User talk:The Transhumanist/Archive 21
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(please provide a subject/headline and remember to sign your post with four tildes: ~~~~ ) dir Wikipedia:Quality control New task 02/14/2009editHere's a fill-in task similar to the capital-naming activity you just did. Please complete the following entry for all the country outlines (where "x" is each country's name), by adding the name of the currency of each country (linked).
Some of them are already completed. You can find the currency names at List of circulating currencies. Good luck. Have fun. The Transhumanist 00:17, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
Simple Find / Replace for my boteditHi there! I was wondering if you could give me a simple find / replace task for my bot to do with AWB, to allow it to complete the 20 trial edits required before it is approved. Thanks, The Helpful One 13:57, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
General Update: HighfieldseditI have just finished the capital replacing task and at the weekend I will move onto the currencies replace task. For that task do you want me to just link the currencies or put ISO codes too? On the capitals, as you said some, especially the later ones, only had 1 link to capital so I just did the 1 it had and left it for someone else to replace the other. On Singapore, the capital links have been completely removed, probably because, as a city state, it is it's own capital, but I still think it needs a link, even if it's too itself, so I'll leave them for you! As for the regex tasks you suggested, my AWB doesn't seem to be working at the moment, I'll have to fiddle around with it so I may not be able to help there! Over and out - Highfields (talk, contribs, review) 10:51, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
Will do, I'll start tomorrow! Highfields (talk, contribs, review) 20:29, 20 February 2009 (UTC) RE: Regex task 2 lineseditHi there, For this task - do I use the pages listed at User:The Transhumanist/Country outlines? The Helpful One 23:00, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
RE: A two-step search/replaceeditHi again, Pass 1 - should it be /sandbox29 instead of /Sandbox29? The Helpful One 00:14, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
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RE: List creation tasks (using AWB)editList oneeditThere's no articles on the list - am I missing something? The Helpful One 00:45, 21 February 2009 (UTC) List twoeditThere's no articles on the list either! - am I missing something? The Helpful One 00:45, 21 February 2009 (UTC) replyeditYes, I'd say we're missing something. Did you include the quotes? That would ruin the search. If not, try dropping the equals sign from the search strings, and try again. The Transhumanist 00:26, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Re: Please upgrade your AWB usage to include a bot!editSure, I'll ask Thehelpfulone about it on IRC. ...if Wikipedia ever works right. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 01:56, 21 February 2009 (UTC) Country topic coverageeditHi there, sorry that I've been absent; the real world has been interfering with my virtual life again. Reading your update, it seems like everyone has everything under control. I'd just like to offer up my vast quantities of free time. I have OS issues with AWB and Linky crashes my browser, so if you have any sticky exception type task that need a human to sit through the tedium, I'm well suited for that sort of thing. Cheers, Gimme danger (talk) 03:32, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
Demographics workeditAs a Juliancolton-talk page stalker, I have seen you around a lot, asking Julian to do some Demographics work. I looked around, and some of the bot work you are doing seems somewhat interesting. Is there any way that I could help? NuclearWarfare (Talk) 05:28, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
ReplyeditWell, can you remember the password to your bot account?!!! A macro program lets you record keystroke sequences (what you type in on your keyboard) and play them back by assigning them to a "hot key" that you press to activate the macro. Using macros, you can automate just about any repetitive task on your computer. The best macros are programmable, allowing you to use variables, input breaks (like "Y/N?"), and lots of other powerful features. The macro program I'm experienced with allows me to execute repetitive tasks across Windows (multi-window operations in which the macro switches windows to do something in each, like grab some data from one, and insert it in another). Used in combination with Linky, macro programs are exceedingly powerful - you can use them to process all the pages you've loaded into tabs, save each page, and close out each tab before moving on to the next one. Note that repetitive macros are by definition bots, and so they fall under Wikipedia's bot guidelines. But you can easily make macros that are interactive. However, note that at the bot department it was stated that we don't need bot approval to use bots on the country outlines. See Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Worldbot for details. My guess is that macro proficiency would increase your productivity by at least a factor of 3 on this and similar projects. See if you can understand AutoHotkey - I never bothered with it because Macro Express does just about everything I can think of for it to do. By the way, welcome to the team. The Transhumanist 23:08, 21 February 2009 (UTC) Your first assignment: add headings and lead sections to "Demographics of" country articleseditThis task has two parts for each page you edit:
The first thing you need to do is familiarize yourself with the CIA demographics statistics set so you can recognize the complete set when you see it. Here's the list of the country demographics articles: User:The Transhumanist/Country demographics articles. Using Linky, from that page you can load 99 of them at a time into tabs to make them easy to inspect. (Highlight an area of the screen and then right-click - select Linky from the pop-up menu and follow the instructions / select from the options provided). When you are done looking at one article, press Ctrl-W, and that tab will be closed and the contents of the next tab will be displayed almost instantly on you screen. We've already formatted many of them (like about half of them). You'll notice when you get to the ones with crappy formatting. Most of those need the new standard heading. After you've gotten good at spotting the stat set, I need you to add the standard section heading and section lead to each article that presents the stat set. You also need to make sure that the stats are included under the same heading. Some editors have divided it up into separate sections, without a heading for the stat set as a whole! You need to consolidate the various sections as subheadings under the standard heading. Set the heading level of the stat set to whatever works for each specific article. On most pages, the stat sets fits well at the end as under a level 2 heading. On other pages it needs to be a subheading of an existing over-arching demographics statistics section (the CIA isn't the only source for this kind of information after all). If the stat set has been heavily modified with material from additional sources, you should skip those, unless the alternate sources have been provided as citations. Don't worry about reformatting all the statistics. Once the heading is in place, we'll be able to automate much of the format fixing using AWB-bots, targetting just those pages that include the heading. What to doeditMissing lead sectioneditWhen you come across a "Demographics of" article that has no lead section, place this at the top of the page (after any hat notes - you know, wherever the lead paragraph should be): {{subst:User:The Transhumanist/Sandbox23|country name}}
Missing standard headingeditWhen you come across the CIA demographics statistics set that doesn't yet have the standard heading, replace its current heading with this: {{subst:User:The Transhumanist/Sandbox26}} The standard heading and section lead is in that sandbox. Make sure all the CIA stats fall under that section, adjusting the levels of any other headings used for it, accordingly. If you have any questions, please ask. Good luckeditGood luck. Have fun. The Transhumanist 23:08, 21 February 2009 (UTC) Talkbackedit You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template. NuclearWarfare (Talk) 22:14, 21 February 2009 (UTC) How goes it?editAny luck on creating the regex for the latest task? (See: User talk:Robert Skyhawk/Country Outline task list#Completing "Population of " link) The Transhumanist 04:40, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
Pass one:
Slight Problem...3 passes will be needededitWhen I did Pass 1, there's a problem with the parser functions that we overlooked. The first pass involved placing the command {{PAGENAME}} in links, however, we didn't subst: it, meaning that in the wikicode, the name of the page still appears as {{PAGENAME}}. So, the second Find & Replace won't give us anything, since the text "Topic Outlne of" doesn't actually exist in the wikicode. I can fix this, but it will involve going through each of the articles and changing {{PAGENAME}} to {{subst:PAGENAME}}, then making the pass that will remove "Topic Outline of". Sorry that neither of us caught this. By the way, instead of just removing "Topic Outline of", I should probably be removing the whole "Wikipedia:WikiProject Topic Outlines..." bit, right? Thanks, Robert Skyhawk So sue me! (You'll lose) 18:54, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Re: redirect requestedit
Are there any specific tasks that need to be done? Apparently that needs to be specified in order for the bot to be approved. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 16:13, 22 February 2009 (UTC) Before we can do the bot taskeditI've got plenty of complex bot (2-stage, substitution-based) tasks and plenty of interactive AWB tasks to assign. But I can't at the moment find any simple search/replace bot tasks (the best type to seek bot approval with - keeps things simple). So I might as well explain how to do this so that someone besides me knows in case I'm not always around. And there's no time like the present to prepare for the future. So, here it goes... This will take some extensive Google searching to see if there are any new common country-related articles that can be added as standard links. (All it usually takes to add them in is a simple regex two-line search/replace - but I digress, now back to Google...). The idea is to use Google's "domain-specific" and "title only" advanced search features to hunt for new trends on Wikipedia in country coverage. Basically, in google you type in "of x". (Where "x" is a country name). Then click on Advanced search, and configure it to "title only" and add Wikipedia's URL to the domain field. As you get up to speed with this technique, you'll probably start editing the url directly in the url field at the top of your browser, but you could skip to an advanced method and make an url list of google searches on a user page and load them with Linky (this technique speeds up multi-Google searches immensely). In the results, you'll recognize a lot of the article names on there (guess how I found the article names for the country outlines in the first place!) Look over the results, keeping an eye out for article names that are not already included in the country outlines. (Using "-subject", where "subject" is the name of a subject, you can eliminate a lot of the standard subjects already in use, to make it easier to spot new ones in your results). Then repeat for "in x", and look them over as above. If you use the beginner technique, repeat the operation for about 50 major countries (their content gets developed and expanded faster, and you are more likely to see new trends arise with them - to find major countries, see the List of countries by population). Once you think you've identified a new standard country article type, make a list that includes that article name for all of the countries of the world. This will show how extensive this article type has become, by the bluelinks that show up in the list. To make the list, you could copy User:The Transhumanist/Country demographics articles, and use WP:WikEd to change "Demographics of" to "z of". (Where "z" is the subject name, producing "rainfall of", or whatever). (If the title has "in" instead of "of", well, you know what to do). If it looks like a trend in coverage development is emerging, that is, like all countries' coverage will eventually expand to include the new article type, contact me, and I'll describe the bot task needed to add it into the country outlines. Good luck. Have fun. The Transhumanist 02:50, 23 February 2009 (UTC) RE: Ran into a problem with "English exonyms"editHey, Will you add the "country name" in afterwards? Yes I am having fun! Well Thehelpfulbot is having all the fun! ;) The Helpful One 20:54, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
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Typo Fix Complete
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Skipped by: AWB Skip reason: No Find And Replace Changes AWB: No Find And Replace Changes The Helpful One 21:27, 22 February 2009 (UTC) Re. Special AssignmenteditI've contacted our friend Rich, will let you know when he replies. Robert Skyhawk So sue me! (You'll lose) 21:46, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Name callingeditIn this edit you mention name calling, what name calling? I always try to avoid the fruitless and childish endeavor of ad hominem attacks. Chillum 23:39, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
I was referring to a disagreement as to whether the user User:American Gay should have a username block or not. I can understand how that was hard to realize without the context I knew Mr. Juliancolton had. No worries. Keep enforcing civility as it all that prevents us from turning into a pack of crazy pigs! Chillum 23:50, 22 February 2009 (UTC) WikibreakeditHello, Transhumanist, I am sorry for my wikibreak, but it looks like it may be continous, I try to stay active but it is hard. Still I will eventually help out. MadadudeMy Talk Page 23:48, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
New WikiProject BannereditIt seems to me that the project could use a new talk page header--we currently have Template:WikiProject LOBT, but the project isn't even called that anymore. So, I've made User:Robert Skyhawk/Outline of knowledge template, which you are free to edit (I may use {{inuse}} tags when I'm doing something large). I think that once we get to a certain point, with your approval I'll move it into Template space, then we can redirect the old template to the new one. We may also consider using my bot/AWB to put the template on all of the project's pages. Any thoughts? Robert Skyhawk So sue me! (You'll lose) 04:58, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm not really sure if that's my thing.editI'm more of a gnome: Tidy up what's already there, maybe add a fact or two that isn't already listed. There are only a couple of situations in which I've actually added significant information to an article. Generally my thing is cleaning up what's there and, of course, vandal repair. HalfShadow 17:59, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
"Linky" in Opera, and other comments on my talk pageeditThanks for the comments. The Linky equivalent in Opera is part of Opera's "Panel" feature, of which Firefox's AIOS extension is essentially a clone. Opera's "Panel" is divided into 16 default sections or panels (and you can add your own custom ones) of which the "Links Panel" is one. The others are not unfamiliar: "Bookmarks", "History", "Transfers", "Windows", etc. - basic browser features. So Links is treated as such. Also, not wanting to assume too much, but judging by your authored "howtos" on browser use, you seem like the type of Wikipedian to whom Opera would be well suited in general (sorry, shameless plug) - i.e. customisation for highly optimised efficient power-use. Have you tried it? Technically it doesn't have the potential for customisation that Firefox does with it's extension framework (as Opera doesn't really have one as such), but the extent of it's built in features and the extent of their customisability allow you to do so many things, some of which I'm sure noone has thought to make a Firefox extension for. On joining the OTS team, I'm not sure how much time I'd have to dedicate - joined Wikipedia a few months ago after years of dedicated use (as a reader) with the optimistic hope of becoming a massive regular contributor - hasn't quite worked out due to various things but I'm still hopeful so if I find it (time) I'll definitely have a look in. Although geography is not my forte, any plans to move on to another topic soon, or are there multiple things being worked upon? ɹəəpıɔnı 02:12, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Note on the 3-pass taskeditHi. I got your latest task, and will get started soon, but I wanted to let you know that I've found a way to eliminate the pass throwing the subst: into {{PAGENAME}}. The subst: bit must simply be enclosed with <includeonly> tags. This will work fine as long as the template itself is always substituted, and, by their nature, they always are anyway. See Help:Substitution#Includeonly. I've made the change to Sandbox08...if you'd like, I can apply it to all of the {{PAGENAME}} commands in the sandboxes with AWB (I won't use the bot...I'll check each edit myself). Thanks, Robert Skyhawk So sue me! (You'll lose) 03:48, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Demographics of CypruseditHi there. An editor asked me to stop doing one of the changes you asked me to make. Can you please see this discussion? NuclearWarfare (Talk) 05:16, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Demographics of CypruseditI do not know if your comment on Talk:Demographics of Cyprus was prompted by my reversal of NuclearWarfare's automatic changes, but the claim of WhiteMagick is beside the point for the issue in hand. Please look at the data that we have in Demographics of Cyprus#Demographic statistics (from unknown sources!) and compare them to CIA World Factook:Cyprus. Huge blocks of the data in the article are totally different, and we do not know where they come from. One thing is clear: they are not from the CIA World Factbook, so the automatic change is not appropriate in this case. Please wait until the whole issue of Cypriot demographics is settled: if you want the full flavor of the debate, go to Talk:Cyprus. --Zlerman (talk) 06:00, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Article of, Population of redlinksedit1) What is your ultimate strategy for dealing with "Area of" and "Population of" items in outlines? They all appear as red links in the drafts. 2) In preparing "my" countries for a move from draft to article space, can I use Topic outline of Russia as a good example? Or would you prefer that I use a different country outline? --Zlerman (talk) 09:37, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Country outline developmenteditThere are two issues here:
Preparing a country outline to be moved to article spaceeditCountry outlines should be moved to article space before they are completed. That way, more editors will notice them and help complete them. However, there are certain things that should be finished before moving them, and these are covered in the subsections below. Lead sectioneditThe lead section should be condensed down to a single paragraph including just enough for good solid country identification. Unfortunately, we haven't developed a standard for this yet (perhaps general location, main distinguishing characteristics, and something the country is famous for) - more thought is needed on this. It was never intended to leave the full article leads in these outlines. We simply copied and pasted the leads from the articles to provide an easy starting point for editing. Some of the leads are monstrous - these pages are supposed to be outlines, not articles or article forks. I'll get back to you on this. Though any topics in the lead that are essential to the country as a subject should be converted to outline entries and included in the body of the outline (if they are not already there). The country outlines placed in article space so far were done rather hastily in order to provide feedback (to see if the community wouldn't just want to burn these with fire, but also to generate comments, and to see how editors developed them further - for ideas on how to improve and expand the standard format), to get readers used to their presence, and to attract editors to this project. In our haste, and since, we never got around to condensing the leads. By the way, an editor, on his own initiative, condensed the lead in Topic outline of Indonesia down to the bare bare minimum. I guess he wasn't aware that outlines are still lists, and it is normal for lists to have a lead paragraph more than a single sentence long (see WP:LISTS#Lead section or paragraph). Oh well. Administrative divisionseditThe administrative divisions sections for many countries are incorrect on the drafts, and the sections are empty. These need to be corrected and filled. If there are way too many divisions to list, provide a link instead. Provide a map if you can find one (for each admin div section). Government branches sectionseditThese too start out in error for many countries. They must be corrected before the outline can be moved to article space.
Completing a country outlineeditThere is some awkward stuff in the incomplete outlines:
When encountered in article space, many editors tend to delete the awkward stuff instead of complete it. You need to be on the look out for this. One way to check for this is to compare the outline against the template:Outline country. That will show you what standard items have been removed. That aside, here's the basic order that I generally complete an outline in: Maps!editEach country outline should include:
Look for these at Wikimedia Commons. A faster way to get to what you need is to click on the atlas link in the country outline. ;) Sometimes the selection to choose from is pitiful. Do the best with what you have to work with. The best examples of map support so far are Topic outline of the Isle of Man and Topic outline of Japan. Fill-inseditAll blank entries and empty link brackets need to be filled in. Bluelink the redlinkseditGenerally, either move a page to the name of the redlink, or click on the redlink and create a redirect to the article and section where the information is. Entries that don't seem like they belong, we still keep for comparison purposes. These outlines serve as profiles, and the standard entries and the standard order they are in let you compare country profiles easily. So rather than remove "Glaciers" for countries that have none, instead add a colon and type in "none". This also helps remove ambiguity. If the glacier item is missing, the reader may not know whether it means that there are no glaciers, or if the outline just isn't complete yet. We're trying to make these outlines as unambiguous as possible. Finish the coverageeditThese outlines were created using a template that had all the links most likely to be found for most of the countries of the world. But countries are highly individualized, and there are lots of non-standard topics on Wikipedia about them. We need to find them for each country. Here are some searching tips: Be careful not to go beyond the essential topicseditThese outlines are not indexes, and they shouldn't include every article related to the country. We have alphabetical indexes and specialized lists for that. For example, in the outline of the United States, don't include the name of every municipality in the country, because there are thousands of them. That's too much data! But small countries might only have a handful of cities, towns, and villages. Sure, add them in. Use Google to search Wikipedia (yes you can use Google to search specific websites - Google is actually much more useful for searching Wikipedia than Wikipedia's own search box is.) Basically, in Google you type in "of x" (including the quotes!). (Where "x" is a country name). Then click on Advanced search, and configure it to "title only" and add Wikipedia's URL to the domain field. As you get up to speed with this technique, you'll probably start editing the url directly in the url field at the top of your browser, but you could skip to an advanced method and make an url list of google searches on a user page and load them with Linky (this technique speeds up multi-Google searches immensely). In the results, you'll recognize a lot of the article names on there (guess how I found the article names for the country outlines in the first place!) Look over the results, keeping an eye out for article names that are not already included in the country outline you are working on. (Using "-subject", where "subject" is the name of a subject, you can eliminate a lot of the standard subjects already in use, to make it easier to spot new ones in your results). Then repeat for "in x", and look them over as above. Other search terms that may be useful include the country's name (without "of" or "in"), the country's adjectival(s) (e.g. "German", "Germanic"), the country's demonym(s), etc. Check the country's categorieseditYou can usually find blatantly missing topics in Wikipedia's category system. Browse the subject's articles on WikipediaeditBy this point the outline itself is already a powerful research tool. Click on its links to find more links for the outline. For example, History of Russia is a great place to look for links for the history section. And don't forget to read the main article on the country! ImageseditImages are best saved for last, because once you've added all the links and maps to the outline, then you know how much room you need to fill with images. But it's OK to add them sooner or as you go - pictures are worth a thousand words and they liven up the page. Just keep in mind that as more links are added, so is more space which needs to be filled with images. For images, the standard size we've been using is 300px. If the image can't be seen at that size, make it bigger. Placement is usually to the right, but large images usually work best centered at the top or bottom of a section. Be creative, but make it look good. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Try to find pictures that are not already in use in the main country-related articles. You can usually find some at Commons, and in more-specific articles (like place articles, or animal type, etc.). Go a few clicks deep. ;) The best examples of image placement are Topic outline of France, Topic outline of Iceland, Topic outline of Japan, Topic outline of Taiwan, and Topic outline of Thailand. That's all I can think of for noweditI hope you find the above suggestions useful. Good luck. Have fun. The Transhumanist 19:19, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Endonyms, demonymseditPlease check my treatment of endonyms and demonyms in Draft Outlines for Tajikistan and Uzbekistan and tell me if this is how it should be done. --Zlerman (talk) 06:47, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
RE: Here's a fun one: Link lists bot taskeditHi! The task is now complete! :) The Helpful One 18:12, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Re: Search/replaces for "Demographics of" articleseditHmm, these appear to be done already. JCbot (talk) 18:44, 25 February 2009 (UTC) Re: A simple search/replace on "Demographics of" articleseditAll completed. In addition, I'd be willing to help in whatever sort of project you're participating in, when able. VX!talk 00:58, 26 February 2009 (UTC) doneedit...with the moves/deletions. Still trying to work out the problems with AWB. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 01:27, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi. A long while ago (May 2008) I became interested in the topic outline wikiproject. At the time, I decided to write a topic outline for medicine. However, I kind of decided to give up, as I didn't see much action on the project and thought my contributions would never be moved to the mainspace. The page remains where it was, and now I've noticed on the community portal that the project was recently mentioned. Though I know that the outline can still be expanded greatly, I feel that it would benefit more from the contributions of many editors if it were actually in the main article space. Is there potential for this? How can I help turn this outline into a useful tool? Thanks in advance, 4dhayman (talk) 20:32, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
If you wish to contact me personally...edit...please email me. My internet access is limited - this terminal I'm on right now doesn't support email - but I will get to one that does and will get back to you as soon as possible. Thank you. The Transhumanist 19:38, 4 March 2009 (UTC) Outline of XeditIf you are moving all of the articles entitled Topic outline of X to Outline of X, why did you bother to move many articles entitled List of X-related topics to List of X-related articles? There may be a few conflicts with other articles entitled Outline of X that are not related to the Wikipedia:WikiProject Outline of knowledge. I'm concerned that we may be seriously overreaching (but then you are a transhumanist, aren't you). --Buaidh (talk) 21:11, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Is this the final title change for a while, or are others in the works. --Buaidh (talk) 22:26, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Outline of animal scienceeditThis outline needs to be completed soon, because there is a redlink for it at the disambiguation page Outline of anatomy. Would you take a look at the subject and see what you can casually fill-in? I'd sure appreciate it. I'm kind of preoccupied with renaming outline pages. Thank you. The Transhumanist 04:53, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Outlines for countrieseditIt looks you are the Chief Outliner. A question: I see the [Category:Outlines->Outlines of countries->Lists of topics by region] branch and also Category:Lists of topics by country. Until now they were not interlinked, but overlapped/interleaved. I put the latter one into "Lists of topics by region", but I am not sure is is correct idea, since Category:Lists of topics by region looks like 100% USA. May be it be more sense to rename the current "By region" into "By region of the USA" and move it into Category:Outlines of countries. Since I guess you have some structure in mind, I am leaving the solution to you. - 7-bubёn >t 01:41, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Re: ArchiveeditI'm currently waiting for Thehelpfulone to arrive on IRC, as I have a few crucial questions regarding the bot and AWB. The thread in question was dormant for three days, so the bot archived it. I'll go add it back in. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 03:14, 5 March 2009 (UTC) Ireland naming questioneditYou are receiving this message because you have previously posted at a Ireland naming related discussion. Per Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Ireland article names#Back-up procedure, a procedure has been developed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Ireland Collaboration, and the project is now taking statements. Before creating or replying to a statement please consider the statement process, the problems and current statements. GnevinAWB (talk) 18:24, 5 March 2009 (UTC) Topic outlines and hatnoteseditI've noticed you do a lot of work on topic outlines, specifically for countries. One of things I like to do is tidy up hatnotes and "see also" sections. For me, the outlines of countries and the lists of related articles are great links to put in see also sections to avoid the massive clutter of links that result there otherwise. I've noticed you have linked topic outlines in hatnotes, but I don't think this is an appropriate place for them. Hatnotes are purely for navigation if you got to the wrong article, they should be as short and as concise as possible, outlines seem better linked in a see also section to me. So my question is if you had any problem with my interpretation of the layout? The current hatnotes and see also sections on articles like United States and United Kingdom would be my preferred layout. LonelyMarble (talk) 21:20, 6 March 2009 (UTC) Re: Move requesteditNo problem, done. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 02:09, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Category:Outlines of countries (a suggestion)editThis category does not look very reader-friendly. Please consider splitting off a subcategory with draft outlines. In this way, the category screen, showing only the article space outlines, will become uncluttered, while the drafts will be on a lower level. They will be moved "up" as they are released to article space. --Zlerman (talk) 03:09, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
OK -- glad to see the push to finish the project underway! Here's what I mean about levels : every encyclopedia article is, at some level, an outline of its subject. Not too vague, not too detailed, lots of good links. wikipedia's are already more heavily interlinked than most. On a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being a high-level abstract outline with mostly links to more detailed pages, and 10 being a detailed 'outline' of what's known about a very specific topic with mostly text and a few links to less detailed articles, most Good Articles are level 5/6 outlines with a dozen related links. The average country article, say Nigeria, is more more like a level 3 outline, with 50 links to related topics and a specific "detailed article" for each section. This project seems to aim to produce level 1/2/3 outlines. No-one has tackled a level 1 outline for an abstract field yet, which would be a useful example, so you've basically started with level 2 outlines for countries (many of which already are level 3 outlines) - it's not that easy to see the difference between an average country outline and the country page it supplements. The project has also avoided the question of how much text to include in an outline, along with the links. I can imagine a level 1 outline with a good bit of text, though one would want to pack in many good links for each paragraph. (Think of an annotated timeline at multiple scales; a level 1 timeline for the History of Man, with a level 2 for a given Age.) Most current outlines have only section headings and subheadings, no complete sentences. In contrast, most articles have a lot of text; bare lists of links are discouraged. It might be helpful to have an example outline with good explanatory text for each section; and similarly an outline for a very specific topic (picked at random from geography, something like Welland Canal) +sj + 14:50, 10 March 2009 (UTC) Cross posting?editI think you have inadvertently put on my talk page something intended for another user. Here is this bit:
--Zlerman (talk) 02:14, 9 March 2009 (UTC) He jumped in, so I included his message in my CCs of the thread. Totally intentional. It was in part due to his response that I went full speed ahead. The Transhumanist 02:24, 9 March 2009 (UTC) Easy sourceseditSorry about ignoring this project for a while. I've been dabbling through, but I haven't really focused on it well enough. I just wanted to know of a few easy sources to grab some of the material for the government outline pages. That would make going through it much easier, I bet. Thanks for your help. NuclearWarfare (Talk) 02:44, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
Re:UpdateeditThanks for the update, I personally don't think were ready to go live yet, I'm working on the currencies but I'm afraid I've been a bit slow but my mock exams are over for now so it should only take another week or two, talk to you then... Highfields (talk, contribs, review) 16:21, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the updateeditThanks for the update. I'll be able to help with some of that, but I don't think I'll have time to do the government branches until I get on a calmer schedule. In the meantime, I'll search for somebody who's familiar with government-related topics and has some time to help us. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 19:45, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
Fine. :-)editHello. You know, I really didn't see your question about how I've been, because you asked it in the summary of the message you posted a little while ago. However, I'm doing fine, thanks. And you?--Listen to your Princess, dear Wikipedians. (talk) 21:02, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
Changes in Outline "template"editIn the General section of country outlines, User:Buaidh is changing the plural form "name(s)" to singular "name". I reverted this change for Outline of Armenia and Outline of Azerbaijan, but I see that many more country outlines are involved, and we now probably have a massive inconsistency across the countries. Please decide what form should be used. --Zlerman (talk) 01:21, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
RE: Script for Renaming PageseditHi there, Please see my reply on that page! The Helpful One 18:15, 11 March 2009 (UTC) Official endonymeditDo we really need an official endonym in addition to the official English country name for English speaking nations? They should always be the same. --Buaidh (talk) 22:21, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
Do we plan to display the endonym for non-English speaking countries as the foreign language endonym (e.g. for China, 中国); or the English language translation of the foreign language endonym (e.g., Middle Kingdom); or both (e.g., 中国 (Mandarin Chinese language: Middle Kingdom)?
ReplieseditFinished! I've updated atlas again, see my page. I'm terribly sorry for taking longer than I said I would and it shouldn't happen again, so go ahead and ask me if you'd like me to make anything else for your campaign; I'd be glad to. Again, I'd like to thank you for helping Wikipedia in its weak spots. Poor connection between other articles is something I've noticed from my start of Wikipedia, and I'm extremely pleased to watch the beginning of this problem become fixed...in action! not to mention being a little part of it. As for automated editing scripts, if you know PHP (or know how to observe), you can enter it in from the URL bar and make an edit similar to ?&action=edit, actually just an extension to that. For an example, you can see User:Hersfold/StatusTemplate and hover your mouse over one of the links on the status box. I don't know if this is of any use to you but I'm just throwing it out there. As for traffic counters, if you've read the Signpost, a new one is on its way. Here's the article.-- penubag (talk) 03:45, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
Question copied from Juliancolton's pageeditI have a question for you. What exactly is the point of these articles? The titles are terrible ("outline of..."??), they're largely mirrors of the main country articles and/or "List of X topics" articles or templates, and they're basically just portals in another form. Why not just, oh I dunno, work on the portals? //roux 00:18, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Your condescension is sickening. There is obviously no point in attempting to have an adult conversation with you. //roux 01:01, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Enough, pleaseeditHi there. I have both of your pages watchlisted, so I caught this back and forth. While you both have legitimate issues you want to express, right now, it doesn't look like it will go anywhere soon, and I request that both of you please stop so that this doesn't denigrate into anything worse. NuclearWarfare (Talk) 21:30, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Some old pageseditHi. I was looking at some old pages (look like maybe a proposal) that you created. I'm trying to determine if there is any reason to keep the pages. The reason I noticed them was because they transclude the current date page (e.g. March 15) and end up showing up in the Category:Days of the year. The pages are Template:Lotd scroll, Wikipedia:Main Page alternative (TFL), and Wikipedia:Today's featured list proposal. I was going to send them to WP:MfD but I wanted to ask first. -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 00:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
RE: Geography WikiProject updateeditHi there, Well I'm not sure what we could use the images for - awards maybe, but is the Geography WikiProject active, is that what I've been helping out in? I thought this was the "Wikipedia:WikiProject Topic outline" project - not the Geography one? If it's for this WikiProject - then perhaps everyone who has been helping so hard should get a special one, customised with their name and a personal comment once the outlines are complete? The Helpful One 21:35, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Re: Awards and outlineseditHi. First of all, I think the awards look excellent. Are there copyright issues with integrating the characters from the Wikipedia logo onto the trophy, however, or did we decide it looks better that way? I'd like some information on the activities available, as I have time over the next week or so. Also, as for the topic outlines, I did some more editing, especially in the governmental area of Canada (as you requested) and the lists of earthquakes in some countries. I found Special:Allpages to be especially useful for some of this. One thing I noticed, however, is how many topic outlines are still missing their time zones. This shouldn't be too difficult to integrate, so I'll take some time to add those if they are still not completed. Do we use numbers (ie. UTC -5) or names (ie. Eastern Standard Time)? Thanks. ~AH1(TCU) 00:17, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
PictureseditFinding and placing images (maps and pictures). Pictures make these outlines look gooooood. The outlines that have the best image support so far are: Outline of Thailand, Outline of Iceland, Outline of Vatican City, Outline of Taiwan, Outline of France, and Outline of Japan. The standard size we use for pics on the right of the page is 300px. Though that doesn't always work well - whatever size you use, make it look good. And remember, give each image a caption (description). The best place to start is by picking a country you've always wanted to go to, and then go to Wikimedia Commons and see what they have on the country there. You'll find that they usually have a bigger selection of pictures to choose from than the pictures used in Wikipedia articles. It's boring to use the same pictures from the Wikipedia article on the country. Try to make the outline look different, and better. :) Remember, each picture should match the subject of the section they are in. Generally. By the way, you can get pictures of any person, place, or thing in the country. There are lots of terms other than the country's name that you can type in to the Wikimedia Commons search bar. If you get stuck, you can use the outline itself to "travel" around the country and look around to see what's on Wikipedia. MapseditAs for maps, each outline generally gets a location map at the top. Those were the easiest to place, because they had standard names that could usually be inserted automatically by the country outline creation template. I'm pretty sure all the country outlines have location maps. Then there's a general map (showing borders, roads, major cities, etc.). The geography section gets either a satellite photo of the country or a topographic map, or both. The administrative division sections get maps showing the subdivisions of the country. Most of the countries haven't had these maps placed yet. The country outlines that have at least some map support (in addition to the location map), include: India • Indonesia • Iran • Iraq • Israel • Japan • Macau • Russia • Taiwan • Thailand • Albania • Austria • France • Germany • Iceland • Ireland • Italy • Isle of Man • Romania • Russia • United Kingdom • Vatican City • Bahamas • Bermuda • British Virgin Islands • Canada • United States • Belize • Honduras • Mexico • Australia • Argentina • Bolivia • Chile • Ecuador • Falkland Islands
Fill-inseditThere are other entries besides time zones that need to be filled in. Such as:
Blue-linking via redirecteditMost links have been standardized. When they are red, rather than change the link, we either rename the destination page to correspond with the link, or if the information is in a section on a page, we click on the link and create a redirect leading to the information. This helps reduce chaos in country coverage by standardizing article names. These outlines have become the de facto guide for country article naming. But, we only change article names to a standard if the standard is the most common name. Like "Geography of x". In cases of links sets for which there is no standard (because the common names differ), like "adjectival cuisine" (country adjectivals include German, Italian, Taiwanese, etc.), we standardize by providing redirects, and include the standard links in the alphabetical lists within the outlines (such as in the culture section - adjectivals wreak havoc with comparability, as Algerian cuisine would be at the beginning of the list and Zimbabwean cuisine would be at the end). To keep cuisine in the same place we use Cuisine of x, which leads to the corresponding "adjectival cuisine" article. In the government branches sections we use the common names. Parliaments have various names, but it could be misleading to refer to a country's government bodies by non-official names. User:The Transhumanist/Lists by country is a set of lists that show the status of (almost all of) the standard links on the country outlines. These lists are very useful as task lists, for creating redirects, and for checking redlink status. Or pick a country...editOr you could pick a country, and finish its outline all the way. Zlerman prefers this approach, and I posted instructions on how to go about this on his talk page at User talk:Zlerman#Country outline development. How's that?editThere should be enough activities to choose from above to get you started. If you have any further questions, feel free to ask. The Transhumanist 01:27, 16 March 2009 (UTC) A little mix-upeditHello, I am just informing you that when you posted the comment "Geography WikiProject update - 03/15/2009" on several user's talk pages, a comment above that from User:IMatthew's talk page that I had posted ended up on several users' pages that it does not concern. It would help if you inform all the users you posted this comment to of this mistake.Dough4872 (talk) 00:47, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
re: medalseditThose look great! Kudos to Penubag. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 18:18, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! -- penubag (talk) 03:32, 17 March 2009 (UTC) Quiz time!editJust wondering, what's your score? [1] -- penubag (talk) 03:32, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
I saw you comment at User talk:Buaidh#Further coverage of geography:
It has already created see Constituent countries of the United Kingdom --PBS (talk) 19:20, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Protected areas of ...edit"Protected areas of Turkmenistan" has just been moved to "Protected areas in Turkmenistan" citing naming conventions as the reason. The change from "protected areas of ..." to "protected areas in ..." may have implications for all outlines of countries. Please consider. --Zlerman (talk) 03:20, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
The Transhumanist 00:29, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Protected areas are usually a part of a country, rather than merely being in it. They are designated areas protected by law, therefore, they are different than say rivers or mountains which happen to be in the country. Protected areas also belong to the country, strengthening the term even further. I'd go with "of" in this case, as it is more grammatically correct. The Transhumanist 00:48, 27 March 2009 (UTC) Your signatureeditHow do you configure a cool signature, such as the one you have? Thanks ahead of time... Guszy 15:25, 18 March 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guszy (talk • contribs)
Incorrect generalization in Sea Level ArticleeditI couldn't figure out where to post this - so seeing you are Mr Project Geography, I thought I would flag that: Sea_level has a section at the end on aviation Flight Levels that contains sweeping generalizations and conflicts with Flight_level I'm not qualified to fix it up - and if I comment in the "discussion" page, it will likely never get fixed - so I thought I would flag it with you and you can delgate it as appropriate. If there is a better mechanism for doing this - please let me know. Cheers - Doug. Dugo (talk) 23:47, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Nuke powereditThere're a few things I could use your help on... Of course, the government sections of the country outlines. We still need to keep picking away at these... or bulldoze through them! And the other is checking each page listed at country outlines and making sure it is listed at Portal:Contents/Outline of knowledge. I'm certain some of them haven't been added yet. By the way, please look over the outlines I created for the U.S. States, and see if anything (problems, ideas) jump out at you. Then let me know. I look forward to your reply. The Transhumanist 21:33, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
RE: AWB Bot taskeditHi there, I did this task on my main account - as there were less than 10 pages that needed the find/replace! Thanks, The Helpful One 00:39, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
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