Talk:Kirsten Dunst

Accolades

Shouldn't there be a section for the accolades Dunst has received? teammathi 19:00, 22 June 2012 (CET)

"Partners"

Not terribly important, but why are the people Dunst has dated listed as her "partners"? Isn't that only married or common-law partners on Wikipedia?Terukiyo (talk) 00:36, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

She's engaged to Plemmons and has a son with him, so he belongs in the infobox. Feel free to remove the rest of them though. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 06:08, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Hi @JDDJS: and @Terukiyo: Template:Infobox person states that the partner parameter is for unmarried, life partners. This appears to be why other BLPs like Lady Gaga and Kristen Stewart do not mention the people that they have been engaged to or dated. Since it looks like Dunst and Plemons consider each other "husband" and "wife", are engaged, have children and have been together for the latter half of a decade, I'm guessing it would be sufficient enough. But I agree that Hedlund and any other boyfriends should be removed. I'm welcome for further discussion to see if Plemmons should be removed as well, if some users may feel that their relationship does not warrant the "unmarried life partners" label. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 15:59, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

I am confused, you argued for inclusion yet have just removed it. Based on sourcing they do seem to cover the unmarried partner status.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(ring-ring) 18:43, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

German?

I see that JDDS has just reverted a comment that Dunst is "American-German" - and the source that corroborates it. The rationale is "as per hidden comment", which says "Do not add German. See MOS:BLPLEAD; also she became a German citizen only recently; has been an American her whole life". The only mention of this is in the archive back in 2015/2016.

The hidden comment is a victim of recentism - implying it might have been last week, when it happened 9 years ago - this is 24% of her life, and nearly a third of her screen credits fall into this time scale. In no way can be this considered a "recent" event - she'll have to reapply for her passport in the next six months... I don't see where BLPLEAD is contravened with this old news? Chaheel Riens (talk) 17:24, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

She doesn't and has never lived in Germany. Citizenship ≠ Nationality. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 18:41, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

So what's your point? You'll have to be more specific than that. She has American and German citizenship, ergo she is American-German - and has been for nearly 10 years. Actually living in a country is not a requirement of citizenship is it?

And you're ignoring the inaccuracy of the hidden comment - which is what you based your reversion on. Why do you feel that her citizenship doesn't warrant a mention? Chaheel Riens (talk) 19:19, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

You're confusing Nationality with Citizenship. Citizenship is a technical legal matter. Nationality is where the person is actually from and lives in. We use Nationality for the lead, not citizenship. For examples, see Angelina Jolie who is only considered American despite also having Cambodian citizenship and Julianne Moore who is only considered American despite also having British citizenship. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 19:38, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

WP:OTHERSTUFF. Where is your policy to say that we don't use citizenship in the lead? BLP:LEAD seems to say otherwise - which is what you're using as inclusion criteria: "...this will be the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident..."' Chaheel Riens (talk) 20:24, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

And all of that applies to America, not Germany. It's been established numerous times that we don't automatically add citizenship to the lead if it's not their nationality. In fact, there hasn't even been an agreement on if just living in a country after being a naturalized citizen is enough to be included in the lead because many people argue that they have to also either specifically self identify as the nationality or multiple sources have to refer to them as being that nationality. Which I doubt that you can find many, if any, reliable sources that refers to Dunst as a German or American-German rather than an American. You're not going to change my mind on this matter. If you really feel passionate about this, I recommend starting an WP:RFC here on the matter. However, unless/until you are able to show consensus has changed since the last time this was discussed (see here), German stays out of the lead. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 20:36, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

With statements such as "You're not going to change my mind on this matter" it seems that you're the passionate one. Given that Dunst clearly wishes to be known as German - why otherwise would she apply for citizenship? - it seems logical that it should be included. As I mentioned before, there is nothing in policy to exclude citizenship, only your interpretation of it. I know of the archive - I mentioned it in my very first post - you were quite vocal there as well. I've requested 3O on this one as it seems to affect only this article and us two editors.

I still maintain as well that the hidden comment is inaccurate, and doesn't represent your arguments. Chaheel Riens (talk) 07:06, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

@Chaheel Riens: @JDDJS:I was stumbling across the third opinion page when I saw this as an active request for third opinion. I left it their incase there is need for another opinion, but from what I understand, She is recognized as an "actress" for her works in American Film. I don't believe she has done much recognized German films. Nationality is defined as "'the country you come from or status of belonging to a particular nation" by dictionary.com. I think it is appropriate to list her as an "American Actress" as she works predominantly in American Films. If you strongly feel the lead should have American-German in it, I would propose rewording it to something to the effect of "is an American actress holding both American and German Citizenship." I will note that her citizenship is already captured on the page so this could be redundant. I think "American actress" is best suited here. Kbhatt22 (talk) 13:02, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi, and thanks for the input. You've brought to light an angle I hadn't considered, and one that JDDJS hasn't qualified either, hence it wasn't brought up here. I agree that Dunst isn't an American-German actress, but my point is that she is an American-German person. It just seems strange that we are fighting tooth and nail to exclude citizenship that she has encouraged - especially when it has been shown (and sourced) that it's been the case for nearly 10 years, 25% of her lifespan, not "recent" as claimed in the hidden text. The lede summarises pertinent points of the article - citizenship seems pertinent to the article subject? I like your suggested alternative, and would support that as alternative. Chaheel Riens (talk) 14:17, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I feel this is something that can lead to mutual consensus so I can take it off the third opinion page. I am technically suppose to take it off after my first comment but didn't know how the neutral middle approach would land. I appreciate the willingness to meet in the middle with the suggested approach above. Lets give @JDDJS: some time to provide feedback. The idea is to be encyclopedic so citizenship is pertinent. This seems mostly a discussion around placement and wording as opposed to inclusion or exclusion. We could make this two sentences but as of right now this is the proposed revision: "Kirsten Caroline Dunst (/ˈkɪərstən/; born April 30, 1982) is an American actress holding both American and German Citizenship." Kbhatt22 (talk) 16:36, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I disagree with listening her German citizenship at all in the lead sentence because of WP:UNDUE. In most interviews she suggests that she only got it to make working in Europe easier. There's no record of her actually living there and since she got in 2011, it's not even really mentioned anymore. The fact that she has German citizenship seems to be a trivia fact rather than important biographical information. We generally do not list other citizenships people happen to have if it's not their nationality in the lead sentence. I would possibly be open to including it further down in the intro. I would not revert the current proposal to mention her German citizenship in the lead since it's right now 2:1 and both of you do make good points even if I don't agree with them. However, if it is added, I will start an RFC about it. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 22:07, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Hey. I came from the third opinion request for comment. I see both sides of the discussion and had proposed a neutral middle ground. Chaheel Reins was ok with the proposed edits that maintain what you were saying about "American Actress" and maintains his citizenship inclusion as well. It is 2:1 so consensus is for the proposed edit, I believe Chaheel Reins can add it and additional feed back would be needed for removal. If he is willing to have it as a second sentence entirely to your point of having it after the first sentence, we can discuss that as well. It would be great if neutral consensus can be reached to satisfy both points. Thanks for being respectful and civil on both sides. Kbhatt22 (talk) 04:53, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Interesting that Wikipedias in other languages always claim the citizenship. An american (world power) point of view? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.195.131.4 (talk) 17:35, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Isn´t she of German Nationality because of her German father and Germany´s Jus Sanguinis principle? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.233.228.117 (talk) 13:44, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Acting debut

Kirsten Dunst didn't make her acting debut in 1993 it was in 1989. Emboh970 (talk) 18:10, 26 February 2023 (UTC)