Talk:2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses

Request to include OSU Undergraduate Student Government scandal in Controversies/Administrative Response section

I request we add this to the 'Controversies/Administrative Response' section of this article:

On March 25, 2024, Ohio State University's Undergraduate Student Government (USG) proposed an initiative urging OSU to divest from companies profiting from human rights violations. The initiative received 1247 signatures, surpassing the required 1000. However, USG's Judicial Panel nullified it, citing invalid signatures allegedly due to petition dissemination on Instagram. OSU Students for Justice in Palestine claimed unfair targeting, alleging other candidates used similar methods without penalty. Leaked emails revealed pressure from Hillel International to veto the initiative, prompting accusations of "abuse of power" and leading to resignations of three USG justices.

 Note: This section and edit request was created by Onlineone22 via multiple different edits. Originating edit was [1]. —Sirdog (talk) 23:20, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Request has remained unactioned for quite some time and requestor is a sockpuppet. Closing out for queue management purposes. —Sirdog (talk) 23:20, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Request to add sniper photograph to 'Police response' section

I request this photograph is added as a reference for the "long-ranged firearms" part of the 'police response' section in the article. This is a photograph of the sniper at The Ohio State University mentioned in the article.

File:OSU Gaza Solidarity Encampment Sniper.png

Officer on the Ohio Union aiming sniper at protesters at the Ohio State University Gaza Solidarity Encampment on April 25, 2024.

2024_pro-Palestinian_protests_on_university_campuses#Violence — Preceding unsigned comment added by Onlineone22 (talk • contribs) 02:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

a reference? or do you mean used as a photo in the article? User:Sawerchessread (talk) 02:57, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

I would primarily like to use this photo in the article.

As a secondary addition, we could theoretically link the photo in the form of a citation (such that clicking would redirect you to this photo's location in the article) right after the sentence:

"According to student newspaper The Lantern, state troopers with 'long-range firearms' were deployed at Ohio State University."

But I'm not too hellbent on making sure the link is added since those are pretty difficult to implement in my experience.

Onlineone22 (talk) 03:07, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

I personally think that this photograph seems relevant to add to the context of this article, but what is the source for it? It needs to be reliable. David A (talk) 03:32, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

I personally took this photograph at the event. I can send an email releasing copyright perms to [email protected] if you believe this is necessary.

Onlineone22 (talk) 03:42, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

I just sent the copyright email to VRT!

Onlineone22 (talk) 03:55, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Added. Kire1975 (talk) 03:59, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Onlineone22 (talk) 04:04, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Requesting assistance editing Ohio State University protest article.

I recently created a related article detailing the college protests at Ohio State University. After this article was made extended-protected, I lost my ability to edit the article because I do not have EP permissions. Substantial details are missing from this article, so until I regain my permissions, I have been adding suggestions to the talk page of this article. But no one has been implementing my suggestions on the talk page, despite the fact they are supported by multiple sources and add significant missing details from the article.

If members of this community could please visit the talk page of this article and implement my requested changes, this would be deeply appreciated. Thank you!

Onlineone22 (talk) 17:14, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Intro is not correct

The protests did not start with mass arrests at Columbia. It started on October 7 in support of Hamas (with chants like “resistance is justified when people are occupied”). Encampments on college campuses started at Columbia in response to a congressional hearing to address antisemitism on college campuses in the wake of the October 7 massacre (several months after the massacre). The intro is incorrect and very misleading. 153.176.57.145 (talk) 11:07, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Where does it say that the protests started at Columbia University? The lede says they escalated there. In the body it mentions other protests and occupations. Collegemeltdown2 (talk) 20:30, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

It is misleading to leave out that the Columbia protest (in which initial arrests were made) was in response to a congressional hearing on antisemitism about earlier large protests in support of the October 7 massacre at Columbia and elsewhere. It is not even clear that protests were larger after the congressional hearing, just that encampments started to be erected. To start the article implying that substantial protests only really started after “arrested made at Columbia” is not correct. It also leaves out what shocked most people and the viral congregational hearing, the large support for the October 7 massacre. While their were many students who protested Israel’s military campaign (particularly after the congressional hearing), there was also a large portion protesting in support of Hamas, and that should be mentioned. I can include numerous news paper articles from right after October 7 to show the college protests were large then. 71.179.129.209 (talk) 05:44, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Sources? EvergreenFir (talk) 05:49, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/12/nyregion/columbia-university-israel-hamas-protests.html

https://www.thenation.com/article/activism/columbia-university-palestine-sjp-protest/tnamp/

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/04/us/us-students-impacted-by-israel-hamas-war

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/dueling-rallies-face-off-in-washington-square-park-in-support-of-israelis-palestinians/4777333/?amp=1

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cornell-professor-leave-remarks-about-exhilarating-hamas-attack-history-incendiary-rhetoric.amp

I can also include sources to the congressional hearing, which directly cite protests and antisemitic incidents. 71.179.129.209 (talk) 06:04, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

"More than 3,100 pro-Palestinian protesters arrested in spring — but many charges dropped: report"

This looks like an important follow-up on the protests. Is the College Fix reputable or do we need another source? [2]https://www.thecollegefix.com/more-than-3100-pro-palestinian-student-protesters-arrested-in-spring-but-many-charges-dropped-report/ Collegemeltdown2 (talk) 20:32, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

We need a more reliable source. I recently saw 3,000 referenced by RS but didn't get round to updating the article. CNC (talk) 20:39, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

 Done Not sure how you were trying to cite NYT with this edit [3], but have now added per this edit.[4] CNC (talk) 20:49, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Request to change Intro to including congressional hearing

The intro should include that the protest at Columbia (which lead to initial arrests) was in response to a congressional antisemitism hearing. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/21/nyregion/columbia-protests-antisemitism.html 71.179.129.209 (talk) 11:23, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

The lead is very long and the page does not mention in the body that the protests was in response to the congressional antisemitism. Per MOS:INTRO: The lead section should briefly summarize the most important points covered in an article in such a way that it can stand on its own as a concise version of the article. The article itself is not in the body and it doesn't even say that either. It draws a correlation between the hearing and alleged antisemitism, but it doesn't make a connection. Kire1975 (talk) 12:18, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

I think this sentence is the most problematic: “The escalation began after mass arrests at the Columbia University campus occupation, led by anti-Zionist groups, in which protesters demanded the university's disinvestment from Israel over its alleged genocide of Palestinians.” The source (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/who-are-some-people-groups-involved-us-college-protests-2024-04-28/) said student groups praised “Palestinian armed resistance” and mentions the congressional hearing. Nowhere in the source does it say the protests were in response to divestment or allegations of genocide. An article about recent college protests over the Israel-Hamas war should at least have some mention of support for Hamas (“Palestinian armed resistance”) at these protests and the congressional hearing. 71.179.129.209 (talk) 15:51, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

That’s one source that talks about CUAD more in general, ever since the start of the war.

The other source isn’t used. Also, please use WP:EDITREQUEST and the template there, as it makes it easier to answer these. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 21:31, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

I apologize, I am new to the Wikipedia editing process. I came across this Wikipedia article that seems to have glaring omissions. It mentions arrests without mentioning the congressional hearing or alleged support for Hamas. It does not even mention the October 7 massacre that initiated the protests in 2023. These omissions appear to paint the protests in a more positive light rather than being objective. I do not have a specific request, just that additional pertinent details be added (such as the congressional hearing, alleged support for “Palestinian armed resistance”/Hamas by some at these protests, etc.). 71.179.129.209 (talk) 01:09, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

So many citations in the lead

As of today, there are seventy (70) citations in the WP:LEAD of this page. Twenty-six of these articles are not even mentioned in the body.

Per WP:CITELEAD, Because the lead usually repeats information that is in the body, editors should balance the desire to avoid redundant citations in the lead with the desire to aid readers in locating sources for challengeable material. Although the presence of citations in the lead is neither required in every article nor prohibited in any article, there is no exception to citation requirements specific to leads. The necessity for citations in a lead should be determined on a case-by-case basis by editorial consensus.

While this is certainly a "Complex, current, [and] controversial subject", can we clean this up a bit and make it an accessible overview as required by MOS:INTRO instead of the mess that it is? Kire1975 (talk) 12:34, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

the section also states “ The verifiability policy states that all quotations, and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports it.”

I think since this entire topic is inherently contentious, it may be better to leave inline citations in and just work on shortening the lede more. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 21:32, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

How to confirm that all 70 are likely to be challenged? The primary complaint is that 26 are in the lead but not in the body. Kire1975 (talk) 01:45, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Request to include congressional hearing

Please change “The escalation began after mass arrests at the Columbia University campus occupation, led by anti-Zionist groups, in which protesters demanded the university's disinvestment from Israel over its alleged genocide of Palestinians.” to “The escalation began after a congressional hearing on antisemitism alleged that there was support of “Palestinian Armed Resistance” (Hamas) and harassment against Jewish students at Columbia University and other colleges in response to the Israel-Hamas war. The protest resulted in mass arrests at the Columbia University campus occupation, led by pro-Palestinian and anti-Zionist groups, in which protesters demanded the university's disinvestment from Israel over its alleged genocide of Palestinians.” as that is more in line with the source (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/who-are-some-people-groups-involved-us-college-protests-2024-04-28/). 71.179.129.209 (talk) 01:26, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

You still haven't addressed the issue that the article talks more about CUAD instead of the protest. Also, many protest wikipedia pages usually start with what the protest is about, not an immediate jump into the controversy.

see George_Floyd_protests, they talk about some of the controversy by the third paragraph.

see also Occupy_Wall_Street

I think the only one that jumps directly into the controversy is the Unite the Right, though that protest always billed itself about the antisemitism and most/all sourcing seems to agree it was racist. many sourcing about this protest disagree about antisemitism. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 03:34, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

That source was chosen by whoever originally wrote this Wiki article. A better source could be https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/21/nyregion/columbia-protests-antisemitism.html

The protest itself is inherently controversial and I think the article should clearly state what the controversy is. The Wiki article starts by the arrests at Columbia without saying what they were protesting, i.e. the congressional hearing on antisemitism (which they felt misrepresented their views or overemphasized antisemitic and pro-Hamas incidents) and Israel’s campaign in Gaza in the wake of the October 7 Hamas attack. Without the reader having knowledge of the protests, this article is not informative or self contained. 71.179.129.209 (talk) 04:29, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Columbia’s president just resigned and it explicitly says it here: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/14/us/columbia-president-nemat-shafik-resigns.html

“Columbia’s board had seen her international experience as a source of strength. But the way she approached the protests from their start last fall generated fierce criticism across the campus, and tensions only escalated following her testimony to Congress in April.

When a group of pro-Palestinian students set up an encampment on a college lawn, Dr. Shafik quickly called in the police, leading to more than 100 arrests the next day. Students were outraged, and the episode helped spark a wave of similar encampments at colleges nationwide.”

I believe my proposed edit to include the congressional hearing should be made. 71.179.129.209 (talk) 01:55, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 16:29, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Edan On ... LA County declines to charge man recorded attacking pro-Palestine protesters at UCLA

Edit ...

LA County declines to charge man recorded attacking pro-Palestine protesters at UCLA, refers case to city attorney’s office

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/21/us/edan-on-ucla-palestine-encampment-attack/index.html 76.156.161.247 (talk) 03:06, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

already in 2024_University_of_California,_Los_Angeles_pro-Palestinian_campus_occupation#Legal_proceedings Bluethricecreamman (talk) 03:12, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

More in the Response Section

I am still waiting for my edit requesting the congressional hearing be added, and I think this incident https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/newyork/news/columbia-university-official-nyc-home-vandalized-with-red-paint-nazi-and-hamas-symbols/ should also be added to the response section. 71.179.129.209 (talk) 04:33, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Proposal To Include Congressional Hearing

Proposed Change:

Hello Everyone. I would like to propose the change of “The escalation began after mass arrests at the Columbia University campus occupation, led by anti-Zionist groups, in which protesters demanded the university's disinvestment from Israel over its alleged genocide of Palestinians.” to “The escalation began after a congressional hearing on antisemitism alleged that there was support of “Palestinian Armed Resistance” (Hamas) and harassment against Jewish students at Columbia University and other colleges in response to the Israel-Hamas war. The protest resulted in mass arrests at the Columbia University campus occupation, led by pro-Palestinian and anti-Zionist groups, in which protesters demanded the university's disinvestment from Israel over its alleged genocide of Palestinians.”

Rational:

This better matches the current source (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/who-are-some-people-groups-involved-us-college-protests-2024-04-28/), and matches what I believe is a more appropriate sources (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/21/nyregion/columbia-protests-antisemitism.html and https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/14/us/columbia-president-nemat-shafik-resigns.html). Additionally, the Wiki article starts by the arrests at Columbia without saying what they were protesting, i.e. the congressional hearing on antisemitism (which perhaps they felt misrepresented their views or overemphasized antisemitic and pro-Hamas incidents) and Israel’s campaign in Gaza in the wake of the October 7 Hamas attack. Without the reader already having additional knowledge of the protests, this article is not self contained and does not provide appropriate links to other pertinent articles.

Feedback:

I am open to feedback of how else to include this information, so please let me know if you would like to suggest different phrasing. 71.179.129.209 (talk) 20:47, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Policy changes by institution

This article lists a number of universities and colleges and their new policies banning or restricting encampments and other protests. [5]https://forward.com/news/648549/universities-ban-encampments-add-antisemitism-training-as-students-return-to-campus/ Collegemeltdown2 (talk) 00:38, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

‘It feels like a fortress.’ California students return to college amid tighter security over protests

This article describes the crackdown in California to reduce protests. [6]https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-08-28/college-campuses-open-amid-tighter-security-and-rules-after-spring-protests Collegemeltdown2 (talk) 00:47, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Crackdown at Harvard (Boston Globe)

Do other universities have similar crackdowns? Are the crackdowns coordinated with other schools?

"...“prohibited” acts on university property, including projecting messages onto campus buildings, camping or sleeping outside, erecting temporary structures, and amplifying noise without approval. Students are also not allowed to chalk on Harvard property “without prior written approval,” according to “Campus Use Rules” shared with the community on Aug. 1."[7]https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/08/30/metro/student-protests-college-campuses-antisemitism-pro-palestinian-advocacy/ Collegemeltdown2 (talk) 22:04, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Columbia University Crackdown

An extensive list of the crackdown measures at Columbia University, including changes in due process rules. Are other schools doing the same? [8]https://theintercept.com/2024/08/29/columbia-campus-protests-gaza-subpoena/ Collegemeltdown2 (talk) 22:23, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

University of Florida Crackdown

Students did not receive jail time but were suspended for up to three years and banned from campus. Comments by Philadelphia-based Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE). [9]https://www.wuft.org/public-safety/2024-09-03/two-student-protesters-arrested-at-uf-accept-plea-deals-in-criminal-cases Collegemeltdown2 (talk) 20:24, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Should the page be updated to use the past tense?

Should the majority of the page be updated to use the past tense seeing as the lead now states "The protests largely ended as universities closed for the summer" and no new large-scale protests have occurred since then? BootsED (talk) 04:40, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Most universities haven't been reopened for much more than a week. There are protests still happening and being added. It's still 2024. What's your rush? Kire1975 (talk) 12:17, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Chronicle of Higher Education looked at dozens of schools regarding protest policies that have changed

CHE has reviewed nearly four dozen schools to look at protest policies that have changed. [10]https://www.chronicle.com/article/we-looked-at-dozens-of-colleges-new-protest-policies-heres-what-we-found Collegemeltdown2 (talk) 21:59, 13 September 2024 (UTC)