Talk:Battle of Waliyan

Redirect

I intend to redirect this article to Battle of Parwan. The so-called "Battle of Waliyan" was in fact a minor skirmish, not given significant coverage in reliable sources. Most of the article is a copy-paste from Battle of Parwan's "Background" section, and there are just two sentences on the actual battle, reflecting its lack of coverage in RS. The two sources which discuss the skirmish are Barthold 1968 and Sverdrup 2017: they are nearly identical, as Sverdrup used Barthold as a source; they both take less than two sentences; and both discuss it as a prelude to Parwan.

As that article already discusses this skirmish, we essentially have an unnecessary WP:CFORK here, and per WP:ATD-R, if the redirect is contested, I shall nominate this article at AfD. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:51, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Although sources are few and laconic, it seems to me that this is more than a "skirmish": 1000 Mongols soldiers are said to have been lost.... and the result of the encounter motivated uprisings in Mongol-controlled cities. The timing too seems fairly remote from the Battle of Parwan, as Waliyan occured in spring, whereas Parwan was in autumn. Parwan was actually motivated by the humiliation of Waliyan, which incited Genghis Khan to mobilize a large amount of troops for retribution, so Waliyan was not an insignificant encounter in his mind either: it was a significant and humiliating defeat which deserved a strong response. The location too is fairly distant. Actually, I started this article because the Battle of Waliyan is illustrated in ancient sources (), whereas Parwan is not, and I was wondering what this was refering to. We can trim the article by reducing the background if necessary, but I don't see how the encyclopedia would benefit by deleting it: we're better off by having a map, a description of the encounter, the historical illustration of it, and a summary of what sources have to say about it... पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 13:07, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

That is all original research पाटलिपुत्र; you may also note that Steven Leonard Jacobs, being a non-specialist historian, has misread his cited source (Barthold) in saying that Waliyan motivated uprisings, when in fact Barthold is clearly referring to Parwan. We already have a summary of what sources have to say about it at Battle of Parwan; all they have to say is two sentences and an image, and that is what is there. Do you have any refutation which indicates this article meets the notability guidelines? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:34, 15 February 2024 (UTC)