people gathered at Kozhikode Beach for a pro-Palestine rally organized by the Indian Union Muslim League

File:IUML - HUMAN RIGHTS RALLY CALICUT INDIA 2023.jpg

IUML-Palestine solidarity Rally At Calicut, India 2023 October 26

Spworld2 (talk) 08:42, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

 Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 22:11, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

References

Infobox photo balance

My attempt to ensure that the infobox pictures were balanced with equal pro-Israel and pro-Palestine photos was reverted by User:Abazizfahad, though strangely, he didn't seem to abide by the WP:BRD process—simply reverting without bother to discuss (or even put in an edit summary) as to why. I'm going to assume good faith here and give them a chance to explain and for others to chime in. -- Veggies (talk) 10:46, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Instead of counting how many photos of Israel or Palestine have been used here, it should be considered that the photos of any area have been used globally. If the image of Bangladesh is not placed here, it will not represent the entire Asia or South Asia. Abazizfahad (talk) 11:01, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

@Veggies So I strongly want to say that you try to balance in some other way without removing the image of Bangladesh Abazizfahad (talk) 11:03, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

@Abazizfahad: That reasoning doesn't make sense. 1) We can't include everywhere any protests have taken place into one infobox. 2) One protest in Bangladesh does not represent the feelings of all of Asia or even South Asia and it's absurd to claim so. 3) There's no reason given for as to why we shouldn't count the balance of photos in the infobox. 4) There's no reason given for as to why the photo of Bangladesh can't serve its purpose within the body of the article. Would you be fine removing the other pro-Palestine protest photo and keeping the Bangladesh one? -- Veggies (talk) 11:09, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Agree with Number 2. Reeks too much of hogging. Borgenland (talk) 11:12, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

I mean there are no pictures from the whole of Asia (either pro-Israel or pro-Palestinian) except the one from Bangladesh, and there is no question of removing any other pro-Palestinian pictures. Abazizfahad (talk) 11:17, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Oh, so what you're saying is: you're not even going to address the points brought up. You just want what you want and aren't going to compromise or find a work-around. Got it. You have two photos from the same protest, taken at the same spot, at pretty much the same time in the article and you don't even want to discuss removing one. -- Veggies (talk) 11:30, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

I am not restricting you from using your image in imagebox. But as war protests are global I am against using only UK protest related images in the image box. And my second picture is used elsewhere in the article, hope there is no problem. Finally I apologize for canceling your edit without providing any summary. Abazizfahad (talk) 11:59, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Even my second picture I didn't use in this article, someone else did. Abazizfahad (talk) 12:02, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

You started the discussion to add this image to the imagebox, so why add another image now? Abazizfahad (talk) 05:31, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

What's that link? It isn't anything on Commons or Wikimedia. I'm not clicking it. -- Veggies (talk) 06:13, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

It's fine, I clicked it, its this link.VR _talk 01:40, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Ah. Yeah, I initially was thinking of adding that photo because the other ones I saw that were pro-Israel were from very weird, almost tortured perspectives or too dark, but I concluded that File:Stand With Israel Event (53253373873).jpg, even though there isn't much of the crowd visible, is still more immediately striking than File:Rally-for-Israel-Washington-DC-Oct-13.jpg. -- Veggies (talk) 05:24, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

• I would suggest one pro-Palestine protest and one pro-Israel protest. Which one should be above and which should be below, I don't know. If they are vertical, they can be side to side.VR _talk 01:39, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
  • I'd be fine with that. Question would be: what images to use. -- Veggies (talk) 05:24, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Please add this under india section-IMPORTANT

A leader and former head of the Hamas millitant group, Khaled Mashal, participated virtually in a rally organised in Kerala's Malappuram. In a video, the Hamas leader Khaled Mashal could be seen addressing the people.He was invited by youth wing of Jamaat-e-Islami.Visuals from the event shows banners with slogans like “Uproot Bulldozer Hindutva & Apartheid Zionism”.BJP state president K Surendran expressed concern that the conflict was being used to fuel communal tensions in the state.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/hamas-leader-khaled-mashal-kerala-rally-virtual-speech-malappuram-solidarity-youth-movement-2454776-2023-10-28

https://thecommunemag.com/uproot-hindutva-terror-outfit-hamas-founder-khaled-mashal-addresses-kerala-youth-wing-of-jamaat-e-islami-hind/

https://www.aajtak.in/india/news/story/hamas-leader-khaled-mashal-participated-virtually-in-a-youth-resistance-rally-in-malappuram-kerala-ntc-1807984-2023-10-28

https://india.postsen.com/News/amp/1228026

(and their are many other sources.) Mindhack diva (talk) 13:00, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Add under Israel section

Protest in Tel Aviv, October 28, calling for a ceasefire and hostage deal with Hamas. 24.191.22.253 (talk) 16:55, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 October 2023

The wiki page states that in the United States of America, their has been a roughly equal amount of numbers for protest for both Israeli and Palestinian sides. This is no longer accurate as of October 28th 2023. Chicago alone has seen multiple weekends of over 25,000 demonstrators and their has not been any Israeli protest that large. In addition, Jewish Voices of Peace have held large sit ins at Grand Central Terminal and in Washington DC. This needs to be updated. 67.83.133.170 (talk) 17:13, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done That sentence is written in past tense, referring to In the ten days after the attack. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 22:20, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

McDonald’s mice protest

I wonder if this deserves a mention in the United Kingdom section. Due to the inherently bizarre nature of the stunt, it’s received quite a bit of coverage despite being the work of a single individual. It’s also part of a broader trend of boycotting corporations such as McDonald’s, which have been the subject of rumors alleging that they support Israel.2600:1014:B072:E984:E0BF:F8DA:E50C:1438 (talk) 17:15, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

It’s no longer just a one-off. The exact same stunt with releasing mice has now occurred at three different McDonald’s locations in the UK. Since it’s become a trend, I’d say it deserves mentioning.2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:5786 (talk) 05:04, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

I think this also merits a separate chapter on corporate related protests within this article. Borgenland (talk) 05:51, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Right-wing pro-Palestine protests

Most of the pro-Palestine protests that have occurred are affiliated with either the political left or Islamists, but there certainly are exceptions. There was a protest by anti-Israel far-rightists outside the White House led by Mike Peinovich last weekend. It might be worth including this, because it shows how protesters in support of one side aren’t necessarily all on the same ideological page. 2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:7B67 (talk) 17:50, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

It can. It just has to be phrased in such a way that would not seem it was copy-pasted from a neo-Nazi pamphlet or sound a bit WP:FRINGE. Borgenland (talk) 05:53, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Added a sample just now. Borgenland (talk) 05:58, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Biased pro-Palestine narrative around protests and surrounding topics

I very much agree with other comments here that this article is biased and needs changing. I would like to add an example - the sentence: "In some European countries, public support for Palestinian human rights was criminalized"

This is clearly wrong. Pro-Hamas displays and associated chants and symbols were criminalised, but public support of Palestinian human rights was never once criminalised.

Also there is no mention of the numerous arrests for pro-Hamas and antisemitic displays present at pro-Palestine protests (as well as some incidents of violence). It is important that these are mentioned. Neutral Editor 645 (talk) 12:38, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

That's an odd portrayal of events. Criminalizing words and imagery is a curbing of freedom of speech, and the wider problem that has been concurrent with the protests has been the false labelling of Palestinian solidarity protests, and associated free speech, as being "pro-Hamas" - something for which the BBC had to actively apologise for. Iskandar323 (talk) 13:19, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Wasn’t there a mention here by Suella Braverman proposing a ban on displays of the national Palestinian flag? Borgenland (talk) 13:21, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

I heard about this too. That said, displaying the flag has not been banned in the UK. Even if it were, it would not prevent prevent protests in favour of Palestinian human rights, but would rather just restrict the use of Palestine flags in these protests. Signs displaying "stop the war", "save Gaza", "ceasefire now" and so on, would all still be perfectly legal.

The current wording of the article is biased, misleading and problematic. Neutral Editor 645 (talk) 15:40, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

The odd portrayal is yours, not mine. You are wondering into conspiracy theory land here. Criminalizing "from the river to the sea" as an alleged hate slogan, as well as certain symbols, does not in any way prevent people from protesting about Palestinian human rights, as the article currently claims. Protests in favour of Palestinian human rights are indeed taking place across the UK and similar countries, just within the boundaries of what is legal. Neutral Editor 645 (talk) 15:36, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Hmm ... how about you refrain from the aspersion. Criminalizing any form of speech is pretty piss poor in a democracy, even "alleged hate slogans" - it's sort of the point of democracy that people decide what to say, not the government. The very existence of government discussions to set boundaries on protest is despicable. Iskandar323 (talk) 15:57, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

That's a lot of opinion, but you're missing the point - protests may be subject to limitations and restrictions in some jurisdictions, but protesting in favour of Palestinian human rights is not criminalized. Neutral Editor 645 (talk) 16:15, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Is it just the 'criminalized' part? I believe Germany went there. Iskandar323 (talk) 16:53, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Germany banned pro-Hamas demonstrations. Note the timing of Germany's ban - it was after Hamas' Oct 7th massacre of Jews and before Israel launched any full military response. Neutral Editor 645 (talk) 14:06, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

And how is it defining "pro-Hamas demonstrations"? Note that the source says "Across Germany, demonstrations against Israel’s bombardment on Gaza have been banned and criminalised." Iskandar323 (talk) 14:33, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Let us just quickly note that your "source" is newarab.com - perhaps not the most balanced or appropriate source for impartially discussing a contentious sub-topic of the Arab-Israeli Conflict. Try BBC, CNN or similar. Neutral Editor 645 (talk) 15:58, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Well, it hasn't been designated as GUNREL yet. "The ban will apply to fundraising, the display of the Palestinian flag, and even the wearing of the Palestinian keffiyeh." - now does that sound like criminalizing hate, or just Palestinian national symbols? Iskandar323 (talk) 18:10, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

This was done in the context of rampant pro-Hamas massacre demonstrations. Do restrictions on flags and keffiyehs stop anyone from carrying a banner about Palestinian human rights? Neutral Editor 645 (talk) 23:19, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

In practice, yes. How do you hold a protest about a national cause when you are not even able to use basic national symbols such as flags? However, the line in question should probably be about the Palestinian cause, not human rights. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:47, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

I think that's a reasonable adjustment of the words - the Palestinian cause is indeed broader and demonstrations for it were restricted heavily in some countries. Neutral Editor 645 (talk) 09:33, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Paul Kessler

A California man died after being hit in the head during dueling protests over Israel-Gaza. Notable enough to include? [4] 2600:1014:B072:E984:A06A:7823:15CC:5190 (talk) 16:55, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

I agree that it is notable enough to include - you have me as part of your consensus here. In general, the significant levels of pro-Palestinian protestor violence towards Jews, Israelis and pro-Israel demonstrators, need to be mentioned. This is a notable example of this. Neutral Editor 645 (talk) 23:22, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Suggest not mentioning the person’s name directly per WP:MEMORIAL unless he gets his own article. Borgenland (talk) 23:57, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

2023 in the United States collage submission

This article was proposed as a potential choice for the 2023 in the United States collage. You are free to participate in the collage choice discussion here: Talk:2023 in the United States#Collage submissions. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 07:53, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 November 2023

There was a massive pro-Israel rally in Buenos Aires on October 9th that I believe should be added in the South American section of this article - https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/amp/argentina/jewish-organisations-in-argentina-march-in-support-of-israel.phtml There was also a massive pro-Israel rally held in Toronto on October 9th that should also be added in the North America - Canada section - https://www.timesofisrael.com/15000-toronto-jews-and-allies-rally-for-israel-following-devastating-hamas-attack/amp/ There was also pro-Israel rallies held in Montreal and Ottawa - https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/bring-them-home-israel-supporters-chant-at-montreal-rally-for-gaza-hostages 174.88.95.75 (talk) 23:03, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done See 2023 Israel–Hamas war protests#Argentina and 2023 Israel–Hamas war protests#Canada - it looks like these are already there. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 22:11, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Start date

The ibox says the protests started on 7 Oct, which isn't referenced. The rest of the article doesn't say anything about protests on 7 or 8 Oct. Were there protests that early against the 2023 Hamas attack on Israel? Jim 2 Michael (talk) 19:55, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 9 November 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Clear consensus exists against the move as proposed, as well as the alternative proposed by a supporter of moving to demonstrations instead of rallies. (closed by non-admin page mover) EggRoll97 ^(talk) 15:00, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

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2023 Israel–Hamas war protests → 2023 Israel–Hamas war rallies – As the person who moved this to the current title, I think this should be moved to "rallies" -- "protests" tends to be used for pro-Palestine rallies, so this is a good way to encompass both and remove possible bias. Thoughts? GnocchiFan (talk) 20:49, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Weak oppose - I support the idea, but I don't think this particular proposal would work. "Pro-Palestinian rallies" is relatively uncommon compared to "protests" [5][6]. Something like 2023 Israel–Hamas war demonstrations might be better. estar8806 (talk) ★ 21:19, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

I think 2023 Israel–Hamas war demonstrations is good too. GnocchiFan (talk) 21:36, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose. Rallies sounds a bit informal in my opinion. Borgenland (talk) 01:49, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Comment: I think the broader question here is whether this article needs to be split into anti-war demonstrations, which are now by far the largest share of such protests, and other types of protest. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:12, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose and instead I'd propose maybe splitting the article into one documenting protests in support of Israel and one documenting protests against Israel. PaulRKil (talk) 14:56, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Support 2023 Israel–Hamas war demonstrations, since it can work for both pro-Israel rallies and pro-Palestine protests BappleBusiness^[talk] 17:56, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose all above proposals. While the names suggested are not inherently wrong, the article is about protests of any sort. The proposed moves are hence analogous to having a pot on the stove that has a fitting lid and replacing it by a lid that just doesn't cover it. gidonb (talk) 14:52, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Heavy Oppose. Rallies sound too informal. If we could move, BappleBusiness's proposal would be a good idea, but its just too early. Keep the orignal name for now. Joaquinazo (talk) 16:45, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose. Not all protests are rallies. We needn't change the scope of the article here. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 04:46, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested split 10 November 2023

• Split 2023 Israel-Hamas war protests into 2023 Israel–Hamas war protests against Israel and 2023 Israel–Hamas war protests in support of Israel. I believe it has become abundantly clear that this article would benefit from splitting it into articles that document protests for Israel and protests against Israel respectively given the article can be a little hard to read and there has been accusations of bias in favor of one side in this conflict which will become increasingly unavoidable as protests against Israel's actions have been substantially larger in many parts of the world. If agreed, I cannot do the split. PaulRKil (talk) 15:10, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Would instances which include both types of demo be in both articles? Jim 2 Michael (talk) 23:01, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. We'd be spreading this subject much too thin. I also agree with Jim 2 Michael's concern. Better to create one stable, well-populated article, and eventually to delete stuff that isn't very important. gidonb (talk) 17:25, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Infobox order

Should the infobox photos feature pro-Israel protests/rallies at the top or pro-Palestine protest/rallies at the top? The previous consensus stated that there should be an even balance between the two sides, but didn't state the order. For the past few weeks, it has flip-flopped between the two so a consensus would be useful. My belief is that the pro-Palestine protests should be on top because they are more prevalent, more attended, and have more media coverage. - RockinJack18 16:42, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Europe topic images

I WP:BOLDLY edited one of the 3 images at the top of the Europe section from a pro-Palestine one to a pro-Israel (anti antisemitism) one (disclosure, the one I put in was taken by myself). In my opinion these should be somewhat balanced so that readers can get an image on both sides. If anyone disagrees, feel free to WP:BRD. S5A-0043^Talk 06:45, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Some might dispute whether pro-Israel is necessarily equivalent to anti-antisemitism but I do appreciate you reminding that there are spillovers and side effects of this war. Borgenland (talk) 02:36, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

USA

We really need to set common standards in placing states by region. My criteria has been the US census standards as seen in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_of_the_United_States#/media/File:Census_Regions_and_Division_of_the_United_States.svg.

However, I do acknowledge that it is sometimes awkward to think of DC, Maryland and Delaware having anything to do with the "Deep South". Any other standards than can be proposed? Borgenland (talk) 09:51, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Updating the death toll?

In the article, it says "the number of dead has exceeded 9,770". Isn't that outdated? I thought it has passed 11000. How often should the death toll be updated? InkyToast (talk) 14:40, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Pro-Israel rally in Toronto - October 9th Over 15,000 attendees

Why hasn’t this been added in the North America - Canada section of this article?

Over 15,000 attendees including Canadian politicians such as MP Melissa Lantsman and Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow.

https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/barrie/2023/10/11/1_6597563.amp.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.88.95.75 (talk) 04:05, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

https://www.timesofisrael.com/15000-toronto-jews-and-allies-rally-for-israel-following-devastating-hamas-attack/amp/ 174.88.95.75 (talk) 20:01, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

There was also a large demonstration at Nathan Phillips Square this past weekend.

• https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/thousands-of-pro-palestinian-protesters-marched-through-downtown-toronto-police-say/article_4ffa46bf-a282-59de-9585-0e8fdd8d0cd0.html

---Another Believer _(Talk) 19:59, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

March for Israel - Washington, D.C., November 14

Editors are invited to help expand March for Israel, which is already mentioned in this entry. Thanks, ---Another Believer _(Talk) 20:00, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

300K at pro Israeli protest in D.C.

Why is there so much bias on this page? Almost only pro-Palestinian protests are mentioned and the biggest pro-Israeli protest in DC with over 300,000 people is not. No option to edit either. Can someone please turn this page into informative with updated facts and no bias? 2600:1700:400D:F400:8C61:3C16:C4FC:6599 (talk) 03:07, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

March for Israel has its own article now as mentioned above. Feel free to edit it if you want. Digitslain12 (talk) 17:32, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Another Pro-Israel rally in Toronto - November 12

There was another recent pro-israel rally in Toronto, Canada on Sunday, November 12 with around 4,000-5,000 participants that has not been added to the North America - Canada section.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/thousands-gather-for-pro-israel-rally-at-christie-pits-park/article_99ec24ba-4a84-5544-befe-aa5a98abef56.amp.html 174.88.95.75 (talk) 03:38, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Added. Digitslain12 (talk) 17:34, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Pro-Israel rallies in Vancouver

Two pro-Israel demonstrations were held in Vancouver, Canada. The first one being on October 10th and the second one on Sunday, November 19th. Thought it should be added to the North America - Canada section.

Sources from Canadian media:

https://globalnews.ca/news/10015682/israel-rally-vancouver-oct-10/amp/

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7033493 174.88.95.75 (talk) 22:37, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

UK

UK is becoming quite big and organized enough for a separate article. Propose this be split off and leave a summary here. Borgenland (talk) 02:20, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Over 3,000 in solidarity with Israel in Mexico City

For Mexico section: Over 3,000 did a rally in solidarity with Israel in Mexico City on Sunday October 15, 2023.

source:

https://www.eluniversal.com.mx/nacion/fotos-comunidad-judia-en-mexico-realiza-acto-de-solidaridad-con-el-pueblo-de-israel/?outputType=amp 174.88.95.75 (talk) 05:09, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done.

Zinderboff 20:09, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Pro-Israel rally South Korea

There was a pro-Israel rally held on Tuesday,October 17th in Seoul,South Korea of about 500.

“Supporters of Israel took to the streets in Seoul on Tuesday, urging Hamas militants to stop their killing of civilians, as war continues to escalate between the two sides.”

Source: The Korean Herald

https://m.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20231017000584

Thought this should be added to the Asia - South Korea section. 174.88.95.75 (talk) 10:09, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Essentially duplicate pictures

Two pictures used in this article appear to be a sequence of the same event in Bangladesh taken moments apart and uploaded by the same user. Suggest one of them be replaced for the sake of non-repetition. Borgenland (talk) 16:43, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

I removed it the one in the infobox and left the one in the article itself. -- Veggies (talk) 20:28, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Harvard and "from the river to the sea"

The article currently contains an error. Harvard did not ban the expression "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free." Rather the president of Harvard condemned the use of this phrase, but it is not banned on the Harvard campus. The incorrect sentence should be deleted from this article. Westwind273 (talk) 22:12, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Pro-Israel rally in Ottawa over 20,000

Please add in the North America - Canada section please: Over 20,000 protesters in support of Israel held a rally in Ottawa Parliament Hill on December 4th.

Source: https://www.jns.org/some-20000-brave-sub-freezing-temperatures-for-pro-israel-ottawa-rally/ 174.88.95.75 (talk) 06:33, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Done Justanotherguy54 (talk) 19:06, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Ireland protests

The list of towns and cities in which protests have taken place in Ireland should be amended to include Belfast and Derry. These two cities are in Ireland. Daoipal1930s (talk) 12:20, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Title: "Israel–Hamas war protests"

Suggest new title: "Israel bombardment of Gaza protests". Can an attack by a military superpower (Israel) on the population of a small territory (in Gaza) with minimal armed resistance be reasonably described as a war? I think not. Daoipal1930s (talk) 12:52, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Do you think the heavily armed, heavily motivated Al-Qassam brigades with 15,000-40,000 militants spread across tunnels and buildings is “minimal armed resistance”? Justanotherguy54 (talk) 19:00, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

The relative strengths of the protagonists is clear. Israel, a state, is a military superpower with an army, a navy, an airforce (IDF active personnel 169,500, reserve personnel 465,000), state-of-the-art weaponry and machinery, and nuclear bombs. Al-Qassam brigades (not a state) has much less than a tenth of the IDF's strength. Hamas has no navy, no airforce and no nuclear bombs. IDF deaths c. 100; Palestinian deaths in Gaza: c. 18,000. This is not a war. It's a one-sided onslaught. To call it a war, as this Wikipedia page does, is to misrepresent the reality. Daoipal1930s (talk) 20:34, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Militant groups like Hamas, even if not technically a state, can pose a challenge to even the most technologically superior military, especially if said militant groups hides in tunnels and among civilian buildings, meaning they could be anywhere. Not to mention Hamas is still very capable ie missile launches. Dense urban warfare is notorious for being defender-sided. Justanotherguy54 (talk) 23:56, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Pro-Israel rally in Japan

“A rally in support of Israel was held in Tokyo on October 11th demanding for an immediate release of all hostages captured by Hamas during its October 7 attack on Israel.”

source: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/commentary/2023/10/30/world/primer-israel-hamas-war/

For the Asia - Japan section that has not been added yet. 174.88.95.75 (talk) 21:44, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Sweden Ban?

Pro-Palestinian demonstrations were prohibited in Sweden, which was rationalized as necessary to uphold public order and prevent disruptions. Nevertheless, the measures prompted worries among human rights organizations, which contend that governments have an international responsibility to safeguard the rights of freedom of expression and assembly.[7]

Is this accurate? The source does not even mention Sweden once. Tahlas05 (talk) 17:12, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Pro-Israel demonstration in South Korea

For Asia - South Korea: “There was a pro-Israel rally held on Tuesday, October 17th in Seoul,South Korea of about 500. “Supporters of Israel took to the streets in Seoul on Tuesday, urging Hamas militants to stop their killing of civilians, as war continues to escalate between the two sides.”

Source: The Korean Herald https://m.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20231017000584 174.88.95.75 (talk) 06:51, 21 December 2023 (UTC)