Talk:Ćevapi

Being objective and providing historic evidence is a must!

Due to the major politicization of the issue with the food and the issues of nationalistic sort I'll kindly ask the editors to refrain from using speculative material. With that being said I'd like to point some things for people to consider before jumping into the conclusions of being the ultimate creators of the Ćevap. The discussion is open for everyone who want to shed some light on the topic itself.

First of all, the Ottoman Empire expanded into the Serbian land during the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries, and only then they followed in the regions of Bosnia. That being said, there's literally zero chance that the Ottoman culture came to Bosnia first. I'm sorry fellow Bosnian people, but you're not the first to adopt Turkish cuisine nor their culture in general since it doesn't make sense chronologically and geographically.

The Ottoman empire needed more than two hundred years to take down the Serbian capitol Belgrade and then move towards the western lands. Let's remind, the battle of Kosovo was in 1389. Turkish sultan died that time. The next attack was not before 1440. year. Then 1456. year. It failed. Then there was the attack during the 1521. year by the Ottoman forces which finally made the Serbian capitol theirs. That's more than a century of Turkish stagnation military-wise. There was a Great Serbian Empire which crumbled under the rule of Stefan Uroš V back in 14th century.

By the time the Ottoman empire was at the Bosnia's doorstep, Serbia already took a lot of the Turkish culture and adopted Turkism in general in the daily colloquial linguistic use.

Aside from that fact, the Serbian Hajduks were the ones who started the entire Ćevap trend which only later got widespread in the Balkans.

Let's remember, the Turks have no equivalent food to that of Ćevap either. 

It is nonexistent meaning that Ćevap is quite possibly a genuine Balkan food which wouldn't be a surprise given the existence of Pljeskavica food. They most likely simply saw how it's made and gave it a completely generic name which is exactly what they did with Sarma. Yet, the Turks don't use Sour Cabbage to make Sarma either and while at it the phrase "Sarma" means nothing to the Turks since it doesn't define the food itself. The rough translation is "Stuffed" and the rough translation for the Kebab is "Grilled" (-fried- to be more precise).

Given how there're many turkish words in the Serbian language, it's rather strange that words Ćevap and Kebab differentiate greatly in terms of the pronunciation, shape, form, method of preparation and so on. Aside from a very slight word association the Ćevap shares absolutely nothing in common with the Kebab. On top of that there doesn't exist anything similar to Pljeskavica in the turkish cuisine and yet Pljeskavica and Ćevapi are not all that different on the terms of preparation. 

Aside from that, the earliest known data for the Ćevapi being made officially comes from the Leskovac region, under the banner of Leskovački roštilj (Leskovac Grill Festival) to be more precise. The lack of the historic evidence before that period is due to the Ottoman rule and no valid administration which would provide the much needed historic evidence in order to accord this dispute. With that being said, the diminutive form called "Ćevapčići" is nothing more than a derogatory term used by the Bosnian Ćevap makers in order to belittle the influence of the Serbian cuisine despite it's clear historic data and evidence on the terms of Hajduks and the famous Hajdučki ćevap. It's a rather ugly habit that somehow got stuck among the people. If anything, Serbian Ćevapi are actually bigger than the ones served in Bosnia (not including the Republika Srpska or rather - Banjalučki ćevap which is again made by the pro-Serbian populace).

As for me, I'll be willing to discuss this with fellow food enthusiasts and people who genially like Ćevapi. I urge you to keep things on a professional level and without much heated debates that serve no purpose nor provide anything in a constructive manner. Nenaraz (talk) 07:06, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

There is an actual academic research on the topic, but by posting it here it would spark a brawl... Pixius talk 00:26, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Cevapi is not an Ottoman food brought to Serbia. It is an old Croatian/Illyrian food for roamers, like for those who go mountaineering or cut trees for ships. It became famous during the Ottoman occupation of Croatian Bosnia and Islamization. It was used by the Austrian supported rebellious Hajduks across the occupied territory and got famous inside the Ottoman Empire. That included also Serbia. So it is not from the Middle East. Cevapi is only a Croatian word for the Ottoman Turkish description of that meal as "kebap", which has nothing to do with what we understand of kebap today. From there the term cevapi went into other South Slavic languages, like into Serbian. Later, in the Austrian Empire, cevapi were more common in Serbia, because they were served as a stationary dish. But eventually were mass and industrially produced in the Austrian Empire also for its soldiers and Bosnians, who ate them as fast food. After forceful dissolution of Austria, the cevapi spread from Belgrade steadily across the SHS state, because fewer people could cook slowly anymore and were up for fast grilling. But it remained unimportant across the Adriatic, basically whole Croatia, the Croatian part of Montenegro like Kotor, or in Slovenia. Only around the 1960 it became popular there, because people were less imprisoned and used it as a take away food. Over the Croatian diaspora, it then was also made known in Italy and Germany as a "Yugoslav dish" similar to a bulette.--Hmmcevapi (talk) 21:49, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

@Hmmcevapi

Please, if you have reliable, non tabloid sources, predating any Croatian nationalism, feel free to post it here.

I will not respond to the above written nonsense Pixius talk 17:17, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Somebody reverts it with no comment

I got a message, that my corrections were reverted without any explaination or further correction, so I guess it is just trolling. My corrections round up the article, which is currently in a bad shape with very selective information, mostly from Serbia lacking a lot of important details. Please help bring the article to light.--Hmmcevapi (talk) 21:20, 1 August 2023 (UTC)