Talk:Contrabassoon

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Range

Range on the chart is sounding! And it doesn't say that as in articles about other instruments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.30.231.122 (talk) 07:24, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

all information are copied by the book "The contrabassoon, history and technique" edition Ricordi, Milan —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ulrichteich7 (talk • contribs) 15:55, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

History

All reported information about the history of contrabassoon are from the book “The contrabassoon, history and technique” edition Ricordi, Milan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WellerKontra (talk • contribs) 13:36, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why is there only a citation for the first sentence of this section? The rest of the information is not verified. D.l.bach (talk) 21:14, 25 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi folks, I added a paragraph about Renaissance and early Baroque precursors to the contrabassoon. And later in the history section, I added some Bach and Handel usage examples I thought were significant. The info came from these two books: Kopp, James (2012). The Bassoon. New Haven and London: Yale University Press. pp. 188–191 Langwill, Lyndesay (1975). The Bassoon and Contrabassoon. Great Britain: Ernest Benn Limited. p. 113. ISBN 0 510-36501-9.

Manufactures

All reported information about the manufactures of contrabassoon are from the book “The contrabassoon, history and technique” edition Ricordi, Milan.

Brahms and the contrabassoon

Brahms uses the contra in all but one of his symphonies; in #2 he uses a tuba instead, the only time he did so. I don't know why he made that choice...anybody have an idea? Wspencer11 20:09, 13 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

maybe because the contrabassoon was out of order temporarily and was forced to use a similar instrument

all information are copied by the book "The contrabassoon, history and technique" edition Ricordi, Milan --Ulrichteich7 (talk) 16:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC)ulrichteich7—Preceding unsigned comment added by Ulrichteich7 (talk • contribs) 15:56, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Early contra usage

Bach calls for the contrabassoon in the St. John Passion. Shouldn't that get preference over the Beethoven example? And does it turn up in the original wind-band scoring for Handel's Fireworks Music? --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 16:10, 4 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Beethoven was the first symphonic usage, which I believe is stated. 64.251.50.35 15:37, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The instrument in St.John's is only refered to as bassono grosso. The instrument did not exist in an operable form during Bach's time. Most scholars think that Bach was refering to a larger bassoon, perhaps a third lower than the modern instrument, because there was not a standard size/key at the time. See books on Bach's continuo group.

all information are copied by the book "The contrabassoon, history and technique" edition Ricordi, Milan --Ulrichteich7 (talk) 16:02, 9 September 2009 (UTC)ulrichteich7[reply]

Contrabassoon range?

The range shown seems awfully small. The Bassoon is shown with a 4 and a half octave range, and I know the contrabassoon has a slightly larger range from personal experience. Its not pretty, its not used it any normal music...but neither is the range given for the bassoon. Bassgoonist Talk 15:14, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am not a bassoonist or contrabassoonist, but I note Grove says "from B♭'' (or even A'') upwards to f or even c'." For bassoon Grove says "The standard compass of the present-day bassoon is from B' to f'' or g''." -- Rsholmes 14:54, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the article claims it's the deepest sound available in most orchestras, but just looking at the range graphics shown on the respective pages, the tuba can go down another Fourth, and in reality it still has a bit below that, albeit very out of tune. I guess that's not it's normal range, but professional players could probably successfully cover any contrabassoon part. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.176.36.105 (talk) 04:11, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

all information are copied by the book "The contrabassoon, history and technique" edition Ricordi, Milan --Ulrichteich7 (talk) 16:01, 9 September 2009 (UTC)ulrichteich7[reply]

Tone like a Bassoon?

The tone, even playing the same sounding note, is NOT like that of the bassoon. There is no mistaking it. It's easy to say here it sounds like a bassoon, but use your ears, it doesn't. That's as subtle as saying the cornet sounds like a trumpet. Can someone put a more considered description of the sound. It could be described as a more gentle sound when in its middle register that the bassoon playing its bottom register - sounding the same notes. Help needed from a bassoon/contra player. P0mbal (talk) 16:13, 15 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What we need is a direct comparison: two audio files of the same exerpt, one on each instrument. Speaking of audio files, I don't think the first one ("Uncertainty") provides a clear sample of the contrabassoon sound - it's too cluttered with other instruments. Tayste (edits) 21:30, 15 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Which instrument is the lowest

Just a comment really, since I have played both tuba and contrabassoon. Re the range of the EE♭ tuba: yes the open tuba is shorter than the contrabassoon, but with all three valves down, it is longer, reaching the note A0. Tubas with four valves can go even lower, as can the larger CC and BB♭ tubas. People reading about the contrabassoon may be interested in which instrument can play the lowest note. Note sure how best to present this information and what references would be required. Tayste (edits) 21:24, 24 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Range, Part III

I will be editing the article to clarify the range of the contrabassoon. The existence of a single instrument capable of playing down to Ab0 (written Ab1) is already noted in the "notable contrabassoons" section and including Ab0 in the standard range of the instrument is misleading. (By that standard, we could include low A in the standard range of the alto saxophone as at least one low A alto sax has been built.) Furthermore, the idea that the range should include Ab0 (even as an option) cannot be supported in a single source I have been able to find. Regarding the upper range, I have many contrabassoon and bassoon books and could quote a source for at least 9 possible upper notes. Out of the available options, I will be using D4 (written D5) as it appears in a modern, high-quality, contrabassoon-specific source (Ricordi's "The Contrabassoon: History and Technique") and is the highest note that appears in an orchestral excerpt that appears at least semi-regularly in audition lists (John Adams's Chamber Symphony). For the "safe" range, I will be leaving it as A3 (written A4). A4 appears in several of the oldest pieces in the contrabassoon repertoire (Beethoven 9, Brahms 1) but I do not know what source the original contributor used. MadContrabassoonist (talk) 09:05, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Edits completed. I also edited the infobox so it more closely matches the infoboxes for the bassoon, oboe, and English horn. For the sounding range graphic, I used ledger lines, rather than an 8va sign, as I feel it more visually shows the range. However, I also prepared an 8va graphic should we choose to use it:

Ledger lines
8va sign

Finally, though I don't feel we should expand the "Playing Range" listed in the infobox (the listed range is already rather ambitious for your day-to-day contrabassoon writing), I did add a short sentence explaining that higher notes have been used in concerti. MadContrabassoonist (talk) 11:01, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Petition to remove "Manufacturers" Section

I think we shouldn't include this in the contrabassoon article. I feel that it's almost like an advertisement, and if a company has a Wikipedia page they can advertise the fact they make contras on their own page. Since most of the manufacturers listed don't have a Wikipedia page, I think including information that is 5 years old may not be the most relevant thing for this particular article.

Here is the original list in case anyone wants to add it back, but again as of 2018, no one has updated this list since a book that came out in 2013.

Manufacturers Current As of 2013, there are several firms which manufacture and sell contrabassoons. These include (in alphabetical order):

Amati

Fox

Heckel

Moennig-Adler

Mollenhauer (also manufactures contrabassoons under the Schreiber brand)

Moosmann

Püchner

Historic

These firms once manufactured contrabassoons, but no longer do so.

Lignatone (Czechoslovakia)

Cabart (Paris) Stopped after purchase by Loree in 1974.

Re-include manufacturers section!

I disagree with the removal of the mfgrs section. It is interesting since few firms manufacture this instrument. Also the historic info for firms which did one manufacture is valuable as well. This information is not collected anywhere else online, and wiki is the appropriate place for such information. 2600:1700:22F0:59EF:D0F6:1E6F:2187:515D (talk) 18:22, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Subcontrabassoon

There is a lower variant of the contrabassoon called the "subcontrabassoon". At first, this instrument was only theoretical, but in 2021, a subcontrabassoon was actually built. The subcontrabassoon sounds one octave below a contrabassoon.

[1]

47.12.180.193 (talk) 15:49, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just a quick response to say that it wouldn't be proper for me to add a subcontrabassoon page, or add subcontrabassoon info to the contrabassoon page, since the whole project is my original work and I am undoubtably biased on the matter. I'm not advocating for or against a page, but just pointing out that someone else would need to be the one to actually do it. MadContrabassoonist (talk) 16:45, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]