Llew Mawr

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Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or , and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome! MPS1992 (talk) 23:01, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

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Hi Llew Mawr! We're so happy you wanted to play to learn, as a friendly and fun way to get into our community and mission. I think these links might be helpful to you as you get started.

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Welcome to The Wikipedia Adventure!

Hi Llew Mawr! We're so happy you wanted to play to learn, as a friendly and fun way to get into our community and mission. I think these links might be helpful to you as you get started.

• The Wikipedia Adventure Start Page
• The Wikipedia Adventure Lounge
• The Teahouse new editor help space
• Wikipedia Help pages

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Mission 1	Mission 2	Mission 3	Mission 4	Mission 5	Mission 6	Mission 7
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Get Help

About The Wikipedia Adventure | Hang out in the Interstellar Lounge

MOS:DABGROUPING

Regarding Uncategorized entries should never be left at the top, this applies to the practice of moving entries out of an "Other uses" section into an uncategorized list at the top of the page. I think you may have been applying this overly broadly by moving entries that are already categorized into subsections of the category. older ≠ wiser 16:59, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

If you are referring to my recent edits on Nova (disambiguation), I thought I was probably quoting the wrong policy (but was editing from the mobile app where it is hard to find pages outside of article space). It is of course MOS:DP's clarifying supplement at WP:LONGDAB#Other uses that makes it explicit that MOS:DABGROUPING should also be applied to sections to avoid confusion/WP:SUPRISE to the reader.

Llew Mawr (talk) 19:36, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

While much of it is quite reasonable, MOS:DP is really just an essay primarily by one editor. I don't see how WP:SUPRISE would apply. If the choice is between sub-section(s) with only one or two entries or just placing them under the main heading before other more populated subsections, I think it'd be clearer to simply group them under the main heading. older ≠ wiser 20:00, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the insight. Though I didn't reply at the time, I have taken this wisdom on board and I do take some of the more controversial WP:DAB or MOS:DP policies with more of a pinch of salt now. In particular, avoiding edting dab pages merely to do things that might clash with the orgnaisational style of other editors like yourself who specialise in dab pages, and triyng to use common sense and [{WP:IAR]] more to consider what looks best in each situation. Whilst I still think it is a bit of a kludge to leave some entries at the top of a page, I won't be moving them from there unless there is already an appropriate subsection or another good reason to create one (like it could contain a few entries).

Llew Mawr (talk) 19:54, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Editing News #2—2018

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Did you know?

Did you know that you can use the visual editor on a mobile device?

Tap on the pencil icon to start editing. The page will probably open in the wikitext editor.

You will see another pencil icon in the toolbar. Tap on that pencil icon to the switch between visual editing and wikitext editing.

Remember to publish your changes when you're done.

You can read and help translate the user guide, which has more information about how to use the visual editor.

Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team has wrapped up most of their work on the 2017 wikitext editor and the visual diff tool. The team has begun investigating the needs of editors who use mobile devices. Their work board is available in Phabricator. Their current priorities are fixing bugs and improving mobile editing.

Recent changes

• The Editing team has published an initial report about mobile editing.
• The Editing team has begun a design study of visual editing on the mobile website. New editors have trouble doing basic tasks on a smartphone, such as adding links to Wikipedia articles. You can read the report.
• The Reading team is working on a separate mobile-based contributions project.
• The 2006 wikitext editor is no longer supported. If you used that toolbar, then you will no longer see any toolbar. You may choose another editing tool in your editing preferences, local gadgets, or beta features.
• The Editing team described the history and status of VisualEditor in this recorded public presentation (starting at 29 minutes, 30 seconds).
• The Language team released a new version of Content Translation (CX2) last month, on International Translation Day. It integrates the visual editor to support templates, tables, and images. It also produces better wikitext when the translated article is published. [1]

Let's work together

• The Editing team wants to improve visual editing on the mobile website. Please read their ideas and tell the team what you think would help editors who use the mobile site.
• The Community Wishlist Survey begins next week.
• If you aren't reading this in your preferred language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact us directly. We will notify you when the next issue is ready for translation. Thank you!

— Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:12, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

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Editing News #1—July 2019

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Did you know?

Did you know that you can use the visual editor on a mobile device?

Every article has a pencil icon at the top. Tap on the pencil icon to start editing.

Edit Cards

This is what the new Edit Cards for editing links in the mobile visual editor look like. You can try the prototype here: 📲 Try Edit Cards.

Welcome back to the Editing newsletter.

Since the last newsletter, the team has released two new features for the mobile visual editor and has started developing three more. All of this work is part of the team's goal to make editing on mobile web simpler.

Before talking about the team's recent releases, we have a question for you:

Are you willing to try a new way to add and change links?

If you are interested, we would value your input! You can try this new link tool in the mobile visual editor on a separate wiki.

Follow these instructions and share your experience:

📲 Try Edit Cards.

Recent releases

The mobile visual editor is a simpler editing tool, for smartphones and tablets using the mobile site. The Editing team has recently launched two new features to improve the mobile visual editor:

1. Section editing
   • The purpose is to help contributors focus on their edits.
   • The team studied this with an A/B test. This test showed that contributors who could use section editing were 1% more likely to publish the edits they started than people with only full-page editing.
2. Loading overlay
   • The purpose is to smooth the transition between reading and editing.

Section editing and the new loading overlay are now available to everyone using the mobile visual editor.

New and active projects

This is a list of our most active projects. Watch these pages to learn about project updates and to share your input on new designs, prototypes and research findings.

• Edit cards: This is a clearer way to add and edit links, citations, images, templates, etc. in articles. You can try this feature now. Go here to see how: 📲Try Edit Cards.
• Mobile toolbar refresh: This project will learn if contributors are more successful when the editing tools are easier to recognize.
• Mobile visual editor availability: This A/B test asks: Are newer contributors more successful if they use the mobile visual editor? We are collaborating with 20 Wikipedias to answer this question.
• Usability improvements: This project will make the mobile visual editor easier to use.  The goal is to let contributors stay focused on editing and to feel more confident in the editing tools.

Looking ahead

• Wikimania: Several members of the Editing Team will be attending Wikimania in August 2019. They will lead a session about mobile editing in the Community Growth space. Talk to them about how editing can be improved.
• Talk Pages: In the coming months, the Editing Team will begin improving talk pages and communication on the wikis.

Learning more

The VisualEditor on mobile is a good place to learn more about the projects we are working on. The team wants to talk with you about anything related to editing. If you have something to say or ask, please leave a message at Talk:VisualEditor on mobile.

PPelberg (WMF) (talk) and Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:25, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Editing News #2 – Mobile editing and talk pages – October 2019

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Inside this newsletter, the Editing team talks about their work on the mobile visual editor, on the new talk pages project, and at Wikimania 2019.

Help

What talk page interactions do you remember? Is it a story about how someone helped you to learn something new? Is it a story about how someone helped you get involved in a group? Something else? Whatever your story is, we want to hear it!

Please tell us a story about how you used a talk page. Please share a link to a memorable discussion, or describe it on the talk page for this project. The team would value your examples. These examples will help everyone develop a shared understanding of what this project should support and encourage.

Talk Pages

The Talk Pages Consultation was a global consultation to define better tools for wiki communication. From February through June 2019, more than 500 volunteers on 20 wikis, across 15 languages and multiple projects, came together with members of the Foundation to create a product direction for a set of discussion tools. The Phase 2 Report of the Talk Page Consultation was published in August. It summarizes the product direction the team has started to work on, which you can read more about here: Talk Page Project project page.

The team needs and wants your help at this early stage. They are starting to develop the first idea. Please add your name to the "Getting involved" section of the project page, if you would like to hear about opportunities to participate.

Mobile visual editor

The Editing team is trying to make it simpler to edit on mobile devices. The team is changing the visual editor on mobile. If you have something to say about editing on a mobile device, please leave a message at Talk:VisualEditor on mobile.

Edit Cards

What happens when you click on a link. The new Edit Card is bigger and has more options for editing links.

• On 3 September, the Editing team released version 3 of Edit Cards. Anyone could use the new version in the mobile visual editor.
• There is an updated design on the Edit Card for adding and modifying links. There is also a new, combined workflow for editing a link's display text and target.
• Feedback: You can try the new Edit Cards by opening the mobile visual editor on a smartphone. Please post your feedback on the Edit cards talk page.

Toolbar

The editing toolbar is changing in the mobile visual editor. The old system had two different toolbars. Now, all the buttons are together. Tell the team what you think about the new toolbar.

• In September, the Editing team updated the mobile visual editor's editing toolbar. Anyone could see these changes in the mobile visual editor.
  • One toolbar: All of the editing tools are located in one toolbar. Previously, the toolbar changed when you clicked on different things.
  • New navigation: The buttons for moving forward and backward in the edit flow have changed.
  • Seamless switching: an improved workflow for switching between the visual and wikitext modes.
• Feedback: You can try the refreshed toolbar by opening the mobile VisualEditor on a smartphone. Please post your feedback on the Toolbar feedback talk page.

Wikimania

The Editing Team attended Wikimania 2019 in Sweden. They led a session on the mobile visual editor and a session on the new talk pages project. They tested two new features in the mobile visual editor with contributors. You can read more about what the team did and learned in the team's report on Wikimania 2019.

Looking ahead

• Talk Pages Project: The team is thinking about the first set of proposed changes. The team will be working with a few communities to pilot those changes. The best way to stay informed is by adding your username to the list on the project page: Getting involved.
• Testing the mobile visual editor as the default: The Editing team plans to post results before the end of the calendar year. The best way to stay informed is by adding the project page to your watchlist: VisualEditor as mobile default project page.
• Measuring the impact of Edit Cards: The Editing team hopes to share results in November. This study asks whether the project helped editors add links and citations. The best way to stay informed is by adding the project page to your watchlist: Edit Cards project page.

– PPelberg (WMF) (talk) & Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 16:51, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

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Editing news 2020 #1 – Discussion tools

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This early version of the Reply tool automatically signs and indents comments.

The Editing team has been working on the talk pages project. The goal of the talk pages project is to help contributors communicate on wiki more easily. This project is the result of the Talk pages consultation 2019.

In a future update, the team plans to test a tool for easily linking to another user's name, a rich-text editing option, and other tools.

The team is building a new tool for replying to comments now. This early version can sign and indent comments automatically. Please test the new Reply tool.

• On 31 March 2020, the new reply tool was offered as a Beta Feature editors at four Wikipedias: Arabic, Dutch, French, and Hungarian. If your community also wants early access to the new tool, contact User:Whatamidoing (WMF).
• The team is planning some upcoming changes. Please review the proposed design and share your thoughts on the talk page. The team will test features such as:
  • an easy way to mention another editor ("pinging"),
  • a rich-text visual editing option, and
  • other features identified through user testing or recommended by editors.

To hear more about Editing Team updates, please add your name to the "Get involved" section of the project page. You can also watch these pages: the main project page, Updates, Replying, and User testing.

– PPelberg (WMF) (talk) & Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 15:45, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Senedd redirect

Hey, I've reverted your redirect of Senedd to Senedd Cymru, as I think that the better solution would be the other way around; as a result, I've opened a move discussion at Talk:Senedd Cymru. Sceptre (talk) 11:50, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

I replied in detail there, User:Sceptre. Given you seem to support your own move proposal, I'd point out it would (partially) revert your own move (nothing wrong with that; we all change our minds). So, if, even you cannot decide what the common name is due to lack of reliable sources, I think we should stop moving any pages until they become clearer. I won't be reverting things back to Assembly either as that could cause WP:SURPRISE.

Llew Mawr (talk) 12:07, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Welsh Lions

Lions don't live in Wales?? What nonsense! Martinevans123 (talk) 19:16, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #2 – Quick updates

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The new features include a toolbar. What do you think should be in the toolbar?

This edition of the Editing newsletter includes information the Wikipedia:Talk pages project, an effort to help contributors communicate on wiki more easily. The central project page is on MediaWiki.org.

• Reply tool: This is available as a Beta Feature at the four partner wikis (Arabic, Dutch, French, and Hungarian Wikipedias). The Beta Feature will get new features soon. The new features include writing comments in a new visual editing mode and pinging other users by typing @. You can test the new features on the Beta Cluster. Some other wikis will have a chance to try the Beta Feature in the coming months.
• New requirements for user signatures: Soon, users will not be able to save invalid custom signatures in Special:Preferences. This will reduce signature spoofing, prevent page corruption, and make new talk page tools more reliable. Most editors will not be affected.
• New discussion tool: The Editing team is beginning work on a simpler process for starting new discussions. You can see the initial design on the project page.
• Research on the use of talk pages: The Editing team worked with the Wikimedia research team to study how talk pages help editors improve articles. We learned that new editors who use talk pages make more edits to the main namespace than new editors who don't use talk pages.

– Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:11, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

FRS

Hi there, thanks very much for your interest in the FRS

It looks like in these edits you accidentally edited an older version of the WP:FRS page, meaning a lot of other peoples' changes were reverted as well as adding your own name. I've undone your edits, just to make sure that people's preferences are updated correctly, but please feel free to readd your name to the categories you were looking to put it in!

All the best, Naypta ☺ | ✉ talk page | 16:56, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

@Naypta: Sorry about that. Weird that I didn't get an edit conflict warning. Llew Mawr (talk) 17:04, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #3

On 16 March 2020, the 50 millionth edit was made using the visual editor on desktop.

Seven years ago this week, the Editing team made the visual editor available by default to all logged-in editors using the desktop site at the English Wikipedia. Here's what happened since its introduction:

• The 50 millionth edit using the visual editor on desktop was made this year. More than 10 million edits have been made here at the English Wikipedia.
• More than 2 million new articles have been created in the visual editor. More than 600,000 of these new articles were created during 2019.
• Almost 5 million edits on the mobile site have been made with the visual editor. Most of these edits have been made since the Editing team started improving the mobile visual editor in 2018.
• The proportion of all edits made using the visual editor has been increasing every year.
• Editors have made more than 7 million edits in the 2017 wikitext editor, including starting 600,000 new articles in it. The 2017 wikitext editor is VisualEditor's built-in wikitext mode. You can enable it in your preferences.
• On 17 November 2019, the first edit from outer space was made in the mobile visual editor.
• In 2019, 35% of the edits by newcomers, and half of their first edits, were made using the visual editor. This percentage has been increasing every year since the tool became available.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 02:06, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

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"Eugenia Pierre" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Eugenia Pierre. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 August 5#Eugenia Pierre until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:58, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

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Kamala Harris

I don't get it. The man's last name is Harris. He goes by "Kamala" professionally. Why is there a problem?— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:29, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

@Vchimpanzee: Sorry. I withdraw any objection. Others have reverted my revert anyway. I thought it might be considered dab clutter, but it seemes some sources have rarely referred to him as "Kamala Harris". Llew Mawr (talk) 20:34, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

If you look here it makes perfect sense.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:41, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Editing news 2020 #4

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Reply tool

The number of comments posted with the Reply Tool from March through June 2020. People used the Reply Tool to post over 7,400 comments with the tool.

The Reply tool has been available as a Beta Feature at the Arabic, Dutch, French and Hungarian Wikipedias since 31 March 2020. The first analysis showed positive results.

• More than 300 editors used the Reply tool at these four Wikipedias. They posted more than 7,400 replies during the study period.
• Of the people who posted a comment with the Reply tool, about 70% of them used the tool multiple times. About 60% of them used it on multiple days.
• Comments from Wikipedia editors are positive. One said, أعتقد أن الأداة تقدم فائدة ملحوظة؛ فهي تختصر الوقت لتقديم رد بدلًا من التنقل بالفأرة إلى وصلة تعديل القسم أو الصفحة، التي تكون بعيدة عن التعليق الأخير في الغالب، ويصل المساهم لصندوق التعديل بسرعة باستخدام الأداة. ("I think the tool has a significant impact; it saves time to reply while the classic way is to move with a mouse to the Edit link to edit the section or the page which is generally far away from the comment. And the user reaches to the edit box so quickly to use the Reply tool.")[2]

The Editing team released the Reply tool as a Beta Feature at eight other Wikipedias in early August. Those Wikipedias are in the Chinese, Czech, Georgian, Serbian, Sorani Kurdish, Swedish, Catalan, and Korean languages. If you would like to use the Reply tool at your wiki, please tell User talk:Whatamidoing (WMF).

The Reply tool is still in active development. Per request from the Dutch Wikipedia and other editors, you will be able to customize the edit summary. (The default edit summary is "Reply".) A "ping" feature is available in the Reply tool's visual editing mode. This feature searches for usernames. Per request from the Arabic Wikipedia, each wiki will be able to set its own preferred symbol for pinging editors. Per request from editors at the Japanese and Hungarian Wikipedias, each wiki can define a preferred signature prefix in the page MediaWiki:Discussiontools-signature-prefix. For example, some languages omit spaces before signatures. Other communities want to add a dash or a non-breaking space.

New requirements for user signatures

• The new requirements for custom user signatures began on 6 July 2020. If you try to create a custom signature that does not meet the requirements, you will get an error message.
• Existing custom signatures that do not meet the new requirements will be unaffected temporarily. Eventually, all custom signatures will need to meet the new requirements. You can check your signature and see lists of active editors whose custom signatures need to be corrected. Volunteers have been contacting editors who need to change their custom signatures. If you need to change your custom signature, then please read the help page.

Next: New discussion tool

Next, the team will be working on a tool for quickly and easily starting a new discussion section to a talk page. To follow the development of this new tool, please put the New Discussion Tool project page on your watchlist.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:48, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

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Editing news 2021 #1

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Reply tool

Completion rates for comments made with the Reply tool and full-page wikitext editing. Details and limitations are in this report.

The Reply tool is available at most other Wikipedias.

• The Reply tool has been deployed as an opt-out preference to all editors at the Arabic, Czech, and Hungarian Wikipedias.
• It is also available as a Beta Feature at almost all Wikipedias except for the English, Russian, and German-language Wikipedias. If it is not available at your wiki, you can request it by following these simple instructions.

Research notes:

• As of January 2021, more than 3,500 editors have used the Reply tool to post about 70,000 comments.
• There is preliminary data from the Arabic, Czech, and Hungarian Wikipedia on the Reply tool. Junior Contributors who use the Reply tool are more likely to publish the comments that they start writing than those who use full-page wikitext editing.[3]
• The Editing and Parsing teams have significantly reduced the number of edits that affect other parts of the page. About 0.3% of edits did this during the last month.[4] Some of the remaining changes are automatic corrections for Special:LintErrors.
• A large A/B test will start soon.[5] This is part of the process to offer the Reply tool to everyone. During this test, half of all editors at 24 Wikipedias (not including the English Wikipedia) will have the Reply tool automatically enabled, and half will not. Editors at those Wikipeedias can still turn it on or off for their own accounts in Special:Preferences.

New discussion tool

Screenshot of version 1.0 of the New Discussion Tool prototype.

The new tool for starting new discussions (new sections) will join the Discussion tools in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-betafeatures at the end of January. You can try the tool for yourself.[6] You can leave feedback in this thread or on the talk page.

Next: Notifications

During Talk pages consultation 2019, editors said that it should be easier to know about new activity in conversations they are interested in. The Notifications project is just beginning. What would help you become aware of new comments? What's working with the current system? Which pages at your wiki should the team look at? Please post your advice at mw:Talk:Talk pages project/Notifications.

–Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:02, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

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Editing news 2021 #2

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When newcomers had the Reply tool and tried to post on a talk page, they were more successful at posting a comment. (Source)

Earlier this year, the Editing team ran a large study of the Reply Tool. The main goal was to find out whether the Reply Tool helped newer editors communicate on wiki. The second goal was to see whether the comments that newer editors made using the tool needed to be reverted more frequently than comments newer editors made with the existing wikitext page editor.

The key results were:

• Newer editors who had automatic ("default on") access to the Reply tool were more likely to post a comment on a talk page.
• The comments that newer editors made with the Reply Tool were also less likely to be reverted than the comments that newer editors made with page editing.

These results give the Editing team confidence that the tool is helpful.

Looking ahead

The team is planning to make the Reply tool available to everyone as an opt-out preference in the coming months. This has already happened at the Arabic, Czech, and Hungarian Wikipedias.

The next step is to resolve a technical challenge. Then, they will deploy the Reply tool first to the Wikipedias that participated in the study. After that, they will deploy it, in stages, to the other Wikipedias and all WMF-hosted wikis.

You can turn on "Discussion Tools" in Beta Features now. After you get the Reply tool, you can change your preferences at any time in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion.

–Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk)

00:27, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

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Wikipedia:LONGDAB

Omicron (disambiguation) I have nothing more to add than what was said above at #MOS:DABGROUPING . Whether a section name is listed in LONGDAB or not really has no weight at all, and trying to follow too closely what is one editors essay in the face of the general consensus of MOS guideline of keeping section names small is the main consideration. Widefox; talk 21:40, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

I meant to "thank" you for your edit. In hindsight, I agree with your assessment for exactly those reasons.

Llew Mawr (talk) 23:23, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

oh, OK. No problem. I've only just had the author of that essay trying to say that my edits are explicitly not allowed, but when challenged they did not back up their argument, so I'm not feeling the love for that essay for exactly this reasoning of overprescription instead of simplicity. When you edited this dab citing it, it couldn't have been worse timing from my perspective. Widefox; talk 20:03, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

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.gp

Your revert was certainly done in good faith. May I remark, however, that the top level domain country codes are usually listed under "places", no matter how close you think the association with computing would be. See e.g. DE. Either you are now on your way to change all other TLD entries in the disambiguation pages or... ? -- Kku (talk) 12:21, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

I've seen both IME of editing DPs (longer ones with lots of sections per MOS:DABGROUPING tend to put it under Computing). I just added .gp to Computing. If you want to move it to Places, go ahead.

I only reverted so it notified you in case you disagreed partially, and because .gp has its own page so needed its own entry on a separate line from Guadeloupe.

Llew Mawr (talk) 12:31, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

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Tongue (disambiguation)

Hello - thanks for your edits. I hope you don't mind that I made a couple of changes. I also created Old Tongue (disambiguation) which you correctly included as a WP:INTDAB link but was a redlink. Regards, Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 18:30, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

@Shhhnotsoloud That's odd it wasn't already a redirect (I couldn't see it was a relink from the mobile app). No problem with the revert: I was being a bit petty/OCD trying to get the order/style of the descriptions for music entries consistent. Llew Mawr (talk) 18:51, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

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Editing newsletter 2022 – #1

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New editors were more successful with this new tool.

The New topic tool helps editors create new ==Sections== on discussion pages. New editors are more successful with this new tool. You can read the report. Soon, the Editing team will offer this to all editors at most WMF-hosted wikis. You can join the discussion about this tool for the English Wikipedia is at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Enabling the New Topic Tool by default. You will be able to turn it off in the tool or at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion.

The Editing team plans to change the appearance of talk pages. These are separate from the changes made by the mw:Desktop improvements project and will appear in both Vector 2010 and Vector 2022. The goal is to add some information and make discussions look visibly different from encyclopedia articles. You can see some ideas at Wikipedia talk:Talk pages project#Prototype Ready for Feedback.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk)

23:14, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

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Thanks to you, I’ve joined the ShortDesc Project

I appreciate it! Best wishes, Left Central (talk) 03:16, 4 July 2022 (UTC) Left Central (talk) 03:16, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

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"Sans domicile fixe" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Sans domicile fixe and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 17#Sans domicile fixe until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 18:12, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

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Editing news 2022 #2

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The [subscribe] button shortens response times.

The new [subscribe] button notifies people when someone replies to their comments. It helps newcomers get answers to their questions. People reply sooner. You can read the report. The Editing team is turning this tool on for everyone. You will be able to turn it off in your preferences.

–Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 00:35, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

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Editing news 2023 #1

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This newsletter includes two key updates about the Editing team's work:

1. The Editing team will finish adding new features to the Talk pages project and deploy it.
2. They are beginning a new project, Edit check.

Talk pages project

Some of the upcoming changes

The Editing team is nearly finished with this first phase of the Talk pages project. Nearly all new features are available now in the Beta Feature for Discussion tools.

It will show information about how active a discussion is, such as the date of the most recent comment. There will soon be a new "Add topic" button. You will be able to turn them off at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing-discussion. Please tell them what you think.

Daily edit completion rate by test group: DiscussionTools (test group) and MobileFrontend overlay (control group)

An A/B test for Discussion tools on the mobile site has finished. Editors were more successful with Discussion tools. The Editing team is enabling these features for all editors on the mobile site.

New Project: Edit Check

The Editing team is beginning a project to help new editors of Wikipedia. It will help people identify some problems before they click "Publish changes". The first tool will encourage people to add references when they add new content. Please watch that page for more information. You can join a conference call on 3 March 2023 to learn more.

–Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:19, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Short descriptions

Hi. Short descriptions are basically a more wordy disambiguator, but practically limited to 40 characters. Your SD on Tyre Nichols is a bit long IMHO, from the guidelines I have grepped so far:

• Template:Short description
• Wikipedia:WikiProject Short descriptions
• ;;Wikipedia:Short description]]

Carry on. Cheers! {{u|WikiWikiWayne}} {Talk} 04:11, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

@WikiWikiWayne I've now cut it down to 40 characters but that has never been a hard limit. it depends on what is required to provide an overview (with geographic and temporal context). Llew Mawr (talk) 17:16, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

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Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment

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Thank you!

Thank you for your thank to my edit on Paper towns. I have 470-ish edits and this is the 2nd time i've ever been thanked!

Thank You, A.FLOCK (talk) 16:54, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

@A.FLOCK I was expressing gratitude to you for reverting my own edit I made whilst tired since, in hindsight, my edit wasn't substantially better than the status quo, it had some issues you explained well, and, whilst brevity is important for dab pages, I was unnecessarily moving deck chairs and being a little tendacious in enforcing it. Llew Mawr (talk) 19:32, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

@A.FLOCK On occassion, I make edits I'm not certain are improvments knowing if they aren't I'll be reverted. Llew Mawr (talk) 19:33, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the awesome edit.

Your edit to the lead section of the AI article was awesome. "Such machines may be called AIs." Is IMHO better than the original *and* better than my (attempt at an) improvement. I feel happy now, because I like the final version of the sentence a lot, especially the concision of it, and I think I played my part in improving the sentence. You actually outdid me in copy editing (I don't see that very often, believe me), and I th think you taught me something useful in the process, which is a new way to use plurals to good effect. I actually think that using a plural in this case is better than using a singular, which is rarely the case when making general statements.

The great thing about it is that it shows how to use and spell the word "AIs" which is tricky, and leaves the singular form to be deduced by the reader, which is a trivial task, because it is just a matter of leaving off the "s" and using the familiar term "AI".

Here's a link to your edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Artificial_intelligence&diff=prev&oldid=1188698544 Polar Apposite (talk) 04:27, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

@Polar Apposite Thanks so much for that as I rarely get comments on my edits, and yours did indeed inspire mine.

Of course, as you say, brevity is crucial in the lede, especially with content straying into a WP:DICDEF.

Although I made that edit whilst in and out of sleep at 3am (meant to leave a much longer edit description of explanation), I did consider my options: by using AIs, I subtly made clear that, in that sense, the term is count (as opposed to non-count for the primary one), and, even more subtly, that the semantics of the acronym are broader (as the count sense rarely uses the expanded form), without straying into lexicography.

What I couldn't decide was whether to italicise AIs as its only borderline a mention rather than a use of the term.

Having followed the article for a while, its lede is very volatile, anyway. Llew Mawr (talk) 14:44, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

You wrote, "What I couldn't decide was whether to italicise AIs as its only borderline a mention rather than a use of the term." It had me wondering whether it should be in bold like the first mention of "AI" in the article. And then it occurred to me that it might be an idea add, in bold, something like "plural: AIs" to the first mention of "AI", and maybe even, also in bold, something like "plural: artificial intelligences" at the first mention of "artificial intelligence".

My reasoning is that these plurals are perhaps just as tricky as the plural of "fish", and as you can see in the Fish article, the plural is given in bold (I wonder why the hover does not match the article)? Chordate, to choose the first handy example I saw, follows a different format, where the plural form is indicated by being used early on. I wonder whether that was deliberate, I mean: to implicitly teach what the plural form is by *using* it? If so, perhaps a case could be made for leaving an otherwise undesirable plural in place, and not replacing it with a singular for the sake of simplicity and/or brevity.

I noticed that "AIs" is in the article, in a quote in the further reading section. Maybe that could be used as a citation for how to use "AIs", and what it means. I also found that Stack Exchange English Usage https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/406263/singular-or-plural-after-ai uses the term, and in much the same way you did, with no one protesting. Don't know if Stack Exchange is considered to be a reliable source, though. There are a large number of articles on the Internet that use the term.

TLDR alert.

You may wish to scroll past the long, detailed, and possibly boring, text about animals to the TLDR section below.

There sure isn't much consistency/standardization across the first two sentences of articles, even when one compares an article about a species with an article about another species.. Some have the plural in bold, others not. In rare cases they even anomalously and inexplicably start with a plural, even when it results in ambiguity, e.g. in the Animal article, which starts,

"Animals are multicellular, eukaryotic organisms in the biological kingdom Animalia. With few exceptions, animals consume organic material, breathe oxygen, have myocytes and are able to move, can reproduce sexually, and grow from a hollow sphere of cells, the blastula, during embryonic development."

Do you think it should be changed to be about an animal in the singular throughout? That would result in:

"An animal is a multicellular, eukaryotic organism in the biological kingdom Animalia. In nearly every case, an animal consumes organic material, breathes oxygen, has myocytes and is able to move, can reproduce sexually, and grows from a hollow sphere of cells, the blastula, during embryonic development."

Other changes are called for, I think, but I'll leave it like that, to allow comparison of like with like. I have changed as little a I could while changing it from being about animals to being about an/the animal, singular.

The first thing I would note is that visualizing or conceptualizing a plurality of animals is not as easy as picturing a single organism. Secondly, it's ambiguous regarding whether each animal has one myocyte or several, and even whether there might be fewer myocytes than animals, because, say, two out of three animals have a myocyte. Or perhaps some animals have one and others have several. And maybe some have none, and others have several. There a vast number of possibities, i.e. it is very vague. The same goes for "are able to move". Can they only move as a group? Can some of them move and others not? Can some move, but only when others are present (like how a single sperm cell fuses with an egg but it needs the presence of other sperm cells to help break down the defenses of the egg wall (or something like that, as I recall). The phrase "grow from a sphere of cells" is also vague. How many animals grow from how many spheres of cells? All animals grow from one sphere? All animals in a species grow from one sphere? One animal grows from each cell in one sphere? It's less ambiguous in the singular form. Also, note that it should say "animals...grow from hollow spheres of cells". The writer himself or herself probably got confused by the plurals he or she was using. It's totally, incontrovertibly untrue that animals (plural) grow from a hollow sphere of cells (singular). I mean generally speaking, and not thinking about MZ twins and so on.

TLDR section:

TLDR: I hope I didn't bore you. Here's a shorter example of what I mean, being a rule of thumb for writing clearly (copypasted from my user page):

[O]ne would avoid the first sentence, and write instead the second or third, depending on what precisely your intended meaning was.

1. "When men and women get married they usually produce children."

2. "When a man and a woman get married they usually produce a child."

3. "When a man and a woman get married they usually produce children." Polar Apposite (talk) 22:29, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

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STG

See also WP:BMB "Bans apply to all editing, good or bad". So, although it was a good edit, I had to revert it. And by the same policy, it was valid for you to restate it. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 19:49, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

@JMF Pretty inconsequential either way but I thought it was an odd revert. mow makes sense. Llew Mawr (talk) 22:52, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes, it was odd, which is why I felt I should explain. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 22:56, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

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