Talk:Iván Noel

Sex abuse allegations

As far as I can tell, given the language barrier, there are many Spanish-language sources that allege that Noel was the subject of claims or criminal charges (some translations say conviction) of sexual abuse. I suspect this was some of the content that was added, perhaps unsourced, to the article in a now-oversighted edit ([1]) on July 20. (That oversight would have been a good call, if the claims were, as I suspect, poorly sourced.)

These seem to be legitimate sources meeting WP:RS; but I am not fluent in Spanish and am reluctant to add material like this depending solely on machine translation. That being said, the claims/charges/convictions are undoubtedly related to his suicide (as with, for example, Mark Salling), and the article should reflect them. If some Spanish-speaking editors would like to have a go at it, here are some sources; you can no doubt find others.

• "El cineasta francés Iván Noel, acusado de abuso sexual, fue encontrado muerto en Argentina" [French filmmaker Iván Noel, accused of sexual abuse, was found dead in Argentina]. RT en Español (in Spanish). July 20, 2021. Retrieved July 23, 2021. (Google translation)

• Periódico, El (July 20, 2021). "Hallado muerto en su casa de Argentina el cineasta francés Iván Noel, acusado de abusos sexuales" [French filmmaker Iván Noel, accused of sexual abuse, found dead in his home in Argentina]. El Periódico (in Spanish). Retrieved July 23, 2021. (Google translation)

• "Quién era Iván Noel, el cineasta franco-argentino acusado de abuso sexual que apareció muerto - LA NACION" [Who was Iván Noel, the French filmmaker accused of sexual abuse who appeared dead]. La Nación (in Spanish). July 20, 2021. Retrieved July 23, 2021. (Google translation)

TJRC (talk) 01:12, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

• On the IP user talk page, the admin assorted the revision deletion with a warning for disruptive editing.

• "as with, for example, Marc Salling"... isn't this original research? Also watch out for false equivalence.

• The first proposed source, whether in Spanish or in English, is blacklisted on WP:RSP.

• The second and third source both claim that he was sentenced in absentia in France for the sexual abuse of a 15-year-old. The second source has the decency to admit that they hadn't verified this info, sourcing it to "medios locales" ["local media"].

• This source contains the verifiable (and verified by me) info of Noel's empty criminal record in France — "extrait de casier judiciaire (bulletin n°3) néant" — as of 16 July 2021: ""Él avisó que no iba a soportar el escrache": la trama detrás de la muerte del cineasta denunciado por abuso de menores en Córdoba" ["He warned that he wasn't going to endure the public demonstration": the framework behind the death of the filmmaker denounced for child abuse in Córdoba]. Infobae (in Spanish). July 20, 2021. Retrieved July 26, 2021.

• On the recent allegations (third source) — "una denuncia que hicieron tres adolescentes de Jesús María en su contra por supuestos abusos sexuales cometidos durante la filmación de la película Cordero de dios, que se rodó entre fines de 2018 y principios de 2019" ["a complaint made against him by three adolescents from Jesús María for alleged sexual abuse committed during the filming of Cordero de Dios, between the end of 2018 and the beginning of 2019"] — "debido a que se trataba de una “sospecha leve”, no se pidió la detención" ["since it was about a "slight suspicion", his arrest was not ordered"].

• The fourth source added above has Noel's lawyer saying that they were ready to present evidence to the prosecutor of threats against the filmmaker ("presentar ante la fiscal pruebas de que el director había sido amenazado por sus denunciantes") by his denouncers, three 14 and 15-year-olds ("tres adolescentes de 14 y 15 años").

• The fourth source has Iván Noel explaining in his farewell vid that he wouldn't stand up to the lynch mob. "Si a través de gente tóxica, del tipo que surfean la ola de la histeria como una ‘cura’ de sus celos y de sus fracasos personales, me retiran o amenazan de retirarme el futuro como yo quiero, pues, es tiempo para mí de bye-bye" ["If through poisonous people—the kind of people who surf these waves of hysteria as a 'cure' for their jealousy, repressions and personal failures—the very future as I want it is taken away or threatened to be taken away, then it's time for me to say goodbye."] He notified the prosecutor and his lawyer that he didn't admit any guilt. "De ninguna forma eso supone cualquier admisión mía de ofensa hacia alguien. Todo lo contrario: yo nunca fui capaz de hacerle daño a la gente y menos a los más vulnerables" ["In no way does that imply any admission of any offence on my part against anyone. On the contrary: I was never capable of hurting people, least of all the most vulnerable."] His lawyer notes: "Él avisó que no iba a soportar el escrache por algo que no hizo y cumplió su promesa" ["He warned that he wasn't going to endure the public demonstration for something that he did not do and he kept his promise"].

Wakari07 (talk) 04:21, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Wakari07. This points up why I didn't want to make such edits relying on a machine translation.

One thing: Original research is not an issue here. I was not suggesting that anything about Salling be added to this article; there's no OR problem in a talk page discussion comparing treatment of potentially similar situations in other articles. TJRC (talk) 16:52, 26 July 2021 (UTC)