Talk:Leopard

Did you know nomination

{{Did you know nominations/Leopard}}

The weight record of an African leopard was 112 kg not 96 kg according to a Quora document about African leopards

An African leopard was shot in the Angolan rain forest on a scale it weighted 112 kg or 246 pounds: https://www.quora.com/Can-a-Boerboel-kill-a-leopard-since-it-s-bigger/answer/Andres-1057?ch=18&oid=268347885&share=804f4402&srid=ukZgd&target_type=answer

2A02:8440:3417:7C9A:0:56:C2F3:D501 (talk) 21:10, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

That's unreliable and the image was edited aswell Menvidas (talk) 05:55, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Atlas mountain African Leopard

It's a well known fact that a small group of African Leopards continue to live in the Atlas Mountains of North Africa between Morocco and Algeria. I understand that a reliable source explains that the Leopard is extinct there. However, this fact in the article is incorrect.

Could someone please help in altering the text with reference to explain that Morocco does have a Leopard population, and they are not extinct there? The image in the infobox would need changing, as well as the text. Cltjames (talk) 13:34, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

It's a well known fact means nothing on Wikipedia. Find reliable sources that prove this, and then add the appropriate text to the article along with a citation using WP:REFB. - UtherSRG (talk) 13:55, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

I agree with UtherSRG : an alleged sighting without any photographic evidence published in a local newspaper does NOT make this claim a well known fact. A reliable source would be e.g. a peer-reviewed journal. BhagyaMani (talk) 14:00, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

The source that you, Cltjames, just added clearly states Atlas Leopard in Morocco. Status: Possibly Extinct. Last Record: 1983 (Drucker, 1991). So this source corroborates that it is EXTINCT in the Atlas mountains. BhagyaMani (talk) 14:41, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

The source also states that the are unconfirmed sightings, which is adequate for the article, is it not? Cltjames (talk) 14:46, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

This journal is published by the author himself, so does not meet the criteria of a reliable source. UtherSRG: your thoughts? BhagyaMani (talk) 14:47, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

As its a self-published source that means it's not a reliable source so we shouldn't use it. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:49, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Page 4 of the text, Henschel et al., 2008, Fabrice Cuzin 2007, Jacobson, et al. 2016; Luipaard, 2020 and Busby et al. (2009). They all verify unconfirmed sightings, and then in the newspaper article I found, footprints of Leopards in the Atlas Mountains in the past few years. If 'Research Gate' cannot be used as a RS, then would someone help in finding these confirmations I found in the text... ? Cltjames (talk) 14:54, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

@UtherSRG:@BhagyaMani:What about this text or this website or this peer reviewed website  ?? Cltjames (talk) 15:03, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Busby et al. (2009) referred to a single scat sample collected in 2005 in southeastern Algeria that was identified as being of a leopard by DNA analysis, but with a caveat. They also admitted that the leopard was not recorded in this area ever before. Jacobson et al. (2016) showed areas in Morocco and northern Algeria, where the leopard is possibly extinct and the small area reported by Busby et al. (2009) as possibly present, see Fig. 1A. Hence, none of these 2 sources confirm its presence in the Atlas mountains. BhagyaMani (talk) 17:39, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

@BhagyaMani The third source is peer reviewed and confirms the Leopord is 99% extinct, but explains 1% survived extinction in North Africa, which adds up to finds of rare sightings in the Atlas mountains. So, this is worth noting to explain the situation correctly. Currently, the article facts are misleading, and need updating. Cltjames (talk) 17:53, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

@BhagyaMani: I don't understand why you reverted? The section needs an overhaul to explain the situation correctly in North and West Africa... The reference is already in the text but is not explained correctly... I don't want an edit war, please respect the reference as a whole and explain your thought process.. Cltjames (talk) 09:58, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Did you not yet notice that I added this to the main text? BhagyaMani (talk) 13:04, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

@BhagyaMani:OK thanks for adding now, I was in a hurry and only responded to the revert. I updated the facts more specifically, your text did not match the reference. However, now there is a contradiction regarding the African Leopard. As in the Leopard#Distribution and habitat section, it rightfully explains there is an enormous decline, but still a population in West Africa, then in the Leopard#Conservation section it says the population is extinct in Morocco. Therefore the text does not add up and is not correctly supported by the references presented, as the Jacobson et al references show there is a small population in the Atlas Mountains of Morocco, but conservation website says it is extinct, this is why the note I added was properly suited to the statement of extinction... This issue need to be rectified. Cltjames (talk) 14:16, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Record leopard from Botswana

I guess it's time to change the weight of the record leopard from Africa. While now the heaviest is 96 kg, I have got a reliable record from Tony Sanchez Ariño (a professional experienced hunter) who in 1992 hunted with Chris Collins a 100 kg (220 lbs) leopard. The skull score was compared to SCI records and ranked from 6th to 9th place, indicating a score ranging from 460 to 473 mm (length+width). Source : Hunting in Botswana (Page 413) - Tony Sanchez Ariño

Keep in mind Tony Sanchez is world respected as a reliable source, so that even a scientific study and Almeida mentioned him in their works Menvidas (talk) 05:54, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Merge proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was Not merged. WP:SNOW. SilverLocust 💬 22:04, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

---

I consider merging Black panther into Leopard because the article has a lot to do with leopards and too small information about jaguars. Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 06:49, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

I think the article Black panther be merged into this article as it has a close relationship with this article. Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 07:03, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

The Blank panther reads as quite a specific subtopic, I am not sure how it would fit into this article. What are you proposing, for there to be a separate section here on black melanin? CMD (talk) 08:02, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

You don't understand why I am doing this merge, let alone that I am making a section in the article Leopard on black panthers and not melanin. Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 17:49, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

• That article seems quite extensive enough to stand on its own, and it's nice to have the melanism of both leopard and jaguar covered in one place. Don't see the need for merging. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 09:04, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

  You also don't understand what I am doing this merge for. It is because the article Black panther, if you read it properly, seems to be a 'mimic' article of Leopard with a little bit of info about melanistic jaguars.You also don't understand that I am expressing the article Black panther into a few very descriptive sentences that will also include info about the concept on jaguars. Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 17:59, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Black panthers are just melanistic leopards. The information about the thing on jaguars can just as easily be told in this article as it would if it stands by itself. So sorry, you lost the plot. Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 14:47, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

There are several species whose melanistic form is called a "black panther", not just leopards. It makes no sense to have information about melanistic jaguars or melanistic tigers in this article. - UtherSRG (talk) 20:12, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I will just put it in a short text that can properly explain facts about black panthers on the Leopard-Wikipedia page. Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 15:09, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

The article Black panther mainly tells about melanistic leopards and not enough about jaguars, making it a 'mirror' article about melanistic leopards. I strongly suggest that the merge should be done due to this. I will, if I have consensus, add a small paragraph on this article Leopard that tells, in a few sentences, clearly about black panthers and black jaguars. Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 19:00, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Additionally, the paragraph will be, most likely, be told in the 'characteristics' section of this article. Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 19:06, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose: Black panthers also refer to black jaguars. There not being enough information on jaguars in the article does mean anything. That can be corrected. LittleJerry (talk), 11 September 2024
• Oppose merging and also trimming as content is sufficient for a stand-alone page. – BhagyaMani (talk) 09:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Users still don't understand why I am considering this merge. It would be pointless if the article Black panther was to stand alone because the information about black jaguars in this article can easily be told in this article. You don't understand, BaghyhaMani. Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 14:45, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

You are the one who does not understand or refuses to recognize the arguments of other editors. BhagyaMani (talk) 15:07, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

This article is about the leopard. Why would we add information about black jaguars? LittleJerry (talk) 15:29, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Because it's easy to explain in this article, and I, if I was you, would add the word Jaguar, or Jaguars, in brackets. So what are you thinking? Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 15:38, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Because it's easy to explain in this article, and I, if I was you, would add the word Jaguar, or Jaguars, in brackets. So what are you thinking? Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 15:43, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

BhagyaMani, they just don't know why I am considering this merge. I see that it duplicates information about melanistic leopards with some information about melanistic jaguars. Most users just don't know that. Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 15:19, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I think you're in your own world. Wolverine XI ^{(talk to me)} 15:39, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

What do you mean, Wolverine XI? Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 15:52, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I find it crazy that one person keeps making the same vague argument over and over again. It appears as though you are attempting to find the value of 4 in this equation [x² + 4x – 5]. In other words, your argument makes 0 sense to me. But that's just me; don't take my comment too seriously. Wolverine XI ^{(talk to me)} 16:29, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Indeed. And their actions have probably crossed the WP:BLUDGEON threshold. - UtherSRG (talk) 19:33, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I think that the article Black panther is just an article on leopards and jaguars on black melanin. That means that I strongly consider the merge. Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 19:39, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Please read WP:BLUDGEON and get ready to WP:DROP THE STICK. - UtherSRG (talk) 19:48, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose - This article is about a specific species. It can include information about melanistic forms of this species, but it shouldn't discuss the melanistic form of large cats in general. It should include a pointer to such. Jashzakrzcwski, I don't think you understand how we have organized our articles. - UtherSRG (talk) 20:10, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

  You also have to read Wikipedia:Merging before you can discuss this article any further. I'm serious. Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 20:23, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I see 4 editors who oppose a merge: Elmidae, LittleJerry, UtherSRG and I. Wolverine XI: you too ? – BhagyaMani (talk) 19:56, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I dozed off before I had a chance. I'll make note of it below. Wolverine XI ^{(talk to me)} 23:00, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

UtherSRG: How many more votes or how much time do we still need for asking an admin to close this discussion? – BhagyaMani (talk) 19:56, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

@BhagyaMani: I've requested at WP:Closure requests as a WP:SNOW. I'd do it myself, but I am involved. - UtherSRG (talk) 11:22, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

No, you can't do that, sorry. I don't think you are an administrator or arbitrator, so you can't close the discussion unless one has decided whether or not I have consensus for merge. Please read Wikipedia:Consensus very carefully to find out more information. Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 11:21, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

I am an admin. Please read our policies and procedures. Please stop WP:BLUDGEONING the process, or you may soon be blocked from editing. - UtherSRG (talk) 11:24, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

You do not have consensus. - UtherSRG (talk) 11:24, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

I think you are doing something suspicious. Please read Wikipedia:Merging carefully before you contribute to this merge proposal discussion any more. Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 20:02, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

As long as it takes for an administrator or arbitrator to decide whether or not I have consensus for this merge. Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 20:15, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose this is a stupid merge request and it also violates Wikipedia:Disruptive editing by the nominator who will not listen to those who are voting. Catfurball (talk) 20:41, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

  No, YOU are disrupting MY editing. Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 20:47, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

  Stop, YOU are not listening to ME. It is YOU That is destroying my editing and not ME myself. Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 20:59, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose I can only echo what has already been said; black panthers are not exclusively melanistic leopards. It's as simple as that. Wolverine XI ^{(talk to me)} 23:05, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

  The information about melanistic jaguars can easily be told in this article, and don't lie, Wolverine XI. Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 11:13, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

  No it can't "easily" be told here. Black jaguars are not leopards! LittleJerry (talk) 15:51, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Users, Please start agreeing to this merge happening. Can anybody? Jashzakrzcwski (talk) 11:42, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

And that's crossed the line on my tolerance for your WP:BLUDGEONING. You've earned yourself a 1-week timeout from editing. - UtherSRG (talk) 11:49, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.