Talk:Kahe Te Rau-o-te-rangi

A fact from Kahe Te Rau-o-te-rangi appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 2 June 2021 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Kahe Te Rau-o-te-rangi swam seven miles (11 km) with her child strapped to her back, from Kapiti Island to the New Zealand mainland, to raise the alarm about an impending invasion?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2021/June. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Kahe Te Rau-o-te-rangi.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Vaticidalprophet (talk) 14:04, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that Kahe Te Rau-o-te-rangi swam seven miles with her child strapped to her back, from Kapiti Island to the mainland of New Zealand, to raise the alarm about an impending invasion? Sources: "Kahe became renowned for her seven mile swim from Kāpiti to Te Uruhi on the mainland, with a child, Mākere, strapped to her back, to raise the alarm when Ngāti Toa were attacked by a war party from the south." [1]. "She is famous for her epic 1824 swim from Kāpiti Island to the mainland, with her daughter, Rīpeka, strapped on her back, to warn Ngāti Toa of an impending invasion." [2]

Reviewed: No QPQ required; this is my fifth DYK nomination.
Comment: Grateful for any suggestions for improvement, to the hook or the article.

5x expanded by Chocmilk03 (talk). Self-nominated at 23:03, 18 May 2021 (UTC).[reply]

This article is new enough and long enough. The hook facts are cited inline, the article is neutral, and I detected no copyright issues. No QPQ needed. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:02, 25 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Cwmhiraeth: Thanks very much! Thanks also for catching that grammatical error on my part (face palm!). Cheers, Chocmilk03 (talk) 20:57, 25 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Use of first name

@HTGS: Thanks for your improvements to the article! I used Kahe in my edits rather than Te Rau-o-te-rangi because her DNZB entry uses Kahe, and not being familiar with Māori naming customs of the 19th century and earlier, I wasn't sure if this was preferred. I was similarly unsure when working on the article for Hongi Hika. Changing to using her surname makes sense, consistent with MOS:SURNAME; I'm not suggesting any change back, but simply wanted to clarify why I had taken that approach. Cheers, Chocmilk03 (talk) 22:55, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that, Choc. Sorry if my edit summary was a bit snarky, totally understandable that you would follow the source! — HTGS (talk) 23:13, 27 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

For completeness, I'll also note that I'm looking again at the Book of New Zealand Women (1995), which has a section on Kahe. The book organises its biographies alphabetically by (in most cases) last name. Kahe Te Rau-o-te-rangi is unusual in that her entry is found under 'Kahe', not under her last name. I haven't found any other biographies that are like this, including most biographies of Māori women. I don't know why she is treated differently, but I think that's another reason why I defaulted to Kahe when I was drafting the article (and flag it for future reference, in case someone later down the line has more knowledge in the area). Cheers, Chocmilk03 (talk) 08:03, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Age

At the time of her famous swim across the strait, she had a daughter. Yet the article says she was born circa 1817 and that the swim took place in 1824. The two dates seem to come from different sources. At least one of these dates should be omitted from the article, as it's extremely unlikely that both are true. A. Parrot (talk) 22:47, 29 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@A. Parrot: Thanks, good catch! Hmm. I think the 'c.1817' date for her birth year comes only from the New Zealand Herald article on the State Highway renaming, and the information appears to be sourced in that article from the report of the local working group. I'm not sure I'd count that as a reliable source (although the working group does apparently include a local historian). I've just had another look at the Book of New Zealand Women (1995), which I own in hard copy, and can see it gives her birth year as "?1800", with the entry stating "Kahe was born probably in the early 1800s". I'm therefore inclined to remove the estimated birth year and will do that now.

On the swim, the date comes from this NZ History page and again from the Book of New Zealand Women. The latter states: "In about 1824 a great battle was fought at Waiorua, with tribes from both the north and south participating. The final outcome was to establish Ngati Toa firmly in the south of the North Island. Shortly after the battle, Kahe was warned by her slave that her father's pa near a stream south of Waiorua was to be attacked." It then goes on to tell the story of the swim. I therefore think I am more comfortable leaving in the date of the swim, subject to any better views of course. Cheers, Chocmilk03 (talk) 08:03, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That makes sense to me. Thanks. A. Parrot (talk) 16:31, 30 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]