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Edited "As a Naval Rank"

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I am removing and rewriting the following passage:

The title (originally "master and commander") originated in the 18th century to describe naval lieutenants who commanded smaller (unrated) ships such as ship-sloops or brig-sloops. Officers who held command retained this title only during their period in command of that particular vessel; when they left that vessel, they reverted to their substantive rank of lieutenant. The Royal Navy shortened "master and commander" to just "commander" in 1794, when it became a formal (permanent) rank; however, the term "master and commander" remained (unofficially) in common parlance for several years.

This is not correct, and in fact conflicts with the cited source. The rank this author appears to be describing is the rank of "Lieutenant Commanding," which evolved into the similar but distinct modern rank of "Lieutenant Commander." I will therefore remove all references to the "temporary appointment" and the "return to their substantive rank." This should instead be placed in the wiki article on "Lieutenant Commander." TheSwordandScales (talk) 00:52, 10 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Uncertainty

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The following sentence does not make sense. I am not sure how to correct it: "A Commander in the U.S. Navy commands a Frigate, Destroyer, Submarine or shore installation is second in command to a Captain."

The sentence does make sense, because the style "Captain" may not always correspond to the actual rank of a commanding officer. Thus, the officer in charge of a (say) US fast-attack submarine is usually holding the rank of Commander (equivalent to Lieutenant-Colonel in the Army), but the CO of a (larger) ballistic missile submarine is usually a Captain. Nonetheless, both are, for reasons of custom and courtesy, addressed by their crews as "Captain". Likewise, courtesy is the reason that a Lieutenant Colonel or Lieutenant Commander is usually addressed simply as "Colonel" or "Commander". Christian Rödel

Hornblower

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Horatio Hornblower was not a Commander in Hornblower and the Atropos; he was a full Captain, in command of a large 22-gun Sloop of War which was a (according to Forester/the novels) borderline command between a full captain or a commander.

{{spoiler}}

This could have been easily missed, if reading the books out of order; the distinction is not made clear in Atropos but rather at the end of Hotspur when he is promoted by the retiring Admiral Cornwallis.

Further, he was made a commander twice in Lieutenant Hornblower; initially he was made one by an overseas admiral, which was not confirmed due to the Peace of Amiens, and later made one shortly before the resumption of hostilities.

Way TMI for the main article.

Nkedel 22:50, 21 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Commander only as rank?

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This page seems to talk of a commander only as a rank, and does not talk about commanders in general (as a duty, a person who commands people). Don't know about other armies, but in the Israel Defense Forces, a commander has many distinct features (insignia, duties, etc.), regardless of rank. That is, a corporal who is a commander is very different from one who is not (although all officers are commanders other than some NCOs). If someone can, please write more about the generic term commander. I can probably come up with something next week, but it would be better if someone else with more global military knowledge wrote this. -- Y Ynhockey || Talk Y 21:00, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We already have articles at Commanding Officer and Officer Commanding. I suspect these distinctions between commanders and non-commanders are more down to the fact that Israel has a conscript army than anything else. In Britain, for instance, a corporal is a corporal is a corporal, whether he commands something or not. Same authority, same insignia, same status. I've always seen commander as a fairly informal term without a great deal more to say - it's someone in charge of a unit and that's about it (which is probably why there's not a lot about it in the article already - see the third and fourth paragraphs). But if Israel (and/or other countries) see it differently then it's worth a section. -- Necrothesp 22:49, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Those articles are accurate so far as Australian usage is concerned, but this article is highly misleading. The term commanding officer is jealously guarded... to refer to a platoon commander as commanding officer (although they are both an officer and are in command, at least in a colloquial sense) would be a bit like referring to a captain of the US marines as captain when aboard ship. It is just not thinkable. Andrewa (talk) 20:47, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments about the rank in Sci-Fi worlds

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  • In Battlestar Galatica, while Commander might have been equivilent to Rear-Admiral, in effect, Commander Adama commanded the entire fleet and all of the military, at least in the original series and books based on that series.
  • In Battlestar Galatica, the references to Adama's promotion and his son Lee, apply only to the remake. He had no son by that name in the original. His kids there were Apollo, Zack, and Athena.
  • Most parts of the Star Wars universe had two ranks of Commander. One was the normal naval version of the rank, placed between Lt. Cdr. and Captain. However, in the X-Wing book series, we find out that Commanders outrank Captains in the equivilent of the Air Force and Ground forces of the Republic. Further confusing matters, Commanders can be promoted to General and might be given "Naval" commands like that of a capital ship or even a fleet.

--Will 06:19, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

re: BSG: BSG uses a very different rank scheme, combining army and naval ranks in a single chain of command. Usually Commander would be the equivilant of a Captain today. Thinking that Commander is the same as an Admiral today is dubious reasoning, because he is commanding that fleet only due to extraordinary circumstances. Without the Cylon attack, he'd still command only a single ship. And in the remake Apollo is still in the callsign of Lee Adama. In the old series it was his real name

1. You forgot to sign.
2. Adama did have legitimate command of more than the Galatica. He also commanded all forces attached to it. Since any forces sent to other ships were nominally attached to his ship, he would still command those forces too. In the US Navy, the captain of an aircraft carrier does NOT command any aircraft. In fact, each carrier has THREE captains on board. In addition to the ship captain, the XO and CAG are also captains. Commanding everything including the surrounding fleet would be a rear admiral. So the BSG rank of Commander, even prior to the start of the series, would have to be somewhere between the US Naval ranks of Captian and Rear Admiral.

--Will 18:47, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Naval Captain is equivalent to Infantry Colonel. Tigh is an Colonel, and Adama outranks him. Cain is a Rear Admiral and outranks Adama. This implies that Adama is roughly equivalent to a naval Commodore or Infantry Brigadier.

--99.241.82.164 (talk) 15:56, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Commander in Space Flight

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Mission Specialist links here, I think there needs to be either some info here or a new article. 84.144.37.193 16:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As of December 2016, this comment is obsolete; Mission Specialist is now a stub article. JustinTime55 (talk) 14:23, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Why have the US officer rank table?

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The U.S. commissioned officer ranks table is completely out of place. If we have that here, then why not include the British commissioned officer table? Or the Royal Australian Navy table? Or the Canadian table? The US section is hyperlinked to another article about US commanders. Hence this article doesn't need the table. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The Bryce (talk • contribs) 12:51, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Would make more sense that what is shown currently in this article, which appears to be a British or Commonwealth rank table. At least, the U.S. military is arguably the largest and most important (along with China and Russia perhaps).

Disambiguation

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The top of the page was getting messy, and there are quite a few propertys that use the name Commander, if you fell this was uncalled for, please revert my edit. --Amckern (talk) 05:58, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Have changed it to {{otheruses}} and cleaned up your disambiguation page, too Stephenb (Talk) 09:37, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]


"In fiction"

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I made "In fiction" a section of its own for 2 reasons: 1. To separate it from the real-world non-military uses of "Commander." 2. Much of the fiction that uses "Commander" uses it as a military rank. Examples: Forbidden Planet, Star Trek, Star Wars, and Battlestar Galactica.Wjwtk (talk) 17:10, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Flight Commander

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In the British Navy, 1914-1918, Flight Lieutenants were promoted to Flight Commander. What was their role in the hierarchy? Vernon White . . . Talk 20:49, 1 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

InterWiki

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This is conflict of interwiks. I see two reference to Spanish section, and it is not correct. Please delete one of these. For example, I don't know now, how insert interwiki in russian article. Vladimir-SP (talk) 21:23, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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Myin commander ..

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"Ум зависит не только от роста .. Но и от размера противогаза .. Газы!! )))" 

P.S. "Земля в иллюминаторе!".. 176.59.195.237 (talk) 07:18, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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