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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Tony Sidaway (talk | contribs) at 03:21, 10 September 2006 (→Khoikhoi's probation rescinded: The motion to rescind Khoikoi's probation passes by 6-0.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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A request for Arbitration is the last step of dispute resolution. Before requesting Arbitration, please review other avenues you should take. If you do not follow any of these routes, it is highly likely that your request will be rejected. If all other steps have failed, and you see no reasonable chance that the matter can be resolved in another manner, you may request that it be decided by the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom).

Dispute resolution
(Requests)
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Content disputes
Conduct disputes
Arbitration Committee proceedings
Request name Motions Initiated Votes
Covert canvassing and proxying in the Israel-Arab conflict topic area   6 November 2024 0/6/0
[edit]
Open cases

Currently, no arbitration cases are open.

[edit]
Recently closed cases (Past cases)
Case name Closed
Yasuke 13 Nov 2024

Currently, no requests for clarification or amendment are open.

No arbitrator motions are currently open.

The Arbitration Committee considers requests to open new cases and (exceptionally) to summarily review new evidence and update the findings and decisions of a previous case. Review is likely to be appropriate if later events indicate the original ruling on scope or enforcement was too limited and does not adequately address the situation, or if new evidence suggests the findings of fact were significantly in error.

The procedure for accepting requests is described in the Arbitration policy. If you are going to make a request here, you must be brief and cite supporting diffs. If your case is accepted for arbitration, the arbitrator or clerk will create an evidence page that you can use to provide more detail. New requests to the top, please. You are required to place a notice on the user talk page of each person against whom you lodge a complaint.

0/0/0/0 corresponds to Arbitrators' votes to accept/reject/recuse/other. Cases are usually opened at least 24 hours after four accept votes are cast. When a case is opened, a notice that includes a link to a newly created evidence page will be posted to each participant's talk page. See the Requests section of the arbitration policy page for details.

This is not a page for discussion, and Arbitrators or Clerks may summarily remove or refactor discussion without comment. Please do not open cases; only an Arbitrator or Clerk may do so.

See also



How to list cases

Under the Current requests section below:

  • Click the "[edit]" tab on the right of the screen appearing above the section break line;
  • Copy the full formatting template (text will be visible in edit mode), omitting the lines which say "BEGIN" and "END TEMPLATE";
  • Paste template text where it says "ADD CASE BELOW";
  • Follow instructions on comments (indented), and fill out the form;
  • Remove the template comments (indented).

Note: Please do not remove or alter the hidden template

Current requests

Case Name

[National Security Council] I am filing a complaint against Bertilvidet for reverting contributions to the above article on 9/9/06 without any respect to the content matter or the quality of a contribution by another party on the same day, but only on the basis of his egotistic territorialism. He, as a non-national antagonist, continously practices similar behaviour on a number of Turkey and Turkish related articles, related to Turkish institutions, both military and non-military, enforcing his political opinions with ethnic and cultural bias with the purpose of degradation. Attempts to restore objectivity and fair and valuable knowledge content in the articles that are majorly distorted with his political commentaries have repeatedly been a failure because of his unexplainable obsessive reversals of the content matter as well as his solitacion of performing the same vandalism on his behalf by some other cooperating buddies such as the user Khoikhoi. A smilar and serious prevention on their part of the improvement of the content matter took place on August 18, 2006 at the article National Security Council (Turkey), violating Wikipedia rules enforcing no reversal by the same administrator recurrently, in addition to not allowing any other party to contribute to those article s in a fair way. They did not only fail to recognize the contibutions in good faith but collectively called fair changes 'vandalism' to maintain their hegemony. I sincerely hope you will be able to prevent them continuing with this kind of disruptive behaviour. Thank you for your time and support in advance.

Statement by party 1

Statement by party 2

(Please limit your statement to 500 words. Overlong statements may be removed without warning by clerks or arbitrators and replaced by much shorter summaries. Remember to sign and date your statement.)

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/0/0/0)

New anti-Semitism

Initiated by Tony Sidaway at 02:53, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

  • Seems to be a huge amount of bad blood over editing on the article New anti-Semitism. Perhaps arbitration would be advisable in order to forestall further ugliness.

Prior dispute resolution

Statement by User:Tony Sidaway

I'm not really involved in this but I'm sure I'm not the only one seeing some extremely ugly interactions between some of my colleagues, all of whom are extremely highly respected members of the community. In my limited perception and experience the dispute seems to revolve around perceived ownership issues over this article. Jayjg and SlimVirgin have put a tremendous amount of effort into this article but there seems to be a widespread and possibly defensible perception that they are permitting their personal biases to intrude into the editing. Because of personal criticism on the basis of this perception, interactions have become rather unfriendly. --Tony Sidaway 02:53, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by party 2

(Please limit your statement to 500 words. Overlong statements may be removed without warning by clerks or arbitrators and replaced by much shorter summaries. Remember to sign and date your statement.)


Statement by User:Bastique

I made three edits to the article as a whole and several comments on the talk page. Having limited involvement, I unblocked Netscott after consulting with other admins because the block was vindictive and only applied to him. I was harangued for this, and reacted to what I felt was complete hypocracy. Netscott and anyone else who disagrees with the "owners" of this article (including User:Humus sapiens and User:Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg, who have not been named and others with whom I'm not familiar) are bullied into rash behavior, because of the frustration in dealing with the volume of activity from a singularly unified POV-pushing. People with moderate viewpoints, like myself, are completely dismissed, being told they know nothing about the issue. SlimVirgin--or anyone in a position of power--should not be connected to any article on which they have a strong, one-sided view. It prevents neutrality and balance, and makes editors who are less likely to edit war completely unwilling to participate. Bastique▼parler voir 14:36, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by User:Netscott

Having personally been involved with trying to edit this article and having had little success in having my good faith edits be adopted due primarily to the efforts of SlimVirgin and Jayjg, I can attest that the characterization of "ownership" relative to this article (particularly by User:SlimVirgin) is very appropriate. I encourage the arbitration committee to take this case so that remedies relative to this problem can be instituted. I will be able to provide evidence of this "ownership" as well as other users' (not currently mentioned here) characterizations regarding this article. (→Netscott) 09:41, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/0/0/0)

Emil Kraepelin

Initiated by londheart at 06:14, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

Etaonsh (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

84.174.220.23 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Editor seeks to update take on outdated early psychatrist, only to face revert war by angry opponent lacking clear ID.

Statement by londheart

84.174.220.23 defends and protects the reputation of scary, outdated psychiatrist Kraepelin as if his inheritance depended on it. He hides behind a lack of clear ID which he justifies by saying something to the effect of 'a weirdo like you might come and get me otherwise.' He appears to have eternity to get involved in revert war and discussion of this largely forgotten but still influential historical figure, resulting in a biased article where the critical perspective is eliminated. --londheart 06:51, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by 84.174.214.35

Emil Kraepelin was an eminent figure in the history of psychiatry and psychology as medical and scholarly disciplines, as a brief glance at the common sources, even those critical of Kraepelin, show: German Wikipedia entry, Kraepelin Society (based in the US; English website), biography (pdf), [1].

This page was changed (I would say vandalized) by londheart in an exclusively malicious and defamatory way, going so far as to blame the Holocaust on him. I have, since then, reverted his extremely POV entries - nothing more; I have not added anything, and I had also not been involved in this entry before. Commenting on my very first edit, londhart called me repeatedly a Nazi for doing so and has engaged in confused hate speech on a level that strongly implies mental problems. Because this was clear from the beginning (see also his track record of vandalizing other psychiatry entries, especially those associated with schizophrenia), I am not using an account here other than the IP number, because I genuinely believe that londheart has serious e-stalking potential. (I know that this is not the preferred wiki way of doing things, but so far it is still legitimate per policy.) I think londheart's statement above is ample proof of that; if not, check out the Kraepelin discussion (in which I also got carried away, but who wouldn't be under these circumstances?) and his own talk page.

As for the facts of the article, I have frequently offered to let londheart's changes stand if he would produce any references or scholarly proof for his claims, and naturally I am still willing to do so, but he has completely ignored that and refused to provide any evidence - it is just that he "feels" that Kraepelin is "sinister", "evil" etc. Even here in the Statement, he calls him "outdated early psychatrist," "scary, outdated psychiatrist", "largely forgotten but still influential historical figure" (what now? either or). I think that londheart genuinely hates Kraepelin (probably for imagined reasons) and should desist, or be made desist, from further dealing with this article. 84.174.214.35 08:54, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is it customary for me to reply at this point? I do have a reply, but I am trying to stay within the rules, here. But, anyway, 84.174.214.35's replies are so disproportionately long lately that it seems to undermine discussion, like a sort of filibustering technique. Some of us have other things to do while he reaches these crescendoes of 'superior insight' (e.g., it is my mother's funeral today). Does he really think that there isn't enough material for the arbitrators to be going on with, at this point, with the article page and the talk page as they stand, without pursuing his verbose, imprecise orations here?
It is not, of course, unreasonable to trace historical links between an early, somewhat discredited, German, clinicalising diagnostician and Nazi eugenics. --londheart 09:48, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, londheart, that is what happens if person and persona are collapsed into each other... I still believe your are completely wrong and your behavior is (probably) unexcusable as regards Kraepelin, but I am a Camusian, and I think that the death of your mother (if true, but the risk here is too great that it is) is in the end - not within wikipedia, but by the standards of the world of which it is part - more important than to be right on Kraepelin. My sincere condolences, and - although it might sound cynical what I say now, I mean it - if it makes you feel better, go ahead and change the Kraepelin all the way you want. I will, under these circumstances, not touch your edits anymore. To the arbitration committee: From my perspective, this case is closed, and I yield to londheart. 84.174.222.13 11:31, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your condolences, but there may be, in some sense life after death. She was a very argumentative person.
I answer your point about Camus on the article's talk page.
Right now I'm feeling more offended by the way the 'Clerk' User:MacGyverMagic is kind of crapping shallowly on the situation after all the work we have each put into this debate. --londheart 14:25, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I still haven't had an answer to my original question above, while User:MacGyverMagic ploughs on regardless, somewhat impolitely I feel. It really seems limp, also, to refute the fact that, from an up-to-date scientific perspective, a psychiatrist might indeed be 'scary/outdated.' --londheart 16:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved User:MacGyverMagic

(moved from clerk notes section because this comment was not made in my position as a clerk)
I would like to ask the arbitration committee to accept this case in order to investigate violations of WP:NPOV by londheart (instead of the underlying content dispute). Clearly calling someone a "scary, outdated psychiatrist Kraepelin" as he did above isn't inline with policy. Refusing to provide reliable sources also violates the verifiability policy. He said User:84.174.220.23 was trying to overwhelm the talk page with long responses but that should be no reason to not respond to the simple query 84.174.220.23 made during this arbitration. I find it especially inappropriate that his behavior apparently deterred 84.174.220.23 from keeping an article neutral.

If you do not wish to accept, I would like the arbcom to strongly recommend londheart to adhere to WP:NPOV and WP:V. - Mgm|(talk) 12:18, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved User:JzG

I agree with Mgm here, that although this is a lame edit war it is one in which Etaonsh (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log), aka Londhart has clearly failed to grasp the principles of our policies on neutrality, verifiability and original research. A review of the edit history of the article under dispute shows a succession of edits which turn an encyclopaedia article into a soapbox:

  • with [2], Etaonshintroduces the unsupported assertion that Kraeplin while arguably succeeding in raising the profile and status of psychiatric science, abused his status as a natural scientist to introduce unscientific, circular theories of a kind endemic in his day into a vulnerable young science still suffering, to this day, from his influence at least as much as benefiting by it.
  • [3] sees 84.174.214.35 reverting just that paragraph
  • [4] sees Etaonsh reinserting the POV statement with the grossly offensive edit summary "Reverting POV rvt by anonymous Nazi and other POV garbage"
  • [5], the next edit, has Etaonsh's edit summary "Pursuing revert war against anonymous Nazi"
  • [6] Etaonsh introduces the idea that the subject might be held responsible for the Holocaust.
  • [7] shows similarly tendentious editing to Eugen Bleuler (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
  • Charls Butler (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) is a monograph by Etaonsh and shows his style: it is laudatory in tone, makes extravagant claims but lacks any sources. This may be due to the highly restricted availability of Butler's books, at least one of which was a private printing for the author and exists only in very small numbers in university libraries (this does not necessarily indicate a problem with the subject, Robert Gunther also had his magnum opus privately printed).
  • [8] shows a discussion with some very curious assertions of some kind of conspiracy over problems adding (uncited) content to another article
  • [9] demonstrates a classic response of the frutrated to WP:NOR - namely, disputing its validity. Since this predates the incident at this article, it cannot be said that Etaonsh is or was unaware of policy in this regard.

Overall, Etaonsh / Londhart gives every appearance of strong opinions and shows no obvious signs of accepting admonitions to moderate his approach - a textbook case of tendentious editing. Guy 15:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Addition by Mgm

After perusing Etaonsh's talkpage I also found this edit which I believe JzG hasn't listed yet. I consider describing a user as a "Welsh practising homosexual", when it is done with the intent to discredit their credibility or judgement, a personal attack even when the words are taken from their own userpage. - Mgm|(talk) 21:59, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)


Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (1/1/0/0)

Splash's unsemiprotects

Initiated by Cyde Weys at 01:50, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Splash notified
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried
This is too urgent to wait for two or three weeks at RFC.

Splash has been repeatedly unsemiprotecting high-profile articles and then forgetting about them, resulting in repeated vandalism that other people have had to clean up.

Statement by Cyde Weys

Steve Irwin recently died. Since then, his article and the related article stingray, which have been linked from the front page, have been repeatedly and viciously vandalized by anonymous users, to the point that vandalism to Steve Irwin was picked up by the largest media outlet in Australia. In the span of 31 hours Splash unsemiprotected both Steve Irwin and Stingray four times. Each time he simply unsemiprotected and walked away, not bothering to monitor to ensure that the vandalism wasn't returning (it was). By the fourth time you're unsemiprotecting an article that has been repeatedly vandalized every previous time it was unsemiprotected, you had better be watching it like a hawk to quickly remove vandalism and be prepared to reprotect it if necessary. But Splash wasn't. Here, we see Stingray being vandalized anonymously soon after Splash's unsemiprotection, but apparently Splash had already turned his attention elsewhere. Here we see penis insertion and other miscellaneous vandalism following Splash's unsemiprotection. Splash's only edits to the articles were repeatedly removing the {{sprotected}} tag after he repeatedly unsemiprotected them. This behavior is utterly inappropriate and places Wikipedia's reputation in real harm, as the news story from ABC indicates. I tried to get Splash to understand, but his responses on his talk page have just been combative and have displayed no cognizance of why over half a dozen other admins think what he is doing is reckless and wrong.

It wouldn't bother me so much if Splash was actually being responsible with his admin tools and carefully watching the pages he had just unsemiprotected to guard against vandalism, but he appears to simply not care. Splash was also informed about many OTRS complaints about penis vandalism on Steve Irwin, but he shrugged them off too. The article on Steve Irwin is our number one article right now and it is getting 1,000 views per minute on a 24 hour average (according to Greg, who has access to such sampling data). Thousands of readers have turned to that article only to see a penis or other vandalism, solely because of Splash. It's time for this administrator to face the responsibility that comes with the position. Splash is engaging in wheel warring, and to boot, he is effectively aiding and abetting vandalism by repeatedly stripping Wikipedia of necessary protections on the article of a man who just died and allowing in high-profile, vicious vandalism that demonstrably puts Wikipedia in disrepute. Many of us have lost faith in Splash's ability to exercise proper judgement in his use of admin tools, especially unprotection. Also, I would ask for a temporary injunction to prevent Splash from unprotecting any pages during the duration of this arbitration. --Cyde Weys 01:50, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Splash

Cyde seems over-excited here. El_C has helpfully documented the series of talk page messages; those messages to me were Cyde's only edits during that period: apparently he was logging in specifically to make threats without actually checking to see if I was actually doing anything. In between those edits, I suppose he must have been working up the rage that led him here. Seems a little bit vociferious to me. I thought his final message was interesting: "Per your continuing lack of any cognizance...", as if there is any remedy for my hypothetical idiocy. Even the desysopping he craves wouldn't make me any cleverer, but it would make me markedly less useful (or maybe it would give me some article-writing time).

The notion that I am the sole cause of the vandalism is really pretty overblown, since it wasn't me doing any of it. Sure, I allowed people to edit the article. Vandalism is part of that deal. The statistics posted on my talk page show that 54% of semi-protectable edits to the page were allowed to stand; I'll take the credit for making sure we got them if I'm to take the blame for the bad ones too. There is no counterweight to the terrifying scrolling of the list of questionable edits in IRC; the bots and vandalfighters only see half (or, specifically, 46%) of the story.

It's not a wheel war. Protection naturally has cycles, and on Main Paged articles it is naturally shorter than in the depths of the encyclopedia. Indeed, this is evidenced by the fact that (count 'em [10]) 7 other admins did unprotects on Steve Irwin, not counting those that look accidental. It wasn't a war, it was natural cyclicity. I for one can tell the difference.

Those who think I ran away after unprotecting are speculating. In fact, try as I might (for only a few minutes, granted) I was beaten to the reverts on both articles: I don't have access to the IRC channels (I refuse to ask permission to vandal fight) and there's simply no matching it with diff watching, or Special:Recentchanges. I didn't persist in an unnecessary operation; it was under control.

There's the key: under control. OTRS beholds the project to the most complaining sector of the internet population, even assuming all 36 emails were actually complaints, and whacking semi-protection on anything someone vandalises from the Main Page beholds the project to the lowest common denominator rather than the high ideals that underlie the project. I'll take the latter; Cyde can play with the former. The project is big enough and ugly enough and popular enough and good enough to face down any negative press (and anyway, the article Cyde is in some awe of is pretty good for us, I thought, saying how quickly everything was repaired).

Ansell's comment here is interesting: that he doesn't remember such vandalism in his time is because he doesn't remember a time when George W. Bush was freely editable, either. -Splash - tk 14:44, 6 September 2006 (UTC) (Excluding these parentheses, MS Word tells me my count is 498.)[reply]

Statement by (mostly) uninvolved party, Konstable

First of all I would like to say that my only involvement in this was being the first user to suggest to Splash that the page should be re-protected due to the heavy number of edits including a heavy number of vandal edits. He replied on my talk page and I made no futher attempts to argue with him or persuade him. And of course I am not an admin so I was not involved in the wheel wars. So I consider myself to be uninvolved.

The vandalism was heavy with unprotection, and the high edit rate making it hard to revert without edit conflicts or accidentally overriding other editors. I personally think semi-protection is quite important for extreme cases like these, whether it is on the main page or not. I did find Splash's unprotection disruptive to users trying to keep the page from turning into an unreadable mess, or worse into a penis gallery instead of an article on a respected man whose fans have been flocking to the site to read about him. In fact vandalism of this page has been featured in the media. I do find it concerning that while Splash was keen enough to unprotect pages against the will of other admins he was not so keen to help with the vandalism. For Stingray Splash has unprotected the page 3 times but has not reverted a single vandalist edit on that page! Same goes for Steve Irwin - 3 unprotectes and NO help with reverting vandalism.

However, even though I think Splash has made some mistakes of judgement here I don't see how this warrants a Request for Arbitration, rather than an RfC, nor do I see why this is an urgent issue as Cyde has put it. I think more effort could have been put into other, more peaceful, solutions to this problem.--Konstable 04:09, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Quick addendum. I thought I should eloborate on my final paragraph a bit more. Though he's made bad errors, I think Splash has acted in a civil way throughout this afair; he has never yelled at anyone and has always explained his reasoning - so I don't see him as being an unreasonable person at all. Perhaps brash, maybe a bit stubborn, but not unreasonable. I honestly think an RfC, or another debate other than Arbitration, would get more oppinions and perhaps give Splash a better picture of what the community thinks of his actions. I personally don't think any punitive actions are needed against him.--Konstable 04:19, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Kelly Martin

We have received, at OTRS, not fewer than 36 complaints regarding vandalism to either Steve Irwin or Stingray in the past two days. Given that Steve Irwin is getting at least 240 views per minute and Stingray at least 100 views per minute averaged over the past five days (a very conservative estimate based on data from Wikicharts), even a short period of vandalism exposes large numbers of unsuspecting readers to inappropriate content. Semiprotection of these articles is essential to ensure that our readers are not subjected to useless or offensive content. Splash's repeated unprotections of these articles are plainly contrary to our primary goal of providing a useful encyclopedic reference. His actions are irresponsible and must stop. If he refuses to voluntarily stop unprotecting high-traffic articles which are actively attracting vandalism, the Committee has no choice but to remove his ability to unprotect articles. I join Cyde in the call for a temporary injunction, and urge that that injunction be worded such that any violation will result in immediate desysoping. Kelly Martin (talk) 02:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by El_C

Splash un-protected Steve Irwin three times and protected it once. The last two un/protection actions are as follows: On Sept. 4, at 17:54, he un-protects the entry; on Sept. 5, at 14:06, he protects it. [11] On Sept. 5, at 14:48, Cyde writes on Splash's talk page to cease and desist unprotecting Steve Irwin at once. [12] Splash's second reply, at 20:07, reads: you seem confused. I haven't used my unprotect button since your last visit here. [13] Cyde's next edit on Splash's talk page, at 21:51, is the filing of this RfAr [14] El_C 07:00, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Haukur

Quoth Cyde: "Thousands of readers have turned to that article only to see a penis or other vandalism, solely because of Splash." I think you have to assume that the vandals play some roll in causing this too :) More seriously, Splash has worked for a long time on making sure articles aren't unnecessarily protected. Protection and semi-protection is often applied prematurely or left to linger too long and very few admins are active in cleaning that up. It's also worth noting that Splash basically wrote the semi-protection policy. [15] Sure, maybe he got slightly overzealous in the case under question but it must be viewed in the context of his overall work on this issue. Haukur 09:37, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by uninvolved MacGyverMagic

As can be seen in Splash's protection log, he did these unprotections because he believes articles should be editable as per wiki ideology. However, doing this to high-profile articles that are subject to repeat vandalism to the point it gets picked up in the media is a serious lapse of judgement. If the Arbcom decides to take punitive action, I would suggest using a suspended sentence. - Mgm|(talk) 09:52, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Followup to MgM and Kelly Martin, by El_C

I urge against punitive action anywhere on Wikipedia, whose enforecment ideals should be based upon preventative measures. I also urge to tone down needlessly polemical, aggressive, and generally prosecutorial comments, such as the ones evoked by Kelly Martin's comment (my own impression), especially if the basis for the concerns are as isolated as they currently appear to be. El_C 11:15, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Sjakkalle

The Irwin article was linked to from the Main Page, and that is more a reason to not protect than to protect. That the article was dealing with a current event and might need a number of updates during the day also suggests that protection has some very real negatives. To compare, the daily featured article is not supposed to be protected, something I learned about a year ago. (My apologies to Raul if I'm using his post to argue for something he disagrees with.) An article like this is naturally going to be subject to a lot of vandalism, along with a lot of other high-profile articles, but RC-patrollers usually catch and revert attacks against these articles pretty quickly. All in all, I support Splash's desire and endeavours to keep these articles as unprotected as possible and certainly would not call them irresponsible. Sjakkalle (Check!) 12:00, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Ansell

As I have been involved in this on Splash's talk page I feel I should comment on the matter. [16] [17] [18] [19] I feel that the user was acting in good faith, although possibly not fully understanding the consequences of their actions. The article was experiencing the highest sustained level of viewing and editing that I have ever seen on Wikipedia. To unprotect it, and instantly bring multiple vandalism edits per minute, mixed up with good faith efforts to improve the article, was misguided to say the best of the action. My suggestion for full protection to enable cleanup during the worst period was strongly dismissed, and in hindsight it may not have been the best idea. Also, I had been against protecting due to an edit war on Stingray at a similar time.[20] So I am guilty of a similar viewpoint in relation to at least the Stingray article. In summary I would say that if in doubt go with reality, not a wiki-philosophy. Ansell 12:34, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Statement by not-that-involved The Land

I think this is mainly an issue about semiprotection policy and the balance to be struck between damage from protection and damage from vandalism. Splash seems to have acted against a consensus of other admins (which, on IRC, I was vocally calling for) that those pages should remain sprotected for a while but i nthe circumstances this is more RfC material than RfAr. The Land 21:10, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Reply
If you'll forgive me a small amount of threading (I prefer threading to keep things with their context):
  • I wasn't on IRC and had no idea, until this very moment, that the mythical consensus beast had magically appeared there. Being vociferous is merely modish; it's the only way to get your LOLs and /me toos, and the more vociferous a user is, the more people tend to big them up.
  • Seven (7) other admins, at a pessimistic minimum, have also unprotected Steve Irwin. So there were plenty of people unprotecting it as well; which fact rather dissolves the mythical consensus beast back to whence it came. -Splash - tk 21:50, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I agree about the dangers of groupthink on IRC - however there is quite a lot of discussion about Sprotection on the talk page, including various users and IPs saying 'please keep this page protected', and at least one section mainly provided by a group of admins saying 'we all think this page should stay sprotected'. I can't see anyone contributing to the discussion from the other side of the argument on the talk page. I know the matter was raised on your talk page as well.
In any case, I'm saying this because I think it's important we have a clearer semiprotection policy, not because I'm silly enough to think you or anyone else should be put to any further trouble because of their actions surrounding the article. The Land 09:50, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by uninvolved Rx StrangeLove

Uninvolved, but this ArbCom request seems pretty thin. During the time that Splash was active on Steve Irwin (11:21, 4 September-18:06, 5 September) it was unprotected 10 times. Splash was responsible for 3 of those unprotections. Six other admins unprotected the page a total of seven times during that same time period, for exactly the same reason that Splash did. Splash's only action on Steve Irwin after Cyde's first message on Splash's talk page was to protect it. a single unprotection.

When Cyde wrote "Cease and desist unprotecting Steve Irwin at once." at 18:48, 5 September, Splash had protected Steve Irwin at 18:06, 5 September...42 minutes before Cyde wrote that message. In fact, it had been nearly a full day since Splash had unprotected the page. Cyde quite correctly points out below that Splash unprotected the page at this point in time, I was misled by the log entry (Splash (Talk | contribs | block) protected Steve Irwin). I think though that the point is still valid since by that point it had been 20 hours since Splash had performed any (un)protection action on the page.

Requests for Arbitration are the last step of dispute resolution. There are certainly times when that process needs to be short circuited but this isn't one of them. Splash is a long time productive editor, and an admin in good standing acting in good faith. Accusations that Splash is solely responsible for the vandalism is absurd, as is the claim that he is wheel warring. Plenty of other admins were acting in a similar way. Whatever actions that caused this filing had ended before the request was even written up, and have not been repeated. I'm especially concerned about the bare-knuckled calls from several editors here for de-sysopping, I think that is wildly inappropriate and I ask that this request be rejected. Rx StrangeLove 09:45, 7 September 2006 (UTC) [reply]

Response

Your claim of "Splash had protected Steve Irwin at 18:06, 5 September..." is factually incorrect. Actually, he did indeed unprotect it; you just aren't reading the logs correctly. He changed it from (semi|full) to (none|full), which is unprotecting by any definition of the word. --Cyde Weys 18:15, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by uninvolved Nlu

The ability to semi-protect an article exists for a reason. If an admin is obsessed about lifting semi-protection a very brief time after semi-protection was put in place properly on an article, the capability might as well not exist. Remember that arbitration is not meant to punish, and I think in this case the ArbCom should step in to get some order back into when/how an admin should lift semi-protection. --Nlu (talk) 10:04, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by uninvolved abakharev

There was obviously no bad faith in Splash un-semiprotection, he was just upholding our policies. The policy of not protecting any article linked to the main page maybe outdated and indeed something like this may be desired. I do not think that WP:RfAR is the best place to discuss such a policy . Thus, I propose to reject the request and transfer the policy discussions elsewhere abakharev 08:32, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by uninvolved Woohookitty

I publicly disagreed with Splash on this case (even though I'm usually on his side re: Semi protection), but this is just ridiculous. He made the decision to unprotect with good faith. Did I agree with him in this case? No. But you know what? You can always then reprotect the article. And that's what happened. So Splash let what...maybe 100 vandalism edits it by doing this? And what? The entire encyclopedia is going to crash because of it?? I don't see the big deal. I think it's overblown. Dispute resolution wasn't even really attempted here. Reject this case. Please. --Woohookitty(meow) 13:26, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)

 Clerk note: Please avoid posting responses directly to statements by other users as this may be confusing. --Ryan Delaney talk 20:17, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (1/1/0/0)

  • This is a difficult issue. I respect the balance that Splash is seeking to bring to the use of semiprotection, which is in and of itself undesirable. Conversely, I respect other users' attempts to prevent vandalism and damage to Wikipedia's reputation. All in all, I see no evidence of bad faith here: all parties are seeking the best for Wikipedia. I suggest personally to Splash that it would probably be best to let the incident lessen in prominence before desemiprotecting, but that is only my opinion :-). Reject. Sam Korn (smoddy) 11:28, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Accept Fred Bauder 17:46, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ghirlandajo

Initiated by Cowman109Talk at 16:52, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Statement by Cowman109

Ghirlandajo has been consistently incivil towards other editors in his time here on Wikipedia and has made personal attacks as shown in the above RFC, has engaged in tendentious editing per the above Mediation Cabal cases and has recently trolled and provoked editors as shown by WP:ANI#Ghirlandajo. Also, another accusation is that he is making use of meatpuppets, such that many users come to defend him and support him in content disputes and other arguments. It also seems that wherever he goes, a certain group of users always supports him in content and user disputes, of note being Ghirlandajo's interactions with Polish users, as shown by the last ANI archive link, in particular Piotrus.

As an addendum, it seems that Ghirlandajo has failed to assume good faith of other editors he comes in conflict with, which promotes a negative environment between him and other editors. The responses to the recent ANI report also appear consistent with his behavior - if anything, it would have been better to simply leave the situation alone instead of further patronising other editors with the attitude that he is above them for his article contributions. If he would have liked to contest this block, it could have been much more civil to calmly ask for a review of the block instead of trolling with comments such as "When a stranger comes to WP:ANI and asks to block a well-established contributor... and he gets instantly blocked by a person whom that contributor criticised an hour ago... well, it is called... Wiki-justice, apparently. --Ghirla -трёп- 22:55, 5 September 2006 (UTC). I stand by my beliefs that his interactions with users are highly innapropriate for the encyclopedia, and while a block may not be in order, it needs to be made clear that his attitude towards other editors is innapropriate. Cowman109Talk 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Piotrus

This arbitration is a suprise to me. To the best of my recollection I am not currently involved with any edit disputes with either Ghirlandajo or Cowman109, although for the record I had been involved in some major disputes with Ghirlandajo in the past. I can offer my comments in the current Ghirlandajo-Cowman dispute, as well as discuss my past experiences with Ghirla, and on the possible solution (I have thought about ArbRequest against Ghirla in the past) but as there is no current Ghirlandajo-Piotrus dispute I am not sure if I classify as an 'involved party'.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  17:06, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved party Grafikm_fr

I find this arbitration a bit quick, surprising and intempestive. Ghirla and Piotrus have been involved in a lot of disputes in the past, but the trend is clearly cooling down (as confirmed by Piotrus himself). For instance, Piotrus recently praised Ghirla for a well-written article on a Russo-Polish war, which is something rather new[21]. In any case, conflicts now follow a rather well-established DR scheme and there is no reasons to take it further. As for the recent thread on WP:ANI, it does not even remotely qualify for ArbCom.

In the light of what I and Piotrus said, I suggest that our Arbitrators dismiss this case and return the respective parties to already existing DR processes. After almost a year of quite lengthy and often disruptive processes (which incidentally saw some of the main protagonists blocked) things are finally return to normal. Let's not start the fire again please. -- Grafikm (AutoGRAF) 17:15, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Addenum 1: You will note that on ANI WP:ANI#Ghirlandajo, very few users find his remarks to be incivil. Angry, yes, but not incivil. Only Tony and Dmc find them so. By the way, both should recuse themselves from the case... -- Grafikm (AutoGRAF) 01:28, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Response to Ideogram: "Ghirlandajo has driven many editors away from Wikipedia"? Do you have any proof of that? -- Grafikm (AutoGRAF) 12:30, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Response to Ideogram #2: "Are you now going to argue that Ghirlandajo is kind and welcoming towards those he disagrees with, that he attracts more and better editors to the project?" First Ideogram, I find your phrase is bordering on procès d'intention and is quite disturbing. Second, Piotrus is witness, I warned Ghirla many times about his behavior. Point is, things are cooling down (well, they were before that sordid RFA affair) and that's why this Arbitration is intempestive. Putting more gaz in the fire won't solve things. -- Grafikm (AutoGRAF) 13:09, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved party Giano

Ghirlandajo can be abrupt and curt. He does not mince his words. He is however a huge asset to this encyclopedia, and the links provided by Cowman 109 at WP:ANI#Ghirlandajo as reason to bring this case, do not in my view prove anything

  • [22] A comment on a very contentious piece of Wikipedia history.
  • [23] A comment on my talk page mentioning no names just his view of a situation
  • [24] Again a view and a recommendation
  • [25] Yet again his view, no insults or obscenities.
  • [26] Some people may even call this wise advice.
  • [27] No one is singled out, again he states a view - no more.
  • [28] He expresses his view
  • [29] He concurs on a contentious matter with another editor, in this case me.
  • [30] And yet again he concurs with other editors.
  • [31] I cannot imagine why this dif is even listed. It is his view in a legitimate forum for expressing it.

In all the above links, Ghirlandajo has done no more than robustly express his opinion, which he is at liberty to do. That he does not do so in the language of an 18th century courtier at Versailles may be regretted by some, but there is no Wiki-law that says this has to be so. He uses no insults, or obscenities overall he seems to feel the system is at fault, and the overriding message is that of a good wikipedian anxious to do what he considers his best for the project

I submit that on the evidence provided by Cowman 109, Ghirlandajo has no case to answer. Cowman's statement "It also seems that wherever he goes, a certain group of users always supports him in content and user disputes" is meaningless - and has, I think, no business here. The reasons for bringing this case have been given, it would be wrong to keep digging and trying to find others. Evidence for bringing the case has been brought and it is in my view inconclusive unless to be a little brusqe is a crime Giano | talk 10:45, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Further to my statement I would like to make the following observations. This is a preliminary hearing to see if the charges brought by Cowman 109 are worth following. The arbcom may or may not feel the evidence he has presented worth further investigation.

However, not since the days of the inquisition have others then been allowed to turn up with further charges. This is contrary to every judicial system in the civilized world. People cannot just pop into a court room where a man is being tried for an murder and say "Oh yes, by the way, on his holiday in Minsk in 1989 he stole a policeman's whistle".

Some people may feel Tony Sidaway, Ideogram, and Renata should confine their comment to the evidence presented, and that they have had ample opportunity to begin a case themselves, but for their own reasons have decided not to. Some people may construe their actions to be jumping on the bandwagon, or even kicking a man when he is down. What ever their agenda it could smack of medieval justice. Such behaviour would not be allowed in any modern western court room.

The interchanges between Ideogram and those defending Ghirlandajo in a modern court of law, would be regarded as prosecuting council, a role he has assumed, badgering a witness before commencement of trial. This would cause the trial to be abandoned and Ideogram to be held in contempt of court.

The above is merely an observation of how Wikipedia justice differs from that in Europe and North America. Giano | talk 18:41, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And this leads me to beleive [32] further comment is futile. The expression "For God;s sake" springs to mind. Giano | talk 07:11, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • To answer Mackensen's query the case concerns the points brought her by Cowman, see links above. However the case now seems to have been hijacked by Tony Sidaway who is going off on tangents unconnected to the case. His points should be dismissed in order that Ghilandajo can be judged fairly here. They are unconnected to this case. Giano | talk 07:30, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by User:Ghirlandajo

I don't recall to have ever interacted with User:Cowman109. I don't remember him expressing any specific concerns on my talk. He never applied for mediation or comments of my behaviour which seemed questionable to him, to the best of my knowledge. In short, I fail to see in what am I being accused and by who. Unless it is explained what this case is about, I will not contribute to this arbitration. Please don't bother me, I have articles to write and not to discuss something of which I have no idea with someone who I don't know. Thanks, Ghirla -трёп- 18:40, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Since I posted the above statement, User:Tony Sidaway came up with a statement against myself. It is instructive that when the issue was discussed on WP:ANI yesterday, no commentator except Tony Sidaway identified my comments as "inflammatory and grossly incivil". Others qualified them as "to the point", "slightly angry", and "just". Furthermore, the first time I mentioned him in my about 50,000 edits was an hour before that, when I posted this comment about the controversial re-promotion of Carnildo. Two hours later Tony Sidaway blocked me, citing that very edit as a pretext. Exhilarating, isn't it? After that, he returned to the RfA page and noted with satisfaction that "the noisy opponents of the RfA are now in the minority". Of course, Tony Sidaway didn't discuss the matter with me because he just came and blocked me immediately after reading my criticism. Did it never occur to him that gratuitous blocks of well-established contributors serve no other rational purpose than radicalizing them? It is notheworthy that in the same diffs I expressed criticism of ArbCom and Kelly Martin over Carnildo's re-promotion. The same day, Kelly Martin was quick to express her unconditional support for Tony's actions, while someone who I don't know launched an arbitration case. Well, I'm forced to give up the subject, as I was threatened with further blocks if I continue to question the validity of his behaviour. The whole affair seems to me like an attempt at revenge for my dissident opinions, which is also a nice pretext for dormant ghirlaphobes from all quarters to add their 2 cents here. --Ghirla -трёп- 07:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I feel obliged to respond to Renata's statement. As a member of the Lithuanian community, she is entitled to protect it from inroads made by Russian editors. I cannot help thinking that her statement was motivated by my yesterday's edit, which led to some rewriting of Grand Duchy of Lithuania, an article about a predominantly Slavic and Orthodox medieval state. This is a purely content dispute which has been caused by the fact that articles about Lithuanian history contain some extreme statements concerning Russian history. We have been over this mined ground over and over again. I'm sorry that Renata uses this page as an equivalent of an RfC. It is not fair to deny me an opportunity to explain my own edits in detail, especially as many diffs pertain to the articles written by myself. It would have been more helpful if she had discussed what she feels problematic about my behaviour on my talk page or on the article's talk page or on RfC, rather than bringing it up for the first time on this page. --Ghirla -трёп- 07:13, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The latest accusations are so wildly different, that I fail to see anything in common between them. These are two separate cases. I remember to have had a content dispute with User:Mzajac last year, but I don't think that I have interacted with him after the ArbCom's decision concerning the subject matter of that old RfC. If we had some disputes recently or I was incivil towards Mzajac this year, I await diffs to refresh my memory. I may say for myself that I have avoided pages edited by Mzajac, knowing him for an exceedingly delicate editor who tends to overre-act to my edits. The difference of our characters is no basis for arbitration. Fred's accusation that User:Wiglaf left Wikipedia last year because of my disagreement with some of his more extreme views struck me speechless. I strongly advise to review the history of his relations with User:Molobo and his joint actions with User:Shauri, with whom I had never met in Wikipedia (cf. this and this), before making such sweeping accusations. I think that Wiglaf, with all his shortcomings, is irreplacable as an editor. I was involved in one slowly dragging content dispute with him (as User:Dbachmann may testify) but I don't recall any evidence of incivility or personal attacks there.

I was urged to trim my statement and therefore commented out my lengthy response to User:Ideogram, as the issue seems to have been settled, anyway. Since I can't see a common denominator between so many unsubstantiated accusations on seemingly unrelated matters and since I don't know which one is the main basis for this case, I follow the example of Pecher, Geogre, ALoan, and R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine), among others, and take a break until the next week in order to sort out my attitudes towards the project and all the bad blood that has characterized it of late. I shall return to this page when I understand what's going on here. --Ghirla -трёп- 21:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by User:Tony Sidaway

In response to Mackensen's plea for clarity, I'll put this case into a nutshell.

Ghirlandajo's ongoing behavior casts Wikipedia in divisive terms. Pole against Russian [33], himself against "aberrant" bureaucrats [34], himself (again) against "Carnildo's [bureaucrat] buds" [35], editors against administrators [36]. The problematic behavior seems to have a long history and is not strictly related to any one incident. I think there is a behavioral problem that needs to be remedied in the interests of the encyclopedia.
Similar cases of a disruptive rabble-rousing polemicist who is also widely regarded as a good editor have come before the arbitration committee before, most notably in the Alienus case.
"Wikipedia is not a place to hold grudges, import personal conflicts, or nurture hatred or fear. Making personal battles out of Wikipedia discussions goes directly against our policies and goals." (What Wikipedia is not) --Tony Sidaway 01:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by User:Ideogram

I first encountered Ghirlandajo in the course of mediating cases for Medcabal. He was edit-warring on two articles and refusing to discuss. My first attempt to get him to discuss was deleted as "trolling". When I tried to contact friends of Ghirlandajo to get some kind of communication he accused me of "wikistalking". He has also accused me of "revert-warring" and "sockpuppetry"

This is only my personal experience with Ghirlandajo, there are literally hundreds of similar instances. Ghirlandajo is paranoid, incivil, and incapable of assuming good faith. But the biggest problem is that Ghirlandajo believes that Wikipedia needs him more than he needs Wikipedia. As long as he has this holier-than-thou attitude he will treat the entire community with contempt. I don't know what rule this breaks, but I hope it is clear this attitude cannot be tolerated. --Ideogram 05:52, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Paranoia: calls the English Wikipedia "sinister" and "totalitarian" claims he was blocked for opposing an RFA implies bureaucrats are not to be trusted edit summary accusation of sockpuppetry

Failure to assume good faith: attacks another editor and his ancestors claims his opponent is a nationalist accuses an editor of being deliberately inflammatory and recommends he be banned edit summary calls previous editor a "stalking troll"

Incivility: sarcastically asks if his opponent has any arguments

Personal attacks: edit summary

Revert warring: [37]; [38], [39], [40];

Ghirlandajo continues to claim he is being persecuted over individual events and refuses to understand that he has a long pattern of unacceptable behavior that needs to be addressed. --Ideogram 09:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"I'm sorry." Ghirla, I am not trying to belittle your awesome contributions here in any way, but those two words of yours mean more to me than all the rest. I have indeed noted that you have been more accommodating of late, but it took comments by Grafikm fr and others to make me realize this was a conscious effort. I am truly sorry that this RFAr got filed in the middle of all this but it was hard for us outsiders to see what was going on.

I am now prepared to recommend this RFAr be dropped as being obsolete, or that if it is accepted, Ghirla be given the lightest possible punishment, some kind of warning I suppose. The problem appears to have solved itself. --Ideogram 07:45, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by User:Alex Bakharev

As an established meatpuppet user guilty in occasional support of User:Ghirlandajo I have to remind you that with all respect the task of this project is writing an enciclopedia. Without writing the articles all our wonderful social and administrative activities are just an empty mastrubation. On this page I heared a phrase Ghirlandajo is a valuable editor but.... I am not sure everybody here understands just how valuable he is for the project.

I consider myself to be a sort of content creator, having written around 150 articles some to WP:DYK level and over 15K edits with around 10K in the mainspace. Many of my mainspace are products of AWB and Vandalism reversion, so they are not that valuable. Despite a not particular impressive results it took a significant amount of effort. I think most of people here can say something like this about your own contributions. In the case of Ghirlandajo we have more than 1000 new articles, quite a number of them of a very high standards, more than 50K edits - most of them are actually content creation, not automatic tools, very little vandalism reversion, little revert warring and empty talk - 90% is what Wikipedia is for - the content creation. I am monitoring P:RUS/NEW and more or less aware of all new articles related to Russia. Ukraine and Belarus. The quality and quantity of Ghirlandajo's work there is equal to the total of next five..ten best users (me included). Without Ghirlandajo there would be huge holes in the Wikipedia's coverage of the 1/6 the Earth. Besides this I constantly find that Ghirlandajo making valuable contributions to the spheres completely outside the Eastern European realm. Anyway I will estimate that Ghirlandajo is approximately five to ten time more valuable than an average established user or admin like me.

Yes, he has strong opinions on some problems and occasionally not very civil. Sometimes he is stubborn. Still I am finding that it is an absolute disgrace for our project that we assemble here not to praise his great efforts but to shame him or even ban him. In my own opinion such great contributors like Ghirlandajo or for example User:Halibutt who is also often a target of criticism deserve from us, people of the project, that we do our best to establish the most comfortable conditions for their work with the minimal misuse of this valuable resources on wikilawyering. Obviously it does not mean to give them a free hand in inserting their POV into the articles or biting new users, or putting really venomous attacks on established users. But otherwise I would think that in our own interests to live such people alone and let them work for our project. abakharev 12:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC) Rspns to User:Ideogram. I am not aware of any productive user diven away by Ghirlandajo. Who are you talking about? abakharev 13:05, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by non-involved party User:Pan Gerwazy

First I would like to beg administrators' indulgence, as this is my first attempt at involvement in such matters.

This whole affair is an aftermath of the dispute over the Russo-Turkish War. That User:Ghirlandajo does not remember that User:Cowman109 was involved there too ([[41]]) does not testify to bad memory, but to the fact that he is working so hard at this project that he simply could not possibly remember all brief encounters of that kind. The problem with mediation there was that User:Ideogram insisted that everyone deleting the reference to a book by an Armenian genocide denier (some Turkish editors were using the article to introduce the book as a trustable academic source into Wikipedia) should explain why (s)he did that, whereas the problem with that book and its author had been discussed at length on the talk page already.

I did not exactly see eye to eye with Ghirlandajo at that page ([[42]] , but as the attempts at "mediation" were obviously only exacerbating the situation with Ghirlandajo claiming User:Ideogram to be a troll or a sockpuppet, I did some digging into past encounters between Ghirlandajo and Ideogram and told Ghirlandajo on his talk page what I had found (evidence of possible stalking) and advised him not to react to a rather ambiguous comment by Ideogram before, which sounded like an invitation to a revert war. ([[43]] and subsequently [[44]]) Apart from the stalking (see further evidence [[45]]), Ghirlandajo also accused Ideogram of sockpuppeting. The point being that before Ideogram arrived on the scene as mediator, an anonymous IP, the Ghirla stalker, had been working in unison with Turkish editors in a revert war against Ghirlandajo: [[46]] and [[47]]. After Ideogram arrived, this anonymous IP more or less left the Russo-Turkish scene, thinking he had done enough damage there, and went on to other pages.

Now User:Piotrus is flabbergasted to see himself presented as an interested party. I am not. He was dragged into this conflict because no one else could be found who may better damn Ghirlandajo. In fact, this "affair" as I called it at the beginning of my statement, has been going on for some time, since the end of June: [[48]]. Why do I get the impression that this is a cabal of two who have waited for Ghirlandajo to be trivially blocked on incivility to present a Request for Arbitration? In any case, including User:Piotrus indicates how weak this case was from the beginning and that it was started as a fishing operation – it was believed someone else was bound to report further evidence of annoying language from Ghirlandajo to this Request. A request that is rather untimely, because Ghirlandajo has recently decided to keep to writing and improving articles and leave the bickering to those who are not so good at writing an encyclopaedia - and is trying to keep himself to that proposition.--Pan Gerwazy 23:47, 8 September 2006 (UTC) (trimmed to 490 words according to MS Word)[reply]

Statement by non-involved party User:Renata3

I completely agree with User:Ideogram. Ghirlandajo is uncivil and insulting with very strong Russian POV. The incidents are not isolated cases, but overarching patters of behavior developed through years and months. Just no one got the guts do anything about it because, as Alex Bakharev nicely explains, Ghirlandajo did write 1000 articles.

Some examples of Ghirlandajo incivility:

  • [49] putting in a nice pink box on top of his talk page that "The edits of established ghirlaphobes from Poland and former Polish dominions will be promptly removed, unless their proconsular leader is defrocked"
  • [50] threatening to enforce the disclaimer described above in reply to a good faith questions on his recent edits, and accusing editor of trolling and nationalism
  • [51] keeping up with his promise above
  • [52] keeping up with his promise above.
  • [53] accusing User:M.K of "Russophobic hand" when that particular sentence in the article came from 2004.
  • [54] edit warring over his personal opinion on "reconstructed" or "recently built" castle

Some examples of POV edits:

  • [55] defending POV phrasing: "These brilliant feats of arms — utterly unprecedented in Russo-Polish relations..."
  • [56] removing external link and image that supports architect not being Russian
  • [57] removing categories not to show he was French-Russian
  • [58] describing Red Army military campaign as "walked across Polish borders"
  • [59] and finally, recognizing his own POV on user page

He even thinks that he owns articles:

  • [60] reverting "unexplained" edits, but this is Wikipedia where people are encouraged to edit freely, no?
  • [61] revert warring on image placement (yes, he got blocked for that)
  • [62] again, image layout
  • [63] demanding to cite policy on changing image caption

While browsing through contributions, I did not seem to catch a single attempt to compromise, alter his original stand, to meet somewhere in between. He seems to have this "my way or the high way" notion. I urge ArbCom to see this case not as Ghirla vs Piotrus as originally presented, but Ghirla vs community. He has been a problem user for a very long time. I doubt anyone could argue that he is incivil. Yes, some like Alex, can and will point out to his numerous contributions, but is that a license to be a dick? Renata 17:42, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Quick reply to Ghirla: I did ask you on your talk about one of the diffs I supplied. No response so far. As to "revenge" for Grand Duchy of Lithuania: I made not a single edit to that article and not a single diff I provided is about you editing that article. Here, again, Ghirla thinks he is being "hunted" for isolated incidents, when really these are patterns of behavour repeating again, and again, and again on different articles and Wikipedia namespace. Renata 15:11, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved party Bishonen

I'm certainly not part of any group of users habitually defending Ghirlandajo; in fact in the only dialogue I've had with him, in April of this year, he was wounding and inconsiderate, and I've given him a wide berth ever since. Nevertheless, I urge arbcom to reject this case. In fact I urge Cowman109 to withdraw it. I believe, after a sampling of Ghirlandajo's more recent contributions, that he is already well on the way to communicating on-wiki with more consideration for others. (Or that he was, as the circumstances around his recent 3-hour block and around this RFAr will surely tend to the opposite effect.) The recent diffs posted by Cowman on ANI are IMO by no means personal attacks or incivilities, they're mere expressions of opinion in appropriate venues. I clicked on them lazily, expecting to have my preconceptions confirmed—"oh, yeah, Ghirlandajo, rude bugger"—and was astonished to see what kinds of edits are now being called "incivility and trolling". Please just look at them, Giano lays them out above. In the ANI discussion following on Cowman's list of diffs, some strong protests were lodged against the treatment of Ghirlandajo, and incomprehension was expressed of why these diffs were even being posted (a puzzlement I share). See especially the fully argued comment by Irpen on Tony Sidaway's actions ("dangereous, unwarranted and harmful", as italicized by Irpen). What Tony did was post a warning on User talk:Ghirlandajo that referred to the edits in question as "gross incivility and what appear to be trolling or deliberately inflammatory comments"[64] (IMO a provocative description) and then he blocked Ghirlandajo for this response. The block reason given is "Unreasonable and defiant response to request to tone down after multiple instances of gross incivility"[65] I'm flabbergasted by this. "Unreasonable" might equally well be applied to Tony's insistence that these edits are grossly incivil, and as for defiant, WTF? (That stands for "What The Flap-doodle".) Users don't get to defy admins now—that's a block reason? What are we, 19th-century headmasters at a really strict public school? If this kind of treatment "encourages" Ghirlandajo to be more civil, I'll eat my cascading style sheets—where's the realistic psychology? There is too much blocking for putative, subjectively defined (as there is no other way of defining them), "NPA violations", and it only seems to be getting worse. The idea of blocking an editor one finds abrasive in order to give him/her "time to cool down" or an "opportunity" for introspection or whatever (a notion also mooted in the recent User:Giano debacle) seems to me to be mere Newspeak, and just about equally patronizing as planting officious warning templates on established users. Did anybody ever improve in civility, let alone introspection, by being talked down to in this way?
The most important point I want to make is that I think Ghirlandajo had already seen the light and was being more congenial. That's the impression I've formed from a sampling of his recent contribs. Of course I may have missed stuff, but better-informed editors are saying the same thing above, I see. (See statement by Grafikm_fr). I believe that the complaints made at the old RFC which is listed as evidence above and which was brought in December 2005, are essentially obsolete. I would fully endorse Ghirlandajo's request for more recent evidence. Finally, it's not an admin job, or even an arbcom task, to fix people. Yes, Ghirlandajo probably does think the project needs him more than he needs it; yes, he goes on a lot about his contributions; yes, it's annoying; so? I'm annoying, you're annoying. Wikipedia is not the bed of Procrustes for reworking people's personalities all into the same approved mold. For instance, and this is just one minor example, we're not all Americans. There needs to be room in the project for a fiery Sicilian like Giano, a rancorous Swede like me, an... annoying Russian like Ghirla. To some of us, the dominant American/British wiki discourse (which I'll refrain from offering any stereotype of) can even be annoying in and of itself. More headroom, please. Bishonen | talk 19:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Statement by uninvolved party user:Geogre

This is an absurdity wrapped in travesty. Unpleasant people are normal. People who are arrogant, abrasive, imperious, intemperate, and even malicious in their hearts are normal, and Wikipedia is not a project only for saints. There is no policy against being curt or even nasty. There are multiple policies against disruption of Wikipedia, and in this case the disruption is being caused by Tony Sidaway. It is not that I endorse any particular nastygram by Ghirla, but rather that the idea that dissenters are to be blocked and then arbitrated when they "don't get the message." The message is to be nice, effectively, since an honest statement of dissent is incivil. Those against Carnildo's reappointment are in "the minority," but RFA was never 50/50. The moving goal posts on his RFA have gotten several people to either leave or express outrage. If outrage is now a blockable offense, then leaving is the only option. There is a policy that says we don't attack each others' persons. That is all it says. Failure to please the administrators is no crime. Seeing administrators as being in a conspiracy is no crime. Only when we try to run with jackboots do we justify every malicious thing that our detractors can say, and this case gives every wild eyed opponent of Wikipedia's administration the perfect justification because it is absolute evidence. Geogre 20:55, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved party user:Mzajac

Perhaps there is no way to know that Ghirlandajo's behaviour has driven any editors away from Wikipedia, but for several months I have chosen to edit in topics where he is not active, and actively avoid participating in any discussion where conflict with him is likely. His extremely unpleasant manner of participating in disputes is hard to take, and I could certainly see how it could cause other editors to withhold contributions. I'm glad to see things have been improving. —Michael Z. 2006-09-08 18:48 Z

Statement by uninvolved party Fred-Chess

I hesitated to post this, becase I feel that people leave Wikipedia on their own behalf, and not because of others.

But since it is repeatedly questioned whether anyone has left Wikipedia because of Ghirla, I will point my finger towards User:Wiglaf -- an administrator with 10k+ edits -- who left Wikipedia in December 2005. His Special:Contributions/Wiglaf makes it obvious why he left.

Statement by uninvolved party by User:R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine)

Normally, I try to stay as far away from the meat-grinder known as Arbcomm as humanly possible. But the defendant known as Ghirla, has invoked not only my name but that of my departed friend and one of my wiki-mentors, Wiglaf. Fred Chess' above comments are correct, Ghirla was in no way responsible for Wiglaf's departure nor was Molobo. While they certainly did not give him reason to stick around, neither did they drive him off.

  • Second point, Ghirla and I are not friends. Like many here, he and I have had our differences in the past. Sometimes unpleasant, heated exchanges in which certain derrogatory terms have been traded. I blame him no more than myself (afterall it takes two to Tango, right?). I quite frankly find him a boorish Russian nationalist. He doubtless views myself as an Ugly American redneck. But so what?! At the end of the day we don't hate eachother...we tolerate eachother, we agree to disagree and we respect eachother as editors, scholars and gentlemen. We see beyond our differences of opinion, personality and nationality and put up with eachother because we realize that having us both here makes this place and this project better than if one of us departs on account of the other. Which leads to my-
  • Third point, Ghirla does damn good work, and he does A LOT of it. Even his foes must acknowledge this. Overlooking, downplaying or ignoring this fact, is shortsighted and (in my POV) foolish. The defendant's personality should not be allowed to overshadow this fact. in fact, many of the best writers,both here and out there on earth where it really matters, are opinionated, outspoken, contentious, cranky, ill-tempered assholes. Bishonen makes this point quite well above.
  • Point the Forth, "You can't take away peoples' right to be assholes". If you don't know where that quote is from, I suggest you go see Demolition Man (film)...go ahead I'll wait till you're done. And when you try to take that right away you only make things worse.
  • Point Number Five, is more of a question really, why is Ghirla really here? Because he is a churlish Russian Bear? Or because, like Karmafist, he's an outspoken opponent of the increasingly authoritarian , heavy handed and (dare I say) arbitrary power structure here on Wiki:en? Surely if edit warring and disruption are the charges, why isn't User:Molobo here? If having, as someone (not me, unfortunately) once described, A "temper like a harvest combine inside an orphanage", is a crime, then why isn't User:Kelly Martin here (again)? Both are just as guilty, but are far less productive contributors than Ghirla, which to my mind makes them more expendable for the good of the project and the community. If you must have a witch hunt, try going after the real witches for a change.
  • Point (not a number!) Six, this project really does need Ghirla and his like more than they need it. That he is here now, represents a failure of all the normal channels of mediation, dispute resolution and community building. Taking punitive action against him for any of the above "sins", would only further compound these failures.

But, if Wikipedia desires to shoot itself in the foot once more, who are we to stand in the way. Trying to roll this here growing boulder upside an increasingly steep and rocky mountain is getting tiresome. There is enough knowledge and talent involved in this Arbcomm case alone to start our own Wiki. And we will learn from the mistakes and maybe get it right this time, by creating a community and project where knowledge and good writing are welcomed and rewarded (Wow what a concept!). So either learn to put up with us, as we put up with you, or bid farewell to "an annoying Russian", "a fiery Sicilian", "a rancorous Swede" and "a lazy, mildly dyslexic AADD afflicted bastard, with a Scots/Irish temper, courtesy of my ancestors which has been deep fried by a Southern climate and upbringing Y'all." Hmm maybe if we do start our own Wiki, we should call ourselves the Disgruntled Wikipedians' Breakfast Club BTW, I'm only half joking...but which half?--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) 08:12, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A query from Mackensen

It's unclear from the above if this request concerns Piotrius and the Russo-Turkish War or Tony Sidaway and Carnildo's RfA. I'm having real difficulty imagining a case that includes both. Could someone wiser than I explain what the hell is going on? Thanks, Mackensen (talk) 01:12, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (1/0/1/0)

Kven

Initiated by Fred-Chess at 16:14, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Statement by Fred-Chess

A user with many sock-puppets has for 10 months pushing unsupported POV on articles related to the Kvens.

addendum to Tony Sidaway
  • I was adviced by administrator user:Bishonen to take this to arbitration. Administrator user:Mikkalai also told me that the Kven-User did not technically committ anything warranting a hardblock. But yes, the wish to block the user indefinite has been made by several users. If you think this is the correct action, please tell me. / Fred-Chess 16:21, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
response to user:Labongo
  • There has been no previous arbitration about Kven-users, but I did bring it up to Mediation a couple of months ago. Kven-users did not want to participate in that either. He claimed that all that was necessary was for certain users (such as me) to stop vandalizing. / Fred-Chess 19:01, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Tony Sidaway

If this is such an open and shut case, why not just take it to WP:ANI with a proposal for a community ban on the nuisance editor? --Tony Sidaway 16:19, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion withdrawn. I'm satisfied with Fred Chess's response. --Tony Sidaway 17:02, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Leifern

I can only confirm Fred Chess's account of the situation. This editor has made a habit of making a mess out of an article about a distinct, non-controversial topic (the minority in Norway known as Kvens), accompanied by rather pathetic attempts at intimidation with sockpuppets, e.g., : [73] [74] [75]. This editor does not appear to be interested in any kind of reasonable resolution to the disputes he has. The result is that an article - about this particulary minority - is compromised from time to time, not to mention my talk page and probably others. --Leifern 17:07, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Drieakko

Reasonable discussions have been rather difficult recently in Kvens of the past and Kvens because the user fills the discussion forums with meaningless rants and personal remarks. Vandalism in those articles as well as in Kings of Kvenland and Kven language are of less nuisance, but of course annoying. There is something to admire in his almost religious determination to mess those articles, but at the end of the day his place is not in Wikipedia to do that. --Drieakko 17:33, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Labongo

My impression is that the user has given up any attempts to discuss or cooperate with other editors several months ago. Currently, he uses his many sock-puppets to revert the Kven articles to a version (s)he wrote several months ago, and to post long personal attacks on the talk pages. However, my biggest concern is that his long comments, lately posted on multiple talk pages, will discourage new editors from improving the Kven articles. Labongo 06:26, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think the message below posted by an anonymous user signing as Steve Wondering in Talk:Kvens of the past is relevant for this case (Steve Wondering often post as an anonymous user). Labongo 07:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
"To user Fred-Chess: We tried the route you suggest [request for arbitration] already before, remember. You indeed have been one of the major causes of chaos here - please check the archive. Despite of numerous requests, you kept pushing false information, and - of course - you were persistant in not providing sources. Then you sort of apologized for your behavior only a couple of months ago, for which we salute you. - - Steve Wondering"
Just to make it clear. The purpose of the comment above was to show that the Kven user is aware of this request for arbitration, but have chosen not participate yet.Labongo 20:20, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by party 6

(Please limit your statement to 500 words. Overlong statements may be removed without warning by clerks or arbitrators and replaced by much shorter summaries. Remember to sign and date your statement.)

Statement by uninvolved party User:Ghirlandajo

I'm not sure whether I am a party to this case, as well as the preceding one. Actually, there are some parallels between the two. Last year I was one of the first to encounter the Kven editor, as these diffs illustrate. My first rection was to delete lengthy and obvious original research without further discussion. Such was my strategy when a similar nonsense was pasted in Russo-Turkish War, 1877–1878. Since User:Ideogram thought it appropriate to file an arbitration case against me on this account, I suggest these two cases should be merged. --Ghirla -трёп- 11:10, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Response to Ghirlandajo by User:Ideogram

This statement by Ghirlandajo is utterly bizarre. I cannot see what this case has to do with the one above. I did not file the arbitration case against Ghirlandajo, and the case against Ghirlandajo is not about a particular content dispute but about Ghirlandajo's conduct in general over a period of many months. This statement by Ghirlandajo is simply a waste of time. --Ideogram 11:36, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The material behind the diff links provided by Ghirlandajo are undeniably from the "Kven-user". Otherwise I'd see best these cases handled separately. --Drieakko 11:57, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Response to Ghirlandajo by uninvolved User:Pan Gerwazy

First I want to apologize to User:Ideogram if this comes over as stalking.

My first thought was also that these were completely unconnected. Now, since in the preceding discussion Fred has brought up the Varangian edit war to claim User:Wiglaf may have left Wikipedia because of User:Ghirlandajo's contributions there - note that that claim was made after User:Ideogram and User:Piotrus withdrew from the Ghirlandajo Request - I feel I must now suggest that, if possible, the part of the accusation against User:Ghirlandajo connected with Varangians be merged with this arbitration case, since it is clear from the discussion there that User:Wiglaf confused Ghirlandajo with the Kven user. Have a good look at User:Adam Bishop's contributions there- they explain it all.

Ghirlandajo is basically right to claim that the anonymous IP Ghirla stalker who since registered as User:Truthseeker 85.5 created the same havoc in Russo-Turkish War, 1877–1878 causing Ghirlandajo to think that ... User:Ideogram was the Ghirla stalker.

As for this particular case, real justice requires equal treatment under equal circumstances. We cannot reward one user (User:Truthseeker 85.5) and give him an account like all un-annoying people here because we cannot block him anyway (without blocking one sixth of Poland that is) and punish the Kven User(s). --Pan Gerwazy 09:48, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (2/0/0/0)

Vivaldi

Initiated by Arbusto at 08:28, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

Vivaldi (talk · contribs) [76] Contacted on user talk page
Arbustoo (talk · contribs) I as bringer of the RfA

Vivaldi has been uncivil, has wikistalked, tedious editted, harassed, broke POV, and edit warred after agreeing not to in a RfC.

Statement by Arbustoo

In May 2006 the disputes began at the Jack Hyles article when Vivaldi began removing cited criticism from the article. My interest in the article began solely because people were removing documented facts about a pastor and a molestation at his church (most recently was white washed the other day[77]). This progressed into edit problems in related articles Hyles Anderson College, Jack Schaap, Preying from the Pulpit(ongoing view history[78]), and First Baptist Church of Hammond.

I opened Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Vivaldi in May hoping to settle the disputes. I closed the RfC with basic agreements about editing warring, harassment, breaking civil, and other wikipedia rules. This user signed[79] agreeing to cease this behavior. Yet, the harassment and wikistalking has continued. When this user knows I've edited he visits something I have editted and offers POV and/or uncivil. Examples in the last few days: [80] [81][82] [83] [84][85][86] [87] [88][89] and keeps claiming I am pushing a POV and Vivaldi removes material in those edits[90][91][92][93][94] Vivaldi uses wikilawyering tactics (see many on the RfC)[95][96][97][98] citing policy in obtuse incorrect, POV, and illogical ways[99] (again see the RfC for details[100]).

User also lies/misleads to the community about me to attack me. Most recent example was today: An anon. IP voted and made comments on only four AfDs (all mine). I removed this comments noting "rv this IP that has hit every single one of my AfDs" (which I believed to be the banned user who created the articles and Use Your Naugin (talk · contribs) [a sock of Gastrich see his hit of Lousiana Baptist University] went to AfD the day before) and Vivaldi put the comments back and claimed, the IP "has participated in a number of AfDs not nominated by Arbustoo, so that accusation is baseless and without merit."[101] However, the only AfD votes made in the last five days (the day in question is Sept 4th), are ONLY my four AfDs see: history205.157.110.11 (talk · contribs) the last previous vote the IP made was 30 August 2006.

Wikistalking is not acceptable, and the adminstrators I've contacted[102][103][104] can't do anything. For further evidence see: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Vivaldi Arbusto 08:28, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by party 2

(Please limit your statement to 500 words. Overlong statements may be removed without warning by clerks or arbitrators and replaced by much shorter summaries. Remember to sign and date your statement.)

Statement by now involved User:205.157.110.11

Since Arbusto has brought me into this matter, maybe I can leave a comment without him blanking it. I am an anon-by-choice former user who tickles his wiki-itch from time to time mostly in AfD. I happen to leach off a public IP that is shared by employees of Office Depot. Early this morning I was intrigued by the AfD of several well known envangelicals (David Jeremiah, Darrell Bock, John Hannah, and Andy Stanley) I posted my support to keep them. The theme of the AfD and the obvious pattern their nomination had intrigued me.
On all the AfDs, Arbusto subsequently deleted my comments. He would later go back and insert strike marks through my votes. On two of the AfD, Vivaldi reverted back my comments and noted my history of commenting on other AfDs. I thanked Vivaldi for his actions and noticed the Rfc and mentioning of the AfD so I made a comment here to give some background. Arbusto also took it upon himself to blank that comment.
While I can not offer insight into the heart of the disagreement between Vivaldi and Arbusto, I consider Arbusto's actions of blanking my comments and manipulating them with strike mark vandalism of my comments and wholly inappropriate and uncivil. As an anon-user, I understand that in items like AfD discussions that my comment may carry less weight and even be viewed with suspicion. It is appropriate for other users to voice those supicions and even, if they wish, choose to tag the IP with a suspected sockpuppet tag. While I personally would say that's wiki-paranoia, it is still appropriate. What is not appropriate is to vandalize other user's comments and to treat them in an uncivil matter. While Arbusto's actions are not bannable, I do request a warning reprimand for him and believe that his comments and actions in relation to this RfA should be evalulated in light of his demonstrated behavior. Thank you. 205.157.110.11 11:42, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Response

205.157.110.11 (talk · contribs) voted on only four AfD, which included edit summaries that said "strawberries"[105]. Prior to this the IP's last AfD votes that were not Gastrich-my AfDs was on August 30, 2006 (five days before). These articles created by Gastrich 1 anon Gastrch 2user who made 5 edits. Jason_Gastrich (talk · contribs) was caught pushing POV and is banned from wikipedia.

The previous day my AfDs also go hit by a sock: Use_Your_Naugin (talk · contribs) whose first and only edits were on my AfDs and were Gastrich related (note user's edits on Lousiana Baptist University--the basis of the banning). This was brought to an adminstrators attention [106] and those votes were lined out my me.

With that in mind from the previous day and that banned Jason_Gastrich (talk · contribs) watches some of his articles still, I warned an admin to expect[107] socks. This was before this anon appeared. Then this IP directly came to my four AfDs, and being an IP I removed the material with a edit summary explaining that he only voted on 4 AfDs, which are all interrelated by the same user. The last previous edit at this IP was nearly a day before, last AfD vote was 5 days before, and his AfD vote summary said "Strawberries"[108](whatever that meant?). I removed the vote with notation of why, and Vivaldi clearly was looking at my edit history, and felt compelled to revert it (and as of now a day later; Vivaldi has not editted since). Arbusto 17:40, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Funny, the anon. has removed my comments explaining.[109] The IP also made personal attacks on the AfD after removing my comments. More puppets.[110] Arbusto 19:18, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by User:JzG

The articles at the centre of this dispute have a long and inglorious history of Gastroturfing. I have been around these articles for some time and I find it very hard to come down unambiguously on one side or the other. I'd like to make a couple of comments:
  • Arbustoo performs valuable work policing a large number of articles against aggressive POV pushing by certain Christian fundamentalists, as we saw in the Gastrich case, and this has included long-term monitoring of articles on some unaccredited universities and their alumni and founders. In most cases the principal focus of each new or anonymous editor has been to remove any criticism, however well cited, or to try to neutralise it through special pleading.
  • Arbustoo's personal views are hostile to this particular strand of fundamentalist Christianity, and as far as I can see to Christianity in general. This has not impeded a productive working relationship with other editors such as myself and others who are self-identified Christians.
  • Vivaldi is a contributor clearly sympathetic to these subjects. He is familiar with policy and guidelines and I cannot recall offhand any examples of his adding content which seriously fails on that score. His early edits removed a great deal of what I can only characterise as cruft from the articles.
  • One recurring source of conflict between Arbustoo and Vivaldi, and one where I tend to side more with Arbustoo than with Vivaldi, is the removal of cited critical material from the biography of Jack Hyles. Much of this criticism is quite singular, in that I am not aware of similar criticism of other Christian figures of equivalent standing. This may, however, be a reaction to the actions of Gastrich and his cronies, or it may be my own personal bias as an Anglican and former Methodist, with an innate suspicion for the lavish displays and aggressive certainties on offer from independent Baptist megachurches. The last time I was a parishoner of a megachurch, the building had been on the verge of falling down due to neglect at several points in its history.
  • Nonetheless, I am not persuaded yet that Vivaldi is actively stalking Arbustoo, although there is little doubt each automatically takes a contrary position to the other, whether due to past bad blood or innate differences is hard to say. Anyone who watches AfD will see new AfD nominations, and if two editors are interested in the same set of articles then they are going to run across each other a lot. That said, it is sometimes stretching assumption of good faith a little hard when the same voice pops up quite so quickly; but then, it is arguably legitimate to watch a user's contributions if he has a history of making comments about you, which Arbustoo undoubtedly does in this case, albeit not without justification.
  • Arbustoo is, in my view, somewhat over-inclined to diagnose Gastroturfing when the more likely explanation is simply hive-mind mentality by people associated with the individuals and groups concerned. I have seen plenty of evidence that members of these churches and most especially graduates of the unaccredited universities take any implied criticism of their insititutions very personally indeed.
Due to various other events I have been less active on these articles for some time. I believe Arbustoo has been distinctly isolated, fighting a war against determined POV pushing, has felt that others have ganged up on him, and has at least sometimes been entirely justified in that view, at least in my opinion.
As far as I am concerned, Vivaldi needs to tone down the rhetoric and stop winding Arbustoo up. And Arbustoo needs to - well, I'm not sure. I think he needs more support from me and others like me.
I have no idea what ArbCom can do here, I am not even sure if my own view on the matter is neutral, valid or valuable in any way. As far as I can tell, both Arbustoo and Vivaldi are editors with a history of valuable contributions. If Arbustoo is driven off then a number of articles on institutions and individuals will be at risk of sliding into uncritical admiration and special pleading. If Vivaldi is driven off we lose one of the more reasonable of the "pro" contributors, in that he is at least amenable to argument from policy. I think both need to back off and stop personalising things, but I can certainly see why Arbustoo would personalise things since there is no doubt in my mind that he has been aggressiovely trolled in the past. I am not good at ignoring trolls, and I don't think Arbustoo is either.
For the avoidance of doubt, althoguh both Vivaldi and Arbustoo have clearly exhibited a strong bias in respect of these subjects, and have both been at times uncivil towards each other and others, it is my view that of the two Vivaldi is both the more tendentious, and the more problematic, because his bias is less in line with what I perceive as the mainstream view. Also Vivaldi has been in my view the more aggressive and uncivil. Whether you want to accept my opinion on that is up to you, I guess. Guy 17:04, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Minor note: Hyles wasn't a Southern Baptist, he was an Independant Fundamental Baptist, and the institutions which were associated with him still are. A.J.A. 18:44, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, you're right. All these fundamentalists look the same to me :-)
A detailed comparison of Vivaldi's history on the Talk pages of articles whose subjects he admires (Bill Gothard, Jack Schaap, Jack Hyles) and those he does not (e.g. Barbara Schwarz) is instructive. Guy 19:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
One more comment: Vivaldi's Talk page currently includes some pretty blatant trolling and attacks on two other admins who may have useful perspective to offer, User:FeloniousMonk and User:Guettarda. Guy 23:02, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (2/0/0/0)

Wiki-vigilante

Initiated by Richard George at 07:43, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

It's impossible to deal with this sir. This request comes about a personal persecution and extendends beyond a single article. Mediation is commonly related to one solo article. This is now focused on deliberate attacks to my edits by user FilipeS so I can't but just notifying him as in [111] and proceed here.

Statement by party 1

As stated on his talk page, this FilipeS is extremely disrespectful and has decided to track down my contributions. His conduct is miserable. He does not discuss and acts like Wikipedia being his private page. My surprise when I've seen him reverting all my edits simply with "rv vandalism". I won't allow myself to be stomped by dictatorship and contemption. I added, he erased, and there he went on editing like there was no tomorrow. If he wants to add, discuss my adds first before erasing, then proceed.

I made simple adds on Portuguese language on account of my experience in investigations about portuguese culture. He stomped me there because his page was in his watchlist (maybe he's confusing Watchlist with Private Property) then he decided to hunt all my related contributions. He appears to be one of those new fashioned wiki-vigilantes who seek status on tracking down other users.

The edits I made in Portuguese Language, Voiced uvular fricative‎ and Portuguese phonology were based on educational material teached in portuguese schools and universities. It is the accepted and approved material by idoneous professors like Edite Estrela and portuguese academies and book editors.

It seems to be easy nowadays to annihilate contributions here, asking almost impossible things like "citation needed". Alas!! These kind of books are not available in free PDF's hither and thither in Internet. Do I have to scan the books and show them here to him?

I request for solutions. Thank you. Yours sincerely --Richard George 07:43, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by party 2

Richard George made some edits to Portuguese language, Portuguese phonology, Guttural R, and Voiced uvular fricative which are, to the best of my knowledge, incorrect, so I reverted them. These were substantial changes, so he should have discussed them in the Talk page before reinstating them, which he did not do. I guess I could have told him to discuss the changes first, but unfortunately he has no User Talk page, and I confess that I was not very motivated to talk to him, given the level of language he had used in his edit summaries. By the way, I don't think this is a matter that would require arbitration. He should have just put up a "factual accuracy" dispute in the relevant pages, if he wasn't satisfied. I would sure love to see what sources he based his edits on. FilipeS

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (1/3/0/0)

Human Rights in Israel

Initiated by MauroVan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) at 10:27, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

Mediation attempts made (check Talk:Israel#NPOV_Tag_for_Human_Rights).

Since it's been questioned whether the issue has undergone formal or informal procedures prior to the request for aribtration, I will give some extra information on that:
  1. 8-25, Talk:Israel#NPOV_Tag_for_Human_Rights: ... If I did wrong, please explain me why before redeleting it. --MauroVan 13:19, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
  2. 8-29, Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Politics: There's disagreement between two editors about the reliability of Amnesty International as a source about human rights issues when talking about democratic countries. A part suggests to use statements from both Amnesty International and other, more pro-Israel, sources, while the other part suggests to use only statements not originated from Amnesty International reports.--MauroVan 12:50, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
  3. 8-29, Talk:Israel#NPOV_Tag_for_Human_Rights: I'm here in response to MauroVan's request for comment. I recognize that you all know the subject matter better than I do, but can offer some suggestions. ... Thanks, and good luck, TheronJ 14:09, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
  4. 9-1, User_talk:TheronJ#Trying_to_cool_down_the_Israel_issue: Hi, again on the Israel page, especially the Human Rights controversy. I think that your mediation attempt was very good, and I did my best to follow your advice. ... I'm not so fond of Amnesty International, I just think it's unconceivable to exclude such a cite just because this editor doesn't like AI. Therefore, please do something, I think an arbitration could be useful since this is a very sensitive issue and such an unbalanced section will always generate disputes ... --MauroVan 09:09, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
  5. 9-1, Talk:Israel#NPOV_Tag_for_Human_Rights: I am responding as an outsider to the controversy, as requested. This seems to me to be a simple case. In the vast majority of nations, Israel is regarded as highly controversial because of the persistant accusations that they violate human rights. The argument that all this criticism stems from anti-Semitism is not credible. The groups listed, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, etc., are controversial, but anyone who follows the links will find the criticism of those groups. Therefore, the views of those groups should be included (and linked.) --ManEatingDonut 21:24, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
I hope this helps. --MauroVan 08:15, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by MauroVan

I think that the section Israel#Human rights should be shorter, refer to the main article and give some links with significant and well-known sources; among those sources, I would list Amnesty International and the United Nations, even though some strongly pro-Israel users don't seem to like those organizations. Some users, especially Humus sapiens, instead of trying to solve this issue on the Talk page, just revert any change. Two external mediators did their best to sort it out, but it was useless since these users refuse to cooperate.

I know that this is not the right place to tell this, so please forgive me for the off-topic but I find it very important for personal and political reasons to clarify that I am a strong opposer (in deeds and not just in words) of any form of anti-Semitism.--MauroVan 10:27, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In his statement below, editor User:Humus sapiens "forgets" to say that this was my definitive proposal, after the advices of the mediators, and not the one he linked. Creating a straw man is not a serious way to face this issue which I still believe can be easily sorted out. I think it's quite clear that my proposal is not a reflection of my POV on this issue, nor a misrepresentation of the everyday life of Israeli citizens (that I described as near to "Western standards"). I just think we should not hide some aspects of the situation there that contradict the positive aspects already well underlined by my "opponents". BTW, I'm not asking for any measure to be taken against anybody, I just would like to have a balanced article there. --MauroVan 08:25, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Humus sapiens

It seems that I am not the only one unaware of previous mediation attempts: [112] in this content dispute. MauroVan (talk · contribs) is a new user who tries to turn article Israel into a clone of Israeli-Palestinian conflict or Israeli-occupied territories. He was reverted by a number of editors - he called that vandalizing, and branded me a "vandal" (later retracted), requested that you need to be blocked and got increasingly agitated. Ironically, whithout knowing that he was filing this case, I made a compromise [113] (included links to Amnesty Intl and Human Rights Watch, but without MV's huge quotation [114]), but he still keeps insisting that WP should comply with his POV and his style preferences only: [115]. ←Humus sapiens ну? 22:53, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I made another attempt to explain my position in this content dispute at Talk:Israel#Human rights. Part 2. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ну? 09:21, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Markovich292

Based on the actions of some editors, especially Humus sapiens, I firmly believe that continued discussion on the talk page will not produce an acceptable solution, for either party. The most recent additions to the article as mentioned above do not include a large amount of information that should be contained in a section entitled "Human Rights..." I have observed that MauroVan repeatedly makes attempts to resolve this issue quickly and fairly, but editors that seem to be very supportive of Israel do not constructively address the contributions, much of the time deleting entire portions of it instead. In particular, Humus Sapiens is not adhering to NPOV policy, as he continually rewrites the section to minimalize the human rights issues in Israel. In short, I don't think Humus Sapiens will accept any version of the section that makes more than a passing reference to human rights violations, and as a result the quality of the article is suffering. Markovich292 23:11, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Blnguyen

At the time of writing, MauroVan has been on Wikipedia for three weeks and has some 130 odd posts. The section of dispute resolution is roughly the size of a moderate topic on WP:ANI. I don't see any formal or semi-formal procedures to try and solve the problem prior to this request. There are surely more pressing and otherwise intractable issues that the ArbCom could go before prematurely wading into this case. I think that this is premature and should be dismissed.Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 23:01, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Okedem

The current version (after Humus' attempt at a compromise) seems to me to be very well balanced, with about the same number of critical claims as "positive" claims. The section gives a good picture of the current situation - with its positives and negatives. A few "tweaks" could be made, certainely, but nothing major. MauroVan has not attempted any of the measures suggested prior to calling for arbitration, and has consistently changed the section in the article, instead of trying to discuss it first, before implemnting changes. This has led to a small edit war. I'm sure this issue can be resolved on the talk page, as the differences between the versions are not major. okedem 08:28, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Clerk notes

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/3/0/0)

Requests for clarification

Requests for clarification from the Committee on matters related to the Arbitration process.

Sathya Sai Baba

  1. Does not linking to purportedly unreliable websites also include the homepages of critics with their own articles of Sathya Sai Baba e.g. Robert Priddy (see [116]), Basava Premanand, M. Alan Kazlev (see here [117] one of the webpages on the website authored, owned, and maintaind by Kazlev, linked to in his Wikipedia article), Sanal Edamaruku, Babu Gogineni, the late Abraham Kovoor, and the late H._Narasimhaiah. SeeWikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/#Robert_Priddy for a description of this dispute.
  2. Does not linking to unreliable website also include wikipedia user pages such as user:Andries See [118]
  3. Do unreliable websites also include the websites created and maintained by user:SSS108 especially for Wikipedia. In certain cases such as this one [119] the webpages on this website are simply copies that SSS108 took from the webpages of exbaba.com [120]
  4. Is it okay to use webpages with copies of reputable sources on purportedly unreliable websites as convenenience links in the references. See e.g. here [121]

Andries 13:40, 9 September 2006 (UTC) amended for grammar 14:35, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by SSS108

I would like to point out that the Geocities site that Andries is now complaining about was created, with his consent and agreement, in mediation with BostonMA: Reference. In the past 6 months, Andries has never complained about the content (or ownership) on the Geocities site although the Geocities site is completely neutral, cannot be traced to either Pro/Anti Sathya Sai Baba Sites and whose content has never been disputed by Andries for the past 6 months.
Andries is now having a change of heart and is wishing to link references to his and other Anti-Sathya-Sai-Baba sites in violation of a clearly stated ruling by ArbCom that forbids this: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Sathya Sai Baba. It is also important to point out that since all these references come from reliable sources (newspapers, documentaries or magazines) they are not "owned" or copyright protected to Anti-Sai Sites. The material in question cannot be claimed by Andries as his own and was never originally published on Anti-Sai sites.
Andries entire argument is moot in light of the ArbCom ruling. Andries is unremittingly attempting to link to his Anti-Sai site so he can push his Anti-Sathya-Sai-Baba agenda. Why is he so insistent that the links go to his personal, critical, partison and controversial website when there is a neutral one that does not push anyone's agenda? That is the question that is at the heart of this matter. To further illustrate this point, Andries feels that slanderous pages are entirely appropriate on Wikipedia. See Reference where Andries stated, "re-insert homepage of the subject in question robert priddy can slander on his own article whoever he likes". It is disturbing comments like these that prove that Andries has a keen agenda to push on Wikipedia.
Even today (Sept. 9th), Andries made a highly questionable edit where media articles (which were determined to violate WP:NOT) were moved from the Article to the Talk Page: Reference. This was discussed in arbitration (Reference), in which I stated that Andries was using the talk pages to promote his Anti-Sai agenda.
I have also agreed to hand the Geocities site over to a neutral 3rd party. If anyone is willing to take over this Geocities site and assume responsibility for its upkeep (and update it accordingly, as needed), I will gladly hand the site over. I stated this when the site was created.
Andries has been trying to change Wikipedia policy on the Wikipedia:Citing_sources (see history) page so that he can push links to Anti-Sai websites (including his own) on Wikipedia: Reference. I posted on the thread on September 7th: Reference. Andries conceded that this argument preceded the ArbCom ruling and was unrelated to the ArbCom case (Reference). What is strange about this is that despite his former comments, Andries was attempting to cite this very same argument (from the Wikipedia:Citing_sources page) that he was using to defend the inclusion of links to his Anti-Sai Sites: See FloNight's Thread. Comments by Tony Sidaway might also be illuminating: Reference.
Finally, the policy might be different on pages that have not had an ArbCom ruling, however, it is my contention that since ArbCom made a ruling specific to the Sathya Sai Baba articles, the general policy must be interpreted in association with the ArbCom ruling. Thank you. SSS108 talk-email 14:57, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I want to comment here on my dual role in this matter. My first response on this was that it seemed to be a matter for administrators to resolve, and I investigated as an administrator and warned Andries politely in my role as an administrator that in my view and that of other admins he was contravening the ruling in the arbitration case.

Andries has come back politely with what amount, in my view, to clear signals that he requires much closer direction on this matter. I suggested that clarification from the arbitrators might be a good way of resolving this matter, and his query here is the response. Andries has shown by his responses and actions that he is eager and willing to comply with the arbitration and in my role as a clerk I commend his queries to the Committee, While this is clearly a dispute that could have become very rancorous, it seems to me that Andries is doing his best to avoid that path and seek clarification. I also commend SSS108 for his civility in the course of expressing a difference of opinion in a forthright and honest manner.

I hope that this is not "crossing the streams". I hope it's clear that my views as an administrator and as a clerk are quite distinct. My regard for both participants here is very high. Their honesty and civility is impressive. --Tony Sidaway 02:45, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Highways

Wikipedia:State route naming conventions poll may have been set up as a majority-wins poll, but the ArbCom clearly encouraged consensus on the matter. There is a clear lack of consensus on the poll, and yet so far three of the "admin judges" are treating it as a majority-wins poll. --SPUI (T - C) 06:10, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your side has 41%, which is definitely not consensus for your side. Also, we have to have some convention. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 06:22, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There's no consensus, thus no convention. --SPUI (T - C) 06:27, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Back to self-law. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 06:29, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This a case which failed, specifically failed to adequately deal with the problem of SPUI's behavior. It should probably be reopened. Fred Bauder 13:36, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I feel that we've just avoided nuclear war. There is relative peace at highways for now, but if SPUI's behavior does not change, a further arbcom case could be inevitable. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 18:21, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Specific Highways clarification request

I would like to ask the arbcom for clarification. Specifically, I would like explicit endorsement or repudiation of the following principles (which form the basis for how I have been operating since I got involved in trying to shepherd the process along:

  • ArbCom does not normally get involved in content disputes, but chose to in this case to try to get to closure on what had been a source of much contention and ill will.
  • ArbCom in their finding said "consensus is encouraged"... I interpret that as "== consensus is NOT REQUIRED" meaning that if consensus cannot be achieved, othre means should be used. IS this a correct interpretation of ArbCom's wishes in this matter
  • There has been a long process of evaluation of alternatives and after some discussion, a majority vote was held on principles. one principle won, with 59%. It is not our norm to accept majority votes as binding (see Polling is evil).
  • I perceive The majority of participants seem to have arrived at a consensus to accept the majority, this once, without necessarily being happy about it, or thinking that this means we are changing general principles. IS this perception correct? If so, does ArbCom endorse it as a principle in this matter?
    • It is rather clear that the main troublemaker, SPUI, is not of this view and wishes to continue his campaign of disruption. I would focus on those who view failure to achieve consensus as a victory. Fred Bauder 16:18, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • There have been a minority of participants who have continued to argue that there is not a normal consensus here and who have ignored the above consensus to accept majority. Their actions have, in my view, been disruptive. DOES arbcom agree that arguing against this principle constitute disruption of the process?
  • The forum participants have developed a process in which everyone votes to determine opinion, and then a set of (admin) judges interprets the vote and decides what the outcome (what principle shall hold) shall be I adjudge consensus for that process. DOES ArbCom agree? Is agitating against the process disruptive?
  • Some participants are saying that any objection by anyone to any judge knocks them out. I view there is not consensus for that viewpoint. DOES ArbCom agree?
  • This discussion has spilled over to many other places. That is not a good thing in my view. In some cases it smacks of forum shopping to me. It would be best if it remained in one place DOES ArbCom agree that it should remain in one place and that bringing it to new places (here and ANI perhaps excluded) is forum shopping and should be viewed as disruptive?

I have made some statements that not everyone agrees with. The following references may be of some use.

I have handed out a block to SPUI in this matter for what I viewed as disruption. It was reduced but not overturned. I feel SPUI returned to his disruptive ways last night but perhaps has settled down today. I would nevertheless welcome review of my actions and I seek clarification in the form of yes/no answers to the questions I pose above. I was counseled by some to let this go, to let someone else implement but i am one of the 6 "judges". Comment on whether I should leave enforcement to a non judge admin welcomed as well. ++Lar: t/c 16:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is a split in the Arbitration Committee on this question. Only one arbitrator, me, supports coming down heavy on SPUI. It will take a few more months of disruption before the rest will come around. Fred Bauder 16:18, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your effort, Lar. Please note that the opinions I expressed above are my own, not those of the Committee. Fred Bauder 16:18, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A couple of points in response. First, I think it would be best if I got a unified response from the whole committee, although I value your input! But if I get mixed yes/nos it may not be as helpful as a more definitive answer. Second, I'm not anti SPUI. And I'm not advocating that we "come down heavy on SPUI". Or anyone else. I just want to get to a resolution. Third, to the points raised elsewhere about new spirits of consensus, and does that contravene what I said about more new proposals being not helpful... well if everyone previously blocking working to a solution shifts, and with some compromise, everyone comes to a consensual acceptance of whatever state of affairs works for most everyone... great! That would be awesome, trust me when I say I would love to see that more than anyone. But if this lull goes back to disruptive behaviour, then I will seek to apply remedies. Hence my seeking clarification, even if the lull apparently continues, I don't want to (or whoever shouldn't have to) come back here later because I (or whoever) don't have what is needed. OK that was three things. :) ++Lar: t/c 18:24, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Some of the proponents of Principle II in the recent Highway naming poll are trying to comeup with a Manual of Style that addresses most of the concerns of Principle II supporters while keeping in line with the decision by the majorit to use the style of Principle I in the article title. This is being done at WP:USSH. I am under the impression that Lar and a few others think this is disruption. We are trying to gain real consensus by addressing specific problems with the chosen Principle without overturning it. I strongly believe that is not disruption. I hope most of thr ArbCom agrees. --Polaron | Talk 16:33, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I do not view creating a style guide to help people edit, and that helps them apply the accepted principle rationally, as "disruption", rather I find it highly useful. What I find disruptive is tagging an early stage proposal as a guide rather than a proposal. I think that's fixed though. Once the highway people reach clear consensus that it's accepted and that it's the way that people should edit I'd welcome it moving to style guide in state and getting added to the list of style guides in effect. ++Lar: t/c 19:08, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The state of affairs on Wikipedia is such that when we say consensus, we can't mean complete agreement among all parties. Our processes like AfD, RfA, and others, instead, have lowered the standard to a norm that the community sees as acceptable. Therefore, a bureaucrat can promote an administrator or an administrator can delete a page even with dissenters, provided that the amount of dissent is within that community standard. This is not the strict definition of consensus, but Wikipedia-brand consensus. Under that system, it is possible to identify this 59% vote as "consensus" provided that the community (especially administrators) is willing to enforce it. Especially in light of the fact that arbitrary decisions are better than indecision, I believe that we ought to do so; if we enforce it, it's as god as done. While there is no reason to stifle productive discussion and comprommise, I'm fairly certain that the community, as well, is at the point of enforcing the result of the poll as the less disruptive of the available options, in an effort to end the agony of this debate. Dmcdevit·t 22:48, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding highway participants' brand-new cooperative spirit

Would it be acceptable to the ArbCom if the members of this entire debate just sat down and had a civil conversation, and reached a virtually unanimous agreement on a compromise? They seem to be on track to do this now, but some are raising concerns about being outside of the process of the naming conventions poll, and that the judges of said poll have already ruled that there is a consensus. Personally, I don't think that matters, because it's always good to have more people agree, so there's no harm in having more discussion. At worst, it's just more incivil discussion and you won't be able to tell it apart from the rest anyway, but it doesn't seem to be heading that way, and is currently being rather productive. What does the ArbCom think? --Rory096 16:38, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Would it be acceptable to the ArbCom if the members of this entire debate just sat down and had a civil conversation, and reached a virtually unanimous agreement on a compromise? This is exactly what should happen. It is exactly what should happen for decision making on Wikipedia. Sam Korn (smoddy) 16:45, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Fine with me too Fred Bauder 16:58, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Specifically, we made a few concessions in exchange for their support of Principle I. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 18:16, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, I don't think any of the 'judging admins' object to sanity either. :] --CBD 11:21, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Moby Dick's article ban - projectspace?

"Moby Dick is banned from editing articles which concern Turkey or Kurdish issues." [122] Does this include Articles for Deletion discussions related to those issues? Cool Cat believes the diff above is part of a pattern of harrassment on AfDs, according to a post of his on the admins' incidents noticeboard. The simplest way to sort this out in my view would be to confirm whether his article ban does or should cover projectspace pages. --Sam Blanning(talk) 12:32, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to clarify my reasoning. While one keep vote does not constitute as stalking, Moby Dick's continuing pattern of behaviour does.
The pattern of behaviour presented in the Arbitration cases evidence page is in my view continuing for one and a half years now. Two arbitration cases have been filed over the issue. Now those arbitration hearings need to be enforced.
--Cat out 14:24, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the ambiguous term "article" is to cover all namespaces. Sam Korn (smoddy) 22:34, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed per Sam. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 18:15, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, he needs to just leave the subject alone. Fred Bauder 13:44, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair to all parties, I propose that someone alter the decision to read "page" and make an annotation to explain why the change was made (referring to this clarification with a diff). I could not make the change myself because I was an involved party in the case. --Tony Sidaway 01:52, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

May an administrator take into account prior behavior?

I recently imposed what seemed to me to be a straightforward article ban on an editor who had been disrupting the article over a period of several months. The arbitration remedy is in a case that was closed yesterday and the ban doesn't seem to have been opposed for any substantive reason; only the procedure is questioned.

The case is Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Irishpunktom and the ban is on Karl Meier editing Islamophobia, on which he almost invariably edit wars.

I would like to see the Committee clarify whether it is pertinent for an administrator, in making a decision on whether to impose a restriction under a remedy passed in an arbitration case, may take into account the behavior of the editor prior to the closing of the case. --Tony Sidaway 01:02, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by User:Netscott

This WP:AN thread is pertinent to this question. (→Netscott) 03:08, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would say that under most circumstances, the day the case closes is the day the restrictions start and the day the behaviour has to change. Why else do we have injunctions? However, if an editor attempts to get their digs in just before a ban, I suspect the committee will be quite willing to extend a ruling. In this case, I think, Karl will either behave - or not - in which case I'm sure the community will ban him quickly. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 18:14, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not comfortable with the notion of judgements being applied retroactively; if the Committee had wanted to ban Karl Meier from editing an article for 3 months, it certainly could have done so as one of its remedies. Jayjg (talk) 02:24, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've rescinded the ban. On reflection I think this ban was not acceptable to the community. --Tony Sidaway 01:54, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW, certainly, I think that "justice is blind" is not a useful process to use on Wikipedia. Sysops should use their common sense.
James F. (talk) 09:42, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Karl had not edited on en since 15th, and his only edit since then has been to reply on User talk:Karl Meier that "I don't care. I've lost any serious interest in the project." [123]. He has quit before, though [124], and came back within the month. --Tony Sidaway 19:50, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In reply to James F., I think I agree. There were other issues of fairness here that convinced me that the ban was seen as too aggressive. --Tony Sidaway 19:52, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed summary of consensus (comment by User:Newyorkbrad)

As Tony indicates, there has been a certain amount of discussion on this issue, which the community might as well profit from rather than just lose when this specific case ages off the page. I think a fair synthesis of the reaction to this general situation would run more-or-less as follows:

1. An admin should not impose a block based exclusively on behavior occurring while (or before) an ArbCom case is pending, because the ArbCom presumably considered all of that behavior in determining the sanctions that ArbCom itself would impose and the user should have a chance to modify his/her behavior in response to the decision.

2. However, in the event of misbehavior after the ArbCom case has closed, an admin would of course take the prior behavior that was the subject of the ArbCom case into account (subject to the strictures of the ArbCom ruling itself).

3. There could be borderline cases where behavior occurred after the outcome of the ArbCom case was clear but before the case was formally closed, but these should be relatively rare and one might want to run the situation by the Arbitrators.

Just my thoughts, FWIW. If anyone wants to discuss this further, perhaps this thread should refactor to the talk page. Newyorkbrad 00:37, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I don't think it's necessary to formulate this as a policy but I do think we learn from this kind of situation. My concern here was that, knowing that the arbitration committee had decided that his edit warring was problematic, and intended to proscribe his activities, Karl Meier persisted. The enactment simply provided me and other admins with the capacity to act. However this offended the general feeling that arbitration remedies should be applied in a manifestly fair manner. It certainly doesn't do any harm, in this case, to wait for the editor to respond and become accustomed to working with the remedy. --Tony Sidaway 01:06, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If a user is brought to arbitration over behavior, which he continues during arbitration, and after arbitration, the remedy addressing the behavior may be immediately applied. This assumes simple continuation of disruptive behavior. Fred Bauder 13:49, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Mass changing on style issues (dating)

user:SuperJumbo has been mass changing articles to use the British dating system. The relavant manual of style entry is as follows

"If the topic itself concerns a specific country, editors may choose to use the date format used in that country... For topics concerning the UK, Australia, Ireland, New Zealand, most other member states of the Commonwealth of Nations, and most international organizations such as the United Nations, the formatting is usually 17 February 1958 (no comma and no "th"). In the United States, it is most commonly February 17, 1958. Elsewhere, either format is acceptable"

SuperJumbo's edits have been to articles pertaining to a non-Commonwealth nations (such as France and Suriname). The arbitration committee's ruling in the Sortan case (in which Jguk was doing similiar editing with regard to BC-AD/BCE-CE) says

Wikipedia does not mandate styles in many different areas; these include (but are not limited to) American vs. British spelling, date formats, and citation style. Where Wikipedia does not mandate a specific style, editors should not attempt to convert Wikipedia to their own preferred style, nor should they edit articles for the sole purpose of converting them to their preferred style, or removing examples of, or references to, styles which they dislike.

SuperJumbo's editing, however, appers to totally disgard this ruling. He claims that converting articles to the dating system used in those countries justifies per the first line of the MOS entry allows him to make these mass changes, when the more specific statement (3 sentences later) explicitely allows a number of styles. A number of admins, including myself, have objected to the changes he is making. I would like the arbitration committee to inform him that his claim is false, and have him reverse all the changes he made to non-commonwealth nation articles. Raul654 14:11, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Motions in prior cases

(Only Arbitrators may make such motions)


Khoikhoi's probation rescinded

Since being placed on Probation for edit warring in the Aucaman case in May, Khoikhoi has demonstrated that the restriction is no longer necessary or warranted. He has been very prolific, invaluable in tracking down banned users Bonaparte and -Inanna-, contributed to at least one recent featured article. Most importantly, I see no signs of the edit warring that caused him to be included in the ruling.

I propose that, in view of good behavior, the probation placed on Khoikhoi (talk · contribs) be lifted so that he is no longer under any Arbitration Committee restrictions.

Eleven arbitrators are active and none are recused in the Aucaman case, so the majority is six. The motion to rescind Khoikoi's probation passes by 6-0.

On behalf of the arbitration commmittee. --Tony Sidaway 03:21, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Freestylefrappe limited to one account

Since being desysopped in his arbitration case, Freestylefrappe has had a number of different accounts, including Tchadienne (talk · contribs), KI (talk · contribs), Republitarian (talk · contribs), and Ya ya ya ya ya ya (talk · contribs), some of which have engaged in disruptive editing. I propose that his editing be limited to one account so that admins will have a consistent history of his activities.

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