Underneaththesun

This user rarely checks their talk page, so a response may be a long time in coming.

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New comments on older sections

Hello. For simplicity, I've moved your comment at Talk:American Free Press to a new section. The post you responded to was from 2009, and was likely to be overlooked. If you feel strongly that it belongs in the old section, please feel free to revert. Thanks. Grayfell (talk) 04:14, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Khan Shaykhun

Already discussed to death on the talk page, but if you want to restart discussion feel free. Please note the editing restriction on that article: all editors must obtain consensus on the talk page of this article before reinstating any edits that have been challenged (via reversion). If in doubt, don't make the edit. VQuakr (talk) 03:44, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

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July 2018

Please do not add or change content, as you did at Southern Poverty Law Center, without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. Doug Weller talk 09:48, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

While sources like Media Matters for America, and The Daily Caller may both have a political bias, I find no reason why they would not be reliable sources, the fact that a source may be biased does not make it unreliable, see WP:NPOVS.Underneaththesun (talk) 07:05, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

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cleanup templates

Hi, I noticed that you added some cleanup templates to Black people and Mormonism. What parts of the page do you believe are unsourced? The article is very long, and the lead summarizes the entire page. Which part of the lead would you remove? Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 17:16, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

First of all the lead section should generally be no longer than four paragraphs, see MOS:LEADELEMENTS. I think that all but the first two paragraphs of the lead should be merged into the body of the article. The purpose of the lead is to give the basics of the article in a nutshell and cultivate interest in reading on. As the lead is written now it seems unorganized, the events are out of order and there is no real conclusive statement about about the current status of the relationship between black people and the lds church.

As for the sources, the entire first three paragraphs of the civil rights section is unsourced and there are several sentences throughout the article that are unsourced as well.

While we are on the subject of the sources I think there may be a reliability issue too. Many of the sources in this article are opinion pieces about the church which can be used for information about what people think but are not always reliable for facts, see WP:NEWSORG.

And although I didn't add a template for it, there seems to be a neutrality issue too. The entire article seems to be a condemnation of the church. There is no mention of the early churches opposition to slavery, church leaders support of the civil rights movement, or the churches humanitarian efforts in Africa and throughout the world.

Let me know what you think. Underneaththesun (talk) 08:33, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

The lead is longer than four paragraphs to summarize the entire body of the article. The first three paragraphs in the civil rights section are summarizing the rest of the section--maybe an indication that it could be its own page?

Which sources specifically are you talking about? I spent a lot of time in 2017 verifying sources and replacing biased sources with more neutral and academic ones, though the page has changed since then. There is mention that Brigham Young was "initially opposed" to slavery--are there other church leaders you're thinking of that should be mentioned? There's also mention of Brown making a statement supporting civil rights--are there other historical instances of support for civil rights we should include?

There was a section on humanitarian aid, but I moved it to LDS Humanitarian Services because it seemed more relevant to that page. I do think the page is too long though, so I'll propose turning the civil rights section into its own page, with more of a summary on the Black people and Mormonism one. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 17:24, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

I think the lead can still be condensed further, as it is the lead mentions a lot of details that would be better mentioned only within the body of the article, such as topics that non lds people might not know about such as the temple ceremony, the curse of ham, the pre-existence ect. It would probably be enough to only mention key topics and events such as the early churches attitudes on slavery, the priesthood ban and the current situation and save the in depth details for the body.

Although the first three paragraphs of the civil rights section are meant to summarize the rest of the section they should still probably be sourced or rewritten, the only place that I know of that citations are not required on wikipedia is in the lead section, see WP:WHENNOTCITE.

I am still a little skeptical of some of the sources, many of the books cited appear to be self published and some of the sources appear to be quite old.

It may be worth getting help from an administrator on improving this page as well.Underneaththesun (talk) 08:28, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi, I moved the civil rights section to its own page. The lead is supposed to summarize the information in the body... I don't see a reason to leave out parts. On reading the lead section of the civil rights section (now Civil rights and Mormonism), I do agree that there were some uncited things that didn't belong--I removed most of them and added a citation needed tag. Which sources, specifically, do you have a problem with? There are a lot of them. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 21:26, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Cleanup templates on Palmer Raids

Hi, there seems to have been some confusion over the style of referencing used at Palmer Raids. You tagged it as duplicated references and incomplete references. The reference style used, however, cites the same source multiple times with a short name but different page numbers, e.g.:

Coben 217–8

Coben, 207–9

Coben, 214–5

and then defines the short names once in the bibliography:

Coben, Stanley, A. Mitchell Palmer: Politician (New York: Columbia University Press, 1963)

This is an entirely acceptible format, documented in WP:CITESHORT, so I've removed the cleanup templates. Cheers, User:GKFX^talk 14:29, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Works for me, I do think the "A. Mitchell Palmer: Politician" book citation is used excessively though. Underneaththesun (talk) 08:04, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

February 2019

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. You appear to be repeatedly reverting or undoing other editors' contributions at Alex Jones. Although this may seem necessary to protect your preferred version of a page, on Wikipedia this is known as "edit warring" and is usually seen as obstructing the normal editing process, as it often creates animosity between editors. Instead of reverting, please discuss the situation with the editor(s) involved and try to reach a consensus on the talk page.

If editors continue to revert to their preferred version they are likely to be blocked from editing Wikipedia. This isn't done to punish an editor, but to prevent the disruption caused by edit warring. In particular, editors should be aware of the three-revert rule, which says that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Edit warring on Wikipedia is not acceptable in any amount, and violating the three-revert rule is very likely to lead to a block.

(diff, diff, diff, diff) Leviv ich 02:04, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Leviv. Please be aware, regarding the page Alex Jones, I only reverted two different edits one time each, more than a day apart, and explained very clearly the reason for doing so, This cannot possibly be described as "repeatedly" undoing edits, also, the changes that I made were quite small, and I did not believe that they warranted discussion on the talk page.

Thank you,Underneaththesun (talk) 06:44, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

do NOT re-factor someone else's comments!

I will not report this for the time being, but don't do it again! 104.169.29.171 (talk) 11:38, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

It is permissible to edit another users comment if it dose not change what the person is saying, see WP:RTP and WP:TPG. Also, although you don't appear to have a Wikipedia account, please review WP:GOODFAITH and WP:CIVIL before threatening to "report" other users. Thank you. Underneaththesun (talk) 02:32, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

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