Property talk:P5425

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Han character in this lexeme
Han character(s) this lexeme consists of

Represents	sinogram (Q17300291)
Data type	Item
Example	no label (L625294) → 有 (Q54875281) 難 (Q54918642)
See also	Revised Mandarin Chinese Dictionary ID (P11056), Hanyu Pinyin transliteration (P1721), CJKV variant character (P5475)
Lists	Items with the most statements of this property Count of items by number of statements (chart) Items with the most statements Items with the fewest statements Count of items by number of sitelinks (chart) Items with the most sitelinks Items with the most sitelinks, but no link to one Wikipedia (sample: Welsh Wikipedia, cywiki) Items with the fewest sitelinks Most linked wikis Items with the most identifier properties By value of property Most statements Fewest statements Most sitelinks Most linked wikis Total of sitelinks on items Most identifiers Fewest identifiers Items with no other statements Most recently created items Items with novalue claims Items with unknown value claims Usage history (total) Usage history (main statement) Chart by item creation date Database reports/Constraint violations/P5425 Map Random list
Proposal discussion	Proposal discussion
Current uses	Total 7,078 Main statement 7,075 >99.9% of uses Qualifier 3 <0.1% of uses
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[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]

Value type “Nôm character (Q15100640), kanji character (Q53764782), sinogram (Q17300291)”: This property should use items as value that contain property “instance of (P31)”. On these, the value for instance of (P31) should be an item that uses subclass of (P279) with value Nôm character (Q15100640), kanji character (Q53764782), sinogram (Q17300291) (or a subclass thereof). (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). Known exceptions: 𗵳 (Q87598921)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5425#Value type Q15100640, Q53764782, Q17300291, SPARQL

Allowed entity types are Wikibase lexeme (Q51885771), Wikibase form (Q54285143): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5425#Entity types

Lexeme language: Japanese (Q5287), Korean (Q9176), Mandarin (Q9192), Cantonese (Q9186), Southern Min (Q36495), Vietnamese (Q9199), Standard Mandarin (Q727694), Teochew (Q36759), chữ Nôm (Q875344), Chinese (Q7850), Old Japanese (Q5736700), Early Middle Japanese (Q182695), Okinawan (Q34233), Tangut (Q2727930), Lan–Yin Mandarin (Q662754), Hakka Chinese (Q33375), Xiang Chinese (Q13220), Middle Chinese (Q2016252), Old Chinese (Q35137), Gan Chinese (Q33475), Eastern Min (Q36455), Jinnish (Q56479), Southern Amami Ōshima (Q2840986), Okinoerabu (Q3350036), Yoron (Q2424943), Northern Amami Ōshima (Q2840988), Goguryeo (Q706327), Yonaguni (Q34243), Wu Chinese (Q34290), Middle Mongolian (Q2582455): this property should only be applied to lexemes with these languages (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5425#language

Scope is as main value (Q54828448): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)

Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303).
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P5425#Scope, SPARQL

Labels renaming

Hi,

Should this property be labeled "CJK character in this lexeme" instead of "Han character in this lexeme" (same for other languages). Both are synonyms but CJK feels more right as it seems more common, more international ("Han" tends to be understood as "Chinese", which is not totally untrue but a bit confusing) and more correct (see this FAQ page by Unicode).

@Okkn, Higa4, Loominade, Shisma, Nikki: as user of this property, what do you think?

Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 13:29, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

VIGNERON:  Support--Loominade (talk) 08:59, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Old proposal but I support this. There exist non-Chinese-origin CJKV ideograph (Q11420697). So I think it's not always "Han" character. Laftp0 (talk) 02:50, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

@VIGNERON @Loominade @Laftp0 I would like to revisit this and suggest “sinogram for this lexeme”. This property can be used on Tangut lexemes, although Tangut characters are technically not Han/CJK characters. They are part of a large family of Sinitic logogram-based scripts عُثمان (talk) 13:09, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

transliteration qualifier

@Deryck Chan, ArthurPSmith, Pintoch, Okkn:

I would like to use this property to display japanese lexemes with ruby annotations in my application. For instance

朝ご飯/あさごはん (L308507) should be transliterated with this markup:

<ruby>朝<rp>(</rp><rt>あさ</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby>ご<ruby>飯<rp>(</rp><rt>はん</rt><rp>)</rp></ruby>

to be displayed like this:

朝(あさ)ご飯(はん)

For this, I think I need a qualifier holding the transliteration: transliteration or transcription (P2440). For japanese revised Hepburn romanization (P2125) might also apply. But i was confused there was no special Kana transliteration property 🤷

Do you think this is a good idea? Should we have a different property for this?

This would be all I need if there will never be a lexeme that has a han character twice with a differing transliteration.

Bravefoot
Okkn (talk)
Camillu87
User:Araisyohei
Tris T7 ^{TT me}
higa4
Mcampany
Mzaki
NMaia
Siramatu
Mochimap
Spinster
Haansn08
Shisma(UTC)
Syunsyunminmin
Yirba

Notified participants of WikiProject Japan does such a lexeme exist? I'm thinking of phrases. If it does, I would also need a series ordinal (P1545) to specify which han character should hold which transliteration.

I made a mockup here: 朝ご飯

We would need to allow transliteration or transcription (P2440) as a qualifier for this property. Do you have any thoughts on this? --Shisma (talk) 10:04, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

I'm a fifth(!?)-language Japanese speaker and not familiar with Ruby so I'm not the best expert to consult here. My only comment is: please understand how en:wikt:Template:ja-r works and make your implementation compatible with it, such that it will be possible to perform automatic import from Wiktionary to WD Lexemes and automatic Lua generation from WD Lexemes back to Wiktionary. Deryck Chan (talk) 09:45, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Ping User:Shisma. Deryck Chan (talk) 09:45, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

interesting. so it if this is possible without additional data I withdraw my proposal-- Shisma (talk) 18:19, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

If that format is considered useful, in theory could add it as an additional variant to forms [1], but a distinct (new) property seems preferable. --- Jura 09:57, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

there is no one single ruby anotation that makes sense for every form and in every use case. For instance You can also write 朝(asa)ご(go)飯(han) to make the word readable for Latin readers. ah, and this is totally unrelated to Ruby (Q161053) 😅 -- Shisma (talk) 18:15, 10 February 2022 (UTC)