Talk:Gündüz Alp

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Untitled

can someone change the name to Gunduz Bey* not Gunduz Alp.

Gunduz was elected interim Bey of kayis after dundar bey was shot with an arrow. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.28.82.31 (talk) 22:34, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What sources do you have? Preferably historybooks. It seems that the few sources that exist like [1] use Alp, and WP is meant to follow reliable sources. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:30, 27 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

?

AFAICT, the article currently has no source that says G was son of E. Is there a WP-good one? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:52, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

New edits

Pinging Teavannaa Beshogur Lambiam

108.18.143.93 (consider WP:REGISTER) has rewritten the article with new sources and added a bunch of trees, some of which doesn't mention a Gündüz. Assuming the sources are good, IMO it would be better to summarize Gündüz place in these trees in text instead, and also I'd like in-text info on who is the person who stated this and when was it written. Opinions? You may also want to take a look at Talk:Halime_Hatun#The_mother_of_Osman_Bey. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:03, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like it's taken from Turkish wiki. If you look at Osman I, I added Osman's geneaology by different historians. I'll check these trees later. Also the source is İnalcık. Pretty legit. But will try to check its orginal source, because my Aşıkpaşazade geneaology isn't the same. Beshogur (talk) 22:04, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I like it [2] a lot! I would prefer something similar for this article, with a text summary. Another idea is to collapse the tree-section, with a summary on top. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:01, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sadly didn't find which book it is. It only says 2007. Will keep searching. Btw perhaps we can add some of the trees it to Osman I page? We can also use the sourced I've used [3] here. Beshogur (talk) 20:30, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Beshogur, about the current first sentence. Is that what the refs say? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:13, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Which one? Beshogur (talk) 14:42, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, there are 4, so does the sentence summarize them fairly? Would it be better to add something like, "according to some some sources, but this is disputed" for this WP:LEAD? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:11, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Gündüzalp=Gündüzalp|

(Moved from my/Gråbergs Gråa Sång's talkpage)

There is a misconfusion:

Coins minted by Osman I during his reign, reads "Osman, son of Ertuğrul, son of Gündüz Alp”.^[1] MEANS THAT Osman is the son of Ertuğrul, and Ertuğrul is the son of Gündüz Alp. That implies Gündüz Alp was the father of Ertuğrul and the grandfather of Osman I, the founder of Ottoman Dynasty. Is is expressed as OSMAN bin Ertugrul bin GUNDUZ, that was written on the coin, these ref are clearly tellinh that:^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5] Coins minted by Osman I during his reign, reads "Osman, son of Ertuğrul, son of Gündüz Alp”.^[1]108.18.143.93 (talk) 15:19, 21 June 2020 (UTC)108.18.143.93 (talk) 15:25, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's unclear to me what you want. If you are commenting on this edit [4], it is following what the ref says. However, it is better to discuss that article at Talk:Gündüz Alp. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:23, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

One of Wikipedias many many (many) rules: Don't change your talkpage comments after someone has replied to them. Anyway, this is something you should take to Talk:Gündüz Alp. And consider WP:REGISTER. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:30, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Article already says that Halil İnalcık argues that the latter have confused Süleyman Şah with the grandfather of Gündüz Alp, namely Mir Süleymân Alp.^[2]^[3] A coin which reads "Osman bin Ertuğrul bin Gündüz Alp" supports the view that Gündüz was Ertuğrul's father.^[1]

That's why I'm correcting this in the article as

Gündüz Alp was the father of Ertuğrul (13th century) and the grandfather of Osman I, the founder of Ottoman Dynasty.^[2] 108.18.143.93 (talk) 15:35, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Again, Talk:Gündüz Alp. And several sources disagree. The WP:LEAD is meant to summarize the rest of the article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:38, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ ^a ^b ^c Akgündüz, Ahmed; Öztürk, Said (2011). Ottoman History - Misperceptions and Truths. IUR Press. p. 35. ISBN 978-90-90-26108-9. Retrieved 28 December 2019.
^ ^a ^b ^c İnalcık, Halil (2007). "Osmanlı Beyliği'nin Kurucusu Osman Beg (Osman Beg, The founder of Ottoman Dynasty)". Belleten. 7 (No: 261). Ankara: 487–490. {{cite journal}}: |number= has extra text (help)
^ ^a ^b İnalcık, Halil (2007). OSMAN I (PDF). Vol. 33. İstanbul: TDV İslâm Ansiklopedisi. p. 445. ISBN 978-9-7538-9590-3.
^ İnalcık, Halil, 2007; sf. 487
^ İnalcık, Halil, 2007; sf. 488

Infobox

These are in general meant for simple, well-sourced facts from the article, so the right thing in this case is to leave it almost everything out, perhaps even remove completely. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:14, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Another look

Beshogur Lambiam, other interested. I made an attempt to make the lead more reasonable by moving stuff to a new section, see what you think. There's now some repetition in the 1st and 3rd sections, not quite sure what belongs where. If you feel like taking another look on if the sources are good and the if article is using them correctly, that couldn't hurt. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:15, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hindi

Hindi 106.211.124.198 (talk) 02:05, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The son is not the father.

Sully man shaw the father 162.231.120.111 (talk) 05:30, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Gunzuc

Son 162.231.120.111 (talk) 05:31, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

He Also Told Suleman Shah Or Gunduz.He Don’t know Confirme.Brother This History 1 Thousand Old 2A0C:5A84:3903:2A00:C885:9D25:25:6B23 (talk) 05:40, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[Gündüz-1] Akgündüz, Ahmed; Öztürk, Said (2011). Ottoman History - Misperceptions and Truths. IUR Press. p. 35. ISBN 978-90-90-26108-9. Retrieved 28 December 2019.

[Halil-2] İnalcık, Halil (2007). "Osmanlı Beyliği'nin Kurucusu Osman Beg (Osman Beg, The founder of Ottoman Dynasty)". Belleten. 7 (No: 261). Ankara: 487–490. {{cite journal}}: |number= has extra text (help)

[OsmanI-3] İnalcık, Halil (2007). OSMAN I (PDF). Vol. 33. İstanbul: TDV İslâm Ansiklopedisi. p. 445. ISBN 978-9-7538-9590-3.

[İnalcık=487-4] İnalcık, Halil, 2007; sf. 487

[İnalcık=488-5] İnalcık, Halil, 2007; sf. 488

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