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1 September 2010

Manabu Suzuki – Page restored as an uncontroversial WP:REFUND. Article can be nominated at AFD. As Jclemens says, the DRV is moot so it is closed.--Mkativerata (talk) 05:45, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it.

Jclemens said he can't find any sources to confirm his existence, but I managed to [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]...to name but a few. Therefore I say did he really try, did he try hard enough. Donnie Park (talk) 23:57, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I most assuredly did not try at all. Nor did I write that text, for that matter. DRV is not necessary for the restoration of PROD'ed articles. Please review the steps to request undeletion on my talk page, which I assure you are a lot less hassle than a DRV. Cheers, Jclemens (talk) 00:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(ec)undelete per WP:REFUND but I think you've misunderstood. The "Can't find any sources to confirm his existence" was the comment of whoever originally proposed the article for deletion, not Jclemens. Reyk _YO! 00:05, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

JC, isn't it better to make at least some steps to check the validity of the deletion reasons, rather than not try at all? Isn't that why it takes a human admin to delete expired prods, & not a bot. DGG ( talk ) 03:15, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If you review the detailed logs of what happened, one editor tagged for V, another (Phil Bridger) found sources to meet V and added them to the article, but prod-2'ed the article because of his failure to establish notability in that process. Given that we each have a limited time to process each article, would you really have done more beyond what Phil had already done in this case?

The DRV itself is moot, because yes, I will restore the article myself as soon as he actually contacts me and asks for it. Any other admin is free to do so if they just want to close this out, too. But, as of now, the requestor not asked for it to be restored, he's asked for my PROD deletion, itself clearly within process, to be vacated. Jclemens (talk) 05:35, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it.

Justin James – Page unsalted and Justin James (baseball) moved to Justin James. No prejudice to an AfD if James does not in fact make an MLB appearance. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:50, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it.

There is a Major League Baseball pitcher with the name Justin James. Through consensus is has been deemed that Major League Baseball players are inherently notable. Ergo, this player deserves an article. Alex (talk) 19:54, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that his first match might be against the Yankees tonight. If so, I'll wait until that's the case and unsalt the article. The article was salted to prevent the recreation of a different Justin James. But if he plays MLB, there's no question about it.--Mkativerata (talk) 20:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I was just going to come here for this. He's notable as he's on the active roster, even if he never plays. I'm putting the article at Justin James (baseball) for now, but it should be moved to Justin James as soon as possible. Thank you. --Muboshgu (talk) 21:03, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Actually as I read WP:NSPORT he needs to actually appear in a game as opposed to be on the roster. Nonetheless it's a different Justin James with a genuine prospect of notability, so I've unsalted the title and moved the article into it. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:50, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it.

Carbonite (polyatomic ion) – has been overturned by the deleting admin – Spartaz ^Humbug! 14:29, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it.

This page was split from Carbonite when I turned it into a disambiguation page, and I think it had at least one cite. Carbonite is a hypothetical polyatomic ion which may not exist, but has been used as an example in areas of theoretical chemistry. It was, ignoring all rules, deleted by DragonflySixtyseven - see [6] - I had no notification, and there was neither a SD template, a PROD or an AFD discussion. The grounds for deletion was "verifiability" which is not a criteria for speedy deletion. I tried to contact Dragonflysixtyseven two days ago, but haven't received a reply. Claritas § 18:43, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(Could have sworn I left this message earlier, but...) Prove there's been theoretical discussion of it and you can have it back. And I apologize for not having responded earlier, but I'm not available on August 31. DS (talk) 23:12, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Check the GoogleScholar search: "Carbonite"&btnG=Search&as_sdt=2000&as_ylo=&as_vis=0. "Infrared spectroscopic evidence for the formation of carbonite CO 2 2− ions in CO interaction with basic oxide surfaces" obviously indicates theoretical discussion (though I can't access it) and this paper [7] also indicates that the ion may well exist. Search is complicated by geology papers using Carbonite to mean "Carbonate mineral" or something similar, and there are a few explosives related ones (check out Carbonite (explosive). Claritas § 23:21, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good enough; it's back. DS (talk) 00:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep deleted as the right outcome, but I refrain from endorsing the out-of-process deletion. Stifle (talk) 18:49, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, why was it the "right outcome" ? Claritas § 19:01, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Overturn-Verifiability is an issue for the community to decide via AfD, not an admin supervote.--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:43, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Overturn and have the proper AfD debate. Contact WP:Chemistry if you need people to chip in. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 22:26, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Overturn. Lack of verifiability is not grounds for speedy deletion, and appears inaccurate in terms of the nom's description. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 22:32, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Overturn and list at AfD. The deletion was out of process, so I think the best thing to do is treat it more or less as a contested prod. Reyk _YO! 23:57, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Request closure as Dragonflysixtyseven has undeleted the article. If anyone would like an AFD debate, feel free, but I think it's fairly likely to survive. Claritas § 08:29, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it.

Black hole naming controversies – Overturn speedy deletion and list at AFD. – Courcelles 05:24, 8 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the article above. Please do not modify it.

Out of process deletion of a well-referenced article on a real topic. Maybe it's not notable, maybe it is, but there was no debate other than a thread on WP:PHYS where people thought this was a stupid controversy, and that "black hole" isn't an offensive term. But idiots exist, and their being offended was covered in several news outlet. There are also controversies in other languages as well (such as French, where some deemed the term too close to anus for their liking). This should be speedily undeleted as this is nowhere near a speedy deletion candidate. The article was proded, then contested, then summarily deleted by User:Kwamikagami for being an "idiotic" article. If you want to delete, have a proper debate about it. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 09:47, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep speedy delete - I think this article should have been speedy deleted on the first day it was posted. I will just repeat what I just posted over at wikiproject physics talk:

The title is obviously misleading - it is not about Black Holes at all, or naming black holes. The article is just a venue to stir things up, and a cover to make disparging remarks against certain groups of people. This was hardly a real topic. The subject matter had nothing to do with the title. There was no sources supporting controversial names for black holes. And it had no connection with black holes as astronomical phenomena, Even the WikiProject Astronomy tag on the talk page was misleading. There was no connection to astronomy in this article.---- Steve Quinn (talk) 09:58, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And I will repeat my reply. "I'm fully aware of that this has nothing to do with black holes and does not fall within the scope of either WP:PHYS or WP:AST. But that has little relevance on whether the article should exist or not. Bad templates can be removed, and issues with the title can always be fixed via the standard method of page moves." Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 10:01, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I just want interested parties to know that I actually placed a speedy delete tag on this article as an attack page, it was reverted, and then User:Kwamikagami deleted this page. So, there was somewhat of a basis for this adminstrator to come along and delete the page. I don't know if this is relevant to this discussion, but I thought it neccessary to bring it up. ---- Steve Quinn (talk) 10:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Whether or not an editor placed a speedy deletion tag on the article has no bearing whatsoever on whether the administrator was right to speedily delete the article. Hut 8.5 16:10, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Undo speedy delete - I don't see anyone being attacked by this article. I see an article about people who felt attacked by a scientific term. I.m.o. there was no reason to delete the article. DVdm (talk) 10:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Endorse speedy delete. The article encourages racism. Xxanthippe (talk) 10:34, 1 September 2010 (UTC).[reply]

It does nothing like that. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 14:16, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yes it does. Xxanthippe (talk) 01:56, 2 September 2010 (UTC).[reply]

Overturn speedy deletion. I declined Steve's G10 speedy, because this was not an attack page. It did not say anything disparaging; it did not even quote any disparaging remark. It did not "encourage racism". It just described two occasions when people made a fuss because they thought (mistakenly) that a reference to the astronomical concept of a black hole was disparaging to African Americans. The article should probably sent to AfD as non-notable, but it was not speediable. JohnCD (talk) 13:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Overturn deletion nothing in the deletion policy supports the deletion of this article in this way. "Idiotic" is not one of the criteria for speedy deletion. The article was not written to disparage or threaten the subject. Other concerns, such as "obviously misleading title", "not a real topic", "encourages racism", or "no sources", even if true, should be discussed at articles for deletion. I'm personally not convinced Wikipedia should have an article on this subject, but that does not mean the article should be speedily deleted. Hut 8.5 16:10, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Overturn speedy deletion While I would vote for this to be deleted or perhaps merged into an article with more general scope, I do not think the speedy rationale applies. Take it to AfD and do this thing properly. Icalanise (talk) 17:11, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Overturn. Not covered by any valid criterion for speedy deletion. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Overturn-Doesn't meet any speedy criteria. The CSDs are narrowly construed for a reason. Admins don't get to delete any article they don't like.--Fyre2387 ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:50, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy overturn. The deleting administrator has not even attempted to nominate a valid reason for speedy deletion. None exist. --Mkativerata (talk) 22:05, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy overturn - per Mkativerata, no valid criteria given for speedy deletion. Claritas § 22:07, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy overturn and trout admin. Bring at AfD if needed. --Cyclopia ^talk 22:51, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Overturn per Hut 8.5. Nothing in policy backs the actions of the deleting admin. --Falcorian ^(talk) 01:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: If anyone has not read the article, and would like to do so - I just discovered that it is in the "cache" link on the top of the section. Clicking on that link specfically accesses this article. Further comment about the content of the article below:

There is no need to explicitly repeat antisemtic expressions to demonstrate it is an antisemtic expression. All this does is show case a lack of sensitivity. Also, in this context it is merely an opportunity to explcitly repeat a hateful expression, while exploiting Wikipedia's policies and guidelines to do so. This is the same as using the Wikipedia site as a platform to promote a single point of view. Also this same process is repeated in the next section by explicitily repeating a disparaging remark derived from a source, about black women. There is no need to explicitly repeat disparaging remarks against black women, in order to demonstrate these are disparaging remarks. Please note that the "W" word is repeated three times within one pargraph of 105 words. Just because these paragraphs are sourced and have citations, in accordance with Wikipedia guidelines, does not make the content acceptable or appropriate. Also this is far from neutral wording.

I think the goal of this article is to invite, or even inflame conflict. It does not show concern for achieving quality as an encyclopedia article. ---- Steve Quinn (talk) 01:37, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is not censored and we are not the thought police. If Bob says X, and Bob's saying of X is relevant, then we say that Bob said X, regardless of where people's sensibilities lie. The article is quite neutral in it's presentation of facts, and there's not a hint of support or endorsement of these views by the article. I have a hard time believing you are reading the same article as I am, because it's quite obvious that this is about verifiable "controversies" (of varying notability), and not a platform to invite conflict. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 03:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

- temporarily restored for discussion at Deletion Review DGG ( talk ) 03:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Overturn The deletion reason "(Idiotic. This is not a naming controversy for black holes, but rather sensitivity to the word "black" in any form" ) is completely without support in policy. Speedy deletion does not mean, that if an admin finds what he thinks is a bad article he may delete it. Additionally: The article must be considered, not just the tile -- we don't delete article for having poorly-conceived names, but rename them. It is not true that the articles only purpose is to cause conflict, and even if it did, such is not a reason for speedy--the speedy reason that comes closest is G10"Pages that disparage or threaten their subject, or some other entity, and serve no other purpose." This does not seem to do that--I cannot see that any entity is being disparaged. "Encourage racism" is not a reason for speedy either--one editor say it does, another says it does not, and the place to decide the suitability is AfD--in any case if providing NPOV information should have the side effect of encouraging racism by reporting on it, removing it on that grounds violates NOT CENSORED. DGG ( talk ) 03:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Overturn per all of the above. SNOW? Jclemens (talk) 05:38, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Overturn speedy deletion no valid reason for speedy deletion. Could be possibly challenged as not notable or maybe even OR synthesis, but the correct place for that discussion is AfD. Gandalf61 (talk) 08:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Overturn without prejudice so that a proper Afd can be carried out. JRSpriggs (talk) 08:15, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Overturn. None of the content indicates G10. Being about a race-related controversy does not make the article itself inflammatory. Notability should be assessed at AfD. --Kinu ^t/_c 16:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Endorse the outcome, but not the reasoning- I don't agree that the WP:G10 category applied in this case. That said, having had a chance to look at the article now, I just don't see any way on earth it would survive an AFD. All the article does is discuss two seperate incidents, and then try to make a case that its a larger issue, which smacks of WP:SYNTH to me. Perhaps I'm wrong and perhaps it could be salvaged as meaningful content with a merge, but honestly I'm just not seeing how. So even though I think the logic behind the outcome was wrong, I will say that I don't see any point in restoring an article that would more than likely be deleted by AFD anyway. Umbralcorax (talk) 20:39, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Overturn and WP:TROUT deleting admin. Not even vaguely a speedy and would seem to meet WP:N though it doesn't meet WP:HOBITTHINKSTHISISAREASONABLEARTICLE _{(good luck with that one)}. Hobit (talk) 00:50, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Overturn per Hobit. Also, Steve Quinn's argument is patent nonsense; he needs to read WP: NOTCENSOR right away. We have an article entirely about the N-word, so saying an article should be deleted because it "contains offensive terms" (or, as Steve Quinn put it, "the W-word"), is ludicrous and contrary to Wiki policy. Stonemason89 (talk) 22:40, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, well there are other issuse about the article that have to be dealt with, after the discussion. Being offended is obviously not a policy or guideline issue. ---- Steve Quinn (talk) 07:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Overturn This may well not survive AfD, but there is no justification for Speedy Delete as an "Attack page". The fate of this article needs to be determined by community consensus, not the policy misinterpretations of a lone admin. Alansohn (talk) 05:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it.

@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 Add a new entry BELOW THIS LINE copying the format: {{subst:drv2|page=<PAGE NAME>|xfd_page=<XFD PAGE NAME>|reason=<REASON>}} ~~~~      -->
+{| class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="width: 100%; text-align: left; border: 0px; margin-top: 0.2em;"
-====[[:Justin James (closed)]]====
+|-
-{| class="navbox collapsible collapsed" style="text-align: left; border: 0px; margin-top: 0.2em;"
+! style="background-color: #f2dfce; font-weight:normal; text-align:left;" |
+* '''[[:Manabu Suzuki]]''' – Page '''restored''' as an uncontroversial [[WP:REFUND]]. Article can be nominated at [[WP:AFD|AFD]]. As Jclemens says, the DRV is moot so it is closed.--[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 05:45, 2 September 2010 (UTC) <!--*-->
+|-
+| style="text-align:center;" | ''The following is an archived debate of the [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]] of the article above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>''
+|-
+| style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white;" |
+:{{DRV links|Manabu Suzuki|xfd_page=|article=}}
+[[user:Jclemens|Jclemens]] said he can't find any sources to confirm his existence, but I managed to [http://speedhunters.com/archive/2009/05/25/event-gt-gt-d1gp-2009-tokyo-drift-exhibition-pt2.aspx] [http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=u9YBHfWFqwUC&pg=PA1989&lpg=PA1989&dq=Manabu+Suzuki+drift&source=bl&ots=2wdGXVl52C&sig=mwMLVu5usEWMU-p86xuO4flokLk&hl=en&ei=N7R-TJ6HBNTP4gan3ei7Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CDEQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Manabu%20Suzuki%20drift&f=false] [http://www.d1underground.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66:d1gp-usa-introduces-pro-1-advanced-computerized-scoring-to-professional-drifting&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=50] [http://www.formulad.com/general-info/formula-drift-history.html] [http://www.teamyokomo.com/japan/0701/index_0701_en.htm]...to name but a few. Therefore I say did he really try, did he try hard enough. [[User:Donnie Park|Donnie Park]] ([[User talk:Donnie Park|talk]]) 23:57, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
+:I most assuredly did not try at all.  Nor did I write that text, for that matter.  DRV is not necessary for the restoration of PROD'ed articles.  Please review the steps to request undeletion on my talk page, which I assure you are a lot less hassle than a DRV.  Cheers, [[User:Jclemens|Jclemens]] ([[User talk:Jclemens|talk]]) 00:01, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
+*(ec)'''undelete''' per [[WP:REFUND]] but I think you've misunderstood. The "Can't find any sources to confirm his existence" was the comment of whoever originally [[WP:PROD|proposed]] the article for deletion, not Jclemens. [[User:Reyk|<span style="color:maroon;">'''Reyk'''</span>]] [[User talk:Reyk|'''<sub style="color:blue;">YO!</sub>''']] 00:05, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
+::JC, isn't it better to make at least some steps to check the validity of the deletion reasons, rather than not try at all?  Isn't that why it takes a human admin to delete expired prods, & not a bot. '''[[User:DGG| DGG]]''' ([[User talk:DGG| talk ]]) 03:15, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
+:::If you review the detailed logs of what happened, one editor tagged for V, another (Phil Bridger) found sources to meet V and added them to the article, but prod-2'ed the article because of his failure to establish notability in that process.  Given that we each have a limited time to process each article, would you really have done more beyond what Phil had already done in this case?
+:::The DRV itself is moot, because yes, I will restore the article myself as soon as he actually contacts me and asks for it.  Any other admin is free to do so if they just want to close this out, too. But, as of now, the requestor not asked for it to be restored, he's asked for my PROD deletion, itself clearly within process, to be vacated. [[User:Jclemens|Jclemens]] ([[User talk:Jclemens|talk]]) 05:35, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
+|-
+| style="text-align:center;" | ''The above is an archive of the [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]] of the page listed in the heading. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>''
+|}
+{| class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="width: 100%; text-align: left; border: 0px; margin-top: 0.2em;"
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-====[[:Carbonite (polyatomic ion)]]====
+|-
+! style="background-color: #f2dfce; font-weight:normal; text-align:left;" |
+* '''[[:Carbonite (polyatomic ion)]]''' – has been overturned by the deleting admin – [[User:Spartaz|Spartaz]] <sup>''[[User talk:Spartaz|Humbug!]]''</sup> 14:29, 2 September 2010 (UTC) <!--*-->
+|-
+| style="text-align:center;" | ''The following is an archived debate of the [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]] of the article above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>''
+|-
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 :{{DRV links|Carbonite (polyatomic ion)|xfd_page=|article=}}
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 *(Could have sworn I left this message earlier, but...) Prove there's been theoretical discussion of it and you can have it back. And I apologize for not having responded earlier, but I'm not available on August 31. [[User:DragonflySixtyseven|DS]] ([[User talk:DragonflySixtyseven|talk]]) 23:12, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 **Check the GoogleScholar search: [http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&q="Carbonite"&btnG=Search&as_sdt=2000&as_ylo=&as_vis=0]. "Infrared spectroscopic evidence for the formation of carbonite CO 2 2− ions in CO interaction with basic oxide surfaces" obviously indicates theoretical discussion (though I can't access it) and this paper [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WHJ-4N6FP03-1&_user=10&_coverDate=04/25/2007&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1447979917&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=0428c8cd99566fff1f229b6b1daa8f3a&searchtype=a] also indicates that the ion may well exist. Search is complicated by geology papers using Carbonite to mean "Carbonate mineral" or something similar, and there are a few explosives related ones (check out [[Carbonite (explosive)]]. [[User:Claritas|Claritas]] [[User talk:Claritas|§]]  23:21, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
+::::Good enough; it's back. [[User:DragonflySixtyseven|DS]] ([[User talk:DragonflySixtyseven|talk]]) 00:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 *'''Keep deleted''' as the right outcome, but I refrain from endorsing the out-of-process deletion. [[User:Stifle|Stifle]] ([[User talk:Stifle|talk]]) 18:49, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 ::Sorry, why was it the "right outcome" ? [[User:Claritas|Claritas]] [[User talk:Claritas|§]]  19:01, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 35: / Line 62: @@
 *'''Overturn''' and have the proper AfD debate. Contact [[WP:Chemistry]] if you need people to chip in. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">[[User:Headbomb|Headbomb]] {[[User talk:Headbomb|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/Headbomb|contribs]] / [[WP:PHYS|physics]] / [[WP:WBOOKS|books]]}</span> 22:26, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 *'''Overturn'''. Lack of verifiability is not grounds for speedy deletion, and appears inaccurate in terms of the nom's description. [[User:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz|Hullaballoo Wolfowitz]] ([[User talk:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz|talk]]) 22:32, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
-*'''Overturn''' and list at AfD. The deletion was out of process, so I think the best thing to do is treat it more or less as a contested prod. [[User:Reyk|<font color="Maroon">'''Reyk'''</font>]] <sub>[[User talk:Reyk|'''<font color="Blue">YO!</font>''']]</sub> 23:57, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
+*'''Overturn''' and list at AfD. The deletion was out of process, so I think the best thing to do is treat it more or less as a contested prod. [[User:Reyk|<span style="color:maroon;">'''Reyk'''</span>]] [[User talk:Reyk|'''<sub style="color:blue;">YO!</sub>''']] 23:57, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
+*'''Request closure''' as Dragonflysixtyseven has undeleted the article. If anyone would like an AFD debate, feel free, but I think it's fairly likely to survive. [[User:Claritas|Claritas]] [[User talk:Claritas|§]]  08:29, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
+|-
-====[[:Black hole naming controversies]]====
+| style="text-align:center;" | ''The above is an archive of the [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]] of the page listed in the heading. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>''
+|}
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+* '''[[:Black hole naming controversies]]''' – Overturn speedy deletion and list at AFD. – [[User:Courcelles|Courcelles]] 05:24, 8 September 2010 (UTC) <!--*-->
+|-
+| style="text-align:center;" | ''The following is an archived debate of the [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]] of the article above. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>''
+|-
+| style="border: solid 1px silver; padding: 8px; background-color: white;" |
 :{{DRV links|Black hole naming controversies|xfd_page=no discussion has taken place, and it does not fall in any of the CSDs|article=}}
@@ Line 48: / Line 87: @@
 :::Comment - I just want interested parties to know that I actually placed a speedy delete tag on this article as an attack page, it was reverted, and then [[User:Kwamikagami]] deleted this page. So, there was somewhat of a basis for this adminstrator to come along and delete the page. I don't know if this is relevant to this discussion, but I thought it neccessary to bring it up. ---- [[User:Steve Quinn|Steve Quinn]] ([[User talk:Steve Quinn|talk]]) 10:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
-::::Whether or not an editor placed a speedy deletion tag on the article has no bearing whatsoever on whether the administrator was right to speedily delete the article. '''''<font color="#FF0000">[[User:Hut 8.5|Hut 8.5]]</font>''''' 16:10, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
+::::Whether or not an editor placed a speedy deletion tag on the article has no bearing whatsoever on whether the administrator was right to speedily delete the article. ''[[User:Hut 8.5|<b style="color:#FF0000;">Hut 8.5</b>]]'' 16:10, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 *'''Undo speedy delete''' - I don't see anyone being attacked '''''by''' this article''. I see an ''article '''about''' people who felt attacked'' by a scientific term. I.m.o. there was no reason to delete the article. [[User:DVdm|DVdm]] ([[User talk:DVdm|talk]]) 10:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 *'''Endorse speedy delete'''. The article encourages racism. [[User:Xxanthippe|Xxanthippe]] ([[User talk:Xxanthippe|talk]]) 10:34, 1 September 2010 (UTC).
 :It does nothing like that. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">[[User:Headbomb|Headbomb]] {[[User talk:Headbomb|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/Headbomb|contribs]] / [[WP:PHYS|physics]] / [[WP:WBOOKS|books]]}</span> 14:16, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
+::Oh yes it does. [[User:Xxanthippe|Xxanthippe]] ([[User talk:Xxanthippe|talk]]) 01:56, 2 September 2010 (UTC).
 *'''Overturn speedy deletion.''' I declined Steve's G10 speedy, because this was not an attack page. It did not say anything disparaging; it did not even quote any disparaging remark. It did not "encourage racism". It just described two occasions when people made a fuss because they thought (mistakenly) that a reference to the astronomical concept of a black hole was disparaging to African Americans. The article should probably sent to AfD as non-notable, but it was not speediable. [[User:JohnCD|JohnCD]] ([[User talk:JohnCD|talk]]) 13:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
-*'''Overturn deletion''' nothing in the [[WP:DEL|deletion policy]] supports the deletion of this article in this way. "Idiotic" is not one of the [[WP:CSD|criteria for speedy deletion]]. The article was not written to disparage or threaten the subject. Other concerns, such as "obviously misleading title", "not a real topic", "encourages racism", or "no sources", even if true, should be discussed at [[WP:AFD|articles for deletion]]. I'm personally not convinced Wikipedia should have an article on this subject, but that does not mean the article should be speedily deleted. '''''<font color="#FF0000">[[User:Hut 8.5|Hut 8.5]]</font>''''' 16:10, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
+*'''Overturn deletion''' nothing in the [[WP:DEL|deletion policy]] supports the deletion of this article in this way. "Idiotic" is not one of the [[WP:CSD|criteria for speedy deletion]]. The article was not written to disparage or threaten the subject. Other concerns, such as "obviously misleading title", "not a real topic", "encourages racism", or "no sources", even if true, should be discussed at [[WP:AFD|articles for deletion]]. I'm personally not convinced Wikipedia should have an article on this subject, but that does not mean the article should be speedily deleted. ''[[User:Hut 8.5|<b style="color:#FF0000;">Hut 8.5</b>]]'' 16:10, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 *'''Overturn speedy deletion''' While I would vote for this to be deleted or perhaps merged into an article with more general scope, I do not think the speedy rationale applies. Take it to AfD and do this thing properly. [[User:Icalanise|Icalanise]] ([[User talk:Icalanise|talk]]) 17:11, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 *'''Overturn'''. Not covered by any valid criterion for speedy deletion. [[User:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz|Hullaballoo Wolfowitz]] ([[User talk:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz|talk]]) 17:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
@@ Line 60: / Line 100: @@
 *'''Speedy overturn'''. The deleting administrator has not even attempted to nominate a valid reason for speedy deletion. None exist. --[[User:Mkativerata|Mkativerata]] ([[User talk:Mkativerata|talk]]) 22:05, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 *'''Speedy overturn''' - per Mkativerata, no valid criteria given for speedy deletion. [[User:Claritas|Claritas]] [[User talk:Claritas|§]]  22:07, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
-*'''Speedy overturn''' and '''trout admin'''. Bring at AfD if needed. --[[User:Cyclopia|<font color="green">Cycl</font><big>o</big><font color="green">pia</font>]][[User talk:Cyclopia|<font color="red"><sup>talk</sup></font>]] 22:51, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
+*'''Speedy overturn''' and '''trout admin'''. Bring at AfD if needed. --[[User:Cyclopia|<span style="color:green;">Cycl</span><big>o</big><span style="color:green;">pia</span>]][[User talk:Cyclopia|<span style="color:red;"><sup>talk</sup></span>]] 22:51, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
+*'''Overturn''' per Hut 8.5. Nothing in policy backs the actions of the deleting admin. --[[User:Falcorian|Falcorian]]&nbsp;<sup><small>[[User_talk:Falcorian|(talk)]]</small></sup> 01:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
+*'''Comment:''' If anyone has not read the article, and would like to do so - I just discovered that it is in the "cache" link on the top of the section. Clicking on that link specfically accesses this article. Further comment about the content of the article below:
+:There is no need to explicitly repeat antisemtic expressions to demonstrate it is an antisemtic expression. All this does is show case a lack of sensitivity. Also, in this context it is merely an opportunity to explcitly repeat a hateful expression, while exploiting Wikipedia's policies and guidelines to do so. This is the same as using the Wikipedia site as a platform to promote a single point of view. Also this same process is repeated in the next section by explicitily repeating a disparaging remark derived from a source,  about black women. There is no need to explicitly repeat disparaging remarks against black women, in order to demonstrate these are disparaging remarks.  Please note that the "W" word is repeated three times within one pargraph of 105 words. Just because these paragraphs are sourced and have citations, in accordance with Wikipedia guidelines, does not make the content acceptable or appropriate. Also this is far from neutral wording.
+:I think the goal of this article is to invite, or even inflame conflict. It does not show concern for achieving quality  as an encyclopedia article.  ---- [[User:Steve Quinn|Steve Quinn]] ([[User talk:Steve Quinn|talk]]) 01:37, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
+::[[WP:CENSORED|Wikipedia is not censored]] and we are not the thought police. If Bob says X, and Bob's saying of X is relevant, then we say that Bob said X, regardless of where people's sensibilities lie. The article is quite neutral in it's presentation of facts, and there's not a hint of support or endorsement of these views by the article. I have a hard time believing you are reading the same article as I am, because it's quite obvious that this is about verifiable "controversies" (of varying notability), and not a platform to invite conflict. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">[[User:Headbomb|Headbomb]] {[[User talk:Headbomb|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/Headbomb|contribs]] / [[WP:PHYS|physics]] / [[WP:WBOOKS|books]]}</span> 03:09, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
+** ''temporarily restored for discussion at Deletion Review ''   '''[[User:DGG| DGG]]''' ([[User talk:DGG| talk ]]) 03:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
+*'''Overturn''' The deletion reason "(Idiotic. This is not a naming controversy for black holes, but rather sensitivity to the word "black" in any form"   ) is  completely without support in policy. Speedy deletion does not mean, that if an admin finds what he thinks is a bad article he may delete it. Additionally: The article must be considered, not just the tile -- we don't delete article for having poorly-conceived names, but rename them. It is not true that the articles only purpose is to cause conflict, and even if it did, such is not a reason for speedy--the speedy reason that comes closest is G10"Pages that disparage or threaten their subject, or some other entity, and serve no other purpose."  This does not seem to do that--I cannot see that any   entity is being disparaged.  "Encourage racism" is not a reason for speedy either--one editor say it does, another says it does not, and the place to decide the suitability is AfD--in any case if providing NPOV information should have the side effect of encouraging racism by reporting on it, removing it on that grounds violates NOT CENSORED.    '''[[User:DGG| DGG]]''' ([[User talk:DGG| talk ]]) 03:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
+*'''Overturn''' per all of the above. SNOW? [[User:Jclemens|Jclemens]] ([[User talk:Jclemens|talk]]) 05:38, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
+*'''Overturn speedy deletion''' no valid reason for speedy deletion. Could be possibly challenged as not notable or maybe even OR synthesis, but the correct place for that discussion is AfD. [[User:Gandalf61|Gandalf61]] ([[User talk:Gandalf61|talk]]) 08:03, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
+*'''Overturn without prejudice''' so that a proper Afd can be carried out. [[User:JRSpriggs|JRSpriggs]] ([[User talk:JRSpriggs|talk]]) 08:15, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
+*'''Overturn'''. None of the content indicates [[WP:CSD#G10|G10]]. Being ''about'' a race-related controversy does not make the article itself inflammatory. Notability should be assessed at AfD. --<span style="font-family:Book Antiqua;">[[User:Kinu|<strong style="color:blue;">Kinu</strong>]] [[User_talk:Kinu|<sup style="color:red;">''t''</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Kinu|<sub style="color:red;">''c''</sub>]]</span> 16:57, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
+*'''Endorse the outcome, but not the reasoning'''- I don't agree that the [[WP:G10]] category applied in this case. That said, having had a chance to look at the article now, I just don't see any way on earth it would survive an AFD. All the article does is discuss two seperate incidents, and then try to make a case that its a larger issue, which smacks of [[WP:SYNTH]] to me. Perhaps I'm wrong and perhaps it could be salvaged as meaningful content with a merge, but honestly I'm just not seeing how. So even though I think the logic behind the outcome was wrong, I will say that I don't see any point in restoring an article that would more than likely be deleted by AFD anyway. [[User:Umbralcorax|Umbralcorax]] ([[User talk:Umbralcorax|talk]]) 20:39, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
+*'''Overturn''' and [[WP:TROUT]] deleting admin.  Not even vaguely a speedy and would seem to meet WP:N though it doesn't meet [[WP:HOBITTHINKSTHISISAREASONABLEARTICLE]] <sub>(good luck with that one)</sub>. [[User:Hobit|Hobit]] ([[User talk:Hobit|talk]]) 00:50, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
+*'''Overturn''' per Hobit. Also, Steve Quinn's argument is patent nonsense; he needs to read [[WP: NOTCENSOR]] right away. We have an article entirely about [[Nigger (word)|the N-word]], so saying an article should be deleted because it "contains offensive terms" (or, as Steve Quinn put it, "the W-word"), is ludicrous and contrary to Wiki policy. [[User:Stonemason89|Stonemason89]] ([[User talk:Stonemason89|talk]]) 22:40, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
+:Yeah, well there are other issuse about the article that have to be dealt with, after the discussion. Being offended is obviously not a policy or guideline issue. ---- [[User:Steve Quinn|Steve Quinn]] ([[User talk:Steve Quinn|talk]]) 07:54, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
+*'''Overturn''' This may well not survive AfD, but there is no justification for Speedy Delete as an "Attack page". The fate of this article needs to be determined by community consensus, not the policy misinterpretations of a lone admin. [[User:Alansohn|Alansohn]] ([[User talk:Alansohn|talk]]) 05:27, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
+|-
+| style="text-align:center;" | ''The above is an archive of the [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]] of the page listed in the heading. <span style="color:red;">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>''
+|}