Talk:Indo-Islamic architecture

Merge with Mughal Architecture

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of the discussion was: no consensus to merge. --Joshua Issac (talk) 15:23, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

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This page individually contains virtually nothing of significance - merge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.245.74.51 (talk) 12:14, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Merge Historicist (talk) 20:39, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Oppose: Mughal architecture is distinct, and merits a separate article -- which could be improved. --Pete Tillman (talk) 15:16, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Oppose: Mughal Empire was one of the dynasties which followed the Indo-Islamic architecture, which found in many other areas, where Muslim rulers reigned, in rest of India, e.g. Deccan. Mughal Architecture is also distinctively known for its inclusion of elements from Rajasthani architecture, like the chhatris, not seen in other Empires who built structures in Indo-Islamic architecture. Hence, merger bad idea! --Ekabhishek (talk) 16:42, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Oppose These are distinct traditions. Fconaway (talk) 02:56, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Which Sharma?

The diffident mention of Sharma is inadequate. Is this Praduman K. Sharma, Indo - Islamic Architecture (Delhi and Agra), Winsome Books India (2005) ISBN : 81-88043-39-7  ? Several Sharmas have written on this subject.Fconaway (talk) 02:56, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Domes and arches ad controversy

The domes and arches were not used in hindu/ indian architecture is not completely true, the domes for earlier mosque such as qutub complex are from the domes of hindu temples, these are all corbelled arches not true arches, but neither are the islamic arches of the qutub complex. The domes were used extensively in hindu architecture where the inner domical ceiling was a prominent feature of not only rajput pre islamic but also many south indian architecture.

The pointed arches of mahabodhi temple occured even before invasion of islam and these arches can still be seen in the myanmar temple architecture which shows that pointed true arches were known and practiced in the indian architecture.

the onion domes and their shapes were also known to indians as can be seen in several buddhist and then chola domical structures in south india which are solid.

The pointed arch was infact invented in the indian sub continent as a lotus shaped arch and was properly reintroduced in india by islamic invasion.

minarets were also used in pre islamic buddhist period and were originally indian stambhas and thus should have been known and practiced in the indian sub continent, it is just that their examples dont survive today, but several minaret motifs can be seem from buddhist motifs in the indian sub continent. The domed temple of buddhism/ hinduism still survive in the 2nd cen AD Gumbatona stupa in swat Pakistan which is infact a true dome.

the article also fails to mentions the amount of hindu/ indegenious indian designs which were imported for indo islamic architecture for example extensive uses of pillars, the jali, the chatri (umbrella), the tappering columns, the floral motifs compared to the geometrical motifs of islamic designs, the finial etc.

i think this info should be included in the article for the readers to better understand and compare the indian and islamic architecture aspects of indo islamic architecture

regards Rameezraja001 (talk) 11:04, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

What the article says (lead) is that the dome and arch "were hardly used in Hindu temple architecture and other native Indian styles", which I think is true. This is the case for them considered as constructional devices. In rock-cut architecture arch and dome shapes can of course be cut out, but in fact these forms are very rarely used in the early rock-cut buildings. That "The pointed arch was infact invented in the indian sub continent as a lotus shaped arch" is not a widely-held view, to put it mildly. The article still needs expansion, and some of the points you mention at the end - which are perhaps mainly true of Mughal architecture and later styles, could well be added. Johnbod (talk) 15:46, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

domes, arches and other major misconceptions of indo islamic architecture

second century mahabodhi arch

indo islamic architecture naturally assumes that domes, arches were missing from indian architecture, it can be argued that it was missing from the remains of the hindu architecture but the domes, arches presence in india cannot be entirely dismissed. domes have been regularly shown to occur during mauryan era reliefs of the buildings. the south indian temples also display presence of solid domes. serated arches can be seen in many brick temples of Punjab in Pakistan, although those arches may have been corbeled, i have an image of a first millennium buddhist temple with true pointed arch. the tilhara monastry, nalanda monastry arch also exhibits prevalence of arches in buddhist architecture of india which has largely disappeared. The pointed arches are also seen in the buddhist temples of myanmar which also resemble the perticular bengali pointed arches in later islamic period, this can be interpreted as later variation of local islamic innovation to bengali architecture or it can be argued as bengali style arch which was already prominent in the east indian architecture, many colonial british archaeologists also point to the presence of arches in west bengal architecture all of which have crumbled. Photograph of a ruined vishnu temple at Deo Baranark, Bihar, taken by Henry Baily Wade Garrick in 1881-82 has visible pointed arch built in the eighth century.

Nalanda arch clearly visible.

mahabodhi pointed arch — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.188.53.210 (talk) 22:51, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi, is that User:115.135.130.182 again? Johnbod (talk) 13:48, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Bengali mosques

@Johnbod:, the Adina Mosque is older than the Eklakhi Mausoleum. The oldest Islamic building in West Bengal is Zafar Khan's Mosque and in Bangladesh is the Kherua Mosque, both of which were built under the Delhi Sultanate. The claim that Eklakhi Mausoleum is the "earliest surviving Islamic building in Bengal" is not correct.

Moreover, Oleg Grabar, Richard Maxwell and Perween Hasan are authoritative sources on the topic of Bengali sultanate-era architecture. Iranica and Banglapedia are also reliable sources.--202.84.46.101 (talk) 05:15, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

The text makes no such claim, and never has: "The Eklakhi Mausoleum at Pandua, Malda or Adina, is often taken to be the earliest surviving Islamic building in Bengal, although there is a small mosque at Molla Simla, Hooghly district, that is probably from 1375, earlier than the mausoleum." But the point was not correctly put, & I have adjusted (per Hasan, as before) to: "...is often taken to be the earliest surviving square single-domed Islamic building in Bengal, the standard form of smaller mosques and mausoleums. But there is a small mosque at Molla Simla..."

Note that the very distinguished Oleg Grabar is not the source you refer to - he was just the editor of the journal for which Perween Hasan wrote a piece. This is typical of the numerous mistakes and issues in the other version. Banglapedia is a useful WP:RS, which I'm now adding from, but Iranica is best used on Iranian matters imo, rather than those of the sub-continent. Johnbod (talk) 16:16, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

How is it that you quote the same text as I did ("earliest surviving Islamic building in Bengal") and then claim that such a text never existed? Your own contradictions, coupled with edit-warring and reverts to inferior quality content, makes me wonder about your good faith towards the topic.

The late Oleg Grabar indeed wrote a commentary on Bengali architecture during the sultanate period. Regarding Iranica (a reliable source produced by the Center for Iranian Studies in Columbia University); it should not be viewed with a regional stereotype. The sub-continent had an highly intertwined history with Iranian culture and hence an Iranica article on Bengal is relevant.--202.84.46.101 (talk) 19:31, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

The article never said what you claimed (and was always referenced to Hasan). Whether or not Oleg Grabar ever "wrote a commentary on Bengali architecture during the sultanate period", that was not the piece used as a reference, which is by Hasan, in a journal Grabar founded and edited - follow your own link: name="Grabar1989">Oleg Grabar (1989). Muqarnas: An Annual on Islamic Art and Architecture. Brill Archive. pp. 58–72. ISBN 978-90-04-09050-7.</. Johnbod (talk) 20:38, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

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