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Always the same problems
editIt looks this article cannot get to stability. It is against wiki guidelines and common sense to report the alternative name of people and places in other articles. The names that should be reported when linking to another artcle need to be the one that are used in the relevant articles (Zadar, Sebenik, Giorgio da Sebenico, etc.). Exception exist in some situations (e.g. for places like Bolzano-Bozen or San Sebastián-Donostia) but here it does not look they apply. If someone believe that the right name should be another he/she is welcome to discuss of this matter in the respective relevant page but in any case cannot put alternative names in another page. Otherwise we keep exporting and multiplying problems. And pushing POV's won't be of any interest, because those edits will be reverted without fail. --Silvio1973 (talk) 10:28, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
Croatian or Italian
edit"Encyclopædia Britannica describes Luciano Laurana as "one of the main figures in 15th-century Italian architecture".[5] The architecture book,[6] The Architectural historian in America,[7] and Enciclopedia Italiana[8] identify Laurana as an "Italian architect".
Even if internationally known as an Italian artist, he is today regularly included by Croatians in the overviews of their art, with the name "Lucijan Vranjanin".[9]"
The source to support this sentence is only one and it's Croatian, if it's now "regularly included by Croatians" I suppose that you have a lot of sources to support this sentence. --Ilario (talk) 16:38, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
- The reference [9] there is not formatted properly, but it points to something published by the Miroslav Krleža Lexicographical Institute. A quick google search found me a handful of obvious examples:
- "... the famous depictions of ideal cities presented by the Croatian architect and painter Luciano Laurana and his followers for the Court of Urbino." - in the summary of a 2010 article by Slobodan Prosperov Novak et al, published by the Croatian Academy of Sciences and Arts
- [...] možda je najzanimljivije poglavlje ono o “Schiavonima”, hrvatskim umjetnicima koji su tijekom stoljeća djelovali u Italiji, a nisu ostavili važnijih tragova u zavičaju. [...] u biografskim “schedama” obrađeni su [...] Lucijan Vranjanin (Luciano Laurana), Franjo Vranjanin (Francesco Laurana), [...], translated: "[...] perhaps the most interesting chapter is the one about the "Schiavoni", Croatian artists who worked in Italy overy many centuries, but haven't left a major mark in their homeland. [...] the biographical "schede" cover [...] Lucijan Vranjanin (Luciano Laurana), Franjo Vranjanin (Francesco Laurana), [...]" - a 2008 article in the Zagreb Institute of Art History journal reviewing a 2007 book
- That's just from a quick google search. It is indeed a mainstream Croatian view - a Schiavone from a Venetian possession in medieval Croatia is a Croat. Perhaps you're overstating a contentious aspect - in the section title, you used the relation or between "Croatian" and "Italian", but it's not an either-or situation. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 17:58, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
- Another mention of that 2007 book in Croatian journals is this footnote in a 2009 work about history of music:
- U najnovijoj povijesti renesansne umjetnosti izdanoj u seriji Povijest umjetnosti u Hrvatskoj (Naklada Ljevak, Zagreb 2006.), Milan Pelc je nakon poglavlja o arhitekturi, skulpturi, slikarstvu, ukrašavanju knjiga i zlatarstvu u Hrvatskoj uključio poglavlje o Schiavonima (Niccolò dell’Arca, Lucijan Vranjanin, Franjo Vranjanin, Bernardino da Parenzo, Andrea Schiavone/Meldolla-Medulić, Giulio Clovio, Martino Rota/Kolunić, Natale Bonifacio). Na taj način su ovim umjetnicima pristupale i ranije povijesti hrvatske umjetnosti, a isti su model prihvatili Lovro Županović i Ennio Stipčević, koji su hrvatske glazbene emigrante uvrstili na kraju poglavlja o svakom stilskom razdoblju, pod naslovom flu inozemstvu«, odnosno flizvan domovine«. Usp. Lovro ŽUPANOVIĆ: Stoljeća hrvatske glazbe, Školska knjiga, Zagreb 1980; Ennio STIPČEVIĆ: Hrvatska glazba. Povijest hrvatske glazbe do 20. stoljeća, Školska knjiga, Zagreb 1997.
- So the practice to describe the Schiavoni as Croatian emigrants isn't something recent. I also found a 2012 review of the coverage of them in the 20th century. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 17:45, 5 November 2013 (UTC)