Talk:Rivethead

WTF--It's all gone?!

It looks like someone's notes. I thought I was on the talk page!

This is a seriously horrible page, definitely needs some improvements in language style alone.

Why no pix?

There were pix, now they are gone. ?????

...

Do we really need 2 paragraphs to say some Rivetheads listen to EBM and some listen to Noise? And shouldn't all the additional genre description be left to the pages for Industrial, EBM, Futurepop, etc?

Please, stop with the lies.

It's like this article is saying that fans of any of the so-called "sub-genres" of industrial wear outfits based off of cyberpunk and goth clichés in an effort to fit in with a so-called subculture. Real industrial has no specific dress code or even musical style. It's not about fashion or being offensive. The music itself is more an approach than a genre, using boundless experimentation to combine many genres and styles. And obviously, there is no common ideology. All of this points to the fact that there is NO stereotypical fan. Labels and categorization are the enemy of industrial enthusiasts if anything. Individuality is the thing most encouraged!

What I'm having the hardest time understanding is why a few people here feel the need to broaden it's definition. Do you actually think that acts like Nurse With Wound or Coil are at all similar to Combichrist or Angelspit or that they have the same audience/fanbase? This is just ridiculous!

This article is so messed up.

This article isn't about industrial music and it's meanings or subgenres, we already have a page for that. This article is about the goth club subculture who wear outlandish outfits with goggles or gasmasks.

OK, I checked out other youth culture pages here on Wikipedia and their music section

is much smaller than this one. If anyone wants to condense it further, fine - after all,

this is a public space. But please, I beg you: just don't put that "Rivetheads listen

to EBM and some Dark Ambient" again.

Snippets from the Side-Line forum.

Lovely stuff... these are taken from the What is "Industrial" as a counterculture? [1] thread:

• "...unfortunately the music got way ahead of the counterculture following it".

• "...cybergoth ugh."

• "...today's scene is more into clothing then content (...)."

• "While the sound and craft of the music has progressed, the headspace behind the music has faded. People who listen to serious industrial in the larger scenes and spaces around the world are simple party-drug addicts that like to have their own confined cliche niche. The overcommercialisation and influence of the "cyber" generation has done untold harm to the genre by making it generic and no better than any other electronica genre out there...".

• "Hence, this is why all the music we hear at the moment is necessarily geared towards the dancefloor. However, being danceable is not a bad thing, but the message has died. I mean, exploring the darker side of human nature is all very well, but what's the point of continually glorifying serial killers?".

• "You want to know where industrial culture is currently going? Down the toilet. What's needed is more bands with integrity (...)".

• "Industrial needs a purpose in order to survive."

• "The artistic integrity of the music is diluted, because industrial means nothing really anymore, so really you have to go back to the source, and the source is obsucurant and unwilling to be easly packaged. So instead we have a sort of vacuous meta-culture of pure image: bands that despite playing techno music claim to be industrial because they have a shade of distortion or guitar bit."

And now, snippets from the rec.music.industrial forum.

Enjoy...

These ones are about Industrial Music's current state-of-affairs...

• "Industrial music in its purest form has been dead since the late 80s, as we all know. (...) The things it originally stood for, such as innovation and darkness have turned into other genres such as powernoise (which is not something you can call innovative any more) IDM (...) and the more grindy ambient music. The rest of it signed to Metropolis and started churning out the same old shite.". [2]

• "EBM / Cybergoth / Whatever.. Just turned into Ibiza dance music clones with a slightly darker edge. Just pop music." [3]

And this one is about Cybergoths... not to be confused with Rivetheads:

• "Cybergoths - goggles, clothes from cyberdog, mutlicoloured hair extensions, a taste for glowing and flashing things, tend to be largely into Ultraviolence type gabba and EBM/futurepop type stuff, tend to dance with their elbows." [4] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 189.13.91.239 (talk) 13:48:48, August 19, 2007 (UTC)