2A00:23EE:1940:1DA5:259F:3258:4982:3C2C

August 2023

Hello, I'm DuncanHill. I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions to Ceredigion have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the Teahouse or the Help desk. Thanks. DuncanHill (talk) 21:00, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello Duncan, I know it may not seem so, but I am genuinely nor trying to be awkward or confrontational. I cannot see how including English approximations of a Welsh name is reasonable when they are potentially limitless. If you take 10 English speakers unfamiliar with the name 'Ceredigion' and ask them to describe it phonetically, you may very well end up with 10 approximations. The Welsh pronunciation is standard and consistent. Even if some of the more common approximations are sourced, it doesn't change the above, I belive. 2A00:23EE:1940:1DA5:259F:3258:4982:3C2C (talk) 21:05, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

We use reliable sources on Wikipedia, you were removing material correctly sourced to reliable sources. You behaviour is disruptive and damages the encyclopaedia. DuncanHill (talk) 21:09, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

That's a very robotic view. Because English dictionaries include approximations of Welsh names, they do not deserve to displace Welsh names purely because of their weight. That is simply tyrrany of the majority. Is there not more nuance here, maybe? 2A00:23EE:1940:1DA5:259F:3258:4982:3C2C (talk) 21:12, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

They are not displacing Welsh names, they are giving the English pronunciations on an English-language encyclopaedia. DuncanHill (talk) 21:16, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

They are non-standard English approximations of a Welsh name, which is quite different in fact to two differing pronunciations of an English name. That is the displacement I speak of, though I'm not sure you are likely to see this way of thinking if you do not speak a minoritised native language. 2A00:23EE:1940:1DA5:259F:3258:4982:3C2C (talk) 21:22, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

They are cited English pronunciations. If you don't want English pronunciations on an English-language encyclopaedia then I suggest you get agreement for a policy saying so. DuncanHill (talk) 21:24, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Your attitude is disapointing. You seem unhappy even when the English pronunciations are kept but follow the Welsh pronunciations of which they are approximations. 2A00:23EE:1940:1DA5:259F:3258:4982:3C2C (talk) 21:27, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

He's just following Wikipedia's guidelines, for example: MOS:DUALPRON. If you're opposed to this policy, you'll have to change consensus with the community. FutureFlowsLoveYou (talk) 21:36, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Siaradwyr Saesneg (uniaith, mae'n debyg) - rydych chi'n fy siomi, ond nid ydych yn fy synnu. 2A00:23EE:1940:1DA5:259F:3258:4982:3C2C (talk) 21:38, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

It's still racist even if you think we won't understand it. DuncanHill (talk) 21:39, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

How is noting that the attitude of English speakers towards other languages is disappointing racist in any way? 2A00:23EE:1940:1DA5:259F:3258:4982:3C2C (talk) 21:43, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

In just the same way as it would be racist to ascribe a negative characteristic to Welsh-speakers, or any other language group. DuncanHill (talk) 21:45, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Languages are not restricted to race or any other characteristic. I often receive abuse and ridicule for being a Welsh speaker, but that does not mean that I have been subjected to racism. 2A00:23EE:1940:1DA5:259F:3258:4982:3C2C (talk) 21:50, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes it does. DuncanHill (talk) 22:00, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Language does not constitute race. Also, let's not loose sight of the fact that expressing disappointment with the attitude of English speakers (especially monoglots) towards other languages is not discriminatory to begin with, let alone racist.

Your logic would mean that a rich, white upper-class English speaker would be the victim of racism if somebody criticised their attitude as an English speaker. That is quite ridiculous. 2A00:23EE:1940:1DA5:259F:3258:4982:3C2C (talk) 22:07, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

English second language, you'd do good not to personally attack fellow editors. WP:NOPA FutureFlowsLoveYou (talk) 21:41, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

If you too speak English as a second language, then I would have expected a more nuanced understanding from you. As I said (in Welsh) - disappointing. 2A00:23EE:1940:1DA5:259F:3258:4982:3C2C (talk) 21:52, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Ceredigion. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Repeated vandalism may result in the loss of editing privileges. Thank you. DuncanHill (talk) 21:02, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

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