Talk:Ikari Warriors

Front Line

"Ikari Warriors was the first to use rotary joysticks: those which could be rotated in addition to being pushed in eight directions". Is this certain ? I remember playing in a Front Line machine that had a rotary joystick. But it was after 1986 so the machine could be adapted. I also think that Ikari Warriors and Commando were inspired by the older Front Line (1982)

Front Line used a standard 8-way joystick to control player movement, plus an 8-position switch similar to a "spinner" which was used to aim, and could be pushed down (in the manner of a button) to fire. It also had an ordinary button for throwing hand grenades.

This article is wrong however. Ikari Warriors was not the first game to use rotary joysticks; SNK's TNK III (1985) was (it worked with the same Seimitsu/SNK LS-30 joysticks that Ikari Warriors used). I suppose that Ikari Warriors could be said to be the first popular game to use rotary joysticks. – MaximRecoil (talk) 05:21, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, I couldn't find any evidence that TNK III used a rotary joystick (I didn't find anything to the contrary either, however). If you can find some verifiable material that demonstrates TNK III used a rotary joystick, you can add that "popular" qualifier to the article. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 12:03, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

There are some sources, however, I don't know if I can find a definitive source. For example, there is a picture of the boardset here - http://www.ggdb.com/Picture.aspx?c=Coin-Op&s=Arcade&vid=3120&p=6839 - where you can clearly see the two 13-pin connectors for the attachment of the two LS-30 wiring harnesses (two white connectors, upper right-hand side of the boardset). You'll find those connectors on all gameboards that use the LS-30 or equivalent mechanical rotary joystick (Wico and Happ make/made an LS-30 compatible rotary joystick as well, and perhaps other companies did). I own 4 different rotary game boardsets (Ikari Warriors, Victory Road, Heavy Barrel, and Guerrilla War) which I swap in and out of my Ikari Warriors machine, so I'm very familiar with those connectors.

Also, you'll find TNK III listed on every "rotary game list" out there; here is one example - http://mame.hower.us/rotary/. Here is another - http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Joysticks#Mechanical_Rotary_joystick_games_.28LS-30.2C_Happ_Mechanical_Rotary_sticks.29.

There is also this - http://vintagearcade.net/ClassicArcadeGames/1_video_games/TNK3.php.

I realize that these may not be ideal or even usable sources. However, I can't seem to find a scan of the TNK III manual. I can look around some more though.

Edit: There is also this page - http://maws.mameworld.info/minimaws/set/tnk3 - which has an image of the control panel. If you look closely you can see the joystick with a hexagonal handle which seems to be an early version of the LS-30. Also, you can see the instructions on the control panel around the joystick, which show curved rotation arrows and the text "ROTATE CANNON" between the arrows. It also shows the standard 8-directional arrows to indicate the standard 8-way function of the joystick. So we have a joystick that works as a normal 8-way joystick to control movement of the tank, and its handle also twists in either direction to aim the cannon independently of the direction of tank movement. That is a rotary joystick. – MaximRecoil (talk) 05:33, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'm not an expert on what is permissible and what is not. I would have settled for a control photo from KLOV. While they have an image of the cabinet (I think), the control panel is not clearly visible. The one image you have doesn't look like a joystick--it looks just like a dial. Let's see what other editors have to say. You could bring this up at the Video Game WikiProject, though, since this article isn't heavily watched. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 21:47, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

It is a joystick; that's what the 8 directional arrows on the CPO are for. If it were not a joystick, there would be no way to move the tank. In any event, after asking about this on the KLOV forums, someone linked me to a post where someone was selling a TNK III boardset along with two rotary joysticks that go along with it. Here is the link to the thread - http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=119386. Now his attached images will not be visible to you if you are not registered there, so here is a link to images of the SNK rotary joystick that he's including with the boardset - http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4044/4549896234_6b413331a4_b.jpg.

As you can see, it is identical to a normal Seimitsu/SNK LS-30, except for the short, fat, black handle. See the following page for pictures of the usual yellow handled LS-30 as used in Ikari Warriors and other rotary games, for comparison - http://rototron.info/LS30.aspx. You can also note the 13-pin connector for the rotary switch harness that plugs into the joystick, and into the boardset (into the 13-pin connectors that I mentioned previously). – MaximRecoil (talk) 03:16, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, okay, but I don't know how you're going to use all that as a reliable reference. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 21:36, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't know either. I did buy that TNK III boardset & rotary joysticks from the guy in the thread I linked to (another rotary game to use in my Ikari Warriors cabinet; won't need to use the joysticks that come with it; the LS-30s already in my cabinet are fine); so maybe I can think of something once it arrives. If you had the boardset, joysticks, and a cabinet to use them in; how would you go about deriving a reliable reference from that? Or is it even possible? Would it be considered "original research"? Sometimes Wikipedia's rules regarding references are counter-productive if the goal is accurate information.

Another possibility is; in the game itself there is an animation showing how the controllers work. How about an animated .GIF made from that? Would that count?

Edit: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3553/4553445009_6598bce44f_o.gif. As you can see, it shows the tank moving, and accompanies the movement with arrows around the joystick, which correspond with the direction the tank is moving, lighting up. Then it shows the tank's cannon rotating, and it accompanies that with the pointer on the handle rotating in a corresponding manner. – MaximRecoil (talk) 06:45, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

That's a nice animation, but it doesn't show that the joystick is moved to move the tank. I don't really doubt that you do, but it's not really proof. Please don't rely on my opinion alone on this. Go on over to the the Project and get the opinion of some of the members there. You can point to this discussion if you like. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 18:00, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

The tank first moves in a northwest direction, and while it does, the northwest arrow turns red. It then moves east, and the east arrow turns red. Then it moves southwest, and the southwest arrow turns red. That is showing that to move the tank, you push the joystick in the direction in which you want the tank to move. Note that the controller is specifically labeled as a "joy stick". In the context of video games, a joystick by definition, is moved to move something onscreen.

I'll go ahead and mention it on the WikiProject Video games page, as you suggested. – MaximRecoil (talk) 23:51, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

About sources. Well, these are not truly sources [1] [2], anything you would conclude from this would be OR. [3] is tetriary source which doesn't list it's sources. Forum [4] isn't a source. Given this is a rather obscure fact, [5], [6], [7] are closest to usable.

Possibly usable Ikari Warriors refs: [8], [9], [10]. Probably unusable refs [11], [12]. Sorry for this comment being a bit useless for your needs. —  Hellknowz  ▎talk  01:15, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I may have found something. How about this [13]? That is the flyer for TNK III under its alternate title of T.A.N.K. (THE WORLD WARS. TANK STORY. EPISODE III). Click on the second image and look at the bottom of it. It shows the top of the joystick, with the rotation arrows along with the 8-way directional arrows. It describes it as: "Transfer lever as well as turret turning knob". It also further describes the control (middle, right-hand side of the image):

"The operation lever is a special one (attached to the product) which takes into consideration the special features of a tank. An advanced new method has been adopted to handle a transfer or turret turning with one lever. Enjoy to your heart's content, a flexible operation which you have never experienced before."

Not only is that a source for TNK III using what is commonly called a "rotary joystick", but it is also a source for TNK III being the first to do so (i.e., "[...] new method", "[...] which you have never experienced before.")

What do you think? – MaximRecoil (talk) 02:12, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Okay, well, if there are no objections, I'm going to use that flyer as a reference and fix the article. – MaximRecoil (talk) 11:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

MAME

Are there any ideas on how one might control this in MAME? If you have a sort of PS2 dual-shock-like controller with two analog joysticks, would it be possible to control movement on one stick and facing direction on the other?

I was going to ask the same thing. The answers appears to be here: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.mame/msg/5d79eae4c2ca868a Captain Zyrain 17:34, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Alternate Names

I distinctly remember that Clark and Ralf had different names in the NES version of Ikari Warriors. They were referred to as "Paul" and "Vince." Does anyone know what prompted the name change, and has SNK ever attempted to explain it? M.Neko

Cleanup

The articles for the sequels need work. They both came out in arcades first.

Sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_Line_%28arcade_game%29

http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=F&game_id=7859

tanks

it was the first shooting to allow the use of tanks if i remember correctly. actually halo is a rippof. Paris By Night 00:20, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

No, Front Line was a shooting game which allowed the use of tanks, and was released about four years prior to Ikari Warriors. I don't know what the very first game was that allowed you to jump into a tank (it might have been Front Line). There were of course even older games in which you were always in a tank, such as Tank from 1974. – MaximRecoil (talk) 18:05, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Frontline is incredibly similar to Ikari. 2fort5r (talk) 12:02, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, Front Line seems to have been the main inspiration for Ikari Warriors, much more so than Commando – MaximRecoil (talk) 06:29, 4 May 2010 (UTC).

Ending

For those who played this game but never got to the end. Here is what happens (at least on the Atari ST): The scenery starts off in the jungle, it eventually moves to village like scenery and then you walk through what seems like high rise military type buildings. All the while the enemy attacks in the same fashion so there is nothing new there. Eventually you reach a very large tank and after that you see a really weird looking creature (kind of monkey looking or maybe alien) hooked up to a bunch of cannons firing. once you kill him you get to this giant sergeant (he takes up half the screen) and the game ends with the words similar to (i don't remember exactly): you have rescued sergeant someone or other and you receive 10000 points.

Actually, he's a corpse. According to the uncensored version, it may be Hitler's body. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.31.119.161 (talk) 09:19, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

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