Talk:2gether (Thai TV series)

Songs by Thai band Scrubb in "Original soundtrack" subsection

Good day! I would like to ask about the inclusion of the list of songs by Thai band Scrubb in the Original soundtrack subsection. Just my opinion, but I think the inclusion of such list is not necessary in the said subsection if the songs are not considered part of the drama's soundtrack songs or if the songs are not part of the drama's original soundtrack album (e.g. 2gether: The Series (Original Soundtrack), if such exists); and information about the Scrubb songs can be included as additional information (e.g. a paragraph to discuss the topic on the use/adaptation of the songs in the drama). I would like to hear your opinions about this. Thank you! —Nairb.Idi9 (talk)

Hi Nairb.Idi9! I'm the one currently working on bringing these Thai articles to English WP aside from contributing several Philippine articles. Re: soundtracks, it does acknowledge these kind of songs but it is not part of the "official" soundtrack. As stated on it's own article:

Popular songs featured in a film or television series are instead highlighted and referenced in the credits, not as part of a "soundtrack".

I can only find a few articles so far on how it can still be presented for example in Slumdog Millionaire: Music from the Motion Picture § Track listing where music included in the film but not part of the soundtrack is indicated as Not in the soundtrack and another example from our very own Ang Probinsyano § Soundtrack where it does include featured songs but distinguishes it from the OST. It can still be included but it should be properly distinguished. That's my take. Reference can also be made using the episodes where it was used or if we're able to find any (Thai) articles about Scrubb music being used. Chiming in here also Pyro_z who's helping me out on this effort. — Emperork (talk) 20:54, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@Emperork: Noted, thanks! —Nairb.Idi9 (talk)

Formatting of Thai drama articles as paralleled to Korean drama articles

@Emperork: Hello again! I would like to discuss about another topic, and I decided it should be placed in another subsection in this talk page. I have been editing a number of articles about South Korean television dramas in recent months, and I observed patterns that the editors of these articles apply in editing and formatting. How about if these forms of style/formatting are applied in articles about Thai television dramas? I have applied them in editing the articles for The Gifted, The Gifted: Graduation, 2gether: The Series, Who Are You and The Shipper. I would like to hear your opinions about this. Thank you! —Nairb.Idi9 (talk)

These are some of the formatting styles from articles about South Korean television dramas that I have applied in editing articles about Thai television dramas:

• Short descriptions: "(year) (nationality) television series" (e.g. 2020 South Korean television series, 2020 Thai television series)
• Genre of the series need not be placed in short description and lead section; they are simply indicated in the infobox.
• Lead section contains: (1) Title of drama (International/English title; local title written in the country's script and romanization, plus its literal meaning if different from international title); (2) Main cast; (3) Short synopsis in one sentence; (4) Director, plus the production company/staff and process; (5) Channels/mediums and broadcast dates and times (in KST for K-drama and ICT for T-drama); (6) Ratings, critical reception, and accolades, if any
• Inclusion of official soundtrack album (tracklist, infobox, album art)
• Ratings and accolades list

Thanks for opening this up Nairb.Idi9. When I started creating 3 Will Be Free, Dark Blue Kiss, One Night Steal, 2gether: The Series and several GMMTV-related television series articles, I was basing it on articles of Secret Seven, U-Prince and Ugly Duckling where it was using the genre on its lead. So I adopted it as well in the short description. I did observe that as well on some Philippine television series articles like On the Wings of Love, Got to Believe, Encantadia (2016), etc. I am fine with putting what is proposed in the lead section. The one helping out with the RTGS is @Prem4826:. Also helping out with the article details is @Pyro z:. If we can get a consensus on this one, then we can apply this moving forward to other Thai television series articles like Great Men Academy, My Ambulance, Hormones: The Series, etc. Pinging also @Paul 012: who is an active contributor to Thai-related articles and just had Bad Genius on a good article status. — Emperork (talk) 22:22, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping. I don't see a problem in applying a consistent form across the range of articles, but I'll note that the suggestion gives quite a bit more detail than stipulated by Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Television; it should still be okay to have slight deviations from this format as long as it complies with the MOS. Looking at some of the articles, the only style choice that I'd question is mentioning the actors' nicknames in brackets. While nicknames are very commonly used in the Thai showbiz, and would be perfectly fine to use on a fansite, I think it would be more appropriate for the encyclopaedic tone of Wikipedia to just use the formal format of given name and surname. (I realise this was previously discussed at Talk:GMMTV. Maybe it would be best to find a more centralised venue for further discussion?) The greatest challenge, though, will be to adequately develop the production and reception sections, since such in-depth coverage can be hard to come by for some productions, and might not have been written up on the Thai Wikipedia, if you're primarily translating from there. I usually rely on a combination of news coverage (secondary sources) and the studio's promotional material (primary sources). The TV specials that some shows have can be very useful (hopefully they'll have subtitles). --Paul_012 (talk) 18:24, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback @Paul 012:! My primary reason on why there was a need to include the artist's nicknames on these kind of articles as discussed in Talk:GMMTV was to help audience outside of Thailand on identifying the said artists. Initially, there might be a confusion as to why they use another name other than their real name or consider it as their screen name. I tried to also check WP:MOSTHAI but I am not able to find any item about nicknames. Maybe yes, we can open this up there to get a more broader consensus? Re: OST album cover as suggested by @Nairb.Idi9:, it's discouraged per MOS:TVPRODUCTION and considered "extraneous" so the track list and other details like artist(s), romanized title and reference should suffice. Waiting also for feedback from @Prem4826: and @Pyro z: — Emperork (talk) 03:32, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Article title

Somehow I just noticed the article title. "2gether: The Series (Thai TV series)" is rather redundant. Normally the subtitle is included to provide precision, but since in this case it's not precise enough, I think we should just drop the subtitle (The Series) and have the article at 2gether (Thai TV series). --Paul_012 (talk) 19:04, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

@Paul 012: The series is marketed by GMMTV as 2gether: The Series, so that should be considered as the series' official title. —Nairb.Idi9 (talk)

Upon starting this article way back December 2019, I did find out that there was also a television series named 2gether: The Series, an American sitcom so I included (Thai TV series) to disambiguate it further. The series, as mentioned by Nairb.Idi9, is also marketed by GMMTV to the international audience with the same name. — Emperork (talk) 05:56, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 June 2020

Please add International Broadcast for Philippines since there will be a Filipino dub version. Thanks. 120.28.239.212 (talk) 01:07, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

@120.28.239.212: Hi! Already added the detail about the international broadcast. Please check: International broadcast. — Emperork (talk) 02:38, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 July 2020

Add release date for kapamilya channel July 27, 2020. 202.62.51.35 (talk) 17:26, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

@202.62.51.35: Hi! Already updated with Kapamilya channel premiere date. Thanks! — Emperork (talk) 19:35, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

References

Requested move 13 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. Yes, there are two Opposes but… the first oppose is contingent on evidence being presented that the proposed title is the “actual” title. But there is no policy basis for “actual” titles. COMMONNAME applies to film articles and this topic, like countless others, has two “actual” common names: a short one and a long one. The second oppose is similar, and is apparently based on a misread of the proposal. Support on the other hand relies on CONCISE and NATURAL, and consistency is implied by the citing of similar situations. While there may not be a local consensus here, the proposal is in line with community consensus as best as I can tell. (non-admin closure) В²C ☎ 07:21, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

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• 2gether: The Series (Thai TV series) → 2gether (Thai TV series)
• 2gether: The Series (American TV series) → 2gether (American TV series)

– The current titles are redundant and fail the conciseness criterion of the WP:Article titles policy. While 2gether: The Series is the officially promoted title for these topics and would have been preferable as WP:NATURALDIS were it unique, they are ambiguous with each other and thus unhelpful for disambiguation purposes. As the titles require parenthetical disambiguation, including the subtitle becomes unnecessary. While the full title with the subtitle might be regarded as the WP:official names of the works, and most some sources do appear to first report it in full (for the Thai series), the short form is also commonly used. Taken together with the other policy considerations, using the short name plus parenthetical disambiguator should be preferred. Paul_012 (talk) 09:21, 13 February 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. ❯❯❯ Raydann^(Talk) 08:58, 20 February 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 16:20, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Oppose until evidence is shown that the proposed title is the actual title. If the name of the TV series is 2gether: The Series then nothing else matters, that is the name and we shouldn't make up "2gether" as the title. The disambiguation then comes as part of WP:NCTV which is required. Gonnym (talk) 15:25, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

• Isn't this simply a matter of a title having a main part and a subtitle, in which case we don't usually include the subtitle? WP:NCTV lists as an example Life on Earth (TV series), which has the full title in the opening listed as Life on Earth: A Natural History by David Attenborough, but the article isn't titled Life on Earth: A Natural History by David Attenborough. In any case, see below for a look at how some secondary sources treat it. --Paul_012 (talk) 17:08, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

  If the title of the TV series is 2gether: The Series we should use that. Shortening it doesn't really save much and it in fact creates a fake title. The disambiguation isn't unnecessary as it isn't part of the title, it's there to disambiguate from the other TV series. This really is a non-issue. Gonnym (talk) 17:13, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

  You didn't address my point. The featured article Greed (game show) isn't at its official full title Greed: The Series, and The Power of Nightmares isn't The Power of Nightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear. The shortened forms are obviously not regarded as "fake" titles; there's no reason to always include the subtitle when it isn't consistently used by reliable sources. --Paul_012 (talk) 14:50, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

  WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Just because some other titles are incorrectly titled, does not mean others need to follow. Gonnym (talk) 14:51, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

  WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is under WP:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions and isn't relevant here. And no, they're not incorrectly titled. They are existing examples of how the article title policy is applied. --Paul_012 (talk) 14:55, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. As the nom itself states, secondary sources use the title 2gether: The Series. 162 etc. (talk) 16:02, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
  • That's not what I said. Both forms are used by secondary sources covering the Thai series (the American sitcom is too old for sources to be conveniently identified). This Time Out article uses 2gether the Series (unseparated by a colon) twice and 2gether once.[1] This Bangkok Post article uses 2gether throughout the text but 2gether The Series in an image caption.[2] This CNN Philippines article uses 2gether: The Series almost throughout except for one instance of 2gether.[3] This Insider article uses 2Gether: The Series once then 2Gether throughout the rest of the text.[4] This Kyodo News article only uses 2gether.[5] The inconsistent usage would suggest to me that both are regarded as acceptable forms of the title. --Paul_012 (talk) 17:08, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
• Weak support: It's a bit irritating to have "series" included twice in these titles. If "TV series" is going to be there, it isn't necessary to also say "The Series". Conciseness is desirable, and subtitles are often omitted in Wikipedia article titles. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 02:20, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
• Comment: I looked a bit more into the MTV series, and it does not appear that "The Series" is consistently included as the series title, not even in old MTV press releases. While some use the full form, e.g. ...the launch of "2gether: The Series,"...[6] and ...and "2gether: The Series" will debut...[7], others simply refer to it as 2gether, even when specifically discussing the series as opposed to the group or the film: The "2gether" TV series...[8], ...episodes of "2gether"...[9]. --Paul_012 (talk) 14:33, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
• Relister comment: Relisting a second time so that the nominator's recent comment can be fully discussed. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 16:20, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.