Talk:Adrian Cole (RAAF officer)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Adrian Cole (RAAF officer)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Hi there, I am happy to tell you that this article has passed GA without the need for any further improvement. Listed below is information on how the article fared against the Wikipedia:good article criteria, with suggestions for future development. These are not required to achieve GA standard, but they might help in future A-class or FAC review process.

• It is reasonably well written.

  a (prose): b (MoS):

• "he spent time recuperating, and required plastic surgery" - these clauses seem to be the wrong way round, and the "he spent time recuperating" is slightly oddly phrased - any idea how much time?
• "Captain Hippolyte De La Rue" and "General Douglas Macarthur" - Don't link the rank as well as the name.

• It is factually accurate and verifiable.

  a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

• It is broad in its coverage.

  a (major aspects): b (focused):

• "a total of ten victories including one brought down in Palestine" - I'd mention the Palestine victory in the section that describes his operations in Palestine, and I'd be interested to see more information about his kills (I know there is some more below, but it seems like it would be worth giving some extra details.)

• It follows the neutral point of view policy.

  a (fair representation): b (all significant views):

• It is stable.

  

• It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.

  a (tagged and captioned): b (lack of images does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):

• Overall:

  a Pass/Fail:

Thankyou and congratulations, an excellent addition to Wikipedia:Good Articles. All the best.--Jackyd101 (talk) 23:28, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Just for the record, all suggestions above have been acted upon one way or another. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:48, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Richmond House

Ian, I understand that Adrian built (had built) Richmond House during 36-37, which was fortunately saved from the vandals quite recently. It has been suggested that the final result was somewhat more luxurious than planned. I have a feeling that IBG knows a bit about the history. Do you think it worth including in the article? Lexysexy (talk) 23:56, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Lexy, my apologies for not responding to this earlier, must've missed it at the time... I'd be happy to include something on this but have to admit I'm at a loss about "IBG" as a source... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 09:32, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Heh, for talk page readers I can belatedly add here that I did, with some help from Lexy, eventually divine who "IBG" is -- but do we have a documented "reliable" source for this in order to add to the article, which I note is to be TFA on 19 June? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 21:35, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Forenames

As there seems to be some confusion about the order of Cole's names (even his daughter Sonia has recorded them out of order, as has the AWM), exacerbated by Cole's habit of dropping "Lindley" on occasion (eg, on his enlistment papers), it is worth noting that his Birth Certificate shows "Adrian Lindley Trevor" as the order at birth.Lexysexy (talk) 09:16, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Well we have the correct order per the birth certificate in the article (probably from his ADB entry) so I guess we can just leave it as is, yep? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 09:32, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Decorations and Categories

Does anyone have an explanation for the DFC (awarded by Australians to Australians) is shown as among the categories as DFC(United Kingdom) whereas the MC (awarded by Australians to Australians) doesn't have that superfluous tag?Lexysexy (talk) 06:28, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi Lexy. I've always understood the "(United Kingdom)" to simply be a way of disambiguating the Imperial DFC from the US DFC. Since there's only one MC, no such disambiguation is necessary -- it doesn't have anything to do with who recommends or awards them. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:44, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Ian, I see where you're going. However, my argument is that although the DFC as we knew it was contained within what is now known as the Imperial system (to differentiate from the newer Australian system), it nevertheless was an Australian award that London simply ticked and noted. Are you aware of any occasion where London knocked back an Australian decision in this respect? In other words, in my view it was only a UK award in the sense that we were a Dominion, not in the sense that the UK decided it.122.111.70.118 (talk) 08:40, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Adrian Cole (RAAF officer). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111006082301/http://airpower.airforce.gov.au/Publications/Details/241/How-Not-To-Run-An-Air-Force-Volume-1.aspx to http://airpower.airforce.gov.au/Publications/Details/241/How-Not-To-Run-An-Air-Force-Volume-1.aspx

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:57, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Adrian Cole (RAAF officer). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090930031539/http://www.dha.gov.au/publications/victoria.pdf to http://www.dha.gov.au/publications/victoria.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:46, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 9 external links on Adrian Cole (RAAF officer). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090416023010/http://www.aif.adfa.edu.au:8080/showPerson?pid=57302 to http://www.aif.adfa.edu.au:8080/showPerson?pid=57302
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090621132256/http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/9/chapters/05.pdf to http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/9/chapters/05.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090621132256/http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/9/chapters/05.pdf to http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/9/chapters/05.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120311091257/http://cas.awm.gov.au/photograph/P01034.050 to http://cas.awm.gov.au/photograph/P01034.050
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151007144952/https://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/26/chapters/01.pdf to http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/26/chapters/01.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150713214330/https://static.awm.gov.au/images/collection/pdf/RCDIG1070476--1-.pdf to https://static.awm.gov.au/images/collection/pdf/RCDIG1070476--1-.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160305195334/https://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/28/chapters/13.pdf to http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/28/chapters/13.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150427164944/https://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/27/chapters/07.pdf to http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/27/chapters/07.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150427164944/https://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/27/chapters/07.pdf to http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/27/chapters/07.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:13, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 13 external links on Adrian Cole (RAAF officer). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090621132313/http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/9/chapters/38.pdf to http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/9/chapters/38.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090621132644/http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/9/chapters/04.pdf to http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/9/chapters/04.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160305141644/https://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/awm28/2/116/0014.pdf to http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/awm28/2/116/0014.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090621132402/http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/9/chapters/06.pdf to http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/9/chapters/06.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090621132046/http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/9/chapters/23.pdf to http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/9/chapters/23.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090621132211/http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/9/chapters/24.pdf to http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/9/chapters/24.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090621132211/http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/9/chapters/24.pdf to http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/9/chapters/24.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160305135641/https://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/awm28/2/117/0038.pdf to http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/awm28/2/117/0038.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150402231823/https://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/26/chapters/34.pdf to http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/26/chapters/34.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160305195208/https://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/26/chapters/10.pdf to http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/26/chapters/10.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160305194127/https://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/awm192/00312/003120419.pdf to http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/awm192/00312/003120419.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150402163722/https://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/29/chapters/12.pdf to http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/29/chapters/12.pdf
• Added archive https://www.webcitation.org/5inmifhva?url=http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/27/chapters/14.pdf to http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/27/chapters/14.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:14, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Retirement

Ian, as you are the primary author, I seek your view on whether detail of the scandalous retirement of the dozen or so very senior officers forcibly retired at the end of the war, leaving only George Jones from that seniority zone. I have recently come across a book by a legal officer, These Things Happened by F F Knight, (The Hawthorn Press 1975) who details, for instance, the government's mistreatment of Bostock and Cole's retirement pay. You quote the government position "to make room for younger men." Knight says: "At first the press welcomed this policy, but became bitterly critical within two months when the real import of the purge became apparent." and "....that nearly all those concerned were being "given bowler hats" before they had reached the retiring ages of their ranks without any official recognition of their good work, and without adequate compensation." It seems that they were somehow in the gun of Drakeford, Minister for Air, but I haven't tracked down more attributable detail there yet. Do you think it is of encyclopedic interest to deal with this matter?Lexysexy (talk) 06:50, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Hi there, were you thinking in terms of more detail in this particular article or a separate article on the matter as a whole? I don't think there's too much more to add re. Cole's situation... The fullest accounts of the whole thing are probably in Stephens' Going Solo, since it of course forms an important part of the early post-war history of the RAAF, and Helson's The Private Air Marshal, as a bio of George Jones. From these I get the impression that the government was looking at retiring senior officers (in all three services, not just the RAAF) from as early as 1943. Jones was making his recommendations to Drakeford on who to retire and why from 1944. Many of his reasons do seem somewhat -- to use Richard Williams' word -- specious, even petty and jealous. That said, Jones appears to have had a more-than-willing accomplice in Drakeford, and indeed in Chifley. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:42, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

OK, no worries. I wont be around for a while, so no chance of a special article. It was not so much the forced retirement as the cheating of retirement benefits that I was interested in, together with the political doublespeak (what's changed?). Jones in his autobiography glosses over the situation by parroting the Minister's words about how much money the retirees received - neglecting completely that the money was mostly their own deferred pay, and was in any case substantially less than government statements claimed. It can't be argued against that there had to be reductions when the service numbers dropped from 130,000 to about 10,000 or thereabouts, but they should have been given either decent separation pay or sinecure appointments just as Jones himself was in later years. All good,Lexysexy (talk) 09:50, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Stephens and Helson touch on the compensation part. Another one for that is Coulthard-Clark's McNamara VC, which mentions how disgusted Frank was with his severance (might even include the figures). Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:01, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

WP:URFA/2020

The image layout here is not optimal, per MOS:SANDWICH, but I can't find an easy way to fix it myself. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:35, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Agree with Sandy, the layout is pretty messy. @Ian Rose: - Two ideas for fixing this might be to list only the wars in the infobox, instead of the individual campaigns, as the infobox is pretty long. Another way might be to remove an image. Marking as satisfactory for URFA, with this note about layout. Hog Farm _Talk 17:37, 26 April 2021 (UTC)