Talk:Millwall F.C.

International supporters

I ve got to say, I ve always kinda linked the MFC with the legendary Only fools and horses and the Sheringham and Cascarino era. Although I ve just had a glance at this page, it seems to me that there aren t enough things for a foreign supporter, or a potential one to be precise, to identify with. It s only cos I support the Lions, too. Encyclopaedic parts are important, but a section which could show why we really support them wouldn t be too subjective-it would provide a background for understanding of what is MFC all about. I am currently some 2000 miles away and never been to Peckham or England, but there are some qualities that each human being can recognize in the spirit of the real MFC supporters.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.147.101.146 (talk • contribs)

Encyclopedic "parts" are indeed important, Wikipedia is an Encylopedia. Best wishes, Lion King 15:31, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Equal first?

In the current version it says "In 1974 Millwall were the first team to play a game on a Sunday", but shouldn't this be "first team to play a home game on a Sunday?", or "took part in the first Sunday match" ? There are usually two teams on the pitch :-) Ttwaring 19:36, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Good piont:) How about "the first team to host the first game to played on a Sunday"? Lion King 21:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Wot no copy edit? Lion King

A note on British English

British English should be used for articles on Britain related topics. Likewise, American English should be used on articles pertaining to American topics. For a clearer example, please visit this sub-section on the differences between their usage. However, is" works better than "are" with the term club as it is a singular and not a plural noun. (Compare with the word team which is a plural noun) --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 16:37, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Squad Lists

Something i had noticed on this page was the inclusion of Fabian Estay in the squad list, i for one have certainly never heard of him and am 100% that reading his article he is not a Millwall player. 62.253.199.29 14:47, 3 January 2007 (UTC) << that was me forgetting to sign in Ookie001 14:16, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Millwall badge.jpg

Image:Millwall badge.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:20, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Peter Theo Vasiliou

Peter Theo Vasiliou seems to be a former (albeit I think rather minor) player for Millwall. Are there sources which would allow us to say how many games he player for the team, and when? -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 12:43, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I have been a Millwall supporter for over 40years and I have never heard of this player, nor can I find any record of him playing for Millwall. The only thing I can suggest, is contacting Gazza@millwall-history.co.uk as I believe he is in possesion of Millwall A Complete History by Richard Lindsay, a most expensive publication! He may be able to shed some light on the matter, but If you want my opinion, it sounds to me like he's trying it on. There is a remote possiblity (of course) that he may have been on Millwall's books, but as I say I have no knowledge or memory of this person playing for Millwall. Hope this helps. Lion King 16:16, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:MillwallLion.png

Image:MillwallLion.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 19:21, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

We Fear No Foe

The introduction paragraph states the legend "we fear no foe" was on the team shirts in 1930s. This is wrong. The rampant lion badge with MFC below it appeared on shirts in team photos from 1936, although Millwall did not always play in shirts with these badges. Gazza Millwall-History —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.197.168 (talk) 18:38, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The Greenwich foot tunnel

I see mention of the Greenwich Foot tunnel in the den section. It stresses the North to South traffic of East End supporters continuing to support Millwall after the move and suggest a new set supporters south of the River after 1910. This of course missed the point and reason why the foot tunnel was built in the first place as much of the Labour in the docks and other industries on the Isle of Dogs lived south of the river and the way the Isle of Dogs was virtually cut off from the North by the West India docks. Gazza Millwall-History —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.145.30.230 (talk) 13:39, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Notable former players

What is the criteria for a player to be listed here?

Do they have to famous? Internationals? Or just Millwall Legends?

Can't see the justification for Christophe Kinet, Huckerby or Dave Savage being listed here.

Question by Gazza Millwall-History

On most club articles some objective criteria has been established for listing ex-players. On the Manchester City F.C. article, they only list members of their hall of fame, and the Chelsea F.C. article lists the winners of their player of the year award. Why not just list the players in Millwall's Hall of Fame? SteveO (talk) 01:20, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi SteveO, yes that's quite a good suggestion. By the looks of things the players Gazza mentions seem to have been "dealt with":) The only problem I can see is that the Hall of Fame leaves out Keith Stevens, Mister Magoo and certainly our most notable player of all time, although he only played 4 league games, Curtis Weston along with our all time league-goal scorer Neil Harris I also think that members of the FA Cup Final squad belong on the list, I doubt if we will ever make another, certainly not in my lifetime! I think some of them should go certainly, and would value any further opinion you care to offer. Thanks, 'Arry Boy (talk) 02:12, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

going by the current criteria "A list of notable footballers who have played for Millwall Football Club. Players who have been honoured in Millwall's Hall of Fame and have significantly contributed to the club's history. Be it through being founder member players, having been given a testimonial for 10 years of service at the club, making over 100 appearances, scoring 50 goals or having receieved international recognition by their country in the form of caps, while playing for Millwall." I think that should see Darren Byfield removed as his caps pre-date his Millwall Spell. Kim Grant's caps may aslo pre-date his Millwall spell. There are several other very minor figures who by virtue of a cap for a low ranking get listed which seems wrong, players like Michael Gilkes, Bobby Bowry and Marc Bircham, players who are not notable in the least! Gazza Millwall-History —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.44.231.56 (talk) 05:37, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Kim Grant is confirmed as not being capped at Millwall, Ditto Darren Byfield. Neither meet the criteria to be listed Gazza Millwall-History GazzaLDN (talk) 12:48, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Club Crest

Why dosen't this article have the Club Crest like the all others? 'Arry Boy (talk) 16:45, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh I really like Wikipepia, full of answers you lot! 'Arry Boy (talk) 16:01, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

There was one, but it seems to have been deleted for copyright reasons. You can upload it again (or I will if you can point me to a good picture of it), but make sure it has a fair use rationale (see Image:Arsenal FC.png for instance). It should be safe then. SteveO (talk) 16:38, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much indeed for your courteous and prompt reply. Unfortunately I'm still pretty new to all this and will need help. The only place I think the current Club Crest would available is here [1] I don't know if it could be used, but once again I would value both your opinion and help. Thank you, 'Arry Boy (talk) 22:50, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

No worries mate, we were all new here once. Other than the one on the banner, I can't find much on that site. I know the club have changed their crest a few times over the years, so I want to make sure I get the right one. How about this? SteveO (talk) 19:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi Steve, wow thanks for all your time, that's really nice of you! The Lion with the circle you have is the old one which was replaced by the double lion badge. The new one is just like the one I showed you except it has a black outline. I tried the official site and they seem to be pulling every trick in the book to conceal the new one. I've done quite an extensive search but can't seem to find it. I did however find a page that said the new one had been uploaded by wikipedia user:Pal and has been deleted, I don't know if they can help? All the very best, 'Arry Boy (talk) 23:00, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Same here, I can't find it anywhere on the club's site, google etc. Unfortunately, user:Pal has been inactive since August, but I'll drop a note on their talk page anyway and see what happens. It may be worth uploading one of the old ones for now. At least then there's something there. SteveO (talk) 23:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes it's very strange. I think that's a good idea, the closest one to it would be badge "a" here [2] and once again, thanks. 'Arry Boy (talk) 00:05, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay I've uploaded the one you suggested. It should do until the current one is located. SteveO (talk) 18:58, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh yes, that's a knockout! Thanks very much indeed for all your time and trouble. All the best, 'Arry Boy (talk) 19:59, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Honours

Millwall didn't win the league (Top Tier) in 1988-89 as stated, and as far as I know have never won the league. --82.45.200.179 (talk) 20:53, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Introduction

Ther's something up with the intro - sombody sort it.RicoRichmond (talk) 20:48, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

---

GazzaLDN 22:00, 26 August 2012 (UTC) The last 3 sentences of the Introduction do need looking at. I had deleted them in an earlier edit, but that was undone.

Millwall is well known for a long-standing rivalry with West Ham United. The local derby between the two sides has been contested almost 100 times since 1899. Millwall's supporters have an infamous association with hooliganism. The fans are renowned for their chant, "No one likes us, we don't care". I think the last sentence should stand on its own, not in the current paragraph.

While Millwall have played West Ham 97 times, this includes many minor games such as Southern Floodlight Cup and London League, which were essential reserve or Youth team games which attracted little or no fans in attendance. We have only played each other 16 times in competitive games in the last 60 years. This rivalry I think more of a modern Phenomenon than a long standing rivalry.

Season 2008-09

I've created a page for the current season, could someone with the power please add it on to the main page? Thanks.. also I'm a rookie at this, so feel free to edit it however you like.

Andylfowler (talk) 22:11, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Millwall F.C. season 2008-09

Is this page of value? I can't see similar pages for other clubs, and there don't seem to be any season pages for other seasons.. AfD anyone? Bertcocaine (talk) 21:51, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

There are lots of similar pages for other clubs, cf. Chelsea F.C. season 2008-09, Arsenal F.C. season 2008-09, Newcastle United F.C. season 2008-09, etc. SteveO (talk) 00:29, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Scunthorpe Play off final

Why no mention of this at all in either the main article or Millwall history? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.106.96.10 (talk) 15:59, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

2009-2010 Away Kit

I'm no good with wikipedia to be honest and editing the kits would be too hard, but the current away strip is a vertical striped red and black kit, not the white shirt. If somebody could edit that, that would be brilliant. Cheers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Docklanders (talk • contribs) 16:23, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Confidence of redirect?

[[Millwall Athletic F.C.]] links here, but there is no mention of Millwall Athletic in this article: is there certainty that the two clubs share a history? Kevin McE (talk) 18:16, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Removed Rivalries section

I removed the "Rivalries" section because:

• The word "rivalry" makes no sense between a newspaper and a football club. They might be enemies, but they aren't rivals in the way that Millwall and West Ham might be. The FA also don't seem to be obvious rivals to a football club.

• There is a large section about a conspiracy that would need some kind of verifiable reference.

Ttwaring (talk) 14:39, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Millwall F.C./GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

There is a lot of good work here, the article is nearly unrecognisable from what it was a few months ago. However, the issues present are probably too much to justify putting the nomination on hold while they are resolved, so unfortunately this is a fail.

I'll start off with a caveat to say I review featured article candidates more often than GA nominations, so my reviews are perhaps pickier than some.

Prose and layout

• Sections on famous fans are discouraged. From various discussions over the years at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football, the consensus is that if someone's support for a club is notable it should be mentioned in their article, not that of the club. In particlar, the fact that Ian Tomlinson was wearing a Millwall t-shirt is of little relevance.
• The "Nicknames" section could do with expansion into a section incorporating information about the colours and crest per the suggested layout for football clubs.
• Little things like a greengrocers' apostrophe in one of the most passionately contested local derby's in football and the odd run-on sentence suggest a third-party copyedit would be useful.
• The definition of "contributed greatly to the club's history" for the notable former players section is unclear.

Referencing

• It would be useful to break down some of the Complete Record references using page numbers.
• Many paragraphs in the history section are unreferenced. Any sentence containing information that cannot reasonably be regarded as common knowledge should be referenced. For example, It was not unusual for Millwall to attract thirty or forty thousand spectators to a game, especially at their second ground at East Ferry Road. should be referenced. The same goes throughout; every record listed in the "Statistics and records" section should be referenced. This is probably the single biggest issue preventing a GA pass.

Neutrality and stability

• Addressing the topic of hooliganism in an appropriate manner is no doubt the biggest challenge in writing an article about Millwall. However, at present, aside from a couple of sentences at the start, the "Supporters" section reads mostly as a rebuttal based on incidents reported in the past few years. Whether merited or not, Millwall fans have a reputation for hooliganism. The question that needs answering by the section is why that reputation came about. There is a wealth of information available on the topic (by which I mean scholarly sources rather than the hooligan "memoirs" that would probably be better placed on the fiction shelves in many cases). A quick Google Books search yields freely-viewable titles like No one likes us, we don't care: the myth and reality of Millwall fandom and The roots of football hooliganism: an historical and sociological study. The 1985 Kenilworth Road riot is not mentioned at all, yet it led directly to Thatchers plan for ID cards. Away from hooliganism, though alluded to elsewhere, the section fails to mention that the club's support mainly draws from the surrounding areas of south and east London.
• A certain amount of recentism creeps into the history section. When a 16 year period including a 3 year unbeaten run gets a single paragraph, do we really need to know that the club had a strong record against top half teams last season?

Images

• File:CasandTed88.jpg has an external website given as the source, but is tagged as being released into the public domain by the uploader.
• Without a discussion about the crest itself, File:MillwallFCLeapingLionCrest.png may well not be regarded as appropriate fair use.

Reviewer: Oldelpaso (talk) 11:01, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Comments

Thanks for the review. I've put a fair chunk of time in to transforming the article over the past few months and wanted to grasp what it truly needed to become a Good Article.

Resolved issues

• Nicknames has been expanded in to a section with crest and colours, as per suggested layouts.

• Did a copy-edit myself, changed derby's to derbies and other minor grammatical fixes.

• Defined Notable former players requirements section more expansively.

• Broke down Complete History book references by page number.

• Every record in statistics and records has a reference.

• Removed superfluous facts from recent years and buffed up the unbeaten home run section.

• Removed disputed image, File:CasandTed88.jpg which is most likely copyrighted.

• Addressed supporters and hooliganism. I linked to the main Kenilworth Road riots and West Ham riots articles. Completely re-wrote it in chronological order of problematic history. I traced back to 1906 from your The roots of football hooliganism: an historical and sociological study suggestion. Good call!

Issues outstanding

• the crest, File:MillwallFCLeapingLionCrest.png can be obtained from the club itself, like nearly every football crest displayed on wikipedia. Is this not allowed? I see featured clubs' pages, such as Arsenal, Man Utd and Gillingham ( File:GFCOldBadge.jpg ) have Non-free media use rationale - non-free logo's. Either way, this can be deleted.

• Removed the Ian Tomlinson mention, famous fans can be entirely removed. Would a famous fans section, which is now placed at the end of the article (in the In popular culture section), prevent a GA classification? Thank you. NoOneLikesUs (talk) 02:30, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

"Infamous fans" section

There's a section called Infamous fans, but this doesn't seem to line up with the dictionary definition:

• having an extremely bad reputation; deserving of or causing an evil reputation; shamefully malign; detestable

This hardly seems to apply to someone walking home from a G20 protest, or Del-Boy's father. Should this section just be merged in with "Famous Fans", dropping the "Infamous" heading? - Ttwaring (talk) 16:21, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

When I submitted the page for a Good article once over the guy suggested the whole famous fans section be taken out, as sections on celebrity supporters are not encouraged, altho personally I see it on quite a few pages and find it interesting and informative myself, but yeah maybe Tomlinson and the Only Fools part should go, rather than being merged. I just thought it was quirky trivia, and the Tomlinson incident/verdict is more infamous than the man himself.NoOneLikesUs (talk) 21:21, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Zapping it works for me - Ttwaring (talk) 23:44, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Millwall F.C./GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Brad78 (talk) 10:27, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Assessment

I'm afraid I'm going to have to fail this article again. I've spent a fair time reviewing it and making some changes, but I feel there's still a lot of work to do. There is an awful lot good with the article, but there's some not so good things. I've given you a full peer review below, which should help with a lot of stuff. It's possible that I could have kept it on hold, but I feel that it would be easier for you to get a full peer review or other help to get it passed properly without putting the pressure of it being on hold. And secondly, I just feel there's a bit too much to do or think about to put it on hold.

I would seriously suggest three options or all three.

• Get a peer review at WP:PR and find editors who may help out on this type of article. NB, I've given my own peer review below.
• Seek help at WP:FOOTY.
• Read over some other similar articles, which are either featured or good.

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   There's a lot good with the prose, but I've given a review below. Particular problems are WP:MOS issues, some items in the lead not elsewhere and a few grammar issues. Also the history section does not flow well in places and I think needs at least a fresh pair of eyes.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   There's a lot of POV in the article. Some of it comes across as very pro-Millwall. There's also some terms and sentences which need referencing. The references also need cleaning up to give full publisher and/or newspaper details, even simply The Yorkshire Post, rather than yorkshirepost.co.uk. Freelibrary is not the publisher either - if you look at that article, it was original in The Journal, in Newcastle. Nor am I sure about how reliable some sources are such as millwallprints, millwall-history, gonedigging, comedians, ruinedendings, etc are.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   Just about fine here. Though I've got concerns about the recentism of the history section. E.g. The last section covers three years yet is six paragraphs long and goes into individual signings. The first section covers 34 years and is only five paragraphs long naming just one person. It needs some balance across the entire article.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   As I've mentioned above, it comes out overly-biased in a pro-Millwall account.

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   Millwall_vs_Burnley_125_year_anniversary.JPG is copyright of the Football League since taken at a league game. LutonMillwallriot13March1985.png is maybe alright - but I'm not au fait with fair use policy. VictoryoverHuddersfield.jpg poor quality and I suspect may be copyright of the Football League. File:Crystal Palace 0 Millwall 1.ogv copyright Football League. File:MillwallvCharltonAthletic2010.JPG copyright Football League.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Review

Lead

• I know this is the use of British plural for football clubs, but I'm not sure about the first two pars. It starts off with "Millwall Football Club is an English professional football club ..." Then the second paragraph starts "They are"; both plural. They as a pronoun doesn't have any frame of reference when you use Millwall FC as a singular noun in the first sentence. I realise club is sounds better, but football clubs tend to use British plural, as you do in the second sentence. As a result, I'd say that all uses should be in the plural.

• "They currently play..." Try not use "currently" per WP:DATE. This sentence suggests Millwall are playing right now. I would re-word to something such as "They play in the ..." or if you want put the season in they sentence.

• "2009-10 League One Play-off Final" contains three links, one of which is hidden, i.e. 2009–10 is not clear what you link to until you click on it. I'd say since it's best just to link to the play-off final, with one single link.

• "Millwall have reached the FA Cup semi-finals on three separate occasions," Strictly this is incorrect as Millwall have reached four semi-finals. I'd reword this to put the 2004 final first up and then say "Millwall have reached another three FA Cup semi-finals".

• "1988–89 First Division" As above, just use one link.

• "Based on all results during their 83 seasons in the Football League from 1920-21 to 2009-10, Millwall are ranked as the all-time 41st most successful English football club domestically." I can't find this in the main body of the article. Per WP:LEAD, all info in the lead needs to be in the main body.

History

• "J.T. Morton was first founded ... They opened ..." Similar to above, though companies are normally a singular noun, so either use "It opened ..." or "The company opened.." and your problem is solved.

• "Jasper John Sexton (pictured left)". How come the picture caption doesn't say it's Jasper John Sexton?

• "The newly formed team was well beaten 5–0." Was/were?

• "The match finished 2–2 and the teams shared the cup for six months each." Could do with a reference.

• "In those days, The Football League was in its infancy and consisted mostly of northern clubs. In the south, the Southern League was not only seen as a rival league, but on equal par." Probably true, but again needs a reference.

• "They are most famous for The Den at New Cross, London, which they moved to in 1910." Again possibly true, but I don't think you need to say "Millwall are most famous". Simply say Millwall moved to The Den in 1910. Why did they move there?

• "They had previously occupied no fewer than four separate grounds..." No fewer than four = four. It's superfluous.

• "who spoiled the celebrations by winning 0–1." 0–1 looks wrong, should really be 1–0.

• "Millwall's first Football League match at The Den was on 28 August 1920." How come they were promoted/elected to the league? Who did they replace? Why did they decide to enter this time now?

• "notably defeating three-time league winners (and reigning champions)" doesn't really need the brackets.

• "The 1937 FA Cup game against Derby still stands as Millwall's record attendance." What was the attendance?

• "Mighty Newcastle United" is a WP:PEACOCK term.

• "Millwall were the tenth best supported team in England in the pre-war years, despite being a Third, then Second Division side." Being a third then second doesn't make sense, either use Third or Second, or specify some years.

• "Many thought they would go on to become" Who does many refer to?

• "that is until the Second World War cruelly robbed them of their chance." cruelly is POV.

• "The club accepted offers from neighbours Charlton, Crystal Palace and West Ham to stage games." Use clubs' full names, e.g. Charlton Athletic, West Ham United, at least on their first reference.

• "Their form during the 1950s was poor, and they suffered relegation on a regular basis." Can you be more specific? To me, regular would suggest three or four relegations which would take them at least to non-league. So I'm not even sure regular is the right word.

• "One highlight during this period was on 5 October 1953, when Millwall played Manchester United to mark the opening of their floodlights." Can new floodlights really be a highlight? And you can't open floodlights.

• "Later in the decade, Millwall established an incredible record of 59 home games without defeat from, 22 August 1964 to 14 January 1967." Incredible is POV. See WP:POV or WP:NPOV. Also needs a reference.

• "The entire record stands as: Won 43, Drawn 16, Lost 0. Goals for 112, against 33." try and turn into prose.

• "In the early 1970s Millwall boasted a truly impressive side, now remembered by Lions fans as "The Class of '71"." Again this is POV. Needs a reference.

• inspirational is another WP:PEACOCK term.

• "This was a team that boasted the inspirational Harry Cripps, Dennis Burnett, Derek Possee, Barry Kitchener, Eamon Dunphy, Keith Weller, Doug Allder, Bryan King, and more." Why just these players? Especially when you say "and more".

• "In 1974 Millwall hosted the first game to be played on a Sunday against Fulham." Why was this held on a Sunday?

• "Millwall surprised observers" Which observers? Why were they surprised? Needs a reference.

• "Millwall had a good start to the 1984–85 First Division campaign, topping the League on 1 October 1988" These dates don't coroborate.

• "Also, Terry Hurlock and team Captain Les Briley who dominated the Millwall midfield." needs a reference for "dominated".

• "They also briefly led the league for one night in September 1989 after beating Coventry City 4–1," I would make this obvious it's the following season.

• "Striker Teddy Sheringham, who later played for the England team and was the highest scoring player throughout the Football League in 1990–91,[46] was sold to Nottingham Forest for £2,000,000 after Millwall's 6–2 defeat to Brighton in the Second Division play-offs." Again flicks between seasons without it being obvious where or when - particularly with the change in manager.

• "The new ground was the first new football stadium to be built in London since the Second World War." Needs a reference.

• "beating them 0–2 at Highbury." I'd prefer 2–0. All scorelines look better with either the winners score first or Millwall's score first; preferably the former.

• "(mainly due to a horrendous series of injuries)," horrendous is POV. Needs a reference.

• "Bonds was sacked and replaced by Keith "Rhino" Stevens, with Alan McLeary as his assistant. McLeary was promoted to joint manager." I don't understand this. Is McLeary manager or assistant?

• "Stevens and McLeary led Millwall to their first ever official Wembley appearance." Why official?

• "The Lions reached the final with a Golden Goal win against Gillingham in the Semi-Finals," Needs either a link or explanation of golden goal.

• "2004–05 UEFA Cup" Link to the specific UEFA Cup article not two different less specific pages.

• "Surprisingly, whilst Millwall were seeded, Ferencvaros were not." Why surprising? Needs a reference.

• "Millwall could have had an easier draw against Chechnyan minnows Terek Grozny" Is this just supposition looking at the weakest non-seeds? Or did Ferencvaros beat Terek Grozny. Either way this and the following sentence are a little redundant. Simply say Ferencvaros won and progressed to the group stage.

• "In March 2007 Chestnut Hill Ventures, led by American John Berylson, who have interests in ..." Is "who have" referring to Chestnut Hill Ventures or John Berylson? If Chestnut Hill Ventures, it should be "whish has" if Berylson it should be "who has".

• "The continued investment of Berylson, who has since become the club's major shareholder and chairman,[9] have provided a successful time on and off the pitch for The Lions." Investment is singular noun therefore should be "has provided". Secondly successful is POV. Needs a reference.

• "Over the course of the last two seasons Jackett has led Millwall to two top 6 finishes in League One," Changes tense from the rest of the history section. Maintain your previous prose e.g. "Over the course of the next two season, Jackett led Millwall ..."

• "After play-off final heartbreak" heartbreak is POV. Use defeat.

• "His signings of Steve Morison, Jimmy Abdou and Darren Ward have given Millwall a strong backbone to the team. Also, utlilising the loan market, his shrewd signings of James Henry, Liam Trotter and Shaun Batt (all who he has now signed permanently), helped propel Millwall toward the play-offs, and eventual promotion." Serious POV. And no reference.

• "The game had been much hyped due to City's signing of then England goalkeeper David James." Not sure this is relevant to Millwall.

• "Only days after the humbling defeat, Steve Coppell resigned as City manager." Humbling is POV. To be honest, it's not needed. In fact, again is this relevant again?

• The entire history section suffers from too much recentism for the latter sections. Ironically this is the parts which includes the better prose, which flows easier. I would try get rid of the less relevant information and keep this in the expanded History of Millwall F.C. page.

Colours

• "they played in a dark Dundee blue for their shirts and socks, with white shorts." Why Dundee? This isn't an accepted colour. Needs more explanation what this means.

• "In 1936 Millwall changed to a lighter Navy blue and have played in this colour for the best part of 74 years," Similar to above, this changes tense. Probably simply just get rid of "have".

• "The Red Lion was a popular pub name and the red leaping lion often displayed outside pubs is remarkably similar to the first Millwall badge." Is this the reason why or is this guesswork? It looks like the latter without a better explanation.

• "In recent years the club has started to once again recognise its unique link with London's docks by introducing Docker Days," Again changes tense. Say "In XXXX, the club started to ... "

• This section looks a little untidy with the text forced in between opposite images and then the table of kit sponsors, etc. See WP:MOSIMAGE for help on how to align images.

Home attendances

• I feel this list isn't needed in the article. Perhaps a synopsis of the attendances, but this information would be better demonstrated with a graph. The information could also be included at the as yet unstarted List of Millwall F.C. seasons article.

Supporters

• "Millwall are a well supported club, for their comparative size and status." POV. Needs a reference.

• "The club and fans have a long unwanted history" long unwanted (while I admit is correct) is POV. Needs a reference.

• "On five occasions The Den has been closed by The Football Association, with the club receiving numerous fines for crowd disorder." Again incorrect tense. The Den is a former ground so this should be "On five occasions, The Den was closed..." anyway.

• "windows were put in" put in is probably slang.

• "minnows" WP:PEACOCK

• "As a result, along with arrests from Millwall's hooligans, Luton's own firm the MIGs, 37 fans arrested after the violence were identified as being from rival hooligan firms, Chelsea (Headhunters) and West Ham United (Inter City Firm)." This sentence needs rewording. I've tried to read it four or five times and don't understand it.

• "Former Chairman of the club Reg Burr, once commented; "Millwall are a convenient coat peg for football to hang its social ills on",[106] an example being the reporting of convicted murderer Gavin Grant. Although he had played for eight different football clubs, playing his fewest (only four games) for Millwall and was currently signed to Bradford City at the time, BBC News used the headline 'Former Millwall striker Gavin Grant guilty of murder'.[107]" Did Burr link the reporting of "former Millwall striker"? I can't see a reference to say such. Or is this your own supposition?

• "After recent trouble" recent doesn't mean anything. In ten years time this will be redundant.

Rivalries

• "The Lions fiercest rival is West Ham United, one of the most passionately contested local derbies in football." run-on sentence.

• "The South East London derby was a franetic affair" POV.

• "After being promoted to The Championship for the 2010–11 season, Millwall re-ignited their South London derby with Crystal Palace, playing each other for the first time in four years on 16 October 2010 at Selhurst Park. The Lions made it six games without defeat against The Eagles, winning 1–0." Seems recentist to me. See WP:RECENTISM.

Players, Managers and Records

• All three sections are little more than lists. See WP:EMBED on how to handle lists in prose articles. Some of the info could be turned into prose, some of the info looks redundant in a prose article.

Club officials

• As above. Not all these positions should be in the article though. See WP:NOTDIR

External links

• Trim. Severely. I'd almost be tempted to say only include the official site. But for more information see WP:EL.

MOS and grammar

• All seasons and results should use an endash not a dash, i.e. – or simply a – from the tools below, rather than a -. E.g. 2009–10.

• Apart from a couple of exceptions, numbers above ten are usually in numerals, e.g. 17, or below ten written out, e.g. seven. See WP:MOSNUM for more details.

• You should not use contractions, e.g. can't, wasn't, won't, don't.

• Be careful about proper nouns. I've changed captain and defender. There may be more.

• Watch out for over and repeated linking.

• Lots of incorrect use of apostrophes. I've tried to catch most of them, but there may be some still in there.

Images

• Several images were taken at league games and are therefore copyrighted to the Football League.

Others

• There's a link to disambig page Upton Park.

Hope this all helps. If you need any further advice, please don't hesitate to ask. Brad78 (talk) 20:58, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Millwall's Managers

I have edited this section as someone had incorrectly labelled Reg "JR" Smith as Scottish (he was an England International, capped while playing for Millwall!) and former Millwall Captain!

I have deleted the link to the scottish Jimmy Smith, whoever he was!

Gazza Millwall-History —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.44.231.56 (talk) 05:47, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

I also think Bob Hunter is Scottish rather than English, given his Schoolboy prizes and Montrose connection, but don't have absolute confirmation

Gazza Millwall-History —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.44.231.56 (talk) 06:20, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Transfer of Hameur Bouazza

Hameur Bouazza

I note he is described as on loan from Arles-Avignon and an edit has been undone to revert to this from my entry.

Millwall FC describe his signing as "a short term contract after leaving French side Arles-Avignon, A fee of £150,000 is rumoured.

217.44.14.231 (talk) 12:25, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Duplicate

official Millwall site and sky sports say he left the french club, and it's a contract until the end of the season. no mention of loan at all. BillyBatty (talk) 12:50, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Every single French source that I've read, and I've read at least 10 so far, states that he was loaned out to Millwall with a buy option at the end of the 6 month term. I have yet to come across a source that explicitly states that he terminated his contract with Arles. I'd suggest someone seeks clarification from the clarification from the club because I'm quite sure he's only in on loan. TonyStarks (talk) 19:40, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

I've read loan in a couple of places too, but since the official Millwall site doesn't mention it's a loan and is a more reputable source than any newspaper, I'd say leave it as a short term contract for now. It's definitely worth monitoring over the next week or so, if it needs to be changed. What does the official Arles site say? BillyBatty (talk) 02:59, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the Arles website doesn't mention the transfer at all. As for the Millwall site, "a short term contract" can be understood either way. Like you said, best approach is probably to monitor it over the next couple of weeks. Cheers. TonyStarks (talk) 03:49, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Found an English source that states that he is on loan : Jackett: Morison contract talks going well. The article says "It was a quiet transfer deadline day for Millwall in the end on Monday with Jackett happy to have completed his January dealing before the weekend by snapping up Hameur Bouazza on a loan deal." I think this should put the issue to bed, I'll update the article accordingly. TonyStarks (talk) 08:44, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, lists it as loan on official site too now. Senior Squad | Hameur Bouazza. BillyBatty (talk) 09:07, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Millwall F.C./GA3. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Casliber (talk • contribs • count) 21:05, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

• Alright then, I'll make straighforward copyedits as I go and jot down queries below: Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:05, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Millwall's supporters are synonymous with their terrace chant "no one likes us, we don't care". - a person can't be synonymous with a song, maybe "Millwall's supporters are known for their terrace chant "no one likes us, we don't care"." or "Millwall's supporters are renowned for their terrace chant "no one likes us, we don't care"." or something like it.

Millwall Rovers was formed by the workers of J.T. Morton... - "J.T. Morton" needs a descriptor to make it flow, as in "Millwall Rovers was formed by the workers of docking company' J.T. Morton..." or whatever the company does.

Good - continuing intermittently as my free time has evaporated today. Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:10, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

In April 1889, a resolution was passed for Millwall to drop 'Rovers' from their name and they were now playing under the name Millwall Athletic - leaves me wondering..any reason cited why the name change?

The league expanded the radius of clubs throughout the country, which had never been further south than Birmingham City before - huh? not right as Arsenal had been admitted to the league in 1893–94..... (also the radius of clubs didn't increase, it was the radius of the league, but hte whole shebang might need an overhaul...I think dropping the sentence is prudent.

cite tags

Later in the decade, Millwall established a record of 59 home games without defeat (43 wins and 16 draws) from 22 August 1964 to 14 January 1967. - any particular outstanding players that were key to this? Maybe should be added.

This was a team that included Harry Cripps, Dennis Burnett, Derek Possee, Barry Kitchener, Eamon Dunphy, Keith Weller, Doug Allder and Bryan King. - a bit listy - maybe break it up by listing their positions or just some other facts as to why they were important- doesn't have to be much, but is worth a few more words if this was a notable segment of history. Yeah, much better.

Rejigging content - now the Millwall_F.C.#Supporters_and_hooliganism is pretty long compared to the rest of the article, so needs to be tightened up a bit (have a look at Wikipedia:Summary style for ideas) - it seems to go into more depth than one daughter article, Millwall Bushwackers (the daughter article does mention F-Troop, which is worth mentioning in the main article (???)) - so possibly some material can be transferred over. This might be a bit complicated and I will see if I can help. The main reason is that the parent article is getting pretty hefty....

This section has always been an extremely difficult subject to tackle, would you suggest any sections be completely removed? TBM10 (talk) did a stellar job trying to copyedit it. I should probably wait to touch this or transfer anything over to Millwall Bushwackers until you give it a going over with a fine-tooth comb. Cheers mate. BillyBatty (talk) 02:13, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Lemme think about it a bit. I'll look over it again and try and figure something out. Might ask some Bushwacker related questions as I go. Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:35, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Found some interesting things - the 1977 Panorama documentary. I can also see some pages of the Robson book on google books and am having a read now. Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:28, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Damn, am getting well and truly sidetracked by looking at youtube clips. It is tricky to figure out how much space should cover the fans....I'll get a second opinion. To complicate matters, there is more commentary at No one likes us, we don't care, much of the content of which is great commentary for the bushwhackers or even main article....Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:50, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

I need to sleep on this. More later. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:25, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Indeed. The supporters are often more widely known and reported on more than the club itself. The term 'no one likes us, we don't care' is used commonly by journalists at a metaphor for staunch defiance. Many articles are often completely unrelated to sport, examples include pieces on finance, politics and religion: Economist, Guardian, Telegraph. Unlike most football club articles on wikipedia, which would just have a few paragraphs about the supporters, Millwall's should probably be a more prominant piece. Supporters are namechecked as far afield as Australia, which makes me think of the common joke among Millwall fans, that they are "the biggest 'little club' in the world". BillyBatty (talk) 06:17, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

The best book I have ever read about the club and supporters is written by Watford supporting journalist, Michael Calvin, who writes for the Daily Mirror. It's called Life, Death and Football. He was given all access to the club for a whole season. You don't have to be a fan of Millwall to appreciate it, just a fan of the game. If you ever get a chance, superb read. Truly illuminating. Quote from page 5: "No One Likes Us, We Don't Care. Not so much an anthem, as a way of life. Millwall's notoriety is their birthright." BillyBatty (talk) 06:33, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip - sounds like a book that needs to be referenced in this article. The Robson book I can see segments of on google books, but it is pretty dry and more "scholarly" with alot of interpretations that are possibly too specialised for this article. I was trying to find some more info on when and why F-Troop became Bushwhackers that could be referenced. Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:50, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

It's hard to find references that are not youtube videos! The Panorama video also mentions Treatment, the young firm who aspire to graduate to F-Troop. BillyBatty (talk) 09:25, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Actually, we can use the Panorama as a reference, but make sure it is properly cited.

In the 1958–59 season, Millwall became a founding member of Division Four.[19] The team's form was poor during the late 1950s and early 1960s, playing five seasons in the fourth tier of English football for the first time in their history. - I'd rejig this to make it more chronological, so something like: "Millwall's form was poor during the late 1950s and early 1960s, and the they were relegated into (and became a founding member of) Division Four

in the 1958–59 season. They remained in the fourth tier of English football for the first time in their history." (presuming the five seasons immediately followed this (????) NB: Make sure each bit is cited.

Thinking about the lead - I'd add two sentences - one about the fame (or notoriety) of the fans, and one along the lines of which tiers in the league they have usually played in over the years (i.e. something like "the team has spent most of its existence in the second or third tier of the Football League, with two seasons' of top flight football 1988-90)" or some overview in a nutshell like that (?)

How would you define the notoriety/infamy in the lead? There must be a better way to word "Millwall's supporters are renowned for their terrace chant "no one likes us, we don't care" and have a long, notorious history associated with football hooliganism." Should the worldwide infamy be touched upon? There are endless international sources that can be cited. BillyBatty (talk) 14:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Agree, it isn't the chant that is well known, but behaviour. Will have a think too. Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:57, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Some uncited paras in the Colours, crest and nickname ...I think we're nearly done here :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:34, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

There we go, I think that's a better read. Added who changed kit colour, removed what I couldn't cite and combined those pesky stubby paras for you. :) Wasn't sure if to make the kit sponsor box collapsable or to leave? BillyBatty (talk) 16:07, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Nah, tha's fine. Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:07, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

1. Well written?:

Prose quality:

Manual of Style compliance:

2. Factually accurate and verifiable?:

References to sources:

Citations to reliable sources, where required:

No original research:

3. Broad in coverage?:

Major aspects:

Focused:

4. Reflects a neutral point of view?:

Fair representation without bias:

5. Reasonably stable?

No edit wars, etc. (Vandalism does not count against GA):

6. Illustrated by images, when possible and appropriate?:

Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

Overall:

Pass or Fail:

I'll try and pick up the calvin book online and have a read, maybe then a crack at FAC. Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:10, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

FA? I'd be up for helping with that. Thanks for all your pointers mate! BillyBatty (talk) 17:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Squad table format

A discussion is being held here on the possibility of rolling out a new squad template. The new template, named {{football squad player2}}, differs from the standard squad layout in several ways:

• It features a sort function
• Comes in a single column format that can be understood by screen readers.
  • Single column format ensures that low resolution browsers, including mobile devices, do not get part or all of the second column cut off.
  • Single column format ensures less clutter, particularly at lower resolutions, for wide sections such as the Arsenal loan section.
• It gives nationality its own column; at present flags are featured in a blank, untitled column
• It complies with Wikipedia's guidance on flag usage.
• It leaves enough space to add images of current players, an example of which can be seen at Watford F.C#Current squad.

It is proposed that the new template be added to some of Wikipedia's most high-profile club articles, which might include Millwall F.C.. To give your thoughts, please read and contribute to the discussion at WikiProject Football.

Regards, Edinburgh Wanderer 19:42, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Local pronunciation

"Local" pronunciation of Millwall has been added to the opening sentence of the article. Is it correct? --TBM10 (talk) 13:52, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

I don't know about the local pronunciation of the name, but I do know that the way it's rendered (/ˈmɪɤɔo/) doesn't match IPA as given on the Wikipedia page Help:IPA for English.

I reckon someone who knows about the local pronunciation and IPA is needed to fix this. 86.174.4.72 (talk) 15:47, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

References in a videogame

They are mentioned in the game Killing Floor. It's mentioned by the player as an insult towards the enemy. Shall this be mentioned? This can be checked right here http://kf-wiki.com/wiki/List_of_Squad_responses#Insults. Best wishes. 190.31.218.74 (talk) 05:06, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

No, this should not be mentioned in the article, it isn't relevant. Camw (talk) 06:04, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Ibrox

I heard on the radio that the Den is a scaled-down replica of Ibrox, a reference to the club's Scottish origins. If this is true could someone add it here and at the stadium and history articles? Spicemix (talk) 15:47, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Need a solid reference for that. You should add it if you can find one. BillyBatty (talk) 20:50, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Kit colours

Should we add Sheffield Wednesday's 2012-13 home kit? [3] Just kidding. --TBM10 (talk) 17:49, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Weirdly, their wikipedia page seem to have forgot their away kit... hah BillyBatty (talk) 17:54, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

They didn't move out of New Cross

The New Den is still in New Cross. It's in the borough of Lewisham and the New Cross ward. Bermondsey would be the borough of Southwark. Epa101 (talk) 10:57, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

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Merge in detail from Millwall F.C. in European football

There seems no good reason to have a fork for just the two matches that Millwall played in Europe. I propose merging the pertinent details into the already extant "Millwall in European football" and "Supporters and hooliganism" sections. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:10, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

• Merge, also by being British Millwall F.C. is a European club and thus the topic is somewhat misleading. Brandmeister^talk 09:59, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
• Merge As it refers to a few games in one season. Joseph2302 21:01, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
• Keep, TO specifically mention the Hungarian hooliganism episode would give WP:UNDUE to that incident over the many many incidents of hooliganism that Millwall have engaged in over the years. There also seems to be precidence for the existence of this article in that it has been deemed that individual club's European campaigns are notable as per Template:English clubs in European football. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 06:25, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
• Keep, on the condition the article is expanded. Millwall were also in the 92-93 and 93-94 Anglo-Italian Cup. Three different years with European competition holds more weight for its own article, unlike Portsmouth F.C. in European football and Wigan Athletic F.C. in European football which only have one campaign. BillyBatty (talk) 13:48, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
  • I do confess that when I wrote the article, I assumed that Millwall hadn't been involved in any of those competitions because I thought the FA wouldn't have wanted those hooligans near it. Nevertheless, I have now included those stats in the article so it is now more than just the UEFA Cup campaign @The Rambling Man:. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 11:54, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

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notable supporters?

Listcraft anyone? It doesn't add anything to the article. Shouldn't it be removed? Govvy (talk) 20:38, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

I think we should keep it as it is in good shape (table format with all entries referenced) and low maintenance. I think it would be more work if it didn't exist and people kept trying to add supporters to other sections. Ttwaring (talk) 22:45, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

When I first added it, I had it as a collapsed table. It took up minimal room and if someone was interested in reading it, they could expand it. Most clubs seem to have it in their supporters sections, such as Arsenal F.C. supporters#Notable supporters and West Ham United F.C. supporters#List of notable supporters. The way the West Ham section is arranged would be the best way I think, photos add more depth to the section. BillyBatty (talk) 10:47, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

I actually think the West Ham supporters article is by far the best article I've seen on wiki for this type of content, I think Millwall should have a similar page considering the history behind the club. The list should be moved over to it. Govvy (talk) 11:26, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

I think you should add Roy Larner, the "Lion of London Bridge" to the list of notable supporters!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.230.86.159 (talk) 22:10, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Frankly I think it is odd that the London Bridge Attacks are not mentioned at all. No matter how one feels about the club, the fans, terrorism, or Roy Larner it seems notable.96.240.128.124 (talk) 02:46, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

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Location

There have been several modifications lately as to where the club is located. The article previously stated the club is in South Bermondsey, although that area falls (politically) into the borough of Southwark. I think few people would associate the club with being "in Southwark". Recent disputes around the stadium's future has been between the club and the borough of Lewisham, although I wouldn't consider the club to be located "in Lewisham". Perhaps we should try to reach a consensus as to the true location of Millwall today. A problem is that there is often a difference between a location politically and geographically. The SE16 postcode seems to be designated to Surrey Quays. Personally, I think the most appropriate description is "South Bermondsey, south-east London", without the need to mention a political borough. --TBM10 (talk) 02:24, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 10 April 2020

Chronological inclusion:

In November 2005, Peter de Savary succeeded as chairman of Millwall Holdings plc and as chairman of Millwall F.C.. Stewart Till succeeded him on 3 May 2006 as the football club chairman, and de Savary remained as chairman of Millwall Holdings plc until October 2006.

Replace with:

Upheaval, stability and first play-off success: 2005–2013

Millwall players celebrating promotion to the Football League Championship at Wembley Stadium in 2010.

In 2005, Theo Paphitis announced that he was stepping down as chairman of the club with Jeff Burnige to replace him from May 2005. At the end of the 2004–05 season, manager Dennis Wise announced that he was leaving as he was unable to form a working relationship with the new chairman. Former Millwall striker Steve Claridge was announced as the new player-manager of Millwall. However, when Burnige then stepped down just two months after taking up the post, it was announced on 27 July that Claridge had been sacked after just 36 days, without ever taking charge of the team in a competitive match. Former Wolverhampton Wanderers manager Colin Lee replaced him but lasted only five months in charge of the club. In November 2005, Peter de Savary succeeded

as chairman of Millwall Holdings plc and as chairman of Millwall F.C.. Stewart Till succeeded him on 3 May 2006 as the football club chairman, and de Savary remained as chairman of Millwall Holdings plc until October 2006. On 21 December, with the club bottom of the Championship, he became the club's Director of Football and was replaced as manager by 32-year-old player Dave Tuttle, on a short-term contract until the end of the 2005–06 season. Tuttle had no prior experience in football management. In February 2006, Lee left the club altogether. Millwall experienced a difficult season, having had four managers in 2005. Their 13 goals scored at home was the second worst in Football League history. Their relegation to League One was confirmed on 17 April 2006 with a 2–0 loss against Southampton. In the closed season Nigel Spackman was appointed as the new manager, but he lasted only four months after a string of bad results. In September 2006, Theo Paphitis (chairman from 1997 to 2005) ended his nine-year association with the club after a year-long spell as a non-executive director. On 19 March 2007, Willie Donachie signed a two-year contract following some progress which had seen the club climb to 11th place in the league. Before Donachie took charge, Millwall had taken only six points from their first ten games. In the 2007–08 season Millwall sat bottom of the table at the beginning of October. Donachie was sacked on 8 October, with Richard Shaw and Colin West becoming caretaker managers. Thetremors (talk) 14:44, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

References

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Goldsztajn (talk) 18:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

SVG logo

Shouldn’t a club as big as Millwall have an SVG logo, there are clubs in the seventh tier with a scalable vector graphics version, the PNG version looks extremely blurry on mobile. Joseph1891 (talk) 18:54, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

grenade on pitch at brentford in 60.s

this was thrown on by brentford supporters.the were losing 1-0 at the time ,from a hughie curran goal ,scored from his own half.it was near the halfway line.all us millwall supporters were behind the goal.someone came on with a bucket and removed it.chic brodie did not touch it. Beaufoy (talk) 08:33, 26 January 2023 (UTC)