Talk:Beijing–Shanghai high-speed railway

Sources

http://www.ritchiewiki.com/wiki/index.php/Beijing-Shanghai_Express_Railway —Preceding unsigned comment added by Loop 9 (talk • contribs) 11:30, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the pointer. As per [1], content on RitchieWiki is "free of copyright", so I've merged in the article. Jpatokal (talk) 02:46, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Naming?

"Jinghu" may be the Chinese name, but is this being used at all in English and what is this "chinese railway naming convention"? Per WP:COMMON, I suspect Beijing-Shanghai is the right name. See also eg. Beijing–Tianjin Intercity Railway, not "Jingtian". Jpatokal (talk) 11:16, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Please join the discussion at Talk:Wuhan-Guangzhou High-Speed Railway. Python eggs (talk) 11:20, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

The discussion concluded that "Wuhan-Guangzhou" is preferred over "Wuguang", so I have reverted the move. However, this should be hammered out definitively at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese)#Railway naming, please contribute to the discussion there. Jpatokal (talk) 01:38, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Jpatokal, Chinese naming follows the abbreviations for cities. some of these abbreviations are within the name, some are not. So it Beijing-Tianjin would be Jingjin (京津), never Jingtian (京天). --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 21:25, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

What about slower 200 - 250 km/h trains? Will there be two speed classes?

Does anybody know whether there will also be slower trains, operating at 200 to 250 km/h, on the Beijing-Shanghai line? I had understood, from press articles appearing approximately 14 April 2011 quoting the Ministry of Railways, that a class of slower trains would also be operated on the line, at different fares (and presumably lower fares, in response to complaints that the 300 km/h to 380 km/h trains were too expensive). Does anyone know anything about this? If there are such trains, then surely they would not use CRH380 rolling stock, which is overpowered for such service. But the only CRH trains that I know of which are designed for 250 km/h or less are the CRH1 and CRH5 series, and I have heard no reports that those Bombardier-derived or Alstom-derived trains will operate on the Beijing - Shanghai high speed line.

• Any information?
• If anybody knows the answers to these questions, it would be helpful to incorporate them in the article.

Prospero10 (talk) 20:08, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Go and check any train schedule, they are all out there. Python eggs (talk) 20:35, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Moved unsuitable information from article page

I have moved the following content from the article proper since they appear to be tourist information. ANGCHENRUI _WP:MSE♨ 12:54, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

First day in service

The train schedule on the first day of service will be different, as the line will not be opened until 3pm. The first trains, numbered G1/2, will depart from Beijing South and Shanghai Hongqiao stations from both directions at 15:00 on June 30, 2011, and arrive in their terminal stations at 20:09 (G1) or 20:02 (G2), with stops in Langfang (G1 only), Tianjin South, Jinan West, Bengbu South (G1 only) and Nanjing South. CRH380BL will serve G1 from Beijing South to Shanghai Hongqiao and CRH380AL will serve G2 from Shanghai Hongqiao to Beijing South, both are 16-car trains each capable of carrying over 1000 passengers. Due to the opening ceremony, passengers holding G1 ticket are required to arrive in Beijing South earlier than usual. Ticket check will open at 13:50 and close at 14:20, 40 minutes before the departure. Following G1's departure at 3pm, more trains will be also available on that day. There will be around ten further trains on the full line between Beijing and Shanghai in each direction, with one train also running from Beijing to Hangzhou.

On the first day, there will be also three 250-km/h D-series trains running on the line. They are: D237 from Beijing South to Jinan West, D254 from Shanghai Hongqiao to Jinan West, and D5432 from Shanghai Hongqiao to Xuzhou East.

References

Speed change

The speed change from 329 km/h to 300 km/h is mentioned in the WP:LEDE but not the article. More importantly no explaination is offered other then it came after the minister was fired. Was there some suggestion of safety issues or the cost too high or was no explaination offered (the sources are in Chinese). Also it says the original plan was for a nonstop service but according to a later part of the article the current service has one stop. Nil Einne (talk) 13:43, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

No, the newspaper XINHUA NEWS in its report 'Premier Wen boards bullet train as Beijing-Shanghai high speed rail starts operation,' dated June 30, 2011, says that He Huawu, the chief engineer of the (Chinese) Ministry of Railways, "dismissed rumors that the railway's operating speed was cut due to safety concerns." Xinhua quotes chief engineer He Huawu as saying that "The adjustment to the operating speed of the railway was made to meet people's needs, to increase transport capacity and to reduce costs and energy consumption."

Explanation: the Ministry of Railways announced in April 2011 that slower trains with speed 250 km/h would also be operated on the Beijing-Shanghai high-speed line in addition to the fastest 300 km/h trains, and that trains of different speeds would have different and lower fares (this is "to meet people's needs," in response to complaints that fares on the new high-speed trains were too high). Now, it is well known that the capacity of any rail line is increased if all trains travel at the same speed or if differences in speed decrease. Thus if the line carries 250 km/h trains then decreasing the speed of faster trains from 380 km/h to 300 km/h will increase the line capacity. Concerning operating costs, the energy consumption of a train increases with speed (elementary physics says that bringing an object up to a speed of 380 km/h requires 60 percent more energy than bringing it to a speed of 300 km/h, and once it is moving the aerodynamic drag of a high speed train increases according to the square of its velocity) - so cutting train speed from 380 km/h to 300 km/h yields an energy saving well over 20 percent, which saves in operating costs.

However, Premier Wen Jiabao is also quoted by XINHUA as saying that "Railway managers must give top priority to the safety (of operations," so safety is kept in mind. As an additional remark, cutting railway energy consumption is helpful due to China's current shortage of electrical generating capacity, which has created power outages in some places.

What is phenomenal is that the entire 820 mile railway was built in 38 months. In the US, in 35 years we have barely upgraded the Northeast Corridor. Prospero10 (talk) 21:30, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

20% grade?

The infobox says a 20% grade, highly unlikely for most rail service, and even more so for a high speed train.--DThomsen8 (talk) 15:37, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

It didn't says 20%, but 20‰, please read carefully. Python eggs (talk) 15:42, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Then we need to define what that means. Most people are familiar with percent (%); I don't even have a glyph for the 0/00 symbol you used. Let's state the ruling grade (as train people call it) in units ordinary folk can understand. And even type. ;-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.124.25.84 (talk) 16:03, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Even better, I found a reference and fixed it myself. Cheers! Oliver — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.124.25.84 (talk) 16:16, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Construction speed

The speed with which the track was laid sounds very impressive. Is this some sort of record? Thanks, Wanderer57 (talk) 18:04, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

More Photos

can anyone update the page with photos about how it looks like inside super fast trains that run on these High speed railway tracks?

Lokesh 2000 (talk) 08:11, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

I have put two links into the 'Rolling Stock' section, which access plenty of photos - Prospero10 (talk) 03:40, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

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Why isn't the crash included on this page?

I was surprised to see no mention of the July crash that killed 40 people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.112.106.155 (talk) 16:34, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Because it is covered on the page for the Ningbo–Taizhou–Wenzhou Railway, which is where it happened. As well as, of course, on the main page, High-speed rail in China. -- Vmenkov (talk) 19:32, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Conventional rail connections

we should change the high speed rail transfers to china railways transfers and label both conventional and high speed rail line transfers. They can both be differentiated by a little CRH or china railways logo. like in the Taiwan High Speed Rail table — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steve chiu (talk • contribs) 02:25, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

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121.75.123.4 (talk) 00:59, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 5 November 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved per consensus, and per WP:VPPOL#RFC on Chinese railway station title/style conventions. —usernamekiran(talk) 04:06, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

---

Beijing–Shanghai High-Speed Railway → Beijing–Shanghai high-speed railway – Title is descriptive, not a proper name (see Talk:Beijing–Shanghai High-Speed Railway#Naming?); sources don't cap it. Dicklyon (talk) 05:57, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Comment It is a proper name. It did not cover the whole history of railway from Shanghai to Beijing and how they upgrade speed over the year. The High-Speed Railway is a new construction. Matthew_hk tc 07:23, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

What sources do you see in support of your interpretation that it's a proper name? The discussion that I linked suggests that it is a description arrived at via a convention. Dicklyon (talk) 19:10, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

chinadaily (not sure why title in lowercase and intext upper), the operating company, CCTV Matthew_hk tc 22:54, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

The first and third both use lowercase (at least sometimes); and the second is about the "Beijing-Shanghai High-Speed Railway Co., Ltd." If we make the article about the company, then maybe we'd cap it. But it's about the rail line, not the company, as written. Dicklyon (talk) 00:50, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

• Support—Wikipedia doesn't cap unless it's a rea proper name, Matthew (like the company's name). Otherwise, it's just a rail line. We'd be capping everything in sight like "Macintosh Computer" if that were the case. Tony (talk) 00:56, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

  Comment computer is a massive produce product. Railway is not. The railway bureau grouped a specific route as a set with proper name, not all X to Y destination that you can buy for a ticket have a proper name . Matthew_hk tc 01:48, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

• Support, per MOS:CAPS, WP:NCCAPS, MOS:TM. If sources do not consistently capitalize this, then WP doesn't either. We don't care what the house style of CHMRailway.com is; it is not our house style.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  16:13, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
• Comment @SMcCandlish, Matthew hk, Tony1, and Dicklyon: I have begun an RfC on the naming of Chinese railway line articles which will affect this RM, so it may be sensible to wait until the RfC has ended to close this discussion. Jc86035 (talk) 09:32, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

  You've supported downcasing there, and also at the case RFC that I started, and almost nobody is arguing for caps, so might as well let this go through. It won't interfere with anything. Dicklyon (talk) 17:12, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

• Comment – The RFC at WP:VPPOL#RFC on Chinese railway station title/style conventions has closed in favor of using normal case conventions for Chinese stations. Doing similarly for railways, lines, and such seems equally logical. Most of the other Chinese high-speed railways were downcased this way without objections. Dicklyon (talk) 06:59, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

---

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