User talk:Disavian/Archive 6
 | This is an archive of past discussions about User:Disavian. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
| Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | → | Archive 10 |
Request for assistance
As someone with whom I have reviewed or worked with on an article or talk page, I humbly request your assistance in reviewing the Aggie Bonfire page for Featured Article status. Any/all constructive input is welcomed and appreciated on the FAC nomination page, but please read the instructions for reviewing before you make a comment. Thanks in advance for your assistance. — BQZip01 — talk 05:22, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Marion L. Brittain
The article Marion L. Brittain you nominated as a good article has passed 
, see Talk:Marion L. Brittain for eventual comments about the article. Well done! T Rex | talk 14:41, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Wikimania bid
A few dedicated individuals, myself included, are putting together a bid to host Wikimania on Georgia Tech's campus. This is an incredible opportunity, so any assistance that any of you would be able to provide will be greatly appreciated. Please read m:Wikimania 2008/Official requirements for bidding cities and contribute to the ongoing bid, located at m:Wikimania 2008/Bids/Atlanta. The deadline for bids is August 30, 2007, so we need to contact and plan quickly. Thank you for your help. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 21:59, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
- Wow, cool! I notified my research group about this. I'll let you know what they say... MaxVeers 22:33, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
- I have yet to send an email to campus groups, but I'm planning to do so tonight. On my list to email are G. Wayne, Dean of Students, COC Dean, ICPA, and the Conference Center and Hotel. Anyone else I should ask for help that you can think of? Who managed RoboCup? —Disavian (talk/contribs) 22:38, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
- It'd be funny to see little sign posts that say "Featured Article", "Good Article", etc. all over campus.--Excaliburhorn 23:11, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
- LMAO. We have 12 GAs and 2 FA/FLs now, although most of them aren't buildings. It'd be funny to track down Reggie Ball and Calvin Johnson and stick the signs on them. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 23:34, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
- It'd be funny to see little sign posts that say "Featured Article", "Good Article", etc. all over campus.--Excaliburhorn 23:11, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
- I have yet to send an email to campus groups, but I'm planning to do so tonight. On my list to email are G. Wayne, Dean of Students, COC Dean, ICPA, and the Conference Center and Hotel. Anyone else I should ask for help that you can think of? Who managed RoboCup? —Disavian (talk/contribs) 22:38, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Atlanta Wikimania bid IRC meeting
Hello, The first of likely many IRC meetings to coordinate the Atlanta Wikimania bid is being held tonight (Aug 23) at 7:00PM EST in #wikimania-atlanta on irc.freenode.com. If you can, it would be great if you could log on. If not, I am sure there will be plenty more times to discuss the bid :). --Cspurrier 14:19, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
- If you can make it, the second of likely a long series of IRC meetings is being held Friday (Aug 24) at 7:00PM EDT in #wikimania-atlanta on irc.freenode.com. --Cspurrier 19:47, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
Wreck in Technique
Dude, there was a lot of stuff about the Ramblin' Wreck in the Technique. At least 3 or four mentions. Looked pretty good to me. Too bad no one asked for an updated version rather than reprinting the other two articles.--Excaliburhorn 23:05, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
- I didn't have anything to do with the Freshman Issue. Haven't even read it yet. :/ —Disavian (talk/contribs) 23:31, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of WikiScanner
The article WikiScanner you nominated as a good article has failed 
, see Talk:WikiScanner for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of said article. If you oppose this decision, you may ask for a review. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 08:49, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
The Good Article Medal of Merit
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The Good Article Medal of Merit | |
| For all of your work bringing all of those articles on WP:TECH to GA status and beyond. <3 LaMenta3 06:22, 27 August 2007 (UTC) |
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Michael C. Robertson - "Soft Target: The Air" (2007) by Joel Narlock
Actually, all the references in the alumni entry are contained in the book itself. Amazon.com is not a good reference because it is an 'advertisement', but if you go there you'll see more with references to GT professor and the Entomopter in the write up. Perhaps it would be better to use the book as the reference:
- Hardcover: 304 pages
- Publisher: Dan River Press (July 20, 2007)
- Language: English
- ISBN-10: 0897542274
- ISBN-13: 978-0897542272
I'll beef up the actual book reference so someone could find it apart from the author web site. Firewall 17:33, 29 August 2007 (UTC) PS: the reference to the "Georgia Technology Research Institute" is NOT a typo. It, like the name Michael C. Robertson, is a change to reflect the novel's basis in fact, while not making it seem like the book is a biography. Purely a work of fiction, the book models its character and technology after a real GT alumnus with some of the events described taking place on the GT campus (stadium, labs, GTRI), and involving the GT "Entomopter". Firewall 17:54, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
- I figured that's what it was. Just making sure :) —Disavian (talk/contribs) 19:15, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Wikimania Atlanta bid teem meeting
Hello, The Wikimania Atlanta bid teem meeting is being held nightly on weekdays. This week meetings are starting at 9:30EDT and running for a few hours. If you can make it to the meeting (or at least pop in) that would be wonderful. Meetings are in the IRC channel #wikimania-atlanta on irc.freenode.net.--Cspurrier 21:09, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
George P. Burdell in WikiWorld
Hi Disavian -
A few months back, you suggested George P. Burdell as a worthy topic for a WikiWorld comic - and this seemed like the right time to follow up, since a whole new crop of Georgia Tech freshman are learning about Burdell. Thanks for getting in touch. Hope you like my approach. --Greg Williams 05:20, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
- It's perfect :) —Disavian (talk/contribs) 06:12, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Disavian, I cannot remember if the obit says that John K. Snyder, Sr., attended Georgia Tech, or if his son, John K. Snyder, Jr., told me that in a telephone call. I could not verify a year of graduation. So I just put he "attended." I really do not think that he graduated. He has a daughter at Northwestern State University in Natchitoches, LA, a professor there, who could clarify this for you. Billy Hathorn 13:33, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Disavian, Shirley Snyder has recently left NSU in Natchitoches. I would think Snyder would have been at Georgia Tech right after WW2, maybe 1946 or 1947. His son was born in 1944. Do the Ga. Tech records show only those who graduated? I am pretty sure he did not graduate. Would the records there show a major? probably communications, or English in those days. Billy Hathorn 20:18, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- I'll just put down "1947" as the year. Approximate is fine. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 21:26, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
- The term "alumnus" is used if one completed a semester at a college. I wouldn't put 1947 for Snyder, for that is mere conjecture on my part. Billy Hathorn 02:23, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
- Not at Georgia Tech. Look at the lead to List of Georgia Institute of Technology alumni - it's anyone who has completed a semester in good standing-- which is most people who have attended. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 07:32, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
- The term "alumnus" is used if one completed a semester at a college. I wouldn't put 1947 for Snyder, for that is mere conjecture on my part. Billy Hathorn 02:23, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
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Delisting GT articles on userpage
11-Sep-07: Wk*d77 here again as anon. I've had another wiki-stalker following along my userpage-listed articles to add "improvement suggestions" to those main articles (mostly as subtle insults hardcoded into the history summary comments). As a result, I have removed any GT-related articles from my userpage. Again, I dread that you must mingle in this kind of heavy-psycho society: instead, American society is filled with many decent, intelligent people: GT graduates thousands each year. The WP project appears to be a psycho-magnet: just as a stutterer who seeks to become a national news anchor ("Barbwah Wahwah"), or the tone-deaf who want to be famous singers, there is the village idiot who insists on writing encyclopedias. Remember that Selena was shot by the president of her fan club. A WP-style project must block against psychotic people, since its "megalo" importance will attract the megalomaniacs of the world, analogous to the importance of the news anchor or the famous singer. Anyway, I will be more careful not to steer any other wiki-stalkers into your articles. I don't think he did any significant damage. -209.214.44.141 15:16, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
- Um... okay, thanks. Best of luck with that. I must get lucky, since I only have one stalker, and he just likes to vandalize my userpage. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 15:50, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
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Wikimania Atlanta
Hello, Thank you for volunteering to be a part of the Atlanta Wikimaina bid southeast team. We are holding meetings weekdays at 7:30pm EDT in #wikimania-atlanta on irc.freenode.org. For more information about IRC see m:Wikimania_2008/Bids/Atlanta/IRC. If you are able to make it, that would be great.
We now also have Google group for coordinating this bid. To get updates on the bid and our progress, please join the Google Groups mailing list at Google Groups wikimania-atlanta.
There is also a group on the social networking site Facebook in which interested parties can express their support for the bid.
If you do not wish to continue to receive these notifications about the bid or would rather they go to a talk page on a different project please change m: Wikimania_2008/Bids/Atlanta/Notify_list--Cspurrier 21:44, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
WikiProject Georgia Tech
Thanks for your message. It was a balls up on my part, for which I apologise. I was trying to do too many things at once and tagged it in error. I can't meaningfully contribute to the Georgia Tech project, I'm afraid, but if you'd like to help with our assessment drive we only have around 153,000 articles left to include or exclude. :-))) --ROGER DAVIES TALK 06:35, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Articles started by
- Hi you can run this off the database dump with full history, but this is hundred+ gig now. So you would be able to use "stub-history" which is not horrendously big, and just records who + when + bits about the changes. Incidentally I have done this per [[1]] in the past. Rich Farmbrough, 20:12 14 September 2007 (GMT).
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Input on Gulf Breeze High School reversion
Could I get you to take a look at Talk:Gulf Breeze High School#News story about teacher's husband and give your input? It seems like a touchy issue to me, so I'd like your take. It's in the news -- but I don't know that it's sufficiently pertinent to warrant addition to the article. • WarpFlyght (talk • contribs) 03:25, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- I agree that it's tangential to the article at best. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 04:45, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Wikimaina Atlanta meeting
We will be holding a meeting tonight at 9:30pm EDT in #wikimania-atlanta on irc.freenode.org. For more information about IRC see m:Wikimania_2008/Bids/Atlanta/IRC. Please try to be at this meeting as it is one of the last ones before bidding ends and we still have lots that need to be discussed. --Cspurrier 19:40, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Georgia Institute of Technology expansion
Very nice expansions... fyi, the #Profile section is intended to look something like MIT#Student demographics. Perhaps it should be renamed to "Student demographics" once we get some actual demographics in there. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 05:04, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
- I'd support that — we might be a ways off yet. Our research section is especially lacking. Speaking of sections that desperately need work, I think the first paragraph of "Student Life" is a relic from long ago. There are a few awkwardly-worded sentences about dining and that's about it. It's embarrassingly bad. MaxVeers 05:15, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
- That's one of the few sections of the page (the lead being another) that we haven't rewritten. Hey, we got Ramblin' Wreck to FA, yay :) I was thinking that while I'd like to nominate Georgia Institute of Technology, it's not there yet. I'd also like to nominate Calvin Johnson (American football), but I think it needs a few more paragraphs. Another possibility is to nominate Georgia Tech traditions - I don't know what they'd do to that one. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 01:25, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
- Nice job with Ramblin' Wreck! Two featured articles thus far -- not bad at all. Georgia Tech isn't there yet but it can be soon. I'd like to try to get either Tech Tower or Ramblin' Wreck on the front page on October 13. What do you think? MaxVeers 01:52, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah, I think October 13 is a great date for a front-page FA. :) Not sure where to ask about that, but it sounds good. Oh, just in case you didn't know, I split List of Georgia Institute of Technology athletes from List of Georgia Institute of Technology alumni, and immediately nominated it for Featured List status. Surprisingly, the nom has been somewhat difficult (given that I had featured-level content to start with), but I think that it'll get promoted; if it doesn't, it shouldn't be difficult to fix the problems (at the moment, too many redlinks) and renominate. On the other hand, the problems with History of Georgia Tech require a lot of work; have you seen Talk:History of Georgia Tech/to do? It's obnoxious. You need to use IM more often, by the way. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 02:01, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- Ok, found it. Read Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests and perhaps we can draw up a request to add to that page when one of the current requests is removed. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 02:50, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- Something like this:
- Nice job with Ramblin' Wreck! Two featured articles thus far -- not bad at all. Georgia Tech isn't there yet but it can be soon. I'd like to try to get either Tech Tower or Ramblin' Wreck on the front page on October 13. What do you think? MaxVeers 01:52, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- That's one of the few sections of the page (the lead being another) that we haven't rewritten. Hey, we got Ramblin' Wreck to FA, yay :) I was thinking that while I'd like to nominate Georgia Institute of Technology, it's not there yet. I'd also like to nominate Calvin Johnson (American football), but I think it needs a few more paragraphs. Another possibility is to nominate Georgia Tech traditions - I don't know what they'd do to that one. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 01:25, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Tech Tower derives its nickname from a prominent seven-story central tower dominating the building's facade and visible from many parts of the Georgia Tech campus and surrounding area. Lighted signs in the shape of the word TECH hang atop each of the tower's four sides. A number of times, Georgia Tech students have accomplished the arduous task of stealing the letter 'T' from one of these signs, a prank now strictly forbidden by Institute officials despite prior attitudes to the contrary.
Tech Tower has achieved local cultural and historical significance in the century since its construction. Monuments and plaques commemorating philanthropy towards Georgia Tech adorn Tech Tower and the surrounding landscape. The red brick, Victorian-style building serves as the architectural anchor of the Georgia Institute of Technology Historic District, a landmark of tradition and school spirit, and the present-day administrative hub of the Institute. It has been the site of many ceremonies and important events, including a visit by U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt and its dedication in honor of Lettie Pate Whitehead Evans, "Tech's greatest benefactor." (more...)I'd like to nominate Tech Tower for October 13, as that's the date that the Georgia Institute of Technology was founded. The article was promoted on June 1, 2007. ~~~~
Calvin Johnson
Hey there, would love to help anyway I can. I live in Michigan now so I'll see if I notice anything in our local press on him to help fill in the gaps. Also, when linking to a category in the body of text, be sure to type ":" before "Category" to actually link to that category instead of including that article in the category. -Drdisque 03:18, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks! Yeah, I know how to link categories and images, but I don't do it often enough to remember to use the leading colon. I figure that the information is all out there on the internet, it just requires decent google-fu. I've managed to snag at least one reference for all of the recent developments, so (thankfully) verification isn't a problem for that article. :) —Disavian (talk/contribs) 04:27, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Dragoncon
Can you explain why you put "unreferenced-section" on the History section of Dragoncon. There are references. Maybe you want more? There is a different tag for requesting more references, instead of using the "unreferenced-section" tag. Mjrmtg 17:59, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- One reference does not a referenced section make. Nevertheless, I switched the tag from {{unreferencedsection}} to {{refimprovesection}}. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 19:37, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- I count 2 references ;) Thanks for changing it. Mjrmtg 20:44, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- For an example of a "referenced section", see articles that I've worked on; ex: History of Georgia Tech. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 20:53, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- I count 2 references ;) Thanks for changing it. Mjrmtg 20:44, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
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Jo or Joanne Guest?
Your input is welcome at Talk:Joanne Guest#Page title: Jo or Joanne? --AnonEMouse (squeak) 17:15, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Social Parking
Hi Disavian,
I would like to seek your support for the Wikipedia article Social Parking. I have changed the entry a little more and added some relevant refereances. I intend to discuss the topic with more details should I gain enough support for the article. Can you help?
Truly, the term is not a new invention. It is recognized within companines such as Sedo.com, DomainSponsor.com, etc.
Cheers,
IDNexpert 19:36, 30 September 2007(UTC)
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I have provided a preliminary review of the article Dyson Sphere to achieve good article status by addressing manual of style technicalities via a semi automatic peer review which is easy to install BTW if you wish to use it. With the error tags of citation needed the article could be quick failed please address this ASAP! Remove the statements or provide citations requested in the two separate places. The good article template shows the progress of the good article review to date. I have requested a second review regarding the scope and coverage of the article's information. Good luck with your article. SriMesh | talk 21:17, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
- I think I addressed most, if not all, of the concerns on the talk page. Could you have another look at the article and tell me if I missed anything? —Disavian (talk/contribs) 04:34, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
- Hello- re did semi automatic peer review and placed a red x or not on the issues still to be fixed, and placed a green checkmark for points adequately fixed for the program. Good job on the updates BTW.
- Added a note about potential infoboxes which may come in handy.
- Also you may wish to peruse members of WikiProject Astronomical objects, WikiProject Science Fiction or Good article reviewers for assistance in passing point 3 regarding coverage of the article.
- Possibly placing the article in this category Category:Astronomy articles needing expert attention may help to get the broad coverage aspect double checked. Even though its basis is hypothetical, it was reviewed by a physicist and mathematician and his findings were published in a science journal.
- BTW a citation would be handy for the above fact about the paper named "Search for Artificial Stellar Sources of Infra-Red Radiation"
Kind Regards and again good luckSriMesh | talk 05:24, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
- Your auto peer-reviewer script says "Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Build the web, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006." - I can't find a full date that hasn't been linked. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 17:59, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
The program is still finding this error...I don't see any dates to link, however the full message in the script code is...Only make links that are relevant to the context and Build the web. So just double check your WWW links that all facts have ciations and all should be good to go. Kind Regards and thanks for the update. SriMesh | talk 02:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I made a wiki for the club, can you help me edit it properly when you get a chance? Danke schoen! --Jesspanda 16:29, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
FL Main page proposal
You either nominated a WP:FLC or closed such a nomination recently. As such, you are the type of editor whose opinion I am soliciting. We now have over 400 featured lists and seem to be promoting in excess of 30 per month of late (41 in August and 42 in September). When Today's featured article (TFA) started (2004-02-22), they only had about 200 featured articles and were barely promoting 20 new ones per month. I think the quality of featured lists is at least as good as the quality of featured articles was when they started appearing on the main page. Thus, I am ready to open debate on a proposal to institute a List of the Day on the main page with nominations starting November 1 2007, voting starting December 1 2007 and main page appearances starting January 1 2008. For brevity, the proposal page does not discuss the details of eventual main page content, but since the work has already been done, you should consider this proposal assuming the eventual content will resemble the current content at the featured content page. Such output would probably start at the bottom of the main page. The proposal page does not debate whether starting with weekly list main page entries would be better than daily entries. However, I suspect persons in favor of weekly lists are really voicing opinions against lists on the main page since neither TFA nor Picture of the day started as weekly endeavors, to the best of my knowledge. See the List of the Day proposal and comment at WP:LOTDP and its talk page.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:38, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Image
Found an image here. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 04:51, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
- If that link doesn't work, try this one or this one. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 04:55, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
- Wow, nice find! I wish I'd seen that earlier -- that short bio and his full name would have saved me hours of research. Ah, well, the hunt was a fun one. MaxVeers 05:16, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Wikimania 2008/Conference of the Americas
Hello, As you may or may not know, Alexandria, Egypt was selected to host Wikimania 2008 [2]. So as to prevent the hard work of the many Wikimedians involved in the Atlanta bid from going to waste, we have decided to host a conference for the Americas. This is in no way an attempt to compete with Wikimania or make a statement against Wikimania.
As one of the people signed up to help with the Wikimania Atlanta bid, we hope you will join us at the Wikimedia Conference of the Americas. We will be having a meeting tonight in IRC tonight (Oct 15) at 9:30PM in #cota-atlanta on irc.freenode.org to discuss the conference. For more information about IRC see [3].
For more information about the Wikimedia Conference of the Americas see http://www.cota-atlanta.org and our wiki http://www.cota-atlanta.org/wiki.
If you do not wish to receive further notices about the COTA please remove your name from our notify list. --Cspurrier 18:09, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Signpost updated for October 15th, 2007.
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Hi, I just did a quick review Wikipedia:Peer review/Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets football/archive1. The lead really needs to be expanded. If you can't get to it in the next few days that's ok, but if the lead doesn't get fixed I'll probably nominate it for GA delisting. Thanks, Jeff Dahl 22:10, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
- User:LaMenta3 seems to have taken care of that. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 19:13, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Your userpage
I notice you've been getting a lot of userpage vandalism. You might like this userbox. Michaelbusch 04:04, 18 October 2007 (UTC):
Attack by IP
Hi, I have semi-protected your user page for 1 month by which time hopefully he will have got over it. This is likely to be more effective than a block because if blocked he can simply come back from another IP address. HTH. TerriersFan 22:32, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for your help. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 22:33, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Santorum (sexual neologism)
The article Santorum (sexual neologism) you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold.
It hasn't failed because it's basically a good article, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within seven days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Santorum (sexual neologism) for things needed to be addressed. You have until Friday October 23rd to make the necessary changes. If no action has been taken after that date, the article may be failed immediately. VanTucky Talk 23:43, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Stanley Dunin talk page
Did I do that? Oops, I guess that was supposed to go on the vote page, not the talk page. My bad. Thanks for fixing that. :S Mindraker 15:35, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
- It's okay, could happen to anyone :) —Disavian (talk/contribs) 19:58, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Speedy During AfD
The speedy tag of an article does not need to be removed just because it is in the AfD process. They are 2 separate entities. Would you have removed the tag had it been a copyvio issue? Of course not. A speedy deletion saves editors time at AfD and can expedite the process should it be appropriate. In this case, the tag was of a different nature that the AfD and I believe your call to remove the tag was hasty and unnecessary. the_undertow talk 00:59, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
- Well, there's not a consensus for speedy at the deletion page. If both of the comments on that page had been "Speedy delete", then yes, I'd agree with the speedy tag. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 01:02, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
- Speedy deletion doesn't need consensus. An article can be deleted for several reasons if it is in violation of more than one policy. I'd rather see it go early, if it qualifies, and save some editors' time and free some space at AfD. the_undertow talk 01:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC)