Wikidata:Property proposal/RILM ID
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RILM ID
[edit]Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Authority control
| Description | identifier for an entity in the Répertoire International de Littérature Musicale through VIAF |
|---|---|
| Represents | RILM Music Encyclopedias (Q104901723) |
| Data type | External identifier |
| Domain | human (Q5), work (Q386724) |
| Allowed values | [0-9]\d* |
| Example 1 | Aristides Quintilianus (Q378236) → 8701 |
| Example 2 | Camillo Togni (Q466647) → 17426 |
| Example 3 | Bill Evans (Q208205) → 108196 |
| Example 4 | Alexander Pushkin (Q7200) → 5265 (link works only in VIAF) |
| External links | Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt]. |
| Planned use | addition through moreIdentifiers, eventually maybe Mix'n'match |
| Number of IDs in source | about 11000 (growing) |
| Expected completeness | always incomplete (Q21873886) |
| Formatter URL | https://rme.rilm.org/topic/ibis/$1, https://viaf.org/processed/NYNYRILM%7C$1 (third party) |
| See also | RISM ID (P5504) |
| Single-value constraint | yes |
| Distinct-values constraint | yes |
| Wikidata project | Authority control |
Motivation
[edit]
Notified participants of WikiProject Authority control Répertoire International de Littérature Musicale (Q7386143) is one of the most important authority controls about music in the world; in the last days it has become VIAF member under the code NYNYRILM, so its data (otherwise not freely accessible) are partly available in VIAF processed pages.
Note: The subject item of the property can be improved: however, given that online I find no news regarding RILM becoming part of VIAF, ang given that this membership-page linked from VIAF homepage is blank, it is frankly unclear which RILM work (see list) has become VIAF member (maybe RILM Index to Printed Music (Q105421243)?). Epìdosis 09:34, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
Discussion
[edit]
Support -- Bargioni 🗣 09:40, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
Comment This is a quite tricky workaround for otherwise closed data. However, even on the second view the resolved entry is difficult to interpret (which fields, if any, stem from RILM?), and almost impossible to understand for users which are not familiar with the mechanisms of VIAF. In addition, it should be clear to which collection the ID links - hopefully, some documentation will be published. So I'd suggest to put this. --Jneubert (talk) 10:16, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
On hold- @Jneubert: The data from RILM are always all the ones from field 001 to field 670. I don't see any problem in creating a property for a library whose data are accessible only through VIAF (waiting for wider access), since there are plenty of examples: BAnQ authority ID (P3280), National Library of Chile ID (P7369), National Library of Luxembourg ID (P7028), Canadiana Name Authority ID (P8179), DBC author ID (P3846), EGAXA ID (P1309), ELNET ID (P6394), Lebanese National Library ID (P7026), Slovak National Library (VIAF) ID (P7700), National Library of Iceland ID (P7039), Flemish Public Libraries ID (P7024). Recent example: National Library of Russia ID (P7029), previously accessible only through VIAF, has now also an own access point. --Epìdosis 10:34, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- @Epìdosis: Thank you for making me aware that linking per VIAF alone is a widespread pattern (outside my apparent LOD-oriented bubble ...). What do you think about holding this property until we know more about the target collection? Perhaps, some information about person identifiers in RISM (for which VIAF also seems to have an index) and RILM could be useful - would be great if somebody more knowlegeable could add to this. --Jneubert (talk) 12:28, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- @Jneubert: For RISM situation is fortunately much clearer, since identifier present in VIAF are also accessible per se (e.g. this), so the work used is clear. Of course understanding which RILM work is involved would make the situation clearer, although I don't think this information makes much of a difference with regard to the creation of the property. Since between proposal and creation usually two weeks pass, I think we can wait this standard period hoping for some more information to emerge, and then create the property. Personally, if I find any useful information, I will post it here. --Epìdosis 13:37, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- @Jneubert: I think I've understood much more in the last minutes: so, the IDs present in VIAF are clearly from RILM Music Encyclopedias (Q104901723) (= https://rme.rilm.org/); specifically, these IDs are used (showing a very small part of the information sent to VIAF) for indexing different encyclopedia articles relative to the topic (e.g. this). The fact that one of the IDs in the examples above works only on VIAF and not on the website of RILM is still a bit mysterious; it may be due to the fact that, somewhere, RILM catalogs also people for which there are't (yet) articles in its set of encyclopedias. So, we have mostly understood where these IDs come from and we have a (mostly) efficient native formatter URL, besides the third party formatter URL of VIAF (which contains more information). --Epìdosis 13:56, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- @Epìdosis: Thank you very much for your research, and for proposing the property in the first place. The formatter use as described absolutely makes sense. Time to retract my "hold" suggestion above and Support the proposal. --Jneubert (talk) 15:08, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- BTW, VIAF partnerpage now working. --Epìdosis 14:04, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
- @Epìdosis: Thank you very much for your research, and for proposing the property in the first place. The formatter use as described absolutely makes sense. Time to retract my "hold" suggestion above and
- @Jneubert: I think I've understood much more in the last minutes: so, the IDs present in VIAF are clearly from RILM Music Encyclopedias (Q104901723) (= https://rme.rilm.org/); specifically, these IDs are used (showing a very small part of the information sent to VIAF) for indexing different encyclopedia articles relative to the topic (e.g. this). The fact that one of the IDs in the examples above works only on VIAF and not on the website of RILM is still a bit mysterious; it may be due to the fact that, somewhere, RILM catalogs also people for which there are't (yet) articles in its set of encyclopedias. So, we have mostly understood where these IDs come from and we have a (mostly) efficient native formatter URL, besides the third party formatter URL of VIAF (which contains more information). --Epìdosis 13:56, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- @Jneubert: For RISM situation is fortunately much clearer, since identifier present in VIAF are also accessible per se (e.g. this), so the work used is clear. Of course understanding which RILM work is involved would make the situation clearer, although I don't think this information makes much of a difference with regard to the creation of the property. Since between proposal and creation usually two weeks pass, I think we can wait this standard period hoping for some more information to emerge, and then create the property. Personally, if I find any useful information, I will post it here. --Epìdosis 13:37, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- @Epìdosis: Thank you for making me aware that linking per VIAF alone is a widespread pattern (outside my apparent LOD-oriented bubble ...). What do you think about holding this property until we know more about the target collection? Perhaps, some information about person identifiers in RISM (for which VIAF also seems to have an index) and RILM could be useful - would be great if somebody more knowlegeable could add to this. --Jneubert (talk) 12:28, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- @Jneubert: The data from RILM are always all the ones from field 001 to field 670. I don't see any problem in creating a property for a library whose data are accessible only through VIAF (waiting for wider access), since there are plenty of examples: BAnQ authority ID (P3280), National Library of Chile ID (P7369), National Library of Luxembourg ID (P7028), Canadiana Name Authority ID (P8179), DBC author ID (P3846), EGAXA ID (P1309), ELNET ID (P6394), Lebanese National Library ID (P7026), Slovak National Library (VIAF) ID (P7700), National Library of Iceland ID (P7039), Flemish Public Libraries ID (P7024). Recent example: National Library of Russia ID (P7029), previously accessible only through VIAF, has now also an own access point. --Epìdosis 10:34, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- Comment The link for Prokofiev seems to link to Puschkin. --Jneubert (talk) 10:17, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- My error, solved. --Epìdosis 10:34, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
- Support now that the hold request is resolved. - PKM (talk) 00:40, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
- Support. It seems for some entitities RILM fails to load. I guess these are entries which are present in a lot of encyclopedias. I tried Chopin and it failed to load aswell. A search reveals quite some entries in RILM. So likely just a misconfiguration on their end which will hopefully get fixed.--Sotho Tal Ker (talk) 00:58, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
- Support --Carlobia (talk) 09:15, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
